Hey bob, just curious as to why you still have the Necrotic Ooze combo in the OP instead of switching it to the Dread Return -> Phyrexian Delver -> Mikaeus, the Unhallowed -> Flashback Cabal Therapy -> Triskelion line which both requires no mana to start it and uses a smaller number of slots in your deck.
Have you considered Pithing Needle? I know you mentioned laying out the core first, but when it comes time it seems like it'd be good for Nihil Spellbomb and sit on board trying to keep you locked from GY combos. An effect like that is on creatures/artifacts so it's a good catch-all. It's pretty hand to shut down the best rock/dork on the table early game if you're not it or need to slow someone down.
Pithing Needle is a great card, since it can also stop that fairy that can discard to exile cards.
===
I've updated the OP with new lists (not on the other sites though), and started explaing the combos in the OP. This will take a while, but any critiques on the lists/write up would be nice.
I'll fix the ordering/organization of the lists later. It's confusing since several cards can be in several areas.
Have you considered Pithing Needle? I know you mentioned laying out the core first, but when it comes time it seems like it'd be good for Nihil Spellbomb and sit on board trying to keep you locked from GY combos. An effect like that is on creatures/artifacts so it's a good catch-all. It's pretty hand to shut down the best rock/dork on the table early game if you're not it or need to slow someone down.
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
I know it's tuned to be the most competitive combo deck with the Toad but I was wondering if it's possible to do a fairly competitive combo deck without these bigger pieces? Also, with what cheaper cards could I replace them? :
Certainly. Initially I didn't even have several of them in the list, since I don't own some of them (Chains, Imperial Seal). If you follow the tapped out link (which I used to goldfish a few hands), that list was fairly reliable for a turn 4 combo.
You can replace the cards with either more cheap draw (Night's Whisper variants), free cantrips (Street Wraith), and other 1 drop acceleration in the form of cheap elves.
Since the original list also didn't feature a lot of removal or disruption, you could use those slots to add you abrupt decay and inquisition effects, and then tweak the list as needed.
- I'll take the credit too. How did every single person miss this gem?
Sadly, Warped Devotion does not work. Permanents only exist on the battlefield, so this card only works on things bounced to your hand from play, it doesn't work when you return a card from a graveyard.
This is the deck you currently have posted in the OP, however it's 105 cards. I'd also consider adding an alternate substitution for Imperial Seal/Bazaar since A LOT of people can't afford those 2 cards specifically. I fixed the formatting, but have no idea what 5 cards I'm suppose to remove to make it correct.
This is the deck you currently have posted in the OP, however it's 105 cards. I'd also consider adding an alternate substitution for Imperial Seal/Bazaar since A LOT of people can't afford those 2 cards specifically. I fixed the formatting, but have no idea what 5 cards I'm suppose to remove to make it correct.
This is the deck you currently have posted in the OP, however it's 105 cards. I'd also consider adding an alternate substitution for Imperial Seal/Bazaar since A LOT of people can't afford those 2 cards specifically. I fixed the formatting, but have no idea what 5 cards I'm suppose to remove to make it correct.
This is the deck you currently have posted in the OP, however it's 105 cards. I'd also consider adding an alternate substitution for Imperial Seal/Bazaar since A LOT of people can't afford those 2 cards specifically. I fixed the formatting, but have no idea what 5 cards I'm suppose to remove to make it correct.
Wouldn't Thornling be a better option than Skithirix in this version? Granting indestructible (for half the mana cost!) over Regeneration would be more optimal. Also, it gives you trample in the unlikely scenario that an opponent has hexproof and you need to kill that way.
Wouldn't Thornling be a better option than Skithirix in this version? Granting indestructible (for half the mana cost!) over Regeneration would be more optimal. Also, it gives you trample in the unlikely scenario that an opponent has hexproof and you need to kill that way.
I considered Thornling but in the end decided that Skittles was better, as we'd more likely have extra black mana to start with, since ooze will get the ability of Skirge Familiar in the graveyard. It's a small corner case, but in the event that you need to get the haste to kick off the combo, that's your more common mana availability.
How awkward. I'll look into the card count problems.
Any luck fixing it? I've been wanting to play test this but have no idea what to remove, etc since I've never played it or seen it played. Also do you think the titan loop or non-titan version is better/more competitive?
How awkward. I'll look into the card count problems.
Any luck fixing it? I've been wanting to play test this but have no idea what to remove, etc since I've never played it or seen it played. Also do you think the titan loop or non-titan version is better/more competitive?
Sorry, haven't gotten a chance yet. Been a busy few days. Some of it might end up just needing tweaking based on your personal preferences anyways.
The Titan-loop is likely the more competitive, as long as you're knowledgeable of the rules, and how the 4 horseman situation occurs. This is mostly due to the combo taking up less card slots, which then allows you to have an increased amount of disruption in the deck.
EDIT:
I just did a pass over both decks to bring some card counts in line. Mostly I took out the weakest dredge engine (since you'll just tutor for one of the good ones anyways), some of the card draw (it's mostly just tech choices), and a little bit of the weaker disruption (Xathrid Swarm, needs to be in play before you go off).
Ad Naus, some extra disruption, etc, remains tech adds to tweak with depending on the meta you run into.
Played with a very similar deck (Ooze Combo, no Titans) for the first time last night. My thoughts are simple. Deck needs a plan B. Smart players will see this coming from a mile away and at least SOMEONE at the table will leave their guard up if you have any of the usual combo pieces known to be in hand or on the battlefield.
My first order of business will be tailoring the deck to run ooze OR Yawg Will combo as they use, mostly, separate pieces. Deck also needs some kind of redundancy for Dread Return getting exiled.
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===
I've updated the OP with new lists (not on the other sites though), and started explaing the combos in the OP. This will take a while, but any critiques on the lists/write up would be nice.
I'll fix the ordering/organization of the lists later. It's confusing since several cards can be in several areas.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Pithing Needle does not shut down mana abilities.
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EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
LED
Bob
Imperial Seal
Mana Crypt
Mox Diamond
Vampiric Tutor
Sylvan Library
Burgeoning
Chains of Mephistopheles
From the OP list I own pretty much all of the other cards.
Note that I'm looking at the non-titan combo version
thanks for your help
You can replace the cards with either more cheap draw (Night's Whisper variants), free cantrips (Street Wraith), and other 1 drop acceleration in the form of cheap elves.
Since the original list also didn't feature a lot of removal or disruption, you could use those slots to add you abrupt decay and inquisition effects, and then tweak the list as needed.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
- I'll take the credit too. How did every single person miss this gem?
What purpose would Warped Devotion serve?
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR
Thats it. Thats all I got. I know my way out, I can show myself the door.
I love it!
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
1 The Gitrog Monster
Creature (22)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Bloodghast
1 Bloodrite Invoker
1 Dark Confidant
1 Devoted Druid
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Golgari Thug
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Putrid Imp
1 Quillspike
1 Skirge Familiar
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Wild Mongrel
Artifact (9)
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring
1 Zuran Orb
1 Burgeoning
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Exploration
1 Necropotence
1 Oblivion Crown
1 Squandered Resources
1 Sylvan Library
Instant (14)
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Culling the Weak
1 Dark Ritual
1 Darkblast
1 Entomb
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Nature's Claim
1 Rain of Filth
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorcery (12)
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dread Return
1 Duress
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Imperial Seal
1 Life from the Loam
1 Night's Whisper
1 Raven's Crime
1 Sign in Blood
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Thoughtseize
1 Barren Moor
1 Bayou
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Blasted Landscape
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Ebon Stronghold
1 Evolving Wilds
8 Forest
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Havenwood Battleground
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Lotus Vale
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Polluted Mire
1 Slippery Karst
7 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
This is the deck you currently have posted in the OP, however it's 105 cards. I'd also consider adding an alternate substitution for Imperial Seal/Bazaar since A LOT of people can't afford those 2 cards specifically. I fixed the formatting, but have no idea what 5 cards I'm suppose to remove to make it correct.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
- Skithirix, the Blight Dragon
- Necrotic Ooze
- Quillspike
- Bloodrite Invoker
- Insidious Dreams
There you go.Also, has anyone in this thread mentioned Doomsday yet? Couldn't you just use that as an Easy Button to set up the Dakmor Salvage nonsense?
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Is that what you recommend removing or is that what the OP runs?
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Isn't the core combo of the non-Titan loop variant Necrotic Ooze on the field and a graveyard of Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon to grant haste, Devoted Druid + Quillspike to generate infinite mana, and Bloodrite Invoker to dump all the mana in to?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Any luck fixing it? I've been wanting to play test this but have no idea what to remove, etc since I've never played it or seen it played. Also do you think the titan loop or non-titan version is better/more competitive?
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
The Titan-loop is likely the more competitive, as long as you're knowledgeable of the rules, and how the 4 horseman situation occurs. This is mostly due to the combo taking up less card slots, which then allows you to have an increased amount of disruption in the deck.
EDIT:
I just did a pass over both decks to bring some card counts in line. Mostly I took out the weakest dredge engine (since you'll just tutor for one of the good ones anyways), some of the card draw (it's mostly just tech choices), and a little bit of the weaker disruption (Xathrid Swarm, needs to be in play before you go off).
Ad Naus, some extra disruption, etc, remains tech adds to tweak with depending on the meta you run into.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
My first order of business will be tailoring the deck to run ooze OR Yawg Will combo as they use, mostly, separate pieces. Deck also needs some kind of redundancy for Dread Return getting exiled.
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RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
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