I agree with you on the caravan, it doesn't excite me whatsoever in this shell (and, in fact, would require a very particular shell with a 3 power utility commander with a small butt for me to consider playing it at all given the abundance of better rocks). Now that it's not 1am, I'll try to articulate my trail of thought a bit better, as I still think it could be an interesting thing to try. Smuggler's Copter is quite akin to the magical Sword of Rampant Growth in that I expect people to completely ignore it and let me accrue card filtering advantage over the course of the game. It's far from a commander powerhouse, at the time of writing this message EDHREC lists 127 non-Depala lists running it. This is a stark contrast to the 1866 lists with Panharmonicon, a fellow Kaladesh card that got immediately embraced by the community. The Copter offers a similar sort of quality of life upgrade to having a Sword of Fire and Ice or a Mask of Memory on the field, albeit in a subtler fashion as you don't extract explicit card advantage but merely card quality. As such, I fully expect it to heavily fly under the radar, letting me work its value in the shadows time and time again. Once again, similar sort of value work to Sword of Rampant Growth or the surprisingly "fair" manner in which the deck uses Skullclamp. The lack of card advantage is further compensated by its standalone two mana nature (turn two this, turn three Daxos, crew, swing, loot, value town), while both the equipment options require a body to slap onto. I mean, the commander is nominally a body, but I can't imagine him getting free reign with those equipments like the derpy rampant growth swings. This is more of a problem with Mask of Memory than Sword of Fire and Ice, but the latter looks like a power play and draws uncalled for attention. If anything, Copter's main weakness is that it doesn't play too well with Sword of the Animist itself, requiring a second derp city attacking body or two mana a turn. The $15 aspect is irrelevant - I walked away with the green gearhulk after a redraft and traded for it with a friend on the basis of both being horribly overpriced standard trash So, with all this verbal fleshing out in place, what do you make of it? Do you agree that it's a fun little quality of life under the radar thing, or is it just underplayed in EDH as it's overpriced standard trash?
Moment of clarity obtained. The above reasoning is still sound for what it is, but a more fitting comparison would be something like Phyrexian Arena. Comes down, is an enchantment, stays there, provides value no matter what. As such, what's the best of those sort of effects which I'm not running at the moment? Probably Underworld Connections. It's essentially an Arena variant that surrenders a land to function, which is not ideal as this list sure likes its mana. Am I going to start running Underworld Connections? No. As such, the Copter isn't quite as neat as I thought it was going to be. The strength of Sword of the Animist is that nothing else lets me casually rampant growth every turn in WB. It's all a matter of perspective, and I took the wrong one here.
The reason why I mention the price tag is that I think it is a pretty common denominator of who is running a powerful deck. If I see very expensive cards come out very early, then I assume that persons a threat (and so should others). The Thopter may look derpy but its price tag isn't, so that would make someone suspicious of your deck which is what you're exactly trying to avoid until you can throw the lock down.
But it looks like you talked yourself out from the ledge.
The reason why I mention the price tag is that I think it is a pretty common denominator of who is running a powerful deck. If I see very expensive cards come out very early, then I assume that persons a threat (and so should others). The Thopter may look derpy but its price tag isn't, so that would make someone suspicious of your deck which is what you're exactly trying to avoid until you can throw the lock down.
But it looks like you talked yourself out from the ledge.
Price tag alone doesn't mean anything. Would you focus someone who played a Tarmogoyf? If anything, you'd probably laugh them off as clueless about the format. Copter's price tag is driven by standard, not EDH, so I'd imagine it'll elicit a similar reaction. But yeah, not going to run it in here. It'll find a home somewhere else in due time.
So I was able to get some action for Daxos a little while ago (tough to do with so many decks now, but w/e) during a nice three-man sit-down with my roommate (who is one of those people who frowns on graveyard hate in EDH and conveniently has the deck that benefits the most from having a full bin) and downstairs neighbor (who is a chill dude). Neither of them have seen Daxos in action yet.
Roommate's playing Breya, Etherium Shaper (modified from the precon; typical artifact value shenanigans), neighbor's playing Brion Stoutarm (pretty well-tuned Equipment-matters deck; known for running wacky and crippling cards in his Sunforger package).
Early turns consist of an early Daxos and Lightning Greaves to protect him. Breya's a turn behind thanks to all of her lands coming into play tapped, and Brion has just entered play. I slam Skybind on turn four, and my opponents comment on how it's "a neat value engine" with Daxos. Ohhh, if only they knew...
Anyways, I'm adding random enchantments to the board - Phyrexian Reclamation, Spirit of the Labyrinth, etc - and generally staying out of trouble, using Skybind to blink my lands. Eventually I draw the ire of the table by playing Thoughtrender Lamia. My foes begin the process of steadily pitching cards. Finally, Breya attempts a power move with Sharuum the Hegemon (dammit, Lamia). She's slowly building up an attack force, and I'm a little pinched on white mana, so Righteous Aura isn't looking particularly helpful. Brion has found Stonehewer Giant (and by extension, Sunforger) and Mirran Crusader. I have to save Aura activations for Crusader, which lets Sharuum slam into me for a turn or two.
Agent of Erebos joins the team, which makes Breya complain. I get Necropotence into play and get one turn's worth of cards out of it before it's promptly Disenchanted by Brion. I'm prepared to answer Sharuum with the Ashen Rider I've drawn into (not that it would have worked anyway with Breya in play, but w/e) when Brion casts Austere Command on his next turn. Much to my chagrin, he chooses to name enchantments and small creatures, which pulverizes my board while leaving Breya relatively unscathed. I guess between Necro, Spirit, Rule of Law, and the Thoughtrender, I should have expected the table to collude against - oh, look at that, Replenish off the top.
Now my opponents have no hand, no graveyard, Skybind is going STUPID, and Attrition is picking off their creatures. Rule of Law prevents topdecked tutors from finding another answer, and I use the turn's worth of time to make a heap of 12/12 Spirits with Daxos and kill the table.
TL;DR: "Daxos is bad? Yeah, that's what everyone tells me. Anyways, attack you for 72."
I like when people blow up Necropotence (unless they use Krosan Grip). "Yeah, that's going to resolve, but first I'm going to activate Necro a few times."
Hence my use of a foil copy of that to attract attention to it.
I like when people blow up Necropotence (unless they use Krosan Grip). "Yeah, that's going to resolve, but first I'm going to activate Necro a few times."
Hence my use of a foil copy of that to attract attention to it.
The part that kills me is that I was accused of "using Necro as a crutch" when they killed it a second time and I showed them a Monk Idealist (which I had originally planned to use to retrieve Necro post-Austere Command before Replenish showed up). Necro wasn't what killed them. The stax pieces killed them. Necro was just for rubbins.
TL;DR: "Daxos is bad? Yeah, that's what everyone tells me. Anyways, attack you for 72."
Haha, well said. He may not be a tier 1 menace but he is really underestimated. I pretty much always win when I pilot Daxos with my group. I find people are generally bad at separating what works in 1v1 and what works in 4v4. Sometimes having an obviously powerful commander like Zur or Deveri (stupid good in 1v1) is bad in 4v4 just because people know the Zur deck is threat priority #1 and gun for it. Meanwhile no one is keeping track of Daxos' xp tokens until it's too late.
I've been getting games in with my Daxos and I'm starting to think of it as a 'Rorschach Deck'. You're black, white and while all of this funky stax is slowly getting to play, your opponents don't understand that you're not in here with them; they're locked in here with you.
Great stuff all around, from the game report to the Rorschach deck and whatnot. The image is a special kind of beautiful though. Anybody got photoshop-fu, or know someone with photoshop-fu, to turn this concept into a proper banner with some other stuff on it? My skills in that department are severely lacking, it takes no ability whatsoever to make MLG crap like the banner on my other primer.
Great stuff all around, from the game report to the Rorschach deck and whatnot. The image is a special kind of beautiful though. Anybody got photoshop-fu, or know someone with photoshop-fu, to turn this concept into a proper banner with some other stuff on it? My skills in that department are severely lacking, it takes no ability whatsoever to make MLG crap like the banner on my other primer.
I've never made a magic banner but I have some Photoshop skills. I make no promises but if I find some free time I'll look into it. What else would you like to see in the banner?
Great stuff all around, from the game report to the Rorschach deck and whatnot. The image is a special kind of beautiful though. Anybody got photoshop-fu, or know someone with photoshop-fu, to turn this concept into a proper banner with some other stuff on it? My skills in that department are severely lacking, it takes no ability whatsoever to make MLG crap like the banner on my other primer.
I've never made a magic banner but I have some Photoshop skills. I make no promises but if I find some free time I'll look into it. What else would you like to see in the banner?
Neat!
It would be nice to include some of the deck's iconic cards in the banner. Some stuff that comes to mind, crudely sorted on importance (so feel free to cut off after, say, four of these if the banner would be too crowded):
I have a similar version of the deck but my list isn't very tuned because I don't have time to play EDH very often.
I wanted to get an opinion about Heartstone from from people that have played the deck. The few times I've played I've had trouble getting many activations of Daxos' ability. I thought that this might be helpful but I could also imagine it being essentially a worse Ur-Golem's Eye.
I think it's a dead card. The solution is to just have more mana. While Serra Sanctum would be an unreasonable card to ask you to have, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is still affordable (but I question when it'll start going up in price). The requirement of having your guys come down at Instant Speed is also why you can't use Black Market.
Failing with massive mana, mana rocks do help out a lot. Even just a Worn Powerstone.
Not particularly keen on any of the three cards mentioned recently. Heartstone only works with Daxos tokens, and is only good in narrow scenarios. It's preferable to have standard mana rocks as they also help accelerate other plays regardless of game state. Ethersworn Canonist and Curse of Exhaustion are both quite subpar in contrast to the original, or even Eidolon of Rhetoric. Crucially, Rule of Law effects don't stack, so going deep on them just to have a lot of copies in the 99 offers greatly diminishing returns in comparison to something like constant card dribbling. I mean, if they print actual Rule of Law #3 I'm obviously going to find room for it, but neither of those are quite that tier of goodness.
The big reason why I don't care for Ethersworn Canonist is that it's occasionally a hindrance; there are plenty of artifact-heavy decks out there that will appreciate being the only ones able to cast spells.
I figured as much but just wanted to hear it from the horses mouth. I have a bad habit of getting suckered into "clever cards".
We all do. EDH is a format of self-expression and Johnny City An easy way to get out of this trap is to evaluate each card's standalone value outside of the synergies you're keen for the card to participate in. Sometimes the synergies are just so strong you keep the card anyway - there's no pretending Palinchron is going to do many relevant things outside of his infinite mana combos. A lot of the time this helps see the bigger picture and avoid feelbads later on.
I know this suggestion might sound out of place but what about Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter? While expensive to cast, it comes with a HUGE flying body with the ability to machine gun the board. Daxos provides the sac fodder which should make Vish Kal obscenely huge. I mean, if nothing else, he could one-punch people to death.
You can't machine gun the board because he loses all the counters. It would be way better if it was take a +1/+1 off to give -1/-1, but I guess that's asking for too much.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
But it looks like you talked yourself out from the ledge.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Price tag alone doesn't mean anything. Would you focus someone who played a Tarmogoyf? If anything, you'd probably laugh them off as clueless about the format. Copter's price tag is driven by standard, not EDH, so I'd imagine it'll elicit a similar reaction. But yeah, not going to run it in here. It'll find a home somewhere else in due time.
Roommate's playing Breya, Etherium Shaper (modified from the precon; typical artifact value shenanigans), neighbor's playing Brion Stoutarm (pretty well-tuned Equipment-matters deck; known for running wacky and crippling cards in his Sunforger package).
Early turns consist of an early Daxos and Lightning Greaves to protect him. Breya's a turn behind thanks to all of her lands coming into play tapped, and Brion has just entered play. I slam Skybind on turn four, and my opponents comment on how it's "a neat value engine" with Daxos. Ohhh, if only they knew...
Anyways, I'm adding random enchantments to the board - Phyrexian Reclamation, Spirit of the Labyrinth, etc - and generally staying out of trouble, using Skybind to blink my lands. Eventually I draw the ire of the table by playing Thoughtrender Lamia. My foes begin the process of steadily pitching cards. Finally, Breya attempts a power move with Sharuum the Hegemon (dammit, Lamia). She's slowly building up an attack force, and I'm a little pinched on white mana, so Righteous Aura isn't looking particularly helpful. Brion has found Stonehewer Giant (and by extension, Sunforger) and Mirran Crusader. I have to save Aura activations for Crusader, which lets Sharuum slam into me for a turn or two.
Agent of Erebos joins the team, which makes Breya complain. I get Necropotence into play and get one turn's worth of cards out of it before it's promptly Disenchanted by Brion. I'm prepared to answer Sharuum with the Ashen Rider I've drawn into (not that it would have worked anyway with Breya in play, but w/e) when Brion casts Austere Command on his next turn. Much to my chagrin, he chooses to name enchantments and small creatures, which pulverizes my board while leaving Breya relatively unscathed. I guess between Necro, Spirit, Rule of Law, and the Thoughtrender, I should have expected the table to collude against - oh, look at that, Replenish off the top.
Now my opponents have no hand, no graveyard, Skybind is going STUPID, and Attrition is picking off their creatures. Rule of Law prevents topdecked tutors from finding another answer, and I use the turn's worth of time to make a heap of 12/12 Spirits with Daxos and kill the table.
TL;DR: "Daxos is bad? Yeah, that's what everyone tells me. Anyways, attack you for 72."
Hence my use of a foil copy of that to attract attention to it.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
The part that kills me is that I was accused of "using Necro as a crutch" when they killed it a second time and I showed them a Monk Idealist (which I had originally planned to use to retrieve Necro post-Austere Command before Replenish showed up). Necro wasn't what killed them. The stax pieces killed them. Necro was just for rubbins.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Neat!
It would be nice to include some of the deck's iconic cards in the banner. Some stuff that comes to mind, crudely sorted on importance (so feel free to cut off after, say, four of these if the banner would be too crowded):
If possible, it would be nice if the arts were made to feel like part of one image rather than an explicit collage. Thankses!
I'm feeling pretty good about this, you guys. Can't wait to see what Reaper comes up with!
I wanted to get an opinion about Heartstone from from people that have played the deck. The few times I've played I've had trouble getting many activations of Daxos' ability. I thought that this might be helpful but I could also imagine it being essentially a worse Ur-Golem's Eye.
Failing with massive mana, mana rocks do help out a lot. Even just a Worn Powerstone.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Also, when you're getting into the 'kingmaker' stage of the game, there's Curse of Exhaustion to cut one player down.
Thoughts fellow Daxosers?
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
We all do. EDH is a format of self-expression and Johnny City An easy way to get out of this trap is to evaluate each card's standalone value outside of the synergies you're keen for the card to participate in. Sometimes the synergies are just so strong you keep the card anyway - there's no pretending Palinchron is going to do many relevant things outside of his infinite mana combos. A lot of the time this helps see the bigger picture and avoid feelbads later on.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)