Introduction Note: this primer has undergone a complete revamp on 11/15/2016. There may be formatting or spelling errors or missing content. Please post or message me if you see anything that looks off (it may be leftover from the previous version).
Hi all! I'm jpw234 and I'll be presenting my multiplayer Captain Sisay decklist. I got into EDH about a year ago with a white pre-con but eventually it came time for me to build a deck for myself. After flipping through every legal commander on Gatherer, I settled on Sisay as the general that stood out to me the most. I love the G/W color combination, toolbox decks, grindy games and card advantage, so Sisay seemed to check all the boxes. Over the last year the deck has transformed from a pile of G/W legendaries with some decent synergies to a streamlined list that is capable of winning any game. Sisay is still my absolute favorite commander and playing this deck is a blast every time I shuffle up. I've enjoyed playing this deck so much that I want to share it with the world and get more people playing with this incredible commander. So let's jump in and learn about Captain Sisay!
First of all: why should you be playing Captain Sisay?
You should consider playing Captain Sisay if:
You love the Selesnya colors, but want an EDH deck with some punch. Sisay is one of the best, if not the best, commander available in these colors. Most top-tier decks take advantage of the power that Blue or Black bring to EDH, which is great! But G/W does have some very good tools for the format, and Sisay lets you tie them together in a very powerful way.
You enjoy decks with a "toolbox". You want to have an answer for everything. Nothing sucks more than your opponent casting something you just can't deal with! In most decks, you need to have the right card in hand; with Sisay, the tool you need is never more than a T away.
You like legendary stuff! Legendary cards are typically some of the coolest cards that Wizards prints, and we get to play with a bunch of fun ones (and see them consistently). What could be better than that?
You like stax. Or, if not stax, you at least enjoy attacking from a different angle. This isn't quite the deck that most people think of when they think "stax", but the core gameplan is to attack the mana of our opponents while making a bunch ourselves. This is a very different style of Magic than most people get playing Standard, Modern or Limited, but it's very rewarding and, by posing a different sort of challenge, can (in my experience) be quite invigorating for a playgroup.
You might play something else if:
You dislike tutoring. Whether you prefer more randomness, take too long to make decisions, or just don't like shuffling so much, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to not want to tutor all the time. This deck will be tutoring quite a bit, so it may not be right for you.
You prefer spellslinging. We're actually playing fewer creatures than you'd probably expect, but G/W are pretty much the worst colors overall for instants and sorceries. Permanents make up the backbone of the deck, with spells playing only a supporting role.
You like green for the massive ramp and huge creatures. We play some ramp and some fatties, but the deck overall plays lower to the ground with hatebears and other value effects. If you want to see some crazy P/Ts on your side of the board, you might want to check another green general.
You want to win quickly, whether with aggro or combo. This deck can theoretically go off very quickly (any deck with Survival of the Fittest can, really), but it's not set up to do so with any consistency. Attempts to close out games right away will often be rebuffed and give your opponents a chance to steal the game, so you've got to be patient to play this deck most efficiently.
Your metagame is not very high power level. Personally, I don't judge as far as how "cutthroat" people prefer their EDH games. But if you play this list at a table where you aren't pressured by other decks, you'll be tutoring up the same stuff every game and winning in pretty much the same way, confirming the worst stereotypes about Sisay. Against evenly-matched decks, that stereotype (that every game plays out the same) is not true at all - your games will play out very differently as you react to the table and try to keep the game under control. But if the deck outclasses its opponents, you won't be forced to react and you'll lock the game up quite quickly. You know your metagame better than anyone, so make the call on if this deck is right for you.
Alternate Commander Options
This deck doesn't particularly lend itself to easily replacing the general, but it is possible to keep some semblance of the skeleton together while playing a different GW legend. Gaddock Teeg gives you direct access to one of your more common hate pieces, but you lose on a lot of versatility. Selvala, Explorer Returned is another interesting GW general that generates card advantage and can be used to helm a stax deck. If you're more interested in pillowforting, Karametra, God of Harvests is a more creature-heavy list that retains the enchantment and defensives focuses of this deck (there's a good primer on these forums).
If you're more interested in the tutoring part of Sisay than the GW color combination, you can try out other toolbox-style generals like Sharuum the Hegemon (artifact toolbox), Momir Vig, Simic Visionary for creature toolbox/combo, Arcum Daggson for artifact combo/control or Karador, Ghost Chieftain for graveyard-based creature combo that keeps the GW.
With all that said, let's get to the list! Decklist
Proving Grounds
This decklist is not perfect or set in stone. I don't get to play EDH as much as I'd like, but when I do, I'm constantly trying out new cards and tweaking things. In this section I'll put the cards currently in the list that I'm least confident in (i.e., most likely to get cut), along with a quick reason as to why they appear here. I'll also try to keep updated a list of cards I'm interested in trying out. That list will probably be wildly speculative as I'll probably throw just about anything that even might be useful onto it. I just like to experiment. Anyway, if you're thinking about cards to cut or other options, check here.
Sunpetal Grove - tapped T1
Okina - nonbasic hate is a thing
Yavimaya Hollow - colors are important to make and this effect doesnt come up that often
Somberwald Sage - restriction and doesn't accelerate sisay
Static Orb - harder to break symmetry
Ground Seal - is RiP better?
Sylvan Safekeeper - saccing lands sucks
Karmic Guide/EWit - maybe one less recursion effect
Koz - necessary at top end?
Fierce Empath - recent addition
Boreal Druid
Rest in Peace
Chord of Calling
Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
Kozilek the Great Distortion
stuff to fill in Yisan chain
Bane of Progress
Quest for Renewal
Mox Diamond
Natural Order + some targets
Root Maze
Null Rod
Trinisphere
Sphere of Resistance/Thorn of Amethyst
Gyre Sage
Weathered Wayfarer
new thalia
Eldritch Evolution
Nature's Will
Splendid Reclamation
Recruiter of the Guard
Voyaging Satyr
Strategy
With the decklist out of the way, let's talk strategy. This is a deck about resource denial. We want to cut off our opponent's access to mana and cards and, if we're smart about it, we'll be able to slow down their gameplan without crippling ourselves. Most competitive EDH decks are proactive - they have a win condition in mind and a way to get there and they spend their time doing so as fast as possible. That ain't us. In most situations, we can be patient about getting out our actual win conditions, and put most of our focus on winning the resource war and countering our opponent's threats.
The first important resource in Magic is mana. We want to limit our opponent's ability to make mana and increase our own.
We use cards that prevent lands from untapping like Hokori, Dust Drinker so that our opponents have to ration their mana usage. They still might be able to resolve an important threat, but if we can deal with it, they'll be neutered in subsequent turns. We can break the symmetry of this effect by untapping lands that produce more than 1 mana like Gaea's Cradle and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. We can also manually untap our lands with the fun combo of Quirion Ranger and Azusa, Lost but Seeking.
We destroy lands with cards like Armageddon to cripple our opponent's mana production. We break the symmetry of this effect in several ways. We have mana-producing creatures like Elvish Mystic that aren't affected. We can rebuild a manabase faster than most decks by tutoring for legendary lands with our commander, or by using Crucible of Worlds. Finally, we can MLD with Titania, Protector of Argoth out to instantly generate a powerful army.
We tax spells with cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben to make it significantly more difficult to play multiple spells in a turn, and generally slow down our opponents. We largely break the symmetry of this effect by ignoring it where possible (playing many creatures), or by simply making much more mana than our opponents with our ramp cards.
The other important resource in Magic is cards. Since we aren't playing black, we can't really force our opponents to discard their cards, and since we aren't playing blue, we can't counter them outright. However, we can deny our opponents this resource by blunting the utility of their powerful cards with an array of "hate" effects. We have cards that cripple common strategies such as artifact-focused decks (Stony Silence, Kataki, War's Wage), graveyard-focused decks (Scavenging Ooze), spellslinger decks (Gaddock Teeg), etc. We also have a large array of tutors (including, importantly, our commander) that let us access these hate cards consistently, and several recursion and protection effects that let us keep them on the battlefield as much as possible.
Card Choices
With our overarching strategy in mind, we can break down each card in the deck.
Lands
They make the deck go. We avoid CIPT when possible and want to make our colors, but have room for some utility lands. Command Tower, Razorverge Thicket, Savannah, Sunpetal Grove, Temple Garden, Canopy Vista, Wooded Bastion - make our colors. Fetchlands - make our colors, also repeatable with Crucible of Worlds and fun with Titania, Protector of Argoth. Ancient Tomb - makes turn 3 Sisay on its own. Flagstones of Trokair, Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers - just a tutorable Forest and Plains for Sisay, if it's ever needed. Flagstones also helpful for MLD. Dryad Arbor - turns Green Sun's Zenith into a ramp spell. Strip Mine, Wasteland - targeted land destruction is necessary. Yavimaya Hollow - a tutorable regeneration shield for our legendary creatures. Not fantastic because of the mana cost, but useful occasionally. Gaea's Cradle - the best card in the deck, often your first Sisay target. Quickly recovers us from MLD, breaks symmetry of Orb effects, ramps out big threats very early. Random awesome synergy with Living Plane. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - isn't this just a worse Cradle? Well, we have some non-creature permanents that grant devotion, and Nykthos can make white. Generally this is worse, but Cradle is (deservedly) a magnet for Strip Mine effects, so another option is useful to have. Forest, Plains - my meta includes non-basic hate like Back to Basics and Wave of Vitriol, so having a good number of basics is very important. Forests are more important to play our dorks on turn 1.
Ramp Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault - auto-includes for pretty much every competitive deck. Colorless mana isn't as useful as colored but these cards provide a rate that's too good to pass up. Chrome Mox - while we aren't focused on speed, getting out Sisay a turn earlier can make the difference between having our hate piece in time or shuffling up against the faster decks in the meta. Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves - standard dorks. This deck plays so many mana dorks so that we can attack lands while still making mana. They also make Cradle better. Avacyn's Pilgrim - better than the above because they ensure we have both colors. Birds of Paradise - even better! Joraga Treespeaker - worse than the above on turn 2, but better every turn subsequently. Priest of Titania - worst-case is still decent, but often ends up making more than 1 mana. Note that Priest counts your opponents' Elves as well. If there isn't a single Elf in your meta, this might be worth cutting. Bloom Tender - not as good here as Derevi but still ends up making 2 mana, and white as well. Somberwald Sage - we want to be playing a creature every turn anyway, so you should be able to find use for this mana despite the restriction, and 3 for 3 is too good a rate to pass up. Shaman of Forgotten Ways - this doesn't cut it purely as a mana producer, but it doubles as a win-condition. Biorhythm is banned in EDH but we get to play it anyway!
Mana Denial Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Glowrider, Vryn Wingmare - this effect is so good we're playing it three times. Some of the best EDH decks want to have one big turn playing a bunch of spells, and it's basically impossible for them to go off through one of these cards. But many non-storm decks are also severely hindered by the extra mana cost. Winter Orb, Static Orb, Hokori, Dust Drinker - keeping our opponents from untapping their lands slows them down tremendously, and we can bypass the effect with dorks and Cradle. Static Orb is strictly different from the other two as it affects all permanents. This is a double edged sword - we hit our opponents' mana-producing artifacts and T creatures, but we also hit our own. Be careful with this one in particular as it's much more reliant on us having Cradle out. Armageddon, Ravages of War, Catastrophe - MLD is a misunderstood and oft-misplayed effect. No, we don't play Avacyn, but we don't need to for this to be good. Don't be afraid to fire these cards off early when they can give you an advantage. If you have lands in hand and a dork in play, you are in a much better position to rebuild than almost any other deck. Low-land decks outside green can be surprisingly reliant on the 2 lands in their opener and might have a hugely difficult time coming back from an early land wipe. Alternatively, there are other times where it's obvious MLD will be good for you. If you have Crucible or Titania in play, for example, or Cradle in hand (or Sisay untapped). In general, though, I find you should use these earlier rather than later. Waiting gives your opponents more time to play and also makes you vulnerable to a surprise piece of removal that negates the advantage you thought you had (e.g. Naturalize your Crucible with Armageddon on the stack). Catastrophe is largely worse than the others because of the mana cost, but I like having the third copy of the effect, and having one creature wipe in the deck gives us at least an out in some situations.
Breaking Stax Symmetry Crucible of Worlds - this is an absolutely fantastic card. It turns fetches into guaranteed land drops, rescues our Cradle from targeted LD, and lets us rebuild from our MLD effects. Azusa, Lost but Seeking - this is a surprisingly useful card that has seriously outperformed my expectations since I put it in the deck. It lets us accelerate our land-heavy hands early and late (after a Kozilek draw, for example), but it's most useful in conjunction with Quirion Ranger and an untap-preventer, letting us reset several lands each cycle around the table. It also combos well with Crucible. Oracle of Mul Daya - this card is good value generally and we get extra chances to hit lands off the top with a repeatable shuffle effect in the command zone. Seedborn Muse - breaks us out of all of our untap-preventers and also gives us 4 Sisay/Yisan activations per typical turn cycle.
Hate Pieces
Just be careful with most of these since they tend to hit some of our cards as well. They're here because against the right deck they're much more of a pain to our opponents than to us. Ground Seal - messes with graveyard combos and reanimator. Stony Silence - shuts down artifact combos, but also useful for artifact ramp and stuff like Top. Containment Priest - hugely versatile. Messes with reanimator, lots of infinite blink shenanigans (e.g. Deadeye), various cheat-into-play effects, etc. Gaddock Teeg - massively important. Big against combo, blocking cards like Time Spiral, Ad Nauseam, Tendrils of Agony. Big against control too, stuff like Blue Sun's Zenith and wraths. Incidentally effective against almost every deck and only affects 5 of our cards (3 MLD, Green Sun's Zenith, and Living Plane). Scavenging Ooze - repeatable, targeted GY hate that doesn't hurt us is very useful (also being a creature is nice for our tutors). Kataki, War's Wage - hits artifacts of all kinds while playing into our mana denial strategy. Hushwing Gryff - Torpor Orb with flash is awesome. ETB effects are critical for many decks while we play almost none, and none that are central to our gameplan (we have 3 recursion creatures and Aura Shards). Linvala, Keeper of Silence - another massively influential hatebear that doesn't even affect us! Hits mana dorks, lots of important commanders (Krenko, Prossh, Jarad, Yisan, etc.) and much more. Also is a lock with Living Plane. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - hates on token decks and also locks out a lot of combos that rely on small creatures staying in play (for example, Boonweaver often relies on Viscera Seer). Also is a lock with Living Plane.
Utility Quirion Ranger - the standard case for this card is to use it with Yisan and Cradle out. You untap Yisan several times to tutor multiple creatures during a turn cycle, and Cradle gives you the mana back. This synergy means that Ranger is very often your Yisan target on 1. Note that since its ability isn't affected by summoning sickness, you can use Yisan to tutor for Ranger and immediately start moving up the chain during that very turn cycle, presuming you have enough mana available. Ranger has several other synergies, though. Obviously, you get extra searches with Sisay. Azusa/Oracle mitigate the Ranger's drawback, as you can replay the lands you pickup. This is particularly powerful with an Orb effect in play, as you can pick up tapped lands and replay them untapped to get access to that mana on each turn. You can also pick up lands in preparation for an MLD effect, to dig additional cards with Scroll Rack, or to dodge your opponent's LD. Overall, this is a surprisingly versatile little creature. Just remember the rules: you can only pick up Forests, and you can only use the effect once per turn. Skullclamp - this deck has a good amount of tutoring power, but it lacks in raw card draw. Ultimately, we're limited in our ability to tutor for some of our most powerful cards (MLD, removal, Scroll Rack, etc), and raw card draw is still the best way of accessing them. Skullclamp is probably our best draw engine, as we play lots of dorks and dinky little creatures like Eternal Witness that we will happily cash in for two cards. Sylvan Safekeeper - this is one of the only protective effects we play. It makes the cut over stuff like Lightning Greaves because it's on a creature and it's repeatable, so we can access the effect more often. Obviously we want to use this sparingly as sacrificing lands isn't fun, but we can often afford to do so (because they're staying tapped under an Orb effect, or because we're making plenty of mana) and protecting a hatebear or Sisay is often well worth the price. Sylvan Library - simply one of the best filtering/draw effects in our colors, and we can take extra advantage of it with access to repeatable shuffle. Scroll Rack - as above, but typically even stronger. If we're digging for something like an MLD effect this is often our best way to do it, and again we can shuffle away our old hand with our commander. Eternal Witness - standard, efficient recursion is very good. Loyal Retainers - as above but for legendary creatures, but brings them to the battlefield. General value, but combos with Survival of the Fittest to cheaply reanimate a fatty, typically Elesh Norn as I don't currently run Iona. Karmic Guide - more efficient recursion. Sun Titan - EVEN MORE efficient recursion. Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - our standard wincon is Elesh Norn/Living Plane, but Living Plane is hard to get out of our deck. Kamahl is comparatively easy, and provides a less-efficient version of the same result. G: kill a land is obviously fantastic, and with stuff like Seedborn Muse and our overall ramp, it can be very effective. Less commonly used, but still nice, is the overrun ability, which can let us close out games with combat damage. For example, Kamahl works nicely with Living Plane himself (although typically if you get Plane out you're just winning with Norn). Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - sometimes you find yourself with a bunch of mana and no cards to spend it on. I know, it happens to all of us. In that case, Koz is your best tutor target, as a massive, threatening beater that also refills your hand. Also, you can use it to shuffle in your GY with Survival of the Fittest. That's probably not going to be relevant often, but it can reset a tutor target if you don't have a recursion effect, or if Ground Seal is in play, for example. Titania, Protector of Argoth - this is another card that has been much better than I expected. The biggest thing it can do is return Gaea's Cradle from your GY to play, after MLD, or maybe after it gets targeted by a Strip Mine. That can be a huge, unexpected jolt of mana that can win games on its own. Titania also gets nice random value with fetches, Wasteland/etc, and turns our MLD effects from something that helps win the game to something that immediately wins the game. Living Plane - this is our main win condition. It turns all lands into 1/1 creatures (that retain the ability to tap for mana). With Linvala, our opponent's lands can't activate the mana ability, so they're restricted to just attacking as 1/1s. With Elesh Norn, everybody else's lands die and ours become 3/3 beaters. Generally, you shouldn't play out Living Plane unless you're immediately setting up the lock, as your lands become vulnerable to creature removal, and your Plane to enchantment removal. However, there are some times that it can be useful. For example, playing Living Plane is usually mana-positive with Cradle in play. That extra injection of mana might be what you need to put together a lock right away. Or, maybe you can overrun with Kamahl and your lands to win on the spot.
Tutors and Removal
These cards are pretty self-explanatory.
Missed the Cut
Here, I'll put some other cards that aren't in the deck. Some I've tested and left out, some I haven't gotten my hands on yet. I'll sort them by how confident I am that they shouldn't be in the deck.
(under re-construction: 11/15/2016)
Changelog
Changes will go here as they come!
With the complete revamp on 11/15/2016, this section is getting a restart.
Conclusion
Thank you for reading this whole thread! I hope you like the deck and are inspired to check out Captain Sisay. If you have absolutely any questions or suggestions, no matter how small or silly they seem, please post! I love discussing the deck and testing new options. Thanks again!
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger Is an absolute Deck killer. Even if you play him and someone use Doom Blade on him it's still 2 mana that won't untap during his turn.
Vorinclex is definitely a powerful effect. However, my testing of him determined that he simply costs too much to be efficient. 8 mana is a heck of a lot and if you're playing something that expensive it needs to have an immediate effect. Look at the 8-drops I play - Archetype of Endurance, Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Myojin of Cleansing Fire. Each of these has an immediate effect on either my boardstate or everybody else's boardstate, while Vorinclex does nothing immediately other than eat removal (unless you didn't tap out to play him, but at his cost that's kind of a pipe dream). If I was really in the market for that effect, I would instead put in Hokori, Dust Drinker. Let me say that Hokori is very close to being in the list and may go in with additional testing, but the lock-out potential of Hokori is just so much higher because people are more willing to tap out for ramp and other set-up plays in early turns and Hokori massively punishes that.
Stonecloaker for Scavenging Ooze is effectively a straight swap. Stonecloaker's protection mode can be nice, but it is simply too inefficient in terms of graveyard hate and it is one of the weaker protection pieces. Moreover, it's untutorable with Wild Pair or Green Sun's Zenith. Ooze does this job better.
The 2 weakest pieces of creature removal are coming out for 2 very strong pieces of artifact and enchantment hate. Terminus is simply not consistent enough as it can't be tutored and affects me quite badly, while Lignify is probably just one too many of this effect after Darksteel Mutation and Prison Term (note that the indestructibility granted by Mutation is a good thing because an opponent doesn't get their commander back because of a wrath). I also noticed I was a bit too short on artifact and enchantment hate. Reclamation Sage goes in as a cheap creature that can be tutored for to get rid of something annoying, and Aura of Silence is a powerful tax and destruction effect that can be grabbed early against decks with heavy artifact ramp. Aura of Silence may also become Kataki, War's Wage.
The other three adds are simply additional ramp to speed up the deck. Mana Vault makes turn 2 Captain Sisay on its own, which is insane. Exploration is a tutorable way to speed us up over the course of the entire game, as is Oracle of Mul Daya. Oracle is particularly great in this deck because we shuffle a lot so it has a bunch of extra chances to hit. Out simply come what I identified as the worst remaining cards in the list. Chord of Calling is very mana-inefficient and is overly redundant with our other tutors. Defense of the Heart is a very powerful card, but in my metagame it almost never gets a chance to trigger without being destroyed, and we don't even instantly win when it does trigger. Swiftfoot Boots are simply too slow with the extra mana to equip - they don't allow for a turn 4 Sisay to activate instantly - and the ramp we replace them with allows for faster starts anyway.
These changes are currently being tested but feel quite likely to be implemented; I am playing some games this weekend and will update later on how they go.
This deck looks amazing so far! Will definitely be constantly looking at this thread! When I have more time I'll look over it even more carefully and give you some valid input!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I'm glad you like the post! I hope we can get a bunch of people checking out and contributing to the thread - I've always been of the opinion that more eyes on a deck can only be helpful. As a side note, as much as I want to hear opinions about the list, please also chip in with suggestions for the thread itself. This is my first major contribution to these forums - I tried to do my homework by checking out some other popular primers, but I don't know exactly what people want to see. If you want more tips/tricks, play stories, discussion of weaknesses of the deck, matchup specifics, etc. - let me know, and I'll do my best to include them.
An additional note - it's very sad to say, but Garruk, Caller of Beasts and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes are decidedly on the chopping block. It pains me to say it, particularly since Ajani is my absolute favorite planeswalker (except maybe Kiora). These cards have been solid for quite a while as part of my philosophy of "have permanents that generate repeated card advantage to enable control in multiplayer". The issue is three-fold:
1. The two cards cost too much mana to not have an immediate effect - compare to Mirari's Wake and Wild Pair which each have the potential to massively swing the game right when you untap,
2. The two cards have a surprisingly high potential to brick, given the lower creature density in the list, and
3. The killer: Nissa, Vastwood Seer was printed. Nissa has been absolutely insane while I've played with it over the past several weeks. It does what Ajani and Garruk are there to do - lets me consistently draw 2 cards a turn - while being better in basically every other aspect. It's tutorable by Sisay so I see it very reliably, it fetches a Forest to help me smooth out my land drops in the first several turns, it doesn't brick with its draw ability and lets me draw into my utility spells/enchantments, and it even has the potential to ramp with its +1. What's more, the fact that it's a 3-drop creature with 2 power makes it very easy to reanimate with e.g. Reveillark, Karmic Guide and Sun Titan, while the other walkers are basically gone when they die outside Eternal Witness.
In short, Nissa has made the other two 'walkers redundant, and I'm looking to replace them. Considering additional 1 or 2 drop ramp to speed up the deck or some additional utility pieces a la Kataki, War's Wage or Seedborn Muse. This also may be the cut that finally opens up room for Hokori, Dust Drinker. Let me know what you think here!
Hi,
I considered making the sisay primer a long time ago but I feared it would get a lot of traffic and I didn't want the obligation of replying to everybody. Plus one of the moderators loves to give me warnings for no apparent reason so providing feedback to people who ask questions would probably get me banned. Which wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose.
I made a bunch of changes to my sisay deck last month. Haven't played it much since so I'm still deciding on them. I took out some of the fatties and focused more on speed and resiliency. Sisay is a tutor general so I don't need many fatties to have a significant aggro presence.
Anyway, some suggestions:
- search for tomorrow
+ three visits (I think you mentioned this somewhere so I don't know why it isn't in the list).
- something you don't like very much
+ loyal retainers (Absolutely insane with sisay/survival of the fittest. This will EASILY be one of the best cards in the deck. You can even put the new ulamog into play with it)
- lignify or darksteel mutation (these are more of a 1vs1 card)
+ mana crypt
*Note: if you can't afford crypt/retainers/etc, remember this is a primer and it should be an optimized list. People don't search for the sisay primer thinking hey, I want to see a list of what some random person on earth can afford. No, they want to see an optimized list (and a budget list). /my opinion
I don't have wild pair or nissa in my deck. After seeing your enthusiasm about them I'm gonna have to test them out.
Edit: whoa whoa whoa...where's staff of domination? That's an insane combo card, as well as a decent card on its own, especially in a deck that makes as much mana as this one does.
Hi,
I considered making the sisay primer a long time ago but I feared it would get a lot of traffic and I didn't want the obligation of replying to everybody. Plus one of the moderators loves to give me warnings for no apparent reason so providing feedback to people who ask questions would probably get me banned. Which wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose.
I made a bunch of changes to my sisay deck last month. Haven't played it much since so I'm still deciding on them. I took out some of the fatties and focused more on speed and resiliency. Sisay is a tutor general so I don't need many fatties to have a significant aggro presence.
Anyway, some suggestions:
- search for tomorrow
+ three visits (I think you mentioned this somewhere so I don't know why it isn't in the list).
- something you don't like very much
+ loyal retainers (Absolutely insane with sisay/survival of the fittest. This will EASILY be one of the best cards in the deck. You can even put the new ulamog into play with it)
- lignify or darksteel mutation (these are more of a 1vs1 card)
+ mana crypt
*Note: if you can't afford crypt/retainers/etc, remember this is a primer and it should be an optimized list. People don't search for the sisay primer thinking hey, I want to see a list of what some random person on earth can afford. No, they want to see an optimized list (and a budget list). /my opinion
I don't have wild pair or nissa in my deck. After seeing your enthusiasm about them I'm gonna have to test them out.
Edit: whoa whoa whoa...where's staff of domination? That's an insane combo card, as well as a decent card on its own, especially in a deck that makes as much mana as this one does.
Thanks for the advice, rockondon. I like your list - the backbone seems pretty similar to mine, although we did seem to go pretty different directions in places. Three Visits and Mana Crypt should indeed go in, and I will perhaps make a note by the decklist that they are optimal/what to replace with them. As far as the new Ulamog, I can definitely see it going in, but I mostly test in paper so I won't know until I get my hands on one (definitely want it for my Kozilek EDH deck anyway). You aren't the first person to tell me I'm wrong for not running Loyal Retainers, so I suppose it's time for me to test it again. I didn't have Survival when I first tested it so maybe that's why I felt less enthusiastic.
I don't really see the appeal of Staff of Domination. I suppose untapping Sisay is nice but I would rather just run Thousand-Year Elixir? I don't have any creatures that can tap for 4 so I don't really see the combo potential, seems kinda do-nothing to me.
Anyway, I'm off to play some games with my group and will probably play tomorrow as well. I've got the updates I mentioned above in place so if they feel right I'll update the thread tomorrow to finalize the changes. Still looking for replacements for Ajani and Garruk (Retainers could be one).
As for Staff of Domination, I'm not really seeing it here. Living Plane only ever comes down when it's time for me to win the game, and I don't run Kamahl for animate shenanigans with Gaea's Cradle.
I'm surprised you see little 1Gfauna shaman as being too slow but various 6-11 cmc cards aren't.
Fauna shaman is another excellent way to use loyal retainers, by the way.
I just put a list together this past summer based on both yours and rockondon's lists and I've been having a great time with it! As for replacing Ajani and Garruk I don't know if these are equal cuts but I really like Dosan the Falling Leaf as another way to ensure you can combo without fear. I also run Sylvan Library as a slower CA engine that can be tutored for and has worked wonders for me with Nissa PW/Oracle. I do like the changes so far and I look forward to game reports etc.
I'm surprised you see little 1Gfauna shaman as being too slow but various 6-11 cmc cards aren't.
Fauna shaman is another excellent way to use loyal retainers, by the way.
Fauna Shaman is too slow in terms of "time to become useful" rather than mana cost. If she sticks around for a whole turn cycle, she's effectively an extra copy of Eladamri's Call. My meta has lots of spot removal and a pretty decent amount of wraths too, so that's simply not good enough. In contrast, cards like Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Archetype of Endurance have immediate and powerful effects right when they hit the table.
I just put a list together this past summer based on both yours and rockondon's lists and I've been having a great time with it! As for replacing Ajani and Garruk I don't know if these are equal cuts but I really like Dosan the Falling Leaf as another way to ensure you can combo without fear. I also run Sylvan Library as a slower CA engine that can be tutored for and has worked wonders for me with Nissa PW/Oracle. I do like the changes so far and I look forward to game reports etc.
Glad you liked it! I ran Dosan the Falling Leaf for a very long time, but very recently cut it as Dragonlord Dromoka does everything it does while being uncounterable and allowing you to cast defensive instants when necessary. The effect is important but not enough to have such a redundant (and worse) card in the list, in my mind. If I did want another effect to protect from counters, I'd add City of Solitude instead, to diversify access to the effect with my tutors and also vary the removal necessary to remove it. Sylvan Library is a card I really should have tested already, and hopefully I will get my hands on one soon to try it out. Sylvan, Loyal Retainers, Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Hokori, Dust Drinker are on high on my list as Ajani/Garruk replacements for the moment.
A quick update:
The new green blighted land, Blighted Woodland, is something I'll be testing from the new set. I'm also testing Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to replace the old Ulamog. Beastcaller Savant may make it in as a way to ramp immediately off creature tutors. Stasis Snare is very likely to make the cut, possibly over Prison Term, possibly over something else as additional removal - flash is very good. Outside this, I haven't seen anything else in Battle for Zendikar that we would play.
I'm still working on how to replace the two walkers - Loyal Retainers and Hokori, Dust Drinker are leading the pack right now, but I still want to do more testing on Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile in particular. Hopefully I'll resolve this by the weekend, but my friends and I are going to the midnight prerelease, so we may be a bit too tired for EDH
Believe it or not, I actually opened every single card I wanted from BFZ in my prerelease yesterday! That made this update easier and also motivated me to finally make a decision on the other two slots I have been hemming and hawwing over. As such I am about to edit the following changes into the list:
In detail:
Retainers and Hokori were my final choices to replace the two planeswalkers. Retainers speeds up the deck considerably and provides helpful reanimation, while Hokori helps proactively lock down the board which is very threatening when you can power it out quickly or protect it with something like Archetype of Endurance.
The Ulamogs are a straight swap. The new one is 1 cheaper and exiles 2 permanents which is significantly better than destroying 1. Annihilator is sad to lose, but it didn't happen often anyway. The graveyard shuffle is a negligible loss. Stasis Snare is very good removal that is tutorable with my enchantment suite. Flash is obviously stellar. Plea for Guidance is simply the worst card in the list at the moment, it's unfortunately clunky and telegraphs my future turns because it's difficult to tutor and lay the enchantments you grab at the same time with its high mana cost. Canopy Vista is something I forgot to mention before and is obviously a strict upgrade. This change is really Canopy Vista replacing a Forest and then a Forest replacing Sigarda, Host of Herons. Sigarda has gotten significantly worse for my meta since the Sheoldred deck graduated and left town and nobody is playing cards like Living Death. I have been thinking about going up to 38 lands for some time and this was the cut I made for it. We don't really worry about flooding out since Sisay keeps us drawing gas and the recent additions of Exploration and Oracle of Mul Daya incentivize the higher land count to keep us hitting all our land drops.
Lastly, I'm adding off-color fetches as I trade for them (I'm not going out of my way to purchase them since they're negligible upgrades and rather expensive). Got a Foothills recently, so in it goes over a Forest.
I'm about to edit these changes into the OP. Also, this thread has been bare lately. Anybody who's checking it out, please comment with any questions, comments or anything else on your mind, no matter how small! Always happy to discuss the list or help out anybody with Sisay.
absolutely love it. i don't play EDH that often but this is definitely something i want to do.
what are your thoughts for someone on a budget who can't afford idyllic tutor, loyal retainers and nissa right now. i eventually would get them but right now it's tough. i'm thinking sylvan library, bow of nylea for tutor/retainers.
absolutely love it. i don't play EDH that often but this is definitely something i want to do.
what are your thoughts for someone on a budget who can't afford idyllic tutor, loyal retainers and nissa right now. i eventually would get them but right now it's tough. i'm thinking sylvan library, bow of nylea for tutor/retainers.
Hey man, glad you like the thread! Fortunately, Idyllic Tutor and Loyal Retainers are only very good support cards rather than cards that are core to the gameplan, so replacing them shouldn't hurt the deck too much. Sylvan Library is definitely a great card to include (kinda surprised though, isn't it more expensive? Unless it's just that you already have a Library). As for Bow of Nylea, I'm not a huge fan as its primary function is done by Mistveil Plains. If its another recursion effect you want, I'd recommend Reya Dawnbringer, Genesis or maybe that new BFZ card, Emeria Shepherd (haven't tested the last one before, but it seems pretty powerful).
I'd definitely recommend that you grab Nissa as soon as you can, though, since it being tutorable means it's huge for the deck. If I were replacing it on a budget I'd decide if I wanted another CA engine or if I thought Reki would be good enough. For extra CA maybe Selvala, Explorer Returned (particularly if your metagame isn't too high power level, since then the drawback is less), otherwise I'd include a utility legend like Kataki or Thalia.
absolutely love it. i don't play EDH that often but this is definitely something i want to do.
what are your thoughts for someone on a budget who can't afford idyllic tutor, loyal retainers and nissa right now. i eventually would get them but right now it's tough. i'm thinking sylvan library, bow of nylea for tutor/retainers.
Hey man, glad you like the thread! Fortunately, Idyllic Tutor and Loyal Retainers are only very good support cards rather than cards that are core to the gameplan, so replacing them shouldn't hurt the deck too much. Sylvan Library is definitely a great card to include (kinda surprised though, isn't it more expensive? Unless it's just that you already have a Library). As for Bow of Nylea, I'm not a huge fan as its primary function is done by Mistveil Plains. If its another recursion effect you want, I'd recommend Reya Dawnbringer, Genesis or maybe that new BFZ card, Emeria Shepherd (haven't tested the last one before, but it seems pretty powerful).
I'd definitely recommend that you grab Nissa as soon as you can, though, since it being tutorable means it's huge for the deck. If I were replacing it on a budget I'd decide if I wanted another CA engine or if I thought Reki would be good enough. For extra CA maybe Selvala, Explorer Returned (particularly if your metagame isn't too high power level, since then the drawback is less), otherwise I'd include a utility legend like Kataki or Thalia.
thanks for your reply
i have most of this deck already lol i've been collecting for a while but stopped for the last year. wasn't making enough to buy singles. so yea, i already have a library. had one for a while lol i'm definitely tweaking it to more my style but still looking at stuff you put in yours cause i really like it. i definitely think i'm gonna get nissa as well.
i have most of this deck already lol i've been collecting for a while but stopped for the last year. wasn't making enough to buy singles. so yea, i already have a library. had one for a while lol i'm definitely tweaking it to more my style but still looking at stuff you put in yours cause i really like it. i definitely think i'm gonna get nissa as well.
Gotcha. I wish I had gotten into the game earlier to build up my collection cuz it's a pain buying stuff on a college student's budget but we all make do with what we've got, I suppose.
Anyway, I pulled an expedition Bloodstained Mire and a Gideon out of my fat pack earlier !_! planning on swapping the Mire in for a Cradle when I head down to the next GP so I can finally have it in paper! And, the Gideon turned into a Misty Rainforest, so that's going in the deck.
Day of Judgment has been pretty poor for me since Myojin of Cleansing Fire went back into the list. Sylvan Library is a card I'm interested in, another card I want to test out is Aven Mindcensor as a replacement. If anyone has thoughts on this or some other potential adds let me know.
Aven Mindcensor hasn't been great for me, so thinking I'm likely going to swap in Library, but I want to test it a bit more. Also feel like I want additional artifact/enchantment removal. A friend brought a Nahiri equipment deck recently which we underestimated, but was surprisingly powerful at times, and I felt it exposed a slight underpreparedness on our parts for artifacts. I'm probably gonna test Austere Command as a Day of Judgment replacement with more utility, and will also try out Return to Dust and Nature's Claim. I'm not exactly sure what the right balance of this stuff is given that I have Reclamation Sage, Acidic Slime and Krosan Grip already, but hopefully I'll figure it out pretty soon.
Command is a lot of extra flexibility over Day of Judgment which is mostly redundant with the tutorable Myojin of Cleansing Fire, and Kataki gives a tutorable annoyance to artifact decks which hopefully will prove to be enough to keep them in check. If I determine I need more removal, I'll go back and consider adding in stuff like Reclamation Sage, Return to Dust and Bane of Progress.
Other things I'm considering:
More GY hate - my meta includes a Sharuum player who heavily relies on his Salvaging Station engine and I would like some additional graveyard hate to mess with him. To my eternal regret we do not have a legendary piece of graveyard hate and sometimes Scooze just doesn't get there. And, I can't run Rest in Peace because I heavily rely on my own graveyard. Suggestions here are appreciated.
Boonweaver combo - adding the Boonweaver Giant and Pattern of Rebirth combo (as suggested by a friend) is effectively a way to accelerate out the Rev/Guide combo in this deck. Unfortunately since we don't have black we don't have easy sac outlets and would have to stretch a bit. There are options, though: Altar of Dementia, Blasting Station, Fanatical Devotion and Martyr's Cause. Would also likely require adding Fierce Empath and Fiend Hunter. This would require a significant overhaul of the deck, so I'd need to test for a bit to figure out what would come out and how to accommodate the combo. If it could work, it would be another powerful angle of attack to include. I welcome opinions here.
I'll update the OP just as soon as the Royals polish off the Blue Jays here
Personally prefer Glissa Sunseeker over Kataki, War's Wage for artifact hate, especially since if you're already tutoring for an artifact answer with Sisay, you have the extra mana for Glissa. Her flaw of course is that she needs haste to have an immediate effect, so I can see the appeal with Kataki.
I use Primal Command as a toolbox graveyard hate / mill save / creature summon, as I couldn't find a reasonable tutorable answer to graveyard combos. Rest in Peace would be much more efficient, but shuts down any graveyard combos you might run, bit of a double-edged sword.
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Introduction
Note: this primer has undergone a complete revamp on 11/15/2016. There may be formatting or spelling errors or missing content. Please post or message me if you see anything that looks off (it may be leftover from the previous version).
Hi all! I'm jpw234 and I'll be presenting my multiplayer Captain Sisay decklist. I got into EDH about a year ago with a white pre-con but eventually it came time for me to build a deck for myself. After flipping through every legal commander on Gatherer, I settled on Sisay as the general that stood out to me the most. I love the G/W color combination, toolbox decks, grindy games and card advantage, so Sisay seemed to check all the boxes. Over the last year the deck has transformed from a pile of G/W legendaries with some decent synergies to a streamlined list that is capable of winning any game. Sisay is still my absolute favorite commander and playing this deck is a blast every time I shuffle up. I've enjoyed playing this deck so much that I want to share it with the world and get more people playing with this incredible commander. So let's jump in and learn about Captain Sisay!
First of all: why should you be playing Captain Sisay?
You should consider playing Captain Sisay if:
You might play something else if:
Alternate Commander Options
This deck doesn't particularly lend itself to easily replacing the general, but it is possible to keep some semblance of the skeleton together while playing a different GW legend. Gaddock Teeg gives you direct access to one of your more common hate pieces, but you lose on a lot of versatility. Selvala, Explorer Returned is another interesting GW general that generates card advantage and can be used to helm a stax deck. If you're more interested in pillowforting, Karametra, God of Harvests is a more creature-heavy list that retains the enchantment and defensives focuses of this deck (there's a good primer on these forums).
If you're more interested in the tutoring part of Sisay than the GW color combination, you can try out other toolbox-style generals like Sharuum the Hegemon (artifact toolbox), Momir Vig, Simic Visionary for creature toolbox/combo, Arcum Daggson for artifact combo/control or Karador, Ghost Chieftain for graveyard-based creature combo that keeps the GW.
With all that said, let's get to the list!
Decklist
The list on: Deckstats
Lands (35)
8 Forest
4 Plains
7 Fetchlands
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Canopy Vista
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Command Tower
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Gaea's Cradle
Ramp (14)
0 Chrome Mox
0 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Priest of Titania
2 Bloom Tender
3 Somberwald Sage
3 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
2 Winter Orb
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Static Orb
3 Vryn Wingmare
3 Glowrider
4 Hokori, Dust Drinker
4 Armageddon
4 Ravages of War
6 Catastrophe
Breaking Stax Symmetry (4)
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
5 Seedborn Muse
Additional Hate (9)
2 Ground Seal
2 Stony Silence
2 Containment Priest
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Hushwing Gryff
4 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Utility (13)
1 Skullclamp
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Quirion Ranger
2 Sylvan Library
2 Scroll Rack
3 Eternal Witness
3 Loyal Retainers
4 Living Plane
5 Karmic Guide
5 Titania, Protector of Argoth
6 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
6 Sun Titan
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Crop Rotation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Eladamri's Call
2 Survival of the Fittest
3 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
3 Fierce Empath
3 Idyllic Tutor
Removal (7)
1 Nature's Claim
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
3 Aura of Silence
3 Aura Shards
3 Krosan Grip
3 Beast Within
Proving Grounds
This decklist is not perfect or set in stone. I don't get to play EDH as much as I'd like, but when I do, I'm constantly trying out new cards and tweaking things. In this section I'll put the cards currently in the list that I'm least confident in (i.e., most likely to get cut), along with a quick reason as to why they appear here. I'll also try to keep updated a list of cards I'm interested in trying out. That list will probably be wildly speculative as I'll probably throw just about anything that even might be useful onto it. I just like to experiment. Anyway, if you're thinking about cards to cut or other options, check here.
Sunpetal Grove - tapped T1
Okina - nonbasic hate is a thing
Yavimaya Hollow - colors are important to make and this effect doesnt come up that often
Somberwald Sage - restriction and doesn't accelerate sisay
Static Orb - harder to break symmetry
Ground Seal - is RiP better?
Sylvan Safekeeper - saccing lands sucks
Karmic Guide/EWit - maybe one less recursion effect
Koz - necessary at top end?
Fierce Empath - recent addition
Boreal Druid
Rest in Peace
Chord of Calling
Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
Kozilek the Great Distortion
stuff to fill in Yisan chain
Bane of Progress
Quest for Renewal
Mox Diamond
Natural Order + some targets
Root Maze
Null Rod
Trinisphere
Sphere of Resistance/Thorn of Amethyst
Gyre Sage
Weathered Wayfarer
new thalia
Eldritch Evolution
Nature's Will
Splendid Reclamation
Recruiter of the Guard
Voyaging Satyr
Strategy
With the decklist out of the way, let's talk strategy. This is a deck about resource denial. We want to cut off our opponent's access to mana and cards and, if we're smart about it, we'll be able to slow down their gameplan without crippling ourselves. Most competitive EDH decks are proactive - they have a win condition in mind and a way to get there and they spend their time doing so as fast as possible. That ain't us. In most situations, we can be patient about getting out our actual win conditions, and put most of our focus on winning the resource war and countering our opponent's threats.
The first important resource in Magic is mana. We want to limit our opponent's ability to make mana and increase our own.
The other important resource in Magic is cards. Since we aren't playing black, we can't really force our opponents to discard their cards, and since we aren't playing blue, we can't counter them outright. However, we can deny our opponents this resource by blunting the utility of their powerful cards with an array of "hate" effects. We have cards that cripple common strategies such as artifact-focused decks (Stony Silence, Kataki, War's Wage), graveyard-focused decks (Scavenging Ooze), spellslinger decks (Gaddock Teeg), etc. We also have a large array of tutors (including, importantly, our commander) that let us access these hate cards consistently, and several recursion and protection effects that let us keep them on the battlefield as much as possible.
Card Choices
With our overarching strategy in mind, we can break down each card in the deck.
Lands
They make the deck go. We avoid CIPT when possible and want to make our colors, but have room for some utility lands.
Command Tower, Razorverge Thicket, Savannah, Sunpetal Grove, Temple Garden, Canopy Vista, Wooded Bastion - make our colors.
Fetchlands - make our colors, also repeatable with Crucible of Worlds and fun with Titania, Protector of Argoth.
Ancient Tomb - makes turn 3 Sisay on its own.
Flagstones of Trokair, Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers - just a tutorable Forest and Plains for Sisay, if it's ever needed. Flagstones also helpful for MLD.
Dryad Arbor - turns Green Sun's Zenith into a ramp spell.
Strip Mine, Wasteland - targeted land destruction is necessary.
Yavimaya Hollow - a tutorable regeneration shield for our legendary creatures. Not fantastic because of the mana cost, but useful occasionally.
Gaea's Cradle - the best card in the deck, often your first Sisay target. Quickly recovers us from MLD, breaks symmetry of Orb effects, ramps out big threats very early. Random awesome synergy with Living Plane.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - isn't this just a worse Cradle? Well, we have some non-creature permanents that grant devotion, and Nykthos can make white. Generally this is worse, but Cradle is (deservedly) a magnet for Strip Mine effects, so another option is useful to have.
Forest, Plains - my meta includes non-basic hate like Back to Basics and Wave of Vitriol, so having a good number of basics is very important. Forests are more important to play our dorks on turn 1.
Ramp
Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault - auto-includes for pretty much every competitive deck. Colorless mana isn't as useful as colored but these cards provide a rate that's too good to pass up.
Chrome Mox - while we aren't focused on speed, getting out Sisay a turn earlier can make the difference between having our hate piece in time or shuffling up against the faster decks in the meta.
Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves - standard dorks. This deck plays so many mana dorks so that we can attack lands while still making mana. They also make Cradle better.
Avacyn's Pilgrim - better than the above because they ensure we have both colors.
Birds of Paradise - even better!
Joraga Treespeaker - worse than the above on turn 2, but better every turn subsequently.
Priest of Titania - worst-case is still decent, but often ends up making more than 1 mana. Note that Priest counts your opponents' Elves as well. If there isn't a single Elf in your meta, this might be worth cutting.
Bloom Tender - not as good here as Derevi but still ends up making 2 mana, and white as well.
Somberwald Sage - we want to be playing a creature every turn anyway, so you should be able to find use for this mana despite the restriction, and 3 for 3 is too good a rate to pass up.
Shaman of Forgotten Ways - this doesn't cut it purely as a mana producer, but it doubles as a win-condition. Biorhythm is banned in EDH but we get to play it anyway!
Mana Denial
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Glowrider, Vryn Wingmare - this effect is so good we're playing it three times. Some of the best EDH decks want to have one big turn playing a bunch of spells, and it's basically impossible for them to go off through one of these cards. But many non-storm decks are also severely hindered by the extra mana cost.
Winter Orb, Static Orb, Hokori, Dust Drinker - keeping our opponents from untapping their lands slows them down tremendously, and we can bypass the effect with dorks and Cradle. Static Orb is strictly different from the other two as it affects all permanents. This is a double edged sword - we hit our opponents' mana-producing artifacts and T creatures, but we also hit our own. Be careful with this one in particular as it's much more reliant on us having Cradle out.
Armageddon, Ravages of War, Catastrophe - MLD is a misunderstood and oft-misplayed effect. No, we don't play Avacyn, but we don't need to for this to be good. Don't be afraid to fire these cards off early when they can give you an advantage. If you have lands in hand and a dork in play, you are in a much better position to rebuild than almost any other deck. Low-land decks outside green can be surprisingly reliant on the 2 lands in their opener and might have a hugely difficult time coming back from an early land wipe. Alternatively, there are other times where it's obvious MLD will be good for you. If you have Crucible or Titania in play, for example, or Cradle in hand (or Sisay untapped). In general, though, I find you should use these earlier rather than later. Waiting gives your opponents more time to play and also makes you vulnerable to a surprise piece of removal that negates the advantage you thought you had (e.g. Naturalize your Crucible with Armageddon on the stack). Catastrophe is largely worse than the others because of the mana cost, but I like having the third copy of the effect, and having one creature wipe in the deck gives us at least an out in some situations.
Breaking Stax Symmetry
Crucible of Worlds - this is an absolutely fantastic card. It turns fetches into guaranteed land drops, rescues our Cradle from targeted LD, and lets us rebuild from our MLD effects.
Azusa, Lost but Seeking - this is a surprisingly useful card that has seriously outperformed my expectations since I put it in the deck. It lets us accelerate our land-heavy hands early and late (after a Kozilek draw, for example), but it's most useful in conjunction with Quirion Ranger and an untap-preventer, letting us reset several lands each cycle around the table. It also combos well with Crucible.
Oracle of Mul Daya - this card is good value generally and we get extra chances to hit lands off the top with a repeatable shuffle effect in the command zone.
Seedborn Muse - breaks us out of all of our untap-preventers and also gives us 4 Sisay/Yisan activations per typical turn cycle.
Hate Pieces
Just be careful with most of these since they tend to hit some of our cards as well. They're here because against the right deck they're much more of a pain to our opponents than to us.
Ground Seal - messes with graveyard combos and reanimator.
Stony Silence - shuts down artifact combos, but also useful for artifact ramp and stuff like Top.
Containment Priest - hugely versatile. Messes with reanimator, lots of infinite blink shenanigans (e.g. Deadeye), various cheat-into-play effects, etc.
Gaddock Teeg - massively important. Big against combo, blocking cards like Time Spiral, Ad Nauseam, Tendrils of Agony. Big against control too, stuff like Blue Sun's Zenith and wraths. Incidentally effective against almost every deck and only affects 5 of our cards (3 MLD, Green Sun's Zenith, and Living Plane).
Scavenging Ooze - repeatable, targeted GY hate that doesn't hurt us is very useful (also being a creature is nice for our tutors).
Kataki, War's Wage - hits artifacts of all kinds while playing into our mana denial strategy.
Hushwing Gryff - Torpor Orb with flash is awesome. ETB effects are critical for many decks while we play almost none, and none that are central to our gameplan (we have 3 recursion creatures and Aura Shards).
Linvala, Keeper of Silence - another massively influential hatebear that doesn't even affect us! Hits mana dorks, lots of important commanders (Krenko, Prossh, Jarad, Yisan, etc.) and much more. Also is a lock with Living Plane.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - hates on token decks and also locks out a lot of combos that rely on small creatures staying in play (for example, Boonweaver often relies on Viscera Seer). Also is a lock with Living Plane.
Utility
Quirion Ranger - the standard case for this card is to use it with Yisan and Cradle out. You untap Yisan several times to tutor multiple creatures during a turn cycle, and Cradle gives you the mana back. This synergy means that Ranger is very often your Yisan target on 1. Note that since its ability isn't affected by summoning sickness, you can use Yisan to tutor for Ranger and immediately start moving up the chain during that very turn cycle, presuming you have enough mana available. Ranger has several other synergies, though. Obviously, you get extra searches with Sisay. Azusa/Oracle mitigate the Ranger's drawback, as you can replay the lands you pickup. This is particularly powerful with an Orb effect in play, as you can pick up tapped lands and replay them untapped to get access to that mana on each turn. You can also pick up lands in preparation for an MLD effect, to dig additional cards with Scroll Rack, or to dodge your opponent's LD. Overall, this is a surprisingly versatile little creature. Just remember the rules: you can only pick up Forests, and you can only use the effect once per turn.
Skullclamp - this deck has a good amount of tutoring power, but it lacks in raw card draw. Ultimately, we're limited in our ability to tutor for some of our most powerful cards (MLD, removal, Scroll Rack, etc), and raw card draw is still the best way of accessing them. Skullclamp is probably our best draw engine, as we play lots of dorks and dinky little creatures like Eternal Witness that we will happily cash in for two cards.
Sylvan Safekeeper - this is one of the only protective effects we play. It makes the cut over stuff like Lightning Greaves because it's on a creature and it's repeatable, so we can access the effect more often. Obviously we want to use this sparingly as sacrificing lands isn't fun, but we can often afford to do so (because they're staying tapped under an Orb effect, or because we're making plenty of mana) and protecting a hatebear or Sisay is often well worth the price.
Sylvan Library - simply one of the best filtering/draw effects in our colors, and we can take extra advantage of it with access to repeatable shuffle.
Scroll Rack - as above, but typically even stronger. If we're digging for something like an MLD effect this is often our best way to do it, and again we can shuffle away our old hand with our commander.
Eternal Witness - standard, efficient recursion is very good.
Loyal Retainers - as above but for legendary creatures, but brings them to the battlefield. General value, but combos with Survival of the Fittest to cheaply reanimate a fatty, typically Elesh Norn as I don't currently run Iona.
Karmic Guide - more efficient recursion.
Sun Titan - EVEN MORE efficient recursion.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - our standard wincon is Elesh Norn/Living Plane, but Living Plane is hard to get out of our deck. Kamahl is comparatively easy, and provides a less-efficient version of the same result. G: kill a land is obviously fantastic, and with stuff like Seedborn Muse and our overall ramp, it can be very effective. Less commonly used, but still nice, is the overrun ability, which can let us close out games with combat damage. For example, Kamahl works nicely with Living Plane himself (although typically if you get Plane out you're just winning with Norn).
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - sometimes you find yourself with a bunch of mana and no cards to spend it on. I know, it happens to all of us. In that case, Koz is your best tutor target, as a massive, threatening beater that also refills your hand. Also, you can use it to shuffle in your GY with Survival of the Fittest. That's probably not going to be relevant often, but it can reset a tutor target if you don't have a recursion effect, or if Ground Seal is in play, for example.
Titania, Protector of Argoth - this is another card that has been much better than I expected. The biggest thing it can do is return Gaea's Cradle from your GY to play, after MLD, or maybe after it gets targeted by a Strip Mine. That can be a huge, unexpected jolt of mana that can win games on its own. Titania also gets nice random value with fetches, Wasteland/etc, and turns our MLD effects from something that helps win the game to something that immediately wins the game.
Living Plane - this is our main win condition. It turns all lands into 1/1 creatures (that retain the ability to tap for mana). With Linvala, our opponent's lands can't activate the mana ability, so they're restricted to just attacking as 1/1s. With Elesh Norn, everybody else's lands die and ours become 3/3 beaters. Generally, you shouldn't play out Living Plane unless you're immediately setting up the lock, as your lands become vulnerable to creature removal, and your Plane to enchantment removal. However, there are some times that it can be useful. For example, playing Living Plane is usually mana-positive with Cradle in play. That extra injection of mana might be what you need to put together a lock right away. Or, maybe you can overrun with Kamahl and your lands to win on the spot.
Tutors and Removal
These cards are pretty self-explanatory.
Missed the Cut
Here, I'll put some other cards that aren't in the deck. Some I've tested and left out, some I haven't gotten my hands on yet. I'll sort them by how confident I am that they shouldn't be in the deck.
(under re-construction: 11/15/2016)
Changelog
Changes will go here as they come!
With the complete revamp on 11/15/2016, this section is getting a restart.
Conclusion
Thank you for reading this whole thread! I hope you like the deck and are inspired to check out Captain Sisay. If you have absolutely any questions or suggestions, no matter how small or silly they seem, please post! I love discussing the deck and testing new options. Thanks again!
- Swiftfoot Boots
- Lignify
- Chord of Calling
- Stonecloaker
- Defense of the Heart
- Terminus
+ Exploration
+ Mana Vault
+ Oracle of Mul Daya
+ Aura of Silence
+ Reclamation Sage
+ Scavenging Ooze
Stonecloaker for Scavenging Ooze is effectively a straight swap. Stonecloaker's protection mode can be nice, but it is simply too inefficient in terms of graveyard hate and it is one of the weaker protection pieces. Moreover, it's untutorable with Wild Pair or Green Sun's Zenith. Ooze does this job better.
The 2 weakest pieces of creature removal are coming out for 2 very strong pieces of artifact and enchantment hate. Terminus is simply not consistent enough as it can't be tutored and affects me quite badly, while Lignify is probably just one too many of this effect after Darksteel Mutation and Prison Term (note that the indestructibility granted by Mutation is a good thing because an opponent doesn't get their commander back because of a wrath). I also noticed I was a bit too short on artifact and enchantment hate. Reclamation Sage goes in as a cheap creature that can be tutored for to get rid of something annoying, and Aura of Silence is a powerful tax and destruction effect that can be grabbed early against decks with heavy artifact ramp. Aura of Silence may also become Kataki, War's Wage.
The other three adds are simply additional ramp to speed up the deck. Mana Vault makes turn 2 Captain Sisay on its own, which is insane. Exploration is a tutorable way to speed us up over the course of the entire game, as is Oracle of Mul Daya. Oracle is particularly great in this deck because we shuffle a lot so it has a bunch of extra chances to hit. Out simply come what I identified as the worst remaining cards in the list. Chord of Calling is very mana-inefficient and is overly redundant with our other tutors. Defense of the Heart is a very powerful card, but in my metagame it almost never gets a chance to trigger without being destroyed, and we don't even instantly win when it does trigger. Swiftfoot Boots are simply too slow with the extra mana to equip - they don't allow for a turn 4 Sisay to activate instantly - and the ramp we replace them with allows for faster starts anyway.
These changes are currently being tested but feel quite likely to be implemented; I am playing some games this weekend and will update later on how they go.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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An additional note - it's very sad to say, but Garruk, Caller of Beasts and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes are decidedly on the chopping block. It pains me to say it, particularly since Ajani is my absolute favorite planeswalker (except maybe Kiora). These cards have been solid for quite a while as part of my philosophy of "have permanents that generate repeated card advantage to enable control in multiplayer". The issue is three-fold:
1. The two cards cost too much mana to not have an immediate effect - compare to Mirari's Wake and Wild Pair which each have the potential to massively swing the game right when you untap,
2. The two cards have a surprisingly high potential to brick, given the lower creature density in the list, and
3. The killer: Nissa, Vastwood Seer was printed. Nissa has been absolutely insane while I've played with it over the past several weeks. It does what Ajani and Garruk are there to do - lets me consistently draw 2 cards a turn - while being better in basically every other aspect. It's tutorable by Sisay so I see it very reliably, it fetches a Forest to help me smooth out my land drops in the first several turns, it doesn't brick with its draw ability and lets me draw into my utility spells/enchantments, and it even has the potential to ramp with its +1. What's more, the fact that it's a 3-drop creature with 2 power makes it very easy to reanimate with e.g. Reveillark, Karmic Guide and Sun Titan, while the other walkers are basically gone when they die outside Eternal Witness.
In short, Nissa has made the other two 'walkers redundant, and I'm looking to replace them. Considering additional 1 or 2 drop ramp to speed up the deck or some additional utility pieces a la Kataki, War's Wage or Seedborn Muse. This also may be the cut that finally opens up room for Hokori, Dust Drinker. Let me know what you think here!
I considered making the sisay primer a long time ago but I feared it would get a lot of traffic and I didn't want the obligation of replying to everybody. Plus one of the moderators loves to give me warnings for no apparent reason so providing feedback to people who ask questions would probably get me banned. Which wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose.
I made a bunch of changes to my sisay deck last month. Haven't played it much since so I'm still deciding on them. I took out some of the fatties and focused more on speed and resiliency. Sisay is a tutor general so I don't need many fatties to have a significant aggro presence.
Anyway, some suggestions:
- search for tomorrow
+ three visits (I think you mentioned this somewhere so I don't know why it isn't in the list).
- Ulamog the whatever
+ Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger (this dude is awesome!)
- something you don't like very much
+ loyal retainers (Absolutely insane with sisay/survival of the fittest. This will EASILY be one of the best cards in the deck. You can even put the new ulamog into play with it)
- lignify or darksteel mutation (these are more of a 1vs1 card)
+ mana crypt
*Note: if you can't afford crypt/retainers/etc, remember this is a primer and it should be an optimized list. People don't search for the sisay primer thinking hey, I want to see a list of what some random person on earth can afford. No, they want to see an optimized list (and a budget list). /my opinion
I don't have wild pair or nissa in my deck. After seeing your enthusiasm about them I'm gonna have to test them out.
Edit: whoa whoa whoa...where's staff of domination? That's an insane combo card, as well as a decent card on its own, especially in a deck that makes as much mana as this one does.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Thanks for the advice, rockondon. I like your list - the backbone seems pretty similar to mine, although we did seem to go pretty different directions in places. Three Visits and Mana Crypt should indeed go in, and I will perhaps make a note by the decklist that they are optimal/what to replace with them. As far as the new Ulamog, I can definitely see it going in, but I mostly test in paper so I won't know until I get my hands on one (definitely want it for my Kozilek EDH deck anyway). You aren't the first person to tell me I'm wrong for not running Loyal Retainers, so I suppose it's time for me to test it again. I didn't have Survival when I first tested it so maybe that's why I felt less enthusiastic.
I don't really see the appeal of Staff of Domination. I suppose untapping Sisay is nice but I would rather just run Thousand-Year Elixir? I don't have any creatures that can tap for 4 so I don't really see the combo potential, seems kinda do-nothing to me.
Anyway, I'm off to play some games with my group and will probably play tomorrow as well. I've got the updates I mentioned above in place so if they feel right I'll update the thread tomorrow to finalize the changes. Still looking for replacements for Ajani and Garruk (Retainers could be one).
staff of domination + gaea's cradle + (4 lands) + living plane = infinite mana/life/cards
staff of domination + gaea's cradle + (3 lands) + living plane + mirari's wake = infinite mana/life/cards
staff of domination + kamahl, fist of krosa + gaea's cradle + 3 other lands or creatures = infinite mana/life/cards.
What's neat is when you have a kamahl, staff, and gaea's cradle in play, most people don't realize that's a combo. Gotta love those sneaky wins.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
- Swiftfoot Boots
- Lignify
- Chord of Calling
- Stonecloaker
- Defense of the Heart
- Terminus
+ Exploration
+ Mana Vault
+ Oracle of Mul Daya
+ Aura of Silence
+ Reclamation Sage
+ Scavenging Ooze
For reasoning, see the post a bit above. I'm still working on what should go in to replace Ajani, Mentor of Heroes and Garruk, Caller of Beasts. For this weekend I threw in Skyshroud Claim and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (which were just some good cards I had on me). Neither particularly impressed me, though. I am working on acquiring a Loyal Retainers and Hokori, Dust Drinker to test with. Suggestions on this particular issue, and anything else in the list/thread, are still welcome!
As for Staff of Domination, I'm not really seeing it here. Living Plane only ever comes down when it's time for me to win the game, and I don't run Kamahl for animate shenanigans with Gaea's Cradle.
Fauna shaman is another excellent way to use loyal retainers, by the way.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Fauna Shaman is too slow in terms of "time to become useful" rather than mana cost. If she sticks around for a whole turn cycle, she's effectively an extra copy of Eladamri's Call. My meta has lots of spot removal and a pretty decent amount of wraths too, so that's simply not good enough. In contrast, cards like Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Archetype of Endurance have immediate and powerful effects right when they hit the table.
Glad you liked it! I ran Dosan the Falling Leaf for a very long time, but very recently cut it as Dragonlord Dromoka does everything it does while being uncounterable and allowing you to cast defensive instants when necessary. The effect is important but not enough to have such a redundant (and worse) card in the list, in my mind. If I did want another effect to protect from counters, I'd add City of Solitude instead, to diversify access to the effect with my tutors and also vary the removal necessary to remove it.
Sylvan Library is a card I really should have tested already, and hopefully I will get my hands on one soon to try it out. Sylvan, Loyal Retainers, Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Hokori, Dust Drinker are on high on my list as Ajani/Garruk replacements for the moment.
The new green blighted land, Blighted Woodland, is something I'll be testing from the new set. I'm also testing Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to replace the old Ulamog. Beastcaller Savant may make it in as a way to ramp immediately off creature tutors. Stasis Snare is very likely to make the cut, possibly over Prison Term, possibly over something else as additional removal - flash is very good. Outside this, I haven't seen anything else in Battle for Zendikar that we would play.
I'm still working on how to replace the two walkers - Loyal Retainers and Hokori, Dust Drinker are leading the pack right now, but I still want to do more testing on Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile in particular. Hopefully I'll resolve this by the weekend, but my friends and I are going to the midnight prerelease, so we may be a bit too tired for EDH
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- Plea for Guidance
- Sigarda, Host of Herons
- Garruk, Caller of Beasts
- Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
- Forest
+ Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
+ Stasis Snare
+ Canopy Vista
+ Loyal Retainers
+ Hokori, Dust Drinker
+ Wooded Foothills
In detail:
Retainers and Hokori were my final choices to replace the two planeswalkers. Retainers speeds up the deck considerably and provides helpful reanimation, while Hokori helps proactively lock down the board which is very threatening when you can power it out quickly or protect it with something like Archetype of Endurance.
The Ulamogs are a straight swap. The new one is 1 cheaper and exiles 2 permanents which is significantly better than destroying 1. Annihilator is sad to lose, but it didn't happen often anyway. The graveyard shuffle is a negligible loss.
Stasis Snare is very good removal that is tutorable with my enchantment suite. Flash is obviously stellar. Plea for Guidance is simply the worst card in the list at the moment, it's unfortunately clunky and telegraphs my future turns because it's difficult to tutor and lay the enchantments you grab at the same time with its high mana cost.
Canopy Vista is something I forgot to mention before and is obviously a strict upgrade. This change is really Canopy Vista replacing a Forest and then a Forest replacing Sigarda, Host of Herons. Sigarda has gotten significantly worse for my meta since the Sheoldred deck graduated and left town and nobody is playing cards like Living Death. I have been thinking about going up to 38 lands for some time and this was the cut I made for it. We don't really worry about flooding out since Sisay keeps us drawing gas and the recent additions of Exploration and Oracle of Mul Daya incentivize the higher land count to keep us hitting all our land drops.
Lastly, I'm adding off-color fetches as I trade for them (I'm not going out of my way to purchase them since they're negligible upgrades and rather expensive). Got a Foothills recently, so in it goes over a Forest.
I'm about to edit these changes into the OP. Also, this thread has been bare lately. Anybody who's checking it out, please comment with any questions, comments or anything else on your mind, no matter how small! Always happy to discuss the list or help out anybody with Sisay.
what are your thoughts for someone on a budget who can't afford idyllic tutor, loyal retainers and nissa right now. i eventually would get them but right now it's tough. i'm thinking sylvan library, bow of nylea for tutor/retainers.
Hey man, glad you like the thread! Fortunately, Idyllic Tutor and Loyal Retainers are only very good support cards rather than cards that are core to the gameplan, so replacing them shouldn't hurt the deck too much. Sylvan Library is definitely a great card to include (kinda surprised though, isn't it more expensive? Unless it's just that you already have a Library). As for Bow of Nylea, I'm not a huge fan as its primary function is done by Mistveil Plains. If its another recursion effect you want, I'd recommend Reya Dawnbringer, Genesis or maybe that new BFZ card, Emeria Shepherd (haven't tested the last one before, but it seems pretty powerful).
I'd definitely recommend that you grab Nissa as soon as you can, though, since it being tutorable means it's huge for the deck. If I were replacing it on a budget I'd decide if I wanted another CA engine or if I thought Reki would be good enough. For extra CA maybe Selvala, Explorer Returned (particularly if your metagame isn't too high power level, since then the drawback is less), otherwise I'd include a utility legend like Kataki or Thalia.
thanks for your reply
i have most of this deck already lol i've been collecting for a while but stopped for the last year. wasn't making enough to buy singles. so yea, i already have a library. had one for a while lol i'm definitely tweaking it to more my style but still looking at stuff you put in yours cause i really like it. i definitely think i'm gonna get nissa as well.
Gotcha. I wish I had gotten into the game earlier to build up my collection cuz it's a pain buying stuff on a college student's budget but we all make do with what we've got, I suppose.
Anyway, I pulled an expedition Bloodstained Mire and a Gideon out of my fat pack earlier !_! planning on swapping the Mire in for a Cradle when I head down to the next GP so I can finally have it in paper! And, the Gideon turned into a Misty Rainforest, so that's going in the deck.
+ Misty Rainforest
- Forest
More shuffling. Woohoo!
- Day of Judgment
- Reclamation Sage
+ Austere Command
+ Kataki, War's Wage
Command is a lot of extra flexibility over Day of Judgment which is mostly redundant with the tutorable Myojin of Cleansing Fire, and Kataki gives a tutorable annoyance to artifact decks which hopefully will prove to be enough to keep them in check. If I determine I need more removal, I'll go back and consider adding in stuff like Reclamation Sage, Return to Dust and Bane of Progress.
Other things I'm considering:
More GY hate - my meta includes a Sharuum player who heavily relies on his Salvaging Station engine and I would like some additional graveyard hate to mess with him. To my eternal regret we do not have a legendary piece of graveyard hate and sometimes Scooze just doesn't get there. And, I can't run Rest in Peace because I heavily rely on my own graveyard. Suggestions here are appreciated.
Boonweaver combo - adding the Boonweaver Giant and Pattern of Rebirth combo (as suggested by a friend) is effectively a way to accelerate out the Rev/Guide combo in this deck. Unfortunately since we don't have black we don't have easy sac outlets and would have to stretch a bit. There are options, though: Altar of Dementia, Blasting Station, Fanatical Devotion and Martyr's Cause. Would also likely require adding Fierce Empath and Fiend Hunter. This would require a significant overhaul of the deck, so I'd need to test for a bit to figure out what would come out and how to accommodate the combo. If it could work, it would be another powerful angle of attack to include. I welcome opinions here.
I'll update the OP just as soon as the Royals polish off the Blue Jays here
I use Primal Command as a toolbox graveyard hate / mill save / creature summon, as I couldn't find a reasonable tutorable answer to graveyard combos. Rest in Peace would be much more efficient, but shuts down any graveyard combos you might run, bit of a double-edged sword.