Thanks for an awesome list. I'm making my own list right now, and I'm really curious to see how this turns out.
Just have to find something to replace Phyrexian Dreadnought... (my main commander budget is tied up in other things)
I do have a (very old) Natural Order lying somewhere, so that's in. Is Craterhoof Behemoth the only green creature worth searching up with it, or is something like Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger also with including? Also, what are your thoughts on Patron of the Orochi?
Thanks for an awesome list. I'm making my own list right now, and I'm really curious to see how this turns out.
Just have to find something to replace Phyrexian Dreadnought... (my main commander budget is tied up in other things)
I do have a (very old) Natural Order lying somewhere, so that's in. Is Craterhoof Behemoth the only green creature worth searching up with it, or is something like Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger also with including? Also, what are your thoughts on Patron of the Orochi?
Replace phyrexian dreadnought? It's irreplaceable, and the best card in the deck. The mirage one isn't too expensive and I'd definitely do whatever I could to get that card if I were you.
My most common target using natural order is probably terastodon. I'm often in trouble dealing with combo stuff. Vorinclex is great and I considered putting him in, but he just wasn't quite synergistic enough for me. Patron of the orochi isn't a creature I used before and he's not bad, especially if you're on a budget. I know those eldrazi are expensive. If I was making a budget version of this deck, I'd probably put some hydras in. There's a few good ones.
Public Mod Note
(cryogen):
Infraction for trolling
I remember when I thought turning sideways was a bad way to beat three people...
What's your avg clock for claiming board if youre forced to go for the removal game like Terrastodon? Resolving leader t3 off a dork doesn't always mean you'll be the furthest ahead. Can you manage to grab a reclamation sage along the way? I just know I've won after being hit by 1/3 of Terrastodon, as well as a few 2/3. Is the lack of Bane of Progress a meta choice or does the lack of constant tutor limit the toolbox?
I remember when I thought turning sideways was a bad way to beat three people...
What's your avg clock for claiming board if youre forced to go for the removal game like Terrastodon? Resolving leader t3 off a dork doesn't always mean you'll be the furthest ahead. Can you manage to grab a reclamation sage along the way? I just know I've won after being hit by 1/3 of Terrastodon, as well as a few 2/3. Is the lack of Bane of Progress a meta choice or does the lack of constant tutor limit the toolbox?
Usually the deck will win turn 4/5. I tend to stay away from creatures like Terastodon, Hornet Queen, and Craterhoof because they are very clunky if you draw them and in most cases we will win the game before getting to verse 7/8.
Typical lines of play are Verse 1 = Quirion Ranger, Verse 2 = Priest of Titania, Verse 3 = Anything, Verse 4 = Temur, Verse 5 = Seedborn, Verse 6 = Woodland -> Wirewood and we can generate infinite mana at this point. Our Verse 3 can be anything so if we need Rec sage then that will be the tutor. Typically I tutor for Fierce Empath -> Woodland -> Wirewood which will let us win much earlier.
I remember when I thought turning sideways was a bad way to beat three people...
What's your avg clock for claiming board if youre forced to go for the removal game like Terrastodon? Resolving leader t3 off a dork doesn't always mean you'll be the furthest ahead. Can you manage to grab a reclamation sage along the way? I just know I've won after being hit by 1/3 of Terrastodon, as well as a few 2/3. Is the lack of Bane of Progress a meta choice or does the lack of constant tutor limit the toolbox?
Hi. Bane of progress is awesome and definitely worth more consideration. I used it for a while but I found it hurt me more than other people - I have a lot of artifacts and enchantments in there. And it's hard to say what the clock is since it varies a lot by the number of people and how much disruption they're hitting me with.
I face a lot of combos in my meta which makes terastodon a common target for me, but I could see him being replaced by something else in other metas. I also like how much mana selvala makes with him.
There's a LOT of great cards that I'd love to include in this deck and it pains me to cut one card for another. It's hard to say what the right ratio of tutor/ramp/creatures is optimal and how much focus to put toward combo or aggro. I'm pretty heavily focused on aggro because I eat a lot of removal in my playgroup and it's pretty easy to disrupt combos and stall if I'm too combo-oriented.
Let me tell you. I really tried, but this deck does not fare well in a cutthroat meta.
I got really disheartened yesterday after my first few games with Selvala.
Game 1:
I resolve T2 Selvala, and T3 Big Green Critter (I think Soul of the Harvest).
Opponent1 T3: Lol. Destroy all nonbasic lands (I have 1 forest remaining - yey) Opponent 2: destroy all critters. Opponent 1 (with Daretti) Possessed Portal from the Yard. Me: sigh. scoop.
Game 2:
Opponent3: T2 The Abyss, T3 Tangle Wire + some mana rocks T4 Repeating Land Destruction (all scoop)
Etc. Etc. All night long.
I really like the concept of this deck, but I’m afraid it just tries to play too fair (if that means dropping very fast Eldrazi Titans) in a world full of “Not Letting My Opponents Play Magic”.
Yeah that sounds like a tough meta for selvala all right, lol.
I have 7 decks and selvala is probably my 'fairest' one. She's great in 1vs1 but less impressive in a cutthroat meta of 3+ players with lots of destruction and combos.
Do you think Nylea, God of the Hunt is worth it? Gives your dudes trample, allows you kill with infinite mana, and is harder to get rid of than Kamahl.
Throwing this together, but I need to make some temporary changes, just due to what I have on me now. So, these aren't really questions to add to your deck, but if they could even function in the list. Mono green is something I haven't taken seriously yet.
Genesis Hydra I've been a huge fan of this in mono green ramp to get artifact pieces for combos. I did it in a lot more casual of a setting, but it looks like it could at least do something here. I figure with untappers generating 20+ mana isn't too much of a strain.
Yeva, Nature's Herald My one big fear is the inevitable Cyclonic Rift. Is it worth having a slot devoted to something like that? I just know some of the best game ending plays are when someone manages to dodge the rift as opposed to counter it.
Cream of the Crop it's totally a pet card I've always wanted to see work really well. Do you see enough hands of exploding out early where if you got this opening hand it might be worth the two mana?
Finally, is it worth slotting in one more protection card for leader if I see a slightly slower meta? I just know that once certain decks set up, it's hard for green to hold it's pivotal piece on the board.
Do you think Nylea, God of the Hunt is worth it? Gives your dudes trample, allows you kill with infinite mana, and is harder to get rid of than Kamahl.
It's decent. It strikes me as a card that'll be good when you're already doing well, and bad when you're not doing well.
Throwing this together, but I need to make some temporary changes, just due to what I have on me now. So, these aren't really questions to add to your deck, but if they could even function in the list. Mono green is something I haven't taken seriously yet.
Genesis Hydra I've been a huge fan of this in mono green ramp to get artifact pieces for combos. I did it in a lot more casual of a setting, but it looks like it could at least do something here. I figure with untappers generating 20+ mana isn't too much of a strain.
Yeva, Nature's Herald My one big fear is the inevitable Cyclonic Rift. Is it worth having a slot devoted to something like that? I just know some of the best game ending plays are when someone manages to dodge the rift as opposed to counter it.
Cream of the Crop it's totally a pet card I've always wanted to see work really well. Do you see enough hands of exploding out early where if you got this opening hand it might be worth the two mana?
Finally, is it worth slotting in one more protection card for leader if I see a slightly slower meta? I just know that once certain decks set up, it's hard for green to hold it's pivotal piece on the board.
Of the cards mentioned, I'd say that hydra is the one I like the most. I considered ring of three wishes (and even slate of ancestry since there's so many mana creatures in here - that's been my pet card ever since it was so good in an old elf deck of mine) and it's worth considering. Citanul flute is another card I was looking at.
I don't see yeva doing much. Even after getting hit by cyclonic rift. In fact, I don't mind cyclonic rift playing this deck, it's the boardwipes I hate.
And I'd rather have card draw than cream of the crop.
I found that removing opponents stuff is a necessary in my meta: I got too much pain from Nekusar, Sharuum and Emrakul.
Removed some of my large critters for Krosan Grip, Song of the Dryads, Whirlwind and also some protection from sweepers (got the idea from a Edric list) in the form of Wrap in Vigor.
Let me tell you. I really tried, but this deck does not fare well in a cutthroat meta.
I got really disheartened yesterday after my first few games with Selvala.
Game 1:
I resolve T2 Selvala, and T3 Big Green Critter (I think Soul of the Harvest).
Opponent1 T3: Lol. Destroy all nonbasic lands (I have 1 forest remaining - yey) Opponent 2: destroy all critters. Opponent 1 (with Daretti) Possessed Portal from the Yard. Me: sigh. scoop.
Game 2:
Opponent3: T2 The Abyss, T3 Tangle Wire + some mana rocks T4 Repeating Land Destruction (all scoop)
Etc. Etc. All night long.
I really like the concept of this deck, but I’m afraid it just tries to play too fair (if that means dropping very fast Eldrazi Titans) in a world full of “Not Letting My Opponents Play Magic”.
Have you considered attacking your opponent's mana? Cards like Null Rod, Titania's Song, Seeds of Innocence, Sphere of Resistance, and Bane of Progress make life difficult for fast opening opponents. Orb effects can also be useful in shutting down the board while you have Selvala and a large critter out.
Let me tell you. I really tried, but this deck does not fare well in a cutthroat meta.
I got really disheartened yesterday after my first few games with Selvala.
Game 1:
I resolve T2 Selvala, and T3 Big Green Critter (I think Soul of the Harvest).
Opponent1 T3: Lol. Destroy all nonbasic lands (I have 1 forest remaining - yey) Opponent 2: destroy all critters. Opponent 1 (with Daretti) Possessed Portal from the Yard. Me: sigh. scoop.
Game 2:
Opponent3: T2 The Abyss, T3 Tangle Wire + some mana rocks T4 Repeating Land Destruction (all scoop)
Etc. Etc. All night long.
I really like the concept of this deck, but I’m afraid it just tries to play too fair (if that means dropping very fast Eldrazi Titans) in a world full of “Not Letting My Opponents Play Magic”.
Have you considered attacking your opponent's mana? Cards like Null Rod, Titania's Song, Seeds of Innocence, Sphere of Resistance, and Bane of Progress make life difficult for fast opening opponents. Orb effects can also be useful in shutting down the board while you have Selvala and a large critter out.
Thanks for your suggestions, Swift2210. I'll certainly look into that.
Anyone having ideas on keeping oppponents ramping land in check? It's not uncommon for my opponents having T3 6 lands (+rocks) on the battlefield. I feel like I just can't keep up, even with Selvala mana.
Let me tell you. I really tried, but this deck does not fare well in a cutthroat meta.
I got really disheartened yesterday after my first few games with Selvala.
Game 1:
I resolve T2 Selvala, and T3 Big Green Critter (I think Soul of the Harvest).
Opponent1 T3: Lol. Destroy all nonbasic lands (I have 1 forest remaining - yey) Opponent 2: destroy all critters. Opponent 1 (with Daretti) Possessed Portal from the Yard. Me: sigh. scoop.
Game 2:
Opponent3: T2 The Abyss, T3 Tangle Wire + some mana rocks T4 Repeating Land Destruction (all scoop)
Etc. Etc. All night long.
I really like the concept of this deck, but I’m afraid it just tries to play too fair (if that means dropping very fast Eldrazi Titans) in a world full of “Not Letting My Opponents Play Magic”.
Have you considered attacking your opponent's mana? Cards like Null Rod, Titania's Song, Seeds of Innocence, Sphere of Resistance, and Bane of Progress make life difficult for fast opening opponents. Orb effects can also be useful in shutting down the board while you have Selvala and a large critter out.
Thanks for your suggestions, Swift2210. I'll certainly look into that.
Anyone having ideas on keeping oppponents ramping land in check? It's not uncommon for my opponents having T3 6 lands (+rocks) on the battlefield. I feel like I just can't keep up, even with Selvala mana.
Winter Orb is the obvious pick for slowing land ramp. Tangle Wire and Thorn of Amethyst could also be considered, in addition to Swift's recommendations, if you want more staxxy elements.
I'm thinking now about some of the better Yisan and Edric lists I've seen, and many of those include some light stax, geared to the purpose of sustaining tempo (read: not for locks). I'm not sure the stax would work quite as well here, as those decks supplement the stax with more direct control measures (Yisan: tutoring creature based removal. Edric: counterspells.) Here, with Selvala, the plan looks to be more direct in going over the top of other's plays, rather than interacting with them. Still, some stax might be fine here... worth a shot, at least, if you're struggling. I'd probably start with Null Rod, Winter Orb, and Tangle Wire as an initial suite (in effort to make creature-based mana the only mana... dorks rule, rocks drool), and later consider Sphere of Resistance and Thorn.
Edit: and then I go back to the decklist and realize that Null Rod turns off all our mana rocks (not a big deal with Selvala in play) as well as our equipment and Staff (ouch, wincons). Heh, well this deck really just wants to go over the top, doesn't it? Hmm.
Just have to find something to replace Phyrexian Dreadnought... (my main commander budget is tied up in other things)
I do have a (very old) Natural Order lying somewhere, so that's in. Is Craterhoof Behemoth the only green creature worth searching up with it, or is something like Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger also with including? Also, what are your thoughts on Patron of the Orochi?
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
My most common target using natural order is probably terastodon. I'm often in trouble dealing with combo stuff. Vorinclex is great and I considered putting him in, but he just wasn't quite synergistic enough for me. Patron of the orochi isn't a creature I used before and he's not bad, especially if you're on a budget. I know those eldrazi are expensive. If I was making a budget version of this deck, I'd probably put some hydras in. There's a few good ones.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
That's your plan with this deck and with your Yisan, so I can assume you don't win many games.
Sabertooth is the best creature card in Yisan. It just shows your lack of knowledge of the decktype.
Best of Luck!
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
What's your avg clock for claiming board if youre forced to go for the removal game like Terrastodon? Resolving leader t3 off a dork doesn't always mean you'll be the furthest ahead. Can you manage to grab a reclamation sage along the way? I just know I've won after being hit by 1/3 of Terrastodon, as well as a few 2/3. Is the lack of Bane of Progress a meta choice or does the lack of constant tutor limit the toolbox?
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Usually the deck will win turn 4/5. I tend to stay away from creatures like Terastodon, Hornet Queen, and Craterhoof because they are very clunky if you draw them and in most cases we will win the game before getting to verse 7/8.
Typical lines of play are Verse 1 = Quirion Ranger, Verse 2 = Priest of Titania, Verse 3 = Anything, Verse 4 = Temur, Verse 5 = Seedborn, Verse 6 = Woodland -> Wirewood and we can generate infinite mana at this point. Our Verse 3 can be anything so if we need Rec sage then that will be the tutor. Typically I tutor for Fierce Empath -> Woodland -> Wirewood which will let us win much earlier.
Bane of Progress should be in every mono G deck.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I figured, but I had some time.:)
I face a lot of combos in my meta which makes terastodon a common target for me, but I could see him being replaced by something else in other metas. I also like how much mana selvala makes with him.
There's a LOT of great cards that I'd love to include in this deck and it pains me to cut one card for another. It's hard to say what the right ratio of tutor/ramp/creatures is optimal and how much focus to put toward combo or aggro. I'm pretty heavily focused on aggro because I eat a lot of removal in my playgroup and it's pretty easy to disrupt combos and stall if I'm too combo-oriented.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
I got really disheartened yesterday after my first few games with Selvala.
Game 1:
I resolve T2 Selvala, and T3 Big Green Critter (I think Soul of the Harvest).
Opponent1 T3: Lol. Destroy all nonbasic lands (I have 1 forest remaining - yey) Opponent 2: destroy all critters. Opponent 1 (with Daretti) Possessed Portal from the Yard. Me: sigh. scoop.
Game 2:
Opponent3: T2 The Abyss, T3 Tangle Wire + some mana rocks T4 Repeating Land Destruction (all scoop)
Etc. Etc. All night long.
I really like the concept of this deck, but I’m afraid it just tries to play too fair (if that means dropping very fast Eldrazi Titans) in a world full of “Not Letting My Opponents Play Magic”.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
I have 7 decks and selvala is probably my 'fairest' one. She's great in 1vs1 but less impressive in a cutthroat meta of 3+ players with lots of destruction and combos.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Seriph0 on cockatrice
EDH Decks
WBGKaradorWBG
Genesis Hydra I've been a huge fan of this in mono green ramp to get artifact pieces for combos. I did it in a lot more casual of a setting, but it looks like it could at least do something here. I figure with untappers generating 20+ mana isn't too much of a strain.
Ring of Three Wishes I'd think here 10 mana to demonic tutor isn't too bad.
Yeva, Nature's Herald My one big fear is the inevitable Cyclonic Rift. Is it worth having a slot devoted to something like that? I just know some of the best game ending plays are when someone manages to dodge the rift as opposed to counter it.
Cream of the Crop it's totally a pet card I've always wanted to see work really well. Do you see enough hands of exploding out early where if you got this opening hand it might be worth the two mana?
Finally, is it worth slotting in one more protection card for leader if I see a slightly slower meta? I just know that once certain decks set up, it's hard for green to hold it's pivotal piece on the board.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Of the cards mentioned, I'd say that hydra is the one I like the most. I considered ring of three wishes (and even slate of ancestry since there's so many mana creatures in here - that's been my pet card ever since it was so good in an old elf deck of mine) and it's worth considering. Citanul flute is another card I was looking at.
I don't see yeva doing much. Even after getting hit by cyclonic rift. In fact, I don't mind cyclonic rift playing this deck, it's the boardwipes I hate.
And I'd rather have card draw than cream of the crop.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Removed some of my large critters for Krosan Grip, Song of the Dryads, Whirlwind and also some protection from sweepers (got the idea from a Edric list) in the form of Wrap in Vigor.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Have you considered attacking your opponent's mana? Cards like Null Rod, Titania's Song, Seeds of Innocence, Sphere of Resistance, and Bane of Progress make life difficult for fast opening opponents. Orb effects can also be useful in shutting down the board while you have Selvala and a large critter out.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Thanks for your suggestions, Swift2210. I'll certainly look into that.
Anyone having ideas on keeping oppponents ramping land in check? It's not uncommon for my opponents having T3 6 lands (+rocks) on the battlefield. I feel like I just can't keep up, even with Selvala mana.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Winter Orb is the obvious pick for slowing land ramp. Tangle Wire and Thorn of Amethyst could also be considered, in addition to Swift's recommendations, if you want more staxxy elements.
I'm thinking now about some of the better Yisan and Edric lists I've seen, and many of those include some light stax, geared to the purpose of sustaining tempo (read: not for locks). I'm not sure the stax would work quite as well here, as those decks supplement the stax with more direct control measures (Yisan: tutoring creature based removal. Edric: counterspells.) Here, with Selvala, the plan looks to be more direct in going over the top of other's plays, rather than interacting with them. Still, some stax might be fine here... worth a shot, at least, if you're struggling. I'd probably start with Null Rod, Winter Orb, and Tangle Wire as an initial suite (in effort to make creature-based mana the only mana... dorks rule, rocks drool), and later consider Sphere of Resistance and Thorn.
Edit: and then I go back to the decklist and realize that Null Rod turns off all our mana rocks (not a big deal with Selvala in play) as well as our equipment and Staff (ouch, wincons). Heh, well this deck really just wants to go over the top, doesn't it? Hmm.