You're aiming for an Aggro build, right? That looks similar to what mine used to look like, up until I switched to a combo oriented build.
The only thing I would add is that you should check out my 'Problem Cards' section, because it especially applies to aggro builds. Part of the reason I switched to a more combo-oriented build was because of the issues I talk about in that section.
Also, Tuktuk Scrapper can't do anything if there is an opposing Torpor Orb. I know that Goblin Replica is ultimately more expensive, but I've found its utility outweighs that (and it's killed a fair number of Torpor Orbs on my behalf). In general, I also don't like to have cards that compete with my commander.
Do you care to include fetch lands to thin the deck a bit as well as shuffle?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Proud owner of the EDH 'Infinite Combos and Strong Synergies' thread
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
I would, but this is a physical list and I don't have the money to use fetch lands like that (especially between ~8 decks, and swapping cards in and out is a pain).
That's fair. I wasn't sure if it was necessarily necessary since the deck is single color. I don't think there's a 'future/proposed wants' section but for decks I usually like to start with infinite money and work backwards, which is why I'll often ask people whose decks I'm interested in, "If you could make this with infinite money, what would you do to it?"
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Proud owner of the EDH 'Infinite Combos and Strong Synergies' thread
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
It's still helpful in mono-color, I think, even if you can only pack about four in.
Infinite Money isn't much of a concern for Krenko, since he leans budget with a few exceptions anyway. I think the only cards I would want for him would be things like Ancient Tomb where I can drop him faster. Maybe some of the better red draw. I'm waiting on EMA to see if gamble gets a reprint before buying it.
Why no Goblin Game? Its an epic pick for tribal flavor for this deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#TeamChimneyImpForMythic
I am trying to get better at making decks. I have had trouble creating more competitive decks as I only really build with the cards I have. I dont have that many value cards, in function or expense. I (almost) never play at FNM type events so its not like im playing against $2k decks. If I do usally play at one, Its a draft or limited game. Any advice on building decks is greatly supported! DMs are appreciated.
Thank you!
To put it more simply, it's like saying, "I can prove Jesus is real and loves you. See? Here's my Hispanic friend Jesus. He's had a crush on you for a long time. Tell em' Jesus."
Here's a joke! Whats the internal temperature of a Taun-Taun?
Why no Goblin Game? Its an epic pick for tribal flavor for this deck.
That would be a cute addition, but seven mana is way too much in this deck. Godo, Bandit Warlord is my only true six drop, and even he was a very tough choice (only in there because he tutors for a win con, lol). Obelisk of Urd is usually at 0 for me.
The goal of this deck is to get a lot of advantage earlier, and recover quickly from board wipes. Stuff like Goblin Game just doesn't fit in there.
Do you think a higher curve version of this deck would work in a slower meta? I run a similar build, with cards like Caged Sun, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of power. I feel like I need them, but it makes me really vulnerable to artifact hate.
I do! There are a few things you can do that would make Krenko better for a slower Meta. If you're worried about artifact hate, the mana doublers your mention are fine, just don't count on them for mana - consider them to just be anthems with an added bonus if you need it.
I would also note, Skirk Prospector, Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar are your best friends. You'd be surprised how long I lasted with one of those on the field and only five mountains. Treasonous Ogre is great for the longer games as well, as it can put you over the hump, mana-wise.
Staff of Domination is fantastic in this deck, but it's also a bit win-more. I have more than ten combos in here that generate infinite mana, but only two(?) of them only generate infinite mana, and most of them will win me the game most of the time regardless. The control aspect is something I'll look into though - see if it can't push through for wins I wouldn't otherwise get. I'm wary of it, because I'm not sure how useful it would be without infinite mana.
I used Hall of the Bandit Lord and maybe swap it out for it, since Hall has hurt me in a few too many games.
My problem is that I always end up with too many colorless mana producers for some reason, so I'm hesitant to swap any more in even though I know it's a statistical anomaly.
Goblins were my FIRST Deck every and I loved them!
Is there any kind of Decklist which I can buy for about 100$? The deck should at least be playable against an Swell the Host Ezuri (Commander preconstructed) which has about 20$ in Upgrades.
Is it possible? I'd really love to play Goblins again
I have a budget substitutions sections that should help in that regard. I haven't checked the exactly price, but if you let me know which cards are out of your price range, I'll let you know what to replace them with.
My recommendation is to ensure you keep the 'core' of the deck, namely the combo pieces at the heart of it. Most everything else can be substituted.
Hey,
see attached picture Thats the prices with mkm.de and if I use your primer cards he automaticlly chooses the cheapest of all combinations. Getting down to about 100 will be a challenge (30 Bucks are Shipping fo this - so total Card Value is about 200 Dollar)I
Ill see what I can do. PM me if I haven't responded in a day or two.
Hey,
see attached picture Thats the prices with mkm.de and if I use your primer cards he automaticlly chooses the cheapest of all combinations. Getting down to about 100 will be a challenge (30 Bucks are Shipping fo this - so total Card Value is about 200 Dollar)I
Ill see what I can do. PM me if I haven't responded in a day or two.
Okay, here is a budget list, ringing it at just under $100 ($97 US). Please note, I haven't playtested this deck, but it should still work more or less like the main deck, with fewer bells and whistles and a less consistency due to needing to jettison Gamble and some redundant combo pieces like Phyrexian Altar, as well as alternate combos using Kiki-Jiki or Splinter twin.
For haste enablers I'm worried about Ashling's Prerogative not working well with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, how has it worked for you? Also, I really like running Mass Hysteria as a one drop haste enabler, the global effect doesn't seem relevant for my meta.
For non-budget builds, what do you think about Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, and/or Lotus Pedal? The fast mana can lead to a quick T2/3 Krenko and get to churning little green men much faster. Just my thoughts as I really like getting him out early and going for it.
Lastly, red has always had issues with card draw/card advantage which is why it can't hang in a late game so well, here are my solutions for your consideration:
1. Memory Jar - This is just straight gas. With our low curve we can generally just play the hand we draw and force our opponents to effectively mill seven.
2. Slate of Ancestry - I usually win the turn I activate this. Even if you just use it to dig deeper for answers or combo pieces it is fantastic.
3. Humber Defector+Homeward Path - This is just repeatable card draw that gets better with untap effects and really helps with early game politics.
4. Rummaging Goblin+Squee, Goblin Nabob - Again, repeatable card draw with no downside, what's better is using it with Rings to discard Squee and draw two cards
A lot of what you're talking about depends on the meta, and these are all good suggestions. I'll break them down one by one and we can chat about them.
So, the issue with Basilisk Collar in this deck is thanks to the various combos, it is rarely necessary. I'm more likely to find one of my pieces of untapping equipment. And, overall, it works best with Goblin Sharpshooter. As I mention about Sharpshooter, it takes advantage of all my death triggers to get plenty of kills in anyway.
Skirk Fire Marshal doesn't need it because if I'm casting him or using his ability, I've almost always won the game. The lifelink part is nice, and if you're going for a more battlecruiser magic style of play I'd say go for it. At minimum, you're gaining what, 70 life? That's awesome.
For haste enablers I'm worried about Ashling's Prerogative not working well with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, how has it worked for you? Also, I really like running Mass Hysteria as a one drop haste enabler, the global effect doesn't seem relevant for my meta.
I've had no problems with Ashling's Prerogative and Kiki-Jiki. Kiki-Jiki tends to be a back-up win con behind Krenko anyway, so the bonus it gives Krenko and the tokens way outweighs the chances of a drawback with Kiki-Jiki.
If I know I'm going for a Kiki-Jiki strategy, I generally won't play it (for instance, if Kiki-Jiki is in my opening hand).
For non-budget builds, what do you think about Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, and/or Lotus Pedal? The fast mana can lead to a quick T2/3 Krenko and get to churning little green men much faster. Just my thoughts as I really like getting him out early and going for it.
Those are legit strategies, although I'm not sure there are enough low-cost artifacts to justify Mox Opal. Diamond and Lotus Petal are fine, but I fine that a consistent turn 4 Krenko tends to work out nicely for me, supposing I use the first three turns wisely. From a purely politics perspective, my opponents knowing I can't rush out Krenko means I'm never an immediate priority, but a T1 Krenko is basically a death sentence. This is highly dependent on your meta, however. Early Krenko is sweet, but only if you can survive, and you need a minimum of four of the cards in your opening hand dedicated to getting Krenko out that early, which I've found hurts your mid-game, especially if there is a Wrath turn four or five you've blown your entire opening hand.
Lastly, red has always had issues with card draw/card advantage which is why it can't hang in a late game so well, here are my solutions for your consideration:
1. Memory Jar - This is just straight gas. With our low curve we can generally just play the hand we draw and force our opponents to effectively mill seven.
I have two Memory Jars and they're much more valuable in my Sharuum and Daretti decks, and honestly I just don't know what I'd cut for it. Because I prioritize the early and mid games here, and Jar is more of a late game boon, so I don't include it even though it's a solid card!
2. Slate of Ancestry - I usually win the turn I activate this. Even if you just use it to dig deeper for answers or combo pieces it is fantastic.
Apparently I've moved Slate of Ancestry back into this deck? It's powerful card draw, and if it isn't reflect on the front page I'll fix it soon. Given the more permanent nature of the card draw, this is one of my few late game concessions, or mid-game refuelings if I've spent my hand.
3. Humble Defector+Homeward Path - This is just repeatable card draw that gets better with untap effects and really helps with early game politics.
I try and keep my non-goblins low, and I get homeward path so rarely that I'm just not a big fan. I try to avoid more restricted combos like this, especially when there are easier ways of getting cards.
4. Rummaging Goblin+Squee, Goblin Nabob - Again, repeatable card draw with no downside, what's better is using it with Rings to discard Squee and draw two cards
I agree, but after a lot of consideration I'll explain why Squee hasn't made the cut. Essentially, he adds nothing on his own. If I get a rummaging goblin or a faithless looting or something he's handy, but if I don't he tends to be a dead card, an overcosted 1/1 that sits in my hand. I'd honestly rather have any of my other 3 drops at that point. In Daretti? Squee is a damn superhero, because he's always a free card.
Thanks for the suggestions! Just because they don't work for me doesn't make them bad, I think they're all pretty good, they just don't align with my particular strategy or meta.
So, the issue with Basilisk Collar in this deck is thanks to the various combos, it is rarely necessary. I'm more likely to find one of my pieces of untapping equipment. And, overall, it works best with Goblin Sharpshooter. As I mention about Sharpshooter, it takes advantage of all my death triggers to get plenty of kills in anyway.
Skirk Fire Marshal doesn't need it because if I'm casting him or using his ability, I've almost always won the game. The lifelink part is nice, and if you're going for a more battlecruiser magic style of play I'd say go for it. At minimum, you're gaining what, 70 life? That's awesome.
I agree that meta and playstyle have a lot to do with a commander deck. I enjoy winning big with the Skirk Fire Marshal and Basilisk Collar together, but the creature removal I gain off the Sharpshooter synergy is valuable in my brew due to the limited answers I run for spot removal in that deck.
I've had no problems with Ashling's Prerogative and Kiki-Jiki. Kiki-Jiki tends to be a back-up win con behind Krenko anyway, so the bonus it gives Krenko and the tokens way outweighs the chances of a drawback with Kiki-Jiki.
If I know I'm going for a Kiki-Jiki strategy, I generally won't play it (for instance, if Kiki-Jiki is in my opening hand).
Thank you for the insight, I'll definitely work it into my build. I also noticed that you don't run Anger, is that just because there isn't room or do you have another reason (i.e, mass grave hate in your play group). I've never had any major issues running him, he's great for a discard to Rummaging Goblin or Wheel, and I've even Gambled for him with only one card in hand before just to put him into the graveyard
Those are legit strategies, although I'm not sure there are enough low-cost artifacts to justify Mox Opal. Diamond and Lotus Petal are fine, but I fine that a consistent turn 4 Krenko tends to work out nicely for me, supposing I use the first three turns wisely. From a purely politics perspective, my opponents knowing I can't rush out Krenko means I'm never an immediate priority, but a T1 Krenko is basically a death sentence. This is highly dependent on your meta, however. Early Krenko is sweet, but only if you can survive, and you need a minimum of four of the cards in your opening hand dedicated to getting Krenko out that early, which I've found hurts your mid-game, especially if there is a Wrath turn four or five you've blown your entire opening hand.
This kinda fits right into the reasons I like having a lot of card draw in my brew. Running out an early Krenko with enough mana to cast him again when he gets removed then refilling my hand off a wheel effect or other draw outlet is enough to stay in a game. Also, those wheel effects early on can really hunt your opponents (or help them, so be the power of Mountain). I've had games go T1, mountain, sol ring, mox ~, goblin or useful enchantment/equipment, T2, land, one drop, wheel and forced my opponents to discard their opening hands (effectively). Sure, it doesn't happen every game and I don't always run Krenko out on T2 or 3 with a fast start like that, but the potential is huge.
Another card draw engine I failed to mention earlier is Scroll Rack+Madblind Mountain or your fetch lands (which can actually fetch Madblind Mountain!) it's more card selection instead of draw but again, you can dig deep if you need to finish the game.
Your points on Squee make me sad, but looking back on a few games I know you are correct. I have had a few games where Squee just sits in my hand or I cast and Skullclamp him away to draw some cards without a lot of value. I may look at cutting him from my list and see how much I miss him.
Some other points I want to make after re-reading the primer. I really like Outpost Siege. You don't play it because of the curve, which is understandable, but I would like to point out that it says, "Whenever a creature you control leaves the battlefield, ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player." This effect is pretty significate in my opinion as it means an opponent can't Cyclonic Rift your board without getting punched in the face. It's also nice to gain the ability to target creature or players as the other options Krenko typically run only hit players. Additionally, you can get some card advantage off it in a pinch but I have never used it for that.
Also, I used to run Sword of the Paruns but I really never liked it over Staff of Domination. I pulled the equipment out and replaced it as soon as I could get a copy of the latter. The Staff gives you options in a limited color. The "Tap a creature" ability has been relevant for me on more than one occasion. Also, once you are able to make infinite mana, but can't close out the game due to lack of a passive or direct damage enabler OR lack of haste, you can pour that mana into drawing what you need to draw to win. Overall, I feel like the Staff is better for an untap effect due to the versatility it provides. At the vary least I think it should be mentioned in the Primer as an option for people looking to build a Combo Krenko deck.
Thanks for the thoughtful response! Let me address some of it without all the quotes.
First, I have too hard a time getting Anger into my graveyard, at least in the first fourish turns when I really want to, and I found my early builds (one of which included Anger) were too diluted in the non-Goblin arena, making it sometimes hard to recover from a wrath with Krenko. Second, there isn't a whole lot of enchantment hate in my meta, so my enchantments tend to be safe, and I have enough early game haste enablers anyway. It's mostly an issue of "this is good, but where do I slot it?", you know?
Thanks for the note on Outpost Siege... it never occurred to me that it isn't a true death trigger. I'll have to look at it again!
Reasoning: It was becoming clear that Krenko (and a few other goblins) needed more spot removal protection than they were getting. While the deck could recover from losing certain key elements, having that extra bit of haste and protection has come in handy on a couple occasions already. Piledriver is out because it's typically DOA, the few times it has come through or been a good distraction isn't enough to justify the slot. Replaced with Goblin King, which is a nice Lord and with Blood Moon makes an aggro strategy essentially unstoppable. Price of Glory just made me a target. Sword of the Paruns has been upgraded to Staff of Domination. For the first untap, Sword costs 3 more than Staff. The extra cost for using staff is offset by the infinite mana strategies and the ability to untap multiple creatures.
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser is a windmill slam into this deck. I'll have a full CN2 update ready once the full spoiler is up on Monday.
I'm also considering removing at least Splinter Twin from the deck. I rarely ever use it, and it feels a lot more win-more, I don't enjoy playing it if I do use it. I'd rather get something else in that would be fun to play.
Grenzo is super interesting, I'd like to test him out as well. Seems like he can provide card draw at the expense of everyone else; super sweet. I was also looking at cutting Splinter Twin from my build, but I haven't yet. Mostly I feel like I can really get value off it. I'll leave it in for now, but it is on a list of things that could probably get replaced.
The main problem I have with Lightning Greaves is that you can't use certain untap effects with it equipped to Krenko. You can always just move it back and forth if you want to; but then you are opening him up to removal. Have you considered just running Shunt instead as it can just redirect that spot removal to a new target OR let you just use your opponents Time Stretch? Other considerations are the typical Fork, Reverberate, Reiterate, or Wild Ricochet but those only copy and don't protect him. Personally I just let him eat removal and recast since there are multiple haste enablers, but again, meta-dependent.
How do you feel about Goblin Gardener and/or Goblin Settler? Tutorable LD seems really solid, but I'm on the fence about it being a corner case most times. There are only about five lands I feel must get blown up, and only one that really stops us (Glacial Chasm) which mean just being conservative with our Strip Mine is probably enough. There is something to be said for throwing a Splinter Twin on either though...but then it feels like I'm justifying a card for another card.
Hey, thanks for the input! Let's talk Grenzo first: he's probably one of the most useful Goblins ever printed, and set iems custom made for token decks. He's built in card advantage, and stealing my opponents ramp is going to be the sweetest thing. Think of the chaos Jeleva causes! Being able to play our opponent's best spells is pretty awesome. He also makes attacking without killing worthwhile, because we can basically clear the battlefield. We will often be able to goad most of a player's creatures, AND protect ourselves from retaliation in the mean time.
On to the other stuff! The beauty of greaves with Krenko is that I can always give him haste to create tokens, then move greaves to one of those tokens when I'm ready for a combo. Shunt is fine, but I can't really see a time where I would use it too much, I eat a lot more wraths than spot removal.
As for Land Destruction, I play in a group that operates on points. Given the group, there isn't a huge call for Land Destruction but I can see the need for some land spot removal. Our group penalizes destroying more than half an opponents lands (taken cumulatively), so it's usually not worth the risk, and ghost quarter or strip mine can usually take care of business when problem lands show up.
I don't know about Jay, but I don't care for Reforge the Soul in mono-red without a miracle enabler such as Sensei's Divining Top or Scroll Rack. The reason is that whenever I had it in hand, I didn't want to cast it because it tied up too much mana; and if I top decked it, I didn't want to cast it because of an important card in my hand. I do have one in my wish board for Burning Wish to find if I really need that effect, but I found just the original to be enough most games.
That being said, I have edited my list to run Scroll Rack to get card advantage between that and Madblind Mountain but I really have no idea what to cut for Reforge the Soul at this point as the list is very good as is in my opinion. I thought about dropping Nim Deathmantle, but as I've said, I found one Wheel effect to be enough and I can always wish for another.
Edit: I do like Reforge the Soul in UR or BR; it's always so nice to Vampiric Tutor at the EOT into a Wheel on your draw step
Your current edit of the decklist has 99 cards, also the decklist after card type (and the third) aren't updated yet. I suggest having one on tappedout even.
Not having a good boardwipe makes me feel insecure, maybe a Bonfire of the Damned, Mizzium Mortars or Blasphemous Act can help.
Honestly, this is the deck boardwipes were designed for. I'm going to be attracting them. But, worst case scenario Skirk Fire Marshal is a tutorable wrath.
Both of those are fine, if you're looking at a longer game.
What I am thinking now is possibly including Chandra, Flamecaller, which gives me a bit more one-sided wheel effect (but still useful if my hand is full of land) and a wrath effect when needed.
How about swapping Splinter Twin for Outpost Siege? "Dragons" is amazing in this deck, however "Khans" can be useful if you don't draw into you better draw spells - same effect as Abbot of Keral Keep, and that is (used to be) a bomb.
That's a great idea. I was going to look into re-incorporating it, and it's even the same CMC. It'll probably be in the my next update, once CN2 is out.
I don't know about Jay, but I don't care for Reforge the Soul in mono-red without a miracle enabler such as Sensei's Divining Top or Scroll Rack. The reason is that whenever I had it in hand, I didn't want to cast it because it tied up too much mana; and if I top decked it, I didn't want to cast it because of an important card in my hand. I do have one in my wish board for Burning Wish to find if I really need that effect, but I found just the original to be enough most games.
That being said, I have edited my list to run Scroll Rack to get card advantage between that and Madblind Mountain but I really have no idea what to cut for Reforge the Soul at this point as the list is very good as is in my opinion. I thought about dropping Nim Deathmantle, but as I've said, I found one Wheel effect to be enough and I can always wish for another.
Edit: I do like Reforge the Soul in UR or BR; it's always so nice to Vampiric Tutor at the EOT into a Wheel on your draw step
Yeah, and while those are all perfectly valid options, and I do pull shenanigans like that in other decks, I do really like the way my deck runs right now, and to swap in enough to include those effects would take away from the very aggressive early game strategy I have going right now.
The only thing I would add is that you should check out my 'Problem Cards' section, because it especially applies to aggro builds. Part of the reason I switched to a more combo-oriented build was because of the issues I talk about in that section.
Also, Tuktuk Scrapper can't do anything if there is an opposing Torpor Orb. I know that Goblin Replica is ultimately more expensive, but I've found its utility outweighs that (and it's killed a fair number of Torpor Orbs on my behalf). In general, I also don't like to have cards that compete with my commander.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
Freezing Point EDH series #1 (click through the other articles too!)
That's a perfectly valid strategy, however.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
Freezing Point EDH series #1 (click through the other articles too!)
Infinite Money isn't much of a concern for Krenko, since he leans budget with a few exceptions anyway. I think the only cards I would want for him would be things like Ancient Tomb where I can drop him faster. Maybe some of the better red draw. I'm waiting on EMA to see if gamble gets a reprint before buying it.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Thank you!
I should note, I'm swapping in the new Mogg War Marshal and Ashnod's Altar art, because they're so pretty.
That would be a cute addition, but seven mana is way too much in this deck. Godo, Bandit Warlord is my only true six drop, and even he was a very tough choice (only in there because he tutors for a win con, lol). Obelisk of Urd is usually at 0 for me.
The goal of this deck is to get a lot of advantage earlier, and recover quickly from board wipes. Stuff like Goblin Game just doesn't fit in there.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I would run at least part of a colorless ramp package: Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum, Wayfarer's Bauble, Pilgrim's Eye, Expedition Map, or Armillary Sphere. It's much harder to take away your lands than it is your artifacts.
I would also note, Skirk Prospector, Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar are your best friends. You'd be surprised how long I lasted with one of those on the field and only five mountains. Treasonous Ogre is great for the longer games as well, as it can put you over the hump, mana-wise.
Staff of Domination is fantastic in this deck, but it's also a bit win-more. I have more than ten combos in here that generate infinite mana, but only two(?) of them only generate infinite mana, and most of them will win me the game most of the time regardless. The control aspect is something I'll look into though - see if it can't push through for wins I wouldn't otherwise get. I'm wary of it, because I'm not sure how useful it would be without infinite mana.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I cut Akroma's Memorial, mostly at the point where it makes a difference I've already won anyway. Plus, 7 Mana is a LOT for my version of the deck.
But anyway, I don't know what other advice I can give for a Battleship Krenko deck. Could you post it so I can take a look?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
My recommendation is to ensure you keep the 'core' of the deck, namely the combo pieces at the heart of it. Most everything else can be substituted.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Okay, here is a budget list, ringing it at just under $100 ($97 US). Please note, I haven't playtested this deck, but it should still work more or less like the main deck, with fewer bells and whistles and a less consistency due to needing to jettison Gamble and some redundant combo pieces like Phyrexian Altar, as well as alternate combos using Kiki-Jiki or Splinter twin.
1x Beetleback Chief
1x Burnished Hart
1x Feldon of the Third Path
1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Chirurgeon
1x Goblin King
1x Goblin Matron
1x Goblin Piledriver
1x Goblin Recruiter
1x Goblin Replica
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Goblin Sledder
1x Goblin Warchief
1x Lightning Crafter
1x Mogg Raider
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Rummaging Goblin
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Skirk Fire Marshal
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Treasonous Ogre
1x Voracious Dragon
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Armillary Sphere
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Coat of Arms
1x Hammer of Purphoros
1x Illusionist's Bracers
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Obelisk of Urd
1x Skullclamp
1x Slate of Ancestry
1x Sol Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sword of the Paruns
1x Thornbite Staff
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Umbral Mantle
1x Ashling's Prerogative
1x Boggart Shenanigans
1x Fervor
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Impact Tremors
1x Kyren Negotiations
1x Mana Echoes
1x Quest for the Goblin Lord
1x Buried Ruin
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Goblin Burrows
1x Haunted Fengraf
31x Mountain
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Burn at the Stake
1x Dragon Fodder
1x Faithless Looting
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Hordeling Outburst
1x Krenko's Command
1x Tormenting Voice
1x Vandalblast
1x Wild Guess
1x Battle Hymn
1x Brightstone Ritual
1x Chaos Warp
1x Comet Storm
1x Last-Ditch Effort
1x Street Spasm
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
For haste enablers I'm worried about Ashling's Prerogative not working well with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, how has it worked for you? Also, I really like running Mass Hysteria as a one drop haste enabler, the global effect doesn't seem relevant for my meta.
For non-budget builds, what do you think about Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, and/or Lotus Pedal? The fast mana can lead to a quick T2/3 Krenko and get to churning little green men much faster. Just my thoughts as I really like getting him out early and going for it.
Lastly, red has always had issues with card draw/card advantage which is why it can't hang in a late game so well, here are my solutions for your consideration:
1. Memory Jar - This is just straight gas. With our low curve we can generally just play the hand we draw and force our opponents to effectively mill seven.
2. Slate of Ancestry - I usually win the turn I activate this. Even if you just use it to dig deeper for answers or combo pieces it is fantastic.
3. Humber Defector+Homeward Path - This is just repeatable card draw that gets better with untap effects and really helps with early game politics.
4. Rummaging Goblin+Squee, Goblin Nabob - Again, repeatable card draw with no downside, what's better is using it with Rings to discard Squee and draw two cards
A lot of what you're talking about depends on the meta, and these are all good suggestions. I'll break them down one by one and we can chat about them.
So, the issue with Basilisk Collar in this deck is thanks to the various combos, it is rarely necessary. I'm more likely to find one of my pieces of untapping equipment. And, overall, it works best with Goblin Sharpshooter. As I mention about Sharpshooter, it takes advantage of all my death triggers to get plenty of kills in anyway.
Skirk Fire Marshal doesn't need it because if I'm casting him or using his ability, I've almost always won the game. The lifelink part is nice, and if you're going for a more battlecruiser magic style of play I'd say go for it. At minimum, you're gaining what, 70 life? That's awesome.
I've had no problems with Ashling's Prerogative and Kiki-Jiki. Kiki-Jiki tends to be a back-up win con behind Krenko anyway, so the bonus it gives Krenko and the tokens way outweighs the chances of a drawback with Kiki-Jiki.
If I know I'm going for a Kiki-Jiki strategy, I generally won't play it (for instance, if Kiki-Jiki is in my opening hand).
Those are legit strategies, although I'm not sure there are enough low-cost artifacts to justify Mox Opal. Diamond and Lotus Petal are fine, but I fine that a consistent turn 4 Krenko tends to work out nicely for me, supposing I use the first three turns wisely. From a purely politics perspective, my opponents knowing I can't rush out Krenko means I'm never an immediate priority, but a T1 Krenko is basically a death sentence. This is highly dependent on your meta, however. Early Krenko is sweet, but only if you can survive, and you need a minimum of four of the cards in your opening hand dedicated to getting Krenko out that early, which I've found hurts your mid-game, especially if there is a Wrath turn four or five you've blown your entire opening hand.
I have two Memory Jars and they're much more valuable in my Sharuum and Daretti decks, and honestly I just don't know what I'd cut for it. Because I prioritize the early and mid games here, and Jar is more of a late game boon, so I don't include it even though it's a solid card!
Apparently I've moved Slate of Ancestry back into this deck? It's powerful card draw, and if it isn't reflect on the front page I'll fix it soon. Given the more permanent nature of the card draw, this is one of my few late game concessions, or mid-game refuelings if I've spent my hand.
I try and keep my non-goblins low, and I get homeward path so rarely that I'm just not a big fan. I try to avoid more restricted combos like this, especially when there are easier ways of getting cards.
I agree, but after a lot of consideration I'll explain why Squee hasn't made the cut. Essentially, he adds nothing on his own. If I get a rummaging goblin or a faithless looting or something he's handy, but if I don't he tends to be a dead card, an overcosted 1/1 that sits in my hand. I'd honestly rather have any of my other 3 drops at that point. In Daretti? Squee is a damn superhero, because he's always a free card.
Thanks for the suggestions! Just because they don't work for me doesn't make them bad, I think they're all pretty good, they just don't align with my particular strategy or meta.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I agree that meta and playstyle have a lot to do with a commander deck. I enjoy winning big with the Skirk Fire Marshal and Basilisk Collar together, but the creature removal I gain off the Sharpshooter synergy is valuable in my brew due to the limited answers I run for spot removal in that deck.
Thank you for the insight, I'll definitely work it into my build. I also noticed that you don't run Anger, is that just because there isn't room or do you have another reason (i.e, mass grave hate in your play group). I've never had any major issues running him, he's great for a discard to Rummaging Goblin or Wheel, and I've even Gambled for him with only one card in hand before just to put him into the graveyard
This kinda fits right into the reasons I like having a lot of card draw in my brew. Running out an early Krenko with enough mana to cast him again when he gets removed then refilling my hand off a wheel effect or other draw outlet is enough to stay in a game. Also, those wheel effects early on can really hunt your opponents (or help them, so be the power of Mountain). I've had games go T1, mountain, sol ring, mox ~, goblin or useful enchantment/equipment, T2, land, one drop, wheel and forced my opponents to discard their opening hands (effectively). Sure, it doesn't happen every game and I don't always run Krenko out on T2 or 3 with a fast start like that, but the potential is huge.
Another card draw engine I failed to mention earlier is Scroll Rack+Madblind Mountain or your fetch lands (which can actually fetch Madblind Mountain!) it's more card selection instead of draw but again, you can dig deep if you need to finish the game.
Your points on Squee make me sad, but looking back on a few games I know you are correct. I have had a few games where Squee just sits in my hand or I cast and Skullclamp him away to draw some cards without a lot of value. I may look at cutting him from my list and see how much I miss him.
Some other points I want to make after re-reading the primer. I really like Outpost Siege. You don't play it because of the curve, which is understandable, but I would like to point out that it says, "Whenever a creature you control leaves the battlefield, ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player." This effect is pretty significate in my opinion as it means an opponent can't Cyclonic Rift your board without getting punched in the face. It's also nice to gain the ability to target creature or players as the other options Krenko typically run only hit players. Additionally, you can get some card advantage off it in a pinch but I have never used it for that.
Also, I used to run Sword of the Paruns but I really never liked it over Staff of Domination. I pulled the equipment out and replaced it as soon as I could get a copy of the latter. The Staff gives you options in a limited color. The "Tap a creature" ability has been relevant for me on more than one occasion. Also, once you are able to make infinite mana, but can't close out the game due to lack of a passive or direct damage enabler OR lack of haste, you can pour that mana into drawing what you need to draw to win. Overall, I feel like the Staff is better for an untap effect due to the versatility it provides. At the vary least I think it should be mentioned in the Primer as an option for people looking to build a Combo Krenko deck.
First, I have too hard a time getting Anger into my graveyard, at least in the first fourish turns when I really want to, and I found my early builds (one of which included Anger) were too diluted in the non-Goblin arena, making it sometimes hard to recover from a wrath with Krenko. Second, there isn't a whole lot of enchantment hate in my meta, so my enchantments tend to be safe, and I have enough early game haste enablers anyway. It's mostly an issue of "this is good, but where do I slot it?", you know?
Thanks for the note on Outpost Siege... it never occurred to me that it isn't a true death trigger. I'll have to look at it again!
Sword of the Paruns vs Staff of Domination is a budget issue. I'll get one in there eventually.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
In: Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves, Goblin King, Staff of Domination
Out: Price of Glory, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Piledriver, Sword of the Paruns
Reasoning: It was becoming clear that Krenko (and a few other goblins) needed more spot removal protection than they were getting. While the deck could recover from losing certain key elements, having that extra bit of haste and protection has come in handy on a couple occasions already. Piledriver is out because it's typically DOA, the few times it has come through or been a good distraction isn't enough to justify the slot. Replaced with Goblin King, which is a nice Lord and with Blood Moon makes an aggro strategy essentially unstoppable. Price of Glory just made me a target. Sword of the Paruns has been upgraded to Staff of Domination. For the first untap, Sword costs 3 more than Staff. The extra cost for using staff is offset by the infinite mana strategies and the ability to untap multiple creatures.
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser is a windmill slam into this deck. I'll have a full CN2 update ready once the full spoiler is up on Monday.
I'm also considering removing at least Splinter Twin from the deck. I rarely ever use it, and it feels a lot more win-more, I don't enjoy playing it if I do use it. I'd rather get something else in that would be fun to play.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
The main problem I have with Lightning Greaves is that you can't use certain untap effects with it equipped to Krenko. You can always just move it back and forth if you want to; but then you are opening him up to removal. Have you considered just running Shunt instead as it can just redirect that spot removal to a new target OR let you just use your opponents Time Stretch? Other considerations are the typical Fork, Reverberate, Reiterate, or Wild Ricochet but those only copy and don't protect him. Personally I just let him eat removal and recast since there are multiple haste enablers, but again, meta-dependent.
How do you feel about Goblin Gardener and/or Goblin Settler? Tutorable LD seems really solid, but I'm on the fence about it being a corner case most times. There are only about five lands I feel must get blown up, and only one that really stops us (Glacial Chasm) which mean just being conservative with our Strip Mine is probably enough. There is something to be said for throwing a Splinter Twin on either though...but then it feels like I'm justifying a card for another card.
On to the other stuff! The beauty of greaves with Krenko is that I can always give him haste to create tokens, then move greaves to one of those tokens when I'm ready for a combo. Shunt is fine, but I can't really see a time where I would use it too much, I eat a lot more wraths than spot removal.
As for Land Destruction, I play in a group that operates on points. Given the group, there isn't a huge call for Land Destruction but I can see the need for some land spot removal. Our group penalizes destroying more than half an opponents lands (taken cumulatively), so it's usually not worth the risk, and ghost quarter or strip mine can usually take care of business when problem lands show up.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
That being said, I have edited my list to run Scroll Rack to get card advantage between that and Madblind Mountain but I really have no idea what to cut for Reforge the Soul at this point as the list is very good as is in my opinion. I thought about dropping Nim Deathmantle, but as I've said, I found one Wheel effect to be enough and I can always wish for another.
Edit: I do like Reforge the Soul in UR or BR; it's always so nice to Vampiric Tutor at the EOT into a Wheel on your draw step
Both of those are fine, if you're looking at a longer game.
What I am thinking now is possibly including Chandra, Flamecaller, which gives me a bit more one-sided wheel effect (but still useful if my hand is full of land) and a wrath effect when needed.
Enough people have suggested it that I'll look into it. The problem is that Fervor curves into a T4 Krenko, while Anger does not.
That's a great idea. I was going to look into re-incorporating it, and it's even the same CMC. It'll probably be in the my next update, once CN2 is out.
Yeah, and while those are all perfectly valid options, and I do pull shenanigans like that in other decks, I do really like the way my deck runs right now, and to swap in enough to include those effects would take away from the very aggressive early game strategy I have going right now.
Thanks for both of your input!
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath