do we have a board wipe in a stick ala False Prophet but not exile. on top of my head, it's Massacre Wurm but it's very limited. that should make Thrilling Encore really enticing.
on the other hand, awesome work on this primer, mate. i've been lurking since you took over from Black Jack and the discussions have been really helpful to my 99. thank you! i was also a convert from using Ghost Council as commander. will try to post my list soon.
also, i'm just wondering if the deck list on your original post is the most recent version of what you play?
I'm glad the primer has been helpful for you! I wish Blackjack were still around, simply to see how our takes on the deck may have differed over time. Definitely curious to see your list! The list in the OP is up to date with the version I play. I actually haven't been playing Ayli much as of late due to being in a brewing frenzy, but have been keeping a close eye on new cards and releases
As for Thrilling Encore: It's true that at least in the deck in the OP, the ways to instantly wipe the board is limited in the deck, from our own. I feel the biggest potential is responding to opponents playing board wipes, Living Death or a lot of other effects. As Jonas said, Merciless Executioner can be quite a instant speed boardwipe trick, especially if you're still running Grave Pact/Dictate of Erebos/Butcher of Malakir, and there's Route too if someone wants to really make it their win condition. Again I'm not vouching for it being an absolute must-include by any means; but, I am saying that I think it's good enough and with some slight adjustment it can be a fun card to play and new potential win condition that simply punishes opponents for playing mid to late game board wipes, or rewards you for clearing the board, yourself
I'll probably be sticking to Austere Command over Cleansing Nova, myself, although it's a pretty decent alternative and easily the best 5 board wipe in White. I feel like the option to separate Enchantment and Artifact removal is pretty important to the deck with so many of our important combo pieces and effects being attached to our Artifacts. If I do need to blow up Artifacts, Austere Command still allows that. But it's also super useful against Enchantress, Voltron and Landfall decks that create a lot of tokens and damage from triggered abilities on Enchantments; that also allows the 3-or-less mode to just take care of token swarms without risking losing our heavy beaters/reanimation targets at a less-than-ideal time. It's really easy to set up an Austere Command where you take minimal splash damage while trying to deal with opponent's threats, while Cleansing Nova offers a couple options and is good, but will be harder to set up to avoid that splash damage. More options is my jam
Speaking of M19 though, WOW has it surprised me. Desecated Tomb is actually pretty tempting because of how easy it is to repeatedly bring back creatures from the graveyard, making sac fodder and blockers for days. I've been considering Krav, the Unredeemed for the main list and Desecrated Tomb would be amazing alongside that inclusion. The gears are turning Expect a full review of the Core Set later this week!
Hey Kelzam, seeing as you talked about your Elenda, the Dusk Rose deck, I was wondering about how much of a drawback her "dies" trigger is in actual gameplay.
I've been thinking about maybe building her, as she seems to play a bit more aristocraty than Ayli, which I think I would really enjoy, but I fear that having to get her back from the graveyard might make the whole strategy a bit inconsistent.
Sry if this is a bit off-topic here in the Ayli thread, but I'd love to hear about your experiences with the deck.
Hey there tarotplz I don't mind you asking about Elenda, at all! I intend to make a Primer for her very very soon. But until then:
I've actually been playing Elenda a lot more than Ayli lately because my meta has mellowed into a state of a lot of very interactive, fun decks where I don't feel the need to play so defensively as I do with Ayli. Elenda is more proactive than reactive, almost like the other side of the coin to what I do here with Ayli. I've found my build so far to be extremely resilient just like Ayli is. But rather than that resiliency existing in the ability to reanimator combo everything back together, it's more so that with the trifecta of srategies playing into each other, anything my opponents do just feeds another way I'm looking to win. If you'd like to see my decklist for Elenda as she stands now, here's a link:
Artifact (11)
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Expedition Map
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Amber
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Phyrexian Altar
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Thought Vessel
Instant (10)
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Argivian Find
1x Corpse Dance
1x Dark Bargain
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Mortify
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vampiric Tutor
Enchantment (6)
1x Angelic Renewal
1x Animate Dead
1x Gift of Immortality
1x Necromancy
1x Necropotence
1x Phyrexian Arena
Here's my current 99. Nothing new from the synergies and combos that are already discussed in this primer. Except maybe the Boonweaver Giant and Gift of Immortality, that can also feed multiple sacs and/or trigger Blood Artist.
Beautiful Primer. I'll be editing my own Primers so they look more like this one. My sincere congrats.
Also, I feel like I should propose the addition of Emrakul, the Promised solely on principle. While not particularly good in context of your deck, there needs to be a cthulu representation somewhere in the deck methinks, haha. I love Lovecraft and actually have a compendium of his stories right next to my computer. Good stuff.
Peacekeeper did save me once or twice from Craterhoof Behemoth Alpha Strike. Not 100% sure she earned a more permanent slot, but we’ll see.
For now, I’m liking Knight-Captain of Eos a bit more than Wurmcoil Engine. It has similar combo-potential, but scares opponents less, can save me from attacks (or gain political points doing so for another player). And it’s 5 CMC instead of 6.
Hey, everyone. How do you play around things like The Scarab God?
I've been packing exile effects for that monster, but I find the game devolves into a hate-match between me and The Scarab God player while everyone profits at our distraction. Any other tactics that I can employ that allow Ayli to keep being Ayli without having to worry constantly about The Scarab God?
That’s a tough one. How about disabling it, without giving an opportunity to go to the command zone? Like Faith's Fetters (it’s in Kelzam’s list), or Darksteel Mutation?
That’s a tough one. How about disabling it, without giving an opportunity to go to the command zone? Like Faith’s Fetters (it’s in Kelzam’s list), or Darksteel Mutation?
Yeah, that could work.
I have neither of those exact cards, but do have a few of what I would expect could be viable subs:
Alternatively, you could also threaten to instantly recur the card in your ‘yard the God targets with Phyrexian Reclamation. Your graveyard is your treasure trove, don’t let that insect thing plunder it.
Alternatively, you could also threaten to instantly recur the card in your ‘yard the God targets with Phyrexian Reclamation. Your graveyard is your treasure trove, don’t let that insect thing plunder it.
I'd like to chime in that, while very effective, this is very frustrating for opponents, and may cause some to sigh the moment they see Ayli as a commander. Use with moderation, it might destroy your welcome at playtables.
I've been inspired to build an Ayli deck and it has been very enjoyable.
I don't own, and can't afford, all the cards in the main list but I have a good amount of overlap and some alternatives that I like and would probably run even if budget was no concern.
My version of Ayli is attempting to pull off sub-optimal combos and loops.
I thought others on this thread might find my card choices and combos interesting enough to at least think about.
Enduring Renewal and Deathrender plus any ETB creature. While it is far from ideal from a combo player to reveal their hand, I find this combo to be so much fun I had to squeeze it in. Equip Deathrender on your creature of choice with Enduring Renewal in play and sac the creature to your engine of choice. Then stack the triggers such that Enduring Renewal returns creature to your hand prior to Deathrender's trigger resolving. This can work because Deathrender doesn't need a target when it's trigger goes on the stack. Loop any creature as many times as you can sac it.
I don't have the pricier tutors, so I'm leaning a little heavier on the 4 CMC creatures and using Dimir House Guard and Fleshwrither as well as Heliod's Pilgrim. These are clearly not the best tutors, but they can fetch combo pieces and my board wipes and they can be recurred.
I have decided to run Kor Cartographer and Emeria, the Sky Ruin in part because he costs 4 and is thus some ramp I could tutor and in part because of some of the loops I'm running, like Enduring Renewal as well as Gift of Immortality. I'm also trying to run Burnished Hart for repeated ramp, but he he seems to have a big target on his head in my group.
I don't know about you, but my main issues with this deck almost always come from mana troubles or, from not keeping up with ramp.
I added a Gift of Estates (besides the usual manarocks and Land Tax) to try to fix this.
Edit: my apologies, it looks like I’ve been complaining about this before (post #297), and forgot about it. Must be it’s really bothering me
Boreas Charger looks like a great way to ramp with this deck since the trigger is a LTB trigger. It's Sun Titan-able and Reveillark-able as well, so it looks like a great inclusion for this list.
Boreas Charger looks like a great way to ramp with this deck since the trigger is a LTB trigger. It's Sun Titan-able and Reveillark-able as well, so it looks like a great inclusion for this list.
I don't know about you, but my main issues with this deck almost always come from mana troubles or, from not keeping up with ramp.
I added a Gift of Estates (besides the usual manarocks and Land Tax) to try to fix this.
I have exactly the same problems. My meta has a lot of highly tuned, fast and consistent decks and I kind of rely on others to keep those in check for the first few turns. Beyond turn 5 it's a whole different game though, and this deck can really take over.
Boreas Charger looks like a great way to ramp with this deck since the trigger is a LTB trigger. It's Sun Titan-able and Reveillark-able as well, so it looks like a great inclusion for this list.
Thx, I will for sure test this one! I was already considering adding Knight of the White Orchid, but this seems better because 1xW.
Also in that category, though worse than the other mentions, oreskos explorer also still exists
Hey everyone! Sorry it's been a while since I've checked in. I started volunteering to help out at my LGS since a couple of their regular staff stopped by, so I've been very busy with that on top of my usual work load and haven't had much time to pop in. Before I write some blurbs in response to some topics here lately, I'm going to pen a brief overview of the Core Set 2019 and Commander 2018 cards I found of interest for Ayli. Spoiler alert: Not much, sadly
Core Set 2019
Cleansing Nova - Alternative to Austere Command for those who value their modal spells, such as I. It doesn't give you quite the same amount of control over what dies, but can be very nice.
Desecrated Tomb - Interesting way to make a lot of sac fodder depending on your build. I imagine playing this alongside Reassembling Skeleton or Bloodghast and just making a lot of blockers or sac fodder could be pretty decent, but it entirely depends on how often you're pulling something from your graveyard.
Detection Tower - It's always great to have this effect. If you can't get your hands on Arcane Lighthouse, this isn't bad. The difference is in your build. Detection Tower doesn't remove Shroud, but does remove Hexproof from your opponent's creatures AND your opponents, themselves. Arcane Lighthouse gets rid of your opponent's creatures' Hexproof and Shroud, both, but not Hexproof on your opponent. An opponent having Hexproof themself rarely comes up in my experience, so it's entirely a meta call, but if you simply just want to get around Archetype of Endurance or Asceticism, then this is a nice solution that should be widely available as it was printed in a Standard product.
Commander 2019
Loyal Subordinate - The sole card that I feel is worth inclusion is Loyal Subordinate. It's very easy to keep Ayli on the battlefield with her low cost, and it's easy to get this guy back. 3 life per opponent per turn adds up. If you're playing Sanguine Bond it gets that much more ridiculous. Unfortunately I don't feel any of the other new cards in this year's decks are up to par or synergize with Ayli well. Skull Storm is 9 mana and your Commander will probably have been cast 2-4 times at most in a given game before it's over. Sower of Discord wants you to deal a steady amount of damage to opponents, and there's far easier ways to do that. Entreat the Dead does not work well for Ayli because if you draw it at the wrong time and don't have much in your graveyard yet or that is worth bringing back, it's going to be extremely hard to cast for anything meaningful after that and you may as well run Rise of the Dark Realms or Living Death, instead.
Thoughts and Comments!
@blatimer - Thank you for stopping by! I've read your post and I'm going to try to respond to you directly tomorrow when I have time to do a bigger post I'm happy this thread has been helpful!
-Boreas Charger is indeed a great card for Ayli if you find yourself needing ramp or having mana issues, and I would recommend it over similar cards like Knight of the White Orchid, for sure! My personal build hasn't ever had enough problems but for those who are struggling I'm sure this will be great.
-Yosei, the Morning Star lock, while absurd and effective, is generally something I play as a last resort these days when there's just no other way to survive or prevent another player from winning. The threat of him being on the table alone warps the game by making people very cautious of being blown out by him, and he often demands removal be used on him before you can use it at a very inopportune time. Still, definitely deploy this combo with great discretion for your own sakes
I personally resorted to having lots of rocks for my ramp and finally solved the mana thirst issue of the deck.
Not a cheap option though with Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, and Mox Amber on board. Expedition Map and Weathered Wayfarer fetches me Ancient Tomb or the Coffer/Urborg synergy.
If I have money to spend iL even include a Mox Diamond but between the above cards what's left in my ramp arsenal is just Land Tax and Crypt Ghast and didn't feel lacking anymore.
I personally resorted to having lots of rocks for my ramp and finally solved the mana thirst issue of the deck.
Not a cheap option though with Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, and Mox Amber on board. Expedition Map and Weathered Wayfarer fetches me Ancient Tomb or the Coffer/Urborg synergy.
If I have money to spend iL even include a Mox Diamond but between the above cards what's left in my ramp arsenal is just Land Tax and Crypt Ghast and didn't feel lacking anymore.
I'd probably try to fit in Gilded Lotus and Mox Diamond over Mana Crypt and Mana Vault. Land Tax isn't bad, but I do try to avoid the Cabal Coffers type of effects just because we want enough utility lands that without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, they end up really low impact. The deck is more colored-mana hungry than anything. Mox Amber actually is pretty sweet for the deck because we run a lot of Legendary creatures and being able to have Ayli out early and usually stick on the board makes it a really tasty option!
As I mentioned before, I often attempt to achieve sub-optimal or otherwise pointless death loops and put them to work.
Goofy death loops include: Leonin Relic-Warder and Animate dead/Necromancy/Dance of the Dead - Leonin can exile the enchantment, kill himself in the process, and when the enchantment returns it can pull back Leonin
Enduring Renewal and Deathrender plus any creature and any sac outlet. An ETB creature may win the game with it's ETB, but even a boring creature can be looped for death triggers.
I just added Viridian Longbow to try out. I'm looking forward to putting it onto a creature with deathtouch or lifelink or both. We'll see how it plays in my group. I'd be way better off with more efficient removal, but I don't play to be the most efficient. I can also see a freak win happening if I generate enough spawns with a Pawn of Ulamog (any arbitrarily large number of spawns is possible with one of those otherwise pointless loops). I could repeatedly equip the longbow to a spawn, ping something or someone for a damage, sac the spawn for mana and repeat.
Other goofy combos I might look for:
loop Gonti, Lord of Luxury to mill opponents to death
loop Filigree Familiar with a Vizkopa Guildmage life gain trigger in effect to kill everyone else
sac a bunch of spawns or tokens to Ayli with a Vizkopa Guildmage life gain trigger in effect to kill everyone else for the win
attack with an absurdly large Carrion Feeder and or sac it to Ayli with a Vizkopa Guildmage life gain trigger in effect
use Mirrorpool to copy Sun Titan, use Sun Titan to bring back Mirrorpool and repeat until the titans overwhelm the opposition or bring back everything else from the graveyard
I have yet to get anything interesting into Mimic Vat but this deck seems full of great things to copy.
If you have any suggestions for uncommon or high card count combos that fit in with what I have here, let me know. I like the strange stuff.
Or if you have comments or questions, please share.
I personally resorted to having lots of rocks for my ramp and finally solved the mana thirst issue of the deck.
Not a cheap option though with Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, and Mox Amber on board. Expedition Map and Weathered Wayfarer fetches me Ancient Tomb or the Coffer/Urborg synergy.
If I have money to spend iL even include a Mox Diamond but between the above cards what's left in my ramp arsenal is just Land Tax and Crypt Ghast and didn't feel lacking anymore.
I'd probably try to fit in Gilded Lotus and Mox Diamond over Mana Crypt and Mana Vault. Land Tax isn't bad, but I do try to avoid the Cabal Coffers type of effects just because we want enough utility lands that without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, they end up really low impact. The deck is more colored-mana hungry than anything. Mox Amber actually is pretty sweet for the deck because we run a lot of Legendary creatures and being able to have Ayli out early and usually stick on the board makes it a really tasty option!
you got me thinking removing Coffers and Urborg.
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@chopsueyrice: Fleshbag Marauder could function as a recurrable (sort of) sweeper, to pair with Thrilling Encore, perhaps.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Will definitely replace my Austere Command.
I'm glad the primer has been helpful for you! I wish Blackjack were still around, simply to see how our takes on the deck may have differed over time. Definitely curious to see your list! The list in the OP is up to date with the version I play. I actually haven't been playing Ayli much as of late due to being in a brewing frenzy, but have been keeping a close eye on new cards and releases
As for Thrilling Encore: It's true that at least in the deck in the OP, the ways to instantly wipe the board is limited in the deck, from our own. I feel the biggest potential is responding to opponents playing board wipes, Living Death or a lot of other effects. As Jonas said, Merciless Executioner can be quite a instant speed boardwipe trick, especially if you're still running Grave Pact/Dictate of Erebos/Butcher of Malakir, and there's Route too if someone wants to really make it their win condition. Again I'm not vouching for it being an absolute must-include by any means; but, I am saying that I think it's good enough and with some slight adjustment it can be a fun card to play and new potential win condition that simply punishes opponents for playing mid to late game board wipes, or rewards you for clearing the board, yourself
I'll probably be sticking to Austere Command over Cleansing Nova, myself, although it's a pretty decent alternative and easily the best 5 board wipe in White. I feel like the option to separate Enchantment and Artifact removal is pretty important to the deck with so many of our important combo pieces and effects being attached to our Artifacts. If I do need to blow up Artifacts, Austere Command still allows that. But it's also super useful against Enchantress, Voltron and Landfall decks that create a lot of tokens and damage from triggered abilities on Enchantments; that also allows the 3-or-less mode to just take care of token swarms without risking losing our heavy beaters/reanimation targets at a less-than-ideal time. It's really easy to set up an Austere Command where you take minimal splash damage while trying to deal with opponent's threats, while Cleansing Nova offers a couple options and is good, but will be harder to set up to avoid that splash damage. More options is my jam
Speaking of M19 though, WOW has it surprised me. Desecated Tomb is actually pretty tempting because of how easy it is to repeatedly bring back creatures from the graveyard, making sac fodder and blockers for days. I've been considering Krav, the Unredeemed for the main list and Desecrated Tomb would be amazing alongside that inclusion. The gears are turning Expect a full review of the Core Set later this week!
(Also known as Xenphire)
Hey there tarotplz I don't mind you asking about Elenda, at all! I intend to make a Primer for her very very soon. But until then:
Sending her to the graveyard to trigger her ability actually hasn't been that problematic for me, at all. The build I have does a trifecta where token swarm, artistocrat-style play and alpha striking with Elenda all interplay. If an opponent stops one, it helps the other. But between Gift of Immortality on Elenda, as well as Phyrexian Reclamation, Together Forever, Dusk//Dawn (the Dawn side), Reanimate, Necromancy, Thrilling Encore, Hell's Caretaker, Debtors' Knell and potentially Whisper, Blood Liturgist (debating adding her), I have a pretty easy time getting her back onto the battlefield!
I've actually been playing Elenda a lot more than Ayli lately because my meta has mellowed into a state of a lot of very interactive, fun decks where I don't feel the need to play so defensively as I do with Ayli. Elenda is more proactive than reactive, almost like the other side of the coin to what I do here with Ayli. I've found my build so far to be extremely resilient just like Ayli is. But rather than that resiliency existing in the ability to reanimator combo everything back together, it's more so that with the trifecta of srategies playing into each other, anything my opponents do just feeds another way I'm looking to win. If you'd like to see my decklist for Elenda as she stands now, here's a link:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/795696-elenda-the-dusk-rose-kiss-from-a-rose
I went ahead and made a small thread for the deck until I can get around to fleshing it out for any questions
(Also known as Xenphire)
1x Academy Rector
1x Archon of Justice
1x Ashen Rider
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Blood Artist
1x Bloodghast
1x Body Snatcher
1x Boonweaver Giant
1x Crypt Ghast
1x False Prophet
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Karmic Guide
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Puppeteer Clique
1x Razaketh, the Foulblooded
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Reveillark
1x Sadistic Hypnotist
1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sun Titan
1x Triskelion
1x Viscera Seer
1x Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
Planeswalker (1)
1x Kaya, Ghost Assassin
Land (34)
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Flooded Strand
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
1x Godless Shrine
1x High Market
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Kor Haven
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Phyrexian Tower
5x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Strip Mine
8x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
Sorcery (7)
1x Austere Command
1x Buried Alive
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Final Parting
1x Reanimate
Commander (1)
1x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Artifact (11)
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Expedition Map
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Amber
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Phyrexian Altar
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Thought Vessel
Instant (10)
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Argivian Find
1x Corpse Dance
1x Dark Bargain
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Mortify
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vampiric Tutor
Enchantment (6)
1x Angelic Renewal
1x Animate Dead
1x Gift of Immortality
1x Necromancy
1x Necropotence
1x Phyrexian Arena
Here's my current 99. Nothing new from the synergies and combos that are already discussed in this primer. Except maybe the Boonweaver Giant and Gift of Immortality, that can also feed multiple sacs and/or trigger Blood Artist.
Link to the deck @ TappedOut.net
Also, I feel like I should propose the addition of Emrakul, the Promised solely on principle. While not particularly good in context of your deck, there needs to be a cthulu representation somewhere in the deck methinks, haha. I love Lovecraft and actually have a compendium of his stories right next to my computer. Good stuff.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Peacekeeper did save me once or twice from Craterhoof Behemoth Alpha Strike. Not 100% sure she earned a more permanent slot, but we’ll see.
For now, I’m liking Knight-Captain of Eos a bit more than Wurmcoil Engine. It has similar combo-potential, but scares opponents less, can save me from attacks (or gain political points doing so for another player). And it’s 5 CMC instead of 6.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
I am yet to find a slot for Vedalken Orrery.
I've been packing exile effects for that monster, but I find the game devolves into a hate-match between me and The Scarab God player while everyone profits at our distraction. Any other tactics that I can employ that allow Ayli to keep being Ayli without having to worry constantly about The Scarab God?
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Yeah, that could work.
I have neither of those exact cards, but do have a few of what I would expect could be viable subs:
Alternatively, you could also threaten to instantly recur the card in your ‘yard the God targets with Phyrexian Reclamation. Your graveyard is your treasure trove, don’t let that insect thing plunder it.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Yes. We hates that insect, don't we? </gollum>
That's a great suggestion. Thanks again.
Yosei, the Morning Star + Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim + Gift of Immortality
I'd like to chime in that, while very effective, this is very frustrating for opponents, and may cause some to sigh the moment they see Ayli as a commander. Use with moderation, it might destroy your welcome at playtables.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
I've been inspired to build an Ayli deck and it has been very enjoyable.
I don't own, and can't afford, all the cards in the main list but I have a good amount of overlap and some alternatives that I like and would probably run even if budget was no concern.
My version of Ayli is attempting to pull off sub-optimal combos and loops.
I thought others on this thread might find my card choices and combos interesting enough to at least think about.
Enduring Renewal and Deathrender plus any ETB creature. While it is far from ideal from a combo player to reveal their hand, I find this combo to be so much fun I had to squeeze it in. Equip Deathrender on your creature of choice with Enduring Renewal in play and sac the creature to your engine of choice. Then stack the triggers such that Enduring Renewal returns creature to your hand prior to Deathrender's trigger resolving. This can work because Deathrender doesn't need a target when it's trigger goes on the stack. Loop any creature as many times as you can sac it.
I don't have the pricier tutors, so I'm leaning a little heavier on the 4 CMC creatures and using Dimir House Guard and Fleshwrither as well as Heliod's Pilgrim. These are clearly not the best tutors, but they can fetch combo pieces and my board wipes and they can be recurred.
For card draw, I have opted to not use Phyrexian Arena and Necropotence but instead run Grim Haruspex along with Disciple of Bolas, Wall of Omens, and Filigree Familiar, along with Skullclamp. I have played perhaps 10 games so far, but I haven't been starved for cards yet.
I have decided to run Kor Cartographer and Emeria, the Sky Ruin in part because he costs 4 and is thus some ramp I could tutor and in part because of some of the loops I'm running, like Enduring Renewal as well as Gift of Immortality. I'm also trying to run Burnished Hart for repeated ramp, but he he seems to have a big target on his head in my group.
I'm not running Yosei or Kokusho. Instead, I am running some bleeder cards like Falkenrath Noble and Zulaport Cutthroat as well as Gray Merchant of Asphodel The bleeder cards can win if I hit a Sun Titan loop, or a Leonin Relic-Warder loop which might otherwise be pointless loops...but I try to put them to work.
Alternatively, I can try to win with tokens. I'm running Pawn of Ulamog, Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Angel of Invention, as well as Mirror Entity. Under the right circumstances, Sun Titan loop, or a Leonin Relic-Warder loop, the Pawn of Ulamog generates an arbitrarily large amount of tokens, as would Angel of Invention or Hallowed Spiritkeeper when looped with Ashnod's Alter. The other day I won by making a million 0/1 spawns and then pumping them up the next turn by giving 1000 of them to the Mirror Entity thus making the spawns be 1000/1000 and swinging at the table. After I made the spawns, I was halfway hoping to see a Fumigate before it was my turn again.
I'm also running a Mimic Vat and I have high hopes for it, but I haven't seen it work yet.
I have a Coffin Queen and Shade's Form for recursion as well. I like the look of the Queen, but she has yet to do work for me.
Last for now, I have a Shield Sphere. I wanted a cheap, fat butt, to feed to Ayli and this guy won for now.
I appreciate any comments about these cards and their alternatives in the context of a recursion deck.
Thanks again for the good thread!
I added a Gift of Estates (besides the usual manarocks and Land Tax) to try to fix this.
Edit: my apologies, it looks like I’ve been complaining about this before (post #297), and forgot about it. Must be it’s really bothering me
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
I have exactly the same problems. My meta has a lot of highly tuned, fast and consistent decks and I kind of rely on others to keep those in check for the first few turns. Beyond turn 5 it's a whole different game though, and this deck can really take over.
Thx, I will for sure test this one! I was already considering adding Knight of the White Orchid, but this seems better because 1xW.
Also in that category, though worse than the other mentions, oreskos explorer also still exists
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Core Set 2019
Cleansing Nova - Alternative to Austere Command for those who value their modal spells, such as I. It doesn't give you quite the same amount of control over what dies, but can be very nice.
Desecrated Tomb - Interesting way to make a lot of sac fodder depending on your build. I imagine playing this alongside Reassembling Skeleton or Bloodghast and just making a lot of blockers or sac fodder could be pretty decent, but it entirely depends on how often you're pulling something from your graveyard.
Detection Tower - It's always great to have this effect. If you can't get your hands on Arcane Lighthouse, this isn't bad. The difference is in your build. Detection Tower doesn't remove Shroud, but does remove Hexproof from your opponent's creatures AND your opponents, themselves. Arcane Lighthouse gets rid of your opponent's creatures' Hexproof and Shroud, both, but not Hexproof on your opponent. An opponent having Hexproof themself rarely comes up in my experience, so it's entirely a meta call, but if you simply just want to get around Archetype of Endurance or Asceticism, then this is a nice solution that should be widely available as it was printed in a Standard product.
Commander 2019
Loyal Subordinate - The sole card that I feel is worth inclusion is Loyal Subordinate. It's very easy to keep Ayli on the battlefield with her low cost, and it's easy to get this guy back. 3 life per opponent per turn adds up. If you're playing Sanguine Bond it gets that much more ridiculous. Unfortunately I don't feel any of the other new cards in this year's decks are up to par or synergize with Ayli well. Skull Storm is 9 mana and your Commander will probably have been cast 2-4 times at most in a given game before it's over. Sower of Discord wants you to deal a steady amount of damage to opponents, and there's far easier ways to do that. Entreat the Dead does not work well for Ayli because if you draw it at the wrong time and don't have much in your graveyard yet or that is worth bringing back, it's going to be extremely hard to cast for anything meaningful after that and you may as well run Rise of the Dark Realms or Living Death, instead.
Thoughts and Comments!
@blatimer - Thank you for stopping by! I've read your post and I'm going to try to respond to you directly tomorrow when I have time to do a bigger post I'm happy this thread has been helpful!
-Boreas Charger is indeed a great card for Ayli if you find yourself needing ramp or having mana issues, and I would recommend it over similar cards like Knight of the White Orchid, for sure! My personal build hasn't ever had enough problems but for those who are struggling I'm sure this will be great.
-Yosei, the Morning Star lock, while absurd and effective, is generally something I play as a last resort these days when there's just no other way to survive or prevent another player from winning. The threat of him being on the table alone warps the game by making people very cautious of being blown out by him, and he often demands removal be used on him before you can use it at a very inopportune time. Still, definitely deploy this combo with great discretion for your own sakes
Hope everyone has been enjoying their Ayli decks!
(Also known as Xenphire)
Not a cheap option though with Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, and Mox Amber on board. Expedition Map and Weathered Wayfarer fetches me Ancient Tomb or the Coffer/Urborg synergy.
If I have money to spend iL even include a Mox Diamond but between the above cards what's left in my ramp arsenal is just Land Tax and Crypt Ghast and didn't feel lacking anymore.
I'd probably try to fit in Gilded Lotus and Mox Diamond over Mana Crypt and Mana Vault. Land Tax isn't bad, but I do try to avoid the Cabal Coffers type of effects just because we want enough utility lands that without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, they end up really low impact. The deck is more colored-mana hungry than anything. Mox Amber actually is pretty sweet for the deck because we run a lot of Legendary creatures and being able to have Ayli out early and usually stick on the board makes it a really tasty option!
(Also known as Xenphire)
1x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Ramp (9)
1x Sol Ring
1x Expedition Map
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Burnished Hart
1x Sword of the Animist
1x Pawn of Ulamog
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Kor Cartographer
Additional Card Draw (5)
1x Skullclamp
1x Filigree Familiar
1x Wall of Omens
1x Grim Haruspex
1x Disciple of Bolas
Sac Outlets (5)
1x Viscera Seer
1x Alter of Dementia
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Blasting Station
Removal (7)
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Viridian Longbow
1x Managara of Corondor
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Archon of Justice
1x Angel of Serenity
1x Ashen Rider
Recursion (14)
1x Nim Deathmantle
1x Dance of the Dead
1x Animate Dead
1x Corpse Dance
1x Gift of Immortality
1x Mimic Vat
1x Reveillark
1x Coffin Queen
1x Shade's Form
1x Karmic Guide
1x Unhallowed Pact
1x Sun Titan
1x Necromancy
1x Enduring Renewal
1x False Prophet
1x Dusk / Dawn
1x Wrath of God
Tutors (6)
1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Boonweaver Giant
1x Dmir House Guard
1x Taj-Nar Swordsmith
1x Heliod's Pilgrim
Utility (13)
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Deathrender
1x Zulaport Cutthroat
1x Vizkopa Guildmage
1x Restoration Specialist
1x Falkenrath Nobel
1x Angel of Invention
1x Shield Sphere
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Mirror Entity
1x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Hallowed Spiritkeeper
Lands (38)
1x High Market
1x Forsaken Sanctuary
1x Mirrorpool
1x Kor Haven
1x Temple of Silence
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Teramorphic Expanse
1x Nyxos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Command Tower
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Concealed Courtyard
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Tainted Field
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Field of Ruin
1x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1x Winding Canyons
1x Cascading Cataracts
1x Scoured Barrens
9x Plains
8x Swamp
As I mentioned before, I often attempt to achieve sub-optimal or otherwise pointless death loops and put them to work.
Goofy death loops include:
Leonin Relic-Warder and Animate dead/Necromancy/Dance of the Dead - Leonin can exile the enchantment, kill himself in the process, and when the enchantment returns it can pull back Leonin
Sun Titan/Boonweaver Giant and Gift of Immortality/Unhallowed Pact/Shade's Form and any sac outlet can loop the creature into death as many times as one likes.
Enduring Renewal and Deathrender plus any creature and any sac outlet. An ETB creature may win the game with it's ETB, but even a boring creature can be looped for death triggers.
With Blasting Station/Alter of Dementia/Falkenrath Noble/Zulaport Cutthroat these otherwise pointless loops can win.
I just added Viridian Longbow to try out. I'm looking forward to putting it onto a creature with deathtouch or lifelink or both. We'll see how it plays in my group. I'd be way better off with more efficient removal, but I don't play to be the most efficient. I can also see a freak win happening if I generate enough spawns with a Pawn of Ulamog (any arbitrarily large number of spawns is possible with one of those otherwise pointless loops). I could repeatedly equip the longbow to a spawn, ping something or someone for a damage, sac the spawn for mana and repeat.
Other goofy combos I might look for:
loop Gonti, Lord of Luxury to mill opponents to death
loop Filigree Familiar with a Vizkopa Guildmage life gain trigger in effect to kill everyone else
sac a bunch of spawns or tokens to Ayli with a Vizkopa Guildmage life gain trigger in effect to kill everyone else for the win
attack with an absurdly large Carrion Feeder and or sac it to Ayli with a Vizkopa Guildmage life gain trigger in effect
use Mirrorpool to copy Sun Titan, use Sun Titan to bring back Mirrorpool and repeat until the titans overwhelm the opposition or bring back everything else from the graveyard
I have yet to get anything interesting into Mimic Vat but this deck seems full of great things to copy.
If you have any suggestions for uncommon or high card count combos that fit in with what I have here, let me know. I like the strange stuff.
Or if you have comments or questions, please share.
you got me thinking removing Coffers and Urborg.