New Thalia seems good but I'm on the fence. Making fetchlands enter tapped is REALLY GOOD, but on 3 mana chances are your opponents already have a few lands and an accelerant.
I'll DEFINITELY be running Eldritch Evolution (spoiled today). At 1GG, I don't think it's busted, but I think it's very well suited for Karador. 75% of my creatures are cmc 1-3, and 90% are cmc 1-5. The ability to sac a dork/hatebear to get the last piece of an infinite pair, or Academy Rector/Linvala for Living Plane... it seems too flexible to not run. Sorcery and sacrificing a creature on cast are certainly downsides but I'd be surprised if it wasn't worth it.
The new Thalia, Heretic Cathar enables us a much better tempo play overall since we can bring her out turn 2 with a mana dork turn 1. Playing her enables the stax to begin much quicker. As for eldritch evolution... I can't wait to combo off out of nowhere
Edit: Good for mirror matches and any creature heavy decks such as Yisan.
I'll give the new Thalia a shot, too. Yesterday Derevi hosed my pod with Root Maze, so based on that experience, she will be a great addition!
The problem is, I had both Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Root Maze in my opening hand in that game. After you Forced my t1 Chrome Mox, I could have simply cast her on turn two - instead I played Metamorph copying someone's Wood Elves, fetched Tropical Island and dropped Root Maze anyway, because it's an order of magnitude better than Thalia. If I remember correctly, you had Scrubland, two Islands, Mana Crypt, Orhov Signet and Mox Opal - Thalia affects only one of those, while Root Maze affects all of them.
Edit: I nearly forgot that you also had Helm of Awakening on the table with Sensei's Divining Top in hand, ready to dig for Future Sight - except that this combo doesn't work under Root Maze, so you had to abandon it. Again, Thalia wouldn't stop you there, while Root Maze did.
Anyone play this is dual commander? my meren decks and jarad decks just lost the necrotic ooze combo so looking to tweak this to 1 v 1 in the short term. Initial thoughts were to go back to the faster combo plan and add more lands.
I have yet to get my hand on the new cards. I am very excited or both EE and new Thalia but I'm wondering if anyone has found a solid choice for replacement yet in their testing or is it still very much up in the air?
So the main post hasn't been updated since September 2015. Are there any changes to it that would make it more current? What cards came out in the last 3 sets that would find a spot in here?
I'm also in the camp of loving Eldritch Evolution.
Any thoughts on the Linvala/Elesh Norn + Living Plane combo for this list? It seems like yet another reliable backup that can be tutored for rather easily. Does the deck generally not struggle to get the Pattern of Rebirth engine online?
EDIT: looking back a few pages, it seems like you all have been talking about the LP interaction quite a bit. Would you all mind sharing your lists, gma and 4zuresky?
Keats and Cobblepott both have links to their lists under their posts, similar to you Riven. The Living plane has been a back up wincon for a little while now, with some ?most? of us running Sun Titan + Altar of Dementia + Enabler as a third potential combo plan.
Still testing Thalia and Eldritch Evolution, but I was wondering... do you guys still like Grim Haruspex? In all my days of playing Karador, I've never "gone off" with it, in fact I think I've played it like twice. Definitely not a card I've ever tutored for. I know it's part of some convoluted backup wincon if Blood Artist is exiled, but is that really necessary with Living Plane being another backup wincon?
I've always really loved the Haruspex, but I also play a slightly slower deck in a less cutthroat meta. I frequently, "go off" with it and Bloodghast. Also, I do LOVE having a play that means I draw 2 or three if my mana dorks get wrath'd.
Fair enough, I'll keep the Haruspex in for now. I'd say my meta is pretty low on pinpoint removal, so my Blood Artist isn't frequently removed. Either I'm being locked out of the game or I'm locking everyone else out. Although I actually just moved so my new meta could be very different.
So far Eldritch has been fantastic. Twice now I've been able to EE my academy rector into linvala, pulling out plane. I can definitely see the potential for swapping out Birthing Pod. I see that Yisan has managed to make it into the list, has anyone else tried it?
I was curious about Yisan as well. I feel like there are better tutors, even that put a creature into play, if we want to do that route and he is much slower than the rest of the deck seems to want to be. I'm a little confused about his addition, without testing him, because he just doesn't seem to fit.
I really like the new Thalia, personally, and I think she can disrupt some things like Yisan decks, Kiki-Jiki, and just generally slow people down, especially with the greedy mana bases that tend to run around in competitive EDH.
This seems to be a great play but kinda mana hungry one (3WWGG). I assume you risked Rector first and nobody had a PtE/StP for it so you could follow up with Evolution?
Sacrificing a creature is a part of Eldritch Evolution cost. Your opponents can counter the Rector or counter the Evolution, but if you managed to resolve Rector and then you cast EE, PtE/StP do nothing here - you'll be able to search for your enchantment anyway.
Yes there is a turn rotation where an answer can occur but there are other things going on, and especially when people haven't seen the EE into WIN before they don't often waste a precious removal BEFORE something hits the table that can use it.
On the hand, when you don't have EE you can still lay her down and either soak a free exile effect, or force them to scramble in fear of instawin. It isn't perfect by any means but I think it has merit.
This is an amazing thread, and is inspiring me to build Karador as my competitive general. All of the local tournaments that I play in are 1v1, so I was wondering what you guys would recommend changing from the latest multiplayer Cobblepots list? (If anything) I also don't think I can justify buying an imperial seal, so what would a good alternative be? My meta consists of all of the most popular CEDH generals, all tuned for 1v1, so it can be very brutal.
Grim Tutor is at least a little cheaper ($) and gets it to your hand, though it's 3 mana. Dark Petition is like another Demonic Tutor if triple black is useful to you, but the 5 mana up front investment won't help you early.
I saw on Cobblepotts' tapped out list that he added Thalia, Heretic Carhar, which seems like a good card to try out.
In most 1v1 scenarios, I'd opt for Anafenza hatebears over Boonweaver Karador. Cheap discard and removal is very good in 1v1, and beatdown is actually an option. Something like this: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13190&d=277275&f=EDH
EDIT: If you're dead set on Karador though, just modify your deck more in that direction. You should definitely be running Thoughtseize and Inquisition.
I appreciate all of the suggestions! Most of the 1v1 lists I am finding are French, where this is traditional EDH rules/bans, which gives me access to much better cards. I do think Anafenza hatebears could also be a fun option, so I will do some testing with that. For Karador, when you mention speeding it up, would that essentially be going back to the original list, and dropping the whole stax approach?
Well, personally I don't have an Imperial Seal and I play paper so that's likely never going to happen. I had put Altar of Bone in its place, but I think this could earn that slot instead. Alternatively, it probably is a bit of a better fit instead of new Thalia in the deck. Certainly more impactful at 3.
UBR Jeleva Grixis Storm
WBG Karador Boonweaver Combo
WUBRG Food Chain Tazri
I'll DEFINITELY be running Eldritch Evolution (spoiled today). At 1GG, I don't think it's busted, but I think it's very well suited for Karador. 75% of my creatures are cmc 1-3, and 90% are cmc 1-5. The ability to sac a dork/hatebear to get the last piece of an infinite pair, or Academy Rector/Linvala for Living Plane... it seems too flexible to not run. Sorcery and sacrificing a creature on cast are certainly downsides but I'd be surprised if it wasn't worth it.
Edit: Good for mirror matches and any creature heavy decks such as Yisan.
UBR Jeleva Grixis Storm
WBG Karador Boonweaver Combo
WUBRG Food Chain Tazri
The problem is, I had both Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Root Maze in my opening hand in that game. After you Forced my t1 Chrome Mox, I could have simply cast her on turn two - instead I played Metamorph copying someone's Wood Elves, fetched Tropical Island and dropped Root Maze anyway, because it's an order of magnitude better than Thalia. If I remember correctly, you had Scrubland, two Islands, Mana Crypt, Orhov Signet and Mox Opal - Thalia affects only one of those, while Root Maze affects all of them.
Edit: I nearly forgot that you also had Helm of Awakening on the table with Sensei's Divining Top in hand, ready to dig for Future Sight - except that this combo doesn't work under Root Maze, so you had to abandon it. Again, Thalia wouldn't stop you there, while Root Maze did.
GWU Derevi, the Prison Queen UWG
Selfless Soul
1W - Rare
Creature - Spirit
Flying
Sacrifice Selfless Soul: Creatures you control gain indestructible until end of turn.
2/1
I'm also in the camp of loving Eldritch Evolution.
Any thoughts on the Linvala/Elesh Norn + Living Plane combo for this list? It seems like yet another reliable backup that can be tutored for rather easily. Does the deck generally not struggle to get the Pattern of Rebirth engine online?
EDIT: looking back a few pages, it seems like you all have been talking about the LP interaction quite a bit. Would you all mind sharing your lists, gma and 4zuresky?
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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I really like the new Thalia, personally, and I think she can disrupt some things like Yisan decks, Kiki-Jiki, and just generally slow people down, especially with the greedy mana bases that tend to run around in competitive EDH.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Sacrificing a creature is a part of Eldritch Evolution cost. Your opponents can counter the Rector or counter the Evolution, but if you managed to resolve Rector and then you cast EE, PtE/StP do nothing here - you'll be able to search for your enchantment anyway.
GWU Derevi, the Prison Queen UWG
Where do you get that double white requirement from? Academy Rector costs ...
GWU Derevi, the Prison Queen UWG
On the hand, when you don't have EE you can still lay her down and either soak a free exile effect, or force them to scramble in fear of instawin. It isn't perfect by any means but I think it has merit.
Thanks,
I saw on Cobblepotts' tapped out list that he added Thalia, Heretic Carhar, which seems like a good card to try out.
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
EDIT: If you're dead set on Karador though, just modify your deck more in that direction. You should definitely be running Thoughtseize and Inquisition.
I appreciate all of the suggestions! Most of the 1v1 lists I am finding are French, where this is traditional EDH rules/bans, which gives me access to much better cards. I do think Anafenza hatebears could also be a fun option, so I will do some testing with that. For Karador, when you mention speeding it up, would that essentially be going back to the original list, and dropping the whole stax approach?
UBR Jeleva Grixis Storm
WBG Karador Boonweaver Combo
WUBRG Food Chain Tazri
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU