Grabbing all of those amazing lands is going to be a pain in the ass. I like them anyway because it makes my Matter Reshaper easier to cast. I can then cut down on the basic search if need be and I could even run Tainted Pact as an amazing draw spell.
Something I've been thinking about is by lowering my curve it kind of gets harder to clear out the game. I have less really big guys that can turn sideways, aside from my 'growers' in Taurean Mauler, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born and Carrion Feeder. Yahenni, Undying Partisan could qualify but I have a lot less control over when he gets his +1/+1s. The average Power of my creatures is 2.09, which does grow a lot when Marchesa is constantly putting +1/+1s on my creatures. Facing three opponents, that means my 2 power creatures have to deal 120 damage which is pretty difficult. I want to get rid of a few more cards to add some Counters just so I can attempt to disrupt a Combo player's plan, or just to protect Marchesa.
That's when I stumbled across an Infect build of Marchesa. Your creatures still get +1/+1s, except instead of shooting to do 40 it's only 10. A 1/1 with Dethrone can kill of a player in four Swings unaided. Going with Infect means I can ignore any life gain, just need to deal 10 Poison. The added benefit is that the creatures don't deal damage to the player as Infect replaces the damage as Poison Counters. That means I can keep my opponents on the Throne instead of having to figure out ways to hurt ourselves to be able to still get Dethrone triggers.
So... I'm just toying with the idea right now. Here's the rough draft of what I would probably want to include, though to be honest if it costs more than 3 CMC my interest diminishes severely.
You're running into a conclusion I found when I built my version of the deck.
Trying to play the aggro game and do 120+ points of damage with 2-3 power creatures, even with small buffs on them, feels awful.
Keep in mind however that my standards for efficient combat step usage is VERY biased. I play a deck designed to eat half or more of someone's life total in one attack with haste. With those kind of standards, I could never build this one to remotely match it and feel satisfied, so that's why I took a different approach entirely.
The problem with said approach is that when you don't draw your combo finishers you don't have much pressure to work with.
Try the method out. The disadvantage in size is easily made up for by the fact that your guys basically do wither damage to creatures. However, you will also run into some cross-type incompatibility issues.
Infect vs. non-infect damage. You might end up having creatures where it almost feels unprofitable to attack after the first dethrone trigger because it would be non-impactful to a infect damage plan.
Test to see if it would be a problem. I thought the artifact versus creature sac outlet incompatibilities (for nonartifacts like Marchesa) would be a problem but they haven't been.
I made a bunch of changes but won't update the OP because right now I have to figure out if I should continue with Infect or not. I thought Marchesa faced ate before but adding the Infect package kicked things up to eleven. Also, just the sprinkling of Infectors I have now aren't that great, it's too inconsistent. If I go all-in on Infect I would need to use all of the Infect creatures. This is a feelsbadman.jpg situation because I don't like the idea of running all of these inefficient, *****ty guys even though they need to do far less work than a creature two or three times their size.
But on the other hand, Marchesa would be a deadly force to be reckoned with. I think I would need to add Warstorm Surge for increased inevitability.
I see you removed Sultai Emissary from your list. I just added it to mine, because I wanted to lower my curve and it seemed a nice fit for the deck. It reminds me of Treasure Keeper and Matter Reshaper. I couldn't test it yet but I am excited to do so.
There are other cards in your list like Helm of Possession or Death Render that fit the deck well, but I am always reluctant to cut creatures from the deck.
Your comment made me put Sultai Emissary back in. I want to go wide and with the lowering of my curve, it's quite possible to pay mana costs to 'unmorph' the Manifested card rather than do shenanigans.
I decided to go full bore with the poison changes. I brought Marchesa today and one of my opponents got so frustrated he picked up his deck and threw it across the table when he conceded. So I can't argue against its effectiveness; however, the hate on for Marchesa has grown even moreso. So, not sure if this will be a permanent change.
Since this is a pretty big change I'll just go over generalities. First, I added Swiftfoot Boots to protect Marchesa and two Counters in the form of Swan Song and Arcane Denial. Being able to just say no is important.
I cut the Helm of Possession for Grafted Exoskeleton. Since I don't want to deal 'normal' damage, I don't want to steal normal creatures. Grafted and Helm both function as pseudo-sac outlets but Exoskeleton powers my Grimgrin, Corpse-Born or Marchesa for a big Infector.
I removed the Rishadans since they weren't as effective as they are in my Brago deck. The Grixis Panorama also displeased me and so it was the first land I cut when I got a Mana Confluence.
I cut my Clone package because I needed to make room for Infectors. I had a lot of Clones and while this may be a mistake, the average CMC was 4 which was clunky when trying to put deadly beats onto the table. So, Faerie Artisans also got cut for the same reason, in addition to Sakashima and Clever Impersonator. Dack's Duplicate's Dethrone puts a +1/+1 counter on him which saved him from the axe - this way he can turn into an Infector that grows massive quickly. Swinging at someone as an Unblockable that turns from a 1/1 into a 3/3 and then 5/5 probably kills a player.
The following creatures have Infect, which I think speaks for themselves for their inclusion:
The Flesh-Eater Imp has really impressed me. I just initially added him as a Flyer that has Infect and just happens to be a Sac Outlet. The fact that sac gives him a +1/+1 until end of turn was grossly overlooked. Just sacing a few creatures is enough to deal lethal considering he starts as a 3/3 with a single Dethrone trigger. Thrummingbird proliferates and has Evasion so it goes in. Necroskitter is the other psuedo-Infector with Wither, though the gain control of any creatures that die with a -1/-1 could be handy. I might cut this in favour of a real Infector, such as Phyrexian Crusader or Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon. The Infect package overhaul cost me $10, I'm fine with getting 20 new cards for that amount but I'm a bit stingy on the $5ish Crusader and wildly inconsistent priced Dragon.
The Tainted Strike is a tested out surprise, especially if I have an opponent who swings at someone else with 9 unblocked power, Victimize came out for it as a non-creature cut. Warstorm Surge is to help me recycle my Infectors and deal Poisonous damage.
With the goal of cutting my curve down, I needed to make big cuts as the aforementioned clones. This meant that I decided to cut 4 drops over 3. With the goal of eliminating 4 drops, I couldn't keep Gray Merchant - though I do miss his little life boosts in the middle of games. Aura Thief and Agent of Erebos are 'meta calls' of established board states - I hope to Infect those people now and so I cut them. Gonti is very cute but I never really hit jackpot with him, and I'm looking for basic, low cost instants.
With the massive cut of 4 drops, I got rid of the Toolbox Fleshwrither. Some could argue that with the diminished 4 drops it's even more important to be able to tutor but I am not that man. In essense, he's a '7 drop' or wait a turn to try to abuse a Dethrone trigger which usually resulted in a block and trade to keep him off of the Sorcery speed Transfigure. Marton Stromgald was probably the most painful 4 drop as he could make my group into a massive army for the kill; however, his lack of utility past massive attacks is a reason to skip. If I wanted to reinstate a 4 drop, he's at the head of the list.
Out of the three drops, the Taurean Mauler was just a big dumb beater which went against the strategy of keeping people on the Throne with only Infect damage. That also meant that the Flamespeaker's big gains were also hampering. Thada Adel's ability to grab me Sol Rings was iffy - I rather go with someone on strategy than not. Drana is a card that's great if you're ahead and not if you're behind, I need threats at all stages so I cut her. Sin Prodder draws me cards, in theory, but he also pushes people off of the Throne as they intentionally take damage. I do want more card draw in Marchesa now as I seem to run out of gas without all of these utility creatures, but that's a new problem.
Grenzo was cut, which was a painful decision due to his low mana cost, but the decision was based on keeping people on Thrones. I don't want them to start attacking each other, making me sit on the throne and try to swing past with Infect. I also wouldn't really abuse his Exile triggers as I don't want other people's creatures.
With the smallish creatures needing to sneak in hits while people don't have their guard up, my desire for Haste has increased. I think I'll need to hunt down an Anger now. Another curious selection I saw in a Marchesa list posted on Reddit was Lightning Mauler.
The great poison experiment has been concluded and I realize I didn't enjoy playing essentially a massive tempo deck in a Multiplayer Pod that goes from 3 to 6 players. Trying to aggro down an entire table when my dorks are 2/2s that everyone deathly fears on top of a Commander that gets focused all the time wasn't pleasant. I am going back to the midrange archetype but adding more control elements so that I can compete with better aggro decks, but also put in deadlier creatures to fight against control players. Right now I would say that the deck's biggest struggle is consistent mana, so acquiring those filter lands are going to be a top priority. Here are the changes:
One of the successes of a midrange deck is making sure your guys are big, this way you can out muscle Control and hope to trade blows with Aggro's big beasts. This made me keep Thrummingbird. I got the idea when I was playing a 5 player game and another player was also playing Marchesa. I was going to get eliminated because of a feud I picked with another player, so I made sure to my Thrummingbird Proliferate his Marchesa guys and they got pretty big. Getting a +1/+1 on Attack and Damage grows even 1/1s, which the Thrummingbird's Evasion makes for a good attacker.
Again, as this is a massive overhaul, I'll just go into generalities. I first cut every single Infect creature as that was no longer part of the package. I thought for a moment or two to keep the Grafted Exoskeleton but I don't think I would have liked it. It's a lot of mana that will invoke more predejuice than Marchesa can already handle. With that cut, I also decided against Tainted Strike even if it had a 'surprise mothertrucker' element to it. Lastly, the decision to cut Puppeteer Clique was after placing a few more 5 and 6 drops, I didn't like it's kind of unreliable nature. Faerie Artisans do something similar, do so at one mana less and only at one blue instead of hoping for double black. If I don't have a sac outlet, then I still have a body that sticks around with the Artisans while I need to have a sac outlet and attack on my own turn to keep the creature. It really was between Artisans or Clever Impersonator but I went with Artisans because I can clone all sorts of things, keep them if I can sac my Faeries and I have two bodies that benefit from Dethrone triggers to maximize my damage. Faeries also fly, so that's evasion to score hits in while a Clone might get stuck in a ground war.
I really liked the Flesh-Eater Imp, so I wanted another sac outlet. Cheap or free is required in Marchesa, so I got Attrition which has a worthwhile effect at getting rid of blockers for Marchesa's men to get in there. Other noncreature shoe ins were Phyrexian Reclamation as a way to get back my creatures, lower my life total for Dethrone and as a way to navigate accidental hate of Mimic Vat and the like. I've realized I need some card draw to keep up with my opponents, so I put a Wheel of Fortune in as a way to draw myself out of crap hands and to maybe dump creatures in the 'yard for a future Living Death. Chaos Warp was random removal I found and Helm of Possession is making it's way back into the deck but I'm not sure if I'll really benefit from it.
For my heavy hitters, I put back Scourge of the Throne back in. Combined with Thrummingbird's Proliferate this could get out of hand for my opponents. I also decided to leave Warstorm Surge in the deck so I can still dome opponents whose life total is low and who I wouldn't be able to farm for Dethrone Triggers. After seeing the success of a Whip of Erebos is another Marchesa deck (There are 3 including mine in the meta), I wanted more life gain as there's a point where your life total might be too low and so Grey Merchant of Asphodel came back in. The big dumb cow and its weird Creature Type synergies returns with Taurean Mauler. Márton Stromgald, the Red Craterhoof Behemoth, makes a return so my guys can seriously wreck someone's face. Lastly, I put the Prophetic Flamespeaker back due to my goal of getting more +1/+1 counters, as that makes him hit harder but also my goal of drawing more cards. This is also why I put Drana back in the deck; the damage output gets absurd with a Flamespeaker, a Thrummingbird and her.
I cut Grenzo as his utility wasn't that great. I now have other things to do with my mana, like re-equipping, activating Attrition and the like. Also, there's a lot of Scry in the deck. What happens to undesirable cards? They go to the bottom, which then Grenzo needs to dig through. Instead, I rather have utility like Sin Prodder - draws me, Menaces to get hits in and sometimes does damage (though more likely mill off lands). I'm not too pleased with Fleshwrither, as it's seven mana that I can't use to tutor for a win con aside from Murderous Redcap. The attacking and then popping is unreliable as people are willing to trade. With my goal of increased aggression, I have less four drops than the standard list which has been paying incredible dividends with Matter Reshaper and Treasure Keeper. Aura Thief is a meta call that sometimes completely screws over my opponent's strategies and other times just nabs me a useful Enchantment, though I am in love of stealing Sylvan Library - draw cards which I need and lowers my life as well.
Lastly, I know the power of Clones but I decided to only include the best one - Sakashima lets me choose to double up on Marchesa if nothing else is appetizing. I thought Marchesa abused Clones until I played my Brago, King Eternal deck. Now I'm less impressed in Marchesa but doubling my Commander is worth it. If I get my hands on the 2 mana Clone, that's aggressive enough.
I'm pretty happy with the deck when it works right now. The main problem is I'm having a lot more mana problems with my aggressive early game shift. Need better lands. I know the solution is pay money dollars for the good lands but ****, it's aggravating that the best solution is probably drop $60 on unsexy lands.
Warstorm Surge and Fleshwrither were just too expensive. Surge isn't a body which matters in an aggro deck. With Fleshwrither, I would either play him to pop for a Murderous Redcap for a win if I had Mikaeus, the Unhallowed/Metallic Mimic or Glen Elendra Archmage for Control. The other option is to wait, try to attack and get a Transfigure with a +1/+1 counter. That worked once or twice but then people learned to trade with the 4/4. It was just too unreliable and costly.
The main problem I had was finishing players when I am unable to get +1/+1s because I am at the highest life and running out of gas. The River Kelpie and Wight should solve this problem. I noticed a lot of the games I won was when one of my scalers got out of control and players had to deal with them, but they just kept coming back. Wight is low cost, which means it can hit the board pre-Marchesa or be a nice quick drop. If my opponents each only have 2 creatures in their yards in 4 man pod, Wight is a 7/7 which I think is a more than generous assumption. Unlike my other scalers, I don't have to regrow him everytime he gets Wrathed away which is nice though he doesn't have the ability to scale indefinitely. As for the Kelpie, a lot of my stuff dies and returns which should draw me enough cards to get to my next Card Advantage engine by the time they answer it.
Helm of Possession was effectively a six drop which the deck couldn't afford, there are times when I'm stuck on five mana if I want to curve out optimally. Originally, I did have a 'steal yo *****' theme but that was discarded in favour of a midrange strategy. After that, it got harder to justify a six mana expenditure that is off-strategy. Aetherworks Marvel is definitely on strategy and allows me to cast anything, which could include a counterspell if I'm really lucky. Otherwise, just managing my +1/+1 shenanigans nets me additional value. The lack of a mana cost on the activation is nice, even if I lose a sac outlet in Helm. On the other hand, the Marvel lets me get around the more expensive cards.
I am cutting Bad River due to it being a ETBT land, even if it fetches any land I want. I cut this over Basics because I'm currently dangerously low and thus inconsistent with my check and tango lands. The options of improving this is more Shocklands (ha!) or ABUR Duals (HA!). Fetches count as well, I guess. It's a problem of trying to keep my landbase as 3 color friendly as possible while trying to use as few ETBT lands or ETBT conditionals. I chose the Tarnished Citadel because it lowers my life to gain Dethrone triggers, I'll have to see if this is too deadly but I think it's fine due to hitting any color, being colorless for my Matter Reshaper and letting the Dethrone flow freely. There have been a few awkward games where I was sitting at 40 with the rest of the pod being in the 20s and I had no pain sources in sight. Upping that count.
So far, I am toying with the idea of adding Kokusho, the Evening Star just as additional drain on the table. It's to cushion my life total. Another card I am considering is Notion Thief. It's easier on my curve, denies my opponents their extra draws and keeps my aggro fueled up. The fact that it is a 3/1 isn't bad in the turn sideways department, Flash is good too though I'm uncertain on how I'll exactly take advantage of that with Marchesa. The creature I'm thinking of removing is Scourge of the Throne. It's an expensive win-more. Otherwise, the deck works wonderfully barring adding $20+ cards, such as Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for defense or Sygg, River Cutthroat for additional, cheap draw. Plus all of the mana fixing lands like Fetches or Filters.
I actually want to try running Marvel myself, although with the way my deck works I'm confident that with any kind of decent setup I can get the six energy I need every turn cycle. I honestly don't expect it to be a keeper because I generally have crazier ways of generating advantage in the deck. Test to see if marvel requires too much setup or not.
I also haven't played for like four weeks, but upon returning I saw artifact removal go towards a turn 1 Arcbound Worker rather than a turn 3 Thran Dynamo. The crazy thing is that based on what I had in my hand and the player's suspicions, that move was actually correct!
Yeah, Marchesa is pretty unintuitive unless it's kill her.
I'm thinking of making big changes to Marchesa but I'll keep them out until I see more of what Amonkhet brings. It's Nicol Bolas' Plane, he's Grixis colours and so I hope he'll bring some love to this Shard.
The theory here is that the Garrison will do far more damage than the Scourge in the same timeframe. That is, it's easier to get the Garrison into play and swinging, pooping out 1/1s. These 1/1s can be thrown into Skullclamp for more draw, Attrition to take apart our opponents' creatures and Ashnod's Altar for more mana. More importantly, I've found that going wide is really good in Marchesa as the early +1/+1s on a large force gives so much punch. It's also possible to Meld into Hanweir, the Writhing Township but I don't think that'll happen too often. About as often as Westvale Abbey; luckily, the Garrison feeds into the Abbey's needs. I've been toying with the idea of using Breath of Fury, the Garrison would effectively let me attack infinitely. I'll want to be impressed with the Garrison before I include Breathe of Fury.
As for the Battlements, I didn't want to cut any untapped land. My mana base is currently not the most reliable, so while the Flamekin Village is the obvious analogue I don't want to get rid of the single Red source. When measured against making Haste vs another ETBT Land, I decided the Scry 1 was the weakest. While cutting the Scourge reduces my Red sources, I found that I have more R/B Duals than B/U or U/R so that's why I went with that cut. Unfortunately, the solution for my mana base problems is to just dump a lot of money into it.
The Amonkhet update is small and with the theme of -1/-1, I don't expect much for Hour of Devastation due to Marchesa wanting +1/+1s. Combat Celebrant makes my army grow faster and also hit into players harder. I'm toying with adding Conscripts and Kiki-Jiki for another Infinite out. The Faerie Artisans were unreliable and while I liked the evasion, it made me choose casting other things over them. Also, the Celebrant lowers my average CMC which as aggro I'm always striving for.
That card threatens quite a bit of damage in very short order. In a deck like this where it is hard to kill, that's going to accelerate your clock by a considerable amount. Also being able to sacrifice it to reset its exert for the next turn gives you a lot of extra value from the card.
I got a little testing done with Combat Celebrant in Xenagod, and it does work. Even when no one else is around, it hits for 24 by itself!
I can foresee myself cutting artisans at some point in my Marchesa build myself. It merely depends upon what I need for the deck.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find my copy of Zealous Conscripts so I'll either need to scrounge it up or fork out for a new one. With Combat Celebrant, I'd like another combo out and that would be Kiki-Jiki. With his inclusion, I might add other 'I never attack but I'm damn sweet' utility creatures like Hell's Caretaker. Perhaps I should also add Phyrexian Delver to Raise all of these dead creatures, as well as lowering my life for Dethroning.
This then makes me want to shift to other cards that will gain me life, like Whip of Erebos, as things keep costing mana. The problem then becomes: I'm pushing my curve up again. I'm not sure if that's really a problem, but it was nice playing out a bunch of creatures that just kept giving me value.
I run a very similar list to yours and I'd say Whip of Erebos is a great inclusion. If you've got ways to manipulate your life total, Unspeakable Symbol being the most ideal, the Whip makes it possible to make your creatures quite massive while simply recouping the lost life through combat. The ability to recur a relevant creature from the GY should you need it also isn't irrelevant. I played a game recently where my opponent Wheel'd with Jace's Archivist and dumped Scourge of the Throne in my GY, the Whip allowed me to bring it back while I had Unspeakable Symbol out and take out the remaining two opponents with the two combat steps. Whip is a synergistic card in this build in general I think.
I'd also recommend trying out Perplex if you can find a cut for it, it's a fair soft counter in certain contexts but most of all you can Transmute it to find Unspeakable Symbol or any other 3CMC card you may require, but mostly it's just a second copy of Unspeakable Symbol.
Living Death very rarely did work in Marchesa. In my Mid-Range build, a lot of my creatures aren't that impressive to outmuscle a suddenly ballooned board. I've also combo'd out on opposing Living Deaths and my opponents have done the same with me due to stacking priorities. Perhaps it'll find its way back into the build if I add a few more combos that involve getting two creatures into play to win, usually with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. The thing is, Whip's Activated ability lets me do that. If I'm unable to burn through my life total I have the bad problem of being healthy. There's just been too many games where I got killed because my life total was too low while I kept digging for Gray Merchant of Asphodel or feed a big guy to Miren, the Moaning Well. Also, with my current toying with throwing in two other 5 drops is making me want to shave as much CMC as possible from Marchesa.
Living Death is one of those cards that is either the most amazing card for the current boardstate or it is absolutely useless.
If other people are abusing graveyard strategies it becomes far less appealing of a card.
In my build I use Scrap Mastery instead because the card is much more one-sided and achieves pretty much the same goal.
Lastly, I'm also making a controversial cut. I'm cutting Flayer of the Hatebound, but mainly because I don't have enough infinite sac outlets for creatures (I have infinite outlets for artifacts and creatures) so it was never an appealing card for me to play. Plus, my opponents are way more scared of Marionette Master and that card kills significantly faster in my build. Point is, don't be afraid to make these controversial cuts if they don't actually work, and I'm glad you are doing this.
I'm sure you'll get really good use out of Whip, Tev. Because the deck is generally really abusive of its own life total having ways to not die to another opponent doing something crazy (Got Comet Storm'd to death for 22 by a Mizzix deck recently on T6 after having Phantasmal Image copy my Pain Seer -_-) having ways to stabilize your own life total is really crucial. Whip is also 4CMC so much easier to dig for consistently, and the synergy with Whip + Unspeakable Symbol is fantastic. I'd also agree on Living Death, because most Marchesa builds tend to be low to the ground and relatively fast (in EDH terms at least) we're never going to have stacked Graveyard's like a Meren/Karador type list where Living Death probably gets like 8-12 targets on average, so I think it's a good cut.
Something I've realized with the Marchesa deck is every card really, really needs to pull its weight, establishing advantage early in the game is crucial so sitting with a hand of 5/6 drops that are too situational or not impactful enough is a bit of a death sentence, so like Plush says if a cut seems controversial but you've noticed how it's a dead card too often it's definitely the right call, I'm kind of in that situation with River Kelpie. On paper (excuse the pun) it seems amazing, but its cost is generally too high and I think our card advantage engines need to be at much lower CMC, things like Grim Haruspex/Pain Seer/Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena are more where we want to be.
I'm on the same page about Flayer I think, I've never cast it and gained huge advantage from it within the first two turns of it being down. When you're behind it's doing nothing to catch you up, and if you're ahead it's too win-more. Instant impact really seems crucial for this deck to maintain its tempo.
Also, as an aside, how has everyone been finding Combat Celebrant? I've been super impressed, I run Lightning Mauler as an early haste enabler and it's amazing how quickly the deck can rack up damage early in the game with Celebrant and a couple of other higher power creatures.
How is thrumming bird and wight of precinct six working for you? I realize it's probably an effort to lower the curve, but it seems like there's better options.
Also curious to hear your experience with Aetherworks Marvel.
Living Death is one of those cards that is either the most amazing card for the current boardstate or it is absolutely useless.
If other people are abusing graveyard strategies it becomes far less appealing of a card.
In my build I use Scrap Mastery instead because the card is much more one-sided and achieves pretty much the same goal.
Lastly, I'm also making a controversial cut. I'm cutting Flayer of the Hatebound, but mainly because I don't have enough infinite sac outlets for creatures (I have infinite outlets for artifacts and creatures) so it was never an appealing card for me to play. Plus, my opponents are way more scared of Marionette Master and that card kills significantly faster in my build. Point is, don't be afraid to make these controversial cuts if they don't actually work, and I'm glad you are doing this.
Yeah, that's actually a great summary of Living Death either useless or the best. I want to reduce variance, so even though Living Death has the opportunity to win me the game on the spot, I'm cutting it. Though the amount of times I've won because my opponent cast a Living Death is pretty high - my triggers would resolve before theirs and I would go Infinite. I've only had someone win once off of my Living Death, but otherwise it hasn't been cast and just sat in my hand. Graveyard strategies are pretty big in my meta.
I'm sure you'll get really good use out of Whip, Tev. Because the deck is generally really abusive of its own life total having ways to not die to another opponent doing something crazy (Got Comet Storm'd to death for 22 by a Mizzix deck recently on T6 after having Phantasmal Image copy my Pain Seer -_-) having ways to stabilize your own life total is really crucial. Whip is also 4CMC so much easier to dig for consistently, and the synergy with Whip + Unspeakable Symbol is fantastic. I'd also agree on Living Death, because most Marchesa builds tend to be low to the ground and relatively fast (in EDH terms at least) we're never going to have stacked Graveyard's like a Meren/Karador type list where Living Death probably gets like 8-12 targets on average, so I think it's a good cut.
Something I've realized with the Marchesa deck is every card really, really needs to pull its weight, establishing advantage early in the game is crucial so sitting with a hand of 5/6 drops that are too situational or not impactful enough is a bit of a death sentence, so like Plush says if a cut seems controversial but you've noticed how it's a dead card too often it's definitely the right call, I'm kind of in that situation with River Kelpie. On paper (excuse the pun) it seems amazing, but its cost is generally too high and I think our card advantage engines need to be at much lower CMC, things like Grim Haruspex/Pain Seer/Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena are more where we want to be.
I'm on the same page about Flayer I think, I've never cast it and gained huge advantage from it within the first two turns of it being down. When you're behind it's doing nothing to catch you up, and if you're ahead it's too win-more. Instant impact really seems crucial for this deck to maintain its tempo.
Also, as an aside, how has everyone been finding Combat Celebrant? I've been super impressed, I run Lightning Mauler as an early haste enabler and it's amazing how quickly the deck can rack up damage early in the game with Celebrant and a couple of other higher power creatures.
I'm fond of River Kelpie because I need a lot of gas to keep up with some decks and the Kelpie is a fairly easy to abuse draw engine. Perhaps if I forked out the $40+ for Dark Confidant I could cut the Kelpie but right now I can't. I also found Pain Seer to be lacklustre because his death would mean I don't draw a card as he comes back untapped. Perhaps I should just invest in a Sygg, River Cutthroat.
I still like the Flayer as well, just because the amount of times he's killed someone before they would've killed me. Usually, I realize someone is going to come after me and at the end of the 2nd main of my opponent, I sac a bunch of things and dome the threatening player. Hell, sometimes I just do it to kill them if they weren't that big of a threat so I can get back to my turn. I don't see it as a win-more yet, it's just something that gets the job done at 6 CMC, which is only shared by Mikeaeus, the Unhallowed and Deathrender (with the 2 Equip cost). If I add the two more 5 CMCs (Phyrexian Delver and Zealous Conscripts), I might get a different opinion.
I haven't resolved Combat Celebrant yet. Though he made me add Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker for an Infinite Win. The one time I had the chance to play it and didn't was because an opponent had a Propaganda and I can't just Infinite into his face. If I waited a turn instead of pitching him due having more than 7 cards in hand from my Necropotence, I would've won because someone blew up all the Enchantments on the field. So, missing out on an instant win due my error is still damned high praise. I'll have to play more games and get a chance to cast him and swing before I say anything (I had one other game where he got Countered). For 3 mana, a 'must counter/kill' for my opponents is damned good.
How is thrumming bird and wight of precinct six working for you? I realize it's probably an effort to lower the curve, but it seems like there's better options.
Also curious to hear your experience with Aetherworks Marvel.
Don't underestimate Wight of Precinct Six, that's 7+ power on average for 2 mana. Sure, Yahenni, Undying Partisan and Grimgrin, Corpse-Born get a lot of respect because of how big they can grow (along with maybe Taurean Mauler) but the Wight is immediately sizeable. He can get fed into Miren, the Moaning Well for great effect but also because he's not a grower, he can easily get sacrificed and come back without losing any power to all the other sac outlets in Marchesa.
Marchesa also plays fast, so Thrummingbird does a lot of work. It, along with Hanweir Garrison, do a deceptive amount of damage. Alone, the bird goes from a 1/1 to a 3/3 after the first Dethrone, then a 5/5 and then 7/7. Meanwhile, it is also growing a lot of my other creatures as well. With flying, it also gets in quickly with a bit of evasion. Perhaps it is a card that is good while you're even or ahead, but it puts rocketshoes on your creatures while doing that. And if you're behind, it's a 1/1 Flyer - that chumps a lot of dangerous things, which could give you enough time to have your ground force retaliate.
Aetherworks Marvel has been great. It is easy in Marchesa to get 6 permanents dying at the end of each rotation, especially if you have some sort of +1/+1 giver (Oona's Blackguard, Metallic Mimic, Sage of Fables) with a creature that benefits from that and a sac outlet. It gives you an extra card played and that is good; plus the added value of repeatedly sacrificing something that gives you benefits (Matter Reshaper/Treasure Keeper) to something that really likes eating your own creatures (Grimgin, Carrion Feeder). Marchesa, at her heart, is a tempo deck because you need to kill the table with your unwrathable army before they get outsized. I'm finding that I'm slowly getting outsized or hated out as the meta shifts to deal with her - hence my decision to add more combo which the Marvel helps to dig for. Also, since it is a cast, I can try to get lucky and use Counterspells if someone is going to do something devastating.
Good to hear that you're getting good results out of Marvel. I found a slot for it and I haven't completed testing on it yet. (My current focus is on assessing Genesis Chamber, and it just GOES OFF when you get the setup going. However, definitely NOT a card for regular variants of the deck)
Also, it is kind of my saying that the better a deck in EDH becomes, the more it feels like a combo deck.
Lastly, I believe you don't have much of a reason to cut flayer. Flayer does much the same job as marionette does in mine. You either use it to focus down a player or to essentially "hold a gun to everyone's head" by threatening lethal damage if they try anything, although marionette is better at this role because the triggers happen immediately. Also, flayer can act as creature control which is very good. I have gearhulk and duplicant for this role, but you have an advantage of having these functions combined into one card.
You're right about the combo aspect, a lot of the time it's about finding the right singleton for the situation you're in and that rewards people with tutors. In my case, it's just about assembling the right equation of This or That with X or Y. Made a slight improvement to the manabase as well as one swap.
I wanted to cut Choked Estuary because it doesn't contained a Basic Land Type or provide more than 3 types of mana to justify possibly coming into play tapped. Thinking about it a bit more, if the greatest crime is ETBT then I should cut nonbasics that don't have that optional ability. As much as I like the Scry, I prefer if my lands came untapped. I think the Tainted Isle will be fine because the main deck has 9 Swamps out of 37 Lands which is slightly less than 1-in-4 which I think is a fine risk to take. At the very worst, it taps for colorless which can be used to filter through Signets or just be used colorlessly.
There are some creatures that make an impact on the board even if I don't have Marchesa to fuel them and Sultai Emissary is not one of them. Phyrexian Delver will lower my life total, especially if I start looping it, and will recover other creatures I've had that have fallen from some course of hate. Sure, that might not be fair to ask of a 2 mana creature, but my other 2 drops seem to be pulling their weight. Unfortunately, the Emissary was my earmarked replacement card so I'm not sure what I'm going to get rid of for Zealous Conscripts or any future additions to the deck after that.
Something I've been thinking about is by lowering my curve it kind of gets harder to clear out the game. I have less really big guys that can turn sideways, aside from my 'growers' in Taurean Mauler, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born and Carrion Feeder. Yahenni, Undying Partisan could qualify but I have a lot less control over when he gets his +1/+1s. The average Power of my creatures is 2.09, which does grow a lot when Marchesa is constantly putting +1/+1s on my creatures. Facing three opponents, that means my 2 power creatures have to deal 120 damage which is pretty difficult. I want to get rid of a few more cards to add some Counters just so I can attempt to disrupt a Combo player's plan, or just to protect Marchesa.
That's when I stumbled across an Infect build of Marchesa. Your creatures still get +1/+1s, except instead of shooting to do 40 it's only 10. A 1/1 with Dethrone can kill of a player in four Swings unaided. Going with Infect means I can ignore any life gain, just need to deal 10 Poison. The added benefit is that the creatures don't deal damage to the player as Infect replaces the damage as Poison Counters. That means I can keep my opponents on the Throne instead of having to figure out ways to hurt ourselves to be able to still get Dethrone triggers.
So... I'm just toying with the idea right now. Here's the rough draft of what I would probably want to include, though to be honest if it costs more than 3 CMC my interest diminishes severely.
1 Blighted Agent
1 Core Prowler
1 Corpse Cur
1 Flensermite
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Ichor Rats
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Ichorclaw Myr
1 Plague Stinger
1 Necroskitter
1 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Plague Myr
1 Septic Rats
1 Thrummingbird
1 Viral Drake
1 Whispering Specter
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Trying to play the aggro game and do 120+ points of damage with 2-3 power creatures, even with small buffs on them, feels awful.
Keep in mind however that my standards for efficient combat step usage is VERY biased. I play a deck designed to eat half or more of someone's life total in one attack with haste. With those kind of standards, I could never build this one to remotely match it and feel satisfied, so that's why I took a different approach entirely.
The problem with said approach is that when you don't draw your combo finishers you don't have much pressure to work with.
Try the method out. The disadvantage in size is easily made up for by the fact that your guys basically do wither damage to creatures. However, you will also run into some cross-type incompatibility issues.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Infect vs. non-infect damage. You might end up having creatures where it almost feels unprofitable to attack after the first dethrone trigger because it would be non-impactful to a infect damage plan.
Test to see if it would be a problem. I thought the artifact versus creature sac outlet incompatibilities (for nonartifacts like Marchesa) would be a problem but they haven't been.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
But on the other hand, Marchesa would be a deadly force to be reckoned with. I think I would need to add Warstorm Surge for increased inevitability.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
There are other cards in your list like Helm of Possession or Death Render that fit the deck well, but I am always reluctant to cut creatures from the deck.
I decided to go full bore with the poison changes. I brought Marchesa today and one of my opponents got so frustrated he picked up his deck and threw it across the table when he conceded. So I can't argue against its effectiveness; however, the hate on for Marchesa has grown even moreso. So, not sure if this will be a permanent change.
Here are the last two days changes:
1 Tainted Strike
1 Plague Stinger
1 Ichor Rats
1 Viral Drake
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Core Prowler
1 Reaper of Sheoldred
1 Warstorm Surge
1 Mana Confluence
1 Plague Myr
1 Blighted Agent
1 Thrummingbird
1 Septic Rats
1 Whispering Specter
1 Necroskitter
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Arcane Denial
1 Swan Song
1 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Sin Prodder
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1 Victimize
1 Helm of Possession
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Fleshwrither
1 Márton Stromgald
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Prophectic Flamespeaker
1 Agent of Erebos
1 Aura Thief
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Faerie Artisans
1 Rishadan Footpad
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Rishadan Brigand
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
I cut the Helm of Possession for Grafted Exoskeleton. Since I don't want to deal 'normal' damage, I don't want to steal normal creatures. Grafted and Helm both function as pseudo-sac outlets but Exoskeleton powers my Grimgrin, Corpse-Born or Marchesa for a big Infector.
I removed the Rishadans since they weren't as effective as they are in my Brago deck. The Grixis Panorama also displeased me and so it was the first land I cut when I got a Mana Confluence.
I cut my Clone package because I needed to make room for Infectors. I had a lot of Clones and while this may be a mistake, the average CMC was 4 which was clunky when trying to put deadly beats onto the table. So, Faerie Artisans also got cut for the same reason, in addition to Sakashima and Clever Impersonator. Dack's Duplicate's Dethrone puts a +1/+1 counter on him which saved him from the axe - this way he can turn into an Infector that grows massive quickly. Swinging at someone as an Unblockable that turns from a 1/1 into a 3/3 and then 5/5 probably kills a player.
The following creatures have Infect, which I think speaks for themselves for their inclusion:
1 Whispering Specter
1 Plague Myr
1 Plague Stinger
1 Ichor Rats
1 Viral Drake
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Core Prowler
1 Reaper of Sheoldred
1 Blighted Agent
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
The Tainted Strike is a tested out surprise, especially if I have an opponent who swings at someone else with 9 unblocked power, Victimize came out for it as a non-creature cut. Warstorm Surge is to help me recycle my Infectors and deal Poisonous damage.
With the goal of cutting my curve down, I needed to make big cuts as the aforementioned clones. This meant that I decided to cut 4 drops over 3. With the goal of eliminating 4 drops, I couldn't keep Gray Merchant - though I do miss his little life boosts in the middle of games. Aura Thief and Agent of Erebos are 'meta calls' of established board states - I hope to Infect those people now and so I cut them. Gonti is very cute but I never really hit jackpot with him, and I'm looking for basic, low cost instants.
With the massive cut of 4 drops, I got rid of the Toolbox Fleshwrither. Some could argue that with the diminished 4 drops it's even more important to be able to tutor but I am not that man. In essense, he's a '7 drop' or wait a turn to try to abuse a Dethrone trigger which usually resulted in a block and trade to keep him off of the Sorcery speed Transfigure. Marton Stromgald was probably the most painful 4 drop as he could make my group into a massive army for the kill; however, his lack of utility past massive attacks is a reason to skip. If I wanted to reinstate a 4 drop, he's at the head of the list.
Out of the three drops, the Taurean Mauler was just a big dumb beater which went against the strategy of keeping people on the Throne with only Infect damage. That also meant that the Flamespeaker's big gains were also hampering. Thada Adel's ability to grab me Sol Rings was iffy - I rather go with someone on strategy than not. Drana is a card that's great if you're ahead and not if you're behind, I need threats at all stages so I cut her. Sin Prodder draws me cards, in theory, but he also pushes people off of the Throne as they intentionally take damage. I do want more card draw in Marchesa now as I seem to run out of gas without all of these utility creatures, but that's a new problem.
Grenzo was cut, which was a painful decision due to his low mana cost, but the decision was based on keeping people on Thrones. I don't want them to start attacking each other, making me sit on the throne and try to swing past with Infect. I also wouldn't really abuse his Exile triggers as I don't want other people's creatures.
With the smallish creatures needing to sneak in hits while people don't have their guard up, my desire for Haste has increased. I think I'll need to hunt down an Anger now. Another curious selection I saw in a Marchesa list posted on Reddit was Lightning Mauler.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Then again, you probably just built a version that would undoubtedly draw more hate than my version.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Sin Prodder
1 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Prophetic Flamespeaker
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Aura Thief
1 Márton Stromgald
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Attrition
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Fleshwrither
1 Chaos Warp
1 Helm of Possession
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Faerie Artisans
1 Tainted Strike
1 Blighted Agent
1 Plague Myr
1 Plague Stinger
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
1 Ichor Rats
1 Necroskitter
1 Whispering Specter
1 Septic Rats
1 Core Prowler
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Viral Drake
1 Reaper of Sheoldred
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Puppeteer Clique
Again, as this is a massive overhaul, I'll just go into generalities. I first cut every single Infect creature as that was no longer part of the package. I thought for a moment or two to keep the Grafted Exoskeleton but I don't think I would have liked it. It's a lot of mana that will invoke more predejuice than Marchesa can already handle. With that cut, I also decided against Tainted Strike even if it had a 'surprise mothertrucker' element to it. Lastly, the decision to cut Puppeteer Clique was after placing a few more 5 and 6 drops, I didn't like it's kind of unreliable nature. Faerie Artisans do something similar, do so at one mana less and only at one blue instead of hoping for double black. If I don't have a sac outlet, then I still have a body that sticks around with the Artisans while I need to have a sac outlet and attack on my own turn to keep the creature. It really was between Artisans or Clever Impersonator but I went with Artisans because I can clone all sorts of things, keep them if I can sac my Faeries and I have two bodies that benefit from Dethrone triggers to maximize my damage. Faeries also fly, so that's evasion to score hits in while a Clone might get stuck in a ground war.
I really liked the Flesh-Eater Imp, so I wanted another sac outlet. Cheap or free is required in Marchesa, so I got Attrition which has a worthwhile effect at getting rid of blockers for Marchesa's men to get in there. Other noncreature shoe ins were Phyrexian Reclamation as a way to get back my creatures, lower my life total for Dethrone and as a way to navigate accidental hate of Mimic Vat and the like. I've realized I need some card draw to keep up with my opponents, so I put a Wheel of Fortune in as a way to draw myself out of crap hands and to maybe dump creatures in the 'yard for a future Living Death. Chaos Warp was random removal I found and Helm of Possession is making it's way back into the deck but I'm not sure if I'll really benefit from it.
For my heavy hitters, I put back Scourge of the Throne back in. Combined with Thrummingbird's Proliferate this could get out of hand for my opponents. I also decided to leave Warstorm Surge in the deck so I can still dome opponents whose life total is low and who I wouldn't be able to farm for Dethrone Triggers. After seeing the success of a Whip of Erebos is another Marchesa deck (There are 3 including mine in the meta), I wanted more life gain as there's a point where your life total might be too low and so Grey Merchant of Asphodel came back in. The big dumb cow and its weird Creature Type synergies returns with Taurean Mauler. Márton Stromgald, the Red Craterhoof Behemoth, makes a return so my guys can seriously wreck someone's face. Lastly, I put the Prophetic Flamespeaker back due to my goal of getting more +1/+1 counters, as that makes him hit harder but also my goal of drawing more cards. This is also why I put Drana back in the deck; the damage output gets absurd with a Flamespeaker, a Thrummingbird and her.
I cut Grenzo as his utility wasn't that great. I now have other things to do with my mana, like re-equipping, activating Attrition and the like. Also, there's a lot of Scry in the deck. What happens to undesirable cards? They go to the bottom, which then Grenzo needs to dig through. Instead, I rather have utility like Sin Prodder - draws me, Menaces to get hits in and sometimes does damage (though more likely mill off lands). I'm not too pleased with Fleshwrither, as it's seven mana that I can't use to tutor for a win con aside from Murderous Redcap. The attacking and then popping is unreliable as people are willing to trade. With my goal of increased aggression, I have less four drops than the standard list which has been paying incredible dividends with Matter Reshaper and Treasure Keeper. Aura Thief is a meta call that sometimes completely screws over my opponent's strategies and other times just nabs me a useful Enchantment, though I am in love of stealing Sylvan Library - draw cards which I need and lowers my life as well.
Lastly, I know the power of Clones but I decided to only include the best one - Sakashima lets me choose to double up on Marchesa if nothing else is appetizing. I thought Marchesa abused Clones until I played my Brago, King Eternal deck. Now I'm less impressed in Marchesa but doubling my Commander is worth it. If I get my hands on the 2 mana Clone, that's aggressive enough.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 River Kelpie
1 Wight of Precinct Six
1 Warstorm Surge
1 Fleshwrither
The main problem I had was finishing players when I am unable to get +1/+1s because I am at the highest life and running out of gas. The River Kelpie and Wight should solve this problem. I noticed a lot of the games I won was when one of my scalers got out of control and players had to deal with them, but they just kept coming back. Wight is low cost, which means it can hit the board pre-Marchesa or be a nice quick drop. If my opponents each only have 2 creatures in their yards in 4 man pod, Wight is a 7/7 which I think is a more than generous assumption. Unlike my other scalers, I don't have to regrow him everytime he gets Wrathed away which is nice though he doesn't have the ability to scale indefinitely. As for the Kelpie, a lot of my stuff dies and returns which should draw me enough cards to get to my next Card Advantage engine by the time they answer it.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Aetherworks Marvel
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Helm of Possession
1 Bad River
I am cutting Bad River due to it being a ETBT land, even if it fetches any land I want. I cut this over Basics because I'm currently dangerously low and thus inconsistent with my check and tango lands. The options of improving this is more Shocklands (ha!) or ABUR Duals (HA!). Fetches count as well, I guess. It's a problem of trying to keep my landbase as 3 color friendly as possible while trying to use as few ETBT lands or ETBT conditionals. I chose the Tarnished Citadel because it lowers my life to gain Dethrone triggers, I'll have to see if this is too deadly but I think it's fine due to hitting any color, being colorless for my Matter Reshaper and letting the Dethrone flow freely. There have been a few awkward games where I was sitting at 40 with the rest of the pod being in the 20s and I had no pain sources in sight. Upping that count.
So far, I am toying with the idea of adding Kokusho, the Evening Star just as additional drain on the table. It's to cushion my life total. Another card I am considering is Notion Thief. It's easier on my curve, denies my opponents their extra draws and keeps my aggro fueled up. The fact that it is a 3/1 isn't bad in the turn sideways department, Flash is good too though I'm uncertain on how I'll exactly take advantage of that with Marchesa. The creature I'm thinking of removing is Scourge of the Throne. It's an expensive win-more. Otherwise, the deck works wonderfully barring adding $20+ cards, such as Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for defense or Sygg, River Cutthroat for additional, cheap draw. Plus all of the mana fixing lands like Fetches or Filters.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I also haven't played for like four weeks, but upon returning I saw artifact removal go towards a turn 1 Arcbound Worker rather than a turn 3 Thran Dynamo. The crazy thing is that based on what I had in my hand and the player's suspicions, that move was actually correct!
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I'm thinking of making big changes to Marchesa but I'll keep them out until I see more of what Amonkhet brings. It's Nicol Bolas' Plane, he's Grixis colours and so I hope he'll bring some love to this Shard.
Made the following changes:
1 Hanweir Garrison
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Temple of Malice
As for the Battlements, I didn't want to cut any untapped land. My mana base is currently not the most reliable, so while the Flamekin Village is the obvious analogue I don't want to get rid of the single Red source. When measured against making Haste vs another ETBT Land, I decided the Scry 1 was the weakest. While cutting the Scourge reduces my Red sources, I found that I have more R/B Duals than B/U or U/R so that's why I went with that cut. Unfortunately, the solution for my mana base problems is to just dump a lot of money into it.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Combat Celebrant
1 Faerie Artisans
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I got a little testing done with Combat Celebrant in Xenagod, and it does work. Even when no one else is around, it hits for 24 by itself!
I can foresee myself cutting artisans at some point in my Marchesa build myself. It merely depends upon what I need for the deck.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Dack's Duplicate
This then makes me want to shift to other cards that will gain me life, like Whip of Erebos, as things keep costing mana. The problem then becomes: I'm pushing my curve up again. I'm not sure if that's really a problem, but it was nice playing out a bunch of creatures that just kept giving me value.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I'd also recommend trying out Perplex if you can find a cut for it, it's a fair soft counter in certain contexts but most of all you can Transmute it to find Unspeakable Symbol or any other 3CMC card you may require, but mostly it's just a second copy of Unspeakable Symbol.
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Living Death
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
If other people are abusing graveyard strategies it becomes far less appealing of a card.
In my build I use Scrap Mastery instead because the card is much more one-sided and achieves pretty much the same goal.
Lastly, I'm also making a controversial cut. I'm cutting Flayer of the Hatebound, but mainly because I don't have enough infinite sac outlets for creatures (I have infinite outlets for artifacts and creatures) so it was never an appealing card for me to play. Plus, my opponents are way more scared of Marionette Master and that card kills significantly faster in my build. Point is, don't be afraid to make these controversial cuts if they don't actually work, and I'm glad you are doing this.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Something I've realized with the Marchesa deck is every card really, really needs to pull its weight, establishing advantage early in the game is crucial so sitting with a hand of 5/6 drops that are too situational or not impactful enough is a bit of a death sentence, so like Plush says if a cut seems controversial but you've noticed how it's a dead card too often it's definitely the right call, I'm kind of in that situation with River Kelpie. On paper (excuse the pun) it seems amazing, but its cost is generally too high and I think our card advantage engines need to be at much lower CMC, things like Grim Haruspex/Pain Seer/Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena are more where we want to be.
I'm on the same page about Flayer I think, I've never cast it and gained huge advantage from it within the first two turns of it being down. When you're behind it's doing nothing to catch you up, and if you're ahead it's too win-more. Instant impact really seems crucial for this deck to maintain its tempo.
Also, as an aside, how has everyone been finding Combat Celebrant? I've been super impressed, I run Lightning Mauler as an early haste enabler and it's amazing how quickly the deck can rack up damage early in the game with Celebrant and a couple of other higher power creatures.
Also curious to hear your experience with Aetherworks Marvel.
I still like the Flayer as well, just because the amount of times he's killed someone before they would've killed me. Usually, I realize someone is going to come after me and at the end of the 2nd main of my opponent, I sac a bunch of things and dome the threatening player. Hell, sometimes I just do it to kill them if they weren't that big of a threat so I can get back to my turn. I don't see it as a win-more yet, it's just something that gets the job done at 6 CMC, which is only shared by Mikeaeus, the Unhallowed and Deathrender (with the 2 Equip cost). If I add the two more 5 CMCs (Phyrexian Delver and Zealous Conscripts), I might get a different opinion.
I haven't resolved Combat Celebrant yet. Though he made me add Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker for an Infinite Win. The one time I had the chance to play it and didn't was because an opponent had a Propaganda and I can't just Infinite into his face. If I waited a turn instead of pitching him due having more than 7 cards in hand from my Necropotence, I would've won because someone blew up all the Enchantments on the field. So, missing out on an instant win due my error is still damned high praise. I'll have to play more games and get a chance to cast him and swing before I say anything (I had one other game where he got Countered). For 3 mana, a 'must counter/kill' for my opponents is damned good. Don't underestimate Wight of Precinct Six, that's 7+ power on average for 2 mana. Sure, Yahenni, Undying Partisan and Grimgrin, Corpse-Born get a lot of respect because of how big they can grow (along with maybe Taurean Mauler) but the Wight is immediately sizeable. He can get fed into Miren, the Moaning Well for great effect but also because he's not a grower, he can easily get sacrificed and come back without losing any power to all the other sac outlets in Marchesa.
Marchesa also plays fast, so Thrummingbird does a lot of work. It, along with Hanweir Garrison, do a deceptive amount of damage. Alone, the bird goes from a 1/1 to a 3/3 after the first Dethrone, then a 5/5 and then 7/7. Meanwhile, it is also growing a lot of my other creatures as well. With flying, it also gets in quickly with a bit of evasion. Perhaps it is a card that is good while you're even or ahead, but it puts rocketshoes on your creatures while doing that. And if you're behind, it's a 1/1 Flyer - that chumps a lot of dangerous things, which could give you enough time to have your ground force retaliate.
Aetherworks Marvel has been great. It is easy in Marchesa to get 6 permanents dying at the end of each rotation, especially if you have some sort of +1/+1 giver (Oona's Blackguard, Metallic Mimic, Sage of Fables) with a creature that benefits from that and a sac outlet. It gives you an extra card played and that is good; plus the added value of repeatedly sacrificing something that gives you benefits (Matter Reshaper/Treasure Keeper) to something that really likes eating your own creatures (Grimgin, Carrion Feeder). Marchesa, at her heart, is a tempo deck because you need to kill the table with your unwrathable army before they get outsized. I'm finding that I'm slowly getting outsized or hated out as the meta shifts to deal with her - hence my decision to add more combo which the Marvel helps to dig for. Also, since it is a cast, I can try to get lucky and use Counterspells if someone is going to do something devastating.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Also, it is kind of my saying that the better a deck in EDH becomes, the more it feels like a combo deck.
Lastly, I believe you don't have much of a reason to cut flayer. Flayer does much the same job as marionette does in mine. You either use it to focus down a player or to essentially "hold a gun to everyone's head" by threatening lethal damage if they try anything, although marionette is better at this role because the triggers happen immediately. Also, flayer can act as creature control which is very good. I have gearhulk and duplicant for this role, but you have an advantage of having these functions combined into one card.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Tainted Isle
1 Sultai Emissary
1 Temple of Deceit
There are some creatures that make an impact on the board even if I don't have Marchesa to fuel them and Sultai Emissary is not one of them. Phyrexian Delver will lower my life total, especially if I start looping it, and will recover other creatures I've had that have fallen from some course of hate. Sure, that might not be fair to ask of a 2 mana creature, but my other 2 drops seem to be pulling their weight. Unfortunately, the Emissary was my earmarked replacement card so I'm not sure what I'm going to get rid of for Zealous Conscripts or any future additions to the deck after that.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs