I will as soon as i lay my cards in front of me
For some reason i'm not as good with theorycrafting an EDH deck the same way as i do with modern decks for instance. I really need to compare card to card and see my sections change.
I might need another way to document my EDH decks as opposed to other constructed formats.
After more testing, I've decided to add both Mikaaeus's in the deck in place of Ezuri, Claw of Progress and Meren of Clan Nel Toth; overall Ezuri and Meren haven't been performing very well because they require too much time to set up and I may not even consistently have the cards needed to set them up. Meren is still pretty good as you can recur a creature back into your hand each turn but you still have to spend mana to cast it next turn which doesn't seem efficient. Mikaeus, the Lunarch is a cheap way to add counters to ALL my creatures and in my opinion a better source of +1/+1 counters than EzurI. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed recurs creatures AND is a source of +1/+1 counters while also threatening an infinite combo with Triskelion and Walking Ballista, which also fit well in the deck already.
I've realized now almost everyone in my playgroup has some kind of infinite combo built all their decks; their decks aren't built completely around a combo but rather it's in there as an alternative win condition, and I think that is important to have in any commander deck.
I thought about suggesting Mikeaeus, the Unhallowed but I felt he might not work all that well. Undying only works if the creature that died has no +1/+1 counters on it. In decks focused on getting counters on all their creatures does that not create too many fail states for him?
For the record I am a fan of some game winning combination. It does help to close out games that might otherwise last way too long.
Yes but the way I see it, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is another way to put +1/+1 counters on your creatures; if you happen to have any creatures that you weren't able to put counters on, Mikaeus can fill in that gap. But the main use for him would still be the infinite damage combo. Even if you completely ignore his Undying ability, he'd still be 5/5 for 6 with Intimidate and an Anthem effect which already isn't too bad. More importantly, the other pieces of the combo, Triskelion and Walking Ballista, already fit well in the deck.
So you have a game-winning two-piece combo; one piece (Triskelion/Ballista) already synergies with the deck and the other being a overall good stuffs card with at least minor synergies. Overall high rewards for little downside risk.
Mikaeus, the Lunarch is a great engine card indeed! A must include in the deck. He was appropriately dubbed "The Pope" in my playgroup and cecame a prime target for removal as soon as people realised how strong the curve of any engine like this into Atraxa is.
For my own deck, i have made some sureshot changes. I am still tweaking and will post my list as soon as we sit down again. For now:
Doubt
Out: Kalonian Hydra - In: Genesis Hydra, I think i'm going to try this guy. but i'm unsure. The scaling of it seems great. Topdecking this too. Casting it for up to 7cmc potentially puts down a <6cmc nonland permanent, of which i have quite a few.
Out: Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker - In: Cyclonic Rift, Rift is awsone but Ishhai and Reyhan could be commanders and would be good together.
Out: Sphere of the Suns - In: Swan Song, I'm at 8 ramp spells after this change, 6 of which are <2cmc. Mana hasn't been a problem, but goldfishing led me to believe i really want that 2mana ramp spell in my opening hand. Might take back Rampant Growth instead. Works better with Bane of Progress too.
I might try to find room for something like Harmonize or Read the Bones. Depending on where in the curve i want this effect.
I like these changes. Having some strong answers is always a good thing.
In the doubt sections I like all those cuts except the Hydra cut. Kalonian Hydra is just so good. I know it dies a lot due to being dangerous, but it can just win the game if it attacks right? On the other hand I do like Genesis Hydra. I just dont know if cutting such a marquee threat for it is a good idea.
Painful Truths is always a good option if you want some card draw. It sees less cards than Read the Bones but it draws more cards. Both are awesome.
Plaxcaster Frogling - I think this card is fine but I just don't like cards that require mana for its main activated ability.
Bane of Progress - this is good if your meta runs a lot of enchanments and artifacts. Otherwise for that mana, I'd prefer the extra utility of Austere Command.
Pact of Negation - This is super risky but really good if you can drop it and close the game out quickly.
Greater Good - I don't like cards that make you sacrifice your own creatures because at that point I think you're becoming an aristocrats deck which is something entirely different.
Swan Song - This is good if you have room for it but I'd make sure to have Stubborn Denial first. You don't want to have too many counterspells because unless you plan to play control which I don't think Atraxa supports.
I like these changes. Having some strong answers is always a good thing.
In the doubt sections I like all those cuts except the Hydra cut. Kalonian Hydra is just so good. I know it dies a lot due to being dangerous, but it can just win the game if it attacks right? On the other hand I do like Genesis Hydra. I just dont know if cutting such a marquee threat for it is a good idea.
Painful Truths is always a good option if you want some card draw. It sees less cards than Read the Bones but it draws more cards. Both are awesome.
I feel the same way about Kalonian Hydra, what would you suggest to cut instead?
Plaxcaster Frogling - I think this card is fine but I just don't like cards that require mana for its main activated ability.
It's the triggered ability which makes this card good. The activated ability is just gravy and imho, the best of the <3cmc graft creatures
Bane of Progress - this is good if your meta runs a lot of enchanments and artifacts. Otherwise for that mana, I'd prefer the extra utility of Austere Command.
Pact of Negation - This is super risky but really good if you can drop it and close the game out quickly.
Cheap counterspell when combo'ing off or on that crucial turn/play. I've had my topdecked Prime Speaker ZeganaAethersnatched. These situations are a total blowout which could otherwise have put me back in the game. Just to name a situation.
Greater Good - I don't like cards that make you sacrifice your own creatures because at that point I think you're becoming an aristocrats deck which is something entirely different.
I'll be using this as an escape or to get value out of creatures that eat a (mass)removalspell. I've had games i really needed the Thopters from Hangarback Walker. The discard three clause isn't as nice though.
Swan Song - This is good if you have room for it but I'd make sure to have Stubborn Denial first. You don't want to have too many counterspells because unless you plan to play control which I don't think Atraxa supports.
Already running Stubborn Denial, Your point of having to much is something i have in mind too.
[/quote]
Those are really strong. Great lategame but very dependent on the yard though. Treasure Cruise is part of the pre-con. I might try it to see if i fill the yard quickly enough to use this when i want/need to. Which in the end will determine its use.
I run Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. I like them both but my deck isn't focused on the graveyard at all. All the cards that end up there are basically fodder for the delve spells.
I disagree with SC1987 about Read the Bones and Painful Truths. They are both good early for hitting land drops and late game they are just cheap enough to allow you to double spell. I admit that TC and DTT are better mid game where they are cheap enough to allow you to find the right threat or answer for the situation. Honestly, I run all three.
In the creature based +1 counter decks I feel you want to start with the synergy based options like Fathom Mage and Prime Speaker Zegana and the work from there.
I would cut Sunscorch Regent for Genesis Hydra. But... idk maybe thats not good. You guys seem to like that card.
Both Read the bones and Treasure Cruise will be tried as card draw spell. Just to see how it works out. It's slight selection vs possible efficiency. Dig Through Time feels somewhat hard if you flip 7 great cards. Also, i've tried to dodge good'ol' Counterspell for its UU cost, Dig Through Time falls in that same category.
I like Sunscorch Regent, this is true. At the very floor, it gains 1 life for 5 mana and it's a big beefy flyer which constantly gains life and keeps growing at the ceiling.
Further research have led me to believe i need to evaluate cards rather different as i do in other constructed formats. So maybe Kalonian Hydra is better as it's ceiling is a potential, albeit situational, game winner.
These changes are an attempt to add more card draw. There is a very fine balance to the amount of ramp and card draw we want. We are also trying to use a certain amount of synergy cards as well. Will and Gambit are both useful in PW focused decks and I've been liking their performance so far.
Stats
Ramp: 11
Card Draw: 11
Interaction: 17
Mass Removal: 5
Counter Enablers: 15
Payof cards (doublers): 9
Token producers: 7
Valuecards, good on their own: 11
Total Counter Synergy: 42
Two (three? ) more swaps i'm thinking about are: Out:Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, In:Nissa, Vital Force
This one seems pretty Obvious, Nissa provides some firepower and recursion, and Sorin provides some tokens but can kill on the spot.
I feel both would profit from Pir, Imaginative Rascal a card which has been on my mind to swap Winding Constrictor for.
Stats
Ramp: 11
Card Draw: 11
Interaction: 17
Mass Removal: 5
Counter Enablers: 15
Payof cards (doublers): 9
Token producers: 7
Valuecards, good on their own: 11
Total Counter Synergy: 42
Two (three? ) more swaps i'm thinking about are: Out:Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, In:Nissa, Vital Force
This one seems pretty Obvious, Nissa provides some firepower and recursion, and Sorin provides some tokens but can kill on the spot.
I feel both would profit from Pir, Imaginative Rascal a card which has been on my mind to swap Winding Constrictor for.
You have very nice card choices overall but I think your mana curve is too high. You'd ideally want the average cmc to be at 3 unless you have a lot of ramp effects. The cards I feel rather strongly against are
Vorel of the Hull Clade - I find this guy to be too much a "win more" card; the fact you need to pay 2 mana and tap him is constraining and taxing.
Corpsejack Menace - I also think this is a "win more" card, considering that most sources of +1/+1 counters come in increments of 1 anyway.
Deathrite Shaman - This just seems like a general good stuffs card and doesn't synergize with most of your deck. Are you just in need of graveyard hate?
Archangel of Thune - This is unreliable if your deck is not built around gaining life.
Dusk//Dawn - This is likely going to hurt you more than anyone else. The Dawn half is great for you but I think there's still much better graveyard recursion out there.
Merciless Eviction - I still think Austere Command is better given the additional utility, but this is fine especially if you need the exile effect.
Thanks for the comments, i agree with most of what you say. While focussed, the deck is still pretty casual, so i don't mind the slightly higher ACMC, which is at 3,5cmc at the moment.
You have very nice card choices overall but I think your mana curve is too high. You'd ideally want the average cmc to be at 3 unless you have a lot of ramp effects. The cards I feel rather strongly against are
This card will be cut if something else comes along that slots in here pretty nicely.
Vorel of the Hull Clade - I find this guy to be too much a "win more" card; the fact you need to pay 2 mana and tap him is constraining and taxing.
I agree. It's pretty slow. What would you run instead?
Corpsejack Menace - I also think this is a "win more" card, considering that most sources of +1/+1 counters come in increments of 1 anyway.
Along with the other similar effects, this completes the "counter doublers" slots. I don't know if i would cut it. Maybe this and Shapers of Nature could be replaced by Pir and Toothy.
Deathrite Shaman - This just seems like a general good stuffs card and doesn't synergize with most of your deck. Are you just in need of graveyard hate?
Exactly. It's a toolbox creature which can ramp, intereact with the yard deal damage and gain some life. This was swapped for Sakura-Tribe Elder in the ramp slot. I want to test it out to see if it has any uses. Fueling the ramp shouldn't be to hard. Though the land card from any other ramp spell is clearly the better option.
Archangel of Thune - This is unreliable if your deck is not built around gaining life.
This is quite frankly, not correct. Archangel of Thune is an engine on its own. Needs no support to be good, from there it only gets better.
Dusk//Dawn - This is likely going to hurt you more than anyone else. The Dawn half is great for you but I think there's still much better graveyard recursion out there.
Any boardwipe would likely goig to hurt us, but i need the effect. All things considered, this is the best one for me since the aftermath half gets back most of my creatures to refuel the hand. Could count this at card draw too. Didn't do that.
Merciless Eviction - I still think Austere Command is better given the additional utility, but this is fine especially if you need the exile effect.
I agree, when i trade one of buy one, this will be replaced with Austere Command.
Funny you mention As Foretold. This is a card i have in my binder and would love to play. I'd be crazy with Atraxa, but i worry this card demands even more card advantage (not mere card draw). When it's online, you'll burn trough your hand twice as fast. Not to mention using instant speed spells on opponents' turns too.
With the nissa emblem, Fertilid becomes an interesting addition. Gives you 2mana card draw as long as you can get basics (i run 7 basics) and Fertilid can be found with Green Sun's Zenith.
I've decided to take a break from As Foretold because, and I'm not sure if it was you or someone else on this thread who mentioned it, it is a horrible top-deck. You really need to have it early to reap any benefits from it and even then it'll take 2-3 additonal turns to set up.
I'm actually going to try out Sunscorch Regent because I've realized that I do need some more lifegain in this deck.
Good point about As Foretold as a topdeck. Not the greatest in the late game.
I do like Nissa, Vital Force. I could try that in the superfriends build as well. I'm also glad to see the Sorin go. He doesn't seem all that good in your deck unless you really want the anthem.
We did a lot of games last friday. Played vs estrid, Urdragon and Sidisi. Got my fair share of wins with the deck. The new additions felt good and didn't really miss anything. Deathrite Shaman got removed on sight so didn't get to use its abilities. But eating removal which otherwise would have gone to my big guys is good enough.
Used Pact of Negation on my opponents game winning play. Was good too, but the best addition has to be Greater Good. Being able to get value out of my dying warriors or just get my islandwalking squids out was very strong!
M.v.p. during two games was Spike Weaver. Just fogging an re-proliferating an incomming zombie horde was game winning. So much value.
One particular play that stood out during the evening, and i was very happy with was: T4 with Winding Constrictor into play, Cast Crystalline Crawler for 4(5 counters) into Atraxa, end turn to proliferate the crawler back to 3. T5 i went Verdurous Gearhulk to distribute enough to get the crawler to 8 into Deepglow Skate from the crawler, doubling all counters into Bane of Progress for the remaining counters. Saccing the empty crawler and all other artifacts and enchantments in the process. By the end of turn 5 i had a huge board from which nobody could recover. Just bonkers and gamebreaking.
It sounds to me as if the tuning has gone well. I love Crystalline Crawler, it is such a powerful mana creature in Atraxa lists. I even run it in superfriends. It is free if you use 4 different mana to cast it and its ramp if you have any counter increasing cards.
Also there's a new card from Commander 18, Ravenous Slime that fits very well with Atraxa. It is graveyard hate and has +1/+1 counter effects. I'm going to play this in place of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet; it's a shame since Kalitas remains my favorite card in Magic but he'll continue to do great things in my Meren deck.
It sounds to me as if the tuning has gone well. I love Crystalline Crawler, it is such a powerful mana creature in Atraxa lists. I even run it in superfriends. It is free if you use 4 different mana to cast it and its ramp if you have any counter increasing cards.
I guess so, things starting to fall in place and i like how this is going. I've discovered i want more and stronger ways to go trough my deck. I don't think more tutors are the answer, but is can certainly see a place for Eladamri's Call or maybe even the new Mausoleum Secrets though that one is very dependent on what your opponents do to you.
Another way will be including more and less fragile repetitive card draw. Inserting a staple like Sylvan Library or introduce some more disruption in the form of Rhystic Study might work out good and make for more/better keepable hands.
Also there's a new card from Commander 18, Ravenous Slime that fits very well with Atraxa. It is graveyard hate and has +1/+1 counter effects. I'm going to play this in place of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet; it's a shame since Kalitas remains my favorite card in Magic but he'll continue to do great things in my Meren deck.
Kalitas is such a great card! IMHO miles ahead of Ravenous Slime. My friend plays this card in Estrid and without proper interaction alongside it, it's just not that good.
I can see why it fits the theme though, And might be better in a superfriends deck, but i'd rather play Scavenging Ooze and Anafenza, the Foremost.
I'm loving the format and the deck so far, and the brewer in me has peaked again.
Let me ask you about your budget. I sort of assumed you were avoiding expensive cards like Demonic Tutor. But both Rhystic Study and Sylvan Library are fairly expensive. If you find yourself really getting into commander I would suggest you go ahead and get certain cards. It isn't impossible to see reprints in a future masters set, but if you look at the price history of cards like Vampiric Tutor and Enlightened Tutor you will see that they rebound fairly well.
I play paper magic exclusively, and own several modern decks so i'm in pretty deep.
Commander has started as a fun alternative for those casual moments we have at the kitchen table. Problem is, we are pretty competitive bit have collectively decided we want to keept decks focussed without being hardcore combo T3 win orriented.
For now let's just say budget is non restrictive as long as i stay within what i find reasonable myself. Though "reasonable" is pretty clouded imho if you play several €1000,- to €1600,- modern decks.
As an example: ABU duals do not fall in that category unfortunately, eventhough i'd love a copy of each. But when found on the cheap side, Rhystic Study and Sylvan Library do.
For some reason i'm not as good with theorycrafting an EDH deck the same way as i do with modern decks for instance. I really need to compare card to card and see my sections change.
I might need another way to document my EDH decks as opposed to other constructed formats.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I've realized now almost everyone in my playgroup has some kind of infinite combo built all their decks; their decks aren't built completely around a combo but rather it's in there as an alternative win condition, and I think that is important to have in any commander deck.
I thought about suggesting Mikeaeus, the Unhallowed but I felt he might not work all that well. Undying only works if the creature that died has no +1/+1 counters on it. In decks focused on getting counters on all their creatures does that not create too many fail states for him?
For the record I am a fan of some game winning combination. It does help to close out games that might otherwise last way too long.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
So you have a game-winning two-piece combo; one piece (Triskelion/Ballista) already synergies with the deck and the other being a overall good stuffs card with at least minor synergies. Overall high rewards for little downside risk.
For my own deck, i have made some sureshot changes. I am still tweaking and will post my list as soon as we sit down again. For now:
Sure
Out: Generous Patron - In: Plaxcaster Frogling
Out: Abzan Falconer - In: Bane of Progress
Out: Altered Ego - In: Glen Elendra Archmage
Out: Inexorable Tide - In: Pact of Negation
Out: Sultai Charm - In: Vindicate
Out: Path of Discovery - In: Greater Good
Doubt
Out: Kalonian Hydra - In: Genesis Hydra, I think i'm going to try this guy. but i'm unsure. The scaling of it seems great. Topdecking this too. Casting it for up to 7cmc potentially puts down a <6cmc nonland permanent, of which i have quite a few.
Out: Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker - In: Cyclonic Rift, Rift is awsone but Ishhai and Reyhan could be commanders and would be good together.
Out: Sphere of the Suns - In: Swan Song, I'm at 8 ramp spells after this change, 6 of which are <2cmc. Mana hasn't been a problem, but goldfishing led me to believe i really want that 2mana ramp spell in my opening hand. Might take back Rampant Growth instead. Works better with Bane of Progress too.
I might try to find room for something like Harmonize or Read the Bones. Depending on where in the curve i want this effect.
Let me know what you think!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
In the doubt sections I like all those cuts except the Hydra cut. Kalonian Hydra is just so good. I know it dies a lot due to being dangerous, but it can just win the game if it attacks right? On the other hand I do like Genesis Hydra. I just dont know if cutting such a marquee threat for it is a good idea.
Painful Truths is always a good option if you want some card draw. It sees less cards than Read the Bones but it draws more cards. Both are awesome.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Bane of Progress - this is good if your meta runs a lot of enchanments and artifacts. Otherwise for that mana, I'd prefer the extra utility of Austere Command.
Pact of Negation - This is super risky but really good if you can drop it and close the game out quickly.
Greater Good - I don't like cards that make you sacrifice your own creatures because at that point I think you're becoming an aristocrats deck which is something entirely different.
Swan Song - This is good if you have room for it but I'd make sure to have Stubborn Denial first. You don't want to have too many counterspells because unless you plan to play control which I don't think Atraxa supports.
Read the Bones - I think this and Painful Truths are both too inefficient for EDH. If you want card draw spells then I think Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time Should be considered first.
I feel the same way about Kalonian Hydra, what would you suggest to cut instead?
Read the Bones, Painful Truths, Harmonize and maybe even Glimmer of Genius in a slight energy themed deck are all great cards that dig deep as efficient as possible.
It's the triggered ability which makes this card good. The activated ability is just gravy and imho, the best of the <3cmc graft creatures
Austere Command is a lovely modular spell. But i would rather swap this for Merciless Eviction
Cheap counterspell when combo'ing off or on that crucial turn/play. I've had my topdecked Prime Speaker Zegana Aethersnatched. These situations are a total blowout which could otherwise have put me back in the game. Just to name a situation.
I'll be using this as an escape or to get value out of creatures that eat a (mass)removalspell. I've had games i really needed the Thopters from Hangarback Walker. The discard three clause isn't as nice though.
Already running Stubborn Denial, Your point of having to much is something i have in mind too.
[/quote]
Those are really strong. Great lategame but very dependent on the yard though. Treasure Cruise is part of the pre-con. I might try it to see if i fill the yard quickly enough to use this when i want/need to. Which in the end will determine its use.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I disagree with SC1987 about Read the Bones and Painful Truths. They are both good early for hitting land drops and late game they are just cheap enough to allow you to double spell. I admit that TC and DTT are better mid game where they are cheap enough to allow you to find the right threat or answer for the situation. Honestly, I run all three.
In the creature based +1 counter decks I feel you want to start with the synergy based options like Fathom Mage and Prime Speaker Zegana and the work from there.
I would cut Sunscorch Regent for Genesis Hydra. But... idk maybe thats not good. You guys seem to like that card.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Dig Through Time feels somewhat hard if you flip 7 great cards. Also, i've tried to dodge good'ol' Counterspell for its UU cost, Dig Through Time falls in that same category.
I like Sunscorch Regent, this is true. At the very floor, it gains 1 life for 5 mana and it's a big beefy flyer which constantly gains life and keeps growing at the ceiling.
Further research have led me to believe i need to evaluate cards rather different as i do in other constructed formats. So maybe Kalonian Hydra is better as it's ceiling is a potential, albeit situational, game winner.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
August 5, 2018:
Removed:
Ajani Steadfast
Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Added:
Tezzeret's Gambit
Will Kenrith
These changes are an attempt to add more card draw. There is a very fine balance to the amount of ramp and card draw we want. We are also trying to use a certain amount of synergy cards as well. Will and Gambit are both useful in PW focused decks and I've been liking their performance so far.
August 31, 2018:
Removed:
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
Added:
Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
This is a very simple change to make. I managed to pick up a Teferi is a trade last night for this deck. He is better than Jace is most situations.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
So, here is the list i will play next time we sit down. Overall it has improved stats in the area of interaction, card draw and value/finishing power.
4 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Land
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Command Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Temple Garden
1 Prairie Stream
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Canopy Vista
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Flooded Grove
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gavony Township
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Walking Ballista
2 Hangarback Walker
2 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
2 Winding Constrictor
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Zameck Guildmage
3 Plaxcaster Frogling
3 Managorger Hydra
3 Chasm Skulker
3 Spike Feeder
3 Champion of Lambholt
3 Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
3 Shapers of Nature
3 Vorel of the Hull Clade
4 Crystalline Crawler
4 Herald of Secret Streams
4 Forgotten Ancient
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Spike Weaver
4 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Corpsejack Menace
4 Fathom Mage
4 Master Biomancer
5 Deepglow Skate
5 Verdurous Gearhulk
5 Kalonian Hydra
5 Ghave, Guru of Spores
5 Archangel of Thune
6 Prime Speaker Zegana
6 Bane of Progress
6 Genesis Hydra
7 Avenger of Zendikar
0 Pact of Negation
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Arcane Denial
3 Inspiring Call
3 Abzan Charm
3 Anguished Unmaking
7 Cyclonic Rift
Sorcery
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Nature's Lore
2 Farseek
2 Rampant Growth
3 Vindicate
3 Read the Bones
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Dusk // Dawn
6 Merciless Eviction
Artifact
1 Sol Ring
2 Fellwar Stone
3 Coalition Relic
3 Astral Cornucopia
Enchantment
1 Hardened Scales
3 Hadana's Climb
4 Greater Good
5 Doubling Season
5 Cathars' Crusade
Planeswalker
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
6 Vraska, Relic Seeker
Stats
Ramp: 11
Card Draw: 11
Interaction: 17
Mass Removal: 5
Counter Enablers: 15
Payof cards (doublers): 9
Token producers: 7
Valuecards, good on their own: 11
Total Counter Synergy: 42
Two (three? ) more swaps i'm thinking about are:
Out: Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, In: Nissa, Vital Force
This one seems pretty Obvious, Nissa provides some firepower and recursion, and Sorin provides some tokens but can kill on the spot.
I feel both would profit from Pir, Imaginative Rascal a card which has been on my mind to swap Winding Constrictor for.
Out: Rampant Growth, In: Sakura-Tribe Elder
The creature drop could be more valuable lategame if i have Cathars' Crusade or another enabler out
Let me know what you think!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
You have very nice card choices overall but I think your mana curve is too high. You'd ideally want the average cmc to be at 3 unless you have a lot of ramp effects. The cards I feel rather strongly against are
Shapers of Nature - I already consider Zameck Guildmage to be a bit too inefficient and this card is even less efficient.
Vorel of the Hull Clade - I find this guy to be too much a "win more" card; the fact you need to pay 2 mana and tap him is constraining and taxing.
Corpsejack Menace - I also think this is a "win more" card, considering that most sources of +1/+1 counters come in increments of 1 anyway.
Deathrite Shaman - This just seems like a general good stuffs card and doesn't synergize with most of your deck. Are you just in need of graveyard hate?
Archangel of Thune - This is unreliable if your deck is not built around gaining life.
Dusk//Dawn - This is likely going to hurt you more than anyone else. The Dawn half is great for you but I think there's still much better graveyard recursion out there.
Merciless Eviction - I still think Austere Command is better given the additional utility, but this is fine especially if you need the exile effect.
This card will be cut if something else comes along that slots in here pretty nicely.
I agree. It's pretty slow. What would you run instead?
Along with the other similar effects, this completes the "counter doublers" slots. I don't know if i would cut it. Maybe this and Shapers of Nature could be replaced by Pir and Toothy.
Exactly. It's a toolbox creature which can ramp, intereact with the yard deal damage and gain some life. This was swapped for Sakura-Tribe Elder in the ramp slot. I want to test it out to see if it has any uses. Fueling the ramp shouldn't be to hard. Though the land card from any other ramp spell is clearly the better option.
This is quite frankly, not correct. Archangel of Thune is an engine on its own. Needs no support to be good, from there it only gets better.
Any boardwipe would likely goig to hurt us, but i need the effect. All things considered, this is the best one for me since the aftermath half gets back most of my creatures to refuel the hand. Could count this at card draw too. Didn't do that.
I agree, when i trade one of buy one, this will be replaced with Austere Command.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I guess you could run Thrummingbird?
Maybe Gyre Sage, but he is weak to the board wipes that seem to be the main issue for this style of deck.
What about Together Forever or As Foretold?
Just brainstorming here...
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I've decided i want to test out a group of three cards.
Out: Shapers of Nature - In: Pir, Imaginative Rascal, 3cmc swap, trade Card draw for payof card (great with PW's)
Out: Corpsejack Menace - In: Toothy, Imaginary Friend, 4cmc swap, trade Payof card for Card draw (great vs. board wipes)
Out: Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - In: Nissa, Vital Force, 4/5cmc, Possible win-con and tokens for recursion and easy to get to emblem. (great with Pir)
With the nissa emblem, Fertilid becomes an interesting addition. Gives you 2mana card draw as long as you can get basics (i run 7 basics) and Fertilid can be found with Green Sun's Zenith.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I'm actually going to try out Sunscorch Regent because I've realized that I do need some more lifegain in this deck.
I do like Nissa, Vital Force. I could try that in the superfriends build as well. I'm also glad to see the Sorin go. He doesn't seem all that good in your deck unless you really want the anthem.
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We'll sit down tonight for some games very curious to see how it all pans out. I plan to playtest several things.
Pact of Negation vs. Swan Song, i'm kinda scared of the negative time-walk Though if i go off, i go off.
Deathrite Shaman vs. Fertilid, Utility vs. late game ramp/pump/draw with Avenger of Zendikar or nissa emblem. seems niche though
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Deathrite Shaman got removed on sight so didn't get to use its abilities. But eating removal which otherwise would have gone to my big guys is good enough.
Used Pact of Negation on my opponents game winning play. Was good too, but the best addition has to be Greater Good. Being able to get value out of my dying warriors or just get my islandwalking squids out was very strong!
M.v.p. during two games was Spike Weaver. Just fogging an re-proliferating an incomming zombie horde was game winning. So much value.
One particular play that stood out during the evening, and i was very happy with was: T4 with Winding Constrictor into play, Cast Crystalline Crawler for 4(5 counters) into Atraxa, end turn to proliferate the crawler back to 3. T5 i went Verdurous Gearhulk to distribute enough to get the crawler to 8 into Deepglow Skate from the crawler, doubling all counters into Bane of Progress for the remaining counters. Saccing the empty crawler and all other artifacts and enchantments in the process. By the end of turn 5 i had a huge board from which nobody could recover. Just bonkers and gamebreaking.
This particular curve made me realise how much better Pir, Imaginative Rascal is in the curve, as opposed to Corpsejack Menace. So that one stays.
I didn't get to play the others i wanted to test unfortunately. But for now, i feel the changes are solid.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
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I guess so, things starting to fall in place and i like how this is going. I've discovered i want more and stronger ways to go trough my deck. I don't think more tutors are the answer, but is can certainly see a place for Eladamri's Call or maybe even the new Mausoleum Secrets though that one is very dependent on what your opponents do to you.
Another way will be including more and less fragile repetitive card draw. Inserting a staple like Sylvan Library or introduce some more disruption in the form of Rhystic Study might work out good and make for more/better keepable hands.
Kalitas is such a great card! IMHO miles ahead of Ravenous Slime. My friend plays this card in Estrid and without proper interaction alongside it, it's just not that good.
I can see why it fits the theme though, And might be better in a superfriends deck, but i'd rather play Scavenging Ooze and Anafenza, the Foremost.
I'm loving the format and the deck so far, and the brewer in me has peaked again.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
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I play paper magic exclusively, and own several modern decks so i'm in pretty deep.
Commander has started as a fun alternative for those casual moments we have at the kitchen table. Problem is, we are pretty competitive bit have collectively decided we want to keept decks focussed without being hardcore combo T3 win orriented.
For now let's just say budget is non restrictive as long as i stay within what i find reasonable myself. Though "reasonable" is pretty clouded imho if you play several €1000,- to €1600,- modern decks.
As an example: ABU duals do not fall in that category unfortunately, eventhough i'd love a copy of each. But when found on the cheap side, Rhystic Study and Sylvan Library do.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -