Congrats on an awesome concept. Always wanted to play a deck with Cathars' Crusade and Doubling Season together. I will definitely be paying tribute when I put it together.
Couple of card-specific questions:
- Have you tried Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? I don't currently own one because Standard prices, but I'll be investing in one as soon as he rotates. He seems to fit with everything you're already doing quite nicely.
- Archangel of Thune seemed like a great choice on paper as well, and I'm fortunate enough to own one, so it'll get tested for sure.
- Is Doubling Season good enough to run the functional reprint Primal Vigor?
- Any reason to run/not run Gavony Township or Oran-Rief, the Vastwood?
- EDIT: Have you ever felt the need to protect our fearless leader with something like Lightning Greaves? Would that be enough of a package to open up the idea of running a Stoneforge Mystic?
Hey OC! Glad you like the concept - This very quickly became one of my favorite decks to pilot as it can change style between games quite readily, and has so much resilience. I think you'll have a blast too.
- I haven't tried Gideon yet, as I haven't gotten one myself yet... (I think? I never keep them straight). I can see it doing some good stuff for the deck, but it's not one of my top priorities.
- I don't like Primal Vigor, since it's symmetrical. Which is perhaps a bit strange, since I don't shy from other symmetrical effects on account of "I can use it more than they can," but I still just don't like Vigor. I do run parallel lives though, which has great synergy with the deck.
- Gavony/Oran rief really comes down to preference on land slots. I have a large number of lands that I want to try, but I'm also really happy with what I have. With EonAon's endorsement below, I could be tempted to run Gavony. Like Eon, I'm not too thrilled on the once-only, green-only, etbt restrictions of Oran for this deck.
- Trostani hasn't been a huge enough target yet for me that I've felt the need to run greaves just for her, and nothing in the deck desperately needs haste, but Greaves is a fine choice, as is Asceticism if you run into concerns. Asceticism will help protect your populate targets as well, but greaves is cheaper, and haste does help some creatures. Haste can also get Trostani's populate online faster if need be. Good trade offs between the two options. I'll put greaves on the side, and see if I can wiggle it in to try at at some point.
- Stoneforge Mystic... may come down to personal preference. Blade of selves really comes down to flavorful tech, but then, some people will find that Skullclamp alone is enough to run a mystic for. This isn't my equipment deck, so I don't feel that mystic does as much for me here, but your own preferences could be different. If you try her out, or more equipment in the deck, I'd love to hear about it. If you do run her, Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of the Animist would be my first two adds, quite likely. I never have enough mana.
- Diligent farmhand is really a tech preference. Each of your other options could be better to blink/reanimate/populate, but I found myself wanting to lower down my curve a bit. Farmhand is like a Wayfarer's Bauble, except that I can reanimate it more easily in this deck.
- Endbringer has been great. I first started paying attention to colorless mana when I was evaluating if I wanted Mirrorpool in the deck (yes), and I discovered that I really have no issues landing on colorless mana. He helps solve some of the openings for card draw, though he can eat removal pretty quick at times. If you wanted to slot greaves into the deck, he'd be one to benefit from it. Of course, this will greatly depend on your manabase. If I ever change out some of my lands, I may need to reevaluate.
- Burgeoning/Exploration necessary? I mean, I guess not... but this deck is all about getting lots of lands out and doing landy things, so I think they add a lot of value. They also don't get worse later in the game - they get worse dependent on your availability to draw more cards, which hopefully should be happening quite well. Exploration also works with Crucible, which should never be taken lightly.
From playing a variant of the deck myself Burgeoning stays good especially when playing retreat to emeria, emeria shepherd,rampaging baloths, and emeria angel. Havent gotten a exploration yet and I can kinda see why it can be sub optimal sometimes if you already stick a burge.
Diligent is all about how heavy the CC in this deck already is in the 3+ costs. That and a chump fetch is never a bad thing.
I play gavony in mine I like it, absolutely loath oran-rief in a deck like this. Its not its own ETBT that annoys. It's that after a creature/token has landed you only get to do it ONCE, and once is never enough to be threatening enough on its own in commander. That and it forces timing issues to your plays so that you have to get everything out NOW at a certain total CC and THEN tap the bugger to get the value out of it. Where as gavony you can do on the end step of the player right before your turn so that any surviving tokens/creatures can grow.
Hey Eon, glad you like the deck! Do you have a list up anywhere to yours? I'd love to see the differences.
re: explo/burge: Redundancy is a good thing too, you can only have one burgeoning in the deck, so exploration gives another outlet for emptying extra lands. Explo also works with crucible, if you have that in. Looks like explorations are jumping up in price again, sadly, so here's hoping it gets reprinted in Cons 3 again (or, you know, fingers still crossed for crucible). Though I'm really happy Burgeoning got reprinted in Cons2, that was a great reprint.
You also may have persuaded me to go find a gavony and toss it in here... Shame on you! Now I need to find a land to cut...
The Primal Vigor thing is a bit odd, but I guess personal preference...I'll add it in and see if it's really that good. Seems like the kind of thing you'd want to max out on.
Endbringer just bothers me somehow, probably the same way that Primal Vigor bothers you. Off-hand, I'd try any of the classic options. Sylvan Library has a low CC, Mind's Eye lets you leave your mana up on opposing turns in case you'd rather activate something else, Staff of Nin kinda does the same thing but without the restrictive cost, etc.
One more thing I thought of that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere...Eternal Witness?
The Primal Vigor thing is a bit odd, but I guess personal preference...I'll add it in and see if it's really that good. Seems like the kind of thing you'd want to max out on.
Endbringer just bothers me somehow, probably the same way that Primal Vigor bothers you. Off-hand, I'd try any of the classic options. Sylvan Library has a low CC, Mind's Eye lets you leave your mana up on opposing turns in case you'd rather activate something else, Staff of Nin kinda does the same thing but without the restrictive cost, etc.
One more thing I thought of that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere...Eternal Witness?
I've run both Mind's Eye and Staff of Nin before, and both can be great. I tend to favor Mind's Eye, as staff doesn't draw nearly as much. The thing is though, that Endbringer can add a lot of utility, from the pinging to keep PW's and tokens down, to being a 'vigilant' 5/5, and I've used the 'can't attack or block' effect more than once. All of those are definitely aspects that I under-appreciated until I ran the card in a few decks. I like it now, but right job for right tool, etc. Mind's Eye would easily slot in place. (Sylvan Library is in the deck already).
Eternal Witness... hm. How odd. That's... quite an oversight by my part. Yeah, she hits a lot of key points I want to hit in this deck. That's just awkward now.
Eternal Witness... hm. How odd. That's... quite an oversight by my part. Yeah, she hits a lot of key points I want to hit in this deck. That's just awkward now.
Speaking of awkward...seems I also had a slight oversight about the Library.
Ehhh I don't really have a thread yet, also I have as yet figure/acquire what card draw is required to function more efficiently. Tireless tracker is gonna happen cause of sooo many synergies to the base landfall in this deck. I have just yet to acquire them. Also a thread implies a list that's not in flux week to week because of dithering or ooooh that looks neat. Example, primal vigor from above, didn't even know it existed till it was shown yesterday. I want doubling, but sorry I'm not paying 50 bucks for one card in a more casual deck like this. Vigor at 10 seems way more reasonable and I'm not playing many planeswalkers anyway. Id post a list here of what I'm currently noodling with if it was ok with you and the rules, but my variant is more green squiggly than landfogs.
I will say I use moonsilver spear since I cant locally get myriad blade very easy. Also I use some of the splicer family for golem tokens to populate on blade splicer, master splicer, and vital splicer. Sticking one onto a mimic vat is all kinds of value and fun. Debated Maul splicer for a bit but even though it drops the equivalent of 7 power onto the board anything at 7cc needs more of a oomph to be worth it even in commander.
I have been thinking of eerie interlude more lately as a wrath evader/ETB enabler since all versions of this deck have quite a lot of ETB effects. Probably not putting in ghostway since its a indiscriminate removal.
Unless you have them, Like OCpunisher above me I'm waiting on Gideon to rotate first so he drops down some since I need 2, and at $35 a pop see above doubling season. Speaking of planeswalkers have you ever tested Nissa, Voice of Zendikar in this? I mean it might mean putting back avenger of zendikar in this list for incidental pump but its literally tokens, token pump, and draw/lifegain for 3. Freely admit your likely to not get the ultimate off since decks like this want the 1st and 2nd abilities.
Ditto on acquiring Tireless Trackers, though every time I read all of the relevant abilities on that card, the price tag becomes more and more reasonable.
Nissa 3 has some positive attributes, but it feels a little too under-powered for this format. The Plant tokens aren't very relevant, and the -2 effect seems like win-more.
Its not the power output that's the problem as its the utility. There are sooo many more options for making tokens on the lower end of the stick that things like maul and summoner don't quite fit the bill for what you want at 7cc+. Id rather suntitan, Emeria Shepard, or Avacyn, Angel of Hope on the higher end of things, than just another bland token producer. Sure with trostani out I'm gaining 7 to 10 respectively but I could do that anyway overall.
Ehhh I don't really have a thread yet, also I have as yet figure/acquire what card draw is required to function more efficiently. Tireless tracker is gonna happen cause of sooo many synergies to the base landfall in this deck. I have just yet to acquire them. Also a thread implies a list that's not in flux week to week because of dithering or ooooh that looks neat. Example, primal vigor from above, didn't even know it existed till it was shown yesterday. I want doubling, but sorry I'm not paying 50 bucks for one card in a more casual deck like this. Vigor at 10 seems way more reasonable and I'm not playing many planeswalkers anyway. Id post a list here of what I'm currently noodling with if it was ok with you and the rules, but my variant is more green squiggly than landfogs.
I will say I use moonsilver spear since I cant locally get myriad blade very easy. Also I use some of the splicer family for golem tokens to populate on blade splicer, master splicer, and vital splicer. Sticking one onto a mimic vat is all kinds of value and fun. Debated Maul splicer for a bit but even though it drops the equivalent of 7 power onto the board anything at 7cc needs more of a oomph to be worth it even in commander.
I have been thinking of eerie interlude more lately as a wrath evader/ETB enabler since all versions of this deck have quite a lot of ETB effects. Probably not putting in ghostway since its a indiscriminate removal.
Unless you have them, Like OCpunisher above me I'm waiting on Gideon to rotate first so he drops down some since I need 2, and at $35 a pop see above doubling season. Speaking of planeswalkers have you ever tested Nissa, Voice of Zendikar in this? I mean it might mean putting back avenger of zendikar in this list for incidental pump but its literally tokens, token pump, and draw/lifegain for 3. Freely admit your likely to not get the ultimate off since decks like this want the 1st and 2nd abilities.
A lot of my thread updates come from the first few weeks. There's definitely a point of flux where I don't post a deck, simply because there would be too many changes, but even getting a basic list up after that can help organize your thoughts. Sometimes I'm bad about tracking changes too, but once I started posting my lists it got to be very helpful to have a place to review changes and past ideas.
And yes, price concerns are a valid reason to go for a different option, and in that situation I can definitely get behind Primal Vigor. I'm lucky that I've been playing for so long that I have a large collection to leverage, and don't have to acquire too many of the older cards.
If you can't get a Myriad Blade, I wouldn't worry too much about making a straight replacement for it. I built the deck before the blade came out, and while the blade is fun, and has led to huge (or oh so close to huge!) plays, it's not critical to the deck. That said, Moonsilver Spear actually looks like fun, and maybe I should open up some flex spots the next time I look at the deck and try new stuff... Since I have the list recorded here, it's always easy to revert too.
Eerie Interlude is a great card, and I was happy to see it spoiled. As you mentioned, ghostway really doesn't work with all the tokens this deck produces, so Eerie Interlude is a great pickup. I ended up slotting Rootborn Defences instead, since it can still protect tokens from mass destruction, but Eerie is a good choice, protecting key value from things like Hallowed Burial or Tragic Arrogance.
As far as Nissa goes, I'd rather run Nissa, Vital Force - While she doesn't make tokens, there are two modes to gain CA, and that +1 can be used to either make a mana (as a bad garruk), or keep up a decent blocker. That emblem also comes super fast, and provides huge power for this deck. (Vital Force is actually in the deck, per my changelog on page 3, but it seems my OP is a bit out of date, I'll have to fix that later).
Ditto on acquiring Tireless Trackers, though every time I read all of the relevant abilities on that card, the price tag becomes more and more reasonable.
Nissa 3 has some positive attributes, but it feels a little too under-powered for this format. The Plant tokens aren't very relevant, and the -2 effect seems like win-more.
Tireless Tracker is amazing. That is all I had to say on that...
I've seen other people run Trostani's Summoner, both in Trostani decks, and Roon decks. I've never been a huge fan of it for my own decks, but I do have to admit she can do good work. I just don't like how fragile she is.
Finally managed to play some games with this deck!
In a word, my meta is very GREEN. Everybody ramps, then ramps again, then ramps some more. Even the non-green decks play a ton of mana rocks just to keep up. The most common line in each game involved several Cultivate-effects into Avenger of Zendikar into Craterhoof Behemoth. At one point I was the only one of the four players without an Avenger on the table (although the blue guy copied someone else's).
I wished for three things throughout the night:
1. I wished for more recursion. There are a lot of ways to sacrifice your lands, but not a lot that actually net you mana, or get them back into play. The one time I managed to get Life from the Loam, the guy next to me had a very active Deathrite Shaman that I could not stop. Never saw the Crucible of Worlds.
2. I wished for more sweepers. I saw Elspeth, Sun's Champion once, and she did some fine work, but I needed a lot more of that.
3. I wished for some teeth! As much fun as it is to gain life and prevent damage, I was never able to be the aggressor. The few threats I drew (one Rampaging Baloths, one Wurmcoil Engine, one Mimic Vat) were easily handled.
I did not win any of the three games in which I played Trostani. One game ended with a very large team of Craterhoof-ed guys killing everyone else. Another game I finished runner-up to the Ezuri, Claw of Progress guy who soft-locked me with Mystic Snake, Crystal Shard, and a big pile of mana.
In short, the deck was a lot of fun to play and did some very good things. I'll definitely play it again next time.
EDIT: One more thing I noticed that was a bit uncomfortable was the number of lands that either had a pricey activation cost (Blighted Woodland, Dust Bowl, etc) and/or required you to sacrifice a land (Grove of the Guardian, Haunted Fengraf, etc). All of these clunky abilities seemed to really slow down the deck's development compared to others that were just putting lands into play early and often. Might be worth cutting back on some of these lands.
Well, I'm glad you had fun, even if the results weren't quite up there. Your meta sounds a bit different than mine, so here's a few thoughts, but take them with a grain of salt.
In terms of card choices:
I avoid Craterhoof/Avenger in my list due to power/fun considerations for myself, but if that's the ting of your meta, I would definitely put them back in.
I too have started wishing for Gaea's Cradle in the deck. It's not quite as explosively needed as in other decks, but I think it could do some solid work. I haven't played my big green list as much, so I may swap it over at long last. Finding a cut in the lands is always tough though.
I personally like Diligent Farmhand, simply because I can drop and ramp early, but he still has a body to be recurred. He can easily be replace though.
Blade of selves is a great value card, but I wouldn't really put it in the 'teeth' category, (though with the right set up, it definitely can do good work).
Cradle of Vitality is nice in that if you get multiple creatures ETBing, or are able to respond to make creatures, you can chain it up. The most fun I've had with it, is with Titania, Protector of Argoth out. I sacced a land to get a token, to gain life, but in response to the life gain, I sacced another land, etc, that way, when they finally resolved: I'd gain 3 life off the first, dump the counters onto the second, then gain 6 life, 12, 24, etc, and I gained well over 200 life in a turn, with the last one of them putting 40-50 +1/+1 counters on Trostani (for good measure). It's definitely a more 'fun' card that fits into a bit of a rube-golberg machine.
For recurring lands, the deck runs: Tilling Treefolk, Sun Titan, Titania, LftL, Crucible, Petrified field (+rings brighthearth), Mistveil Plains + search (KotR), + a few other ways to bring those creatures back, even at instant speed. I know there are a few other ways (new single target guy from INN), but if there are any major ones I missed, please let me know. I've considered the land from Inn that brings itself back from the yard for 3 as sac fodder, but mostly we need to sac forests/plains, so... .
Sweepers - My usual default spot is 3, and I flex up to 5 or 6, depending on the deck. Tragic Arrogance has been great, and I always love Rout (instant speed), and Austere Command (choices)!. Cataclysmic Gearhulk is an option that I haven't tried out here, since if you get a token of one, you can keep the gearhulk and Trost, and stall for a while, which seems... interesting. I tend to like it with more blink effects though. Terminus and Hallowed Burial are also great.
As to the games, I assume none of these were available, but here's a few thoughts for things that can address those situations in the future:
The game where everyone died to a Craterhoof - This (if available) is a great time to knight of reliquary in a Glacial Chasm
In the Mystic Snake lock, you should still have a bit more to do than other people (depending on how much the guy can snake), even though the deck is a bit light on single-target-removal. Your lands can still produce tokens, so if you have any board presence, you can also use Emeria/Seance to pull back creatures to return the lands. One thing you can do, is switch the basics to a snow package. This will allow you to run Mouth of Ronom to kill the snake in response to the Deadeye soulbond (or bounce/flicker/etc, depending). Winding Canyons can also be added to the list, in order to respond to the soulbond/ or respond to the snake, to cast out everything else. They'll have problems returning the snake if it's still on the stack, or un-bonded.
I just saw that it was Mystic Snake + Crystal shard. Were there more counters in hand?
EDIT: As far as activating the lands go, there's no priority on them really. I hardly ever use dustbowl unless something really needs to get hit (coffers), or once it's down to a 1v1 situation, where I'm locking them out. Blighted Woodland can sit and wait a while (it's +1 ramp), until an opportunity presents itself, though sometimes it's worth taking the early hit, for the future value. Likewise, Grove and Fengraf are an as-needed basis. I've actually been less enthused with Fengraf, especially as more creature recursion (angel) have come in.
As far as the missing cards, I really like the landscape, but none of those really scream to be a 'needed' component to the deck, and I don't think any were even in my initial build either. Part of it may just be the meta though, every meta is different, and you may just need a few tweaks to fit into your meta and playstyle better.
Yeah, I didn't see most of the land recursion. I think I saw Mistveil Plains after the Knight was already dead in that game. The rest of them just never came up.
The soft-lock situation was when it got down to just me and the Ezuri player, and I actually tried to stall him out for a number of turns. I was able to buy time by populating an 8/8 Grove token and pay the cumulative upkeep, but eventually that fell apart and he had a very big guy with Rogue's Passage.
I think most of my problems came down to missing a few key pieces and not being able to draw enough of the key pieces that were in the deck. Like I said, there were definitely enough positives to keep going.
Hey Bob, looking at the top post I noticed you don't play maze of ith. You don't because it doesn't produce mana? or it a price to availability issue? or it is and its not in the change log
Hmmm. It would certainly fit the theme of the deck...
I do dislike that it doesn't tap for mana though, although, usually you want it up anyways.
In a large part though, it's a bit of bias. There was a period of time (years ago) that my meta went through very polar phases. First came that every deck ran many wraths, to the point that no board could be built. This led into very Voltron oriented builds, to not commit too much at a time. This led into Maze of Ith being run in every single deck, alongside Vesuva (which always became a maze)(no Thespian yet, tahnkfully), and Kor Haven in white decks, and even some Prahv's or Mystifying mazes on the budget side. It wasn't unusal to see 5-7 maze variants in a game (ok, 7 was unusual, it was probably usually 3, but I know for a fact we hit 7 a few times, and even a 9 once).
This of course led into running 2-3 strip mine variants in every deck (a practice that holds true for me even to this day, (typically, Strip, Ghost, and Tectonic (I don't own wasteland)) and is part of the reason why Dust Bowl is in this deck, though today is due to other land-based threats, not maze anymore). Even in my decks that would token swarm, and didn't care about Mazes, I would run anti-maze tech, just to open that person up to the attacks, that way they wouldn't necessarily funnel towards me...
So, long story short, I'm a bit biased against Maze of Ith due to a large amount of hate being targeted at it, and thus, it having an inherently disproportional target on it.
That said, Glacial Chasm should be the equal, so I'll have to consider it.
I had actually considered that one. I ended up not trying it out due to the amount of grave hate that was running at the time, and then I forgot about it. It was one of the cards I was really excited for. If you run it, let me know how it goes.
Unfortunately, Rashmi was full of instant-speed board wipes (Aetherspouts, Aetherize, etc) that really set me back on development, and eventually ended up with a lethal Decimator of the Provinces attack.
The Chandra player and I spent most of the game attacking each other back and forth with smaller critters, until I managed to cast Aetherflux Reservoir. Meanwhile, the Phenax player did what he was supposed to do: hang around quietly and assemble annoying contraptions. At one point, he had milled me for about 30-ish cards, but managed to avoid hitting Life from the Loam.
I finally got up to 50+ life with the Reservoir and decided to use it on Chandra, since the Phenax player was at 16 and I had a pretty decent-sized hand. Unfortunately, he ripped Demonic Tutor into Damnation, then proceeded to stall out long enough to finish the job.
Going forward, I still felt like the manabase was really restrictive. There were too many times when I had to choose between playing the spells in my hand or leaving mana up to activate the costs of all my spell-lands. Before playing, I had cut a couple of the spell-lands (Dust Bowl, Haunted Fengraf) to try and alleviate this problem, but it was still evident.
One card that was surprisingly ineffective was Primal Vigor. It's possible that these games were just not the right place for it, but my hand was often over-crowded with clunky five-mana cards that I couldn't afford to dump.
All that aside, the deck was great fun to play and I look forward to playing it again!
Glad you're enjoying it. Aetherflux Reservoir has definitely been a great addition to the deck, and it's been working well for me too, though it comes with a large target on it (and thereby, on you). Retreat has been great for me too, and if you need more effects like that Seed the Land is often overlooked due to the 'symmetrical' nature of it - it's very easy to break the symmetry though, especially with Skullclamp and stuff. I ended up cutting Zendikar's Roil due to the 5 cost, and wanting to try out other cards in the slot, but I remember it being quite good as well, though the 5 slot was a bit crowded at the time.
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Anywho, I never did a review of Aether Revolt. So, some potential decent players:
Restoration Specialist - I have always been a huge fan of Salvage Scout in my Voltron-esque decks as a guy to pick up swords, and to return them later on. Restoration specialist doubles up on this and provides some enchantment recursion alongside it, giving you a nifty 2 for 1 at 3 total mana. To that end, he may be a nice piece of recursion to add to this deck, as we have many valuable enchantments, and a decent number of acceptable artifacts to return as well.
Aid from the Cowl - While we're not too heavy on the blink/bounce/sac themes, we are quite permanent heavy, and getting some free power permanents might be good, though odd timings, such as dropping planeswalkers in front of invading armies, could make for a few feel bad moments.
Heroic Intervention - This may well replace that 2w instant I'm running. Seeing as this upgrades to all permanents, and also gives hexproof, which blocks out a fair amount of exile removal, this is a really nice piece of protective tech.
Monstrous Onslaught - not my favorite removal spell, be we do have some powerful creatures at times, so this might have some potential.
Rishkar's Expertise - I love card draw, and this provides a lot of it. The second ability then adds crazy icing to the cake, allowing us to drop Mirari's Wake or Seedborn Muse for free.
Aethersphere Harvester - While vehicles in general may not find a home in this deck, this one did good work for me at the pre-release, and having a crew:1 cost means that this is a cheap include for some light flying defense, and sword of x/y defense, if needed.
Cogwork Assembler - nominal mention since it makes token copies, which we could then populate, if it was also a creature. Narrow application, but mentionable.
Heart of Kiran - This vehicle allows any planeswalker to decently protect itself, as well as having a decently low crew cost. If you decide to up the PW count, this might be an ok protection slot to add in.
I managed to play one very epic game with Trostani over the weekend...
After some back-and-forth, it was down to me and the Dragon-tribal Intet player.
- Both of our boards were clear after I had Routed on my turn.
- My yard was a non-factor after a Scavenging Ooze and a pile of mana went to town on me.
- My hand included Constant Mists, Zendikar's Roil and Doubling Season.
- My life total was in the 50s, his was in the 30s.
Then I drew into Gargoyle Castle, and things started to turn for me. I sac'd it immediately for 8 life, two bodies, and two cards off the Bond. Those cards ended up being Gaea's Cradle and Archangel of Thune. On my next turn, I cast the Archangel and populated the Gargoyle token with Trostani, drawing Green Sun's Zenith. From there, I was able to profitably block the incoming dragon army. On the next turn, Zenith found Seedborn Muse, and I started attacking. He scooped to the Rootborn Defenses.
- Some of the MVPs that game were Courser of Kruphix, Archangel of Thune, Zendikar's Roil, Gaea's Cradle, and of course Doubling Season. Constant Mists was also a constant problem for many opponents, and was helpful in getting an otherwise-awkward Riftstone Portal from the battlefield to the graveyard.
- Some of the LVPs were Budoka Gardener (had a hard time finding lands and the few I found I needed to play right away), Drifting Meadow and the other cycling lands (needed untapped lands and lots of 'em). One more dis-honorable mention was Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage. On paper, both of the activated abilities seem to mesh well with what the rest of the deck wants to do, and generating tokens to get the ball rolling is sometimes hard for this deck, but the cost to use each ability was a pretty big turn-off when I saw it on top of my deck with Courser.
Figured I'd toss a quick update about awesome pickups from Modern Masters!
Modern Masters - things to pick up if prices go down.
Fetch Lands - While I am currently only running the w/g 'legal by spirit' lands by choice, I have in other decks run off color fetchlands to great effect. Since we have 3 dual lands to pick up, off-color fetches remain highly valuable as they still pick up off colors when you need them to.
Cavern of Souls - while not holding a huge Tribal theme (I don't don't have the space to run it), some metas may like extra counterspell protection.
Path to Exile - A staple white removal spell, if you don't have one yet, this is a great opportunity.
Séance - these were never expensive to begin with, but making token copies of creatures is an excellent way to drastically increase the power of Trostani's populate ability.
Terminus - A generally useful wrath effect, that gets around a number of recursion options.
Craterhoof Behemoth - While I choose not to run it, Craterhoof is a potent game-ender, and a fantastic addition to this deck's strategy and synergy.
Scavenging Ooze - an excellent piece of graveyard hate, which can easily have a home in any Gx deck, it also has synergy with Archangel of Thune.
Thragtusk - Another card I don't run, but a potent token maker and life gainer, which fits the themes of the deck and could replace other similar slots.
Voice of Resurgeance - Similar to thragtusk, but bigger token to populate, and a cheaper creature to play and recur. Voice is an outstanding addition to this deck.
Back when Voice was legal, I sold mine off. I had always considered picking one up for Trostani, but didn't feel it was a crucial piece that I really needed to invest in it. Should prices drop, I may re-evaluate picking up a copy, as it is a natural fit here.
So, I've been putting this off quite a bit, but Amonkhet has quite a few goodies for us this go around, and I'm definitely trying to find some room for some cards.
Amonkhet
So, first off, Things that are likely to find a spot:
Protean Hulk - While not an Amonket Card, this powerhouse has been released from jail, and fun death triggers and sticky board presence is what this deck is about. I think the Hulk may find a good home here.
Annointed Procession - Parallel Lives is a good card, and this is another copy! With Doubling Season already in the deck (and better), I don't actually know if we need a 3rd copy, but I plan on trying it out. At worst, it may simple replace lives - I tend to have a lot more White mana available than green, due to my priorities when ramping. But first we try 3 copies!
Harvest Season - There is no hiding that I love ramp. While this cards may not be as explosive in this deck as some others I have, getting 2 lands is likely fair, and getting 3-5 lands is more than enough.
Sandwurm Convergence - I don't care. This is going in the deck. Yes, it costs a million. Yes, it makes zero flavor sense. I don't care. It pillowforts, and makes big tokens. It was made for me.
Shefet Monitor - Sadly no deserts are really good yet, but this draws a card and gets a ramp into play at instant speed, which isn't bad. Then we can Seance it.
Vizier of the Menagerie - Getting card draw in green means it's often tied to creatures. This guy isn't going to be as good as Oracle of Mul Daya (who can get that extra land drop immediately), nor draw as many cards, but he might be worth a test run to see how much he can draw.
SCATTERED GROVES - OH MY SWEET SWEET DUAL LAND THAT CYCLES AND PLAYS WELL WITH LIFE FROM THE LOAM! (thank you wizards!)
Things that are watched, but unlikely to make the cut:
Angel of Sanctions - I had such high hopes for embalm as a mechanic, but sadly, it seems that blue got all the ones I like. Angel is ok, but seems a worse version of the other angel, even with the self-tokenizing.
Honored Hydra - at least this embalm creature has some size and trample - but it's still just a beater.
Prowling Serpopard - Counterspells haven't been an issue yet, but if they become so, Cat-Snake will remain in view.
Watchful Naga - I'm keeping an eye on this one, just because it's green card draw, and there's often someone to attack in a multiplayer game, but this likely isn't the deck for it.
Shrines. None of the shrines directly appeal to this deck at this time, but all are kept in view, as they can all have useful abilities.
Grasping Dunes - removal on a land - something to keep in mind.
Cradle of the Accursed - The token is a bit small, and the sorcery limitation is obnoxious, but might work for some people.
Sunscorched Desert - This is just kinda bad, but I am amused at the thought of fetching this out instant speed to ping someone to death. Or sacrificing it and recurring it. Just to spite someone. Maybe I'll put one in, just incase someone gets an "unattackable" position of some sort.
A few changes I haven't gotten around to marking yet:
End Bringer -> Rishkar's Expertise - This is straight up card draw for card draw, and while End Bringer was a fun tool with lots of versatility, and a great target to token and populate, I won't miss needing to worry about as many colorless source applications.
Genesis Wave -> Anointed Procession - There's no doubt that Gen Wave is an insane value spell that can straight win a game, generating a massive board presence from nothing... but much like Craterhoof Behemoth, I simply have been finding it less fun of late. The games it wins, end up missing some pizzaz. I'm sure it'll find a home in a new deck soon enough, but for now I've decided this isn't the place for it. I still don't know if I need two Parallel Lives, but for now we're trying out straight up adding Anointed Procession to the lineup. With a few cuts to token makers though, we'll see how we balance out all of these effects.
Rampaging Baloths -> Protean Hulk - This is one of those cuts to token makers. Baloths is a strong card, working with both the lands, and making many tokens. However, these aren't the tokens I really want to populate, and often enough he doesn't do enough before eating removal or painting a large target on my head. That said, he still has the ability to completely steal games that I have no business of winning, so he'll stay on the sidelines and we may see him again. On the other hand, Protean hulk is replacing a fatty with a fatty, but with a bit of wrath protection to go with it. I don't think we have any combo in here for him - he's simply good value, which we'd love to token up. That said, it would not take a lot of effort to change the deck to embrace the combo, if that's your thing.
Diligent Farmhand -> Splendid Reclamation. Although the farmhand is a piece of ramp that I really like since he drops so early, for this deck he made the cut simply because he was there from consideration for another deck - he's nothing 'special' here. I worry a bit about cutting too much low end for the expensive things that have been coming out these last few sets, but if the deck slows down too much and we need to re-tweak back to cheaper stuff later, then we;ll deal with that when it happens. Splendid Reclamation has been wanting to come in for quite some time, as it can be quite a potent explosion of power. I worry a bit about making my graveyard too much a priority to exile, but if that happens, we'll adjust when it happens.
Invulnerability -> {c]Mouth // Feed[/c]. Invulnerability is such a catch all save of a card, it's hard to cut. The deck has a lot of protection already though, and I always want more card draw. Mouth // Feed gives us both a token, and some good mass draw power, so we'll try it out.
Forest -> Scattered Groves. This is pretty straight up. I worry about lowering my basic count too much, as it limits my ramp. I tend to clean out my basics from my deck fairly early these days, so I may need to re-examine the utility lands I end up using compared to those that I don't.
Sandworms Dune enchantment thing is also now in the deck. I need to figure out what I cut for it. Sandwurm Convergence
=====
Things that did not make the cut:
Vizier of the Menagerie - despite how much I like the concept of this card, the truth is that it will never be as good as Oracle of Mul Daya - nto that it's a bad thing... but it's just much harder to slot into a deck. I don't think I run enough creatures for it.
The deserts haven't made it in yet, but their value will be tested against whether enough of the new deserts end up being good enough. Likewise Shefet Monitor hasn't made it in yet, though he might be worth a slot just to tutor the new GY exile desert.
Some notable cards from HoD, as usual, useful new options will be listed, while options that are exceptional, unique, or otherwise notable will be bolded.
White:
Adorned Pouncer - Eternalized 4/4 doublestriker tokens to populate isn't bad, but it's also nothing special. Still, cats.
Crested Sunmare - LOOK AT MY HORSE, MY HORSE IS AMAZING. No but seriously, makes big tokens on lifegain? This is custom build for use with Trostani. Just wait until we turn him into a token, and start populating the Sunmare's themselves. All the horses. Also, since when are horses the size of Dragons?
Djeru, with Eyes Open - We run Planeswalkers, so if we need a tutor for them.... ? Put him in the pile with Thalia's lancers for finding Gaea's Cradle.
Hour of Revelation - Triple white might be pushing it, but we are quite adept at pulling out our colors. A 3 CMC wrath is nothing to sneeze at either.
Overwhelming Splendor - Not that I think this deck has the room to run this, but it's a brutal hit on whoever gets targeted by it. This may also make us want to run more spell-based removal main deck, if it becomes popular in the meta.
Green:
Hope Tender - I'm sure that somewhere there's a combo waiting for use with this guy. At least he's not an elf, so doesn't auto-infinite with Wirewood Lodge. Overall, there are other options I would choose over this guy first, but if you're looking for a quick mana spike with Nykthos/Cradle and Deserted Temple, he'll do in a pinch.
Hour of Promise - One more than Explosive Vegetation or Reap and Sow in order to get any two lands. This can be quite a potent jump in boardstate/mana production. In this deck, it may replace the Tempting Offer card (since people should never accept the tempt anyways), and can easily pull out our power lands.
Ramunap Excavator - This deck was built to use/abuse Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds. Having another massive graveyard land recursion engine option is exactly where this deck felt weak, and this guy makes it in as soon as I get one. I need a thousand copies already - while this guy is limited to the green identity commanders, I expect him to make an instant splash across EDH in general.
Uncage the menagerie - putting this on X=3 or x=4 could generate a lot of toolbox value in the right shell. You'd have to work around it a bit though.
Artifacts
God-Pharaoh's Gift - This is what I'm talking about! More tokens, more populate! While the gift has a steep cost, you at least get to trigger it and get value on the turn you play it. It does take another expensive slot though, which is quite worrisome. It seems every set pushes my CMC higher.
Mirage Mirror - Another amazing addition, which I think will see play in many decks, as it can be whatever you need most, when you need it. I don't know whether it would simply be another power land here, or a mirari's wake, or more ramp... but I'm sure it will be quite potent.
Lands
The deserts all have differing levels of utility, and running some of the lesser ones will be largely dependent on how many land slots you have open, as well
as how much synergy you need for other deserts.
Scavenger Grounds is by far the most stand-alone useful desert for edh, giving at the very least a one-shot graveyard full exile on a land slot. While the effect is symmetrical, so you don't want to use it willy nilly, having that emergency button is likely to be quite welcome. We do tend to use our graveyard a fair amount, so it's not likely to be used offensively, or often, but much like a wrath, the timing on the use is everything.
I am tempted to replace the cycling lands with the Desert versions solely for the Scavenger Grounds, and considering adding in the Shefet Monitor for it as well. As for the other Deserts:
Endless Sands does not look terribly great for this deck, Safe Haven was never something we wanted.
The two spell-deserts are fairly useless. Sorcery speed giant growth is boring, and the +1 to the team is likely best achieved through other means.
So it seems that if we wanted to bolster the Desert theme at all, it would be towards Amonkhet that we would look. Probably the -1/-1 counter land. Although, once again, if looking for colorless removal on a land, we'd be better served looking at coldsnap with Mouth of Ronom and a snow-basic set.
For horse protection and the ability to sac a creature and expand release the menagerie earlier than expected. I see menagerie as one hella card for this deck since a lot of the token happen to come from creatures. I've been personally debating harvest season in here, which leads into menagerie as well. The big question is how many lands can be plopped out on average vs would mana rocks help or hinder more?
For horse protection and the ability to sac a creature and expand release the menagerie earlier than expected. I see menagerie as one hella card for this deck since a lot of the token happen to come from creatures. I've been personally debating harvest season in here, which leads into menagerie as well. The big question is how many lands can be plopped out on average vs would mana rocks help or hinder more?
That is an excellent point about the horse. My opponents should never let it and Trostani stick around together. Mentally, I was comparing the Horse favorably to the Rampaging Baloths, but you're right that in practice, it's likely that the Baloths will simply be more consistent and self-contained. I'll still give it a try though, and at least give a trial to how it works, and then decide if it needs support - and if I'm willing to shoehorn in that support, when other options already exist.
Harvest Season looks like a card that fits right into all the themes I like. Great land ramp at a cheap cost, and I'm sure there's a way to use it profitably early as well. I opted not to put it into the deck yet though, because I need to figure out how to fix my basic land situation here - I'm already fairly reliably getting them ALL out, so more basic ramp might not be the answer I need right now. I need to reevaluate my basic/nonbasic ratios first.
Also, while in the late game I have a lot of tokens that will be tapped, the early game is fairly creature light right now, so I'm not sure how much Harvest Season will help. I'll keep an eye on it, and report back as I make observations.
Hey OC! Glad you like the concept - This very quickly became one of my favorite decks to pilot as it can change style between games quite readily, and has so much resilience. I think you'll have a blast too.
Hey Eon, glad you like the deck! Do you have a list up anywhere to yours? I'd love to see the differences.
re: explo/burge: Redundancy is a good thing too, you can only have one burgeoning in the deck, so exploration gives another outlet for emptying extra lands. Explo also works with crucible, if you have that in. Looks like explorations are jumping up in price again, sadly, so here's hoping it gets reprinted in Cons 3 again (or, you know, fingers still crossed for crucible). Though I'm really happy Burgeoning got reprinted in Cons2, that was a great reprint.
You also may have persuaded me to go find a gavony and toss it in here... Shame on you! Now I need to find a land to cut...
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Endbringer just bothers me somehow, probably the same way that Primal Vigor bothers you. Off-hand, I'd try any of the classic options. Sylvan Library has a low CC, Mind's Eye lets you leave your mana up on opposing turns in case you'd rather activate something else, Staff of Nin kinda does the same thing but without the restrictive cost, etc.
One more thing I thought of that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere...Eternal Witness?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I've run both Mind's Eye and Staff of Nin before, and both can be great. I tend to favor Mind's Eye, as staff doesn't draw nearly as much. The thing is though, that Endbringer can add a lot of utility, from the pinging to keep PW's and tokens down, to being a 'vigilant' 5/5, and I've used the 'can't attack or block' effect more than once. All of those are definitely aspects that I under-appreciated until I ran the card in a few decks. I like it now, but right job for right tool, etc. Mind's Eye would easily slot in place. (Sylvan Library is in the deck already).
Eternal Witness... hm. How odd. That's... quite an oversight by my part. Yeah, she hits a lot of key points I want to hit in this deck. That's just awkward now.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Speaking of awkward...seems I also had a slight oversight about the Library.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I will say I use moonsilver spear since I cant locally get myriad blade very easy. Also I use some of the splicer family for golem tokens to populate on blade splicer, master splicer, and vital splicer. Sticking one onto a mimic vat is all kinds of value and fun. Debated Maul splicer for a bit but even though it drops the equivalent of 7 power onto the board anything at 7cc needs more of a oomph to be worth it even in commander.
I have been thinking of eerie interlude more lately as a wrath evader/ETB enabler since all versions of this deck have quite a lot of ETB effects. Probably not putting in ghostway since its a indiscriminate removal.
Unless you have them, Like OCpunisher above me I'm waiting on Gideon to rotate first so he drops down some since I need 2, and at $35 a pop see above doubling season. Speaking of planeswalkers have you ever tested Nissa, Voice of Zendikar in this? I mean it might mean putting back avenger of zendikar in this list for incidental pump but its literally tokens, token pump, and draw/lifegain for 3. Freely admit your likely to not get the ultimate off since decks like this want the 1st and 2nd abilities.
Nissa 3 has some positive attributes, but it feels a little too under-powered for this format. The Plant tokens aren't very relevant, and the -2 effect seems like win-more.
Eon, if you debated Maul Splicer, maybe consider Trostani's Summoner?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
On nissa actually the plant tokens can become relevant considering if you play avenger of zendikar, retreat to emeria, cathars' crusade, collective blessing, and Gavony township alongside nissa...well you got options.
A lot of my thread updates come from the first few weeks. There's definitely a point of flux where I don't post a deck, simply because there would be too many changes, but even getting a basic list up after that can help organize your thoughts. Sometimes I'm bad about tracking changes too, but once I started posting my lists it got to be very helpful to have a place to review changes and past ideas.
And yes, price concerns are a valid reason to go for a different option, and in that situation I can definitely get behind Primal Vigor. I'm lucky that I've been playing for so long that I have a large collection to leverage, and don't have to acquire too many of the older cards.
If you can't get a Myriad Blade, I wouldn't worry too much about making a straight replacement for it. I built the deck before the blade came out, and while the blade is fun, and has led to huge (or oh so close to huge!) plays, it's not critical to the deck. That said, Moonsilver Spear actually looks like fun, and maybe I should open up some flex spots the next time I look at the deck and try new stuff... Since I have the list recorded here, it's always easy to revert too.
Eerie Interlude is a great card, and I was happy to see it spoiled. As you mentioned, ghostway really doesn't work with all the tokens this deck produces, so Eerie Interlude is a great pickup. I ended up slotting Rootborn Defences instead, since it can still protect tokens from mass destruction, but Eerie is a good choice, protecting key value from things like Hallowed Burial or Tragic Arrogance.
As far as Nissa goes, I'd rather run Nissa, Vital Force - While she doesn't make tokens, there are two modes to gain CA, and that +1 can be used to either make a mana (as a bad garruk), or keep up a decent blocker. That emblem also comes super fast, and provides huge power for this deck. (Vital Force is actually in the deck, per my changelog on page 3, but it seems my OP is a bit out of date, I'll have to fix that later).
Tireless Tracker is amazing. That is all I had to say on that...
I've seen other people run Trostani's Summoner, both in Trostani decks, and Roon decks. I've never been a huge fan of it for my own decks, but I do have to admit she can do good work. I just don't like how fragile she is.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I wished for three things throughout the night:
1. I wished for more recursion. There are a lot of ways to sacrifice your lands, but not a lot that actually net you mana, or get them back into play. The one time I managed to get Life from the Loam, the guy next to me had a very active Deathrite Shaman that I could not stop. Never saw the Crucible of Worlds.
2. I wished for more sweepers. I saw Elspeth, Sun's Champion once, and she did some fine work, but I needed a lot more of that.
3. I wished for some teeth! As much fun as it is to gain life and prevent damage, I was never able to be the aggressor. The few threats I drew (one Rampaging Baloths, one Wurmcoil Engine, one Mimic Vat) were easily handled.
I was not a fan of the following cards:
- Cradle of Vitality
- Diligent Farmhand
- Genesis Wave
- Constant Mists (only time I drew it was during the Mystic Snake soft-lock)
EDIT: One more thing I noticed that was a bit uncomfortable was the number of lands that either had a pricey activation cost (Blighted Woodland, Dust Bowl, etc) and/or required you to sacrifice a land (Grove of the Guardian, Haunted Fengraf, etc). All of these clunky abilities seemed to really slow down the deck's development compared to others that were just putting lands into play early and often. Might be worth cutting back on some of these lands.
EDIT:
- Angel of Serenity
- Blade of Selves
- Aetherflux Reservoir
- Nissa, Vital Force
- Myriad Landscape
Hopefully adding these in will make things work better next time.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
In terms of card choices:
As to the games, I assume none of these were available, but here's a few thoughts for things that can address those situations in the future:
I just saw that it was Mystic Snake + Crystal shard. Were there more counters in hand?
EDIT: As far as activating the lands go, there's no priority on them really. I hardly ever use dustbowl unless something really needs to get hit (coffers), or once it's down to a 1v1 situation, where I'm locking them out. Blighted Woodland can sit and wait a while (it's +1 ramp), until an opportunity presents itself, though sometimes it's worth taking the early hit, for the future value. Likewise, Grove and Fengraf are an as-needed basis. I've actually been less enthused with Fengraf, especially as more creature recursion (angel) have come in.
As far as the missing cards, I really like the landscape, but none of those really scream to be a 'needed' component to the deck, and I don't think any were even in my initial build either. Part of it may just be the meta though, every meta is different, and you may just need a few tweaks to fit into your meta and playstyle better.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
The soft-lock situation was when it got down to just me and the Ezuri player, and I actually tried to stall him out for a number of turns. I was able to buy time by populating an 8/8 Grove token and pay the cumulative upkeep, but eventually that fell apart and he had a very big guy with Rogue's Passage.
I think most of my problems came down to missing a few key pieces and not being able to draw enough of the key pieces that were in the deck. Like I said, there were definitely enough positives to keep going.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I do dislike that it doesn't tap for mana though, although, usually you want it up anyways.
In a large part though, it's a bit of bias. There was a period of time (years ago) that my meta went through very polar phases. First came that every deck ran many wraths, to the point that no board could be built. This led into very Voltron oriented builds, to not commit too much at a time. This led into Maze of Ith being run in every single deck, alongside Vesuva (which always became a maze)(no Thespian yet, tahnkfully), and Kor Haven in white decks, and even some Prahv's or Mystifying mazes on the budget side. It wasn't unusal to see 5-7 maze variants in a game (ok, 7 was unusual, it was probably usually 3, but I know for a fact we hit 7 a few times, and even a 9 once).
This of course led into running 2-3 strip mine variants in every deck (a practice that holds true for me even to this day, (typically, Strip, Ghost, and Tectonic (I don't own wasteland)) and is part of the reason why Dust Bowl is in this deck, though today is due to other land-based threats, not maze anymore). Even in my decks that would token swarm, and didn't care about Mazes, I would run anti-maze tech, just to open that person up to the attacks, that way they wouldn't necessarily funnel towards me...
So, long story short, I'm a bit biased against Maze of Ith due to a large amount of hate being targeted at it, and thus, it having an inherently disproportional target on it.
That said, Glacial Chasm should be the equal, so I'll have to consider it.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Played three more games with our fearless leader yesterday evening. Here's how it went:
Balthor was on the Relentless Rats plan, so there wasn't really much to talk about from his side.
For me, Courser of Kruphix was good at digging up lands and triggering life-gain, Retreat to Emeria was a consistent token-maker, and Archangel of Thune was pretty good at making them into real threats. Aura Shards was able to do a lot of work as well, killing off Memory Erosion, Smuggler's Copter, Leyline of the Void, and Altar of the Brood.
Unfortunately, Rashmi was full of instant-speed board wipes (Aetherspouts, Aetherize, etc) that really set me back on development, and eventually ended up with a lethal Decimator of the Provinces attack.
Opponents: Phenax, God of Deception and Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh.
The Chandra player and I spent most of the game attacking each other back and forth with smaller critters, until I managed to cast Aetherflux Reservoir. Meanwhile, the Phenax player did what he was supposed to do: hang around quietly and assemble annoying contraptions. At one point, he had milled me for about 30-ish cards, but managed to avoid hitting Life from the Loam.
I finally got up to 50+ life with the Reservoir and decided to use it on Chandra, since the Phenax player was at 16 and I had a pretty decent-sized hand. Unfortunately, he ripped Demonic Tutor into Damnation, then proceeded to stall out long enough to finish the job.
The MVPs of the day were probably Retreat to Emeria, Aura Shards, and Aetherflux Reservoir.
- Seedborn Muse and Skullclamp were also great, but they always are.
Going forward, I still felt like the manabase was really restrictive. There were too many times when I had to choose between playing the spells in my hand or leaving mana up to activate the costs of all my spell-lands. Before playing, I had cut a couple of the spell-lands (Dust Bowl, Haunted Fengraf) to try and alleviate this problem, but it was still evident.
Also, it would have been nice to have a few more token-makers that didn't cost mana. Again, Retreat to Emeria was excellent, and Zendikar's Roil would likely have been just as strong. I've considered Garruk Wildspeaker, and hopefully Gideon, Ally of Zendikar comes down in price soon.
One card that was surprisingly ineffective was Primal Vigor. It's possible that these games were just not the right place for it, but my hand was often over-crowded with clunky five-mana cards that I couldn't afford to dump.
All that aside, the deck was great fun to play and I look forward to playing it again!
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
===
Anywho, I never did a review of Aether Revolt. So, some potential decent players:
Restoration Specialist - I have always been a huge fan of Salvage Scout in my Voltron-esque decks as a guy to pick up swords, and to return them later on. Restoration specialist doubles up on this and provides some enchantment recursion alongside it, giving you a nifty 2 for 1 at 3 total mana. To that end, he may be a nice piece of recursion to add to this deck, as we have many valuable enchantments, and a decent number of acceptable artifacts to return as well.
Aid from the Cowl - While we're not too heavy on the blink/bounce/sac themes, we are quite permanent heavy, and getting some free power permanents might be good, though odd timings, such as dropping planeswalkers in front of invading armies, could make for a few feel bad moments.
Heroic Intervention - This may well replace that 2w instant I'm running. Seeing as this upgrades to all permanents, and also gives hexproof, which blocks out a fair amount of exile removal, this is a really nice piece of protective tech.
Monstrous Onslaught - not my favorite removal spell, be we do have some powerful creatures at times, so this might have some potential.
Rishkar's Expertise - I love card draw, and this provides a lot of it. The second ability then adds crazy icing to the cake, allowing us to drop Mirari's Wake or Seedborn Muse for free.
Renegade Rallier - a nominal mention, due to combo potential with Saffi, Eriksdotter.
Aethersphere Harvester - While vehicles in general may not find a home in this deck, this one did good work for me at the pre-release, and having a crew:1 cost means that this is a cheap include for some light flying defense, and sword of x/y defense, if needed.
Cogwork Assembler - nominal mention since it makes token copies, which we could then populate, if it was also a creature. Narrow application, but mentionable.
Heart of Kiran - This vehicle allows any planeswalker to decently protect itself, as well as having a decently low crew cost. If you decide to up the PW count, this might be an ok protection slot to add in.
Lifecrafter's Bestiary - have I mentioned that I like card draw?
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I managed to play one very epic game with Trostani over the weekend...
- Both of our boards were clear after I had Routed on my turn.
- My yard was a non-factor after a Scavenging Ooze and a pile of mana went to town on me.
- My hand included Constant Mists, Zendikar's Roil and Doubling Season.
- My life total was in the 50s, his was in the 30s.
Intet managed to assemble a board of Scourge of the Throne, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Sarkhan Vol, and a couple of other large bodies. I managed to stick Trostani, Doubling Season, Zendikar's Roil, and Elemental Bond, plus a half dozen or so tokens from the Roil to put my life in the 60s. The Scourge plus my Mists were giving his team psuedo-vigilance, and I knew I couldn't keep this pace up.
Then I drew into Gargoyle Castle, and things started to turn for me. I sac'd it immediately for 8 life, two bodies, and two cards off the Bond. Those cards ended up being Gaea's Cradle and Archangel of Thune. On my next turn, I cast the Archangel and populated the Gargoyle token with Trostani, drawing Green Sun's Zenith. From there, I was able to profitably block the incoming dragon army. On the next turn, Zenith found Seedborn Muse, and I started attacking. He scooped to the Rootborn Defenses.
- Some of the MVPs that game were Courser of Kruphix, Archangel of Thune, Zendikar's Roil, Gaea's Cradle, and of course Doubling Season. Constant Mists was also a constant problem for many opponents, and was helpful in getting an otherwise-awkward Riftstone Portal from the battlefield to the graveyard.
- Some of the LVPs were Budoka Gardener (had a hard time finding lands and the few I found I needed to play right away), Drifting Meadow and the other cycling lands (needed untapped lands and lots of 'em). One more dis-honorable mention was Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage. On paper, both of the activated abilities seem to mesh well with what the rest of the deck wants to do, and generating tokens to get the ball rolling is sometimes hard for this deck, but the cost to use each ability was a pretty big turn-off when I saw it on top of my deck with Courser.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
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Modern Masters - things to pick up if prices go down.
Back when Voice was legal, I sold mine off. I had always considered picking one up for Trostani, but didn't feel it was a crucial piece that I really needed to invest in it. Should prices drop, I may re-evaluate picking up a copy, as it is a natural fit here.
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Amonkhet
So, first off, Things that are likely to find a spot:
Protean Hulk - While not an Amonket Card, this powerhouse has been released from jail, and fun death triggers and sticky board presence is what this deck is about. I think the Hulk may find a good home here.
Annointed Procession - Parallel Lives is a good card, and this is another copy! With Doubling Season already in the deck (and better), I don't actually know if we need a 3rd copy, but I plan on trying it out. At worst, it may simple replace lives - I tend to have a lot more White mana available than green, due to my priorities when ramping. But first we try 3 copies!
Harvest Season - There is no hiding that I love ramp. While this cards may not be as explosive in this deck as some others I have, getting 2 lands is likely fair, and getting 3-5 lands is more than enough.
Sandwurm Convergence - I don't care. This is going in the deck. Yes, it costs a million. Yes, it makes zero flavor sense. I don't care. It pillowforts, and makes big tokens. It was made for me.
Shefet Monitor - Sadly no deserts are really good yet, but this draws a card and gets a ramp into play at instant speed, which isn't bad. Then we can Seance it.
Vizier of the Menagerie - Getting card draw in green means it's often tied to creatures. This guy isn't going to be as good as Oracle of Mul Daya (who can get that extra land drop immediately), nor draw as many cards, but he might be worth a test run to see how much he can draw.
Mouth // Feed - Green. Draw. Also, token.
SCATTERED GROVES - OH MY SWEET SWEET DUAL LAND THAT CYCLES AND PLAYS WELL WITH LIFE FROM THE LOAM! (thank you wizards!)
Things that are watched, but unlikely to make the cut:
Angel of Sanctions - I had such high hopes for embalm as a mechanic, but sadly, it seems that blue got all the ones I like. Angel is ok, but seems a worse version of the other angel, even with the self-tokenizing.
Honored Hydra - at least this embalm creature has some size and trample - but it's still just a beater.
Oashra Cultivator - I don't think I need another Diligent Farmhand/Sakura-tribe Elder effect, but early drops that turn into mana aren't bad.
Prowling Serpopard - Counterspells haven't been an issue yet, but if they become so, Cat-Snake will remain in view.
Watchful Naga - I'm keeping an eye on this one, just because it's green card draw, and there's often someone to attack in a multiplayer game, but this likely isn't the deck for it.
Shrines. None of the shrines directly appeal to this deck at this time, but all are kept in view, as they can all have useful abilities.
Grasping Dunes - removal on a land - something to keep in mind.
Cradle of the Accursed - The token is a bit small, and the sorcery limitation is obnoxious, but might work for some people.
Sunscorched Desert - This is just kinda bad, but I am amused at the thought of fetching this out instant speed to ping someone to death. Or sacrificing it and recurring it. Just to spite someone. Maybe I'll put one in, just incase someone gets an "unattackable" position of some sort.
Now I just need to figure out what to cut...
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End Bringer -> Rishkar's Expertise - This is straight up card draw for card draw, and while End Bringer was a fun tool with lots of versatility, and a great target to token and populate, I won't miss needing to worry about as many colorless source applications.
Genesis Wave -> Anointed Procession - There's no doubt that Gen Wave is an insane value spell that can straight win a game, generating a massive board presence from nothing... but much like Craterhoof Behemoth, I simply have been finding it less fun of late. The games it wins, end up missing some pizzaz. I'm sure it'll find a home in a new deck soon enough, but for now I've decided this isn't the place for it. I still don't know if I need two Parallel Lives, but for now we're trying out straight up adding Anointed Procession to the lineup. With a few cuts to token makers though, we'll see how we balance out all of these effects.
Rampaging Baloths -> Protean Hulk - This is one of those cuts to token makers. Baloths is a strong card, working with both the lands, and making many tokens. However, these aren't the tokens I really want to populate, and often enough he doesn't do enough before eating removal or painting a large target on my head. That said, he still has the ability to completely steal games that I have no business of winning, so he'll stay on the sidelines and we may see him again. On the other hand, Protean hulk is replacing a fatty with a fatty, but with a bit of wrath protection to go with it. I don't think we have any combo in here for him - he's simply good value, which we'd love to token up. That said, it would not take a lot of effort to change the deck to embrace the combo, if that's your thing.
Diligent Farmhand -> Splendid Reclamation. Although the farmhand is a piece of ramp that I really like since he drops so early, for this deck he made the cut simply because he was there from consideration for another deck - he's nothing 'special' here. I worry a bit about cutting too much low end for the expensive things that have been coming out these last few sets, but if the deck slows down too much and we need to re-tweak back to cheaper stuff later, then we;ll deal with that when it happens. Splendid Reclamation has been wanting to come in for quite some time, as it can be quite a potent explosion of power. I worry a bit about making my graveyard too much a priority to exile, but if that happens, we'll adjust when it happens.
Invulnerability -> {c]Mouth // Feed[/c]. Invulnerability is such a catch all save of a card, it's hard to cut. The deck has a lot of protection already though, and I always want more card draw. Mouth // Feed gives us both a token, and some good mass draw power, so we'll try it out.
Forest -> Scattered Groves. This is pretty straight up. I worry about lowering my basic count too much, as it limits my ramp. I tend to clean out my basics from my deck fairly early these days, so I may need to re-examine the utility lands I end up using compared to those that I don't.
Sandworms Dune enchantment thing is also now in the deck. I need to figure out what I cut for it. Sandwurm Convergence
=====
Things that did not make the cut:
Vizier of the Menagerie - despite how much I like the concept of this card, the truth is that it will never be as good as Oracle of Mul Daya - nto that it's a bad thing... but it's just much harder to slot into a deck. I don't think I run enough creatures for it.
The deserts haven't made it in yet, but their value will be tested against whether enough of the new deserts end up being good enough. Likewise Shefet Monitor hasn't made it in yet, though he might be worth a slot just to tutor the new GY exile desert.
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Some notable cards from HoD, as usual, useful new options will be listed, while options that are exceptional, unique, or otherwise notable will be bolded.
White:
Green:
Artifacts
Lands
The deserts all have differing levels of utility, and running some of the lesser ones will be largely dependent on how many land slots you have open, as well
as how much synergy you need for other deserts.
I am tempted to replace the cycling lands with the Desert versions solely for the Scavenger Grounds, and considering adding in the Shefet Monitor for it as well. As for the other Deserts:
So it seems that if we wanted to bolster the Desert theme at all, it would be towards Amonkhet that we would look. Probably the -1/-1 counter land. Although, once again, if looking for colorless removal on a land, we'd be better served looking at coldsnap with Mouth of Ronom and a snow-basic set.
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Soul Warden
Soul's Attendant
Essence Warden
Behemoth sledge
loxodon Warhammer
spirit loop
and
Lightning Greaves
darksteel plate
Ashnod's Altar
For horse protection and the ability to sac a creature and expand release the menagerie earlier than expected. I see menagerie as one hella card for this deck since a lot of the token happen to come from creatures. I've been personally debating harvest season in here, which leads into menagerie as well. The big question is how many lands can be plopped out on average vs would mana rocks help or hinder more?
That is an excellent point about the horse. My opponents should never let it and Trostani stick around together. Mentally, I was comparing the Horse favorably to the Rampaging Baloths, but you're right that in practice, it's likely that the Baloths will simply be more consistent and self-contained. I'll still give it a try though, and at least give a trial to how it works, and then decide if it needs support - and if I'm willing to shoehorn in that support, when other options already exist.
Harvest Season looks like a card that fits right into all the themes I like. Great land ramp at a cheap cost, and I'm sure there's a way to use it profitably early as well. I opted not to put it into the deck yet though, because I need to figure out how to fix my basic land situation here - I'm already fairly reliably getting them ALL out, so more basic ramp might not be the answer I need right now. I need to reevaluate my basic/nonbasic ratios first.
Also, while in the late game I have a lot of tokens that will be tapped, the early game is fairly creature light right now, so I'm not sure how much Harvest Season will help. I'll keep an eye on it, and report back as I make observations.
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