Wild Defiance feels like it could run the risk of being 'win-more'. If we already have our engine online and we're casting spells, I'd rather play an additional cantrip, because at least that can help us draw into something if we needed it.
I think the possible downside of Mirrorwing Dragon isn't really an issue, the vast majority of decks don't run any ways to turn this against us. I'm just not sold on the concept of adding additional copies of this effect just yet.
Yes, I get how Zada, Hedron Grinder, Mirrorwing Dragon and Ink-Treader Nephilim all have slightly different abilities. What I'm saying, and what I think akroma44 is saying as well, is that there aren't a ton of Survive the Nights floating around a typical EDH pod. While it's true that an opponent could potentially get a lot of value out of casing Bandage on your Mirrorwing Dragon, I just don't see that as being very likely to materialize in many actual games.
Edit: Wow, I just realized that Wild Defiance cares only about when a creature becomes the target of a spell, not about when a spell that targets a creature is cast. That could be pretty nuts here.
I guess you're right, you can just choose to not cast Mirrorwing Dragon if you can see it's too beneficial for your opponents. I guess you can add it for redundancy's sake.
I got in a game with Ink-Treader Nephilim last night. It was probably the strangest game of commander I have ever played. Kiku, Night's Flower big mana and removal, Tasigur, the Golden Fang combo, and me. For whatever reason, Tasigur cannot go off. My commander get killed twice, and 8 mana is a tall order. Kiku starts Strip Mine locking both of us. There are 3 Toxic Deluges cast in this game. After an excruciating 7-8 turns of nobody really doing anything except trying not to die while getting Mind Twist'd, I get a mana dork.
Eventually, I get Jeskai Ascendancy out, and manage a mana dork. I loot with empty hand and dump Past in Flames. I use cantrips in graveyard to draw one card at a time until I get Noxious Revival, and put Earthcraft back on the library, which I loot into my hand (Discarding a land). I have one Island and a Chromatic Lantern, so I get mana that way. I eventually loot into Sprout Swarm, and win by attacking with my single mana dork... I guess I didn't really need my commander to win.
Note to self, keep track of mana, and Ascendancy triggers.
Cards to add: Cryptolith Rite, and perhaps another mana dork or two.
Jeskai Ascendancy is bonkers with untapping mana dorks. I've seen the abuse being done with it in decks like Modern Jeskai Ascendancy.
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Just took out my own version of this deck and won with Mirror Entity. My opponent had 60ish life thanks in part to Ivory Tower, he also had a large army thanks to Rise of the Dark Realms. I was able to deal 90 damage by swinging all out with menace from Firemantle Mage. Very happy with this deck so far. Can't wait to continue upgrading it.
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Oh btw, I have found Unity of Purpose to be insane. You target Zada with a single support and no one else. It copies and as each resolves all creatures with +1/+1 counters untap for each copy! So the first copy to resolve will cause that creature to untap multiple times.
So say 5 guys in play. At the end of all of it, each guy will have a counter the first guy will untap 5 times, the second 4 times, third guy 3 times, etc until Zada untaps with everyone else last.
This is clearly amazing with mana dorks and Cryptolith Rite. Also obviously good with tap abilities on creatures.
I haven't been playing the deck much, unfortunately. My playgroup has skewed towards a lower power level recently, so I've been playing a version of the deck that runs a ton of energy creatures and outlets, using Zada as a means of generating absurd amounts of energy. It's fun, but not good by any stretch of the imagination.
From recent sets, the cards I'd be interesting in testing are Sevala, Heart of the Wilds, Magus of the Will, Recruiter of the Guard, and Ydris, Maelstrom Wielder if I was feeling adventurous.
And @Riverwolf, i didn't realize Support would work that way, that's pretty strong. I'll have to test it out should I remake the deck.
"Support N" means "Put a +1/+1 counter on each of up to N target creatures." In many cases, you'll choose two creatures as you cast Shoulder to Shoulder. But it's okay to choose fewer targets. If you control only one creature, it's fine to cast Shoulder to Shoulder targeting it to give it a +1/+1 counter. In fact, you can cast Shoulder to Shoulder with no targets just to draw a card. It may not be the best use of it, but in the fight against the Eldrazi, sometimes you do what you have to do."
Taken from the mechanics article for Oath of the Gatewatch. Just for reference.
I just got an idea.... but I'm not really sure if it works.
Plot:
You have Zada, Hedron Grinder on field and for example Hagra diabolist then Play Rite of Replication with kicker on zada.
Let's say you have 4 allies on field.
4 * 5 allies copies = 20 allies enter the battlefield. Hagra diabolist Triggers 20 times and can deal 480 damage (20 * 24 (amount of allies))
And at the end of stack you Need to sacrifice the 5 Zadas due legendary rule...
would that Szenario work?
EDIT: I think I see the issue. The copies of the spell are not resolved at once, right?
in that case it would be less dmg. the Hedron copies would come last... and the others can ya arrange on stack so that Hagra diabolist is just before Zada. So 13 Allies on field then 5x Hagra diabolist one is already on the field... so 6x 18 = 108 dmg... Still not bad. ad with more allies even more fun and who knows what they can
Or the other way around... first Hagra diabolist then all others and it would Trigger every time and with each resolving Rite of Replication the damage would increase... but that's too much to calculate now
I'm thinking about to build a similar deck but with the Intention to Trigger ally abilities... and I know 2 instand/sorceries that copy creatures... would be fun to target Zada.
"If you search me, I am near insanity, more exactly on the thin line between insanity and panic, round the coner of agony, not far from absurdity and idiocy."
Zada in play with a Hagra Diabolist and a kicked Rite of Replication would cause 5 copies of Diabolist to come into play first. This causes 6 total Diabolists to see 5 allies come into play at once. So 30 triggers happen, each with 7 damage (current number of allies) so there is 210 damage. Then 5 Zadas come into play and promptly die but they will also cause 30 triggers. I am pretty sure the 5 Zadas die before being counted for the Diabolists. So you will get another 210 damage.
So thats 420 damage off two allies and Rite with kicker.
Heck, Diabolist alone with a kicked Rite results in 180 damage.
And Kalastria Healer alone with Rite is 30 damage to all and 30 life to you.
I think the possible downside of Mirrorwing Dragon isn't really an issue, the vast majority of decks don't run any ways to turn this against us. I'm just not sold on the concept of adding additional copies of this effect just yet.
I guess you're right, you can just choose to not cast Mirrorwing Dragon if you can see it's too beneficial for your opponents. I guess you can add it for redundancy's sake.
Jeskai Ascendancy is bonkers with untapping mana dorks. I've seen the abuse being done with it in decks like Modern Jeskai Ascendancy.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
So say 5 guys in play. At the end of all of it, each guy will have a counter the first guy will untap 5 times, the second 4 times, third guy 3 times, etc until Zada untaps with everyone else last.
This is clearly amazing with mana dorks and Cryptolith Rite. Also obviously good with tap abilities on creatures.
From recent sets, the cards I'd be interesting in testing are Sevala, Heart of the Wilds, Magus of the Will, Recruiter of the Guard, and Ydris, Maelstrom Wielder if I was feeling adventurous.
And @Riverwolf, i didn't realize Support would work that way, that's pretty strong. I'll have to test it out should I remake the deck.
Taken from the mechanics article for Oath of the Gatewatch. Just for reference.
Plot:
You have Zada, Hedron Grinder on field and for example Hagra diabolist then Play Rite of Replication with kicker on zada.
Let's say you have 4 allies on field.
4 * 5 allies copies = 20 allies enter the battlefield.
Hagra diabolist Triggers 20 times and can deal 480 damage (20 * 24 (amount of allies))
And at the end of stack you Need to sacrifice the 5 Zadas due legendary rule...
would that Szenario work?
EDIT: I think I see the issue. The copies of the spell are not resolved at once, right?
in that case it would be less dmg. the Hedron copies would come last... and the others can ya arrange on stack so that Hagra diabolist is just before Zada. So 13 Allies on field then 5x Hagra diabolist one is already on the field... so 6x 18 = 108 dmg... Still not bad. ad with more allies even more fun and who knows what they can
Or the other way around... first Hagra diabolist then all others and it would Trigger every time and with each resolving Rite of Replication the damage would increase... but that's too much to calculate now
I'm thinking about to build a similar deck but with the Intention to Trigger ally abilities... and I know 2 instand/sorceries that copy creatures... would be fun to target Zada.
greez evul
So thats 420 damage off two allies and Rite with kicker.
Heck, Diabolist alone with a kicked Rite results in 180 damage.
And Kalastria Healer alone with Rite is 30 damage to all and 30 life to you.