Not making Xenagod into a creature has saved my bacon multiple times and I seriously misplayed once by making Xenagos into a creature.
I'm actually considering a small landbase change. Swapping Skarrg, the Rage Pits for a Wasteland. Skarrg usually doesn't get activated at all, and being able to nuke Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, and Cabal Coffers is too good of a upside to ignore. Sometimes I don't always draw into the strip mine, so having a spare seems reasonable.
In observation, I also find card draw and Emrakul, the Promised End to be some of the best things I could hit in this deck. I've never had to struggle with casting Emrakul in the late game, and it has been worth the risk of having it stranded in my hand in a deck where you don't want this to happen. There is a risk, but there is big payoff for getting it to work. Before Eldritch Moon, this deck had a glaring weakness in its lategame at times, but when I get to pay 9 mana to essentially take out two players without them being able to stop me, I've had reasonable boosts in my late game winrate. It makes me sad that basically no one plays the card. That, and Frontier Siege..
I also have new reputations. Today I earned one where I managed to kill someone on multiple occasions from attacking them with a single Oracle of Mul Daya. This is to I guess go with my reputation of being forced to chump block with gigantic monsters at times. It has been confirmed that I have chump blocked with every non-indestructible Eldrazi titan. Yes, that includes Emrakul, the Aeons Torn from before the EDH days. You do not want to know how I got into that mess..
(the crazy part was that I still won that game where I chump blocked with the best beef in Magic)
This card right here is something special for us I believe. I found it in the latest command zone video as one of their most underrated cards. It's better than it looks and I'll explain how. Disrupt Decorum
Now, this card is at it's best in a meta with a decent number of creatures in it, but it's good as long as your meta isn't full of non-creature decks.
The floor of this card is: You will not be attacked during the this turn cycle, unless someone has haste abilities. Even then, it's unlikely as they will want to attack as they probably want a blocker up for inevitable counter swings. Even if no creatures die, all of our opponents' non-vigilant creatures will be tapped except for those played during that turn cycle. This means you will swing basically unimpeded into any opponent you want.
The ceiling is: You get everything on the floor plus possibly opponents killing each other off. Or, many creatures trade, commanders get sent back to the command zone. You rip open a defense or two because someone was forced to attack with their blocker. (Say a deathtoucher for instance.) If things go well, our opponents will not be in a position to retaliate well due to having lost creatures. It seems basically impossible not to touch some part of this ceiling every time the card is cast unless there are no creatures on the board except your own. If that's the case, we are already in a good position most likely, so we don't need to rely on this card.
I think the card looks bad on it's surface because the text is so simple, goad all creatures you don't control. When you really think about how that applies to an edh mid-late game and this deck, the card looks like a possible wincon.
Maybe it's not playable over some of the better double combat spells, but I don't have all of those yet. Room will be made for it somehow, hopefully, in my deck. If I get to cast it, you'll here about it.
Does verdurous gearhulk trigger Sarkhan's unsealing in the way you think? It says when you cast a creature, verdurous gearhulk has 4 power when cast, so it only activates the 4 direct damage clause. However, I do like Sarkhan's unsealing as a turn 4 play before xenagos, that's pretty cool.
Also Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma seems alright. Looks like a budget substitute card at least. While you won't often be able to play 2 big creatures at once, you could play this into a big creature mid/lategame and get 2 creatures out at once. 4 mana play this, 4 more mana play a 6 drop.
Does verdurous gearhulk trigger Sarkhan's unsealing in the way you think? It says when you cast a creature, verdurous gearhulk has 4 power when cast, so it only activates the 4 direct damage clause. However, I do like Sarkhan's unsealing as a turn 4 play before xenagos, that's pretty cool.
Also Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma seems alright. Looks like a budget substitute card at least. While you won't often be able to play 2 big creatures at once, you could play this into a big creature mid/lategame and get 2 creatures out at once. 4 mana play this, 4 more mana play a 6 drop.
Okay, gearhulk only triggers the 4 damage to one target mode. My point however is that if you build around it a bit (say because you are on a budget and can't afford the 25 dollar super haymakers), then this is a really good card. Min-maxing at my stage is very difficult and I can't reach that global damage mark often. If Xenagos was a 7 power creature, this would be an autoinclude.
Also, imo, the floor on Disrupt Decorum is that it does nothing.. As in, there are no creatures out and there are no creatures worth goading. Every card is valuable and any card that doesn't pull its weight will never stay for long.
Oracle of Mul Daya won me a game today. Also demonstrated this deck to a new game store. They love it.
Just wanted to clarify about Sarkhan's unsealing. I've still got a lot to learn about the rules so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
Disrupt Decorum could be more meta specific to creature based metas. On the other hand everyone has a commander at the very least. Do you play in a meta that basically doesn't use creatures or something?
The floor just seems like a very unlikely scenario. Like I said, if no one else has creatures on the board and we do, then we are winning almost all of the time. This card is not for those times. Just save it for a while. If people keep not playing creatures out, we'll just keep attacking in and killing them off, we were winning anyway. Our deck is low on boardwipes and creature removal, so we aren't preventing many creatures from being on the board at least.
Checking this card out in quadrant theory, it's AMAZING when we are behind in the game, at parity with opponents, often when we're ahead too. This is a cheap spell that can sometimes function as a psuedo take an extra turn card. Those times when we are going to get crushed on an attack from an opponent/opponents, we get a whole extra turn than before.
It can also function like a psuedo "each opponent sacrifices a creature and loses 'some' life." The person who takes a turn after you (player 2) may have a very vicious board to attack into. They may stand a good chance of losing at least one of their creatures if they have a small one. If they don't play a creature out on their turn, now players 3/4 can attack into player 2 with no chance of their creatures dying. This will be brutal for player 2. Player 4 has a chance to attack into player 3 uncontested depending on what kind of creature they put out. Either creatures will be dying, or people will be taking a lot of damage.
Anyway, could go on about possible scenarios. However, if you often look around when playing xenagos and find there are a bunch of other creatures on the board, this card should be great. Or if you just need to get around someone's deathtouch blocker for a turn. Or if people play giant eldrazi, Blightsteel colossus, worldspine worm et. et. Getting our opponents to kill each other off while leaving themselves vulnerable to us seems like an amazing card.
My list is being updated to include this. I'll let you know how it goes if I ever play it.
Yeah, Disrupt Decorum is cool. However, Xenagod often has a bejeezus sized beefslab on tap main two, so abusing the hell out of that seems preferable. Chandra's Ignition, Blasphemous Act, even lesser stuff like Chain Reaction. Instead of stuff being tapped for a turn, it's dead. Seems better.
So far, Mimic Vat is used as insurance against removal, and it is okay at it, but now that Crucible of Worlds is super affordable, someone recommended that I run that in its place. I'm actually intrigued for using it to ensure my land drops.. Specifically, my seventh and eighth ones but also the others in case somehow I don't hit them. There will be some games where it does very little, but I'm not really winning the games where all I draw are lands anyway. Plus, I do have five fetches and two forms of land destruction ever since I added a Wasteland to the list. I have noticed that I do win significantly more games where I always hit my land drop, and so I wonder if this swap is worth it. I'll test it and see. Sometimes it will actually do nothing, I'm aware of this. Same with Mimic Vat though, and that's why it's a weaker slot that I can test.
Also, I don't run Ramunap Excavator because being a creature is significantly worse here and I'm not going out of my way to tutor for this effect.
As for Disrupt Decorum, its effectiveness is honestly pretty reliant on your opponent's strategy. If it is a creature based strategy that attacks (Mayael for example), then it is generally always good. However, if the strategy is significantly less reliant on such, then it is less impactful. Mass removal can often hit those types of decks, even if their creatures aren't used for attacking.
For example, my artifact Marchesa build, despite being a deck that attacks, doesn't really win all that much from the combat step. The attacks are mostly for setup purposes and so disrupting its decorum doesn't have a particularly strong impact. If it does win on the combat step, that means it is way far ahead of everyone else at the table.
As I get my second crucible, Treasure Nabber gets spoiled and I instantly want to run that in Mimic Vat's place.
I hear having a Hellkite Tyrant that doesn't need to attack is really good. Sure, they get their stuff back after I use it, but I can't complain for 3 mana.
Oh yeah, also unlike the tyrant it does affect all opponents. Ridiculous
Treasure Nabber looks ridiculous for every edh red deck. Everyone runs mana rocks, even if green does a bit less so. If all of our opponents get greedy and use their rocks, we will end up with a ridiculous amount of mana. Reminds me of Rhystic Study in a way. If your opponents don't work together to fight against it, things can get ridiculous. Yet, they are still punished by lack of mana if they do resist it.
I just might throw this in the deck. Seems too punishing to opponents not to include it. On curve, we can pop this out before xenagos and swing in on the person without a creature.
Edit: Heads up! Reprint of Balefire Dragon in Ultimate Masters has brought it down to under $6 and it will probably drop from there a bit. Also Gamble gets a reprint. Time to pick them up soon.
Question for y'all. Red keeps printing these "play a card until end of turn" effects and I'm thinking of running one or two. These are obviously budget friendly options as the original wheel or Sylvan Library are better. However, for one looking for cheap alternatives, what about these:
There's probably a card or two missing from this list as well, please let me know of similar cards I'm missing.
I was thinking of replacing something like Wheel of fateReforge the soul or hunter's insight all of which I'm currently running. Outpost siege looks like the best as it can get you lands into play and is also an enchantment, the hardest of permanents to remove.
Chandra looks good because of the flexibility between ramp and "card draw" that 4 damage ability could come in handy as well in a deck without much creature removal. Downside is a planeswalker which always gain attention, and are easy to remove compared to enchantments. I could see sticking this early and running away with the game, or playing it late game use it's mana ability to make it a 2 cost planeswalker while still having mana for another spell. Xenagos is offensive however, and we won't have many creatures up for blocking to keep chandra around.
Experimental frenzy doesn't seem flexible enough to include and too much downside. Just included it to show another of these "new" effects showing up in red.
What about The immortal sun? Too expensive cmc for truly competitive edh I know, but my group is slower...
I'd say that if you pursue that route, the 4CMC enchantments are the best way to go. You also get Vance's Blasting Cannons, which may not let you hit lands but at least it doesn't die when you turn stuff sideways at it. My gut agrees with your hypothesis that The Immortal Sun is a bit too steep to merit a slot, at 6CMC you probably want to be doing business stuff. Some part of me wants to recommend Elemental Bond and Lifecrafter's Bestiary.
Thanks for the heads up. Do you think I should be considering experimental frenzy as a possible choice. I thought about it some more and perhaps it is good. I don't need to draw cards until I'm pretty much out of them. Also it's not like paying an additional 4 mana after drawing a bunch of good cards to destroy is much to ask with all the ramp going on in our deck.
I have Lifecrafter's Bestiary in already. Elemental bond has been in and out of the deck for me, I believe it's currently out. My reasoning is that I don't usually want to play draw card spells before playing a big creature. All my early turns are used on ramp spells then play Xenagos, then get creature out asap. I've just found that bond sits in hand, then might not do anything for a while. Or play it early at the cost of being behind a turn on the Xenagos+Big creature combo. I like bestiary better because it will keep scrying even if I can't draw a card off of it on the next turn.
Also the reason I'm not as big a fan of the wheel type effects is because my playgroup doesn't understand the value of drawing cards. I end up filling up a bunch of opponents' hands that were almost empty anyway.
Probably Outpost Siege or Chandra. Chandra also has the advantage of feeding the deck mana, but she's kind of a C- card in EDH. Not overly impressive, but fulfills a role.
The reason I actually don't like Experimental Frenzy in this deck (although I love the card itself) is because we play a lot of situational cards that can simply get stranded if left on top of the deck. Frenzy is at its best when you play purely proactive stuff that doesn't require board context to do anything.
Honestly, I'm simply hoping for even a 5/3 trample that draws cards equal to the combat damage dealt to any player.. Considering what I wished for before and how I got exactly what I wanted (and more) in the form of Carnage Tyrant, I must be doing something right.
Ideas on things I should cut because clearly there are too many cards.
I think I should reduce the cards above 4 cmc
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Ideas on things I should cut because clearly there are too many cards.
I think I should reduce the cards above 4 cmc
First off, unrelated but I'm going to try out Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma. It's not a great accelerant and it isn't a great threat, but it is both, and sometimes that's what I need.
If I had Mimic Vat in there before, it is definitely out. It is a holdover from back when EDH decks were generally slower. These days, it is far too slow and my success generally hinges upon one attack, making the one-shot spells much better.
Anyway...
Now I got the time to look at your list. 131 cards. So, there are a lot of points to consider. Definitely need to lower curve.
First, avoid having cards that you can't realistically cast. This means that Blightsteel Colossus is out, but Emrakul, the Promised End is still okay because she is realistically castable in a game (and is actually a fantastic top-end for the deck)
Creature Tutoring and recursion is nice but unless it is low cost it is not needed here. GSZ, Worldly, and Gamble is fine but Fierce Empath, Signal the Clans, and Eternal Witness I believe should be out. You don't want to spend 3 for these effects because the deck has a ton of redundancy. It matters a little bit the exact nature of the big threat you deploy (Savage Ventmaw in particular stands out), but more often than not you just want something that is good enough that you'll be happy smacking someone once with it.
If you choose to go the manadork route, it is more vulnerable to sweepers although more consistently fast and gives you access to cradle which is unsurprisingly insane. It also helps against Plaguecrafter and friends. Additionally, manadork routes give you access to Natural Order and Survival of the Fittest which are great. In meta light on wraths, the manadork route imo is superior. However, you also are at risk for making Xenagos into a creature, leaving him more vulnerable to removal, which brings me to my second point.
Take heavy consideration as to the amount of devotion that you have at any one time. Making Xenagos into a creature sometimes is helpful, but more often than not it just leaves him viable to be killed or stolen. 3 devotion cards like Spellbreaker Behemoth need high justification to make it in.
This list has a lot of blue hate. While this is fine and all, make sure you understand that every card slot counts as we can't draw cards at will like blue and black can. This brings me to my next point.
While fast mana is often good, those that cost you two cards are dangerous here as you can't really afford to lose 2 cards just to be ahead 1 mana. The exception of course is Gamble because getting Mana Crypt gives you 2 fast mana for 2 cards, which is acceptable.
Individual card considerations. I think you should run Frontier Siege and Tireless Tracker. One is a lot of mana and the other is a reliable draw source. Cards I do not like are Elvish Piper (too clunky), Kiki-Jiki (very poor synergy), Living Hive, Chord of Calling (your small guys tap for mana anyway), Mana Vault (most decks treat it like colorless Dark Ritual and we are too mana hungry for this) Skullclamp (not reliable enough), Sword of Feast and Famine (anti-synergy with Xenagos due to pro-green), and all of the planeswalkers except Chandra and maybe Garruk because they don't do enough and you can't protect them.
Your land count might be a bit low. In this deck, missing land drops is VERY punishing. I run top, Mirri's Guile, AND Sylvan Library for that reason. Also, run a Strip Mine. You don't want to essentially autolose to Glacial Chasm.
The fact that your list is missing Joraga Treespeaker (it gets to 5 mana on turn 3) is worth making a point all in itself.
I hope all of this input helps you trim down the list.
I have access to both Blood Moons myself. In my very short amount of testing, they don't get in the way too much if you're smart about it. Just don't use it to cure your Ancient Tomb addiction.
Alright crushers of lesser EDH decks, some thoughts.
I have been looking for a way to make our deck more resilient to boardwipes. Running out of creatures is about the only way this deck looses for me. I used to have vorapede in the deck for instance. Now I miss it!
Anyway, found some cards that will return or protect stuff in one way or another and wanted your thoughts on these:
I'm thinking about finding slots for 2 or 3 of these cards that will keep coming back from the dead, or at least bring something back from the dead.
I will remove territorial hellkite to make way for ashcloud phoenix I believe. I love hellkite, but believe the ability to come back from the dead will prove more useful in the end.
Temur Sabertooth will also find a home in my deck most likely. This guy is can help save 2 creatures from boardwipes at one time. Also 2 mana doesn't seem like too much to ask, as we will usually have extra mana to use once we have xenagos and a big creature on the field already. We can also flirt with making xenagos a creature with little repercussion once this is out.
Both of the cards I mentioned can be defensive too. While this deck is all about aggro power, at least a couple of cards that can help us block efficiently while also saving us from utter ruin when boardwipes get played will help it win more games.
I opened a Gamble last night drafting Ultimate Masters, so I'll make room for that one too! New deck list to follow eventually.
What do you all think of these creatures and/or the need for boardwipe insurance?
It all depends on your meta i guess, but i feel all cards you mention are too slow for this deck. The damage to mana cost ratio is just too far off. Your creature might be more resilient (saves you a card) but if your opponents get one more round to stop you that’s -3 cards. Net -2.
One you might consider is Phytotitan. Trades evasion for resiliency. I wouldn’t run it myself but i feel it’s better than the cards you mentioned and achieves the same thing.
Also, since you only need one big beatstick, not overcommitting is the best boardwipe insurance there is.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
If it is really necessary to protect against wipes, Heroic Intervention seems better than any of the other options, given that you get to stop exile and permanent theft as well.
I sort of keep it in the board because paying 2 vs 1 mana for the effect is significant.
Interesting question. Has anyone ever tried running a Karn, Scion of Urza as a card engine for decks that can't be picky for unconditional card advantage?
Getting the worse of the two cards isn't too bad. I'm still happy just getting lands half of the time. In such a way, it would play like Oracle of Mul Daya late game when I don't luck out on two lands off the top.. My list is budgetless so money cost is irrelevant, and starting with 5 counters when playing it on turn 3 prevents him from biting it to early pokes. Making chumps that don't contribute to devotion isn't bad either, as well as not contributing to devotion itself.
My main concern with the card is that it has "Managorger Hydra" syndrome. As in.. it's a great play on exactly turn 3 and completely awful afterwards. To some extent, Combat Celebrant and Nature's Will have this problem too (as well as many other 4-drop setup plays) but playing those cards late don't feel quite as bad because we still get some reasonable value out of them. The worst case scenario is that we are completely out of gas and this card just gives us lands all the time. Ensuring land drops is great but if that is all you get when you have nothing to do with them, then it's not doing what we want to do.
Or.. I could play Nissa, Vastwood Seer and forget I ever had this conversation. Or I could just wish I had access to two Tireless Trackers instead, a card that I consider better than both. Maybe a tutor that gets that would be simply better as if I'm going to make a marginal play on turn 3, it had better get me a LOT of potential value when I need it and in a way that few people can or wish to stop.
I got a Survival of the Fittest. Maybe run that? I did mean to put Fauna Shaman back in, but if I have an actual survival, might as well run that.. In the right circumstances, card selection is about as good, especially when it gets Emrakul, the Promised End. Normally we don't really care about the exact nature of our threats, but survival is low enough in mana cost and being able to turn useless utility or dorks for 1 mana into Carnage Tyrant is pretty good. Although... at that point might as well run Sylvan Tutor instead as I don't see myself using Survival multiple times in a game.... which is 48 bucks I'm not willing to spend. I got two survivals though, so for my budget's sake I'm running Survival I guess...
Hell, if we're going for scavenging my old reanimator deck for even more parts, I could throw a Sylvan Safekeeper in here too. Sure, it is shroud, but turning their removal into fog is fine for a 1 mana creature.
I did eye Karn, Scion of Urza earlier but I tend not to buy cards when they are in standard for my edh deck. Trying to save that $. I have played with Karn in standard and I'm not sure how good it is. Sure, it can draw you the worst of your top 2 cards. However, when someone gets rid of a card you would have drawn naturally you next turn, then Karn dies before you can grab it out of exile, it really hurts. Karn becomes actively bad at that point, you pay 4 to draw 1 of the lesser of 2 cards. As much as we need more card draw, not sure this will work.
I do wonder about Vivien Reid's potential as both of her abilities are very good right out the gate. She will most likely draw you a decent creature with her plus one, or the choice of a land if you want. Karn will most likely not draw you a creature the turn it comes out. Also her -3 ability is very good in edh. You always want more artifact/enchantment destruction in edh, it's just hard to actually dedicate slots solely to it! Since she does 2 things our deck desperately needs, she is the superior walker and probably better then survival of the fittest and the like too.
Something to consider is how many tutors we have that actually give us a card disadvantage. GambleWorldly Tutor and cards that make you discard are not replacing themselves with their effects. They empty our hand if we use too many and the deck can already struggle with running out of gas. That's why I think Vivien may be better then the other cards mentioned. For the same reason, I'd look at Summoner's Pact over Sylvan Tutor. The "cost" in tempo does not matter to us compared to the cost of a card. The fact that this will help us get through another 12+ damage the turn it's played, even when top-decked puts it over the top. You may think "Yeah, but I have to spend 4 mana on my next turn, preventing me from playing another creature!" However, if you had a beat-stick in hand that you could have played already, you would have done that rather than play the tutor. If an opponent is saving removal to keep you down, you just get it out of their hand a turn earlier so that's pretty neutral. With our rampy deck, 4 mana may not even prevent us from casting at least *something* else on our next turn.
My next choice would be Primal Command. Though it costs 5 mana, it doesn't have that card negative value like the other tutors. You get a card in hand, plus an effect so it's card positive value the way I look at it. Getting rid of graveyards can be quite helpful, so having a card with that mode is nice. Has the potential to get rid of troublesome permanents completely if we already have plenty of creature. Just put that troublesome planeswalker or even Maze of ith on top of their library then shuffle it away.
Your questions have made me remember I should be finding room for these cards in my deck as well!
Well, the whole idea is that running Survival is not actually meant to be an early game play or a play designed to be a substitute for a beatstick. The correct alternative is always to play the first beatstick when available. However, I want to be able to have access to them more consistently when I don't naturally draw them. Worldly Tutor and Gamble are super powerful and despite being card disadvantage I don't mind that from what they offer. This is different from running a Chrome Mox as my payoff is only 1 extra mana instead of the creature of my choice that I can use to win the game, a Mana Crypt, or any card that refills my hand or wins me the game. Hopefully soon I get a tutorable beatstick with built-in draw triggers to make Survival significantly better. Again though, my main issue with survival is not needing to use it more than once in a game.
While GSZ takes a pass because it is also ramp, I found that Summoner's Pact not fetching Emrakul was pretty relevant. When we do get the good tutor, we want it generally to fetch the meanest thing possible for the situation.
Vivien is honestly probably the best but I just... wish she wasn't 5cmc. She's correctly costed but playing her too late feels like playing Adventurous Impulse... which itself wouldn't be bad if not for the fact that whiffing feels ridiculously bad.
Honestly, I wouldn't at all be having this conversation if I had better draw options. I'll just have it there to fill space until I figure out what I actually want in that slot.
Karn definitely isn't the right choice as much as appealing as it looks on the surface.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Gamble and worldly tutor are bad. I'm adding both in before my next play in fact. However, looking at your current list, you have 3 cards with this negative card value effect already. Gamble, worldy tutor, and sneak attack. I may be missing some. By adding a 4th negative card value tutor, you're really increasing your chances of drawing a card that nets you -1 card draw essentially.
It's true that Summoner's pact isn't as flexible as sylvan tutor for instance. Consider that you mentioned you aren't looking to use these tutors early game. Mid-late game when we tutor, we want that creature directly into hand and playable now. (That's why I mentioned the significant difference between top decking pact vs tutor.) You must consider all those times when getting the card you want into hand on that turn is the difference between life and death. If not in that round of turns, the next one. We're talking about the difference between killing someone this turn, or hoping to kill someone on the next.
Seems like the philosophy of this deck is, if you are on the beat down already, don't overplay your hand with an extra creature that can be boardwiped away or turn xenagos into a creature.
Combine that with the fact that we may intentionally be searching out a hexproof creature instead of emrakul at the time, summoner's pact seems better. Or that late game when low on cards, we may discard that emrakul with gamble.
Green sun zenith isn't a card negative value because it doesn't prevent you from getting your next draw, cost you a card to use, or have the chance of not working like gamble. This is the most superior of all the tutors in my opinion.
With survival of the fittest you are discarding a creature card you already have in hand. How likely is it that you absolutely didn't need that creature card? You're just getting into very narrow territory where this card matters:
1) Mid to late game
2) must have a creature card in hand during this time that I don't want
3) makes the creature cost 1 extra mana to cast, which is sketchy when trying to search up emrakul
4) Remember you took up a card slot, 3 mana plus an extra creature card to use this once, with a narrow possibility of it being used twice.
If you're looking for raw card advantage, Mask of Memory is great. Extremely low mana investment, plus it digs 2 cards deep, and is a very repeatable effect even mid-game.
Alright. Well, paying 3 mana total just to tutor once but require a creature card to do so is honestly not where I want to be. Guess I'll just wait to see if new cards come out that are better than what I've currently got.
None of the cards from the new set make it in for me, although there are a couple interesting cards
Guardian Project: Basically an enchantment that draws a card when a creature enters under your control. Important to note that it is 1 green mana symbol and works with small creatures and also Sneak Attack.
Domri, Chaos Bringer: This card is actually pretty sweet overall for creature-heavy builds. The 1 mana is okay but the haste granting power of it is kind of wasted here.
Cindervines: This is the card most likely to make it in if a change needed to be made. Its effectiveness depends upon how often your opponents cast noncreature spells throughout the game. The chip damage is occasionally relevant for getting players into one-shot range. I'm going to try it out and see how often the damage becomes relevant throughout the game.
Gruul Spellbreaker is 1 P/T away from making it in. 4 power is just a little too low for my liking, although Goreclaw isn't that much better in that regard. If it was a 4 mana 5/5 with the counter factored in, I'd run it without question. 1 base P/T difference on a card can potentially cost 6 points of damage in the right scenarios.
I'm actually considering a small landbase change. Swapping Skarrg, the Rage Pits for a Wasteland. Skarrg usually doesn't get activated at all, and being able to nuke Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, and Cabal Coffers is too good of a upside to ignore. Sometimes I don't always draw into the strip mine, so having a spare seems reasonable.
In observation, I also find card draw and Emrakul, the Promised End to be some of the best things I could hit in this deck. I've never had to struggle with casting Emrakul in the late game, and it has been worth the risk of having it stranded in my hand in a deck where you don't want this to happen. There is a risk, but there is big payoff for getting it to work. Before Eldritch Moon, this deck had a glaring weakness in its lategame at times, but when I get to pay 9 mana to essentially take out two players without them being able to stop me, I've had reasonable boosts in my late game winrate. It makes me sad that basically no one plays the card. That, and Frontier Siege..
I also have new reputations. Today I earned one where I managed to kill someone on multiple occasions from attacking them with a single Oracle of Mul Daya. This is to I guess go with my reputation of being forced to chump block with gigantic monsters at times. It has been confirmed that I have chump blocked with every non-indestructible Eldrazi titan. Yes, that includes Emrakul, the Aeons Torn from before the EDH days. You do not want to know how I got into that mess..
(the crazy part was that I still won that game where I chump blocked with the best beef in Magic)
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Disrupt Decorum
Now, this card is at it's best in a meta with a decent number of creatures in it, but it's good as long as your meta isn't full of non-creature decks.
The floor of this card is: You will not be attacked during the this turn cycle, unless someone has haste abilities. Even then, it's unlikely as they will want to attack as they probably want a blocker up for inevitable counter swings. Even if no creatures die, all of our opponents' non-vigilant creatures will be tapped except for those played during that turn cycle. This means you will swing basically unimpeded into any opponent you want.
The ceiling is: You get everything on the floor plus possibly opponents killing each other off. Or, many creatures trade, commanders get sent back to the command zone. You rip open a defense or two because someone was forced to attack with their blocker. (Say a deathtoucher for instance.) If things go well, our opponents will not be in a position to retaliate well due to having lost creatures. It seems basically impossible not to touch some part of this ceiling every time the card is cast unless there are no creatures on the board except your own. If that's the case, we are already in a good position most likely, so we don't need to rely on this card.
I think the card looks bad on it's surface because the text is so simple, goad all creatures you don't control. When you really think about how that applies to an edh mid-late game and this deck, the card looks like a possible wincon.
Maybe it's not playable over some of the better double combat spells, but I don't have all of those yet. Room will be made for it somehow, hopefully, in my deck. If I get to cast it, you'll here about it.
Does verdurous gearhulk trigger Sarkhan's unsealing in the way you think? It says when you cast a creature, verdurous gearhulk has 4 power when cast, so it only activates the 4 direct damage clause. However, I do like Sarkhan's unsealing as a turn 4 play before xenagos, that's pretty cool.
Also Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma seems alright. Looks like a budget substitute card at least. While you won't often be able to play 2 big creatures at once, you could play this into a big creature mid/lategame and get 2 creatures out at once. 4 mana play this, 4 more mana play a 6 drop.
Okay, gearhulk only triggers the 4 damage to one target mode. My point however is that if you build around it a bit (say because you are on a budget and can't afford the 25 dollar super haymakers), then this is a really good card. Min-maxing at my stage is very difficult and I can't reach that global damage mark often. If Xenagos was a 7 power creature, this would be an autoinclude.
Also, imo, the floor on Disrupt Decorum is that it does nothing.. As in, there are no creatures out and there are no creatures worth goading. Every card is valuable and any card that doesn't pull its weight will never stay for long.
Oracle of Mul Daya won me a game today. Also demonstrated this deck to a new game store. They love it.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Disrupt Decorum could be more meta specific to creature based metas. On the other hand everyone has a commander at the very least. Do you play in a meta that basically doesn't use creatures or something?
The floor just seems like a very unlikely scenario. Like I said, if no one else has creatures on the board and we do, then we are winning almost all of the time. This card is not for those times. Just save it for a while. If people keep not playing creatures out, we'll just keep attacking in and killing them off, we were winning anyway. Our deck is low on boardwipes and creature removal, so we aren't preventing many creatures from being on the board at least.
Checking this card out in quadrant theory, it's AMAZING when we are behind in the game, at parity with opponents, often when we're ahead too. This is a cheap spell that can sometimes function as a psuedo take an extra turn card. Those times when we are going to get crushed on an attack from an opponent/opponents, we get a whole extra turn than before.
It can also function like a psuedo "each opponent sacrifices a creature and loses 'some' life." The person who takes a turn after you (player 2) may have a very vicious board to attack into. They may stand a good chance of losing at least one of their creatures if they have a small one. If they don't play a creature out on their turn, now players 3/4 can attack into player 2 with no chance of their creatures dying. This will be brutal for player 2. Player 4 has a chance to attack into player 3 uncontested depending on what kind of creature they put out. Either creatures will be dying, or people will be taking a lot of damage.
Anyway, could go on about possible scenarios. However, if you often look around when playing xenagos and find there are a bunch of other creatures on the board, this card should be great. Or if you just need to get around someone's deathtouch blocker for a turn. Or if people play giant eldrazi, Blightsteel colossus, worldspine worm et. et. Getting our opponents to kill each other off while leaving themselves vulnerable to us seems like an amazing card.
My list is being updated to include this. I'll let you know how it goes if I ever play it.
So far, Mimic Vat is used as insurance against removal, and it is okay at it, but now that Crucible of Worlds is super affordable, someone recommended that I run that in its place. I'm actually intrigued for using it to ensure my land drops.. Specifically, my seventh and eighth ones but also the others in case somehow I don't hit them. There will be some games where it does very little, but I'm not really winning the games where all I draw are lands anyway. Plus, I do have five fetches and two forms of land destruction ever since I added a Wasteland to the list. I have noticed that I do win significantly more games where I always hit my land drop, and so I wonder if this swap is worth it. I'll test it and see. Sometimes it will actually do nothing, I'm aware of this. Same with Mimic Vat though, and that's why it's a weaker slot that I can test.
Also, I don't run Ramunap Excavator because being a creature is significantly worse here and I'm not going out of my way to tutor for this effect.
As for Disrupt Decorum, its effectiveness is honestly pretty reliant on your opponent's strategy. If it is a creature based strategy that attacks (Mayael for example), then it is generally always good. However, if the strategy is significantly less reliant on such, then it is less impactful. Mass removal can often hit those types of decks, even if their creatures aren't used for attacking.
For example, my artifact Marchesa build, despite being a deck that attacks, doesn't really win all that much from the combat step. The attacks are mostly for setup purposes and so disrupting its decorum doesn't have a particularly strong impact. If it does win on the combat step, that means it is way far ahead of everyone else at the table.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I hear having a Hellkite Tyrant that doesn't need to attack is really good. Sure, they get their stuff back after I use it, but I can't complain for 3 mana.
Oh yeah, also unlike the tyrant it does affect all opponents. Ridiculous
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I just might throw this in the deck. Seems too punishing to opponents not to include it. On curve, we can pop this out before xenagos and swing in on the person without a creature.
Question for y'all. Red keeps printing these "play a card until end of turn" effects and I'm thinking of running one or two. These are obviously budget friendly options as the original wheel or Sylvan Library are better. However, for one looking for cheap alternatives, what about these:
There's probably a card or two missing from this list as well, please let me know of similar cards I'm missing.
I was thinking of replacing something like Wheel of fate Reforge the soul or hunter's insight all of which I'm currently running. Outpost siege looks like the best as it can get you lands into play and is also an enchantment, the hardest of permanents to remove.
Chandra looks good because of the flexibility between ramp and "card draw" that 4 damage ability could come in handy as well in a deck without much creature removal. Downside is a planeswalker which always gain attention, and are easy to remove compared to enchantments. I could see sticking this early and running away with the game, or playing it late game use it's mana ability to make it a 2 cost planeswalker while still having mana for another spell. Xenagos is offensive however, and we won't have many creatures up for blocking to keep chandra around.
Experimental frenzy doesn't seem flexible enough to include and too much downside. Just included it to show another of these "new" effects showing up in red.
What about The immortal sun? Too expensive cmc for truly competitive edh I know, but my group is slower...
I have Lifecrafter's Bestiary in already. Elemental bond has been in and out of the deck for me, I believe it's currently out. My reasoning is that I don't usually want to play draw card spells before playing a big creature. All my early turns are used on ramp spells then play Xenagos, then get creature out asap. I've just found that bond sits in hand, then might not do anything for a while. Or play it early at the cost of being behind a turn on the Xenagos+Big creature combo. I like bestiary better because it will keep scrying even if I can't draw a card off of it on the next turn.
Also the reason I'm not as big a fan of the wheel type effects is because my playgroup doesn't understand the value of drawing cards. I end up filling up a bunch of opponents' hands that were almost empty anyway.
The reason I actually don't like Experimental Frenzy in this deck (although I love the card itself) is because we play a lot of situational cards that can simply get stranded if left on top of the deck. Frenzy is at its best when you play purely proactive stuff that doesn't require board context to do anything.
The Immortal Sun is absolutely too pricey.
Honestly, I'm simply hoping for even a 5/3 trample that draws cards equal to the combat damage dealt to any player.. Considering what I wished for before and how I got exactly what I wanted (and more) in the form of Carnage Tyrant, I must be doing something right.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-12-18-xenagod/?cb=1545005545
Ideas on things I should cut because clearly there are too many cards.
I think I should reduce the cards above 4 cmc
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
First off, unrelated but I'm going to try out Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma. It's not a great accelerant and it isn't a great threat, but it is both, and sometimes that's what I need.
If I had Mimic Vat in there before, it is definitely out. It is a holdover from back when EDH decks were generally slower. These days, it is far too slow and my success generally hinges upon one attack, making the one-shot spells much better.
Anyway...
Now I got the time to look at your list. 131 cards. So, there are a lot of points to consider. Definitely need to lower curve.
I hope all of this input helps you trim down the list.
I have access to both Blood Moons myself. In my very short amount of testing, they don't get in the way too much if you're smart about it. Just don't use it to cure your Ancient Tomb addiction.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I have been looking for a way to make our deck more resilient to boardwipes. Running out of creatures is about the only way this deck looses for me. I used to have vorapede in the deck for instance. Now I miss it!
Anyway, found some cards that will return or protect stuff in one way or another and wanted your thoughts on these:
I'm thinking about finding slots for 2 or 3 of these cards that will keep coming back from the dead, or at least bring something back from the dead.
I will remove territorial hellkite to make way for ashcloud phoenix I believe. I love hellkite, but believe the ability to come back from the dead will prove more useful in the end.
Temur Sabertooth will also find a home in my deck most likely. This guy is can help save 2 creatures from boardwipes at one time. Also 2 mana doesn't seem like too much to ask, as we will usually have extra mana to use once we have xenagos and a big creature on the field already. We can also flirt with making xenagos a creature with little repercussion once this is out.
Both of the cards I mentioned can be defensive too. While this deck is all about aggro power, at least a couple of cards that can help us block efficiently while also saving us from utter ruin when boardwipes get played will help it win more games.
I opened a Gamble last night drafting Ultimate Masters, so I'll make room for that one too! New deck list to follow eventually.
What do you all think of these creatures and/or the need for boardwipe insurance?
I was so close to winning off of a shaman of forgotten ways life total switcheroo last game!
One you might consider is Phytotitan. Trades evasion for resiliency. I wouldn’t run it myself but i feel it’s better than the cards you mentioned and achieves the same thing.
Also, since you only need one big beatstick, not overcommitting is the best boardwipe insurance there is.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I sort of keep it in the board because paying 2 vs 1 mana for the effect is significant.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Getting the worse of the two cards isn't too bad. I'm still happy just getting lands half of the time. In such a way, it would play like Oracle of Mul Daya late game when I don't luck out on two lands off the top.. My list is budgetless so money cost is irrelevant, and starting with 5 counters when playing it on turn 3 prevents him from biting it to early pokes. Making chumps that don't contribute to devotion isn't bad either, as well as not contributing to devotion itself.
My main concern with the card is that it has "Managorger Hydra" syndrome. As in.. it's a great play on exactly turn 3 and completely awful afterwards. To some extent, Combat Celebrant and Nature's Will have this problem too (as well as many other 4-drop setup plays) but playing those cards late don't feel quite as bad because we still get some reasonable value out of them. The worst case scenario is that we are completely out of gas and this card just gives us lands all the time. Ensuring land drops is great but if that is all you get when you have nothing to do with them, then it's not doing what we want to do.
Or.. I could play Nissa, Vastwood Seer and forget I ever had this conversation. Or I could just wish I had access to two Tireless Trackers instead, a card that I consider better than both. Maybe a tutor that gets that would be simply better as if I'm going to make a marginal play on turn 3, it had better get me a LOT of potential value when I need it and in a way that few people can or wish to stop.
I got a Survival of the Fittest. Maybe run that? I did mean to put Fauna Shaman back in, but if I have an actual survival, might as well run that.. In the right circumstances, card selection is about as good, especially when it gets Emrakul, the Promised End. Normally we don't really care about the exact nature of our threats, but survival is low enough in mana cost and being able to turn useless utility or dorks for 1 mana into Carnage Tyrant is pretty good. Although... at that point might as well run Sylvan Tutor instead as I don't see myself using Survival multiple times in a game.... which is 48 bucks I'm not willing to spend. I got two survivals though, so for my budget's sake I'm running Survival I guess...
Hell, if we're going for scavenging my old reanimator deck for even more parts, I could throw a Sylvan Safekeeper in here too. Sure, it is shroud, but turning their removal into fog is fine for a 1 mana creature.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I do wonder about Vivien Reid's potential as both of her abilities are very good right out the gate. She will most likely draw you a decent creature with her plus one, or the choice of a land if you want. Karn will most likely not draw you a creature the turn it comes out. Also her -3 ability is very good in edh. You always want more artifact/enchantment destruction in edh, it's just hard to actually dedicate slots solely to it! Since she does 2 things our deck desperately needs, she is the superior walker and probably better then survival of the fittest and the like too.
Something to consider is how many tutors we have that actually give us a card disadvantage. Gamble Worldly Tutor and cards that make you discard are not replacing themselves with their effects. They empty our hand if we use too many and the deck can already struggle with running out of gas. That's why I think Vivien may be better then the other cards mentioned. For the same reason, I'd look at Summoner's Pact over Sylvan Tutor. The "cost" in tempo does not matter to us compared to the cost of a card. The fact that this will help us get through another 12+ damage the turn it's played, even when top-decked puts it over the top. You may think "Yeah, but I have to spend 4 mana on my next turn, preventing me from playing another creature!" However, if you had a beat-stick in hand that you could have played already, you would have done that rather than play the tutor. If an opponent is saving removal to keep you down, you just get it out of their hand a turn earlier so that's pretty neutral. With our rampy deck, 4 mana may not even prevent us from casting at least *something* else on our next turn.
My next choice would be Primal Command. Though it costs 5 mana, it doesn't have that card negative value like the other tutors. You get a card in hand, plus an effect so it's card positive value the way I look at it. Getting rid of graveyards can be quite helpful, so having a card with that mode is nice. Has the potential to get rid of troublesome permanents completely if we already have plenty of creature. Just put that troublesome planeswalker or even Maze of ith on top of their library then shuffle it away.
Your questions have made me remember I should be finding room for these cards in my deck as well!
While GSZ takes a pass because it is also ramp, I found that Summoner's Pact not fetching Emrakul was pretty relevant. When we do get the good tutor, we want it generally to fetch the meanest thing possible for the situation.
Vivien is honestly probably the best but I just... wish she wasn't 5cmc. She's correctly costed but playing her too late feels like playing Adventurous Impulse... which itself wouldn't be bad if not for the fact that whiffing feels ridiculously bad.
Honestly, I wouldn't at all be having this conversation if I had better draw options. I'll just have it there to fill space until I figure out what I actually want in that slot.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Gamble and worldly tutor are bad. I'm adding both in before my next play in fact. However, looking at your current list, you have 3 cards with this negative card value effect already. Gamble, worldy tutor, and sneak attack. I may be missing some. By adding a 4th negative card value tutor, you're really increasing your chances of drawing a card that nets you -1 card draw essentially.
It's true that Summoner's pact isn't as flexible as sylvan tutor for instance. Consider that you mentioned you aren't looking to use these tutors early game. Mid-late game when we tutor, we want that creature directly into hand and playable now. (That's why I mentioned the significant difference between top decking pact vs tutor.) You must consider all those times when getting the card you want into hand on that turn is the difference between life and death. If not in that round of turns, the next one. We're talking about the difference between killing someone this turn, or hoping to kill someone on the next.
Seems like the philosophy of this deck is, if you are on the beat down already, don't overplay your hand with an extra creature that can be boardwiped away or turn xenagos into a creature.
Combine that with the fact that we may intentionally be searching out a hexproof creature instead of emrakul at the time, summoner's pact seems better. Or that late game when low on cards, we may discard that emrakul with gamble.
Green sun zenith isn't a card negative value because it doesn't prevent you from getting your next draw, cost you a card to use, or have the chance of not working like gamble. This is the most superior of all the tutors in my opinion.
With survival of the fittest you are discarding a creature card you already have in hand. How likely is it that you absolutely didn't need that creature card? You're just getting into very narrow territory where this card matters:
1) Mid to late game
2) must have a creature card in hand during this time that I don't want
3) makes the creature cost 1 extra mana to cast, which is sketchy when trying to search up emrakul
4) Remember you took up a card slot, 3 mana plus an extra creature card to use this once, with a narrow possibility of it being used twice.
If you're looking for raw card advantage, Mask of Memory is great. Extremely low mana investment, plus it digs 2 cards deep, and is a very repeatable effect even mid-game.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Guardian Project: Basically an enchantment that draws a card when a creature enters under your control. Important to note that it is 1 green mana symbol and works with small creatures and also Sneak Attack.
Domri, Chaos Bringer: This card is actually pretty sweet overall for creature-heavy builds. The 1 mana is okay but the haste granting power of it is kind of wasted here.
Cindervines: This is the card most likely to make it in if a change needed to be made. Its effectiveness depends upon how often your opponents cast noncreature spells throughout the game. The chip damage is occasionally relevant for getting players into one-shot range. I'm going to try it out and see how often the damage becomes relevant throughout the game.
Gruul Spellbreaker is 1 P/T away from making it in. 4 power is just a little too low for my liking, although Goreclaw isn't that much better in that regard. If it was a 4 mana 5/5 with the counter factored in, I'd run it without question. 1 base P/T difference on a card can potentially cost 6 points of damage in the right scenarios.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.