Much appreciated. I posted my recent thoughts based on my experience from the last week. I literally had removal pointed at me one game every single turn I attacked anyone at all. I kept going, but my City of Solitude got trashed so yeah. Aggro troubles.
The recursion package is what I'm looking for now. I want to run them out of removal or make their removal dead. More importantly though, I want to get through in the face of resistance.
The latter doesn't ACTUALLY stop interaction, especially when a player's life is on the line. They'll get hurt by it, but we don't want them hurt. We want them dead.
OP will not be updated for a bit because I am doing very rapid testing to try and address recent shortcomings.
-Chain Reaction: 4 mana is a lot and we don't often have the luxury of setting ourselves back when we're the aggro
- Chord of Calling: Costs too much. Only been useful when behinf
- Arbor Elf: Crop Rotation is better when you pack Ancient Tomb
-Reforge the Soul: Wheeling twice gives your opponents way too many answers
-Wilderness Elemental: Not reliable in 4-person games. Doesn't hit hard enough
- Price of Glory: When they NEED to kill your guy, they will do it.
ADDS
+ Flameshadow Conjuring: Goes nuts with several of our threats and prevents over-commitment
+ Feldon of the Third Path: Cheap repeatable recursion that makes us not lose huge tempo and CA
+ Giant Adephage More synergy with the card now.
+ Mimic Vat: Cheap repeatable recursion that messes with opponents.
+ Crop Rotation: Ramp AND trample and tower fetch.
+ Elvish Piper: Speed up the deck by cheating mana
Update: WHOOPS. My list was accidentally 103 cards (with certain cards not cut from the list in exchange for the cards that replaced them). It has now been corrected. I cut a forest so that the list is at 36 land.
Update: WHOOPS. My list was accidentally 103 cards (with certain cards not cut from the list in exchange for the cards that replaced them). It has now been corrected. I cut a forest so that the list is at 36 land.
I'm at 15 ramp spells. (sylvan scrying now counts!) I think that's actually a little much. I can cut one. A 3 ramp is a preferable cut.
I think your only real choices are either Cultivate or Kodama's Reach at that cmc, because I personally find Somberwald Sage too valuable to cut. Reach and Cultivate are worth two mana where Somberwald is worth three. Although the first two thin the deck if that's important.
I'm leaning towards cutting both honestly. (Keeping Somberwald Sage)
I'm backing away from turn 3 Xenagos deployments because the speed at which I play out my deck is not going to be important if I can't keep my attacks sustainable.
Turn 4 actions with either ways to blank or absorb removal are going to be what I'm doing going forward.
Also, one thing I didn't mention is that Ancient Tomb itself count as a ramp slot if you draw into it. The life loss is going to matter, but saving three-four spaces on ramp for other things is a humongous upgrade to the deck.
Also with library manipulation helping me I haven't been running into too many issues hitting land drops, making the extra land you get out of those cards less impactful.
Still running Decimate not so much because it's a 4 for 1 but because it's the closest thing to a third Vindicate effect that I have and it's less awkward in this deck than it would be in decks without an indestructible god leading it.
Speed is extremely helpful. If you can take out some threatening players before they properly "set up", you're going to have an easier time. The speed at which Xenagod comes roaring out of the gate is one of the deck's main advantages and whilst it's commendable that you're planning for good late game presence, it would be quite silly to ignore what is arguably the commander's main strength
Do you ever get stuck with a bunch of huge uncastable creatures in your hand? It seems like this deck wants some of the bigger ramp spells green has to offer, like Skyshroud Claim, Explosive Vegetation, Hunting Wilds, and Ranger's Path. Here are some more cards that could be good:
I'm actually playing too much ramp at the present moment and need to cut some. I never have issues hardcasting threats. In fact, I need the space to throw in cards that will keep me relevant to the late game.
Out of all those cards listed, I'd play Sneak and Defense.
In any case, I'm only giving up a turn. Turn 4 big swings are already as fast as the deck can get. And sometimes you start doing your attacks on turn 5 anyway because you don't always hit 2x ramp. The deck has room for these pieces.
Lastly, I want a better threat than Inferno Titan. It's been decent, but I want to try something better.
Only got one game with Holistic Wisdom in, but it won me the game. In a field full of heavy green decks, recycling Blasphemous Act (by trading off ramp spells) with a Malignus out is pretty good. Especially when you kill the person with a Constant Mists that won't do anything against it! I was even able to trade basic lands for utility lands that got trashed.
Lastly, I want a better threat than Inferno Titan. It's been decent, but I want to try something better.
I've been pleasantly surprised with Inferno Titan, mostly for the ability to tag an enemy planeswalker for 6 or more when needed. Ugin, the Spirit Dragon poses some threat with his -X, but Titan can take care of the rest upon ETB. Karn Liberated is a bigger problem if not dealt with, but again Titan washes it away after the -3. If you're looking for a bigger threat, consider Dragonlord Atarka. As a 8/8 for 7 with two evasive abilities, Atarka 2.0 is aggressively costed and ready for beating. It also performs a similar role to Inferno Titan, taking out opposing small blockers and planeswalkers, and much like Inferno Titan interacts well with reanimator effects like Mimic Vat and Feldon of the Third Path. This would also theoretically increase the effectiveness of Atarka, World Render's passive. To a lesser extent, Bogardan Hellkite would work as a weaker alternative.
Inferno Titan has the upside of being pretty solid early and with doubling effects but needs trample help late game. At least it has a firebreathing sink, which is a plus over Dragonlord Atarka.
Thoughts on Omnath, Locus of Rage? Doesn't seem fit for my build, but is potentially testable in the sac-based Jusstice list.
Thoughts on Omnath, Locus of Rage? Doesn't seem fit for my build, but is potentially testable in the sac-based Jusstice list.
Unfortunately I'm not sure that Gruul Omnath has a place in Xenagod, or at least in mine. Let's break it down. A 5/5 for 3RRGG with no evasion makes it fail on the Terra Stomper scale. The other two abilities are cool, getting more use out of your lands and supplying blockers that also have a chance of bolting something. Unfortunately the tokens don't have trample either, though you could grant it via Nylea, God of the Hunt. I'd compare it to both Rampaging Baloths and Borborygmos Enraged. Rampaging Baloths has built in trample and makes smaller tokens, but still triggers Elemental Bond/Garruk's Packleader for 1 less mana. Borborygmos 2.0, while costing 1 more, also has built in trample and allows you to bolt on demand with the excess lands you draw off of your burst card draw spells like Greater Good. Tis a shame, I like the art on it.
I don't think there's any way Omnath competes with either Titania, Protector of Argoth or Stalking Vengeance, either one. Getting those two effects in one package does not offset the fact it's a 5/5 as a 7-drop, no hexproof or evasion. I just don't see it as a strong card, in a general sense.
Well, someone else in my group built Roidnath. It looks fun and runs both Titania and Stalking Vengeance.
I'm also encountering a lot more hate for this deck packed in decks in my local meta. Just yesterday I saw someone run Fate Forgotten, which is only something you play if indestructible gods and artifacts are REALLY a problem. As for me, I'll be temporarily running Deglamer over Hull Breach for this reason.
The recursion suite tests well when I draw it. I had someone shoot a Malignus about to lethal them only to make a trampling Feldon of the Third Path copy ram into him next turn. Mimic Vat is a card people play the hell around, and rightfully so. Haven't drawn it often enough.
Lastly, Holistic Wisdom has tested very well. My meta is getting rampy green deck heavy so I may still need my extra boardwipe back since I kept recurring Blasphemous Act against those decks. The good news is that if it makes people lean towards boardwipes rather than extra point removal, that helps my deck achieve its objectives.
Oh.
I HAVE ESTABLISHED A NEW RECORD-KEEPING SECTION. It's something that most lists don't do, but figured I should do for my amusement and that of others. Basically what you do is keep records of the most X you have done with X in one turn. That can range from cards drawn to the number of Eldrazi spawns created by Rapacious One in a single turn. The only ones I don't remember have unwritten records that I will update frequently as I play the deck.
Also, feel free to post your own silly records for this deck.
ETB regrowth and on death you can CHOOSE to exile it to regrowth another card.
5/4
It's a six drop and doesn't have trample but it's big enough that you can try and force people's removal on it. Also it's an easy conduit for card draw. Best buds with Flameshadow Conjuring. I think it is worth trying.
Also I've been testing this deck under different circumstances and it has been doing very well. I had one game where early City of Solitude shut down two blue players and I had my unanswerable kill set up until someone played Possibility Storm. Well.... that would answer it.
9/11 EDIT: New record for "most attacks steps taken in one turn": 5
5 power feels like the cut off for a fatty to me so he's big enough to be threatening and the cost seems appropriate for what you get but I'd go with something a little more proactive. Good with Sneak Attack.
ETB regrowth and on death you can CHOOSE to exile it to regrowth another card.
5/4
It's a six drop and doesn't have trample but it's big enough that you can try and force people's removal on it. Also it's an easy conduit for card draw. Best buds with Flameshadow Conjuring. I think it is worth trying.
I like it as a quasi-double Eternal Witness, will most likely replace Creeping Renaissance in my build. I agree with you as a draw conduit, this guy is just begging to be sacced to Greater Good.
The two "worst" fatties: Managorger Hydra - Very high variance. Awesome early. A bit less awesome late. Inferno Titan - Still quite solid, but I think we can do better
Explore (I have a land count that can support this)
The new super E-wit
Any other cards that might seem good as replacements? I know that there are more damaging fatties out there, but all of them either require wolf run support or cheat support in this build. Vorapede or Realm Seekers? The latter hits very unreliably early, but can tutor up its own evasion and use it if we are on at least six lands.
Dragonlord Atarka? It has mass evasion and clears out a fair number of tokens, but doesn't offer too much else.
The two "worst" fatties: Managorger Hydra - Very high variance. Awesome early. A bit less awesome late. Inferno Titan - Still quite solid, but I think we can do better
Explore (I have a land count that can support this)
The new super E-wit
Any other cards that might seem good as replacements? I know that there are more damaging fatties out there, but all of them either require wolf run support or cheat support in this build. Vorapede or Realm Seekers? The latter hits very unreliably early, but can tutor up its own evasion and use it if we are on at least six lands.
Dragonlord Atarka? It has mass evasion and clears out a fair number of tokens, but doesn't offer too much else.
Not sure what you're testing in place of Cultivate, but I do recommend giving Explore a try. It isn't super awesome good, but certain necessary utilites in EDH usually aren't (Harmonize, Ramp, Mana Rocks, etc.). I have found it is useful in most stages of the game, especially if you need to unclog your hand after a big draw spell.
Vorapde has shown decent results so far. The resiliency is nice and like Woodfall Primus you can double dip with Greater Good. Vigilance is great against counterswings, too. You don't seem to have an issue with fixing, so the triple G shouldn't pose an issue.
I would argue that Realm Seekers is a meta inclusion. The more draw power your group has, the better Seekers is. Everyone likes to draw cards, and I have yet to drop Seekers for less than 15/15. It can fetch it's own evasion, but also other utility lands if you need them. It requires some work to get going, so don't think of it as a beater. Realm Seekers should be treated as a utility creature first and a beater second.
Unfortunately I can't say much for it, but maybe test Dragonlord Atarka in place of Inferno Titan as it offers a similar ETB effect but also has two forms of evasion and has two more P/T for only one more mana. I am planning on picking one up myself, but the price ($) is pretty high at the moment. Sorry for the lack of card tags, posting from a phone.
We simply need more Siege Behemoths. This card does a VERY good impression of one. Evasion + Resilience together is a rare trait to see and we will take any solid ones we can find.
I honestly don't miss Inferno Titan. He's one of the better ones to lead off with but gets so much worse after that.
I'm adding another 7 drop but Hexproof makes such a world of difference in this deck. My targets look at cards like Siege Behemoth and go "well, how the hell am I dealing with that?"
In certain scenarios where I need fast late-game kills it can be marginal but then Inferno titan is even more so.
I'm cutting Bane of Progress until I need him again. For right now I don't and greenwarden can act as a nice addition to the recursion package.
As for gameplay, I've been getting focus fired. I've gotten Mindslavered just so I don't get access to my protection enchantments. Having enough mana without repeatedly eating removal for days to kill my tempo is really getting more difficult. I really wish I owned cards like Sneak Attack now. Elvish Piper is good but I only have one.
Mimic Vat is good. Not only for keeping your guys alive but also for making opponents play crazily around it.
This is just a small update stating that I'm testing Realm Seekers and temporarily shelving Moldgraf Monstrosity. The change is not yet declared permanent. In some games, you can effectively treat Realm Seekers as a six-mana Malignus that tutors its own evasion (and helps hit land drops!). I hope it works out this way. I'm aware that it doesn't have built in evasion, but sometimes we need to have more options that can deal upwards of 30-40 damage in one shot very quickly and unfortunately I don't have the cheaty cards needed to play the likes of Worldspine Wurm. Also, it will teach my opponents to always leave up chump blockers!
As for the games, the mana consumption is now the biggest constraint. Unfortunately, I need Sneak Attack and Natural Order levels of cheat power to bypass this. I may consider adding back a ramp spell. But not if I can get my hands on those two.
I feel that too many of my crazier plays hinge on the back of my crazy mana generator fatties. However, I've been liking the current extra combat density that happens to synergize very well with those cards.
Glad to see you're still writing up on Xenagod. I've recently taken the plunge into Modern (missed my copies of Goblin Guide I guess), however I've still been competing in the EDH league at my LGS regularly. I'm still a big fan of Realm Seekers but it has the same problem as Multani, Maro-Sorcerer in that when Realm Seekers comes into your hand late game and you need to play it, its less effective. Even if one player has been eliminated, Seekers gets shorted on it's overall effectiveness. The P/T will almost always be less than it would if it came down mid-game, and later on you should have the desired lands/trample enablers you need to make your beats count. Don't get me wrong, Realm Seekers is still phenomenal as your first or second beater drop and this reason alone is why I continue to use it. When its good, its really good.
I do agree with your statement of mana consumption. In my opinion, without the aid of Sneak Attack and other cheat into play cards, Xenagod decks want to play beaters and when you aren't playing beaters you should be ramping. Simple and effective right? It should be, but as I'm sure you have noticed you also have to keep a steady ramp:beater ratio in order for the deck to do what you want it to. I prefer to lean higher on the ramp side of the ratio so I always have something to do. This is just a personal preference, but if I'm not doing at least one thing a turn I'm not having as much fun. I'll play rampfatty.dec all day, but if you don't have your ramp you aren't playing your beaters. Mana Geyser is a great one shot effect to raise your mana up to absurd amounts and would play well with firebreathing creatures and getting to use the full effects of Savage Beating and Sieze the Day. I'd still rate it lower than Savage Ventmaw and Rapacious One though because those cards complete both of the basic tasks you want to do in one card. Against control players, the Geyser isn't going to do much work since they also play on your turn. If you find yourself playing against a lot of tapout style decks give it a try. What are your thoughts on Dramatic Entrance?
Yup. The deck is quite hungry and at the very least we can recognize it.
In any case, I don't think the mana savings on Dramatic Entrance is enough to justify using it. I can see using it on end steps to try and overload countermagic, but the real kicker is that you can only cheat out green creatures with it. I'd probably play dedicated hate like Pyroblast for forcing stuff through counters before playing this for that purpose. Also, yes, Mana Geyser is pretty bad against draw-go, but I can say that this deck in its current configuration (or even as a whole) is pretty bad against that archetype. We are losing horribly in the tempo exchange when our 5+ drops get countered or killed repeatably by removal or counterspells that cost 2-3 mana. We have cards that can help if they get through, but you need to be able to draw them when you need them and with the exception of Dosan it is not easy to just grab them at will.
Lastly, I'm revamping the ramp suite a tiny bit more. I'm thinking of testing cards like Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth. The idea is that they are 1 mana accelerants that A) Work on turn 1. B) Don't die to sweepers like mana dorks do, and C) Most importantly, they pay for themselves when you need to unload cards quickly due to overdrawing. Many of my heavy dork draws I've been finding are fast but fragile gameplans, and I would want to leave only treespeaker and birds as our 1-drop accelerants. I'm leaning towards the latter rather than the former because sprawl requires a forest we may not have on turn 1. The mana fixing is a non-issue in this deck.
The downsides are that it is rather annoying to keep track of devotion with these sorts of cards because they hide under your lands and they are obviously bad against land destruction.
I'm adding more content to the original post. I'm rather bad at organization in general so it usually takes several tries for me to make something reasonably readable. As of right now I'm very close to being ready to submit this for primer status. I'm gonna say it took quite a while to get here.
Lastly, I have not gotten blown out casting something conditional by a removal spell for a very long time. People will burn their removal when attacked (if they have it) because taking 12-30 damage is not an option if you can help it.
I'm probably cutting Chain Reaction, Reforge the Soul, Chord of Calling, Arbor Elf, Wilderness Elemental and Price of Glory...
The recursion package is what I'm looking for now. I want to run them out of removal or make their removal dead. More importantly though, I want to get through in the face of resistance.
The latter doesn't ACTUALLY stop interaction, especially when a player's life is on the line. They'll get hurt by it, but we don't want them hurt. We want them dead.
OP will not be updated for a bit because I am doing very rapid testing to try and address recent shortcomings.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
-Chain Reaction: 4 mana is a lot and we don't often have the luxury of setting ourselves back when we're the aggro
- Chord of Calling: Costs too much. Only been useful when behinf
- Arbor Elf: Crop Rotation is better when you pack Ancient Tomb
-Reforge the Soul: Wheeling twice gives your opponents way too many answers
-Wilderness Elemental: Not reliable in 4-person games. Doesn't hit hard enough
- Price of Glory: When they NEED to kill your guy, they will do it.
ADDS
+ Flameshadow Conjuring: Goes nuts with several of our threats and prevents over-commitment
+ Feldon of the Third Path: Cheap repeatable recursion that makes us not lose huge tempo and CA
+ Giant Adephage More synergy with the card now.
+ Mimic Vat: Cheap repeatable recursion that messes with opponents.
+ Crop Rotation: Ramp AND trample and tower fetch.
+ Elvish Piper: Speed up the deck by cheating mana
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Currently testing: Relentless Assault and Holistic Wisdom
I'm at 15 ramp spells. (sylvan scrying now counts!) I think that's actually a little much. I can cut one. A 3 ramp is a preferable cut.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I'm backing away from turn 3 Xenagos deployments because the speed at which I play out my deck is not going to be important if I can't keep my attacks sustainable.
Turn 4 actions with either ways to blank or absorb removal are going to be what I'm doing going forward.
Also, one thing I didn't mention is that Ancient Tomb itself count as a ramp slot if you draw into it. The life loss is going to matter, but saving three-four spaces on ramp for other things is a humongous upgrade to the deck.
Also with library manipulation helping me I haven't been running into too many issues hitting land drops, making the extra land you get out of those cards less impactful.
Still running Decimate not so much because it's a 4 for 1 but because it's the closest thing to a third Vindicate effect that I have and it's less awkward in this deck than it would be in decks without an indestructible god leading it.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Out of all those cards listed, I'd play Sneak and Defense.
Pattern of Rebirth is fine for lists with large numbers of sac outlets.
In any case, I'm only giving up a turn. Turn 4 big swings are already as fast as the deck can get. And sometimes you start doing your attacks on turn 5 anyway because you don't always hit 2x ramp. The deck has room for these pieces.
Lastly, I want a better threat than Inferno Titan. It's been decent, but I want to try something better.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Only got one game with Holistic Wisdom in, but it won me the game. In a field full of heavy green decks, recycling Blasphemous Act (by trading off ramp spells) with a Malignus out is pretty good. Especially when you kill the person with a Constant Mists that won't do anything against it! I was even able to trade basic lands for utility lands that got trashed.
- two basic lands
+ taiga
+ fire-lit thicket
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Thoughts on Omnath, Locus of Rage? Doesn't seem fit for my build, but is potentially testable in the sac-based Jusstice list.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Unfortunately I'm not sure that Gruul Omnath has a place in Xenagod, or at least in mine. Let's break it down. A 5/5 for 3RRGG with no evasion makes it fail on the Terra Stomper scale. The other two abilities are cool, getting more use out of your lands and supplying blockers that also have a chance of bolting something. Unfortunately the tokens don't have trample either, though you could grant it via Nylea, God of the Hunt. I'd compare it to both Rampaging Baloths and Borborygmos Enraged. Rampaging Baloths has built in trample and makes smaller tokens, but still triggers Elemental Bond/Garruk's Packleader for 1 less mana. Borborygmos 2.0, while costing 1 more, also has built in trample and allows you to bolt on demand with the excess lands you draw off of your burst card draw spells like Greater Good. Tis a shame, I like the art on it.
I'm also encountering a lot more hate for this deck packed in decks in my local meta. Just yesterday I saw someone run Fate Forgotten, which is only something you play if indestructible gods and artifacts are REALLY a problem. As for me, I'll be temporarily running Deglamer over Hull Breach for this reason.
The recursion suite tests well when I draw it. I had someone shoot a Malignus about to lethal them only to make a trampling Feldon of the Third Path copy ram into him next turn.
Mimic Vat is a card people play the hell around, and rightfully so. Haven't drawn it often enough.
Lastly, Holistic Wisdom has tested very well. My meta is getting rampy green deck heavy so I may still need my extra boardwipe back since I kept recurring Blasphemous Act against those decks. The good news is that if it makes people lean towards boardwipes rather than extra point removal, that helps my deck achieve its objectives.
Oh.
I HAVE ESTABLISHED A NEW RECORD-KEEPING SECTION. It's something that most lists don't do, but figured I should do for my amusement and that of others. Basically what you do is keep records of the most X you have done with X in one turn. That can range from cards drawn to the number of Eldrazi spawns created by Rapacious One in a single turn. The only ones I don't remember have unwritten records that I will update frequently as I play the deck.
Also, feel free to post your own silly records for this deck.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
4GG Greenwarden of Murasa:
ETB regrowth and on death you can CHOOSE to exile it to regrowth another card.
5/4
It's a six drop and doesn't have trample but it's big enough that you can try and force people's removal on it. Also it's an easy conduit for card draw. Best buds with Flameshadow Conjuring. I think it is worth trying.
Also I've been testing this deck under different circumstances and it has been doing very well. I had one game where early City of Solitude shut down two blue players and I had my unanswerable kill set up until someone played Possibility Storm. Well.... that would answer it.
9/11 EDIT: New record for "most attacks steps taken in one turn": 5
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I like it as a quasi-double Eternal Witness, will most likely replace Creeping Renaissance in my build. I agree with you as a draw conduit, this guy is just begging to be sacced to Greater Good.
The two "worst" fatties:
Managorger Hydra - Very high variance. Awesome early. A bit less awesome late.
Inferno Titan - Still quite solid, but I think we can do better
Bane of Progress
One mana dork
Cultivate is already temporarily out for testing
Desired adds:
Explore (I have a land count that can support this)
The new super E-wit
Any other cards that might seem good as replacements? I know that there are more damaging fatties out there, but all of them either require wolf run support or cheat support in this build. Vorapede or Realm Seekers? The latter hits very unreliably early, but can tutor up its own evasion and use it if we are on at least six lands.
Dragonlord Atarka? It has mass evasion and clears out a fair number of tokens, but doesn't offer too much else.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Vorapde has shown decent results so far. The resiliency is nice and like Woodfall Primus you can double dip with Greater Good. Vigilance is great against counterswings, too. You don't seem to have an issue with fixing, so the triple G shouldn't pose an issue.
I would argue that Realm Seekers is a meta inclusion. The more draw power your group has, the better Seekers is. Everyone likes to draw cards, and I have yet to drop Seekers for less than 15/15. It can fetch it's own evasion, but also other utility lands if you need them. It requires some work to get going, so don't think of it as a beater. Realm Seekers should be treated as a utility creature first and a beater second.
Unfortunately I can't say much for it, but maybe test Dragonlord Atarka in place of Inferno Titan as it offers a similar ETB effect but also has two forms of evasion and has two more P/T for only one more mana. I am planning on picking one up myself, but the price ($) is pretty high at the moment. Sorry for the lack of card tags, posting from a phone.
7/6 trample hexproof for 7.
We simply need more Siege Behemoths. This card does a VERY good impression of one. Evasion + Resilience together is a rare trait to see and we will take any solid ones we can find.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
- Elvish Mystic
- Bane of Progress
+ Plated Crusher
+ Greenwarden of Murasa
+ Explore
I honestly don't miss Inferno Titan. He's one of the better ones to lead off with but gets so much worse after that.
I'm adding another 7 drop but Hexproof makes such a world of difference in this deck. My targets look at cards like Siege Behemoth and go "well, how the hell am I dealing with that?"
In certain scenarios where I need fast late-game kills it can be marginal but then Inferno titan is even more so.
I'm cutting Bane of Progress until I need him again. For right now I don't and greenwarden can act as a nice addition to the recursion package.
As for gameplay, I've been getting focus fired. I've gotten Mindslavered just so I don't get access to my protection enchantments. Having enough mana without repeatedly eating removal for days to kill my tempo is really getting more difficult. I really wish I owned cards like Sneak Attack now. Elvish Piper is good but I only have one.
Mimic Vat is good. Not only for keeping your guys alive but also for making opponents play crazily around it.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
As for the games, the mana consumption is now the biggest constraint. Unfortunately, I need Sneak Attack and Natural Order levels of cheat power to bypass this. I may consider adding back a ramp spell. But not if I can get my hands on those two.
I feel that too many of my crazier plays hinge on the back of my crazy mana generator fatties. However, I've been liking the current extra combat density that happens to synergize very well with those cards.
(NEW RECORDS: 34 +1/+1 counters with managorger hydra
8 Giant Adephages out at once!)
ANOTHER IDEA: Do I play Mana Geyser in this deck?
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I do agree with your statement of mana consumption. In my opinion, without the aid of Sneak Attack and other cheat into play cards, Xenagod decks want to play beaters and when you aren't playing beaters you should be ramping. Simple and effective right? It should be, but as I'm sure you have noticed you also have to keep a steady ramp:beater ratio in order for the deck to do what you want it to. I prefer to lean higher on the ramp side of the ratio so I always have something to do. This is just a personal preference, but if I'm not doing at least one thing a turn I'm not having as much fun. I'll play rampfatty.dec all day, but if you don't have your ramp you aren't playing your beaters. Mana Geyser is a great one shot effect to raise your mana up to absurd amounts and would play well with firebreathing creatures and getting to use the full effects of Savage Beating and Sieze the Day. I'd still rate it lower than Savage Ventmaw and Rapacious One though because those cards complete both of the basic tasks you want to do in one card. Against control players, the Geyser isn't going to do much work since they also play on your turn. If you find yourself playing against a lot of tapout style decks give it a try. What are your thoughts on Dramatic Entrance?
In any case, I don't think the mana savings on Dramatic Entrance is enough to justify using it. I can see using it on end steps to try and overload countermagic, but the real kicker is that you can only cheat out green creatures with it. I'd probably play dedicated hate like Pyroblast for forcing stuff through counters before playing this for that purpose. Also, yes, Mana Geyser is pretty bad against draw-go, but I can say that this deck in its current configuration (or even as a whole) is pretty bad against that archetype. We are losing horribly in the tempo exchange when our 5+ drops get countered or killed repeatably by removal or counterspells that cost 2-3 mana. We have cards that can help if they get through, but you need to be able to draw them when you need them and with the exception of Dosan it is not easy to just grab them at will.
Lastly, I'm revamping the ramp suite a tiny bit more. I'm thinking of testing cards like Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth. The idea is that they are 1 mana accelerants that A) Work on turn 1. B) Don't die to sweepers like mana dorks do, and C) Most importantly, they pay for themselves when you need to unload cards quickly due to overdrawing. Many of my heavy dork draws I've been finding are fast but fragile gameplans, and I would want to leave only treespeaker and birds as our 1-drop accelerants. I'm leaning towards the latter rather than the former because sprawl requires a forest we may not have on turn 1. The mana fixing is a non-issue in this deck.
The downsides are that it is rather annoying to keep track of devotion with these sorts of cards because they hide under your lands and they are obviously bad against land destruction.
I'm adding more content to the original post. I'm rather bad at organization in general so it usually takes several tries for me to make something reasonably readable. As of right now I'm very close to being ready to submit this for primer status. I'm gonna say it took quite a while to get here.
Lastly, I have not gotten blown out casting something conditional by a removal spell for a very long time. People will burn their removal when attacked (if they have it) because taking 12-30 damage is not an option if you can help it.
Oh yeah, my previous tests are done.
- Cultivate
- Decimate
+ Chain Reaction (I kinda need it back now)
+ Relentless Assault
AND I STILL CAN'T FIND a Spinerock Knoll. I haven't really been buying cards lately so I can't justify an online purchase of just a $2 card.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.