How crucial is Chains of Mephistopheles? Is it mainly there to fill up your graveyard so that you have more options to "reanimate" with Meren?
It's really good agianst decks that really wants to draw, U decks in particular. You pair it with Mindslicer so you'll slow them down significantly. It affects all extra draws.
This. I've neglected to grab one for months, because I'm a scrub who prefers to foil his deck out haha. No seriously, I have terrible priorities, but at least the deck is pretty! Id love to have a Chains and Nether Void for the deck (and a real Cradle, I'm proxying, but I should proxy those too)
I think it's fine. Right now, I'm proxying 3 cards. Just prioritize the important ones first.
On the other hand, I just got my Chains of Mephistopheles and this is my current list right now.
So I wanna talk about each change individually. So we're adding the Hulk package to the deck as other competitive Meren decks have done. Tooth and Nail was also considered as a cut. I also cant find my boreal druid, or I would swap it for Devoted Druid
Birthing Pod: This one hurts, but I never see this card and when I do, two situations occur:
* I'm either unable to cast it due to needing to prioritize other threats or removal so I cannot safely drop it.
* It is destroyed before it generates much value
That being said, I hope to fit it back in sometime. I have a gorgeous japanese foil I was using, and atm I have no other deck for it!
Skullclamp: Holdover from Midrange Meren that still does work even in a more competitive shell. It's one I want to work back in with a high priority, as it still does work, just much less since casting Meren is less of a priority.
Sylvok Replica: A very bad version of Caustic Caterpillar, but one that also helped me deal with Torpor Orb. In addition, the need for a sac outlet on a stick with a useful effect is another holdover from the midrange deck. The issue is now that Cursed Totem effects hurt us more, so it's become a high cost bad card. I wont be working this back in.
Hermit Druid: I've gotten to test this only in goldfishing and it wasn't amazing. As I expected, I dumped more than I wanted into the grave and having Meren built up, all midrange style, or with Reanimation/Reclamation available wasn't something I wanted to rely on. It may work its way back as I wanna try it in a real game.
Shaman of Forgotten Ways: Another one I'd like to work back in, but much less so. I've not been able to activate his Formidable ability except when this was ran more midrangey. Now it's more or less a more expensive Bloom Tender which we also dont run.
Jarad's Orders: Final holdover cut from the midrange deck that still can do work, its cost is not worth the inclusion. I feel it opens me too much to hand, graveyard, and general hate.
I just would like to thank gromgrom and Xentago (as well as the other contributors in this thread) for sharing their expertise and experiences with Meren. I am very fascinated by her potential as a commander and am looking forward to trying these decks out.
I made a mistake in dropping Pod, I was in a hurry last night. This may also be a mistake, as Defense really depends on the meta, but I'm gonna see how it does without it. Honestly I'd like to remove Pattern and Defense as they're both pretty bad competitively and aren't consistent. Devoted for Boreal since we focus less on Meren, and more on needing immediate ramps.
How crucial is Chains of Mephistopheles? Is it mainly there to fill up your graveyard so that you have more options to "reanimate" with Meren?
It's really good agianst decks that really wants to draw, U decks in particular. You pair it with Mindslicer so you'll slow them down significantly. It affects all extra draws.
This. I've neglected to grab one for months, because I'm a scrub who prefers to foil his deck out haha. No seriously, I have terrible priorities, but at least the deck is pretty! Id love to have a Chains and Nether Void for the deck (and a real Cradle, I'm proxying, but I should proxy those too)
I think it's fine. Right now, I'm proxying 3 cards. Just prioritize the important ones first.
On the other hand, I just got my Chains of Mephistopheles and this is my current list right now.
I may have to try Ramunap Excavator. Not sold on him in Meren yet, but it seems super gooood.
Liliana of the Veil, how has she worked out for you? she seems underwhelming in this format.
I just would like to thank gromgrom and Xentago (as well as the other contributors in this thread) for sharing their expertise and experiences with Meren. I am very fascinated by her potential as a commander and am looking forward to trying these decks out.
Thanks again!
Thanks brother! /r/cedh on reddit also has some helpful contributors as well.
How crucial is Chains of Mephistopheles? Is it mainly there to fill up your graveyard so that you have more options to "reanimate" with Meren?
It's really good agianst decks that really wants to draw, U decks in particular. You pair it with Mindslicer so you'll slow them down significantly. It affects all extra draws.
This. I've neglected to grab one for months, because I'm a scrub who prefers to foil his deck out haha. No seriously, I have terrible priorities, but at least the deck is pretty! Id love to have a Chains and Nether Void for the deck (and a real Cradle, I'm proxying, but I should proxy those too)
I think it's fine. Right now, I'm proxying 3 cards. Just prioritize the important ones first.
On the other hand, I just got my Chains of Mephistopheles and this is my current list right now.
I may have to try Ramunap Excavator. Not sold on him in Meren yet, but it seems super gooood.
Liliana of the Veil, how has she worked out for you? she seems underwhelming in this format.
I actually removed him from the list just recently, I find him underwhelming.
As for Liliana of the Veil, she is pretty good. If left unchecked, she can just shred peoples hand and they won't notice about it. The only complain I have for her is that she's a bit slow.
----
I see that you're adding the Protean Hulk combo with the Body Snatcher line. I hope you'll like it coz it's pretty sweet. I was just surprised when you took out Birthing Pod on your list. The card evades our stax cards except Null Rod. Even if it's a bit slow and need creatures to tutor, it's still a house specially with Meren in play. Don't worry about pod being targeted all the time. That means they're scared of the card coz it'll prolly push you out of control and they're wasting resources instead of hitting your taxing cards. I know Meren is not up there but since we are playing stax, we push our taxes first out and grind them from there. I had a game with Pod and Nether Void online, they can't do anything. lol
I am not sold on Boreal Druid in the list. Most of the time, I need colored mana on the first 3-4 turns and it feels awkward with him. The one mana is really enticing though.
I just would like to thank gromgrom and Xentago (as well as the other contributors in this thread) for sharing their expertise and experiences with Meren. I am very fascinated by her potential as a commander and am looking forward to trying these decks out.
Thanks again!
No problem. There's lots of resources around specially at Reddit cEDH.
It's really good agianst decks that really wants to draw, U decks in particular. You pair it with Mindslicer so you'll slow them down significantly. It affects all extra draws.
This. I've neglected to grab one for months, because I'm a scrub who prefers to foil his deck out haha. No seriously, I have terrible priorities, but at least the deck is pretty! Id love to have a Chains and Nether Void for the deck (and a real Cradle, I'm proxying, but I should proxy those too)
I think it's fine. Right now, I'm proxying 3 cards. Just prioritize the important ones first.
On the other hand, I just got my Chains of Mephistopheles and this is my current list right now.
I may have to try Ramunap Excavator. Not sold on him in Meren yet, but it seems super gooood.
Liliana of the Veil, how has she worked out for you? she seems underwhelming in this format.
I actually removed him from the list just recently, I find him underwhelming.
As for Liliana of the Veil, she is pretty good. If left unchecked, she can just shred peoples hand and they won't notice about it. The only complain I have for her is that she's a bit slow.
----
I see that you're adding the Protean Hulk combo with the Body Snatcher line. I hope you'll like it coz it's pretty sweet. I was just surprised when you took out Birthing Pod on your list. The card evades our stax cards except Null Rod. Even if it's a bit slow and need creatures to tutor, it's still a house specially with Meren in play. Don't worry about pod being targeted all the time. That means they're scared of the card coz it'll prolly push you out of control and they're wasting resources instead of hitting your taxing cards. I know Meren is not up there but since we are playing stax, we push our taxes first out and grind them from there. I had a game with Pod and Nether Void online, they can't do anything. lol
I am not sold on Boreal Druid in the list. Most of the time, I need colored mana on the first 3-4 turns and it feels awkward with him. The one mana is really enticing though.
oh i added pod back in, that was a mistake haha.
im testing druid out, as I want turn 1 plays into 3 cmc plays. We'll see
Grip -> Claim
Claim hits the same things Grip hits, for a third of the cost. I typically win before Mind over Matter decks win, so I'm not worried anymore about that. If this becomes a problem again, I might re-add it. Beast Within is worth the cost just due to hitting more things.
Grim -> Raz
Raz is just utterly insane in cEDH. Grim is a solid, solid card, but we aren't all-in on Meren anymore, and even though Grim can draw us cards, he's generally a terrible topdeck. As we have added more tutors and utterly powerful cards, his low power level shows. Raz is another tutor we can hardcast or reanimate that abuses the same mana dorks in a more powerful way.
I'm not sure how essential the edict creatures are except in situations, like with Selvala 2.0, where if shes the only creature on the field for that player, it's really good. Sphere helps slow down decks like Selvala and the occasional storm deck I face.
What do you think about using Tree of Perdition to counter life gain deck? If you have Tree of Perdition + Phyrexian Devourer + Triskelion in the graveyard and Necrotic Ooze on the board you can tap Necrotic Ooze then ping for 13 for the win?
Obviously you also could just drop Tree of Perdition in your grave yard and use Necrotic Ooze on someone getting attacked or just not expecting it.
What do you think about using Tree of Perdition to counter life gain deck? If you have Tree of Perdition + Phyrexian Devourer + Triskelion in the graveyard and Necrotic Ooze on the board you can tap Necrotic Ooze then ping for 13 for the win?
Obviously you also could just drop Tree of Perdition in your grave yard and use Necrotic Ooze on someone getting attacked or just not expecting it.
I dont face lifegain decks, but if I did, Mike+Trike does an infinite amount of damage.
I haven't ran into infinite life gain decks yet, but I could easily see one completely hosing an unprepared Meren player. I think the best silver bullet cards are Sorin Markov and Tree of Perdition, but the problem is that if they have infinite life (or technically a way to gain as much life as they want via Archangel of Thune + Spike feeder), you have to make sure that combo is dead before using either answer. The real proactive answer to lifegain decks is to main deck Tainted Remedy and just get that onto the field before they combo. They basically can't use the combo while it is in play so they will have to answer it with an exile effect since most Meren decks run at least Eternal Witness + a decent amount of draw + tutors. Also, Tainted Remedy shuts down all life gain so they can't even stall and will likely burn themselves while just doing normal things.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I haven't ran into infinite life gain decks yet, but I could easily see one completely hosing an unprepared Meren player. I think the best silver bullet cards are Sorin Markov and Tree of Perdition, but the problem is that if they have infinite life (or technically a way to gain as much life as they want via Archangel of Thune + Spike feeder), you have to make sure that combo is dead before using either answer. The real proactive answer to lifegain decks is to main deck Tainted Remedy and just get that onto the field before they combo. They basically can't use the combo while it is in play so they will have to answer it with an exile effect since most Meren decks run at least Eternal Witness + a decent amount of draw + tutors. Also, Tainted Remedy shuts down all life gain so they can't even stall and will likely burn themselves while just doing normal things.
Why run silver bullet cards against decks that would rather gain life than win? I'm playing this at competitive tables; there is no goofing around. You even admit to not playing against the decks, so why prepare for something that doesnt exist? How many slots are you dedicating toward this imaginary deck you've yet to play? Even so, I answered the above commenter
I dont face lifegain decks, but if I did, Mike+Trike does an infinite amount of damage.
In addition, you could Mike+Walking Balista+sac outlet and do the same. I repeat; if lifegain decks are beating Meren, you're doing it wrong. I apologize for the snark, but this is a combo list. There are three kill conditions, and two of them beat infinite life decks.
I haven't ran into infinite life gain decks yet, but I could easily see one completely hosing an unprepared Meren player. I think the best silver bullet cards are Sorin Markov and Tree of Perdition, but the problem is that if they have infinite life (or technically a way to gain as much life as they want via Archangel of Thune + Spike feeder), you have to make sure that combo is dead before using either answer. The real proactive answer to lifegain decks is to main deck Tainted Remedy and just get that onto the field before they combo. They basically can't use the combo while it is in play so they will have to answer it with an exile effect since most Meren decks run at least Eternal Witness + a decent amount of draw + tutors. Also, Tainted Remedy shuts down all life gain so they can't even stall and will likely burn themselves while just doing normal things.
Why run silver bullet cards against decks that would rather gain life than win? I'm playing this at competitive tables; there is no goofing around. You even admit to not playing against the decks, so why prepare for something that doesnt exist? How many slots are you dedicating toward this imaginary deck you've yet to play? Even so, I answered the above commenter
I dont face lifegain decks, but if I did, Mike+Trike does an infinite amount of damage.
In addition, you could Mike+Walking Balista+sac outlet and do the same. I repeat; if lifegain decks are beating Meren, you're doing it wrong. I apologize for the snark, but this is a combo list. There are three kill conditions, and two of them beat infinite life decks.
... are you having a bad day? I offered a suggestion against a deck that runs life gain. What they do with the life I don't honestly care in the above scenario, but there's a number of cards that let them utilize life as a win condition. Felidar Sovereign is one of them, Archangel of Thune becomes infinitely large if they can pull off the combo, Sanguine Bond will outright kill you, Bond of Agony, Fire Covenant, etc.
So yes, against meren life gain decks can potentially just outright end you. It doesn't matter if we have recursion if they can just smite the entire field with a single spell or drain for some insane amount.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Hey Colt47, let me just jump in here to help clarify the OP's point.
He/She is saying that because we ourselves run infinite combos and we as a competitive combo deck with green will more often than not be able to assemble our combo before the so called "Life gain" decks, we need not worry about them.
Our infinite combos will win you the game against Life Gain decks.
Furthermore, despite your well intentions to suggest counters to it, on a competitive table you rarely see "Life Gain" decks and because you currently do not face life gains decks, you do not need to run any counters to them.
This is essentially carrying an umbrella with you in the Summer.
Hey Colt47, let me just jump in here to help clarify the OP's point.
He/She is saying that because we ourselves run infinite combos and we as a competitive combo deck with green will more often than not be able to assemble our combo before the so called "Life gain" decks, we need not worry about them.
Our infinite combos will win you the game against Life Gain decks.
Furthermore, despite your well intentions to suggest counters to it, on a competitive table you rarely see "Life Gain" decks and because you currently do not face life gains decks, you do not need to run any counters to them.
This is essentially carrying an umbrella with you in the Summer.
I'm not the person who started the thread, though. I'm assuming the OP actually runs into life gain decks or he wouldn't be posting here. Usually the culprit that gets annoying to deal with is Sigarda, Host of Herons. There's a reason I'm always running Bonds of Mortality now. Though, I usually could just go wide and get around her shinanigans.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I haven't ran into infinite life gain decks yet, but I could easily see one completely hosing an unprepared Meren player. I think the best silver bullet cards are Sorin Markov and Tree of Perdition, but the problem is that if they have infinite life (or technically a way to gain as much life as they want via Archangel of Thune + Spike feeder), you have to make sure that combo is dead before using either answer. The real proactive answer to lifegain decks is to main deck Tainted Remedy and just get that onto the field before they combo. They basically can't use the combo while it is in play so they will have to answer it with an exile effect since most Meren decks run at least Eternal Witness + a decent amount of draw + tutors. Also, Tainted Remedy shuts down all life gain so they can't even stall and will likely burn themselves while just doing normal things.
Why run silver bullet cards against decks that would rather gain life than win? I'm playing this at competitive tables; there is no goofing around. You even admit to not playing against the decks, so why prepare for something that doesnt exist? How many slots are you dedicating toward this imaginary deck you've yet to play? Even so, I answered the above commenter
I dont face lifegain decks, but if I did, Mike+Trike does an infinite amount of damage.
In addition, you could Mike+Walking Balista+sac outlet and do the same. I repeat; if lifegain decks are beating Meren, you're doing it wrong. I apologize for the snark, but this is a combo list. There are three kill conditions, and two of them beat infinite life decks.
... are you having a bad day? I offered a suggestion against a deck that runs life gain. What they do with the life I don't honestly care in the above scenario, but there's a number of cards that let them utilize life as a win condition. Felidar Sovereign is one of them, Archangel of Thune becomes infinitely large if they can pull off the combo, Sanguine Bond will outright kill you, Bond of Agony, Fire Covenant, etc.
So yes, against meren life gain decks can potentially just outright end you. It doesn't matter if we have recursion if they can just smite the entire field with a single spell or drain for some insane amount.
I'm not having a bad day, I literally answered your exact question just in the post above yours, and you asked it again. Look at it from my point of view; I already explained it, it's explained in the primer, and you didnt read either and asked it again. It was just a little frustrating BTW I am the OP.
I haven't ran into infinite life gain decks yet, but I could easily see one completely hosing an unprepared Meren player. I think the best silver bullet cards are Sorin Markov and Tree of Perdition, but the problem is that if they have infinite life (or technically a way to gain as much life as they want via Archangel of Thune + Spike feeder), you have to make sure that combo is dead before using either answer. The real proactive answer to lifegain decks is to main deck Tainted Remedy and just get that onto the field before they combo. They basically can't use the combo while it is in play so they will have to answer it with an exile effect since most Meren decks run at least Eternal Witness + a decent amount of draw + tutors. Also, Tainted Remedy shuts down all life gain so they can't even stall and will likely burn themselves while just doing normal things.
Why run silver bullet cards against decks that would rather gain life than win? I'm playing this at competitive tables; there is no goofing around. You even admit to not playing against the decks, so why prepare for something that doesnt exist? How many slots are you dedicating toward this imaginary deck you've yet to play? Even so, I answered the above commenter
I dont face lifegain decks, but if I did, Mike+Trike does an infinite amount of damage.
In addition, you could Mike+Walking Balista+sac outlet and do the same. I repeat; if lifegain decks are beating Meren, you're doing it wrong. I apologize for the snark, but this is a combo list. There are three kill conditions, and two of them beat infinite life decks.
... are you having a bad day? I offered a suggestion against a deck that runs life gain. What they do with the life I don't honestly care in the above scenario, but there's a number of cards that let them utilize life as a win condition. Felidar Sovereign is one of them, Archangel of Thune becomes infinitely large if they can pull off the combo, Sanguine Bond will outright kill you, Bond of Agony, Fire Covenant, etc.
So yes, against meren life gain decks can potentially just outright end you. It doesn't matter if we have recursion if they can just smite the entire field with a single spell or drain for some insane amount.
I'm not having a bad day, I literally answered your exact question just in the post above yours, and you asked it again. Look at it from my point of view; I already explained it, it's explained in the primer, and you didnt read either and asked it again. It was just a little frustrating BTW I am the OP.
Ah, I didn't notice there was another primer as well for Nel Toth. Honestly, it's probably just the season causing frustration. Actually, my own deck list is pretty close to what you posted. I just don't use Bayou due to it being hard to find + a bit pricy and haven't had the need to use the anti-exile elf, but I probably should given the atraxa deck haunting my meta. I also had to change my top end because of the meta being very aggressively anti-stax. My friend plays a super competitive atraxa stax deck that is a nightmare to play against, and another player plays Sigarda, Host of Herons voltron. Our player 4 is mostly a canadian Highlander player that plays his own deck and just throws a commander on top. He runs a high tide list with Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge thrown on top.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Meren its my favorite commander since 2015. This its my list:
Creature (33)
1x Arbor Elf
1x Bane of Progress
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Boreal Druid
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Caustic Caterpillar
1x Dark Confidant
1x Deathrite Shaman
2x Elves of Deep Shadow
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Magus of the Abyss
1x Manglehorn
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Mindslicer
1x Necrotic Ooze
1x Phyrexian Delver
1x Phyrexian Devourer
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Priest of Titania
1x Protean Hulk
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Riftsweeper
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1x Triskelion
1x Viscera Seer
1x Walking Ballista
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Land (30)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x High Market
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Polluted Delta
1x Strip Mine
3x Swamp
1x Tainted Wood
1x Temple of the False God
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Woodland Cemetery
Enchantment (9)
1x Animate Dead
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Contamination
1x Necropotence
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Root Maze
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Artifact (10)
1x Birthing Pod
1x Chrome Mox
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Jet Medallion
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Opal
1x Null Rod
1x Sol Ring
1x Sphere of Resistance
1x Thorn of Amethyst
Im using Sylvan Tutor because Imperial Seal its too much pricey. Same for Mox Opal over Mox Diamond, Magus Of The Abyss over The Abyss, and Jet Medallion over Neither Void. Chains Of Mephistopheles its other card that I don't have.
Im using Crucible Of Worlds, card that didn't see in your decks lately, and Phyrexian Revoker because of Derevi and other commanders really nasty in my meta. Looking forward Defense of the Heart, amazing card to replace Damnation.
Im from Barranquilla Colombia, thanks for any possible feedback and sorry for my bad english
If you like Liliana of the Veil, why not Liliana, Heretical Healer? She can come back with Meren, you can flip her pretty much as soon as you want, she increases in loyalty faster, and is a recursion engine on her own.
Not a fan of the dying nature of the discussion in this thread. We got some pretty cool cards in recent sets, and I'm wondering if any are worth inclusion?
Bontu the Glorified- another sac outlet, albeit a clunky one. Comes stapled to a big body that's hard to remove.
I'd personally recommend Journey to Eternity since this deck has a ton of sac outlets anyway.
Both Noxious Gearhulk and Ravenous Chupacabra are very strong, and I'd slot one of them according to preference. My Karador deck actually had problems finding efficient creatures to ramp into so I chose the Gearhulk, but it's highly flexible. Thrashing Brontodon is very strong if you don't have access to Qasali Pridemage, and maybe even if you do. Prowling Serpopard is heavily meta dependent. Strong only if you face a ton of blue.
I wouldn't bother with the rest since they don't do enough of what we want.
I have been working on a more competitive combo list for Meren for a while now. Phyrexian delver allows you to play protean hulk, sac it to get viscera seer and phyrexian delver, get back hulk, sac hulk to seer, get your combo and win. With this in mind natural order and pattern of rebirth are great and allow turn 4 wins.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I think it's fine. Right now, I'm proxying 3 cards. Just prioritize the important ones first.
On the other hand, I just got my Chains of Mephistopheles and this is my current list right now.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/all-in-merenprotean-stax/
Modern.
GBW Junk
GBR Jund
UG Infect
Added:
So I wanna talk about each change individually. So we're adding the Hulk package to the deck as other competitive Meren decks have done. Tooth and Nail was also considered as a cut. I also cant find my boreal druid, or I would swap it for Devoted Druid
Birthing Pod: This one hurts, but I never see this card and when I do, two situations occur:
* I'm either unable to cast it due to needing to prioritize other threats or removal so I cannot safely drop it.
* It is destroyed before it generates much value
That being said, I hope to fit it back in sometime. I have a gorgeous japanese foil I was using, and atm I have no other deck for it!
Skullclamp: Holdover from Midrange Meren that still does work even in a more competitive shell. It's one I want to work back in with a high priority, as it still does work, just much less since casting Meren is less of a priority.
Sylvok Replica: A very bad version of Caustic Caterpillar, but one that also helped me deal with Torpor Orb. In addition, the need for a sac outlet on a stick with a useful effect is another holdover from the midrange deck. The issue is now that Cursed Totem effects hurt us more, so it's become a high cost bad card. I wont be working this back in.
Hermit Druid: I've gotten to test this only in goldfishing and it wasn't amazing. As I expected, I dumped more than I wanted into the grave and having Meren built up, all midrange style, or with Reanimation/Reclamation available wasn't something I wanted to rely on. It may work its way back as I wanna try it in a real game.
Shaman of Forgotten Ways: Another one I'd like to work back in, but much less so. I've not been able to activate his Formidable ability except when this was ran more midrangey. Now it's more or less a more expensive Bloom Tender which we also dont run.
Jarad's Orders: Final holdover cut from the midrange deck that still can do work, its cost is not worth the inclusion. I feel it opens me too much to hand, graveyard, and general hate.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Thanks again!
GRGR TronRG
XAffinityX
UGUG InfectGU
Added:
I made a mistake in dropping Pod, I was in a hurry last night. This may also be a mistake, as Defense really depends on the meta, but I'm gonna see how it does without it. Honestly I'd like to remove Pattern and Defense as they're both pretty bad competitively and aren't consistent. Devoted for Boreal since we focus less on Meren, and more on needing immediate ramps.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I may have to try Ramunap Excavator. Not sold on him in Meren yet, but it seems super gooood.
Liliana of the Veil, how has she worked out for you? she seems underwhelming in this format.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Thanks brother! /r/cedh on reddit also has some helpful contributors as well.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I actually removed him from the list just recently, I find him underwhelming.
As for Liliana of the Veil, she is pretty good. If left unchecked, she can just shred peoples hand and they won't notice about it. The only complain I have for her is that she's a bit slow.
----
I see that you're adding the Protean Hulk combo with the Body Snatcher line. I hope you'll like it coz it's pretty sweet. I was just surprised when you took out Birthing Pod on your list. The card evades our stax cards except Null Rod. Even if it's a bit slow and need creatures to tutor, it's still a house specially with Meren in play. Don't worry about pod being targeted all the time. That means they're scared of the card coz it'll prolly push you out of control and they're wasting resources instead of hitting your taxing cards. I know Meren is not up there but since we are playing stax, we push our taxes first out and grind them from there. I had a game with Pod and Nether Void online, they can't do anything. lol
I am not sold on Boreal Druid in the list. Most of the time, I need colored mana on the first 3-4 turns and it feels awkward with him. The one mana is really enticing though.
Modern.
GBW Junk
GBR Jund
UG Infect
No problem. There's lots of resources around specially at Reddit cEDH.
Modern.
GBW Junk
GBR Jund
UG Infect
oh i added pod back in, that was a mistake haha.
im testing druid out, as I want turn 1 plays into 3 cmc plays. We'll see
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Removed:
Added:
Grip -> Claim
Claim hits the same things Grip hits, for a third of the cost. I typically win before Mind over Matter decks win, so I'm not worried anymore about that. If this becomes a problem again, I might re-add it. Beast Within is worth the cost just due to hitting more things.
Grim -> Raz
Raz is just utterly insane in cEDH. Grim is a solid, solid card, but we aren't all-in on Meren anymore, and even though Grim can draw us cards, he's generally a terrible topdeck. As we have added more tutors and utterly powerful cards, his low power level shows. Raz is another tutor we can hardcast or reanimate that abuses the same mana dorks in a more powerful way.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Merciless Executioner
Added:
Sphere of Resistance
I'm not sure how essential the edict creatures are except in situations, like with Selvala 2.0, where if shes the only creature on the field for that player, it's really good. Sphere helps slow down decks like Selvala and the occasional storm deck I face.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Obviously you also could just drop Tree of Perdition in your grave yard and use Necrotic Ooze on someone getting attacked or just not expecting it.
I dont face lifegain decks, but if I did, Mike+Trike does an infinite amount of damage.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Why run silver bullet cards against decks that would rather gain life than win? I'm playing this at competitive tables; there is no goofing around. You even admit to not playing against the decks, so why prepare for something that doesnt exist? How many slots are you dedicating toward this imaginary deck you've yet to play? Even so, I answered the above commenter
In addition, you could Mike+Walking Balista+sac outlet and do the same. I repeat; if lifegain decks are beating Meren, you're doing it wrong. I apologize for the snark, but this is a combo list. There are three kill conditions, and two of them beat infinite life decks.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
... are you having a bad day? I offered a suggestion against a deck that runs life gain. What they do with the life I don't honestly care in the above scenario, but there's a number of cards that let them utilize life as a win condition. Felidar Sovereign is one of them, Archangel of Thune becomes infinitely large if they can pull off the combo, Sanguine Bond will outright kill you, Bond of Agony, Fire Covenant, etc.
So yes, against meren life gain decks can potentially just outright end you. It doesn't matter if we have recursion if they can just smite the entire field with a single spell or drain for some insane amount.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
He/She is saying that because we ourselves run infinite combos and we as a competitive combo deck with green will more often than not be able to assemble our combo before the so called "Life gain" decks, we need not worry about them.
Our infinite combos will win you the game against Life Gain decks.
Furthermore, despite your well intentions to suggest counters to it, on a competitive table you rarely see "Life Gain" decks and because you currently do not face life gains decks, you do not need to run any counters to them.
This is essentially carrying an umbrella with you in the Summer.
I'm not the person who started the thread, though. I'm assuming the OP actually runs into life gain decks or he wouldn't be posting here. Usually the culprit that gets annoying to deal with is Sigarda, Host of Herons. There's a reason I'm always running Bonds of Mortality now. Though, I usually could just go wide and get around her shinanigans.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not having a bad day, I literally answered your exact question just in the post above yours, and you asked it again. Look at it from my point of view; I already explained it, it's explained in the primer, and you didnt read either and asked it again. It was just a little frustrating BTW I am the OP.
I think you should check out the following topic http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/646091-meren-of-clan-nel-toth-on-revenge-and-reanimation
It seems more in your wheelhouse.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Ah, I didn't notice there was another primer as well for Nel Toth. Honestly, it's probably just the season causing frustration. Actually, my own deck list is pretty close to what you posted. I just don't use Bayou due to it being hard to find + a bit pricy and haven't had the need to use the anti-exile elf, but I probably should given the atraxa deck haunting my meta. I also had to change my top end because of the meta being very aggressively anti-stax. My friend plays a super competitive atraxa stax deck that is a nightmare to play against, and another player plays Sigarda, Host of Herons voltron. Our player 4 is mostly a canadian Highlander player that plays his own deck and just throws a commander on top. He runs a high tide list with Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge thrown on top.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Meren its my favorite commander since 2015. This its my list:
Creature (33)
1x Arbor Elf
1x Bane of Progress
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Boreal Druid
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Caustic Caterpillar
1x Dark Confidant
1x Deathrite Shaman
2x Elves of Deep Shadow
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Magus of the Abyss
1x Manglehorn
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Mindslicer
1x Necrotic Ooze
1x Phyrexian Delver
1x Phyrexian Devourer
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Priest of Titania
1x Protean Hulk
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Riftsweeper
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1x Triskelion
1x Viscera Seer
1x Walking Ballista
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Land (30)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x High Market
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Polluted Delta
1x Strip Mine
3x Swamp
1x Tainted Wood
1x Temple of the False God
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Woodland Cemetery
Enchantment (9)
1x Animate Dead
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Contamination
1x Necropotence
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Root Maze
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Artifact (10)
1x Birthing Pod
1x Chrome Mox
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Jet Medallion
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Opal
1x Null Rod
1x Sol Ring
1x Sphere of Resistance
1x Thorn of Amethyst
Sorcery (9)
1x Buried Alive
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Regrowth
1x Sylvan Tutor
1x Victimize
Instant (8)
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Entomb
1x Nature's Claim
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Worldly Tutor
Im using Sylvan Tutor because Imperial Seal its too much pricey. Same for Mox Opal over Mox Diamond, Magus Of The Abyss over The Abyss, and Jet Medallion over Neither Void. Chains Of Mephistopheles its other card that I don't have.
Im using Crucible Of Worlds, card that didn't see in your decks lately, and Phyrexian Revoker because of Derevi and other commanders really nasty in my meta. Looking forward Defense of the Heart, amazing card to replace Damnation.
Im from Barranquilla Colombia, thanks for any possible feedback and sorry for my bad english
Currently Playing:
EDH
RBUJeleva SpellsUBR
RGRadha RampGR
GW Rhys Tokens WG
GB Meren Graveyard BG
BUW Oloro Lifegain WUB
RBUW Breya Artifacts WUBR
Standard
Nothing currently
Retired From:
GUExtended Crystal WitnessUG
RBStandard Blightthroat AggroBR
UGHighlander CountersGU
GU Standard Turbo Turns UG
Both Noxious Gearhulk and Ravenous Chupacabra are very strong, and I'd slot one of them according to preference. My Karador deck actually had problems finding efficient creatures to ramp into so I chose the Gearhulk, but it's highly flexible.
Thrashing Brontodon is very strong if you don't have access to Qasali Pridemage, and maybe even if you do.
Prowling Serpopard is heavily meta dependent. Strong only if you face a ton of blue.
I wouldn't bother with the rest since they don't do enough of what we want.