I see more decks going wide, not so much focusing on buffing 1 dude because removal is very popular here. Both boardwipes and targeted removal get played, but players here figure they might as well go wide and reduce the value of targeted removal rather than losing a big dude to both targeted removal and boardwipes. Out of my collection I have both Silent Arbiter and Propaganda. I don't feel like dropping 20 dollars on what's essentially a 4cmc tabernacle. Maybe I can just run either one or maybe both of those cards.
You'd rather run windfall and not re-use the graveyard than pay 2 extra mana in Time Reversal? Is the 2 extra that big a difference in a scenario where you need to play the card? I know twister is 1000x more expensive than Time reversal for a good reason, but still, it's maybe $2 versus $2000.
I think that running both cards could be good for you. I'd also highly recommend Evacuation as well since it's fairly cheap and clears the ENTIRE board at one swoop. Add in Archaeomancer/Salvager of Secrets and you've got a soft board lock for Aggro based decks that look to commit a large board of creatures to the battlefield.
Yes, the 3 CMC vs. 5 CMC does matter in the Windfall and Time Reversal comparison. This deck can easily cast Windfall on T1, which has a strong chance of messing up our opponents' mulligans and opening hands. This pseudo disruption with the CMC that is easily affordable on T1/T2 is great, and Windfall is still a good card in the late-game when combo decks are trying to sculpt their hands for their combo turn.
If you're not playing Time Spiral, then I think [CARD}Time Reversal[/CARD] is a great choice in its place. Teferi's mana output is very significant, and the important thing about the Spiral or 'Twister is the draw 7 to help us dig into our deck and find the combo pieces. You could even run Recurring Insight for the impressive card draw burst it is.
I'm still editing the Card Choices section, but I do recommend checking out the Card Choices section of the OP to read over the cards that have already been tested. There are budget AND non-budget options that are discussed, so you might be able to find some good ideas there as well.
Do you have a specific decklist you can post as well as a description of which Aggro decks you're facing? We'll see if we can help tailor your deck to your meta so that you increase your chances of domination!
I already own Time Spiral, so as of right now the only big money cards I don't have are Timetwister, Tabernacle, Candelabra, Power artifact, and Grim monolith (that card spiked up way too much recently omg). I also don't have Mox Diamond, but I'll substitute a Lotus petal for it instead. I chose to run Silent Arbiter and Propaganda because I already own those cards, and I think I'll just end up splurging for Grim Monolith. I could probably also run City of Traitors since I have 2 copies, and I think I'm gonna run Karn Liberated too since he's good removal.
There's numerous creature strategies I've play against, ranging from Omnath (both versions), Animar, elf tribal, Krenko, Zur, Muldrotha (this guy's been really popular as just a goodstuff deck recently), dino tribal, and a lot of other ones I can't remember off top. All I remember is they can either combo or just swing with big boards, and I kind of want it to be more generalized anyway since I just moved into a new area.
I guess I could consider evacuation, but I'm not sure if I have a free slot for that card as of right now.
Adjusting to your meta is an important thing to be aware of, especially if you're moving into a new one. Teferi can be a real buzz-kill for some players (I'm starting to see a lot of dissatisfaction and frustration when I pull it out against my playgroup in their body language and comments about my deck) and I think being respectful of your playgroup is important.
It sounds like you're going up against a bunch of green, dork-based decks. If you can't race them to your combo I think you might have better success in tutoring for Cursed Totem. Having been on both sides of that card, I can testify that it's absolutely fantastic against any type of creature based strategy. It's almost always the first Stax piece I try and tutor for because of how powerful it is against mana dorks and most of the creature based strategies. If the decks you're playing against focus more on land-ramp, than Winter Orb will be great. In summary, I recommend that you identify the axis that your opponents are operating around (creature based ramp vs. spell based ramp) and try and attack that with one of the Stax pieces. This will reduce the ability of your opponents to deploy a large board of creatures against you and attack your deck on one of its weaknesses (creature based Aggro). I'm sure that I'm simply repeating stuff you already know, so forgive my pontificating...
EDIT: Game Report below
3 Man: Kaalia, Teferi (me), R Grenzo
This was a relatively short game because I mulliganed into a really great opening 7: Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Island, Scalding Tarn, Reshape, Chain of Vapor, Time Spiral. It was pretty awesome, not gonna lie. I kept it, obviously. Kaalia plays a tapped land, passes. I draw another Island, play out the Crypt into the Vault and leave the U in case someone has an early Vandalblast. Grenzo plays out a T1 Goblin so he can start exiling the top of our libraries (so annoying). Kaalia untaps, plays another land into a Orzhov Signet, threatening a T3 Kaalia. If I draw a mana source or another artifact to sac to Reshape, I should be able to combo off on T3. I untap, draw a Impulse and sigh. I play an Island and cast Teferi, untapping my permanents and choosing to leave my mana open for an EOT Impulse and Chain of Vapor. Grenzo plays Grenzo and attacks me (his motto is to always attack the blue player... which is almost exclusively me haha). I Vapor it away because I don't want to risk The Chain Veil getting exiled. Kaalia casts Kaalia after playing another land and I know that I'm the target, without a doubt. I EOT Impulse into Basalt Monolith. Good enough. I untap and draw into Fact or Fiction. I cast the Monolith and tap it for mana along with the Vault, the Crypt, and an Island. I have 5U floating. Activate Teferi's ability to untap all the things. I then tap the same permanents for mana, netting another 9U and then cast Reshape, sac'ing the Crypt to go and find The Chain Veil. I have enough mana in my mana pool to activate The Chain Veil and my opponents scoop them up. Kaalia showed off her Master of Cruelties afterwards and glared at me (love you, Kate!). My brother rolls his eyes and then asks if I was scared of his Goblins. Of course I was. Goblin Trashmaster is the real deal.
Indeed. Those cards are all pretty satisfactory in my opinion for your meta. For the Maze of Ith vs. Silent Arbiter, I think that this particular selection goes to which type of Aggro you're facing: wide or tall. Tall Aggro decks (decks that are Voltron or pump up a single creature to massive proportions) can kill you quickly and the Maze will be great in turning those decks off. For Wide Aggro decks (decks that swarm the field with creatures), the Arbiter will be better. The same argument would be made for the Karn Liberated vs. Propaganda choice as well. And since you're facing mostly green decks, which typically swarm the battlefield rather than generate Tall creatures, I think that Propaganda and the Arbiter are better choices for you.
Indeed. Those cards are all pretty satisfactory in my opinion for your meta. For the Maze of Ith vs. Silent Arbiter, I think that this particular selection goes to which type of Aggro you're facing: wide or tall. Tall Aggro decks (decks that are Voltron or pump up a single creature to massive proportions) can kill you quickly and the Maze will be great in turning those decks off. For Wide Aggro decks (decks that swarm the field with creatures), the Arbiter will be better. The same argument would be made for the Karn Liberated vs. Propaganda choice as well. And since you're facing mostly green decks, which typically swarm the battlefield rather than generate Tall creatures, I think that Propaganda and the Arbiter are better choices for you.
I think for an unknown/new meta it might just do me well to include Ith and Propaganda/arbiter. I'm leaning more towards arbiter because it can be tutored. This way I'll have something for either type of aggro deck.
Sounds like a good plan. Once you know what the meta looks like, I'm sure you'll adjust your decklist to the cards that make the most sense for you.
It's also satisfying to see that Teferi has a presence in Standard at the current moment. All Hail the Time Tyrant Teferi, Hero of Dominaria!
My meta is shifting a little to focus on more Aggro/Stax based strategies. With this shift, Flusterstorm is no longer as appealing as a card. With this particular change, I"m thinking that I'll add Spellskite back in since it blocks a lot of creatures and provides a small forcefield for The Chain Veil on my combo turn. Nature's Claim is really quite good against us...
I've been playing at this store close to my new house with Tatyova, Benthic Druid and it seems like the meta at my new store is a solid 50/50 split right now for both types of aggro with a good dose of combo mixed in and one prison style enchantment deck that ended up winning in points tonight. I haven't fully assembled this deck and thus haven't played it yet, but I get the impression that decks here can switch between going big or going wide. Tonight I went through several pods and played decks like Kaalia, Maelstrom wanderer, The Ur-Dragon, Tasigur, Marath, and Estrid among other things. I think my decision to have cards that work against either type of aggro works well here.
@BasedFuster
Good luck in your meta! If you have any game reports to share, I'd love to read them and help you in any way possible.
In other news, I finally edited the OP so that all sections are now complete. I have submitted the Primer for review by the committee and I'm hopeful that they'll award this thread the coveted Primer tag!
Also, the Spellskite switch for Flusterstorm is nearly official. The lack of Storm in my meta has made this counterspell nearly obsolete. Several more games of testing will confirm this but it's looking more and more likely as I squeeze in some games with Teferi.
Just a brief update: I still have the decklist built and in its own deckbox but have put aside for the time being so that I can test other decks and give them some playtime. I've finished testing the Spellskite change and it's being made an official change on the decklist. Teferi has proven itself as one of the pillars of my playgroup and is one of the most consistent decks I've ever played.
I'll still update this thread, provide game reports for any games that I do play, review sets for Teferi, and respond to any comments, so don't think that this thread is dead because I'm testing other lists currently. I'll probably actively play Teferi again closer towards Thanksgiving when my friend's game store is hosting an end of year tournament.
I'm not sure how I missed this land, but Forge of Heroes is actually quite good in this deck. It makes Teferi better as a value Commander and, during The Chain Veil loop, makes it so you don't expose yourself to getting Teferi countered and leaving you stranded with nothing to do. It's getting the inclusion over a basic Island, since we have some room to add utility lands.
Spoiler Season has arrived! I'll be updating the thread once the full spoiler is up, but for now I can say that I'm quite excited for Mission Briefing. It's everything that Snapcaster Mage is but without a body that conflicts with our Torpor Orb. This is probably going to get the nod over Snappy or will be run alongside Snappy to add redundancy to the decklist.
Ajacobik, if you ever check back in on the thread or MTGSalvation generally, I think you'll be proud of how the Primer has turned out!
Many thanks also go to LordRewind. Thanks for taking a look at some of the coding to help correct errors and help it look good for the approval process.
In other news, with the Guilds of Ravnica spoiler finally released in its entirety, I will be evaluating the set for potential includes. Frankly, there's not many, but the ones that do look good look REALLY good.
Guilds of Ravnica Set Review
Mission Briefing - it's Snapcaster Mage without a body. The Surveil is nice and the ability to recur an instant or sorcery is very valuable to this list. I think that this is probably the only card worth including in the decklist, and whether or not it replaces Snappy or is run alongside it will need to be determined. We don't have a lot of ways to tutor for Snappy and the fact that Snappy is an ETB trigger makes Torpor Orb a little less favorable for us. But, the body can be relevant in stopping/trading with Tymna based decks. Hard to say how this card will test out, but I think it's going to earn its slot.
Chemister's Insight - I love the jump-start mechanic as a way to turn drawn land cards into actually useful spells. Sadly, none are good enough to include in this deck.
Sinister Sabotage - a budget Dissolve cousin. Good for a budget list, but not the optimized Combo list we're running.
Devious Cover-Up - kind of a cool counterspell for the fact that it puts cards back into your library. Not going to get into the mainlist, but I like the idea of this card a lot.
Ajacobik, if you ever check back in on the thread or MTGSalvation generally, I think you'll be proud of how the Primer has turned out!
Many thanks also go to LordRewind. Thanks for taking a look at some of the coding to help correct errors and help it look good for the approval process.
I was happy to help, but good job working with the primer committee, addressing their feedback, and making sure to put in the legwork to get their approval. Let the record show, i was a deny vote a few times during the polishing process
While I haven't played the deck recently, I've been reading additional sources for strategy and Teferi discussion, notably on the Teferi Discord site. After some intense deiscussion and debate there will be some changes that I'll be testing on Cockatrice, hopefully over the weekend. Notably, Candelabra of Tawnos, Power Artifact, and Winter Orb getting the cut in favor of more interaction and card draw. What those will be will be revealed over testing and further discussion.
Tymna/Thrasios decks are all the rage right now and FLash Hulk packages seem to be the most efficient and compact win conditions/combo lines in those colors.
EDIT: After much discussion and pondering, I think the tentative changes are going to be:
I believe that these additions will help shore up the Flash Hulk and Storm matchups and remove less effective pieces from the deck. Sadly, Candelabra is pretty much redundant to Teferi's ability. Forge of Heroes is mostly cute, but cutting the Orb, Power Artifact, and Spellskite hurts a bit. They all provide a valuable effect in our color, so I'll see if I miss them.
I added another section to the Primer called 'How to Play Control in Commander'. Once I test the changes I've suggested in the above post, I'll edit the main decklist and Primer sections as well.
really surprised to see the cut of candelabra, power artifact, AND spellskite. All have proven very valueable to me over time. Has Shackles proven worth it?
There have been a number of games where Candelabra of Tawnos was just Reshape fodder or Transmute Artifact fodder. Without the High Tide, it kinda just sits there most of the time and is a little redundant to Teferi's ability. Testing will prove whether or not this is the correct cut, but it seems like it's worth testing out for more interaction.
Power Artifact and Spellskite might easily come back in. They've also been really good to me in the past, so I'm conflicted about their removal for testing purposes. Quite simply, they're moving out to see if I like any of the cards I'm testing and to see if I miss either of them. If yes, then they'll come back. If not, then 2 slots just opened up.
Vedalken Shackles is absolutely worth it. In the 2 Cockatrice games I was able to squeeze in this weekend, I was able to steal an Arcum to block a Tymna and kill both of those Commanders. As long as I have 3 Islands in play, it's almost a guarantee that I'll be able to steal the best creature at the table and disrupt whatever strategy I'm targeting.
I don't remember one of the games all the way, but for the one that I did win Shackles was an all-star. It was a 3 player game with Arcum and Tymna+Thrasios Breakfast Hulk. My opening hand looked like Island, Polluted Delta, Vedalken Shackles, Mental Misstep, Sol Ring, and Trickbind. I was second in turn order. Arcum goes first and plays a City of Traitors into a Silver Myr. I draw Island and play out my Sol Ring. Tymna+Thrasios plays a fetch and passes. Arcum draws, misses a land drop, but plays a Fellwar Stone. I untap, draw something, and play Shackles with a Fetch land. Tymna/Thrasios tries to Vampiric Tutor on my EOT after cracking their fetch and I Misstep it. Tymna untaps, plays a Bloom Tender and a land. Arcum untaps, casts Arcum Dagsson and then plays an Island, saccing the City to its trigger. I untap, draw Chain of Vapor, play a land, say go. Tymna untaps, plays a land, plays Tymna, taps the Bloom Tender for WBG and casts Sylvan Library. That's a lot of card draw. I EOT Vapor the Arcum back to its owner's hand. Arcum does not sac a land to copy the spell. Arcum untaps, plays a fetchland, fetches, casts Arcum again. I untap, draw Fabricate, play an Island, say go. Tymna untaps, Sylvan Library trigger occurs, draws the extra cards and pays 8 life. Casts Demonic Tutor and then casts Hermit Druid with Bloom Tender. Tymna declares attackers, swings Tymna at me. I tap Shackles, steal the Arcum, and declare Arcum as my blocker. Tymna and Arcum both die. Arcum untaps, casts a Trinket Mage after drawing to find Mana Vault, casts the Vault, and passes. I untap, draw Grim Monolith. I cast the Monolith with Sol Ring and then tap the Monolith and my 3 Islands to cast Teferi. I use his -1 ability to untap 2 Islands, the Monolith, and the Sol Ring. I steal the Druid with Shackles via Sol Ring mana. Tymna EOT Nature's Claims it. Tymna untaps, draws 3 and pays 8 life, attempts to activate Druid, which I Trickbind. Fizzle fizzle fizzle. Tymna then casts Reclamation Sage to destroy my Shackles with Bloom Tender and remaining lands. Arcum untaps, casts Arcum and swings at Teferi for 2. I untap, draw an Island. I play the Island, draw Spell Pierce, tap all my things for mana (a total of 5UUU), activate Teferi's ability to add some more mana (total of 10UUUUU) and cast Fabricate. I find The Chain Veil. I cast the Veil. Tymna Force of Wills it. I Pierce the Force. Tymna concedes. Arcum player also concedes and I win.
I've been able to squeeze in just a few more games with this Teferi list and the Shackles has again proven useful. They were 1v1 games against my wife's Kaalia deck, granted, so that narrows the scope of my testing. The Shackles is able to consistently steal any creature with 2 power or less over the course of a game, which is extremely relevant. It steals Zur, Arcum, Animar (before it grows out of hand), Kaalia, Jeleva, Tymna, Edric, and Thrasios to name a few of the relevant creatures with 2 power or under. This is a sbustantial list. I haven't missed the Candelabra at all, so I think that this will be a clean swap. I'm still testing out the other changes before I make any Primer updates.
EDIT: Winter Orb is close behind the Candelabra in being cut. The only question before the change is official is what replaces it. I've had a few instances where Trickbind was relevant, but Counterbalance, Manifold Insights, and Spellskite all look really good.
Glen Elendra Archmage - a very desperately needed reprint, this Wizard is fantastic in Commander. She counters two spells for the low price of U and can occasionally block fliers. Get yours today! It has great Wizard synergies too.
Temporal Manipulation - wow, I never thought that they would reprint this except as a Judge Foil. Strictly better than Time Warp since it doesn't target players explicitly and can therefore NOT be redirected. If you wanted to focus on extra turns for your Teferi deck, this is a great pickup.
Back to Basics - probably the most relevant reprint for cEDH decks, this card is fantastic. Get one if you can while the prices are low.
Snapcaster Mage - yup, still one of the best creatures in all of MTG. Makes sense it got reprinted.
Dig Through Time - a very effective Draw spell for Commander. The price for this card is probably bottomed out now, so pick up a few copies of this card. It's a super effective draw spell in the mid-late game.
Mana Vault - probably the other super important reprint for this deck, the new Art is totally worth it. My brother and I are pooling our monies together and this and Back to Basics are the cards I most want to see.
All is Dust - another awesome reprint, this card hits multiple different permanent types while minimally affecting ours. A decent Wrath option if you're looking for one.
Karn Liberated - the OG Metal-Man in MTG. Not terribly effective in Commander, but still a decent effect.
Well, hot damn, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade is absolutely broken for the cEDH scene. It single-handedly stops nearly every competitive Combo deck in this format as long as she's in play and she has a massively attractive mana cost. This card spells Doom for fast Combo decks, and I know I'll personally be building a Control deck built around her.
Granted, this is still spoiler season, but it seems like Wizards' R&D smashed another set out of the park again. Awesomeness.
EDIT: I'm repeating a comment I made on my Tasigur Primer about Lavinia here as well in order to clarify my thinking on why she's so important for the cEDH scene.
I think you're 100% correct when evaluating the card from a more casual approach. I happily admit that there are many ways to play Commander, and I personally prefer playing more competitively. That being said, here's how I see the new Lavinia:
Lavinia's power is directly proportional to the type of decks your opponents are playing. For me and my playgroup, and the cEDH meta generally, mana rocks are king, especially the ones costing 2 and under. Lavinia causes mana rocks to be non-beneficial sources of mana advantage since she restricts your opponents' casting of spells to their land size. Check out my Memnarch and Teferi Primers. You see the relatively low land counts? More often than not, I only have 2-3 lands in play but a bunch of artifact mana that powers out MORE sources of mana advantage and card advantage. Very few of these effects WHEN I CAST THEM are ever proportional to the number of actual lands I have in play! Lavinia makes this type of mana advantage a liability for these types of decks since they no longer contribute directly to developing your board presence for the important non-creature spells that are played. There are too many playlines and gamestates to describe where the ability of my mana rocks to generate mana that can be used to cast non-creature spells ahead of their casting cost is absolutely crucial.
In my playgroup, it's very frequent that you'll see someone trying to jam a T1 Mana Rock into some sort of T2 non-creature spell (more often than not some sort of Wheel effect). This is almost 100% the consistent playline that I see and Lavinia stops that super effectively. Additionally, cEDH decks run a VERY low land count. This means that the non-creature spells that cost any more than 2+ mana have a real possibility of being unable to be cast with Lavinia in play. Hell, she even stops the earliest, most effective Wrath effect from going off UNTIL T3. If they even get to 3 actual lands in play in order to cast it. This is a very significant tempo loss for your opponents since they now HAVE to depend on land as their primary mana sources in order to unlock their spells.
Lavinia doesn't just shut down "large X spells" or Tooth and Nail type of cards. She causes legitimate tempo loss for optimized decks that run low land counts and the most powerful non-creature spells available. Ad Nauseam decks will NEVER get off the ground as long as Lavinia is in play until AT LEAST T5. Do you see how Lavinia shuts down any type of Dark Ritual effect? What about High Tide? Fast Combo decks that aren't Flash Hulk decks can no longer chain their spells together on time until they have the correct number of lands in play. Assuming they even hit their land drops every turn. Teferi Chain Veil decks now have to up their removal count because there's NO WAY that they can cast a T2 or T3 Teferi with Lavinia in play. Even Food Chain[/CARD} decks will stumble (not as signficantly as Storm or Teferi Chain Veil) because their most common line of play is T1 mana dork or tutor -> T2 double mana dork or tutor -> T3 Food Chain, often seeing rarely seeing their 3rd land since they depend on mana dorks to power out an early Food Chain line. Even Flash Hulk type of decks have to be careful since they can still possibly jam a T2 Flash but now have to be careful about what kind of protection they have for their combo. And her 2nd ability shuts down the new Arcum Dagsson decks that depend on different variants of Ornithopter in order to keep triggering Paradox Engine.
All of this discussion is relevant because Lavinia is a Legendary creature. That means she can be cast on T2 EVERY game and even on T1 with a MASSIVE degree of consistency. Because her effects are also ASYMMETRICAL, you don't disrupt your own combo lines at all. She's like a one-sided Gaddock Teeg.
So, to conclude my rant/explanation, Lavinia is significant and a very important card for the cEDH scene. For any other type of play, she's just a cool 2/2 Hate-Bear that enforces everyone to play fairly or depend on the inherently slower land-based ramp effects available.
I think that running both cards could be good for you. I'd also highly recommend Evacuation as well since it's fairly cheap and clears the ENTIRE board at one swoop. Add in Archaeomancer/Salvager of Secrets and you've got a soft board lock for Aggro based decks that look to commit a large board of creatures to the battlefield.
Yes, the 3 CMC vs. 5 CMC does matter in the Windfall and Time Reversal comparison. This deck can easily cast Windfall on T1, which has a strong chance of messing up our opponents' mulligans and opening hands. This pseudo disruption with the CMC that is easily affordable on T1/T2 is great, and Windfall is still a good card in the late-game when combo decks are trying to sculpt their hands for their combo turn.
If you're not playing Time Spiral, then I think [CARD}Time Reversal[/CARD] is a great choice in its place. Teferi's mana output is very significant, and the important thing about the Spiral or 'Twister is the draw 7 to help us dig into our deck and find the combo pieces. You could even run Recurring Insight for the impressive card draw burst it is.
I'm still editing the Card Choices section, but I do recommend checking out the Card Choices section of the OP to read over the cards that have already been tested. There are budget AND non-budget options that are discussed, so you might be able to find some good ideas there as well.
Do you have a specific decklist you can post as well as a description of which Aggro decks you're facing? We'll see if we can help tailor your deck to your meta so that you increase your chances of domination!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
There's numerous creature strategies I've play against, ranging from Omnath (both versions), Animar, elf tribal, Krenko, Zur, Muldrotha (this guy's been really popular as just a goodstuff deck recently), dino tribal, and a lot of other ones I can't remember off top. All I remember is they can either combo or just swing with big boards, and I kind of want it to be more generalized anyway since I just moved into a new area.
I guess I could consider evacuation, but I'm not sure if I have a free slot for that card as of right now.
It sounds like you're going up against a bunch of green, dork-based decks. If you can't race them to your combo I think you might have better success in tutoring for Cursed Totem. Having been on both sides of that card, I can testify that it's absolutely fantastic against any type of creature based strategy. It's almost always the first Stax piece I try and tutor for because of how powerful it is against mana dorks and most of the creature based strategies. If the decks you're playing against focus more on land-ramp, than Winter Orb will be great. In summary, I recommend that you identify the axis that your opponents are operating around (creature based ramp vs. spell based ramp) and try and attack that with one of the Stax pieces. This will reduce the ability of your opponents to deploy a large board of creatures against you and attack your deck on one of its weaknesses (creature based Aggro). I'm sure that I'm simply repeating stuff you already know, so forgive my pontificating...
EDIT: Game Report below
3 Man: Kaalia, Teferi (me), R Grenzo
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Timetwister -> Propaganda or Karn Liberated
Copy artifact -> Phyrexian Metamorph
Power Artifact -> Worn Powerstone
Tabernacle -> Silent Arbiter or maybe Maze of Ith??
Mox Diamond -> Lotus Petal
Seems decent enough right?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I think for an unknown/new meta it might just do me well to include Ith and Propaganda/arbiter. I'm leaning more towards arbiter because it can be tutored. This way I'll have something for either type of aggro deck.
It's also satisfying to see that Teferi has a presence in Standard at the current moment. All Hail the Time Tyrant Teferi, Hero of Dominaria!
My meta is shifting a little to focus on more Aggro/Stax based strategies. With this shift, Flusterstorm is no longer as appealing as a card. With this particular change, I"m thinking that I'll add Spellskite back in since it blocks a lot of creatures and provides a small forcefield for The Chain Veil on my combo turn. Nature's Claim is really quite good against us...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Good luck in your meta! If you have any game reports to share, I'd love to read them and help you in any way possible.
In other news, I finally edited the OP so that all sections are now complete. I have submitted the Primer for review by the committee and I'm hopeful that they'll award this thread the coveted Primer tag!
Also, the Spellskite switch for Flusterstorm is nearly official. The lack of Storm in my meta has made this counterspell nearly obsolete. Several more games of testing will confirm this but it's looking more and more likely as I squeeze in some games with Teferi.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Of course. Since ajacobik has left the multi-player forums, you've been a great resource for the Primer. Gotta give credit where it's due.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'll still update this thread, provide game reports for any games that I do play, review sets for Teferi, and respond to any comments, so don't think that this thread is dead because I'm testing other lists currently. I'll probably actively play Teferi again closer towards Thanksgiving when my friend's game store is hosting an end of year tournament.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
-Island
+Forge of Heroes
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Ajacobik, if you ever check back in on the thread or MTGSalvation generally, I think you'll be proud of how the Primer has turned out!
Many thanks also go to LordRewind. Thanks for taking a look at some of the coding to help correct errors and help it look good for the approval process.
In other news, with the Guilds of Ravnica spoiler finally released in its entirety, I will be evaluating the set for potential includes. Frankly, there's not many, but the ones that do look good look REALLY good.
Guilds of Ravnica Set Review
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
The testing list is as follows:
1 Stifle
1 Negate
1 Manifold Insights
1 Chemister's Insight
1 Into the Roil
1 Torpor Orb
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Scavenger Grounds
Tymna/Thrasios decks are all the rage right now and FLash Hulk packages seem to be the most efficient and compact win conditions/combo lines in those colors.
EDIT: After much discussion and pondering, I think the tentative changes are going to be:
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Trickbind
1 Counterbalance
1 Manifold Insights
1 Winter Orb
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Forge of Heroes
1 Power Artifact
1 Spellskite
I believe that these additions will help shore up the Flash Hulk and Storm matchups and remove less effective pieces from the deck. Sadly, Candelabra is pretty much redundant to Teferi's ability. Forge of Heroes is mostly cute, but cutting the Orb, Power Artifact, and Spellskite hurts a bit. They all provide a valuable effect in our color, so I'll see if I miss them.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Power Artifact and Spellskite might easily come back in. They've also been really good to me in the past, so I'm conflicted about their removal for testing purposes. Quite simply, they're moving out to see if I like any of the cards I'm testing and to see if I miss either of them. If yes, then they'll come back. If not, then 2 slots just opened up.
Vedalken Shackles is absolutely worth it. In the 2 Cockatrice games I was able to squeeze in this weekend, I was able to steal an Arcum to block a Tymna and kill both of those Commanders. As long as I have 3 Islands in play, it's almost a guarantee that I'll be able to steal the best creature at the table and disrupt whatever strategy I'm targeting.
I don't remember one of the games all the way, but for the one that I did win Shackles was an all-star. It was a 3 player game with Arcum and Tymna+Thrasios Breakfast Hulk. My opening hand looked like Island, Polluted Delta, Vedalken Shackles, Mental Misstep, Sol Ring, and Trickbind. I was second in turn order. Arcum goes first and plays a City of Traitors into a Silver Myr. I draw Island and play out my Sol Ring. Tymna+Thrasios plays a fetch and passes. Arcum draws, misses a land drop, but plays a Fellwar Stone. I untap, draw something, and play Shackles with a Fetch land. Tymna/Thrasios tries to Vampiric Tutor on my EOT after cracking their fetch and I Misstep it. Tymna untaps, plays a Bloom Tender and a land. Arcum untaps, casts Arcum Dagsson and then plays an Island, saccing the City to its trigger. I untap, draw Chain of Vapor, play a land, say go. Tymna untaps, plays a land, plays Tymna, taps the Bloom Tender for WBG and casts Sylvan Library. That's a lot of card draw. I EOT Vapor the Arcum back to its owner's hand. Arcum does not sac a land to copy the spell. Arcum untaps, plays a fetchland, fetches, casts Arcum again. I untap, draw Fabricate, play an Island, say go. Tymna untaps, Sylvan Library trigger occurs, draws the extra cards and pays 8 life. Casts Demonic Tutor and then casts Hermit Druid with Bloom Tender. Tymna declares attackers, swings Tymna at me. I tap Shackles, steal the Arcum, and declare Arcum as my blocker. Tymna and Arcum both die. Arcum untaps, casts a Trinket Mage after drawing to find Mana Vault, casts the Vault, and passes. I untap, draw Grim Monolith. I cast the Monolith with Sol Ring and then tap the Monolith and my 3 Islands to cast Teferi. I use his -1 ability to untap 2 Islands, the Monolith, and the Sol Ring. I steal the Druid with Shackles via Sol Ring mana. Tymna EOT Nature's Claims it. Tymna untaps, draws 3 and pays 8 life, attempts to activate Druid, which I Trickbind. Fizzle fizzle fizzle. Tymna then casts Reclamation Sage to destroy my Shackles with Bloom Tender and remaining lands. Arcum untaps, casts Arcum and swings at Teferi for 2. I untap, draw an Island. I play the Island, draw Spell Pierce, tap all my things for mana (a total of 5UUU), activate Teferi's ability to add some more mana (total of 10UUUUU) and cast Fabricate. I find The Chain Veil. I cast the Veil. Tymna Force of Wills it. I Pierce the Force. Tymna concedes. Arcum player also concedes and I win.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
-Candelabra of Tawnos
+Vedalken Shackles
EDIT: Winter Orb is close behind the Candelabra in being cut. The only question before the change is official is what replaces it. I've had a few instances where Trickbind was relevant, but Counterbalance, Manifold Insights, and Spellskite all look really good.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Granted, this is still spoiler season, but it seems like Wizards' R&D smashed another set out of the park again. Awesomeness.
EDIT: I'm repeating a comment I made on my Tasigur Primer about Lavinia here as well in order to clarify my thinking on why she's so important for the cEDH scene.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager