I like your build for Kresh a lot but I was kinda salty about how Kresh is described as non-competitive. I made a list that has been doing incredibly well in my play group witch is almost oppressively competitive. I would love to get some feedback on possible improvements or just your opinion!
I like your build for Kresh a lot but I was kinda salty about how Kresh is described as non-competitive. I made a list that has been doing incredibly well in my play group witch is almost oppressively competitive. I would love to get some feedback on possible improvements or just your opinion!
Sweet, thanks for posting. I'll take a closer look at your list when I get home from work.
I have actually been throwing around the idea of Kresh as a competitive commander off and on for a while, coming up with different strategies and win conditions I would use and considered updating the primer with suggestions. Unfortunately, I am not in the right meta to actually test my theories and have been too lazy to get online. The question I keep coming back to is "Why Kresh over commander so and so?" and once we start talking competitive play the answer can no longer be "Cause he's a bad bad man" (which he is). Now, there are definitely things he brings to the table that no other commander does, so I'm not saying there isn't an answer by any means. I'm just not in the position of expertise to speak definitely on it.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on your deck's and Kresh's strengths in your competitive meta. I may consider tweaking that sentence in the primer:)
After having played both Kresh extensively as well as his main competitor in Jund, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher. I've found that the two are fundamentally different decks and on a competitive level Kresh is strongest as a Pod/Re-animator/toolbox build. The main reason I choose Kresh over Adun Oakenshield as a reanimation general is because Kresh provides a solid dependable win condition as opposed to just another card that gets creatures out of your yard. He is also a deck that can be unpredictable, Prossh I've found is very predictable and after playing him for any length of time in the same group of people they eventually know what to look out for, even players who have played against a Prossh deck once know how to stop the combo from going off. The deck also works well without Kresh having to be in play all the time like your primer has mentioned, without him in play you still have a obnoxiously persistent reanimation package that will almost guarantee that your board is never lacking for dudes to swing with.
In my experience the simplest way to win the game is by using Berserk, Temur Battle Rage, Fatal Frenzy, Hatred and Tainted Strike to kill with commander damage early in the game rather than waiting for Kresh to hit 21+ before swinging in. Kresh will attract the attention of every player in the game when he has hit 21 or higher power and with everyone on guard it is near impossible to sneak in for that lethal hit, hence the instant speed buffs. I prefer these methods over Fling effects because you simply don't have to wait as long before the cards will facilitate lethal damage. The only fling effect I use is Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord because he is easily tutored for if I need him and he hits every player at once. Fling effects are simply too situational to rely on and I personally do not recommend them. The other main way I use to win is combining Aggravated Assault with Sword of Feast and Famine, Nature's Will, and/or Bear Umbra to get infinite combat steps with just about any creature provided I can get through for damage. The land untap triggers are also incredibly useful for fighting through prison strategies that like to use Winter Orb and Static Orb witch I often have to play against. On a related note, Mana rocks are important to have to get the deck up and running quickly and I would not play the deck without them.
Re-animator also lends itself well to pulling off the Mikaeus/Triskelion, Kiki/Conscripts, or a Necrotic Ooze combo but these cards do not gel with the deck on their own enough to avoid being dead draws. This is what I decided to focus on as far as a win conditions and it has served me quite well.
The cards that I consider to be irreplaceable in this build are Sheoldred, Whispering One, Survival of the Fittest, Birthing Pod, and Sneak Attack these are what I have found to make the biggest impact to the decks overall speed and consistency and are what I consider the first cards to get when getting competitive.
Kresh dose lend himself to a lot of variants but this is the one that has worked for me so far.
Nice deck! If you have Bear Umbra, why not throw in a Hellkite Charger for infinite combo?
I will say I have considered the Charger as an include but two things bug me, first the mana cost. 6 is just a touch high as I would like to keep the mana curve low. Second is that I already run Aggravated Assault which is half the mana cost and harder to remove after I have played it since it is not a creature.
Running both could be viable considering I use Sword of Feast and Famine and Nature's Will to duplicate Bear Umbra's ability. Having Assault and Charger would mean getting this combo to work is easier so I will test it and see what happens.
After having played both Kresh extensively as well as his main competitor in Jund, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher. I've found that the two are fundamentally different decks and on a competitive level Kresh is strongest as a Pod/Re-animator/toolbox build. The main reason I choose Kresh over Adun Oakenshield as a reanimation general is because Kresh provides a solid dependable win condition as opposed to just another card that gets creatures out of your yard. He is also a deck that can be unpredictable, Prossh I've found is very predictable and after playing him for any length of time in the same group of people they eventually know what to look out for, even players who have played against a Prossh deck once know how to stop the combo from going off. The deck also works well without Kresh having to be in play all the time like your primer has mentioned, without him in play you still have a obnoxiously persistent reanimation package that will almost guarantee that your board is never lacking for dudes to swing with.
In my experience the simplest way to win the game is by using Berserk, Temur Battle Rage, Fatal Frenzy, Hatred and Tainted Strike to kill with commander damage early in the game rather than waiting for Kresh to hit 21+ before swinging in. Kresh will attract the attention of every player in the game when he has hit 21 or higher power and with everyone on guard it is near impossible to sneak in for that lethal hit, hence the instant speed buffs. I prefer these methods over Fling effects because you simply don't have to wait as long before the cards will facilitate lethal damage. The only fling effect I use is Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord because he is easily tutored for if I need him and he hits every player at once. Fling effects are simply too situational to rely on and I personally do not recommend them. The other main way I use to win is combining Aggravated Assault with Sword of Feast and Famine, Nature's Will, and/or Bear Umbra to get infinite combat steps with just about any creature provided I can get through for damage. The land untap triggers are also incredibly useful for fighting through prison strategies that like to use Winter Orb and Static Orb witch I often have to play against. On a related note, Mana rocks are important to have to get the deck up and running quickly and I would not play the deck without them.
Re-animator also lends itself well to pulling off the Mikaeus/Triskelion, Kiki/Conscripts, or a Necrotic Ooze combo but these cards do not gel with the deck on their own enough to avoid being dead draws. This is what I decided to focus on as far as a win conditions and it has served me quite well.
The cards that I consider to be irreplaceable in this build are Sheoldred, Whispering One, Survival of the Fittest, Birthing Pod, and Sneak Attack these are what I have found to make the biggest impact to the decks overall speed and consistency and are what I consider the first cards to get when getting competitive.
Kresh dose lend himself to a lot of variants but this is the one that has worked for me so far.
Thanks for the insight. I don't have many suggestions for the deck. You've obviously put a lot of thought and consideration into it already.
Domri Rade seems a little questionable to me, but I guess if you are able to keep him on the board you can potentially get multiple kills off his fight ability. 31 creatures seems pretty hit or miss for his +1. May be a card you could upgrade. Sylvan Library maybe?
I'd consider cutting one of Wood Elves/Yavimaya Elder/Solemn Simulacrum for Green Sun's Zenith. At 3 mana you can still turn Green Sun's Zenith into a land with Sakura-tribe Elder early if needed and it'll be much better to top deck later as you can get Acidic Slime or Eternal Witness, etc...
It's interesting that you are basically just going straight beatdown and I agree Kresh is the right general for the deck. You are running enough legit red stuff to justify going Jund. Most of my theorizing focused more on creature combo's or ways to go infinite power with Kresh and I always ended up deciding Jarad or The Mimeoplasm or some other general did it better. I didn't give much thought to Tainted Strike, Berserk, and the like even though I use those strategies in other decks, well done.
I will have to update the OP at some point and link this deck to show people how it's done (my computer gave out last night so may be a bit).
It is incredibly gratifying to hear you would consider linking my list into your OC, thank you so much for the consideration its very flattering. I will write a more through breakdown of the deck and its interactions for the OC.
As far as the recommendations I will absolutely add Sylvan Library in place of Domri, seems like a fair upgrade. Although I am a little hesitant to add Green Sun Zenith over something like Worldly Tutor or Ideally Vampiric Tutor due to the high concentration of black creatures but it is something I will consider.
I will have a primer written and sent to you soon.
Posted some major changes to the deck list and change log, taking advantage of some more recently printed cards. Still haven't fixed/replaced my computer so making these updates on my phone was painstaking. I will have to rewrite some stuff when I get enough ambition to get the computer situation fixed.
I have to say the new Selvala is insane in this deck. She's great anyway but with the number of powerful creatures it's running and mana thirsty plays to be made she is devastating. I won a game very early when I managed to get Selvala and Sneak Attack on board, tutor for Malignus, tap Selvala for 20 mana, cast Disciple of Bolas to sac Malignus, draw 20 cards and vomit all the creatures I drew onto the board for one red each with Sneak Attack. That sort of thing happens pretty easily with her.
Berserk's reprinting was great too for obvious reasons. It can do so much more than just pump and attacking creature with cards like Momentous Fall and Chandra's Ignition, although doubling a creature's power and trampling at instant speed is pretty good too.
Some other new cards I'm considering since Kaladesh: Verdurous Gearhulk - A vanilla creature, but 8 power for 5 mana is more relevant in this power matters deck than it normally would be. Also works great with all the recursion and Doubling Season. Combustible Gearhulk - I really don't like giving opponents a choice, but the curve in this deck is relatively high and this can be recurred. Aid From the Cowl - With only 15 non-permanents in the deck, this will hit more often than not and with the number of sacrifice options it shouldn't be hard to trigger it every turn. There's maybe a bit too much randomness and potential low impact for my liking, especially with the amount of precision this deck needs when choosing lines of play. I'd like to have more ways to set up the top of my library if I was going to use it(really just have Sylvan Library right now). Rhonas the Indomitable - Would be super easy to get on line in this deck and trample is very relevant with some of the big boys like Malignus, Lord of Extinction, and Kresh. I also really like the indestructible deathtouch (of course). Will wait for the price to drop if I decide to give him a shot.
5/26/17 Change log update
Out - Scute Mob
In - Bane of Progress
Reasoning - Not really sure why it wasn't on my radar but Bane of Progress seems like a pretty obvious card for the deck. With all the creature tutors it can be accessed pretty easily when needed and has the potential to just be a total blowout. It also uses +1/+1 counters so there's Doubling Season... no wait, that won't work. Oh well, there's the obvious downside of killing our own stuff so will so how it goes. Scute Mob was always a bit of a throw in and as the deck has progress to a more explode all at once strategy its usefulness has gone down quite a bit. It really does nothing turn one.
6/29/17 update:
Brought back the Real Game Examples section after previously scrapping it due to it being out of date. Played a ton of games over the weekend, but I have a dozen decks and counting now, so only pulled out Kresh three times. I won the two games below and lost the third in a weird one where I didn't get a single piece of ramp while my opponents all seemed to go crazy immediately.
6/24/17
I had taken out one opponent very early with a Malignus and Xenagos, God of Revels. The remaining three of us were basically keeping each other in check with board wipes and removal, causing the game to go over 10 turns with no one able to keep an edge. I had a pretty full graveyard and had drawn 6 cards with Rishkar's Expertise on a 6/6 Bane of Progress the previous turn. My opponent, running an Oloro, Ageless Ascetic deck had just gotten to 51 life with an Aetherflux Reservoir in play by durdling out a bunch of spells. He was feeling pretty smug as he passed the turn as he now had me and the other opponent hostage, with the option to kill either one us on the spot if we did something he didn’t like.
When it got around to me, I cast Beast Within on his Aetherflux Reservoir and he responded by paying 50 life (which would put him at 1) to deal 50 damage to me. I responded by casting Twilight's Call and paying the extra 2 to cast it as an instant. One of the creatures I returned was Inferno Titan, which I had do 3 damage to him, and put him at 48 life, killing him when his pay 50 life resolved and removing the 50 damage to me from the stack when he died. The other player and I both had quite a few creatures returning to play, but the combination of my returning Urabrask the Hidden and Nacatl War-Pride were enough to allow me to get in with my other creatures and hit him for lethal.
6/25/17
This was an unusually long game and I couldn’t seem to get anything except a Xenagos, God of Revels to stick as I was getting hit with removal seemingly as soon as I could put anything into play. To make matters worse, one of my opponents was running Anafenza, the Foremost protected by Bear Umbra and had almost completely shut down any graveyard shenanigans I would normally be able to do. He also had Sun Titan and Aura Shards in play and was looking pretty dominant.
I was mostly out of gas and in serious danger when I top-decked Survival of the Fittest. I used it to pitch a creature from my hand into exile (thanks Anafenza) and grab Sidisi, Undead Vizier. I played Sidsi, extorting herself, and got Tooth and Nail. I didn’t have enough mana to cast it yet.
We went around the table with my Survival of the Fittest getting destroyed by the Aura Shards of course and me taking a decent chunk of damage. On my turn I cast Tooth and Nail entwined, putting Lord of Extinction and Disciple of Bolas into play. I sac’d the Lord of Extinction to the Disciple’s ETB, drawing 34 cards and gaining 34 life and putting me back into the game. I still had 6 mana available and really wanted to take out Anafenza, then pitch my creatures into the graveyard on my end step to be recurred by Twilight's Call the next turn, but I just couldn’t figure out a way to get past the Bear Umbra. That is my normal line of play in that scenario and it took me a minute to realize I could essentially do the same thing by keeping the creatures in my hand with the Sneak Attack I’d been holding onto.
On my next turn I played Sneak Attack, unloading my hand of creatures which included Avenger of Zendikar getting 13 plant tokens, a Feldon of the Third Path who created a Malignus token from my meager graveyard, Nacatl War-Pride, 2 other creatures, and Craterhoof Behemoth putting it all over the top. Although the plant tokens didn’t have haste, the over 20 power and trample added to my other creatures, as well as an over 100 power trampling Malignus token (using Xenagos), was enough to swing for lethal on all three players.
Taking a quick look at cards I'm considering from the set. There are a lot of sweet EDH cards in Hour of Devastation, but not too many that I think fit here. Still, the ones that do are very tempting.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded - Probably the card I'm considering the most. Potentially a repeatable tutor that only requires a small amount of life and a creature, which I should usually have. Not much needs to be said about the ceiling on this guy but it is very high. I have some concerns though. I'm already running Craterhoof and Terastodon in the 8 mana slot and not sure I want to add a third, nor do I think he could replace either of those. I still have to be able to cast the cards after I tutor for them and that's probably going to be next turn unless I cheat him in (very possible). He is also better when you have an infinite combo to fetch which I am not running. I was running Rune-Scarred Demon and eventually took him out and replaced him with Sidisi just for CMC reasons. Ultimately, I think I have to give him a try at the very least and think he could find a permanent spot in the deck. I tend to have sac'able creatures in spades - Awakening Zone, Nacatl War-Pride, Avenger of Zendikar, Mimic Vat, Sneak Attack, etc. and that is definitely the most limiting factor for him. He is also 8/8 Flying Trample, which is relevant for the deck. Now, I just need to figure out what I'd be cutting...
Uncage the Menagerie - Looking specifically at 2, 3, 4, and 5 slots this could double as ramp early and just as card draw or a finisher late or even some combination of the three. I really like that versatility. The 3 and 4 slots especially have some great value and the 5 slot is full of big hitters. Ultimately, I just don't like that it puts the cards into hand and I'm probably going to have to wait a turn around the table to take advantage of it. I really hate spending a turn with no impact on the table and there are so many situations where you just can't afford to do that. I could be being a bit harsh, but right now I don't think this'll make it into the deck.
3 Big Game Hunter
3 Eternal Witness
3 Feldon of the Third Path
3 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
3 Yavimaya Elder
Hour of Promise - I know there's a lot of hype around this, but 5 mana is just too slow for ramping for me, especially since I'm not running Urborg and Cabal Coffers. I tried it with Seedguide Ash and 5 mana is just an awkward spot where it really felt like I should be doing something more impactful.
Ramanup Excavator - This deck really wants creatures with abilities that aren't usually tied to a creature and that's exactly what this is. It's pretty common to discard lands when I draw a bunch of cards, but other than that I'm only running the 3 in color fetches so I think this would be too inconsistent to run.
Neheb, the Eternal - I love this guy and plan on making a deck with him at the helm. He's somewhat interesting here, but the deck tends to want to spend mana pre-combat and then unleash hell on someone during the combat phase. The 5 mana slot is also completely taken and he isn't unseating any of those creatures.
God-Pharaoh's Gift - I'm glad they made this so you can use it the turn it comes into play at least. This deck has ETB for days and the power rarely of the creatures matters as they are either in the deck for their ability or their ability will override the 4/4. The tokens it creates could be doubled with Doubling Season too. It's just really hard to get past the 7 CMC. I think there are better, faster, ways to cheat stuff into play.
Change log
Out - Doubling Season, Dragonmaster Outcast, Protean Hulk
In - Razaketh, the Foulblooded, Pathbreaker Ibex, Mana Crypt
Reasoning - The deck has been continually evolving away from the attrition style that the token producers support and as that has happened the number of cards that work with Doubling Season has been steadily dropping. There are still about 10 cards that work with it, including Kresh, but the impact on many of those is just not that high for the small chance of having them out with Doubling Season at the same time. Even the two Garruk ultimates are nothing to write home about. I really can't remember the last time the card had an impact on a game. The same logic applies to the removal of Dragonmaster Outcast. It isn't that the deck doesn't want tokens, it just wants quantity over quality. One 5/5 dragon per turn (the turn after he comes into play) just doesn't tend to get the job when the deck wants to go off right now. Protean Hulk just isn't worth it at 7 mana when I'm not really doing anything unfair with him. Sure, he works well with Birthing Pod, Eldritch Evolution, and the like, but the impact just wasn't there.
Razaketh I expect to be able to just win games in short order. The deck has many routes to sudden victory and he enables the best line of play every time. Not sure how relevant it is but being an 8/8 flying trampler doesn't hurt either. The deck wasn't as focused on the juggernaut strategy and also didn't have the number of haste enablers it does now when Pathbreaker Ibex was released so he sort of slipped past me and then fell off my radar. I saw him the other day and immediately realized he needed to go into the deck. I expect him to be better than craterhoof most of the time and if Malignus, Lord of Extinction, or a pumped Kresh are in play it's nighty night for the table. Not much needs to be said about Mana Crypt. I got my hands on one recently so in it goes.
Deck Introduction update to provide some clarity on R-Rated
I’m talking about 80’s and 90’s action movies here. Jean Claude Van-Damme, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Mel Gibson, Dolph Lundgren, Chuck Norris, Wesley Snipes, you get the idea. Well, we’re adding Kresh to that list. The acting is bad. The movies are over the top, no holds barred, and any other cliché you can think of. They’re also totally awesome when you’re a young teen boy with an overactive imagination. That’s this deck in a nutshell. It lacks subtlety and sophistication but makes up for it with explosions. Kresh wants to win by dropping a grenade down the opponent’s pants and saying “huntng season is over” or hitting them with a flame thrower and asking how they like their ribs. The deck can’t be counted out, no matter what the odds and it’s a lot of fun.
Added action movie quotes to the R-Rated Action Movie Stars in the Other Commanders section
Added a Kresh 101 section that gives a brief overview of different Kresh strategies.
Commander 2017 Card Review
Very light on playable cards for this deck, which isn't that unexpected with the tribal focus.
Path of Ancestry - Not sexy, but a very small upgrade over Savage Lands. I am running 6 humans and 1 warrior in addition to Kresh right now so the scrying will not be irrelevant.
Traverse the Outlands - Another new power matters card. Not sure how I feel about adding this one. It could be very good and I am running 13 basics. That five mana slot is very tight though and I think I have better things to do with Malignus and friends. I may give it a try.
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen - Forces players to sacrifice creatures and creates tokens, all things this deck and most Kresh decks will want to be doing. It's just a little too low impact and not explosive enough for the deck. And again that 5 CMC slot is full.
Kindred Dominance - This isn't a tribal deck, but I'm still intrigued by this one. With Kresh in play, you could choose Warrior or Human and potentially wipe the rest of the table with only Kresh remaining alive and watch the +1/+1 counters pile up. I don't see it going into the deck but I like it.
May be missing some fringe stuff, but I think that's really about it for interesting cards in Commander 2017 with this deck.
Good call out. I'm not sure what the critical mass of equipment is to make the hammer worth running over Darksteel Plate but if you want a second equipment that grants indestructible it's definitely better than Shield of Kaldra. The +2/+0 and free equip ability are both relevant.
My kresh deck is kind of similar to yours, I had a few questions about how you feel about certain cards.
How do you feel about Cultivate or Kodama's Reach? I used to run the Awakening Zone and From Beyond package, but I feel they were a little too slow for me. I found that ramping early into your bigger spells for the mid game helped think the deck, as well as keeping your land drops every turn. I also replaced Veteran Explorer with Birds of Paradise. I fight a very control heavy meta, and ramping control is usually a big no no for me.
My kresh deck is kind of similar to yours, I had a few questions about how you feel about certain cards.
How do you feel about Cultivate or Kodama's Reach? I used to run the Awakening Zone and From Beyond package, but I feel they were a little too slow for me. I found that ramping early into your bigger spells for the mid game helped think the deck, as well as keeping your land drops every turn. I also replaced Veteran Explorer with Birds of Paradise. I fight a very control heavy meta, and ramping control is usually a big no no for me.
Lemme know your thoughts!
Hello and thank you!
Veteran Explorer vs. Birds of Paradise - You may just be right about this. Veteran Explorer has blown up on me a few times by allowing opponents to get out of hand early when I didn't get any gas or couldn't keep up. Generally, I like to think that I am getting the better end of the extra mana most of the time or at the very least breaking even due to the escalating nature of the deck. I also like that I get the benefit even when he's dead or sacrificed (more on that in a second). Birds is more consistent and doesn't benefit the opponent.
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach - You are probably right to be running these too. These are staples for a reason and in my opinion should be in any green deck that doesn't have a valid reason not to run them. I have made a conscious decision in this case to use creatures as much as possible for everything I can - ramp, removal, card draw, etc. There are a couple reason for this.
First, Kresh gets bigger when creatures die (of course) so if I use Viridian Emissary to ramp for a land I also give Kresh +2/+2. This is pretty minor with the small guys and actually no benefit when the 0/1 tokens from Awakening Zone.
Thirdly, these two cards: Pathbreaker Ibex Craterhoof Behemoth
Those little scions become pretty scary when they are suddenly getting +10/+10 and trample.
And the final reason is the amount of creature tutors I have in the deck. 8 out of the 12 tutors I'm running only get creatures so any creature in the deck is that much more available to me when I need it if that makes sense? Theoretically, if I put a Craw Wurm in here I get 13 copies of it (the creature plus the 12 tutors) and if I put Lightning Bolt I'd only have 5 (the spell and the 4 noncreature tutors). That probably isn't the right way to phrase that but I hope you get the idea. Of course, this isn't relevant with the two enchantments but with the overall idea of running as many creatures as I can.
There's no doubt Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are better at ramping quickly than Awakening Zone and From Beyond, but I'm giving a little of that up for the versatility and multiple purposes the creature tokens provide. In this case as sacrifice targets and potential big hitters down the road.
My kresh deck is kind of similar to yours, I had a few questions about how you feel about certain cards.
How do you feel about Cultivate or Kodama's Reach? I used to run the Awakening Zone and From Beyond package, but I feel they were a little too slow for me. I found that ramping early into your bigger spells for the mid game helped think the deck, as well as keeping your land drops every turn. I also replaced Veteran Explorer with Birds of Paradise. I fight a very control heavy meta, and ramping control is usually a big no no for me.
Lemme know your thoughts!
Hello and thank you!
Veteran Explorer vs. Birds of Paradise - You may just be right about this. Veteran Explorer has blown up on me a few times by allowing opponents to get out of hand early when I didn't get any gas or couldn't keep up. Generally, I like to think that I am getting the better end of the extra mana most of the time or at the very least breaking even due to the escalating nature of the deck. I also like that I get the benefit even when he's dead or sacrificed (more on that in a second). Birds is more consistent and doesn't benefit the opponent.
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach - You are probably right to be running these too. These are staples for a reason and in my opinion should be in any green deck that doesn't have a valid reason not to run them. I have made a conscious decision in this case to use creatures as much as possible for everything I can - ramp, removal, card draw, etc. There are a couple reason for this.
First, Kresh gets bigger when creatures die (of course) so if I use Viridian Emissary to ramp for a land I also give Kresh +2/+2. This is pretty minor with the small guys and actually no benefit when the 0/1 tokens from Awakening Zone.
Thirdly, these two cards: Pathbreaker Ibex Craterhoof Behemoth
Those little scions become pretty scary when they are suddenly getting +10/+10 and trample.
And the final reason is the amount of creature tutors I have in the deck. 8 out of the 12 tutors I'm running only get creatures so any creature in the deck is that much more available to me when I need it if that makes sense? Theoretically, if I put a Craw Wurm in here I get 13 copies of it (the creature plus the 12 tutors) and if I put Lightning Bolt I'd only have 5 (the spell and the 4 noncreature tutors). That probably isn't the right way to phrase that but I hope you get the idea. Of course, this isn't relevant with the two enchantments but with the overall idea of running as many creatures as I can.
There's no doubt Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are better at ramping quickly than Awakening Zone and From Beyond, but I'm giving a little of that up for the versatility and multiple purposes the creature tokens provide. In this case as sacrifice targets and potential big hitters down the road.
Ah I see your point! I guess sacrificing some early speed for some late game power is a good route to go, I hadn't thought of that. This might be a meta call though. My LCS has alot of decks which explode mid game, and the late game (10+ turns) very rarely happens, so I feel like an early start is better off than waiting for late game explosiveness.
Also, is their any particular reason you aren't running Balefire Dragon or Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger? Balefire seems like an auto-include in any Kresh deck and Vorinclex is, if anything, a mana doubler.
Ah I see your point! I guess sacrificing some early speed for some late game power is a good route to go, I hadn't thought of that. This might be a meta call though. My LCS has alot of decks which explode mid game, and the late game (10+ turns) very rarely happens, so I feel like an early start is better off than waiting for late game explosiveness.
Yeah could be a meta call for sure. I'm still not even sure it's the right choice for me. I don't know that it really slows the deck down that much though. I have a bunch of other faster ramp that I will normally hit. My playgroup is pretty competitive (maybe 90% decks) but we don't use infinite combos so have to win "fairly". This allows for a lot of back and forth and players can team up on someone getting out of hand so the potential for games to go longer is always there.
Also, is their any particular reason you aren't running Balefire Dragon or Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger? Balefire seems like an auto-include in any Kresh deck and Vorinclex is, if anything, a mana doubler.
Balefire Dragon - A good card with Kresh, but I don't think it's an auto-include. 7 mana is a lot for something that doesn't impact the board unless you are able to attack and hit the opponent. And even if you are able to get through unblocked it's still only hitting one opponent's guys for 6 (most likely) and can potentially not even be enough damage to kill their problematic creatures. I also rarely find creatures to be the primary problem I have to deal with. This is a creature deck so at the very least I should have creatures of my own that are able to block and enough spot removal to deal with the non-combat creatures that become problematic most of the time. Noncreature permanents tend to be the bigger problem and where I've focused more removal like Acidic Slime, Bane of Progress, and Terastodon. This deck is also very proactive instead of reactive. I'm much less concerned about what the opponent is doing as long as they aren't winning the game and more concerned about trying to explode into a sudden win myself. Don't get me wrong, it can be very very good if you are able to get through and kill a bunch of dudes, but these are the reasons I'm not using it.
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - More of the same really. I feel like if I have the 8 mana available to cast this guy I don't need to be trying to double it at that point and there's probably something better I can be casting to try to win the game. If you can get Vorinclex to stick he can be extremely oppressive, but he tends to make you public enemy number one. Without a more controlly deck it's unlikely he'll survive long against 3 opponents who are all trying to take him out. I have Razaketh, the Foulblooded, Craterhoof Behemoth, and Terastodon in the 8 mana slot already, so it's overfull as it is. Craterhoof and Terastodon both have immediate impact on the board and though Razaketh doesn't, he can get whatever card or cards I need to win or get out of a sticky situation as soon as he's cast.
Let me just say that, lately, I found Malignus and Pathbreaker Ibex to be a wild pair. I've won some games out of nowhere with this two cards. One unsuspecting tapped out opponent at 40+ life and bam, a 40+ trample Malignus
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GBR May the Jund'ish side of the Force be with you! GBR
Let me just say that, lately, I found Malignus and Pathbreaker Ibex to be a wild pair. I've won some games out of nowhere with this two cards. One unsuspecting tapped out opponent at 40+ life and bam, a 40+ trample Malignus
I know right. I almost feel bad doing this, almost Pathbreaker essentially replaced Craterhoof Behemoth as the go to pump and trample creature as soon as I added him to the deck. With Malignus and a few other creatures on the board it's usually just game over and can come out of nowhere.
Yeah could be a meta call for sure. I'm still not even sure it's the right choice for me. I don't know that it really slows the deck down that much though. I have a bunch of other faster ramp that I will normally hit. My playgroup is pretty competitive (maybe 90% decks) but we don't use infinite combos so have to win "fairly". This allows for a lot of back and forth and players can team up on someone getting out of hand so the potential for games to go longer is always there.
Well, my LCS has infinites in them, and I sometimes do fight them, hence why I feel the Awakening Zone and From Beyond are just a tad too slow, not by much though you are right. I don't expect to win every game. heck, I dont expect to win half the games I play, I just wanted to try to see if I needed to sacrifice some of the deck resilience for speed.
Also, out of curiosity, if you had an infinite budget, is their anything you would put in?
Yeah could be a meta call for sure. I'm still not even sure it's the right choice for me. I don't know that it really slows the deck down that much though. I have a bunch of other faster ramp that I will normally hit. My playgroup is pretty competitive (maybe 90% decks) but we don't use infinite combos so have to win "fairly". This allows for a lot of back and forth and players can team up on someone getting out of hand so the potential for games to go longer is always there.
Well, my LCS has infinites in them, and I sometimes do fight them, hence why I feel the Awakening Zone and From Beyond are just a tad too slow, not by much though you are right. I don't expect to win every game. heck, I dont expect to win half the games I play, I just wanted to try to see if I needed to sacrifice some of the deck resilience for speed.
Honestly, you have me thinking about overhauling the deck right now. It's been devolving from a midrange attrition deck into something very explosive in an effort to just bypass a lot of the removal that can turn attrition games into luck of the draw (who has the first game-winning card once the table has run out of answers). I've removed a ton of token making cards already and just recently cut Doubling Season for that reason. There are still a lot of attrition based cards in the deck though. I think I could turn it into a ramping, mana-cheating, hasty monster that just obliterated people if I just cut all the attrition stuff (so yeah cards like Awakening Zone and From Beyond, among many others) and retooled it. My playgroup might hate it, but I usually only play it once or twice a weekend when we meet anyway.
This may be a project for me the next couple weekends.
Also, out of curiosity, if you had an infinite budget, is their anything you would put in?
The original duals for sure. There are probably some others that I'm not thinking of cause I just don't have the funds I used to have a section in the primer for cards I couldn't afford but wanted, but I've bought most of them now and took it out. It included Sneak Attack, Survival of the Fittest, Mana Crypt, and Sylvan Library. They were all reprinted at least once since then and I scooped them up at their lowest.
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1x Acidic Slime
1x Anger
1x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Doomed Necromancer
1x Eternal Witness
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Grave Titan
1x Inferno Titan
1x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Lightning Mauler
1x Magus of the Abyss
1x Magus of the Wheel
1x Merciless Executioner
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Shadowborn Demon
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Shriekmaw
1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1x Slum Reaper
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Ulvenwald Tracker
1x Urabrask the Hidden
1x Wood Elves
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Birthing Pod
1x Golgari Signet
1x Gruul Signet
1x Mana Vault
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Talisman of Impulse
1x Talisman of Indulgence
Enchantment (7)
1x Aggravated Assault
1x Animate Dead
1x Bear Umbra
1x Nature's Will
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
1x Sneak Attack
1x Survival of the Fittest
Planeswalker (2)
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Domri Rade
Land (34)
1x Blood Crypt
1x Cinder Glade
1x Command Tower
1x Dragonskull Summit
5x Forest
1x High Market
1x Karplusan Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Kher Keep
1x Llanowar Wastes
5x Mountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Savage Lands
1x Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sulfurous Springs
4x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Berserk
1x Fatal Frenzy
1x Hatred
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Noxious Revival
1x Tainted Strike
1x Temur Battle Rage
Sorcery (8)
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Life // Death
1x Living Death
1x Reanimate
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Treasured Find
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Yawgmoth's Will
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
*edited my original post to reflect modifications*
Sweet, thanks for posting. I'll take a closer look at your list when I get home from work.
I have actually been throwing around the idea of Kresh as a competitive commander off and on for a while, coming up with different strategies and win conditions I would use and considered updating the primer with suggestions. Unfortunately, I am not in the right meta to actually test my theories and have been too lazy to get online. The question I keep coming back to is "Why Kresh over commander so and so?" and once we start talking competitive play the answer can no longer be "Cause he's a bad bad man" (which he is). Now, there are definitely things he brings to the table that no other commander does, so I'm not saying there isn't an answer by any means. I'm just not in the position of expertise to speak definitely on it.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on your deck's and Kresh's strengths in your competitive meta. I may consider tweaking that sentence in the primer:)
After having played both Kresh extensively as well as his main competitor in Jund, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher. I've found that the two are fundamentally different decks and on a competitive level Kresh is strongest as a Pod/Re-animator/toolbox build. The main reason I choose Kresh over Adun Oakenshield as a reanimation general is because Kresh provides a solid dependable win condition as opposed to just another card that gets creatures out of your yard. He is also a deck that can be unpredictable, Prossh I've found is very predictable and after playing him for any length of time in the same group of people they eventually know what to look out for, even players who have played against a Prossh deck once know how to stop the combo from going off. The deck also works well without Kresh having to be in play all the time like your primer has mentioned, without him in play you still have a obnoxiously persistent reanimation package that will almost guarantee that your board is never lacking for dudes to swing with.
In my experience the simplest way to win the game is by using Berserk, Temur Battle Rage, Fatal Frenzy, Hatred and Tainted Strike to kill with commander damage early in the game rather than waiting for Kresh to hit 21+ before swinging in. Kresh will attract the attention of every player in the game when he has hit 21 or higher power and with everyone on guard it is near impossible to sneak in for that lethal hit, hence the instant speed buffs. I prefer these methods over Fling effects because you simply don't have to wait as long before the cards will facilitate lethal damage. The only fling effect I use is Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord because he is easily tutored for if I need him and he hits every player at once. Fling effects are simply too situational to rely on and I personally do not recommend them. The other main way I use to win is combining Aggravated Assault with Sword of Feast and Famine, Nature's Will, and/or Bear Umbra to get infinite combat steps with just about any creature provided I can get through for damage. The land untap triggers are also incredibly useful for fighting through prison strategies that like to use Winter Orb and Static Orb witch I often have to play against. On a related note, Mana rocks are important to have to get the deck up and running quickly and I would not play the deck without them.
Re-animator also lends itself well to pulling off the Mikaeus/Triskelion, Kiki/Conscripts, or a Necrotic Ooze combo but these cards do not gel with the deck on their own enough to avoid being dead draws. This is what I decided to focus on as far as a win conditions and it has served me quite well.
The cards that I consider to be irreplaceable in this build are Sheoldred, Whispering One, Survival of the Fittest, Birthing Pod, and Sneak Attack these are what I have found to make the biggest impact to the decks overall speed and consistency and are what I consider the first cards to get when getting competitive.
Kresh dose lend himself to a lot of variants but this is the one that has worked for me so far.
P.S. Beast Within and Rune-Scarred Demon were recently cut for Wurmcoil Engine and Inferno Titan.
I will say I have considered the Charger as an include but two things bug me, first the mana cost. 6 is just a touch high as I would like to keep the mana curve low. Second is that I already run Aggravated Assault which is half the mana cost and harder to remove after I have played it since it is not a creature.
Running both could be viable considering I use Sword of Feast and Famine and Nature's Will to duplicate Bear Umbra's ability. Having Assault and Charger would mean getting this combo to work is easier so I will test it and see what happens.
Thanks for the insight. I don't have many suggestions for the deck. You've obviously put a lot of thought and consideration into it already.
Domri Rade seems a little questionable to me, but I guess if you are able to keep him on the board you can potentially get multiple kills off his fight ability. 31 creatures seems pretty hit or miss for his +1. May be a card you could upgrade. Sylvan Library maybe?
I'd consider cutting one of Wood Elves/Yavimaya Elder/Solemn Simulacrum for Green Sun's Zenith. At 3 mana you can still turn Green Sun's Zenith into a land with Sakura-tribe Elder early if needed and it'll be much better to top deck later as you can get Acidic Slime or Eternal Witness, etc...
It's interesting that you are basically just going straight beatdown and I agree Kresh is the right general for the deck. You are running enough legit red stuff to justify going Jund. Most of my theorizing focused more on creature combo's or ways to go infinite power with Kresh and I always ended up deciding Jarad or The Mimeoplasm or some other general did it better. I didn't give much thought to Tainted Strike, Berserk, and the like even though I use those strategies in other decks, well done.
I will have to update the OP at some point and link this deck to show people how it's done (my computer gave out last night so may be a bit).
As far as the recommendations I will absolutely add Sylvan Library in place of Domri, seems like a fair upgrade. Although I am a little hesitant to add Green Sun Zenith over something like Worldly Tutor or Ideally Vampiric Tutor due to the high concentration of black creatures but it is something I will consider.
I will have a primer written and sent to you soon.
Thank you again!
I have to say the new Selvala is insane in this deck. She's great anyway but with the number of powerful creatures it's running and mana thirsty plays to be made she is devastating. I won a game very early when I managed to get Selvala and Sneak Attack on board, tutor for Malignus, tap Selvala for 20 mana, cast Disciple of Bolas to sac Malignus, draw 20 cards and vomit all the creatures I drew onto the board for one red each with Sneak Attack. That sort of thing happens pretty easily with her.
Berserk's reprinting was great too for obvious reasons. It can do so much more than just pump and attacking creature with cards like Momentous Fall and Chandra's Ignition, although doubling a creature's power and trampling at instant speed is pretty good too.
Glad to see, commented on another Kresh link that this mana dork belongs in here. If you untap with an active Selvala you are probably going to win.
I completely rehauled the How to Play section as the deck has changed quite a bit since this originally became a primer.
Added Protean Hulk, Rishkar's expertise, and Natural Order since the latest post six months ago.
Some other new cards I'm considering since Kaladesh:
Verdurous Gearhulk - A vanilla creature, but 8 power for 5 mana is more relevant in this power matters deck than it normally would be. Also works great with all the recursion and Doubling Season.
Combustible Gearhulk - I really don't like giving opponents a choice, but the curve in this deck is relatively high and this can be recurred.
Aid From the Cowl - With only 15 non-permanents in the deck, this will hit more often than not and with the number of sacrifice options it shouldn't be hard to trigger it every turn. There's maybe a bit too much randomness and potential low impact for my liking, especially with the amount of precision this deck needs when choosing lines of play. I'd like to have more ways to set up the top of my library if I was going to use it(really just have Sylvan Library right now).
Rhonas the Indomitable - Would be super easy to get on line in this deck and trample is very relevant with some of the big boys like Malignus, Lord of Extinction, and Kresh. I also really like the indestructible deathtouch (of course). Will wait for the price to drop if I decide to give him a shot.
Out - Scute Mob
In - Bane of Progress
Reasoning - Not really sure why it wasn't on my radar but Bane of Progress seems like a pretty obvious card for the deck. With all the creature tutors it can be accessed pretty easily when needed and has the potential to just be a total blowout. It also uses +1/+1 counters so there's Doubling Season... no wait, that won't work. Oh well, there's the obvious downside of killing our own stuff so will so how it goes. Scute Mob was always a bit of a throw in and as the deck has progress to a more explode all at once strategy its usefulness has gone down quite a bit. It really does nothing turn one.
Brought back the Real Game Examples section after previously scrapping it due to it being out of date. Played a ton of games over the weekend, but I have a dozen decks and counting now, so only pulled out Kresh three times. I won the two games below and lost the third in a weird one where I didn't get a single piece of ramp while my opponents all seemed to go crazy immediately.
6/24/17
I had taken out one opponent very early with a Malignus and Xenagos, God of Revels. The remaining three of us were basically keeping each other in check with board wipes and removal, causing the game to go over 10 turns with no one able to keep an edge. I had a pretty full graveyard and had drawn 6 cards with Rishkar's Expertise on a 6/6 Bane of Progress the previous turn. My opponent, running an Oloro, Ageless Ascetic deck had just gotten to 51 life with an Aetherflux Reservoir in play by durdling out a bunch of spells. He was feeling pretty smug as he passed the turn as he now had me and the other opponent hostage, with the option to kill either one us on the spot if we did something he didn’t like.
When it got around to me, I cast Beast Within on his Aetherflux Reservoir and he responded by paying 50 life (which would put him at 1) to deal 50 damage to me. I responded by casting Twilight's Call and paying the extra 2 to cast it as an instant. One of the creatures I returned was Inferno Titan, which I had do 3 damage to him, and put him at 48 life, killing him when his pay 50 life resolved and removing the 50 damage to me from the stack when he died. The other player and I both had quite a few creatures returning to play, but the combination of my returning Urabrask the Hidden and Nacatl War-Pride were enough to allow me to get in with my other creatures and hit him for lethal.
6/25/17
This was an unusually long game and I couldn’t seem to get anything except a Xenagos, God of Revels to stick as I was getting hit with removal seemingly as soon as I could put anything into play. To make matters worse, one of my opponents was running Anafenza, the Foremost protected by Bear Umbra and had almost completely shut down any graveyard shenanigans I would normally be able to do. He also had Sun Titan and Aura Shards in play and was looking pretty dominant.
I was mostly out of gas and in serious danger when I top-decked Survival of the Fittest. I used it to pitch a creature from my hand into exile (thanks Anafenza) and grab Sidisi, Undead Vizier. I played Sidsi, extorting herself, and got Tooth and Nail. I didn’t have enough mana to cast it yet.
We went around the table with my Survival of the Fittest getting destroyed by the Aura Shards of course and me taking a decent chunk of damage. On my turn I cast Tooth and Nail entwined, putting Lord of Extinction and Disciple of Bolas into play. I sac’d the Lord of Extinction to the Disciple’s ETB, drawing 34 cards and gaining 34 life and putting me back into the game. I still had 6 mana available and really wanted to take out Anafenza, then pitch my creatures into the graveyard on my end step to be recurred by Twilight's Call the next turn, but I just couldn’t figure out a way to get past the Bear Umbra. That is my normal line of play in that scenario and it took me a minute to realize I could essentially do the same thing by keeping the creatures in my hand with the Sneak Attack I’d been holding onto.
On my next turn I played Sneak Attack, unloading my hand of creatures which included Avenger of Zendikar getting 13 plant tokens, a Feldon of the Third Path who created a Malignus token from my meager graveyard, Nacatl War-Pride, 2 other creatures, and Craterhoof Behemoth putting it all over the top. Although the plant tokens didn’t have haste, the over 20 power and trample added to my other creatures, as well as an over 100 power trampling Malignus token (using Xenagos), was enough to swing for lethal on all three players.
Taking a quick look at cards I'm considering from the set. There are a lot of sweet EDH cards in Hour of Devastation, but not too many that I think fit here. Still, the ones that do are very tempting.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded - Probably the card I'm considering the most. Potentially a repeatable tutor that only requires a small amount of life and a creature, which I should usually have. Not much needs to be said about the ceiling on this guy but it is very high. I have some concerns though. I'm already running Craterhoof and Terastodon in the 8 mana slot and not sure I want to add a third, nor do I think he could replace either of those. I still have to be able to cast the cards after I tutor for them and that's probably going to be next turn unless I cheat him in (very possible). He is also better when you have an infinite combo to fetch which I am not running. I was running Rune-Scarred Demon and eventually took him out and replaced him with Sidisi just for CMC reasons. Ultimately, I think I have to give him a try at the very least and think he could find a permanent spot in the deck. I tend to have sac'able creatures in spades - Awakening Zone, Nacatl War-Pride, Avenger of Zendikar, Mimic Vat, Sneak Attack, etc. and that is definitely the most limiting factor for him. He is also 8/8 Flying Trample, which is relevant for the deck. Now, I just need to figure out what I'd be cutting...
Uncage the Menagerie - Looking specifically at 2, 3, 4, and 5 slots this could double as ramp early and just as card draw or a finisher late or even some combination of the three. I really like that versatility. The 3 and 4 slots especially have some great value and the 5 slot is full of big hitters. Ultimately, I just don't like that it puts the cards into hand and I'm probably going to have to wait a turn around the table to take advantage of it. I really hate spending a turn with no impact on the table and there are so many situations where you just can't afford to do that. I could be being a bit harsh, but right now I don't think this'll make it into the deck.
3 Big Game Hunter
3 Eternal Witness
3 Feldon of the Third Path
3 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
3 Yavimaya Elder
4 Anger
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Acidic Slime
5 Lord of Extinction
5 Malignus
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
5 Xenagos, God of Revels
5 Urabrask the Hidden
Hour of Promise - I know there's a lot of hype around this, but 5 mana is just too slow for ramping for me, especially since I'm not running Urborg and Cabal Coffers. I tried it with Seedguide Ash and 5 mana is just an awkward spot where it really felt like I should be doing something more impactful.
Ramanup Excavator - This deck really wants creatures with abilities that aren't usually tied to a creature and that's exactly what this is. It's pretty common to discard lands when I draw a bunch of cards, but other than that I'm only running the 3 in color fetches so I think this would be too inconsistent to run.
Neheb, the Eternal - I love this guy and plan on making a deck with him at the helm. He's somewhat interesting here, but the deck tends to want to spend mana pre-combat and then unleash hell on someone during the combat phase. The 5 mana slot is also completely taken and he isn't unseating any of those creatures.
God-Pharaoh's Gift - I'm glad they made this so you can use it the turn it comes into play at least. This deck has ETB for days and the power rarely of the creatures matters as they are either in the deck for their ability or their ability will override the 4/4. The tokens it creates could be doubled with Doubling Season too. It's just really hard to get past the 7 CMC. I think there are better, faster, ways to cheat stuff into play.
Change log
Out - Doubling Season, Dragonmaster Outcast, Protean Hulk
In - Razaketh, the Foulblooded, Pathbreaker Ibex, Mana Crypt
Reasoning - The deck has been continually evolving away from the attrition style that the token producers support and as that has happened the number of cards that work with Doubling Season has been steadily dropping. There are still about 10 cards that work with it, including Kresh, but the impact on many of those is just not that high for the small chance of having them out with Doubling Season at the same time. Even the two Garruk ultimates are nothing to write home about. I really can't remember the last time the card had an impact on a game. The same logic applies to the removal of Dragonmaster Outcast. It isn't that the deck doesn't want tokens, it just wants quantity over quality. One 5/5 dragon per turn (the turn after he comes into play) just doesn't tend to get the job when the deck wants to go off right now. Protean Hulk just isn't worth it at 7 mana when I'm not really doing anything unfair with him. Sure, he works well with Birthing Pod, Eldritch Evolution, and the like, but the impact just wasn't there.
Razaketh I expect to be able to just win games in short order. The deck has many routes to sudden victory and he enables the best line of play every time. Not sure how relevant it is but being an 8/8 flying trampler doesn't hurt either. The deck wasn't as focused on the juggernaut strategy and also didn't have the number of haste enablers it does now when Pathbreaker Ibex was released so he sort of slipped past me and then fell off my radar. I saw him the other day and immediately realized he needed to go into the deck. I expect him to be better than craterhoof most of the time and if Malignus, Lord of Extinction, or a pumped Kresh are in play it's nighty night for the table. Not much needs to be said about Mana Crypt. I got my hands on one recently so in it goes.
Deck Introduction update to provide some clarity on R-Rated
I’m talking about 80’s and 90’s action movies here. Jean Claude Van-Damme, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Mel Gibson, Dolph Lundgren, Chuck Norris, Wesley Snipes, you get the idea. Well, we’re adding Kresh to that list. The acting is bad. The movies are over the top, no holds barred, and any other cliché you can think of. They’re also totally awesome when you’re a young teen boy with an overactive imagination. That’s this deck in a nutshell. It lacks subtlety and sophistication but makes up for it with explosions. Kresh wants to win by dropping a grenade down the opponent’s pants and saying “huntng season is over” or hitting them with a flame thrower and asking how they like their ribs. The deck can’t be counted out, no matter what the odds and it’s a lot of fun.
Added action movie quotes to the R-Rated Action Movie Stars in the Other Commanders section
Added a Kresh 101 section that gives a brief overview of different Kresh strategies.
Commander 2017 Card Review
Very light on playable cards for this deck, which isn't that unexpected with the tribal focus.
Path of Ancestry - Not sexy, but a very small upgrade over Savage Lands. I am running 6 humans and 1 warrior in addition to Kresh right now so the scrying will not be irrelevant.
Traverse the Outlands - Another new power matters card. Not sure how I feel about adding this one. It could be very good and I am running 13 basics. That five mana slot is very tight though and I think I have better things to do with Malignus and friends. I may give it a try.
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen - Forces players to sacrifice creatures and creates tokens, all things this deck and most Kresh decks will want to be doing. It's just a little too low impact and not explosive enough for the deck. And again that 5 CMC slot is full.
Kindred Dominance - This isn't a tribal deck, but I'm still intrigued by this one. With Kresh in play, you could choose Warrior or Human and potentially wipe the rest of the table with only Kresh remaining alive and watch the +1/+1 counters pile up. I don't see it going into the deck but I like it.
May be missing some fringe stuff, but I think that's really about it for interesting cards in Commander 2017 with this deck.
Rest don't matter from C17...
My kresh deck is kind of similar to yours, I had a few questions about how you feel about certain cards.
How do you feel about Cultivate or Kodama's Reach? I used to run the Awakening Zone and From Beyond package, but I feel they were a little too slow for me. I found that ramping early into your bigger spells for the mid game helped think the deck, as well as keeping your land drops every turn. I also replaced Veteran Explorer with Birds of Paradise. I fight a very control heavy meta, and ramping control is usually a big no no for me.
Lemme know your thoughts!
Hello and thank you!
Veteran Explorer vs. Birds of Paradise - You may just be right about this. Veteran Explorer has blown up on me a few times by allowing opponents to get out of hand early when I didn't get any gas or couldn't keep up. Generally, I like to think that I am getting the better end of the extra mana most of the time or at the very least breaking even due to the escalating nature of the deck. I also like that I get the benefit even when he's dead or sacrificed (more on that in a second). Birds is more consistent and doesn't benefit the opponent.
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach - You are probably right to be running these too. These are staples for a reason and in my opinion should be in any green deck that doesn't have a valid reason not to run them. I have made a conscious decision in this case to use creatures as much as possible for everything I can - ramp, removal, card draw, etc. There are a couple reason for this.
First, Kresh gets bigger when creatures die (of course) so if I use Viridian Emissary to ramp for a land I also give Kresh +2/+2. This is pretty minor with the small guys and actually no benefit when the 0/1 tokens from Awakening Zone.
Secondly, and probably most important for Awakening Zone and From Beyond are the following cards that all want small investment creatures to sacrifice:
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Razaketh, the Foulblooded (obviously, they are great with this guy)
Diabolic Intent
Eldritch Evolution
Victimize
Natural Order (doesn't work with the eldrazi scions but relevant with Veteran Explorer)
Birthing Pod
Thirdly, these two cards:
Pathbreaker Ibex
Craterhoof Behemoth
Those little scions become pretty scary when they are suddenly getting +10/+10 and trample.
And the final reason is the amount of creature tutors I have in the deck. 8 out of the 12 tutors I'm running only get creatures so any creature in the deck is that much more available to me when I need it if that makes sense? Theoretically, if I put a Craw Wurm in here I get 13 copies of it (the creature plus the 12 tutors) and if I put Lightning Bolt I'd only have 5 (the spell and the 4 noncreature tutors). That probably isn't the right way to phrase that but I hope you get the idea. Of course, this isn't relevant with the two enchantments but with the overall idea of running as many creatures as I can.
There's no doubt Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are better at ramping quickly than Awakening Zone and From Beyond, but I'm giving a little of that up for the versatility and multiple purposes the creature tokens provide. In this case as sacrifice targets and potential big hitters down the road.
Ah I see your point! I guess sacrificing some early speed for some late game power is a good route to go, I hadn't thought of that. This might be a meta call though. My LCS has alot of decks which explode mid game, and the late game (10+ turns) very rarely happens, so I feel like an early start is better off than waiting for late game explosiveness.
Also, is their any particular reason you aren't running Balefire Dragon or Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger? Balefire seems like an auto-include in any Kresh deck and Vorinclex is, if anything, a mana doubler.
Yeah could be a meta call for sure. I'm still not even sure it's the right choice for me. I don't know that it really slows the deck down that much though. I have a bunch of other faster ramp that I will normally hit. My playgroup is pretty competitive (maybe 90% decks) but we don't use infinite combos so have to win "fairly". This allows for a lot of back and forth and players can team up on someone getting out of hand so the potential for games to go longer is always there.
Balefire Dragon - A good card with Kresh, but I don't think it's an auto-include. 7 mana is a lot for something that doesn't impact the board unless you are able to attack and hit the opponent. And even if you are able to get through unblocked it's still only hitting one opponent's guys for 6 (most likely) and can potentially not even be enough damage to kill their problematic creatures. I also rarely find creatures to be the primary problem I have to deal with. This is a creature deck so at the very least I should have creatures of my own that are able to block and enough spot removal to deal with the non-combat creatures that become problematic most of the time. Noncreature permanents tend to be the bigger problem and where I've focused more removal like Acidic Slime, Bane of Progress, and Terastodon. This deck is also very proactive instead of reactive. I'm much less concerned about what the opponent is doing as long as they aren't winning the game and more concerned about trying to explode into a sudden win myself. Don't get me wrong, it can be very very good if you are able to get through and kill a bunch of dudes, but these are the reasons I'm not using it.
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - More of the same really. I feel like if I have the 8 mana available to cast this guy I don't need to be trying to double it at that point and there's probably something better I can be casting to try to win the game. If you can get Vorinclex to stick he can be extremely oppressive, but he tends to make you public enemy number one. Without a more controlly deck it's unlikely he'll survive long against 3 opponents who are all trying to take him out. I have Razaketh, the Foulblooded, Craterhoof Behemoth, and Terastodon in the 8 mana slot already, so it's overfull as it is. Craterhoof and Terastodon both have immediate impact on the board and though Razaketh doesn't, he can get whatever card or cards I need to win or get out of a sticky situation as soon as he's cast.
I know right. I almost feel bad doing this, almost Pathbreaker essentially replaced Craterhoof Behemoth as the go to pump and trample creature as soon as I added him to the deck. With Malignus and a few other creatures on the board it's usually just game over and can come out of nowhere.
Well, my LCS has infinites in them, and I sometimes do fight them, hence why I feel the Awakening Zone and From Beyond are just a tad too slow, not by much though you are right. I don't expect to win every game. heck, I dont expect to win half the games I play, I just wanted to try to see if I needed to sacrifice some of the deck resilience for speed.
Also, out of curiosity, if you had an infinite budget, is their anything you would put in?
Honestly, you have me thinking about overhauling the deck right now. It's been devolving from a midrange attrition deck into something very explosive in an effort to just bypass a lot of the removal that can turn attrition games into luck of the draw (who has the first game-winning card once the table has run out of answers). I've removed a ton of token making cards already and just recently cut Doubling Season for that reason. There are still a lot of attrition based cards in the deck though. I think I could turn it into a ramping, mana-cheating, hasty monster that just obliterated people if I just cut all the attrition stuff (so yeah cards like Awakening Zone and From Beyond, among many others) and retooled it. My playgroup might hate it, but I usually only play it once or twice a weekend when we meet anyway.
This may be a project for me the next couple weekends.
The original duals for sure. There are probably some others that I'm not thinking of cause I just don't have the funds I used to have a section in the primer for cards I couldn't afford but wanted, but I've bought most of them now and took it out. It included Sneak Attack, Survival of the Fittest, Mana Crypt, and Sylvan Library. They were all reprinted at least once since then and I scooped them up at their lowest.