Okay, so we all can assume that seeing someone take out Heartless Hidetsugu in a round of multiplayer means that person sat down as the de facto archenemy. So I need the deck to survive as long as possible in order to make it worth the effort. Now I have some ideas floating around in my head but I would really like the feedback on the community on anything I missed. So far, my list is just a shell for what I generally want to do which is pretty simple:
Cast Heartless Hidetsugu as quickly as possible while giving him haste.
Char face with burn spells.
With that in mind, I chocked this list full of mana rocks, burn, and drawing. Here's the current list:
Thanks to many wonderful suggestions I made the deck a bit faster and less clunky (removed most of the X damage burn spells and the copy spells). I also added better ways to accelerate the combos (lots of draw, wheels, and land acceleration). Though this won't ever rival the draw capacity or mana ramp of U, B, or G decks, this deck has all the insanity that R offers.
What other things does this guy need to be as heartless as possible? I want games to end quickly without being that pillowfort guy who stalls to win with Test of Endurance or Felidar Sovereign (even though I am 'cause that's what my Oloro, Ageless Ascetic build does, lol) and to have a monoR deck that makes even monoU decks squeamish!
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If you plan to burn other players out of the game via Forking big Fireball-y things, Pyromancer's Goggles should probably go in. It's a mana rock that Forks for you without having to waste an extra card slot on said Fork effect. Additionally, if you add red spells that loot through cards like Tormenting Voice and Wild Guess, the Goggles make you draw double with no additional downside (key phrase: "as an additional cost" does not have to be paid for the copy). On the topic of ways to draw more cards that come from Origins, Alhammarret's Archive also doubles your draws. Pro-tip: Cycling draws you double with Archive.
If you want to blast people into next year via Fireballs, you're going to need lots of mana. I count 21 mana rocks and mana dorks, and that sounds great. However, more ways to jam out lands (plus a higher land count - 40 maybe?) will push your mana ahead even further. Terrain Generator takes the lands waiting in your hand, Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum and Sword of the Animist yank them from your library to the field, and Pilgrim's Eye, Mycosynth Wellspring and Journeyer's Kite all gain you card advantage by taking them from your deck to your hand. Additionally, since you seem to like Forking all of your spells, Mana Geyser might not be a bad idea as a lead-up to a huge Fireball in the mid-to-late game. Even if you Geyser for just 10, Forking it once or twice and feeding the mana from it to a Fireball should seriously cripple someone's life total if not remove them from the game entirely.
So this format is Commander, and people like to play creatures in Commander. Running Repercussion and pointing your Fireballs at problematic creatures will not only turn those creatures into smoking piles of ash, but your opponents' life totals too. I used to run a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight deck with a Repercussion to pull off things like that for max damage. Blasphemous Act is especially brutal with Repercussion.
Lastly, I'd recommend running other ways to finish people aside from big X damage sorceries. Spells that deal scaling damage but don't require a huge mana investment, like Acidic Soil and Price of Progress, still have a great potential to sting. Deathforge Shaman can have oodles of mana dumped into his Multikicker like a pseudo-Fireball and still leave you with a 4/3 body to attack and block. Parallectric Feedback punishes opponents for their own huge spells (just don't let anyone use this one against you). Sudden Impact effects mix well with your Group Huggy package. Spawn of Thraxes in the late game should annihilate somebody's life total. Incite Rebellion punishes token decks reeeeally hard. Flameblast Dragon is basically a Fireball on a 5/5, flying stick that can fire off as many times as it can attack. For some extra, super-special tech, Viashino Heretic is one of the best ways to remove artifacts.
Also, if you're going to go the damage doubler route, you probably want the one tutor Mono-R has: Gamble.
Also also, Hall of the Bandit Lord is a really nice haste enabler on a land. If you bother with more wheel effects and looting, As well, Anger is the very obvious thing to pitch into your graveyard for even more haste.
Thanks to all of the following players' suggestions, I will eventually post some tinkering and its findings!
@skorchdnite:
Wow! Very helpful and thorough!
Pyromancer's Goggles and Alhammarret's Archive needs to be automatic inclusions. Having them both in play means that a mere Tormenting Voice could fetch mere a whopping 8 cards all for the price of just discarding a card. Right on!
As for accumulating vast amounts of lands, you're dead on. I need more artifacts and artifact creatures that nab me lands because - let's face it - the artifact hate in multiplayer EDH is pretty strong. Most mana rocks don't really last that long.
I'm loving Repercussion and have absolutely no idea why I didn't think of it, lol. And you're right, the deck needs more burn for creatures and Repercussion is just icing on the cake. The good news is I have all of the cards already! Score!
Here's what I'm going to try to adopt thanks to your suggestions:
@Shokatshin: Outpost Siege is a great suggestion! Coercive Portal is good because the worst that can happen is a clean slate and that still benefits me somewhat and then even so, drawing a extra card is still good! Though I may steer a bit clear from it because monoR does have a bit of trouble recovering from a board wipe.
Hall of the Bandit Lord is a good suggestion to help give Hidetsugu haste when cast, however, if I want to use if for that extra 1 for a burn spell, I'd have to cough up 3 life to do so... Meaning for it to be ridiculously beneficial I'd have to use it with Chromatic Lantern out. Anger is one card I don't know why I didn't include in the first place, lol. Thanks for reminding me of its existence!
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Edited the OP to reflect my latest changes. Thanks to those who've helped so far! Now all I need is to test this further! Later on today I guess for I'm still at work, lol.
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I understand the need for Gamble but I don't want to add it simply for searching for Anger. With all the wheeling and potential drawing I can pretty much get what I'd want from the deck. I have so many cards for redundancy's sake and not a single or particular card for the win that I don't think I can open a slot for Gamble. Also, Gamble's pretty pricey for me for the moment. I would like to try to keep this as budget as possible (I know that Batterskull's in here but even though it's over $10, it's one of the very few cards that can give Heartless Hidetsugu lifelink so it's kinda needed).
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Glacial Crevasses only prevents combat damage, which Heartless Hidetsugu doesn't give with its ability. Glacial Chasm however is another story altogether. That's definitely something to look into. I already abuse Glacial Chasm comboed with Eon Hub in another deck but at least it can help in avoiding some early on Hidetsugu damage for a couple of life lost. I will just have to test it some more.
I saw your list and it seems interesting. I get what you're trying to accomplish but I find that it has a lot of cards that are a bit superfluous. I think the deck shouldn't be a one trick pony but it should try and do its thing as quickly as possible. Lots of people fear Hidetsugu so it's not unusual to become the archenemy once it's revealed.
I do appreciate you showing me your list. Maybe we can work on it together to try and make Hidetsugu as heartless as possible, lol. Oh, and Blood Moon is heartlessly evil, lol.
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The thing about Hall of the Bandit Lord is that it's also a way (not the best way, but a way) to get your life total into an odd count if you're going the damage doubler route; if you have an odd life total count, you'll be brought down to 1 Life instead of 0. On that note, I would actually also recommend Pristine Talisman as a rock IF you can find space for it.
I completely forgot that Coercive Portal's other effect was a boardwipe, I thought that was another Conspiracy card's schtick. Sorry about that-- I blame it on mainly playing Hidetsugu in 1v1 where I just never see the boardwipe effect. In Multiplayer I actually would hard de-recommend it.
Commune with Lava is essentially a temporary Damnable Pact and the cards can't be discarded away from you, so you might be able to find what you need and get the win through that.
One suggestion from 3drinks I always find myself going back to is to use Squee, Goblin Nabob with either Skullclamp or a looter effect (Daretti, Scrap Savant or even the one-off effects like Wild Guess) to create a draw engine. Technically Hammer of Bogardan can work with this too, but if you really are going to be the Archenemy of your table, then it's just too slow. If there were other threatening people present you could probably get away with using it, though.
Thanks for the suggestions! However, if you read Heartless Hidetsugu carefully, it doesn't really kill anyone outright. It subtracts life around rounded down. So it won't ever reach 0 on its own. If no one lost life due to anything else, it would go something like this: 40 to 20 to 10 to 5 to 3 to 2 to 1 to 1 to 1 ...
I was already using Pristine Talisman but cut it for being too inefficient.
Don't worry about Coercive Portal, in 1v1 it's awesome. Multiplayer it can be too chaotic.
Commune with Lava seems like a very excellent card to filter through the deck. I would have to test it. The good thing is that they're exiled until the end of my next turn - plenty of time to be able to cast them.
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With all the damage doublers I feel City of Brass and Mana Confluence helps out a lot getting you to an odd life-total.
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Right, I try not to run wheels that don't potentially give any card advantage, which means I'm typically only using Wheel of Fortune, Reforge the Soul, Memory Jar, and Chandra Ablaze. Of those four, Chandra is easily the worst one even if she is repeatable, and I notice you're not running her anyway so that works out. There's also Dragon Mage but he might be a tad overcosted. He does work if you can get him out and land a hit with him, though.
In any case, it looks like you're going the risky route with all the global draw artifacts, which is fine-- it just might be enough to keep people from killing you without being too grouphuggy. Plus, if you're the one who draws your combo, then it will have worked out. If that DOESN'T work out though, you may want to look into the aforementioned CAblaze, Jar, and Mage, even if two of those have a stupid-high CMC.
Speaking of that draw, it probably won't be an issue since you have enough of it, but if you find you still need consistency, Expedition Map can grab Hidetsugu's ticket to entry (Cavern of Souls), ramp (Ancient Tomb), protection for yourself (Glacial Chasm), or protection for all your burn spells (Boseiju, Who Shelters All). You're only running one of those so you probably don't need it now, but if you end up running all of them or even just three of them, EMap can fetch whichever one you need for any particular situation.
Winds of Change I typically treat as just a really bad Duress. It potentially disrupts hands for the worse on T1, but if you're unlucky it won't actually set anyone back, and you typically want more cards in your hand rather than a hand switch later on so it's not the best thing to have after T1 either. Probably what people call "cute" I guess; it IS funny to use on people who sculpt their hands during mulligans, though.
EDIT: Oh, EMap will also fetch Hall of the Bandit Lord for haste as well. Of course I just remembered that Boseiju and especially Cavern are expensive, and you're keeping this budget, so I suppose you could pass on this.
I actually play Dragon Mage in my Daretti, Scrap Savant deck to much success. I may consider adding it here, as well (I also run Memory Jar with Daretti as well). It seems expensive but it does well. In my Daretti deck I have haste enablers (which I have here, also) and obviously mana rocks aplenty (I have at least some here) so the dragon may be worth a lot of consideration. That version of Chandra is great because it also hurts players that like to keep a healthy hand.
I can see your point on Winds of Change being a "cute" Duress but I feel that it would just end up taking a slot.
Hall of the Bandit Lord... I'll just have to test the deck and see how much trouble I'll have with giving Hidetsugu haste. So far I have sufficient haste enablers and I only cast Hidetsugu when the time is right - whether to make the game end quick early game or if I'm able to have an amazing board state midgame (if I'm not the most menacing commander at the table). So at least he's pretty flexible as far as strategy is concerned. Obviously the best scenario is casting Hidetsugu and being able to grant him lifelink and haste in the same turn. So that's the main goal. Another great goal is having an odd-numbered life when you have damage doublers in play when all you can really do is just activate Hidetsugu's ability and pray for the best.
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Umbral Mantle and Sword of the Paruns might be both worth testing simply because they both let you untap your general for 3. If you can untap him twice in one turn that's 35 damage to each player, assuming your opponents are at 40 life.
Stranglehold can keep tutor heavy decks from finding an answer and landing it early can really slow down players running a lot of fetch lands and rampant growth effects.
Also Winding Canyons can do a decent impression of Hall of the bandit lord and flamekin village.
On the topic of Commune with Lava, it's a good card that, were I the one building this deck, I'd include. Once you learn how to play it (and other cards like Chandra, Pyromaster and Outpost Siege), it becomes almost-necessary to keep the deck from getting mired in top-deck mode. However, if your deck never finds itself in that position or if you're worried you'll waste good control cards, best keep it out. The reward tends to outweigh the risk, but still some decks shouldn't run it if they're jammed to the gills with spells that are all about timing.
Umbral Mantle and Sword of the Paruns might be both worth testing simply because they both let you untap your general for 3. If you can untap him twice in one turn that's 35 damage to each player, assuming your opponents are at 40 life.
Stranglehold can keep tutor heavy decks from finding an answer and landing it early can really slow down players running a lot of fetch lands and rampant growth effects.
Also Winding Canyons can do a decent impression of Hall of the bandit lord and flamekin village.
Ah! Both great equipments to include to the deck! Yes, untapping Heartless Hidetsugu is a must! I can do all the more damage by it! I will definitely find some space for them!
Strangehold is a good tool to include in the deck. It can hinder ramping decks and prevent decks running black to tutor for responses. That one has to be included, no doubt.
Winding Canyons is actually a good call. Casting Hidetsugu at the end of the turn before mine is almost paramount.
On the topic of Commune with Lava, it's a good card that, were I the one building this deck, I'd include. Once you learn how to play it (and other cards like Chandra, Pyromaster and Outpost Siege), it becomes almost-necessary to keep the deck from getting mired in top-deck mode. However, if your deck never finds itself in that position or if you're worried you'll waste good control cards, best keep it out. The reward tends to outweigh the risk, but still some decks shouldn't run it if they're jammed to the gills with spells that are all about timing.
Yes, I'm beginning to see the power of exiling cards yet being able to play them. The only real worry is exiling more than one land at once because R has no way of recovering from exile, unlike W or G. However, having a "second hand" in monoR is too to pass up. I play most of my spells during my own turn anyways. It's not easy to test certain cards when dealing with commander because you could easily play 3-4 games and never see the card you want to test, lol. But yeah, it's a good thing to consider.
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So far, I've been able to win by various methods so it's hard to determine what to cut. I'm still a little gray on how Heartless Hidetsugu works with lifegain and dealing double damage. Damage stopped going to the stack thanks to Mogg Fanatic. So, if it has lifelink and deals double damage (thus killing everyone) do I die as well before I can gain the necessary life to survive?
Either way I'm considering adding Stuffy Doll and Pariah's Shield because casting Blasphemous Act with Stuffy Doll in play is just epic. Either way, Stuffy Doll is a great blocker when things are tight and creatures don't have trample. It's also very political. Player #1 is too far ahead? Attack me with that 15/15 that doesn't have trample.
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[quote from="DarklingScribe »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/630729-heartless-hidetsugu-please-help-make-this-as?comment=16"]
So far, I've been able to win by various methods so it's hard to determine what to cut. I'm still a little gray on how Heartless Hidetsugu works with lifegain and dealing double damage. Damage stopped going to the stack thanks to Mogg Fanatic. So, if it has lifelink and deals double damage (thus killing everyone) do I die as well before I can gain the necessary life to survive?
Either way I'm considering adding Stuffy Doll and Pariah's Shield because casting Blasphemous Act with Stuffy Doll in play is just epic. Either way, Stuffy Doll is a great blocker when things are tight and creatures don't have trample. It's also very political. Player #1 is too far ahead? Attack me with that 15/15 that doesn't have trample.
When you deal lifelinking damage, you gain the life at the same time as when damage is done and, obviously, doing lifelinking damage to yourself is not too detrimental. Let's say you're in a four player game with everyone at 40, you've got Furnace of Rath and Hidetsugu's equipped with Loxodon Warhammer. Tap Hidetsugu, end the game with you at 160 and everyone else at 0. That said, great power requires great responsibility and people tend to aim for the guy who can take them out of the game the quickest.
Stuffy Doll's a great idea, especially with a lot of damage-based control. Keep in mind if you run Pariah's Shield that you won't be guaranteed the chance to equip it to Stuffy Doll as each one is only 1/99 and drawing both together is against the odds. Finding other good creatures that could bear the Shield effectively might be a good idea.
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Umbral Mantle and Sword of the Paruns might be both worth testing simply because they both let you untap your general for 3. If you can untap him twice in one turn that's 35 damage to each player, assuming your opponents are at 40 life.
Stranglehold can keep tutor heavy decks from finding an answer and landing it early can really slow down players running a lot of fetch lands and rampant growth effects.
Also Winding Canyons can do a decent impression of Hall of the bandit lord and flamekin village.
Ah! Both great equipments to include to the deck! Yes, untapping Heartless Hidetsugu is a must! I can do all the more damage by it! I will definitely find some space for them!
Strangehold is a good tool to include in the deck. It can hinder ramping decks and prevent decks running black to tutor for responses. That one has to be included, no doubt.
Winding Canyons is actually a good call. Casting Hidetsugu at the end of the turn before mine is almost paramount.
The biggest downside to these when compaired to the equipment already mentioned is that their untap abilites are single use, since part of their activation cost is tapping. I do think that the elixir, staff and puppet strings might be worth testing. The staff can untap itself and almost always has a relevant mode. The elixir allows you to tap your commander the turn you cast him, and the puppet strings can be used to tap down an opponent's creature, buying you time to get your commander onto the field.
Finally I feel Threaten/Act of Treason and all of the functional reprints of those cards over the years might be worth a look as well. Most of them allow you to target creatures you control and they all untap the creature they target. So they essentially can serve a dual purpose, you can either use them to temporarily steal your opponents creatures, or untap your Commander. If you want to be exceptionally heartless you could throw in some free sacrifice outlets (High Market, Altar of Dementia, Ashnod's Altar) then these spells can also put in a lot of good work as removal spells.
Yeah, there are certainly tons of cards for untapping Heartless Hidetsugu. Thousand-Year Elixir is already in the list and I would be a pretty crappy deck designer if I didn't include that one in this kind of list: it helps Hidetsugu tap the turn it enters play and allows for some untapping. Staff of Domination is definitely worth considering because it can also help as a mana sink mid to late game. I would have to find space for it, though, and the deck list is kind of tight at the moment.
The creatures stealing gimmick is kind of cool considering the fact that I don't have that many creatures, either. However, I don't think they're worth the slots taken up by other cards. I feel the deck has gotten to the point where it's pretty solid - not 100% - but getting quite there. I think that what it needs now is suggestions on what to cut/replace instead of merely what to add.
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As far as testing goes the deck has done beautifully. It has won about 80% of the games and the games haven't lasted longer than 30mins, lol. One of the most recent milestones of testing was a 3DH involving a brutal Xenagos, God of Revels, and Karador, Ghost Chieftain. Xenagos basically had the game won. My deck was running smooth enough but Xenagos was just too fast. As a last-ditch effort before I assumed I was gonna die, I cast Price of Progress at the end of the turn before mine eliminating Karador. During my turn I drew a land but with Temple Bell in play I used it and drew a Furnace of Rath. Xenagos was tapped out and had an even amount of life. I had an odd amount of life. That was an amazing game, lol. I later lost in another 3DH against Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Reaper King. Reaper King didn't really do much but Kamahl was ramping like there was no tomorrow, casting an X=22 Genesis Wave putting an Avenger of Zendikar, Craterhoof Behemoth, and many lands in the process. It was at that time that I contemplated adding Vedalken Orrery (or Magmaquake) to the deck in order to have burned everything to Kingdom Come.
All in all the deck has been pretty solid. My strategy being mulligan into lands/rocks or cards from the Hidetsugu suite and eventually drawing and burning through the deck until being able to get the damage doublers in play. The cards for drawing and acceleration have been paramount to the success of the deck. Interestingly, Elixir of Immortality has not only functioned to help recover important cards to the deck (and help against millers), but to also get me to an odd amount of life if I should ever find myself at an even amount of life when activating Heartless Hidetsugu with damage doublers in play. Having that in play helped me survive one game where I nuked everyone and almost nuked myself in the process.
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Yeah, there are certainly tons of cards for untapping Heartless Hidetsugu. Thousand-Year Elixir is already in the list and I would be a pretty crappy deck designer if I didn't include that one in this kind of list: it helps Hidetsugu tap the turn it enters play and allows for some untapping.
I must of missed that in your list as I was posting pretty late at night.
I'm glad to see Heartless is working out for you. I was going to mention that with the rumored upcoming commander rules change that would count commander ability damage as commander damage, your commander has the potential to knock out the whole table in one fell swoop including yourself, so your might want to prepare for that. However I can't find a link to this rules change rumor, so it remains just rumor, but still something to keep in mind.
Yeah, there are certainly tons of cards for untapping Heartless Hidetsugu. Thousand-Year Elixir is already in the list and I would be a pretty crappy deck designer if I didn't include that one in this kind of list: it helps Hidetsugu tap the turn it enters play and allows for some untapping.
I must of missed that in your list as I was posting pretty late at night.
I'm glad to see Heartless is working out for you. I was going to mention that with the rumored upcoming commander rules change that would count commander ability damage as commander damage, your commander has the potential to knock out the whole table in one fell swoop including yourself, so your might want to prepare for that. However I can't find a link to this rules change rumor, so it remains just rumor, but still something to keep in mind.
I like Fault Line over Magmaquake because it hits players instead of planeswalkers.
Cheers!
I don't mind using Magmaquake - at least in my build - but in another build it can most certainly be switched out for Fault Line. I only have one planeswalker so Magmaquake is awesome against Superfriends.dec.
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Cast Heartless Hidetsugu as quickly as possible while giving him haste.
Char face with burn spells.
With that in mind, I chocked this list full of mana rocks, burn, and drawing. Here's the current list:
5 Heartless Hidetsugu
Artifacts: 28
5 Alhammarret's Archive
1 Basilisk Collar
5 Batterskull
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Fellwar Stone
4 Font of Mythos
4 Gemstone Array
5 Gilded Lotus
3 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Howling Mine
2 Journeyer's Kite
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Loxodon Warhammer
0 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
2 Mind Stone
4 Otherworld Atlas
2 Prismatic Lens
5 Pyromancer's Goggles
1 Sol Ring
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Sword of the Animist
3 Temple Bell
3 Thousand-Year Elixir
4 Thran Dynamo
3 Umbral Mantle
4 Anger
3 Burnished Hart
5 Deathforge Shaman
6 Flameblast Dragon
4 Solemn Simulacrum
7 Spawn of Thraxes
4 Treasonous Ogre
3 Viashino Heretic
2 Walking Atlas
Enchantments: 5
5 Dictate of the Twin Gods
4 Furnace of Rath
5 Gratuitous Violence
4 Outpost Siege
3 Repercussion
Planeswalkers: 1
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
Spells: 16
2 Price of Progress
3 Acidic Soil
9 Blasphemous Act
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Commune with Lava
1 Faithless Looting
6 Incite Rebellion
2 Magmaquake
1 Magmatic Insight
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Red Sun's Zenith
5 Reforge the Soul
1 Rolling Earthquake
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Wheel of Fortune
2 Wild Guess
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Arcane Lighthouse
0 Dormant Volcano
0 Flamekin Village
0 Temple of the False God
0 Terrain Generator
0 Thawing Glaciers
0 Thespian's Stage
0 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
0 Winding Canyons
29 Mountain
5 Heartless Hidetsugu
Drawing / Acceleration: 14
1 Faithless Looting
1 Magmatic Insight
2 Commune with Lava
2 Howling Mine
2 Tormenting Voice
2 Wild Guess
3 Temple Bell
3 Wheel of Fortune
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
4 Font of Mythos
4 Otherworld Atlas
4 Outpost Siege
5 Alhammaret's Archive
5 Reforge the Soul
Mana Rocks / Ramp: 19
0 Mana Crypt
0 Terrain Generator
0 Thawing Glaciers
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Journeyer's Kite
2 Mind Stone
2 Prismatic Lens
2 Sword of the Animist
2 Walking Atlas
3 Burnished Hart
3 Ruby Medallion
4 Gemstone Array
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Treasonous Ogre
5 Gilded Lotus
5 Pyromancer's Goggles
0 Flamekin Village
0 Winding Canyons
1 Basilisk Collar
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Swiftfoot Boots
3 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Thousand-Year Elixir
3 Umbral Mantle
4 Anger
4 Furnace of Rath
5 Batterskull
5 Dictate of the Twin Gods
5 Gratuitous Violence
Burn: 13
0 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Rolling Earthquake
2 Magmaquake
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Price of Progress
3 Acidic Soil
3 Repercussion
5 Deathforge Shaman
6 Incite Rebellion
7 Spawn of Thraxes
9 Blasphemous Act
0 Arcane Lighthouse
0 Thespian's Stage
1 Elixir of Immortality
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Viashino Heretic
5 Fire Servant
Double Lands: 3
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Dormant Volcano
0 Temple of the False God
Basic Lands: 29
0 Mountain
Thanks to many wonderful suggestions I made the deck a bit faster and less clunky (removed most of the X damage burn spells and the copy spells). I also added better ways to accelerate the combos (lots of draw, wheels, and land acceleration). Though this won't ever rival the draw capacity or mana ramp of U, B, or G decks, this deck has all the insanity that R offers.
What other things does this guy need to be as heartless as possible? I want games to end quickly without being that pillowfort guy who stalls to win with Test of Endurance or Felidar Sovereign (even though I am 'cause that's what my Oloro, Ageless Ascetic build does, lol) and to have a monoR deck that makes even monoU decks squeamish!
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BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
If you want to blast people into next year via Fireballs, you're going to need lots of mana. I count 21 mana rocks and mana dorks, and that sounds great. However, more ways to jam out lands (plus a higher land count - 40 maybe?) will push your mana ahead even further. Terrain Generator takes the lands waiting in your hand, Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum and Sword of the Animist yank them from your library to the field, and Pilgrim's Eye, Mycosynth Wellspring and Journeyer's Kite all gain you card advantage by taking them from your deck to your hand. Additionally, since you seem to like Forking all of your spells, Mana Geyser might not be a bad idea as a lead-up to a huge Fireball in the mid-to-late game. Even if you Geyser for just 10, Forking it once or twice and feeding the mana from it to a Fireball should seriously cripple someone's life total if not remove them from the game entirely.
So this format is Commander, and people like to play creatures in Commander. Running Repercussion and pointing your Fireballs at problematic creatures will not only turn those creatures into smoking piles of ash, but your opponents' life totals too. I used to run a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight deck with a Repercussion to pull off things like that for max damage. Blasphemous Act is especially brutal with Repercussion.
Lastly, I'd recommend running other ways to finish people aside from big X damage sorceries. Spells that deal scaling damage but don't require a huge mana investment, like Acidic Soil and Price of Progress, still have a great potential to sting. Deathforge Shaman can have oodles of mana dumped into his Multikicker like a pseudo-Fireball and still leave you with a 4/3 body to attack and block. Parallectric Feedback punishes opponents for their own huge spells (just don't let anyone use this one against you). Sudden Impact effects mix well with your Group Huggy package. Spawn of Thraxes in the late game should annihilate somebody's life total. Incite Rebellion punishes token decks reeeeally hard. Flameblast Dragon is basically a Fireball on a 5/5, flying stick that can fire off as many times as it can attack. For some extra, super-special tech, Viashino Heretic is one of the best ways to remove artifacts.
Also, if you're going to go the damage doubler route, you probably want the one tutor Mono-R has: Gamble.
Also also, Hall of the Bandit Lord is a really nice haste enabler on a land. If you bother with more wheel effects and looting, As well, Anger is the very obvious thing to pitch into your graveyard for even more haste.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
@skorchdnite:
Wow! Very helpful and thorough!
Pyromancer's Goggles and Alhammarret's Archive needs to be automatic inclusions. Having them both in play means that a mere Tormenting Voice could fetch mere a whopping 8 cards all for the price of just discarding a card. Right on!
As for accumulating vast amounts of lands, you're dead on. I need more artifacts and artifact creatures that nab me lands because - let's face it - the artifact hate in multiplayer EDH is pretty strong. Most mana rocks don't really last that long.
I'm loving Repercussion and have absolutely no idea why I didn't think of it, lol. And you're right, the deck needs more burn for creatures and Repercussion is just icing on the cake. The good news is I have all of the cards already! Score!
Here's what I'm going to try to adopt thanks to your suggestions:
So thanks a lot!
@Shokatshin:
Outpost Siege is a great suggestion! Coercive Portal is good because the worst that can happen is a clean slate and that still benefits me somewhat and then even so, drawing a extra card is still good! Though I may steer a bit clear from it because monoR does have a bit of trouble recovering from a board wipe.
Hall of the Bandit Lord is a good suggestion to help give Hidetsugu haste when cast, however, if I want to use if for that extra 1 for a burn spell, I'd have to cough up 3 life to do so... Meaning for it to be ridiculously beneficial I'd have to use it with Chromatic Lantern out. Anger is one card I don't know why I didn't include in the first place, lol. Thanks for reminding me of its existence!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Also, nothing is more heartless than Blood Moon.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Glacial Crevasses only prevents combat damage, which Heartless Hidetsugu doesn't give with its ability. Glacial Chasm however is another story altogether. That's definitely something to look into. I already abuse Glacial Chasm comboed with Eon Hub in another deck but at least it can help in avoiding some early on Hidetsugu damage for a couple of life lost. I will just have to test it some more.
I saw your list and it seems interesting. I get what you're trying to accomplish but I find that it has a lot of cards that are a bit superfluous. I think the deck shouldn't be a one trick pony but it should try and do its thing as quickly as possible. Lots of people fear Hidetsugu so it's not unusual to become the archenemy once it's revealed.
I do appreciate you showing me your list. Maybe we can work on it together to try and make Hidetsugu as heartless as possible, lol. Oh, and Blood Moon is heartlessly evil, lol.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I completely forgot that Coercive Portal's other effect was a boardwipe, I thought that was another Conspiracy card's schtick. Sorry about that-- I blame it on mainly playing Hidetsugu in 1v1 where I just never see the boardwipe effect. In Multiplayer I actually would hard de-recommend it.
Commune with Lava is essentially a temporary Damnable Pact and the cards can't be discarded away from you, so you might be able to find what you need and get the win through that.
One suggestion from 3drinks I always find myself going back to is to use Squee, Goblin Nabob with either Skullclamp or a looter effect (Daretti, Scrap Savant or even the one-off effects like Wild Guess) to create a draw engine. Technically Hammer of Bogardan can work with this too, but if you really are going to be the Archenemy of your table, then it's just too slow. If there were other threatening people present you could probably get away with using it, though.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
I was already using Pristine Talisman but cut it for being too inefficient.
Don't worry about Coercive Portal, in 1v1 it's awesome. Multiplayer it can be too chaotic.
Commune with Lava seems like a very excellent card to filter through the deck. I would have to test it. The good thing is that they're exiled until the end of my next turn - plenty of time to be able to cast them.
I love the Squee, Goblin Nabob suggestion. It has a great many uses. As for adding cards for drawing to the deck I did my best and added some (added Daretti, Scrap Savant, Wild Guess, Faithless Looting, Magmatic Insight, Tormenting Voice, and tons of wheels). I am considering removing some of the wheels that replace the hand instead of giving me 7 cards because drawing one of those wheels with an empty hand is pretty useless. So I'm considering cutting Winds of Change, Molten Psyche, and Incendiary Command which gives me 3 spaces. With those 3 spaces I could test Squee, Goblin Nabob, Skullclamp, and Commune with Lava.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
In any case, it looks like you're going the risky route with all the global draw artifacts, which is fine-- it just might be enough to keep people from killing you without being too grouphuggy. Plus, if you're the one who draws your combo, then it will have worked out. If that DOESN'T work out though, you may want to look into the aforementioned CAblaze, Jar, and Mage, even if two of those have a stupid-high CMC.
Speaking of that draw, it probably won't be an issue since you have enough of it, but if you find you still need consistency, Expedition Map can grab Hidetsugu's ticket to entry (Cavern of Souls), ramp (Ancient Tomb), protection for yourself (Glacial Chasm), or protection for all your burn spells (Boseiju, Who Shelters All). You're only running one of those so you probably don't need it now, but if you end up running all of them or even just three of them, EMap can fetch whichever one you need for any particular situation.
Winds of Change I typically treat as just a really bad Duress. It potentially disrupts hands for the worse on T1, but if you're unlucky it won't actually set anyone back, and you typically want more cards in your hand rather than a hand switch later on so it's not the best thing to have after T1 either. Probably what people call "cute" I guess; it IS funny to use on people who sculpt their hands during mulligans, though.
EDIT: Oh, EMap will also fetch Hall of the Bandit Lord for haste as well. Of course I just remembered that Boseiju and especially Cavern are expensive, and you're keeping this budget, so I suppose you could pass on this.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
I should probably include Expedition Map as a tutor for those lands you mentioned. I actually own a Cavern of Souls, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Ancient Tomb, and Glacial Chasm so at least for me it's not a budget issue. But for someone who wants to build it it may become one. I'm the only control player in my meta so I don't really worry about running decks without protection against counterspells, but those who do have control players in their pod should definitely consider adding Cavern of Souls and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. I may include Cavern of Souls and Expedition Map could also help fetch Thawing Glaciers, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, or Thespian's Stage. So it's still a nice piece of tech to include.
I can see your point on Winds of Change being a "cute" Duress but I feel that it would just end up taking a slot.
Hall of the Bandit Lord... I'll just have to test the deck and see how much trouble I'll have with giving Hidetsugu haste. So far I have sufficient haste enablers and I only cast Hidetsugu when the time is right - whether to make the game end quick early game or if I'm able to have an amazing board state midgame (if I'm not the most menacing commander at the table). So at least he's pretty flexible as far as strategy is concerned. Obviously the best scenario is casting Hidetsugu and being able to grant him lifelink and haste in the same turn. So that's the main goal. Another great goal is having an odd-numbered life when you have damage doublers in play when all you can really do is just activate Hidetsugu's ability and pray for the best.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Stranglehold can keep tutor heavy decks from finding an answer and landing it early can really slow down players running a lot of fetch lands and rampant growth effects.
Also Winding Canyons can do a decent impression of Hall of the bandit lord and flamekin village.
Ah! Both great equipments to include to the deck! Yes, untapping Heartless Hidetsugu is a must! I can do all the more damage by it! I will definitely find some space for them!
Strangehold is a good tool to include in the deck. It can hinder ramping decks and prevent decks running black to tutor for responses. That one has to be included, no doubt.
Winding Canyons is actually a good call. Casting Hidetsugu at the end of the turn before mine is almost paramount.
Yes, I'm beginning to see the power of exiling cards yet being able to play them. The only real worry is exiling more than one land at once because R has no way of recovering from exile, unlike W or G. However, having a "second hand" in monoR is too to pass up. I play most of my spells during my own turn anyways. It's not easy to test certain cards when dealing with commander because you could easily play 3-4 games and never see the card you want to test, lol. But yeah, it's a good thing to consider.
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So far, I've been able to win by various methods so it's hard to determine what to cut. I'm still a little gray on how Heartless Hidetsugu works with lifegain and dealing double damage. Damage stopped going to the stack thanks to Mogg Fanatic. So, if it has lifelink and deals double damage (thus killing everyone) do I die as well before I can gain the necessary life to survive?
Either way I'm considering adding Stuffy Doll and Pariah's Shield because casting Blasphemous Act with Stuffy Doll in play is just epic. Either way, Stuffy Doll is a great blocker when things are tight and creatures don't have trample. It's also very political. Player #1 is too far ahead? Attack me with that 15/15 that doesn't have trample.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
When you deal lifelinking damage, you gain the life at the same time as when damage is done and, obviously, doing lifelinking damage to yourself is not too detrimental. Let's say you're in a four player game with everyone at 40, you've got Furnace of Rath and Hidetsugu's equipped with Loxodon Warhammer. Tap Hidetsugu, end the game with you at 160 and everyone else at 0. That said, great power requires great responsibility and people tend to aim for the guy who can take them out of the game the quickest.
Stuffy Doll's a great idea, especially with a lot of damage-based control. Keep in mind if you run Pariah's Shield that you won't be guaranteed the chance to equip it to Stuffy Doll as each one is only 1/99 and drawing both together is against the odds. Finding other good creatures that could bear the Shield effectively might be a good idea.
Thanks for clearing up the lifelink with Heartless Hidetsugu!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
After doing a search on the gatherer, I think I've found a number of good untapping options that may be worth playing in addition to or in the place of those two equipment I mentioned, here's a quick list:
Jandor's Saddlebags
Magewright's Stone
Puppet Strings
Staff of Domination
Thousand-Year Elixir
The biggest downside to these when compaired to the equipment already mentioned is that their untap abilites are single use, since part of their activation cost is tapping. I do think that the elixir, staff and puppet strings might be worth testing. The staff can untap itself and almost always has a relevant mode. The elixir allows you to tap your commander the turn you cast him, and the puppet strings can be used to tap down an opponent's creature, buying you time to get your commander onto the field.
Finally I feel Threaten/Act of Treason and all of the functional reprints of those cards over the years might be worth a look as well. Most of them allow you to target creatures you control and they all untap the creature they target. So they essentially can serve a dual purpose, you can either use them to temporarily steal your opponents creatures, or untap your Commander. If you want to be exceptionally heartless you could throw in some free sacrifice outlets (High Market, Altar of Dementia, Ashnod's Altar) then these spells can also put in a lot of good work as removal spells.
The creatures stealing gimmick is kind of cool considering the fact that I don't have that many creatures, either. However, I don't think they're worth the slots taken up by other cards. I feel the deck has gotten to the point where it's pretty solid - not 100% - but getting quite there. I think that what it needs now is suggestions on what to cut/replace instead of merely what to add.
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As far as testing goes the deck has done beautifully. It has won about 80% of the games and the games haven't lasted longer than 30mins, lol. One of the most recent milestones of testing was a 3DH involving a brutal Xenagos, God of Revels, and Karador, Ghost Chieftain. Xenagos basically had the game won. My deck was running smooth enough but Xenagos was just too fast. As a last-ditch effort before I assumed I was gonna die, I cast Price of Progress at the end of the turn before mine eliminating Karador. During my turn I drew a land but with Temple Bell in play I used it and drew a Furnace of Rath. Xenagos was tapped out and had an even amount of life. I had an odd amount of life. That was an amazing game, lol. I later lost in another 3DH against Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Reaper King. Reaper King didn't really do much but Kamahl was ramping like there was no tomorrow, casting an X=22 Genesis Wave putting an Avenger of Zendikar, Craterhoof Behemoth, and many lands in the process. It was at that time that I contemplated adding Vedalken Orrery (or Magmaquake) to the deck in order to have burned everything to Kingdom Come.
All in all the deck has been pretty solid. My strategy being mulligan into lands/rocks or cards from the Hidetsugu suite and eventually drawing and burning through the deck until being able to get the damage doublers in play. The cards for drawing and acceleration have been paramount to the success of the deck. Interestingly, Elixir of Immortality has not only functioned to help recover important cards to the deck (and help against millers), but to also get me to an odd amount of life if I should ever find myself at an even amount of life when activating Heartless Hidetsugu with damage doublers in play. Having that in play helped me survive one game where I nuked everyone and almost nuked myself in the process.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I must of missed that in your list as I was posting pretty late at night.
I'm glad to see Heartless is working out for you. I was going to mention that with the rumored upcoming commander rules change that would count commander ability damage as commander damage, your commander has the potential to knock out the whole table in one fell swoop including yourself, so your might want to prepare for that. However I can't find a link to this rules change rumor, so it remains just rumor, but still something to keep in mind.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
I think that has to be a rumor; it just can't be true. Do you know how broken that would make Nekusar, the Mindrazer, Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, Bosh, Iron Golem, Brion Stoutarm, Darigaaz, the Igniter, Heartless Hidetsugu, Kaervek the Merciless, Ashling the Pilgrim, Borborygmos Enraged, Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh, Ishi-Ishi, Akki Crackshot, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, Jeska, Warrior Adept, Kamahl, Pit Fighter, Keranos, God of Storms, Kumano, Master Yamabushi, Latulla, Keldon Overseer, Lyzolda, the Bloodwitch, Marath, Will of the Wild, Mogis, God of Slaughter, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Reveka, Wizard Savant, Ruric Thar, Unbowed, and Tymaret, the Murder King? If Nekusar is already broken, that rule would probably get him banned as commander and a lot of other commander as well. I've invested too much time, effort, and money into mu Nekusar build to then get him banned by another rules change for commander. I would be very disappointed if this rule turned out to be true. Ditto for Heartless Hidetsugu; I would become archenemy on the spot. The moment he gets lifelink it's GG.
I don't mind using Magmaquake - at least in my build - but in another build it can most certainly be switched out for Fault Line. I only have one planeswalker so Magmaquake is awesome against Superfriends.dec.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!