Just a couple cards I noticed pretty early: Sylvan Ranger and Satyr Wayfinder. We have better options for ramp as is, that puts land directly in to play rather than our hand.
Also why is nobody using Hermit Druid? This is one of the few decks where he's great but fair'ish imo. (I know he's banned in french but so is Sol Ring)
Hermit Druid makes me wary. Despite my playgroup not running much grave hate (yet), I still like to have better control of what gets put directly in to my graveyard. I do typically include it in dredge decks, by my current list is more of a value attrition deck.
I like the Ranger as a 2 drop ramp option for filling my hand with land drops for subsequent turns. Ideally i wanna hit Ranger turn 2 into my turn 3 land drop if i dont have it (or turn 4). It's not bad, but it's not amazing either
Agreed on Hermit Druid. Same with dredge cards, i prefer direct tutors to my grave/hand instead. For the cost of Hermit Druid (assuming he even gets to activate), I could use Buried Ruin and grab exactly what I need. If I played him/dredge cards, I'd run alot more recursion.
I like the Ranger as a 2 drop ramp option for filling my hand with land drops for subsequent turns. Ideally i wanna hit Ranger turn 2 into my turn 3 land drop if i dont have it (or turn 4). It's not bad, but it's not amazing either.
I agree that they're not terrible, but they are the first place I'd pick to start making cuts. ^.^
Have you considered running sac outlets such as Viscera Seer? By itself it can help you tick up counters on Meren each turn.
I've also been adoring Spore Frog since adding it. I'll have to playtest it a bit more to decide what I want to cut, but I've really enjoyed having a repeatable fog effect.
Have you considered running sac outlets such as Viscera Seer? By itself it can help you tick up counters on Meren each turn.
I've also been adoring Spore Frog since adding it. I'll have to playtest it a bit more to decide what I want to cut, but I've really enjoyed having a repeatable fog effect.
I have only one Viscera Seer and he's on another commander deck. I am planning to buy more soon. I saw Spore frog in this thread and I am inclined to try him.
Glad you had fun, and I'm glad that Kalitas worked out for you! Sorry you got touched by Phage. I noticed that there's no Scooze in your list. In general, I try to run Scavenging Ooze in any green deck I'm playing to deal with annoying things in my opponents graveyards (specifically against U/x or B/x players who always seem to be digging around there). Of course, that doesn't help if you forget Phage is in the graveyard...
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Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
Hey there! That list looks like it is no fun to play against. Good job!
A few things to think about:
-You have a lot of ways to interact with creatures, but not many ways to interact with other problematic permanents. I would recommend Terastodon and Beast Within. Your list is so loaded with ways to deal with creatures that the tokens your opponents get are pretty negligible.
-As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I don't think that Wurmcoil Engine is that great of an addition to Meren. It just doesn't do enough. I'd recommend Rune-Scarred Demon in its place.
-I don't really understand the inclusion of Krosan Wayfarer. Seems like its only any good once you have Meren out to get the XP counters, but by that point its not really something I would want to be recurring. Maybe that's just me.
-No Animate Dead?
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Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
Been playing Meren for a few weeks now and having a great old time with it, just looking to finalise the build at the moment if any of you have input, I was thinking of going for a stax build but I've found Meren works best with more creatures and discard/sac over mana denial. But they're in the maybeboard still with a bunch of other stuff I've been considering, just don't know what to cut if I add any of it.
I find Living Death counterintuitive in all of these lists that include Grave Pact. If you're murdering all of their creatures, why bring them back? I mean, I get the idea of it. I run Scrap Mastery in Daretti, but it's one of those "Oh crap I'm losing" cards to hopefully gain back boardstate. If you have ways of exiling their graveyards in masse, then it becomes house. I'm just not a fan. I'm also not a fan of Mazzy. He makes your guys big, but it's very win more. I'd definitely add in Reclamation Sage and Pox though. They're both fantastic. You'll definitely want Sage on demand, Aura Shards really hurts Meren
Hey there! That list looks like it is no fun to play against. Good job!
A few things to think about:
-You have a lot of ways to interact with creatures, but not many ways to interact with other problematic permanents. I would recommend Terastodon and Beast Within. Your list is so loaded with ways to deal with creatures that the tokens your opponents get are pretty negligible.
-As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I don't think that Wurmcoil Engine is that great of an addition to Meren. It just doesn't do enough. I'd recommend Rune-Scarred Demon in its place.
-I don't really understand the inclusion of Krosan Wayfarer. Seems like its only any good once you have Meren out to get the XP counters, but by that point its not really something I would want to be recurring. Maybe that's just me.
-No Animate Dead?
I agree on Krosan Wayfarer. There are better one drops that can sacrifice themselves if you really need it, and only really Seer and Frog I ever would want to return to play for any reason over something bigger and more useful.
Also agree on Wurmcoil Engine. I think he is quite good, but in these colors, you have much crazier options. As you stated, creatures that blow permanents up on entry to the battlefield, tutors, etc.
I personally don't run animate dead. Haven't really missed it, though I see its application. I may have to give it a go sometime. Finding cuts at this point is most difficult to me!
Glad you had fun, and I'm glad that Kalitas worked out for you! Sorry you got touched by Phage. I noticed that there's no Scooze in your list. In general, I try to run Scavenging Ooze in any green deck I'm playing to deal with annoying things in my opponents graveyards (specifically against U/x or B/x players who always seem to be digging around there). Of course, that doesn't help if you forget Phage is in the graveyard...
I have mentioned it before, but Agent of Erebos also has potential as grave hate, especially as you can loop him with Meren while getting value off of any other enchantments you have.
I find Living Death counterintuitive in all of these lists that include Grave Pact. If you're murdering all of their creatures, why bring them back? I mean, I get the idea of it. I run Scrap Mastery in Daretti, but it's one of those "Oh crap I'm losing" cards to hopefully gain back boardstate. If you have ways of exiling their graveyards in masse, then it becomes house. I'm just not a fan. I'm also not a fan of Mazzy. He makes your guys big, but it's very win more. I'd definitely add in Reclamation Sage and Pox though. They're both fantastic. You'll definitely want Sage on demand, Aura Shards really hurts Meren
I personally don't run animate dead. Haven't really missed it, though I see its application. I may have to give it a go sometime. Finding cuts at this point is most difficult to me.
Same here. It's good, but tough to fit in.
Edit: Also, I'm slowly going to be adding writeups to the main post, so keep an eye out for that, and let me know if you think I'm missing anything. ^.^
Agent of Erebos is great, especially if you want to offset one player in particular. That being said, it's not something that I'm keen on reanimating. Scavenging Ooze is probably more expensive in the long run, but you end up with a bigger body, more targeted grave hate and less opportunity cost (you can only reanimate once per turn). That's not to say you can't run both
As to the Living Death v. Grave Pact scenario that Gromgrom seems unsold on, my thought is the following:
My example: I have Grave Pact and N creatures out. Each opponent has less than N creatures in their graveyards. I play Living Death. I sacrifice my dudes, rez my dudes, and each opponent does the same. Grave Pact sees that I have lost my creatures, but can only go onto the stack after Living Death is finished resolving. Each opponent sacrifices N creatures upon those triggers' resolutions. Voila! You are the only player with any creatures out, most likely.
Sure, this is a bit Christmasland, as not everyone will be so empty re: their graveyards. But suffice it to say, in a dedicated token build or similar, this can happen easily enough.
Hope that enlightens you a bit better on the intuition of playing both in tandem.
Also, if I happen to be wrong in my analysis of how those cards interact, please feel free to correct me! I could benefit from knowing the rules better on this if I don't already haha
As to the Living Death v. Grave Pact scenario that Gromgrom seems unsold on, my thought is the following:
My example: I have Grave Pact and N creatures out. Each opponent has less than N creatures in their graveyards. I play Living Death. I sacrifice my dudes, rez my dudes, and each opponent does the same. Grave Pact sees that I have lost my creatures, but can only go onto the stack after Living Death is finished resolving. Each opponent sacrifices N creatures upon those triggers' resolutions. Voila! You are the only player with any creatures out, most likely.
Sure, this is a bit Christmasland, as not everyone will be so empty re: their graveyards. But suffice it to say, in a dedicated token build or similar, this can happen easily enough.
Hope that enlightens you a bit better on the intuition of playing both in tandem.
Also, if I happen to be wrong in my analysis of how those cards interact, please feel free to correct me! I could benefit from knowing the rules better on this if I don't already haha
~Lil Kalki
Yeah my worry is Grave Pact (or Dictate/etc) being destroyed in response to the cast, or not having both available. But I didnt think of the fact it sacrifices your creatures, and that would be a very amazing play!
I made a few changes to my list today seen at http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-11-15-aAW-meren/
- Grisly Salvage + Zulaport Cutthroat
As others have pointed out, this is much better than Blood Artist. I originally evaluated them as not necessary because they only targeted one played, not fully reading this card. This guy is bonkers. Definitely nice to have another amazing 2 drop. Grisly I'm torn on. I've yet to test it. It was between it and Primal Growth. Growth cant pitch my important enchantments/artifacts, so it stays. Salvage, like other self mill cards, looks really good on paper. My fear is having to find an E Witness because I pitched something critical, or getting my Bog Juked.
I'm still a bit worried about the 4 drop slot and definitely want to fit in rec sage and pox, maybe also Krosan grip, but not sure what to cut. I've considered dropping living death for pox but its won games where I fell miles behind. Also considering losing buried alive or demonic tutor, the deck has tons of redundancy and no problems filling the yard so maybe buried?
When I ran this deck as Shattergang Bros, I had alot of issues with consistently getting engines online and trying to maintain a lock. I also had alot of issues with Birthing Pod and the 4 cmc slot, since we have no shortage of great 3, 5, and 6 drops.
Zulaport Cutthroat
As others have pointed out, this is much better than Blood Artist. I originally evaluated them as not necessary because they only targeted one played, not fully reading this card. This guy is bonkers. Definitely nice to have another amazing 2 drop.
Now you mention it, I didn't read it either. I might have to swap my Artist for a Cutthroat, also. Although, I LOVE the art..
Then this would free up a 5 drop slot if I remove Acidic Slime (having replaced the effect with the Caterpillar), which I can maybe give to a 6 drop to even the curve out. I'm still looking at the 4 drops as well..
I dropped the Slime originally as well, but I recommend keeping him in as yet another effect. He also makes a decent rattlesnake. But if you find you dont need the extra removal, go for it!
Agent of Erebos is great, especially if you want to offset one player in particular. That being said, it's not something that I'm keen on reanimating. Scavenging Ooze is probably more expensive in the long run, but you end up with a bigger body, more targeted grave hate and less opportunity cost (you can only reanimate once per turn). That's not to say you can't run both
Fair enough. I've never found Scavenging Ooze's body relevant (it never lives that long), so I'm probably biased in favor or something I don't have to continually invest mana in to. ^.^
Zulaport Cutthroat
As others have pointed out, this is much better than Blood Artist. I originally evaluated them as not necessary because they only targeted one played, not fully reading this card. This guy is bonkers. Definitely nice to have another amazing 2 drop. Grisly I'm torn on. I've yet to test it. It was between it and Primal Growth. Growth cant pitch my important enchantments/artifacts, so it stays. Salvage, like other self mill cards, looks really good on paper. My fear is having to find an E Witness because I pitched something critical, or getting my Bog Juked.
I'll have to take a look at it, I probably didn't pay enough attention as I should have to BFZ when I was creating this deck. ^.^
Now, mind you, that's not meant to be any kind of final decision, just trying to make room for test cards. Still, I've really liked most of the additions I've actually seen.
Agent of Erebos is great, especially if you want to offset one player in particular. That being said, it's not something that I'm keen on reanimating. Scavenging Ooze is probably more expensive in the long run, but you end up with a bigger body, more targeted grave hate and less opportunity cost (you can only reanimate once per turn). That's not to say you can't run both
Fair enough. I've never found Scavenging Ooze's body relevant (it never lives that long), so I'm probably biased in favor or something I don't have to continually invest mana in to. ^.^
Zulaport Cutthroat
As others have pointed out, this is much better than Blood Artist. I originally evaluated them as not necessary because they only targeted one played, not fully reading this card. This guy is bonkers. Definitely nice to have another amazing 2 drop. Grisly I'm torn on. I've yet to test it. It was between it and Primal Growth. Growth cant pitch my important enchantments/artifacts, so it stays. Salvage, like other self mill cards, looks really good on paper. My fear is having to find an E Witness because I pitched something critical, or getting my Bog Juked.
I'll have to take a look at it, I probably didn't pay enough attention as I should have to BFZ when I was creating this deck. ^.^
Now, mind you, that's not meant to be any kind of final decision, just trying to make room for test cards. Still, I've really liked most of the additions I've actually seen.
Definitely test them, while I question dropping the Elder, dropping Fleshbag and K Grip really makes me sad!
I dropped the Slime originally as well, but I recommend keeping him in as yet another effect. He also makes a decent rattlesnake. But if you find you dont need the extra removal, go for it!
I still have Reclamation Sage in so Caterpillar is covering him and vice/versa. I'd like to give it a go and see. Made the changes I'd listed with the exception (for now) of a Viridian Emissary until i can source a Devoted Druid. I'm mow pondering the 4/5/6 drop slots!!
Definitely test them, while I question dropping the Elder, dropping Fleshbag and K Grip really makes me sad!
Elder is actually the most likely to be cut off the six, largely because I've not been a huge fan of it (really, never have).
That said, none of it is final, but I needed room because that's a decent list of test cards.
I love it on paper, I just find it too slow most of the time. Especially since I cant use a separate sac effect to draw the card. If he had 2; sacrifice himself.
When X is put into a gy from play, draw a card, I wouldnt cut him for the world. But as it stands, I think you may be right. I'd rather get more ETB land tutoring creatures. Or an Elvish Mystic in its place.
I dropped the Slime originally as well, but I recommend keeping him in as yet another effect. He also makes a decent rattlesnake. But if you find you dont need the extra removal, go for it!
I still have Reclamation Sage in so Caterpillar is covering him and vice/versa. I'd like to give it a go and see. Made the changes I'd listed with the exception (for now) of a Viridian Emissary until i can source a Devoted Druid. I'm mow pondering the 4/5/6 drop slots!!
Definitely test them, while I question dropping the Elder, dropping Fleshbag and K Grip really makes me sad!
Elder is actually the most likely to be cut off the six, largely because I've not been a huge fan of it (really, never have).
That said, none of it is final, but I needed room because that's a decent list of test cards.
I love it on paper, I just find it too slow most of the time. Especially since I cant use a separate sac effect to draw the card. If he had 2; sacrifice himself.
When X is put into a gy from play, draw a card, I wouldnt cut him for the world. But as it stands, I think you may be right. I'd rather get more ETB land tutoring creatures. Or an Elvish Mystic in its place.
I've been following your deck or your friends deck or whoevers it is gromgrom, and just a quick tip. Anytime you make changes on your tappedout decklists, you should add a changelog. It's a real pain to have to double check every card to see what you changed. Thanks again!
Agent of Erebos is great, especially if you want to offset one player in particular. That being said, it's not something that I'm keen on reanimating. Scavenging Ooze is probably more expensive in the long run, but you end up with a bigger body, more targeted grave hate and less opportunity cost (you can only reanimate once per turn). That's not to say you can't run both
Fair enough. I've never found Scavenging Ooze's body relevant (it never lives that long), so I'm probably biased in favor or something I don't have to continually invest mana in to. ^.^
Zulaport Cutthroat
As others have pointed out, this is much better than Blood Artist. I originally evaluated them as not necessary because they only targeted one played, not fully reading this card. This guy is bonkers. Definitely nice to have another amazing 2 drop. Grisly I'm torn on. I've yet to test it. It was between it and Primal Growth. Growth cant pitch my important enchantments/artifacts, so it stays. Salvage, like other self mill cards, looks really good on paper. My fear is having to find an E Witness because I pitched something critical, or getting my Bog Juked.
I'll have to take a look at it, I probably didn't pay enough attention as I should have to BFZ when I was creating this deck. ^.^
Now, mind you, that's not meant to be any kind of final decision, just trying to make room for test cards. Still, I've really liked most of the additions I've actually seen.
So I've been playing Meren in my local group quite a bit recently, and the deck is really strong. It's not a huge deal to get bojuka bog'd but persistent hate (like Kalitas, traitor of ghet or Anafenza, the foremost) really hurts.
As far as suggestions, strionic resonator is one of the best cards in the deck. Seriously, run this card- getting an extra creature at the end of turn is more than worth the tiny mana cost, and it has won me multiple games.
caustic caterpillar is quite good, as are the variants of it. sakura-tribe elder and it's variants are even better, though I'm sure that's already common knowledge.
phyrexian tower is also pretty sweet if you don't mind shelling out 20 bucks for a utility land.
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Legacy: UR tempo UR Modern: U Tron U/ Commander: Prime Speaker ZeganaUG, Oros, the Avenger RBW
At the moment, I'm actually pretty content with my own list. The mulligan rules actaully went in my favor, because it reduced the frequency in which people were going off extremely quickly. The only cards I'm really interested in outside of the testing log I posted are Zulaport Cutthroat (I somehow misread it, despite playing it during the prerelease >.<) and Dawntreader Elk. Beyond that, I'd probably need specifics in what anyone was looking for in a particular list (e.g. what they're looking for/hoping to accomplish) to offer further suggestions.
As far as suggestions, strionic resonator is one of the best cards in the deck. Seriously, run this card- getting an extra creature at the end of turn is more than worth the tiny mana cost, and it has won me multiple games.
I don't run for two reasons, room is extremely tight in my list. Anything I cut is going to be a card that I find important, and also because in addition to having an activation cost, it can only copy one ability a turn, which makes it slow. Because I spend a lot of my game just looping little interactions, it does slow down what I'm doing to a degree. I tend to prefer it in decks like Xenagos, God of Revels where I consistently have one extremely impactful trigger to copy, rather than hoping it stick around long enough to copy something like Gray Merchant of Asphodel's trigger.
That said, if you find room for it, it's certainly a viable addition, but it doesn't mesh with my particular playstyle too well. ^.^
...where I consistently have one extremely impactful trigger to copy...
90% of the time I use it to copy Meren's end step trigger, so you return TWO creatures to the battlefield instead of one. it's incredible for looping through little value engines since you can grab multiple creatures that fill whatever role you need.
Some of my personal favorite combinations- Kokusho + sidisi, Corpse Augur + Disciple of bolas, Grim Haruspex/smothering abomination + fleshbag maruader etc... All of these are great to alternate every other endstep, but with resonator you can just grab both and do the interaction every turn.
If you've tried it and dont like it, I'll take your word for it, but if you haven't tested it in the deck I'm telling you its the real deal. MVP every game I draw it in.
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90% of the time I use it to copy Meren's end step trigger, so you return TWO creatures to the battlefield instead of one. it's incredible for looping through little value engines since you can grab multiple creatures that fill whatever role you need.
Because of how cautiously I play to avoid over extending, I don't typically get many things in my grave yard early in the game (I can also be limited by not having a repeatable sac outlet, I try to save those for later turns, where I can drop it with minimal fear of it being countered/removed and go for a win).
Some of my personal favorite combinations- Kokusho + sidisi, Corpse Augur + Disciple of bolas, Grim Haruspex/smothering abomination + fleshbag maruader etc... All of these are great to alternate every other endstep, but with resonator you can just grab both and do the interaction every turn.
If you've tried it and dont like it, I'll take your word for it, but if you haven't tested it in the deck I'm telling you its the real deal. MVP every game I draw it in.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good card, but I tend to prefer it in decks where I know I can constantly pull off the trigger, and the the cost is going to be absolutely worth it. Mana and card slots are super valuable in this deck, and it is slow.
That said, I'll give it a go. But, it is going to be a long while before I have the room to test it, I'm pushing the limits for test cards in the deck with six currently in the deck and two (this would make three) on back up.
90% of the time I use it to copy Meren's end step trigger, so you return TWO creatures to the battlefield instead of one. it's incredible for looping through little value engines since you can grab multiple creatures that fill whatever role you need.
Because of how cautiously I play to avoid over extending, I don't typically get many things in my grave yard early in the game (I can also be limited by not having a repeatable sac outlet, I try to save those for later turns, where I can drop it with minimal fear of it being countered/removed and go for a win).
Some of my personal favorite combinations- Kokusho + sidisi, Corpse Augur + Disciple of bolas, Grim Haruspex/smothering abomination + fleshbag maruader etc... All of these are great to alternate every other endstep, but with resonator you can just grab both and do the interaction every turn.
If you've tried it and dont like it, I'll take your word for it, but if you haven't tested it in the deck I'm telling you its the real deal. MVP every game I draw it in.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good card, but I tend to prefer it in decks where I know I can constantly pull off the trigger, and the the cost is going to be absolutely worth it. Mana and card slots are super valuable in this deck, and it is slow.
That said, I'll give it a go. But, it is going to be a long while before I have the room to test it, I'm pushing the limits for test cards in the deck with six currently in the deck and two (this would make three) on back up.
I recommend Strionic Resonator as well. Of course you may draw lots of hate if you cast it but choosing which turn you can double Meren's recursion is simply fantastic. Sometimes all takes is one activation to change the tide of a game.
I like the Ranger as a 2 drop ramp option for filling my hand with land drops for subsequent turns. Ideally i wanna hit Ranger turn 2 into my turn 3 land drop if i dont have it (or turn 4). It's not bad, but it's not amazing either
Agreed on Hermit Druid. Same with dredge cards, i prefer direct tutors to my grave/hand instead. For the cost of Hermit Druid (assuming he even gets to activate), I could use Buried Ruin and grab exactly what I need. If I played him/dredge cards, I'd run alot more recursion.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
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[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Creature
1x Multani's Acolyte
1x Ravenous Rats
1x Phyrexian Rager
1x Reaper of the Wilds
1x Acidic Slime
1x Quirion Elves
1x Blood Bairn
1x Harvester of Souls
1x Loltleth Troll
1x Demonic Taskmaster
1x Corpse Augur
1x Viridian Emissary
1x Shriekmaw
1x Merciless Executioner
1x Quagmire Druid
1x Faceless Butcher
1x Satyr Wayfinder
1x Nantuko Husk
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Vampire Hexmage
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Champion of Stray Souls
1x Mindslicer
1x Brain Maggot
1x Dawntreader Elk
1x Terastodon
1x Stronghold Assassin
1x Eternal Witness
1x Viridian Zealot
1x Wood Elves
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Korozda Guildmage
1x Wall of Blossoms
1x Mesmeric Fiend
1x Overeager Apprentice
1x Bone Shredder
1x Tortured Existence
1x Dictate of Erebos
1x Oversold Cemetery
1x Evolutionary Leap
1x Foster
Sorcery
1x Living Death
1x Barter in Blood
1x Animal Magnetism
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Last Rites
1x Rites of Spring
1x Victimize
1x Mulch
1x Commune with the Gods
1x Primal Growth
Artifact
1x Eldrazi Monument
1x Smokestack
1x Sol Ring
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Strionic Resonator
1x Golgari Signet
1x Skullclamp
1x Thought Vessel
Instant
1x Altar's Reap
1x Putrefy
1x Golgari Charm
1x Grisly Salvage
1x Tragic Slip
11x Forest
12x Swamp
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Slippery Karst
1x Polluted Mire
1x Golgari Guildgate
1x Jungle Hollow
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Grim Backwoods
1x Command Tower
1x Tainted Wood
1x High Market
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I've also been adoring Spore Frog since adding it. I'll have to playtest it a bit more to decide what I want to cut, but I've really enjoyed having a repeatable fog effect.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I have only one Viscera Seer and he's on another commander deck. I am planning to buy more soon. I saw Spore frog in this thread and I am inclined to try him.
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
A few things to think about:
-You have a lot of ways to interact with creatures, but not many ways to interact with other problematic permanents. I would recommend Terastodon and Beast Within. Your list is so loaded with ways to deal with creatures that the tokens your opponents get are pretty negligible.
-As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I don't think that Wurmcoil Engine is that great of an addition to Meren. It just doesn't do enough. I'd recommend Rune-Scarred Demon in its place.
-I don't really understand the inclusion of Krosan Wayfarer. Seems like its only any good once you have Meren out to get the XP counters, but by that point its not really something I would want to be recurring. Maybe that's just me.
-No Animate Dead?
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
I find Living Death counterintuitive in all of these lists that include Grave Pact. If you're murdering all of their creatures, why bring them back? I mean, I get the idea of it. I run Scrap Mastery in Daretti, but it's one of those "Oh crap I'm losing" cards to hopefully gain back boardstate. If you have ways of exiling their graveyards in masse, then it becomes house. I'm just not a fan. I'm also not a fan of Mazzy. He makes your guys big, but it's very win more. I'd definitely add in Reclamation Sage and Pox though. They're both fantastic. You'll definitely want Sage on demand, Aura Shards really hurts Meren
I agree on Krosan Wayfarer. There are better one drops that can sacrifice themselves if you really need it, and only really Seer and Frog I ever would want to return to play for any reason over something bigger and more useful.
Also agree on Wurmcoil Engine. I think he is quite good, but in these colors, you have much crazier options. As you stated, creatures that blow permanents up on entry to the battlefield, tutors, etc.
I personally don't run animate dead. Haven't really missed it, though I see its application. I may have to give it a go sometime. Finding cuts at this point is most difficult to me!
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Caustic Caterpiller as a potential add, as well? It's a one drop that gets around Torpor Orb and such, so it's a good addition alongside Reclamation Sage
Same here. It's good, but tough to fit in.
Edit: Also, I'm slowly going to be adding writeups to the main post, so keep an eye out for that, and let me know if you think I'm missing anything. ^.^
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Run both, they're fantastic and super cheap to pickup! I also run Acidic Slime and Woodfall Primus(Who can go infinite with Mikeaus and a sac outlet!)
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I run Agent of Erebos in Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, and it's really good there.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
My example: I have Grave Pact and N creatures out. Each opponent has less than N creatures in their graveyards. I play Living Death. I sacrifice my dudes, rez my dudes, and each opponent does the same. Grave Pact sees that I have lost my creatures, but can only go onto the stack after Living Death is finished resolving. Each opponent sacrifices N creatures upon those triggers' resolutions. Voila! You are the only player with any creatures out, most likely.
Sure, this is a bit Christmasland, as not everyone will be so empty re: their graveyards. But suffice it to say, in a dedicated token build or similar, this can happen easily enough.
Hope that enlightens you a bit better on the intuition of playing both in tandem.
Also, if I happen to be wrong in my analysis of how those cards interact, please feel free to correct me! I could benefit from knowing the rules better on this if I don't already haha
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
Yeah my worry is Grave Pact (or Dictate/etc) being destroyed in response to the cast, or not having both available. But I didnt think of the fact it sacrifices your creatures, and that would be a very amazing play!
I made a few changes to my list today seen at
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-11-15-aAW-meren/
- Grisly Salvage + Zulaport Cutthroat
As others have pointed out, this is much better than Blood Artist. I originally evaluated them as not necessary because they only targeted one played, not fully reading this card. This guy is bonkers. Definitely nice to have another amazing 2 drop. Grisly I'm torn on. I've yet to test it. It was between it and Primal Growth. Growth cant pitch my important enchantments/artifacts, so it stays. Salvage, like other self mill cards, looks really good on paper. My fear is having to find an E Witness because I pitched something critical, or getting my Bog Juked.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
When I ran this deck as Shattergang Bros, I had alot of issues with consistently getting engines online and trying to maintain a lock. I also had alot of issues with Birthing Pod and the 4 cmc slot, since we have no shortage of great 3, 5, and 6 drops.
Are all possibilities!
I dropped the Slime originally as well, but I recommend keeping him in as yet another effect. He also makes a decent rattlesnake. But if you find you dont need the extra removal, go for it!
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I'll have to take a look at it, I probably didn't pay enough attention as I should have to BFZ when I was creating this deck. ^.^
Currently, I'm loosely looking at something like:
Out
Altar of Dementia
Fleshbag Marauder
Krosan Grip
Yavimaya Elder
Corpse Augur
Genesis
In
Caustic Caterpillar
Spore Frog
Wall of Blossoms
Matter Reshaper
Agent of Erebos
Mindslicer
Now, mind you, that's not meant to be any kind of final decision, just trying to make room for test cards. Still, I've really liked most of the additions I've actually seen.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Definitely test them, while I question dropping the Elder, dropping Fleshbag and K Grip really makes me sad!
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
That said, none of it is final, but I needed room because that's a decent list of test cards.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I had to order Druid online, it's one of those few niche money commons and is tough to find in the binders/boxes in my area
I love it on paper, I just find it too slow most of the time. Especially since I cant use a separate sac effect to draw the card. If he had 2; sacrifice himself.
When X is put into a gy from play, draw a card, I wouldnt cut him for the world. But as it stands, I think you may be right. I'd rather get more ETB land tutoring creatures. Or an Elvish Mystic in its place.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I've been following your deck or your friends deck or whoevers it is gromgrom, and just a quick tip. Anytime you make changes on your tappedout decklists, you should add a changelog. It's a real pain to have to double check every card to see what you changed. Thanks again!
Any other changes you recommend?
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
As far as suggestions, strionic resonator is one of the best cards in the deck. Seriously, run this card- getting an extra creature at the end of turn is more than worth the tiny mana cost, and it has won me multiple games.
caustic caterpillar is quite good, as are the variants of it. sakura-tribe elder and it's variants are even better, though I'm sure that's already common knowledge.
phyrexian tower is also pretty sweet if you don't mind shelling out 20 bucks for a utility land.
Modern: U Tron U/
Commander: Prime Speaker ZeganaUG, Oros, the Avenger RBW
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
I don't run for two reasons, room is extremely tight in my list. Anything I cut is going to be a card that I find important, and also because in addition to having an activation cost, it can only copy one ability a turn, which makes it slow. Because I spend a lot of my game just looping little interactions, it does slow down what I'm doing to a degree. I tend to prefer it in decks like Xenagos, God of Revels where I consistently have one extremely impactful trigger to copy, rather than hoping it stick around long enough to copy something like Gray Merchant of Asphodel's trigger.
That said, if you find room for it, it's certainly a viable addition, but it doesn't mesh with my particular playstyle too well. ^.^
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
90% of the time I use it to copy Meren's end step trigger, so you return TWO creatures to the battlefield instead of one. it's incredible for looping through little value engines since you can grab multiple creatures that fill whatever role you need.
Some of my personal favorite combinations- Kokusho + sidisi, Corpse Augur + Disciple of bolas, Grim Haruspex/smothering abomination + fleshbag maruader etc... All of these are great to alternate every other endstep, but with resonator you can just grab both and do the interaction every turn.
If you've tried it and dont like it, I'll take your word for it, but if you haven't tested it in the deck I'm telling you its the real deal. MVP every game I draw it in.
Modern: U Tron U/
Commander: Prime Speaker ZeganaUG, Oros, the Avenger RBW
Don't get me wrong, it's a good card, but I tend to prefer it in decks where I know I can constantly pull off the trigger, and the the cost is going to be absolutely worth it. Mana and card slots are super valuable in this deck, and it is slow.
That said, I'll give it a go. But, it is going to be a long while before I have the room to test it, I'm pushing the limits for test cards in the deck with six currently in the deck and two (this would make three) on back up.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I recommend Strionic Resonator as well. Of course you may draw lots of hate if you cast it but choosing which turn you can double Meren's recursion is simply fantastic. Sometimes all takes is one activation to change the tide of a game.
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)