I got to wondering if I could make a Zedruu deck where they just sort of mass tax everyone else's life totals while pillowforting themselves. The idea of passing a Manabarbs to someone or a Spellshock sounded super amusing to me as I can draw cards and gain life while everyone else is being run down. You will notice a lot of the things in this list are very heavily defensive as I assume these things will sort of piss people off lol.
So, some things to note, YES, I do have a lot of things I dont want to hand away. I did try to include a good amount of cards that donate well but I also wanted to be able to defend myself and survive when Zedruu is not in play. I assume I will draw hate to my commander because this is after all a Zedruu deck.
I also tried to pack several cards to force attacking while I fort up. In a lot of cases, I have noticed that people stop attacking other players if I am in a good position and they cant attack me. So, I decided to force them to attack each other with a few effects. There are a few more I could consider but in general I felt like some effects like Bident of Thassa were just too narrow considering the trigger on attack probably wont happen for the most part for this deck and Avatar of Slaughter looks too painful for myself to be totally honest. I tried to just sort of put what I felt were some of the better ones into the deck instead.
Moat seems in line with what you want to be doing here. But on the off chance that you don't win the lottery, there's always Magus of the Moat. A lot of your enchantments get better in multiples so I like Copy Enchantment in here as well. I don't know if Angel's Trumpet would actually be good here, but it certainly does encourage attacking and punishes with damage. Citadel of Pain is another way to pile on damage, especially in combination with Manabarbs. Finally, I kind of like the idea of a few creature-lands in the mana base. Faerie Conclave and Celestial Colonnade in particular because they fly and can potentially get in a chip shot here or there. Randomly getting in for 2ish damage definitely isn't huge in 40-life multiplayer, but when your main plan is to nickel and dime the table to death it gets a lot better.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
Moat seems in line with what you want to be doing here. But on the off chance that you don't win the lottery, there's always Magus of the Moat. A lot of your enchantments get better in multiples so I like Copy Enchantment in here as well. I don't know if Angel's Trumpet would actually be good here, but it certainly does encourage attacking and punishes with damage. Citadel of Pain is another way to pile on damage, especially in combination with Manabarbs. Finally, I kind of like the idea of a few creature-lands in the mana base. Faerie Conclave and Celestial Colonnade in particular because they fly and can potentially get in a chip shot here or there. Randomly getting in for 2ish damage definitely isn't huge in 40-life multiplayer, but when your main plan is to nickel and dime the table to death it gets a lot better.
Moat - I do actually own a copy that is not currently in any decks at this moment. When I was first building this list it was in as was Magus of the Moat and Teferi's Moat. In the end, I decided that I wanted to take a different direction than stopping all attacks. In a lot of ways, the cards that stop all attacks also take away the advantage of strong defenses and Propaganda effects because your opponents dont take damage. Its an option but it also goes a very different direction that some of the forced attacks does not have as good of synergy with. It also means that you need to likely kill more people outright rather than just adding up to them dying with effects. I think ideal pillowfort strategies allow opponents to attack still just to make it harder to make that attack on you. Someone with one big good creature for instance might go elsewhere but if I stop them with a moat I then force them to break down my Moat to make any attack. I also considered a lot of other effects similar to this such as Arena of the Ancients and Ensnaring Bridge but in the end I did not want to stop attacks from being made so I ended up cutting these effects out.
Copy Enchantment - Its ok, my goal is not to become an enchantress deck. I have some in here but thats because they donate a bit better than creatures (because they can attack / block). Its an option but honestly I also have a good number of enchantments that dont double up nicely. I think I am ok with not having this just because of its limited use I think I would rather find room for Idealic Tutor to toolbox my enchantments rather than double down on any of them. I have never been too fond of narrow clone effects because they can really sit in hand for a long time.
Angel's Trumpet - its not a bad idea. It does however catch up my defenders in sort of a weird way because they cannot attack so it taps them all down. I dont mind tapping down Zedruu but I guess its one I had not really considered before. I will probably have to think on it to be honest. Its a card I had not considered when I was building it.
Citadel of Pain - its an interesting thought. I did consider it when building but I do like the idea of keeping some mana up for donating things or control spells. I think it could be decent somewhat of on a meta dependent basis assuming there is a lot of control.
Manlands - I just have a hard time justifying the mana to activate them as well as the entering tapped parts of them. I have just seen very few situations that I have liked the idea of paying a colonade to animate as thats a good portion of a turn that turns only into 4 dmg.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Its more of a concept than anything but I got to thinking what if I were to play manabarbs in a pillowfort deck. It was more of a ridiculous idea at the time but then I started asking myself more and more of these effects and Zedruu just seemed to be the natural commander choice for them since I can hand a lot of these pain effects off.
Darksteel Mutation / Imprisoned in the Moon - these effects fall into the Oblivion Ring effect in that they return a commander or problem effect later if removal or a wrath potentially happens. I would rather do some sort of theft to be honest over these effects because of how they are undone. I still like the Arrest effects because they lock up threats but they also dont reward an Oblivion Stone. Really it comes down to how much static ability commanders you see in your meta. If you need to answer a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir then I agree, you need something more but in general I think potentially pushing up the theft is still a better answer. The auras that turn them into something else can be donated away but I am not as much of a fan of the actual effect they do so while they are more Zedruu friendly, I feel they are worse effects so in general I would rather have the better effect over the small bump in consistency.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I count 9 ETB effects in the whole deck. Its low enough that I run Torpor Orb.
I know that, but Venser's not just for ETB effects. You're running things like Arrest, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Mystic Remora. Venser can reset all those things.
I know that, but Venser's not just for ETB effects. You're running things like Arrest, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Mystic Remora. Venser can reset all those things.
This is true, its probably easier though to run some sort of versatile recursion though than assume that flickering will be that productive. That still only leaves a handful of targets that flickering will really handle nicely. Drawing more cards is also a robust way to just draw into more of these type of cards. I think its overcomplicating things considering the number of cards it interacts with is still not a super high number. I normally want to be considering 20-30+ card interactions or a strong commander interaction before I really start considering enabler cards.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yeah, I wasn't clear enough - you're running Arrest, and both of the cards I called out seem like they're better than that.
Their effect is better. The problem is how they function. I see a good bit of mass sweeper effects and since mass sweepers give back their target its worse in that sort of a situation. What they do in their effect is stronger but its how they die that is significantly worse if you ask me. I dont want an Oblivion Stone to give back a commander ready to rock and roll for instance. Arrest / Faith's Fetters will die to the same effect but their target will also go away which is what I prefer.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Fair enough, I didn't look at it this way. On the other hand, Wrath of God won't give them back the commander, so I guess it varies based on what type of sweeper is prevalent. I'm yet to actually see an Oblivion Stone in paper, for example, hence the reasoning.
Fair enough, I didn't look at it this way. On the other hand, Wrath of God won't give them back the commander, so I guess it varies based on what type of sweeper is prevalent. I'm yet to actually see an Oblivion Stone in paper, for example, hence the reasoning.
Yea, its somewhat of a meta call as well as what you see. If they are just going to spot removal or creature sweeper then you are correct that the other two are probably superior. As soon as you get into mass non land sweepers though it adds a lot of liability to Oblivion Ring effects which is why I tend to prefer to avoid them as that is the sort of thing I still see a good bit of in my meta.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Since you like to build yourself a pillow fort, how do you like to prospect of becoming the Monarch? Throne of the High City, at least, seems minimally intrusive.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
Since you like to build yourself a pillow fort, how do you like to prospect of becoming the Monarch? Throne of the High City, at least, seems minimally intrusive.
I had to go look up what Monarch was because none of the cards indicate how it functions other than what they do with it or if they take it. Overall, its possible to make it work but it also incentivizes attacking you. Its possible to consider something like this and just accept that you will be handing this effect off and try to get everyone to murder each other for it. I dont know, it seems like a lot of what ifs to me offhand. Normally when playing pillow fort you dont want to give people a reason to hit you so I can see some reasons against such an inclusion.
I attached the monarch token for anyone else who is asking themselves wtf is that lol.
ATTACHMENTS
en_OFPgMTjwcu
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
So, some things to note, YES, I do have a lot of things I dont want to hand away. I did try to include a good amount of cards that donate well but I also wanted to be able to defend myself and survive when Zedruu is not in play. I assume I will draw hate to my commander because this is after all a Zedruu deck.
I also tried to pack several cards to force attacking while I fort up. In a lot of cases, I have noticed that people stop attacking other players if I am in a good position and they cant attack me. So, I decided to force them to attack each other with a few effects. There are a few more I could consider but in general I felt like some effects like Bident of Thassa were just too narrow considering the trigger on attack probably wont happen for the most part for this deck and Avatar of Slaughter looks too painful for myself to be totally honest. I tried to just sort of put what I felt were some of the better ones into the deck instead.
1 Zedruu the Greathearted
CREATURES (22)
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Gilded Drake
1 Fog Bank
1 Goblin Diplomats
1 Guard Gomazoa
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wall of Denial
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Commander Eesha
1 Fumiko the Lowblood
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Windborn Muse
1 Basandra, Battle Seraph
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Sun Titan
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Blazing Archon
ARTIFACT (7)
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Null Rod
1 Torpor Orb
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Land Tax
1 Mystic Remora
1 Rest in Peace
1 Spreading Seas
1 Stony Silence
1 Arrest
1 Aura of Silence
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Planar Chaos
1 Propaganda
1 Spellshock
1 Wild Research
1 Collective Restraint
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Illusions of Grandeur
1 Manabarbs
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Exclusion Ritual
INSTANT (9)
1 Pact of Negation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swan Song
1 Mana Drain
1 Negate
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 Wear // Tear
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Return to Dust
SORCERY (3)
1 Curse of the Swine
1 Bribery
1 Tragic Arrogance
1 Dack Fayden
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
LAND (38)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Kher Keep
1 Kor Haven
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Mountain
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Mystic Gate
1 Mystifying Maze
4 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
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Moat - I do actually own a copy that is not currently in any decks at this moment. When I was first building this list it was in as was Magus of the Moat and Teferi's Moat. In the end, I decided that I wanted to take a different direction than stopping all attacks. In a lot of ways, the cards that stop all attacks also take away the advantage of strong defenses and Propaganda effects because your opponents dont take damage. Its an option but it also goes a very different direction that some of the forced attacks does not have as good of synergy with. It also means that you need to likely kill more people outright rather than just adding up to them dying with effects. I think ideal pillowfort strategies allow opponents to attack still just to make it harder to make that attack on you. Someone with one big good creature for instance might go elsewhere but if I stop them with a moat I then force them to break down my Moat to make any attack. I also considered a lot of other effects similar to this such as Arena of the Ancients and Ensnaring Bridge but in the end I did not want to stop attacks from being made so I ended up cutting these effects out.
Copy Enchantment - Its ok, my goal is not to become an enchantress deck. I have some in here but thats because they donate a bit better than creatures (because they can attack / block). Its an option but honestly I also have a good number of enchantments that dont double up nicely. I think I am ok with not having this just because of its limited use I think I would rather find room for Idealic Tutor to toolbox my enchantments rather than double down on any of them. I have never been too fond of narrow clone effects because they can really sit in hand for a long time.
Angel's Trumpet - its not a bad idea. It does however catch up my defenders in sort of a weird way because they cannot attack so it taps them all down. I dont mind tapping down Zedruu but I guess its one I had not really considered before. I will probably have to think on it to be honest. Its a card I had not considered when I was building it.
Citadel of Pain - its an interesting thought. I did consider it when building but I do like the idea of keeping some mana up for donating things or control spells. I think it could be decent somewhat of on a meta dependent basis assuming there is a lot of control.
Manlands - I just have a hard time justifying the mana to activate them as well as the entering tapped parts of them. I have just seen very few situations that I have liked the idea of paying a colonade to animate as thats a good portion of a turn that turns only into 4 dmg.
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[Modern] Allies
I count 9 ETB effects in the whole deck. Its low enough that I run Torpor Orb.
Its more of a concept than anything but I got to thinking what if I were to play manabarbs in a pillowfort deck. It was more of a ridiculous idea at the time but then I started asking myself more and more of these effects and Zedruu just seemed to be the natural commander choice for them since I can hand a lot of these pain effects off.
Darksteel Mutation / Imprisoned in the Moon - these effects fall into the Oblivion Ring effect in that they return a commander or problem effect later if removal or a wrath potentially happens. I would rather do some sort of theft to be honest over these effects because of how they are undone. I still like the Arrest effects because they lock up threats but they also dont reward an Oblivion Stone. Really it comes down to how much static ability commanders you see in your meta. If you need to answer a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir then I agree, you need something more but in general I think potentially pushing up the theft is still a better answer. The auras that turn them into something else can be donated away but I am not as much of a fan of the actual effect they do so while they are more Zedruu friendly, I feel they are worse effects so in general I would rather have the better effect over the small bump in consistency.
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[Modern] Allies
I know that, but Venser's not just for ETB effects. You're running things like Arrest, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Mystic Remora. Venser can reset all those things.
This is true, its probably easier though to run some sort of versatile recursion though than assume that flickering will be that productive. That still only leaves a handful of targets that flickering will really handle nicely. Drawing more cards is also a robust way to just draw into more of these type of cards. I think its overcomplicating things considering the number of cards it interacts with is still not a super high number. I normally want to be considering 20-30+ card interactions or a strong commander interaction before I really start considering enabler cards.
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[Modern] Allies
Their effect is better. The problem is how they function. I see a good bit of mass sweeper effects and since mass sweepers give back their target its worse in that sort of a situation. What they do in their effect is stronger but its how they die that is significantly worse if you ask me. I dont want an Oblivion Stone to give back a commander ready to rock and roll for instance. Arrest / Faith's Fetters will die to the same effect but their target will also go away which is what I prefer.
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[Modern] Allies
Yea, its somewhat of a meta call as well as what you see. If they are just going to spot removal or creature sweeper then you are correct that the other two are probably superior. As soon as you get into mass non land sweepers though it adds a lot of liability to Oblivion Ring effects which is why I tend to prefer to avoid them as that is the sort of thing I still see a good bit of in my meta.
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[Modern] Allies
I had to go look up what Monarch was because none of the cards indicate how it functions other than what they do with it or if they take it. Overall, its possible to make it work but it also incentivizes attacking you. Its possible to consider something like this and just accept that you will be handing this effect off and try to get everyone to murder each other for it. I dont know, it seems like a lot of what ifs to me offhand. Normally when playing pillow fort you dont want to give people a reason to hit you so I can see some reasons against such an inclusion.
I attached the monarch token for anyone else who is asking themselves wtf is that lol.
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[Modern] Allies