HI, Been testing this deck A TON on MTGO, only changes have to do with cards banned on MTGO SOL Ring etc.
I've noticed a couple people talk about Hall of Gemstone.
The comments state that the inclusion has to do with not having green for fog effects on opponents turns. Am I wrong or can't we just cast it during there upkeep while the Hall is on the stack? This saves us and allows us to play a card that I think is AWESOME. Other than that, the deck is super sweet. SOOOO many people have scooped to this build.
Glad you're having success with it! You're 100% correct. I guess in multiplayer I always want to be able to encourage people to attack other people, and having fogged already makes that pointless. Though to be honest, you can usually tell if they're gonna come for you and respond as you mention by fogging during their upkeep. Plus Hall of Gemstones doesn't effect Spike Weaver at all. There's also the hate factor, as Roger mentioned - the card shuts down a lot of decks pretty hard, stopping them from playing their generals and making it very difficult for them to have productive turns. That's why it's good, of course, but it's a double-edged sword.
I like Ritual of Subdual because you can get around it with the Wild Growth and so on. It slows everything down, including yourself. But once you hit the mid-late game, the deck is essentially stopping all damage from coming through and just needs to build up enough mana to Hurricane everyone out or get a few turns in with Emrakul, the Promised End. So that's what the ritual is there for, to buy those turns with extra protection against any interference. I play it over Freyalise's Winds because I don't have ways to make the winds asymmetrical (if your general was Patron of the Orochi, for example, you could get a lot of milage out of it). So Winds just slows me down a ton too.
I like Roger's idea with the land package, have been building that in too but haven't had a chance to play the deck very much lately so I can't say a ton about it. Life from the Loam and the cycling lands seems great, and Crucible of Worlds plus Strip Mine or Wasteland also, especially as there are so many ways to play more lands in a turn.
If you're playing on MTGO, just out of curiosity, are you playing 1v1 or multiplayer?
Only Multiplayer so far. I've been testing some other stuff lately with good results. I decided to take out the Hall and Rites all together. They are just too hate driven in testing. I find it best to just stay back as much as possible, usually I can chain a couple things and win in one turn. Platinum Emperion has been amazing so I can go off in one turn. (Assuming I've already dropped a land and can't play the Glasial Chasm)
Mana Bloom and Holistic Wisdom are both bugged online so I can't play them. I've been using Oracle of Mul Daya and Season's Past in their place. SP is awesome by the way.
I'll get my exact deck list up eventually. I will say that in the 20 plus decks I have online, for multiplayer this is by far the funnest.
So when you post in a forum, use one of the toggle buttons above the text box. It's second from the right. In the parentheses, type the names of your cards as you'd like them ordered. They need a number before them though - either the number of them you run, orthe casting cost.
Or the code is [deck] to start[deck] with a / before deck to finish. If i just type it it will think i'm posting a list, so this is the easiest way to illustrate.
I have my deck list below... Well, the deck list I'm using. The only changes from the Original deck had to do with either A. The card was bugged or banned from MTGO Commander *cough* Sol Ring *cough*. Or B, I just prefer this card to my play style/experiences.
Please note I've only played this online and meta choices have more to do with really popular commanders. The deck is AWESOME! Just like it says on the first page, "If you like control and don't wanna be that guy with the counterspells." This deck is for you. Probably too much build up for a deck that only has 13 changes. Without further ado
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Played a lot of games with very few permanents and was getting low values. Also, I never once wanted to get it with a tutor so I took it out.
Nissa's Pilgrimage I wanted an effect that brought no more then one land into play to be cheaper. Getting the lands in hand Nissa already does just fine and I'd rather play of turn three.
Burnished Hart needed to cut ramp for more pillow type effects.
Hibernation's End Again too slow. When I got any value, there where always creatures I wanted 4 turns ealier--or I already played the card. If I test this again, there will be an addition paired with it that adds counters or something of that nature so I can really get value out of it.
Goblin Charbelcher I'd be lying if I said this card didn't win me games. It's just not in the way I wanted them to. Mostly hitting creatures that were giving me problems, like spot removal. I had one game I took ALL the forest out of my deck via bounty, cast and activated Goblin Charbelcher twice that same turn and couldn't kill someone at 20ish life. I would play this card with less variance aka 86ing the non basics.
Emrakul, the Promised End I've cast him about 10 times. 10 Times is also the number of times the person I targeted conceding before it resolved. Several times, the rest of the players quit as well. I feel like they forget we're online and don't want me to tough their expensive stuff. HA! I also found it in my hand and playing it would make me a target when I didn't want it, or didn't move my game. Really don't want to cast unless you really need help from other decks to finish the job for you.
Sapseep Foreset Needed spot for a non basic. Could still put it back in.
Ritual of Subdual Tested just the one effect. Tested multiples of this effect. I needed more time before becoming the target. I really wanted to play a mana doubler at 6. Really anything that helps me and doesn't piss everyone off. politics
As for the Additions I wanted more pillow fort type effects. This is why I added 4 more total.
Platinum Emperion I wanted something else that I can pair with Hurricane type effects. Card is neat, unlike some situations with glacial chasm where I'm going off and can't play another land that turn. I can just drop big daddy and go. Also pairs well with the next addition Asceticism
Asceticism Pairs with patinum making platinum really hard to deal with since many of sweepers don't beat it. Almost all of our creatures hit before 5, having something that makes them harder to kill ensures we get some value.
Orbs of Warding First, I tested this card just to pair with the next in a pillow fort type lock down. Then, just playing it by itself I got to see all the goodness. It shuts down popular commanders like Nekusar, the Mindrazer or Gonti, Lord of Luxury. It helps when decks are going wide to take off some damage. There have just been so many situations where a player cast a spell and I go "OH NO!" then I realize I have hexproof and go "%^$& Yeah!"
Forcefield I probably wouldn't be testing if not for it being cheap online. Pairing it with Orbs of Warding gives me a lock for most go tall strategies. There has been a lot of times where I can gain plenty of life but just lose to commander damage I just can't stop. This limits that damage.
As for Utility, five new additions here.
Acidic Slime I like that it makes green sun's zenith better. I wanted more spot removal and the ability to destroy a land. I know how pesky they can be. Pairs well with Genesis
Song of the Dryad I just needed more of this effect. Plus again, I can get a land.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All Not being able to play your hurricane effect is horrible. Starring at a couple of islands becomes less miserable when you have access to this.
Reliquary Tower This deck sometime gets the point you are discarding cards you want just because you can get it back later if you need it with your recursion spells. I just want to avoid discarding if I can.
Slice in Twain I wanted more out of this effect. And since I dropped one draw spell from the original build, this kind of helps make up for it.
Only one new card in recursion.
Season's Past I needed a replacement for Holistic Wisdom and honestly, when the bug is fixed I'll probably play both. These cards make it so much easier to go against a white deck and not be afraid of Austere Command etc. SP gets a lot of cards including Glacial Chasm
The next I listed as a Win CON.
Avenger of Zendikar But honestly it may be more of a pillow fort I can get with green sun's zenith. He's def a clock and something that needs to be dealt with. Any deck that's playing Boundless Realms should be playing this big boy as a back up win con.
Oracle of Mul Daya This card was mentioned in the primer and although the power level is high, it doesn't draw hate for what I'm doing. With the addition of Asceticism I'm getting plenty of value. Helps with our commander. I love it.
Mana Reflection I can't get enough of this effect. I pretty much get it and win. Multiple times I've chained one or two of these effects into a Early Harvest and it's good game. Having too much many is never a problem with this deck. Especially when we're running combos like Forcefield and Orbs of Warding.
These are cards I'm going to keep testing, but haven't impressed me.
Primal Command I need to cast it more. I like this card better in 1 V 1. Drawing early can seem dead as you are trying to not be a target early.
High Market Tucking isn't a thing online. The only reason I really like it is with Genesis.
Cyclone Kinda slow. The one time I dropped it on turn three and dropped a glacial chasm it was nice. I think part of the reason I keep it is because if you are powering through with your creatures as engines, it makes good Wildest Dreams and Nostalgic Dreams fodder.
ROCK STAR
Tornado I just want to shout out to the awesomeness that is Tornado. This card has got me out of soooooo many tough spots. It is such a powerful effect. I can't say enough good things.
Well, that's my current take. I'll keep it updated as I play more.
Dang man, thanks for killer writeup! Glad your liking the deck
Your list looks great to me, and a lot of your cuts are my pet cards or cards I agree are sub-optimal, and a lot of your adds are the things I'd add if I were making it more competitive. I should update the list up front, I actually cut Burnished Hart and Preferred Selection myself. Totally agree on Goblin Charbelcher - I like that it give us a way to remove creatures, since that is sorely lacking in green, but it is really hit or miss and as a win con it takes a lot of setup. Hibernation's End is really slow and could easily be cut.
I am surprised that you're not getting a ton of mileage out of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx though, it usually taps for at least 6 or so when I play it. It's not Cabal Coffers levels of good, but it does seem better than a basic most of the time.
Of your adds the most interesting I think is the Platinum Emperion idea, with Asceticism for backup. I never thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense and I like it as an additional protection piece that also protects against non-combat damage and so he can save us from Hurricane. Plus he can be recurred with Genesis and tutored with Primal Command.
Don't know about Avenger of Zendikar, it's obviously good, and I guess one attack-based win con won't spoil the theme too much, haha.
It's a real shame you can't run Holistic Wisdom as it is really good. Seasons Past is a great card too though, and arguably better in that it does everything all at once. I like the wisdom for recurring the same effect over and over.
With regard to your maybes, I'd say that Cyclone is easily cuttable. It's kind of cool, but really slow and kills your own enchantresses while also tapping down your lands. High Market I think is good just because there's pretty low opportunity cost in cutting a forest, and as you mention it is really good with Genesis. I've won games by using it save creatures from exile effects, or using it to recur Emrakul, the Promised End, and it might be even better for you since you have Acidic Slime. I'm surprised to see Primal Command on the chopping block though. Most of the time it's a creature tutor and possibly graveyard hate. If you want a faster tutor you could just run Worldly Tutor to get the early enchantress, and that might be the better card overall.
I wouldn't try Power Conduit if you are planning to make the deck more competitive. It takes some effort to make it good, but with all the right pieces it can get busted. Still living the dream of having both Tornado and Power Conduit down with Seedborn Muse. But I have tried having the Muse, Conduit and Glacial Chasm down, which wasn't fun for the players that didn't run landdestruction
About Cyclone I actually like it very much, and it have been eating a lot of removal to my own surprise. It takes down many utility creatures, and since I play Kamahl, it can be targeted land removal (so yeah, maybe thats one of the reasons it gets targeted).
I know I run more utillity lands then others, but do you think about Hour of Promise? At first it looks like an overcosted ramp spell, but the choice of getting any two lands seems very appealing. The zombie-thing is a bit flavorfail for a monogreen control deck though...
It seems solid to me. Getting two lands also means (as I'm sure you've noticed) that it can directly fetch Stage + Depths, which is nice. There aren't a lot of deserts that I like tho tbh, except maaaaaaaybe the cycling one, since I guess there's not harm in playing another cycling land if we're going all-in on the Life from the Loam plan. Which is to say, the zombie effect is meaningless to us and kind of just makes the card less beautiful and streamlined.
In any case, while we're talking about HOU, the whole set is out now and so here is my long-awaited set review (I won't deal with cards that are obvious draft fodder or are designed for creature-heavy strategies):
Nissa's Defeat: Wow don't play this unless you're profoundly masochistic or enjoy strange ironies. Really just a sad card.
Uncage the Menagerie: Not totally bad actually. Set at 3 it gets you three card-drawcreatures. Or Eternal Witness to do it all again. Set at 2 it gets one enchantress and Scavenging Ooze which is not too bad either. Set at 4 it gets you fogs and enchantress. I think it could be useful as it is always at least a 2-for-1 and gives access to whatever we need, be it card draw, protection, recursion, or win cons. Drawback is it's kind of expensive and probably takes up the whole turn you cast it.
Ramunap Extractor: I'd rather have Crucible of Worlds but then again I'd rather pay my rent. And also this one is tutorable with creature tutors. I don't think Crucible effects are at their very best here, but it wouldn't be hard to throw in the relevant nonbasics and go down that path.
Mirage Mirror: I kind of like this in the way I like all kind of weird effects that I don't really know where to put. We have the mana to use it (though it can only be used once a turn, which is kind of un-great). Could be good for doing random things? I dunno but I'm interested by it. One extra cool interaction is that if you copy Tornado you'll get a few blasts with a lesser life payment. Or if you copy Sandwurm Convergence you'll get twice the sandwurms. Most of all though I think you'll be copying your opponent's stuff for random interactions, which is usually fun, though probably not the best way to win in a competitive environment.
Dagger of the Worthy: Look if you equip this to Nissa, and then attack 6 times, while also never playing that 7th land, and your opponent does not block or disrupt you in any way, you will win the game. AUTO-INCLUDE
Desert of the Indomitable: one more cycling land can't be that bad. ETB tap is bad of course, but if you're into the Life from the Loam package, you could do worse than throwing this in there.
Nissa, Genesis Mage: Big and slow and dumb version for n00bs. That is my official assessment.
KAPOW! and there you have it. Any thoughts on the set welcome! I think the two most exciting cards are easily Hour of Promise and Uncage the Menagerie. Both probably decent options worth trying out, though neither are so powerful you'd be a fool not to run them.
It seems solid to me. Getting two lands also means (as I'm sure you've noticed) that it can directly fetch Stage + Depths, which is nice. There aren't a lot of deserts that I like tho tbh, except maaaaaaaybe the cycling one, since I guess there's not harm in playing another cycling land if we're going all-in on the Life from the Loam plan. Which is to say, the zombie effect is meaningless to us and kind of just makes the card less beautiful and streamlined.
In any case, while we're talking about HOU, the whole set is out now and so here is my long-awaited set review (I won't deal with cards that are obvious draft fodder or are designed for creature-heavy strategies):
Nissa's Defeat: Wow don't play this unless you're profoundly masochistic or enjoy strange ironies. Really just a sad card.
Uncage the Menagerie: Not totally bad actually. Set at 3 it gets you three card-drawcreatures. Or Eternal Witness to do it all again. Set at 2 it gets one enchantress and Scavenging Ooze which is not too bad either. Set at 4 it gets you fogs and enchantress. I think it could be useful as it is always at least a 2-for-1 and gives access to whatever we need, be it card draw, protection, recursion, or win cons. Drawback is it's kind of expensive and probably takes up the whole turn you cast it.
Ramunap Extractor: I'd rather have Crucible of Worlds but then again I'd rather pay my rent. And also this one is tutorable with creature tutors. I don't think Crucible effects are at their very best here, but it wouldn't be hard to throw in the relevant nonbasics and go down that path.
Mirage Mirror: I kind of like this in the way I like all kind of weird effects that I don't really know where to put. We have the mana to use it (though it can only be used once a turn, which is kind of un-great). Could be good for doing random things? I dunno but I'm interested by it. One extra cool interaction is that if you copy Tornado you'll get a few blasts with a lesser life payment. Or if you copy Sandwurm Convergence you'll get twice the sandwurms. Most of all though I think you'll be copying your opponent's stuff for random interactions, which is usually fun, though probably not the best way to win in a competitive environment.
Dagger of the Worthy: Look if you equip this to Nissa, and then attack 6 times, while also never playing that 7th land, and your opponent does not block or disrupt you in any way, you will win the game. AUTO-INCLUDE
Desert of the Indomitable: one more cycling land can't be that bad. ETB tap is bad of course, but if you're into the Life from the Loam package, you could do worse than throwing this in there.
Nissa, Genesis Mage: Big and slow and dumb version for n00bs. That is my official assessment.
KAPOW! and there you have it. Any thoughts on the set welcome! I think the two most exciting cards are easily Hour of Promise and Uncage the Menagerie. Both probably decent options worth trying out, though neither are so powerful you'd be a fool not to run them.
I think I can agree on your thoughts. I'm definitely getting Hour of Promise, Uncage the Menagerie and Rumanap Excavator, and yeah, Im also slotting in the cycling desert. The tutor will only find a home in the creature-build im making, but I see great potential for it. Mirage Mirror seems like a really fun card. I have a mono brown deck, and it goes in there no matter what. It's' going to be lovely copying all sorts of things in a deck, that only plays artifacts. That said, I could see it being in a lot of other decks, but I think you should be able to abuse it more and wrap the deck a bit around it, before it will be great. But it's just super versatile!
I actually rather have Rumanap Excavator over Crucible, since it's way easier to tutor for in green and also to recur it.
Firstly, just want to say I love this deck and thank you very much for maintaining this primer. I literally made a Salvation account just to post here.
Secondly, There’s been a few big changes since your HoD update. Mainly the planeswalker rule (we can now board more Nissas), C17 and Ixalan. Any thoughts on how they might impact the list? I think Vital Force’s ability to recur from the graveyard and her draw cards when you play land emblem are both very strong in this build.
Welcome to Salvation and very welcome to this thread. Lovely to hear about others loving the Mono Green Control.
I have actually been wanting to comment on the recent sets aswell (mostly to get aslidsiksoraksi to talk, lol), but then i actually had nothing to add, since Ixalan didn't have anything to add to my deck. Not that it didn't bring anything good though. I absolutely love the new DFC's, and Growing Rites of Itlimoc is a welcomed version of Cradle for my creaturebased MGC-deck. I would love a real Cradle, but i intend to bring food to the table instead
In other news, Ramunap Excavator have been great. I've added every playable cycling-land, have a bunch of other lands that sac, and replaying them feels great. I've also added Realm Seekers. I know they are pretty expensive, but they get ridiculously big, and if they stick, they secure a landdrop of any kind. It just eats removal too fast, lol.
I agree with you, Wizard of Foz that Nissa, Vital Force is a great card. I havn't gotten one IRL, but she's in my decklist @cockatrice. Sadly, I havn't had much experience with her, but i'm almost never unhappy to see her. Getting that emblem is sick, though!
I've been waiting for feedback on Ramunap Excavator. Good to hear he pulls his weight. Constant Mists can take a toll. Didn't want to fork out for him without a verdict as he does nothing otherwise.
I bought a couple of Ixalan prerelease packs the other day (couldn't attend but my LGS was happy to sell me some after the fact) and my wife pulled Growing Rites of Itlimoc. I pulled nothing of significance. Her exact words were 'I want to give it to you, but it's way too good.' Definitely after a copy for my Nissa iteration if I can get it though. The other card I've had my eye on is Shapers' Sanctuary. Great value for a one drop.
Yeah, Shapers' Sanctuary caught my eye too, but I'm not sure how to evaluate it. I imagine it'll be good in an enchantress list (like this primer sort of is), so it most likely would cantrip for one, maybe drawing a couple of cards, before eating removal. But sometimes it won't do anything by itself, and then I'd rather have Asceticism, that actually protect my guys.
whoa sorry y'all, i been sleeping on my duties here! real life is a stupid thing
Here's a review of the recent sets. Unfortunately, Wizards many years ago decided green=creatures, so they don't really show a lot of love to the creature-light version I run. still, lets take a look.
Commander 2017
None of the new green cards seem good? There's a bad Reclamation Sage in Qasali Slingers, and Hungry Lynx is kinda cool, but also probably not worthwhile if you're not going hard into catland.
Same goes for artifacts - they're all equipments or based on a tribal theme...
Didn't really expect much tbh but still kind of disapointing.
Ixalan
Deathgorger Scavenger: seems kinda cool. If you're going the ETB route you could do worse. If you want dedicated grave hate Loam Shaman is probably better, but this guy could become a beater? Marginal, but you get style points for playing a dinosaur Growing Rites of Itlimoc: again could be cool in the creature-oriented versions. Provides filtering, and I imagine flipping it won't be too hard. I think Toc plays a more creature-y version, so maybe he could say better how many creatures he often has in play and whether this would be worth it. Ripjaw Raptor: man I really like this card but I don't know if it fits here. Could be a good blocker? Probably not good enough and we don't have any good way to abuse it. If you played a Sekki, Seasons' Guide version of MonoGreen Control with all the sweet combo finishes that involve pinging though... Might just have to explore that route, haha Shaper's Sanctuary: again interesting, but there are probably better things to do. Mirri's Guile seems stronger, especially as in many games my only creatures are Nissa and Enchantresses. Don't like depending on my opponents. If you play a lot of creatures, usually it's wraths that I'd worry about. Waker of the Wilds: this guy could work as a finisher. We make tons of mana, and Hurricane is classy and all, but with this we can animate just one monster land (so we don't get blown out by wraths) and can keep doing it over and over. Worth a try I'd say. Blinding Fog: if you wanted a more flexible fog, could use this? It lacks recursion though Crushing Canopy: I know they have Crushing Vines... why don't they just make a modal disenchant that kills flying creatures??? I like the idea of having straight-out creature removal, even if it is conditional. Probably not good enough though, especially as flying creatures already have answers in Hurricane and co. Ancient Brontodon: c'mon so much style points. Imagine Nissa just wandering the Vastwood on one of these. Tell me it's not amazing. Thaumatic Compass: easy to flip. turns into Maze of Ith and finds you lands. Might actually be better than the Maze since it finds you lands; the problem with Maze is that its a land drop and doesn't tap for mana. Could try swapping them and seeing how it feels. Primal Amulet: we have a decent number of instants and sorceries, so could flip this and benefit from its front side, especially if you don't do the enchantress thing (I think Roger, your list is creature-light but also not enchantress, so maybe extra good for you?). Flip side makes the Hurricane kill a lot easier, so I'd put this on the maybe pile.
The planeswalker rule is very good for us, I agree that Nissa, Vital Force should be in the deck. All her abilities are good, and she even makes blockers! Plus she has, in my opinion, the best Nissa art. Now, what to cut...
I don't play Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator, so I'm afraid I can't be a ton of help on those. I don't like Excavator just for being a creature - makes him too fragile in my mind. Crucible I don't play because it's expensive ($-wise) and sends a message like "I play for keeps"; not really my style, like it says on the primer, I'm a more 75% person. The effect on both is definitely great, so either card could be very good, but that's my story. Realm Seekers is a spicy one! Glad it's working
Welcome to the MonoGreen Control world Wizard of Foz!! Glad you're enjoying the deck, and thanks for posting and reminding me to update this whole thing (I've updated the first post as well). I like to think we're a kind of tight-knit community here, so if you have any questions or suggestions do let us know
I really like the new DFC's but I can't imagine I would ever run Thaumatic Compass in a G-deck. I tend to add as much ramp as I possibly can, I guess. So spending 5 mana to put a land into my hand, is not something I want to do. It fits the bill for control decks, but if I need a Maze, I'll rather just tutor for it and play it, then jumping through some hoops to get the compass going. Redundency might be a thing, but thats what all the land-tutors are for really.
I think the compass worth trying out, but wouldn't call it an auto-include by any means. As ramp it's hardly worth it, you'd be playing it as a two mana Maze of Ith with a weird land-fetch mode attached just in case. That mode is extra redundant when you figure that if you have three mana and need the fourth land, Nissa, Vastwood Seer will already get you there. still, could be nice not to use a land drop.
Hello, I got an itch to try something new and stumbled upon your deck list. I continued reading and was shocked (in a good way!) in the direction you took the deck. I scrambled to put your deck list together from cards I already owned and hunted for some of the older ones at my local store. After, I got your iteration of the deck together and went to play with my group of friends. It was amazingly fun and hilarious!!
Game 1:
My friend playing Aurelia, the Warleader had an indestructible field and proceeded in wiping out the table. Then he got to me, Glacial Chasm and Constant Mists are all-stars because they saved my butt so many times that game. I drew into Squall Lineand with the power of mana doublers, nuked him for the win.
Game 2:
Now, that everyone had an idea on how the deck worked it became more challenging. A card that really surprised me was Revelation. The table got spooked and everyone was thinking of a group effort way to suppress the deck. At first, I thought this card was useless when I first saw it...Then I played it. It lead to an interesting revelation on my part. The Prossh, Skyraider of Kher player at the table had a pretty alarming hand. All thoughts on suppressing the deck and I were forgotten. I thought to myself the political power this card holds is incredible!!!
Although, I was temporarily forgotten the blue players held up counters for Squall Line and Hurricane. A side note, I cannot say enough good things about the decks recursion package!! Nostalgic Dreams allowed me to recur and decimate my competitors after they thought they had neutered the deck.
Changes
Since playing my friends I made some changes like adding Boseiju, Who Shelters All for those pesky blue mages. After reading someone's suggestion on the usage of Life from the Loam and cycle lands, I got more excited. I also, threw in Life from the Loam and the two old cycle lands. I replaced Preferred Selection figuring if I have a problem I will just dig for a solution. I replaced Lignify with Song of the Dryads because my group is really, really efficient at killing creatures. Plus the idea of Song of the Dryads comboed with Thespian's Stage brings me joy thinking about it. With all that said, life hasn't allowed me to play with the new changes...
On the chopping block right now is Hibernation's End it is slow and super clunky. I saw someone talking about possibly trying out Sandwurm Convergence. If anyone tried it out, how was it?
I would like to thank aslidsiksoraksi for sharing this deck list (I mean gift) as you have fully converted me onto the ways of mono-green control.
Hello, I got an itch to try something new and stumbled upon your deck list. I continued reading and was shocked (in a good way!) in the direction you took the deck. I scrambled to put your deck list together from cards I already owned and hunted for some of the older ones at my local store. After, I got your iteration of the deck together and went to play with my group of friends. It was amazingly fun and hilarious!!
Game 1:
My friend playing Aurelia, the Warleader had an indestructible field and proceeded in wiping out the table. Then he got to me, Glacial Chasm and Constant Mists are all-stars because they saved my butt so many times that game. I drew into Squall Lineand with the power of mana doublers, nuked him for the win.
Game 2:
Now, that everyone had an idea on how the deck worked it became more challenging. A card that really surprised me was Revelation. The table got spooked and everyone was thinking of a group effort way to suppress the deck. At first, I thought this card was useless when I first saw it...Then I played it. It lead to an interesting revelation on my part. The Prossh, Skyraider of Kher player at the table had a pretty alarming hand. All thoughts on suppressing the deck and I were forgotten. I thought to myself the political power this card holds is incredible!!!
Although, I was temporarily forgotten the blue players held up counters for Squall Line and Hurricane. A side note, I cannot say enough good things about the decks recursion package!! Nostalgic Dreams allowed me to recur and decimate my competitors after they thought they had neutered the deck.
Changes
Since playing my friends I made some changes like adding Boseiju, Who Shelters All for those pesky blue mages. After reading someone's suggestion on the usage of Life from the Loam and cycle lands, I got more excited. I also, threw in Life from the Loam and the two old cycle lands. I replaced Preferred Selection figuring if I have a problem I will just dig for a solution. I replaced Lignify with Song of the Dryads because my group is really, really efficient at killing creatures. Plus the idea of Song of the Dryads comboed with Thespian's Stage brings me joy thinking about it. With all that said, life hasn't allowed me to play with the new changes...
On the chopping block right now is Hibernation's End it is slow and super clunky. I saw someone talking about possibly trying out Sandwurm Convergence. If anyone tried it out, how was it?
I would like to thank aslidsiksoraksi for sharing this deck list (I mean gift) as you have fully converted me onto the ways of mono-green control.
Welcome to the thread! Boseiju, Who Shelters All would be a good inclusion if you rely on winning with spells. I've think I'm the one suggesting Life from the Loam and it's amazing. I try to max out on lands that go to the grave - I play every legal cycling land, Sylvan Safekeeper, Crop Rotation, and I've actually added Dust Bowl, though I tend to thread lightly with that one. I play a decent amount of recursion too, so dredging is almost always a pretty good thing.
I like Songs of the Dryads too, being able to hit neutralize everything is something I'm never nohappy to do in monogreen.
I see you've noticed that the deck can become a target - that's true, once people realize how hard you are to kill with a Glacial Chasm in play, they may start ganging up on you... But I think the deck can handle it! I love that Revelation worked as a political tool, I had mostly thought of it from a pro-active standpoint, but what you say makes a ton of sense. Another thing that might happen is that if people see that you don't have a ton going on, they'll likely leave you alone.
Yeah Hibernation's End I think has been on the block for a while, it's time to cut it. I've played Sandwurm Convergence and I love it. The no-attacks by flying thing doesn't come up a ton, but it does help against various Voltron people (I bet it would have been a beating against Aurelia too). Spitting out a 5/5 every turn though is awesome, it really makes people think twice before swinging at you. Plus it's just such a cool card, how can you not play it?
Preferred Selection is a cool one. You could also go for Mirri's Guile or Abundance if you want that kind of effect. Guile in particular I'd say is probably straight out better, though it costs a good deal more money-wise. And of course there's always Sylvan Library.
Again, glad you're enjoying MonoGreen Control, posts like yours are the reason I wrote the primer in the first place Go out there and rock them like a Hurricane!
Hello, rogerandover and aslidsiksoraksi. Thank you both for the warm welcome.
I want to tread lightly on the number of non-basics because Primal Order really lets me hit those greedy land bases.
I have been toying with the idea (from your primer) of using Realms Uncharted with Life from the Loam to get the ball rolling on the cycle lands (is the new cycle land worth running too?). Or, will it take too much set up to get the package online and functioning? I ask cause, I don't have the opportunity to try it out in these coming weeks and love hearing other people's opinions. Everyone see things in a different light, sometimes I get bogged down by tiny details, and sometimes I miss the big picture - it's a curse . I mostly want increased draw power! There is something to be said when I am out drawing the blue players already without these changes.
About Sandwurm Convergence, I am excited because I think it is a really cool card too. I feel that 8 mana is not hard for the deck to pull off AND it is an enchantment!! You are right, it can also be a win-con. I was only thinking of the protection benefits for Nissa, Sage Animist. I think I am going to go ahead and slot it in.
I LOVE this deck because the cards in the deck are things I normally never play with! The fact that we use a lot of enchantments and cool lands is the icing on the cake. Not many people slot a lot of enchant/land hate (just one or two).
Yeah! If you want another cool card, btw, you could try Bind. It is a green counterspell, and no one sees it coming, you can get so many cool interactions and it can stop some combos flat (and that flavor text, c'mon now, could totally see Nissa saying that). Plus most land destruction out there is stuff like Ghost Quarter or Strip Mine. If they go to Quarter your Glacial Chasm and you Bind... oh man I can see my opponent's face now
I agree, Sandwurm Convergence probably be mostly protection, but still cool if you can win with it. I played it in a different deck and won with it while having a Stasis lock, that was a spicy game
Depending on how you want to go, you might actually cut Primal Order... I find that often it is kind of slow and paints a target on you since no one likes being hit in that kind of every-turn non-interactive way. Depends on your meta though, if you're regularly getting 4-5 dmg a turn out of it then it's a p solid clock. But if it's more like 2-3 then maybe not worth it.
I think I dropped a tear, when I removed Primal Order, but I was just slowly adding more and more non-basics, until only 18 out of 36 were basics. It had to go. A lot of my control lies in the manabase. Glacial Chasm, Homeward Path (yes, i hate Bribery and other steal effects. Being able to tutor up this land after someones steals something good, is a great feeling!), Maze of Ith, Yavemaya Hollow, Winding Canyons, etc. I actually run Rogue's Passage just in the case I have to win with Kamalh (my commander) alone, Voltron-style.
Regarding Life from the Loam, I think you need to max out on the cyclers to make it worth while. Sometimes it will just sit in your hand, with nothing to return, but when you are able to return that Chasm, someone just destroyed, it'll all be worth it. Adding cyclers just makes it more consistent. And yeah, I'd say the new cycleland is worth it. It's almost the same as Slippery Karst, in monogreen it would say they are equal. Realms Uncharted just makes Life from the Loam even better. Usually you get the two lands you'd want the least, but having Ramunap Excavator or LftL makes up for that.
(This is what I run, that goes to the grave by themselves: Blasted Landscape, Desert of the Indomitable, Slippery Karst, Tranquil Thicket, Blighted Woodland and Myriad Landscape.)
Becuase of these new post, I wanted to take my Mono Green Control for a spin (havn't been playing with it that much lately, but more with my creaturebased Mono Green Control deck lol). Got into a 4-player game, against Obzedat life-gain, Grenzo Relentless Rats and Surrak goodstuff. I didn't have much during the first period of the game. Ramping, getting out Vedalken Orrery and Sylvan LIbrary. I got beaten down to 19, when someone attacked and I flashed in Patron of the Orochi. Now the Relentless Rats got going and had about 6-7 rats in play, beating heavily on Surrak, which did everything he could to neutralize the rats, with no effect. Meanwhile the Obzedat gained a lot of life (a litte over 60), setting up a fort with Ghostly Prison, watching Surrak and Rats take each other out. The Rats got down to about 10 life, but Obzedat had Chalice of Death so he was sure he'd win, since I hadn't done anything but playing lands. With Rats about to take his turn at 7 life, I Unravel the Aether Obzedats Ghostly Prison, so he could swing with 8 9/9 rats. He instead Mutilate's the board for 7, which would also take out my Patron. Obzedats boards goes away, but I flash in Kamalh, Fist of Krosa and pump two times. My turn play Titania's Song, to get rid of the Chalice, and play Nacatl War-Pride. Obzedat plays some enchantment on Kamalh so I can't use his ability, plays Gray Merchant of Ashphodel killing the Rats. He laughs and pass the turn. But I finally picks up that Nissa, Vital Force which I've been avoiding for most of the game, play it to bring back Songs of the Drayds targetting the enchantment on Kamahl. Then animate six of his lands before attacking with 10 War-Prides and some other creatures that all get +3/+3 and trample, dealing a total of 96 damage. Ah, I love this deck
Ps. I had Life from the Loam in my hand for almost the entire game, with only one cycle land in the grave...
Glad you're having success with it! You're 100% correct. I guess in multiplayer I always want to be able to encourage people to attack other people, and having fogged already makes that pointless. Though to be honest, you can usually tell if they're gonna come for you and respond as you mention by fogging during their upkeep. Plus Hall of Gemstones doesn't effect Spike Weaver at all. There's also the hate factor, as Roger mentioned - the card shuts down a lot of decks pretty hard, stopping them from playing their generals and making it very difficult for them to have productive turns. That's why it's good, of course, but it's a double-edged sword.
I like Ritual of Subdual because you can get around it with the Wild Growth and so on. It slows everything down, including yourself. But once you hit the mid-late game, the deck is essentially stopping all damage from coming through and just needs to build up enough mana to Hurricane everyone out or get a few turns in with Emrakul, the Promised End. So that's what the ritual is there for, to buy those turns with extra protection against any interference. I play it over Freyalise's Winds because I don't have ways to make the winds asymmetrical (if your general was Patron of the Orochi, for example, you could get a lot of milage out of it). So Winds just slows me down a ton too.
I like Roger's idea with the land package, have been building that in too but haven't had a chance to play the deck very much lately so I can't say a ton about it. Life from the Loam and the cycling lands seems great, and Crucible of Worlds plus Strip Mine or Wasteland also, especially as there are so many ways to play more lands in a turn.
If you're playing on MTGO, just out of curiosity, are you playing 1v1 or multiplayer?
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Mana Bloom and Holistic Wisdom are both bugged online so I can't play them. I've been using Oracle of Mul Daya and Season's Past in their place. SP is awesome by the way.
I'll get my exact deck list up eventually. I will say that in the 20 plus decks I have online, for multiplayer this is by far the funnest.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=454137
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=454137
Or the code is [deck] to start[deck] with a / before deck to finish. If i just type it it will think i'm posting a list, so this is the easiest way to illustrate.
Please note I've only played this online and meta choices have more to do with really popular commanders.
The deck is AWESOME! Just like it says on the first page, "If you like control and don't wanna be that guy with the counterspells." This deck is for you. Probably too much build up for a deck that only has 13 changes. Without further ado
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Ramp (18) 20
0 Blighted Woodland
1 Exploration
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
2 Nature's Lore
2 Gaea's Touch
2 Fertile Ground
3 Far Wanderings
3 Overgrowth
3 Early Harvest
3 Yavimaya Elder
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Vernal Bloom
6 Caged Sun
6 Mana Reflection
7 Boundless Realms
7 Zendikar Resurgent
Draw/Tutors (14) 15
1 Crop Rotation
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
2 Sylvan Scrying
2 Argothian Enchantress
2 Verduran Enchantress
3 Tireless Tracker
3 Krosan Tusker
3 Viridian Revel
3 Enchantress's Presence
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Seer's Sundial
4 Harmonize
5 Primal Command
0 Dark Depths
0 Thespian’s Stage
1 Hurricane
2 Squall Line
7 Avenger of Zendikar
Recursion (6)
1 Wildest Dreams
2 Regrowth
2 Nostalgic Dreams
3 Eternal Witness
5 Genesis
6 Season's Past
Utility (16)15
0 Reliquary Tower
0 High Market
0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Lignify
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Beast Within
3 Lifegift
3 Song of the Dryad
4 Calming Verse
4 Creeping Corrosion
4 Cyclone
4 Slice in Twain
4 Titania's Song
5 Acidic Slime
5 Tornado
0 Maze of Ith
0 Glacial Chasm
0 Drownyard Temple
1 Elephant Grass
2 Constant Mists
2 Moment's Peace
3 Forcefield
4 Spike Weaver
5 Orbs of Warding
5 Asceticism
8 Platinum Emperion
Basic Lands (29)
0 Forest
First I'll go over the Take Outs. Sol Ring Revelation Mana Bloom Holistic Wisdom The ring is banned, Revelation isn't available online and the other two are bugged.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Played a lot of games with very few permanents and was getting low values. Also, I never once wanted to get it with a tutor so I took it out.
Nissa's Pilgrimage I wanted an effect that brought no more then one land into play to be cheaper. Getting the lands in hand Nissa already does just fine and I'd rather play of turn three.
Burnished Hart needed to cut ramp for more pillow type effects.
Preferred Selection Too slow. I wanted Big Brother Library.
Krosan Grip Just preferred Slice in Twain.
Hibernation's End Again too slow. When I got any value, there where always creatures I wanted 4 turns ealier--or I already played the card. If I test this again, there will be an addition paired with it that adds counters or something of that nature so I can really get value out of it.
Goblin Charbelcher I'd be lying if I said this card didn't win me games. It's just not in the way I wanted them to. Mostly hitting creatures that were giving me problems, like spot removal. I had one game I took ALL the forest out of my deck via bounty, cast and activated Goblin Charbelcher twice that same turn and couldn't kill someone at 20ish life. I would play this card with less variance aka 86ing the non basics.
Emrakul, the Promised End I've cast him about 10 times. 10 Times is also the number of times the person I targeted conceding before it resolved. Several times, the rest of the players quit as well. I feel like they forget we're online and don't want me to tough their expensive stuff. HA! I also found it in my hand and playing it would make me a target when I didn't want it, or didn't move my game. Really don't want to cast unless you really need help from other decks to finish the job for you.
Sapseep Foreset Needed spot for a non basic. Could still put it back in.
Ritual of Subdual Tested just the one effect. Tested multiples of this effect. I needed more time before becoming the target. I really wanted to play a mana doubler at 6. Really anything that helps me and doesn't piss everyone off. politics
As for the Additions I wanted more pillow fort type effects. This is why I added 4 more total.
Platinum Emperion I wanted something else that I can pair with Hurricane type effects. Card is neat, unlike some situations with glacial chasm where I'm going off and can't play another land that turn. I can just drop big daddy and go. Also pairs well with the next addition Asceticism
Asceticism Pairs with patinum making platinum really hard to deal with since many of sweepers don't beat it. Almost all of our creatures hit before 5, having something that makes them harder to kill ensures we get some value.
Orbs of Warding First, I tested this card just to pair with the next in a pillow fort type lock down. Then, just playing it by itself I got to see all the goodness. It shuts down popular commanders like Nekusar, the Mindrazer or Gonti, Lord of Luxury. It helps when decks are going wide to take off some damage. There have just been so many situations where a player cast a spell and I go "OH NO!" then I realize I have hexproof and go "%^$& Yeah!"
Forcefield I probably wouldn't be testing if not for it being cheap online. Pairing it with Orbs of Warding gives me a lock for most go tall strategies. There has been a lot of times where I can gain plenty of life but just lose to commander damage I just can't stop. This limits that damage.
As for Utility, five new additions here.
Acidic Slime I like that it makes green sun's zenith better. I wanted more spot removal and the ability to destroy a land. I know how pesky they can be. Pairs well with Genesis
Song of the Dryad I just needed more of this effect. Plus again, I can get a land.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All Not being able to play your hurricane effect is horrible. Starring at a couple of islands becomes less miserable when you have access to this.
Reliquary Tower This deck sometime gets the point you are discarding cards you want just because you can get it back later if you need it with your recursion spells. I just want to avoid discarding if I can.
Slice in Twain I wanted more out of this effect. And since I dropped one draw spell from the original build, this kind of helps make up for it.
Only one new card in recursion.
Season's Past I needed a replacement for Holistic Wisdom and honestly, when the bug is fixed I'll probably play both. These cards make it so much easier to go against a white deck and not be afraid of Austere Command etc. SP gets a lot of cards including Glacial Chasm
The next I listed as a Win CON.
Avenger of Zendikar But honestly it may be more of a pillow fort I can get with green sun's zenith. He's def a clock and something that needs to be dealt with. Any deck that's playing Boundless Realms should be playing this big boy as a back up win con.
DRAW
Sylvan Library Just an upgrade. I want this effect asap and it gets stronger with Eidolon of Blossoms and Oracle of Mul Daya
Ramp
Oracle of Mul Daya This card was mentioned in the primer and although the power level is high, it doesn't draw hate for what I'm doing. With the addition of Asceticism I'm getting plenty of value. Helps with our commander. I love it.
Mana Reflection I can't get enough of this effect. I pretty much get it and win. Multiple times I've chained one or two of these effects into a Early Harvest and it's good game. Having too much many is never a problem with this deck. Especially when we're running combos like
Forcefield and Orbs of Warding.
Nature's Lore This card is an easy cut. Kind of a replacement for mana bloom. I like the idea of a turn two play that helps us early and triggers Nissa, Vastwood Seer and Seer's Sundial late.
May be leaving soon.
These are cards I'm going to keep testing, but haven't impressed me.
Primal Command I need to cast it more. I like this card better in 1 V 1. Drawing early can seem dead as you are trying to not be a target early.
High Market Tucking isn't a thing online. The only reason I really like it is with Genesis.
Cyclone Kinda slow. The one time I dropped it on turn three and dropped a glacial chasm it was nice. I think part of the reason I keep it is because if you are powering through with your creatures as engines, it makes good Wildest Dreams and Nostalgic Dreams fodder.
ROCK STAR
Tornado I just want to shout out to the awesomeness that is Tornado. This card has got me out of soooooo many tough spots. It is such a powerful effect. I can't say enough good things.
Well, that's my current take. I'll keep it updated as I play more.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=454137
Your list looks great to me, and a lot of your cuts are my pet cards or cards I agree are sub-optimal, and a lot of your adds are the things I'd add if I were making it more competitive. I should update the list up front, I actually cut Burnished Hart and Preferred Selection myself. Totally agree on Goblin Charbelcher - I like that it give us a way to remove creatures, since that is sorely lacking in green, but it is really hit or miss and as a win con it takes a lot of setup. Hibernation's End is really slow and could easily be cut.
I am surprised that you're not getting a ton of mileage out of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx though, it usually taps for at least 6 or so when I play it. It's not Cabal Coffers levels of good, but it does seem better than a basic most of the time.
Of your adds the most interesting I think is the Platinum Emperion idea, with Asceticism for backup. I never thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense and I like it as an additional protection piece that also protects against non-combat damage and so he can save us from Hurricane. Plus he can be recurred with Genesis and tutored with Primal Command.
Orbs of Warding seemed expensive for its effect, but I did think of adding it in. Glad it's working out for you, maybe I'll give it more of a try myself. Boseiju, who Shelters All, Reliquary Tower, Oracle of Mul Daya, Song of The Dryads, Sylvan Library, Mana Reflection all go in my would-make-the-deck-more-competitive list, all solid inclusions.
Don't know about Avenger of Zendikar, it's obviously good, and I guess one attack-based win con won't spoil the theme too much, haha.
It's a real shame you can't run Holistic Wisdom as it is really good. Seasons Past is a great card too though, and arguably better in that it does everything all at once. I like the wisdom for recurring the same effect over and over.
With regard to your maybes, I'd say that Cyclone is easily cuttable. It's kind of cool, but really slow and kills your own enchantresses while also tapping down your lands. High Market I think is good just because there's pretty low opportunity cost in cutting a forest, and as you mention it is really good with Genesis. I've won games by using it save creatures from exile effects, or using it to recur Emrakul, the Promised End, and it might be even better for you since you have Acidic Slime. I'm surprised to see Primal Command on the chopping block though. Most of the time it's a creature tutor and possibly graveyard hate. If you want a faster tutor you could just run Worldly Tutor to get the early enchantress, and that might be the better card overall.
Have you tried out Roger's sick Power Conduit tech with Tornado??
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
About Cyclone I actually like it very much, and it have been eating a lot of removal to my own surprise. It takes down many utility creatures, and since I play Kamahl, it can be targeted land removal (so yeah, maybe thats one of the reasons it gets targeted).
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
In any case, while we're talking about HOU, the whole set is out now and so here is my long-awaited set review (I won't deal with cards that are obvious draft fodder or are designed for creature-heavy strategies):
Hour of Promise: see above
Nissa's Defeat: Wow don't play this unless you're profoundly masochistic or enjoy strange ironies. Really just a sad card.
Uncage the Menagerie: Not totally bad actually. Set at 3 it gets you three card-draw creatures. Or Eternal Witness to do it all again. Set at 2 it gets one enchantress and Scavenging Ooze which is not too bad either. Set at 4 it gets you fogs and enchantress. I think it could be useful as it is always at least a 2-for-1 and gives access to whatever we need, be it card draw, protection, recursion, or win cons. Drawback is it's kind of expensive and probably takes up the whole turn you cast it.
Ramunap Extractor: I'd rather have Crucible of Worlds but then again I'd rather pay my rent. And also this one is tutorable with creature tutors. I don't think Crucible effects are at their very best here, but it wouldn't be hard to throw in the relevant nonbasics and go down that path.
Mirage Mirror: I kind of like this in the way I like all kind of weird effects that I don't really know where to put. We have the mana to use it (though it can only be used once a turn, which is kind of un-great). Could be good for doing random things? I dunno but I'm interested by it. One extra cool interaction is that if you copy Tornado you'll get a few blasts with a lesser life payment. Or if you copy Sandwurm Convergence you'll get twice the sandwurms. Most of all though I think you'll be copying your opponent's stuff for random interactions, which is usually fun, though probably not the best way to win in a competitive environment.
Dagger of the Worthy: Look if you equip this to Nissa, and then attack 6 times, while also never playing that 7th land, and your opponent does not block or disrupt you in any way, you will win the game. AUTO-INCLUDE
Desert of the Indomitable: one more cycling land can't be that bad. ETB tap is bad of course, but if you're into the Life from the Loam package, you could do worse than throwing this in there.
Nissa, Genesis Mage: Big and slow and dumb version for n00bs. That is my official assessment.
KAPOW! and there you have it. Any thoughts on the set welcome! I think the two most exciting cards are easily Hour of Promise and Uncage the Menagerie. Both probably decent options worth trying out, though neither are so powerful you'd be a fool not to run them.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I think I can agree on your thoughts. I'm definitely getting Hour of Promise, Uncage the Menagerie and Rumanap Excavator, and yeah, Im also slotting in the cycling desert. The tutor will only find a home in the creature-build im making, but I see great potential for it.
Mirage Mirror seems like a really fun card. I have a mono brown deck, and it goes in there no matter what. It's' going to be lovely copying all sorts of things in a deck, that only plays artifacts. That said, I could see it being in a lot of other decks, but I think you should be able to abuse it more and wrap the deck a bit around it, before it will be great. But it's just super versatile!
I actually rather have Rumanap Excavator over Crucible, since it's way easier to tutor for in green and also to recur it.
Secondly, There’s been a few big changes since your HoD update. Mainly the planeswalker rule (we can now board more Nissas), C17 and Ixalan. Any thoughts on how they might impact the list? I think Vital Force’s ability to recur from the graveyard and her draw cards when you play land emblem are both very strong in this build.
I have actually been wanting to comment on the recent sets aswell (mostly to get aslidsiksoraksi to talk, lol), but then i actually had nothing to add, since Ixalan didn't have anything to add to my deck. Not that it didn't bring anything good though. I absolutely love the new DFC's, and Growing Rites of Itlimoc is a welcomed version of Cradle for my creaturebased MGC-deck. I would love a real Cradle, but i intend to bring food to the table instead
In other news, Ramunap Excavator have been great. I've added every playable cycling-land, have a bunch of other lands that sac, and replaying them feels great. I've also added Realm Seekers. I know they are pretty expensive, but they get ridiculously big, and if they stick, they secure a landdrop of any kind. It just eats removal too fast, lol.
I agree with you, Wizard of Foz that Nissa, Vital Force is a great card. I havn't gotten one IRL, but she's in my decklist @cockatrice. Sadly, I havn't had much experience with her, but i'm almost never unhappy to see her. Getting that emblem is sick, though!
I bought a couple of Ixalan prerelease packs the other day (couldn't attend but my LGS was happy to sell me some after the fact) and my wife pulled Growing Rites of Itlimoc. I pulled nothing of significance. Her exact words were 'I want to give it to you, but it's way too good.' Definitely after a copy for my Nissa iteration if I can get it though. The other card I've had my eye on is Shapers' Sanctuary. Great value for a one drop.
Here's a review of the recent sets. Unfortunately, Wizards many years ago decided green=creatures, so they don't really show a lot of love to the creature-light version I run. still, lets take a look.
Commander 2017
Same goes for artifacts - they're all equipments or based on a tribal theme...
Didn't really expect much tbh but still kind of disapointing.
Growing Rites of Itlimoc: again could be cool in the creature-oriented versions. Provides filtering, and I imagine flipping it won't be too hard. I think Toc plays a more creature-y version, so maybe he could say better how many creatures he often has in play and whether this would be worth it.
Ripjaw Raptor: man I really like this card but I don't know if it fits here. Could be a good blocker? Probably not good enough and we don't have any good way to abuse it. If you played a Sekki, Seasons' Guide version of MonoGreen Control with all the sweet combo finishes that involve pinging though... Might just have to explore that route, haha
Shaper's Sanctuary: again interesting, but there are probably better things to do. Mirri's Guile seems stronger, especially as in many games my only creatures are Nissa and Enchantresses. Don't like depending on my opponents. If you play a lot of creatures, usually it's wraths that I'd worry about.
Waker of the Wilds: this guy could work as a finisher. We make tons of mana, and Hurricane is classy and all, but with this we can animate just one monster land (so we don't get blown out by wraths) and can keep doing it over and over. Worth a try I'd say.
Blinding Fog: if you wanted a more flexible fog, could use this? It lacks recursion though
Crushing Canopy: I know they have Crushing Vines... why don't they just make a modal disenchant that kills flying creatures??? I like the idea of having straight-out creature removal, even if it is conditional. Probably not good enough though, especially as flying creatures already have answers in Hurricane and co.
Ancient Brontodon: c'mon so much style points. Imagine Nissa just wandering the Vastwood on one of these. Tell me it's not amazing.
Thaumatic Compass: easy to flip. turns into Maze of Ith and finds you lands. Might actually be better than the Maze since it finds you lands; the problem with Maze is that its a land drop and doesn't tap for mana. Could try swapping them and seeing how it feels.
Primal Amulet: we have a decent number of instants and sorceries, so could flip this and benefit from its front side, especially if you don't do the enchantress thing (I think Roger, your list is creature-light but also not enchantress, so maybe extra good for you?). Flip side makes the Hurricane kill a lot easier, so I'd put this on the maybe pile.
Overall the cards probably most worth thinking about I'd say are Thaumatic Compass, Waker of Wilds, and Primal Amulet. None are super amazing, but hey.
The planeswalker rule is very good for us, I agree that Nissa, Vital Force should be in the deck. All her abilities are good, and she even makes blockers! Plus she has, in my opinion, the best Nissa art. Now, what to cut...
I don't play Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator, so I'm afraid I can't be a ton of help on those. I don't like Excavator just for being a creature - makes him too fragile in my mind. Crucible I don't play because it's expensive ($-wise) and sends a message like "I play for keeps"; not really my style, like it says on the primer, I'm a more 75% person. The effect on both is definitely great, so either card could be very good, but that's my story. Realm Seekers is a spicy one! Glad it's working
Welcome to the MonoGreen Control world Wizard of Foz!! Glad you're enjoying the deck, and thanks for posting and reminding me to update this whole thing (I've updated the first post as well). I like to think we're a kind of tight-knit community here, so if you have any questions or suggestions do let us know
(couldn't resist)
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Yes, Growing Rites of Itlimoc will pretty much flip immediately for my iteration. I run ways to make sure this is the case (Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Arhcitect of the Untamed, Hornet Queen, ummm....Nissa, Vastwood Seer...) so it'll be nuts immediately. I probably wouldn't play the card unless I'm sure it flips straight away, but as I say I can make sure that's the case quite easily.
Thaumatic Compass seems a good add to my mind too. It flips at the same time as Nissa, Vastwood Seer too, so it's pretty much made to be in here.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Game 1:
My friend playing Aurelia, the Warleader had an indestructible field and proceeded in wiping out the table. Then he got to me, Glacial Chasm and Constant Mists are all-stars because they saved my butt so many times that game. I drew into Squall Lineand with the power of mana doublers, nuked him for the win.
Game 2:
Now, that everyone had an idea on how the deck worked it became more challenging. A card that really surprised me was Revelation. The table got spooked and everyone was thinking of a group effort way to suppress the deck. At first, I thought this card was useless when I first saw it...Then I played it. It lead to an interesting revelation on my part. The Prossh, Skyraider of Kher player at the table had a pretty alarming hand. All thoughts on suppressing the deck and I were forgotten. I thought to myself the political power this card holds is incredible!!!
Although, I was temporarily forgotten the blue players held up counters for Squall Line and Hurricane. A side note, I cannot say enough good things about the decks recursion package!! Nostalgic Dreams allowed me to recur and decimate my competitors after they thought they had neutered the deck.
Changes
Since playing my friends I made some changes like adding Boseiju, Who Shelters All for those pesky blue mages. After reading someone's suggestion on the usage of Life from the Loam and cycle lands, I got more excited. I also, threw in Life from the Loam and the two old cycle lands. I replaced Preferred Selection figuring if I have a problem I will just dig for a solution. I replaced Lignify with Song of the Dryads because my group is really, really efficient at killing creatures. Plus the idea of Song of the Dryads comboed with Thespian's Stage brings me joy thinking about it. With all that said, life hasn't allowed me to play with the new changes...
On the chopping block right now is Hibernation's End it is slow and super clunky. I saw someone talking about possibly trying out Sandwurm Convergence. If anyone tried it out, how was it?
I would like to thank aslidsiksoraksi for sharing this deck list (I mean gift) as you have fully converted me onto the ways of mono-green control.
Welcome to the thread!
Boseiju, Who Shelters All would be a good inclusion if you rely on winning with spells. I've think I'm the one suggesting Life from the Loam and it's amazing. I try to max out on lands that go to the grave - I play every legal cycling land, Sylvan Safekeeper, Crop Rotation, and I've actually added Dust Bowl, though I tend to thread lightly with that one. I play a decent amount of recursion too, so dredging is almost always a pretty good thing.
I like Songs of the Dryads too, being able to hit neutralize everything is something I'm never nohappy to do in monogreen.
I see you've noticed that the deck can become a target - that's true, once people realize how hard you are to kill with a Glacial Chasm in play, they may start ganging up on you... But I think the deck can handle it! I love that Revelation worked as a political tool, I had mostly thought of it from a pro-active standpoint, but what you say makes a ton of sense. Another thing that might happen is that if people see that you don't have a ton going on, they'll likely leave you alone.
Boseiju, who shelters all seems like it would fit in well for your meta. Song of the Dryads is definitely better than Lignify in most situations, I'd say. So probably a good call overall.
Yeah Hibernation's End I think has been on the block for a while, it's time to cut it. I've played Sandwurm Convergence and I love it. The no-attacks by flying thing doesn't come up a ton, but it does help against various Voltron people (I bet it would have been a beating against Aurelia too). Spitting out a 5/5 every turn though is awesome, it really makes people think twice before swinging at you. Plus it's just such a cool card, how can you not play it?
Preferred Selection is a cool one. You could also go for Mirri's Guile or Abundance if you want that kind of effect. Guile in particular I'd say is probably straight out better, though it costs a good deal more money-wise. And of course there's always Sylvan Library.
Again, glad you're enjoying MonoGreen Control, posts like yours are the reason I wrote the primer in the first place Go out there and rock them like a Hurricane!
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I want to tread lightly on the number of non-basics because Primal Order really lets me hit those greedy land bases.
I have been toying with the idea (from your primer) of using Realms Uncharted with Life from the Loam to get the ball rolling on the cycle lands (is the new cycle land worth running too?). Or, will it take too much set up to get the package online and functioning? I ask cause, I don't have the opportunity to try it out in these coming weeks and love hearing other people's opinions. Everyone see things in a different light, sometimes I get bogged down by tiny details, and sometimes I miss the big picture - it's a curse . I mostly want increased draw power! There is something to be said when I am out drawing the blue players already without these changes.
About Sandwurm Convergence, I am excited because I think it is a really cool card too. I feel that 8 mana is not hard for the deck to pull off AND it is an enchantment!! You are right, it can also be a win-con. I was only thinking of the protection benefits for Nissa, Sage Animist. I think I am going to go ahead and slot it in.
I LOVE this deck because the cards in the deck are things I normally never play with! The fact that we use a lot of enchantments and cool lands is the icing on the cake. Not many people slot a lot of enchant/land hate (just one or two).
I agree, Sandwurm Convergence probably be mostly protection, but still cool if you can win with it. I played it in a different deck and won with it while having a Stasis lock, that was a spicy game
I like the Realms Uncharted idea. It is good enough on its own because a lot of lands are ok in the graveyard (e.g. Drownyard Temple). Plus you can get the stuff back with a lot of cards other than Life from the Loam - Holistic Wisdom, Nostalgic Dreams... Might run all the cycle lands if I went that way, the more the better. Don't forget Blasted Landscape!
Depending on how you want to go, you might actually cut Primal Order... I find that often it is kind of slow and paints a target on you since no one likes being hit in that kind of every-turn non-interactive way. Depends on your meta though, if you're regularly getting 4-5 dmg a turn out of it then it's a p solid clock. But if it's more like 2-3 then maybe not worth it.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Regarding Life from the Loam, I think you need to max out on the cyclers to make it worth while. Sometimes it will just sit in your hand, with nothing to return, but when you are able to return that Chasm, someone just destroyed, it'll all be worth it. Adding cyclers just makes it more consistent. And yeah, I'd say the new cycleland is worth it. It's almost the same as Slippery Karst, in monogreen it would say they are equal. Realms Uncharted just makes Life from the Loam even better. Usually you get the two lands you'd want the least, but having Ramunap Excavator or LftL makes up for that.
(This is what I run, that goes to the grave by themselves: Blasted Landscape, Desert of the Indomitable, Slippery Karst, Tranquil Thicket, Blighted Woodland and Myriad Landscape.)
Ps. I had Life from the Loam in my hand for almost the entire game, with only one cycle land in the grave...