I'm not surprised that the Ixalan fellow caught your eye. I think it might be time to move away from the Terra Stomper yardstick
So, I actually recall some time ago asking for a 4GG 7/6 hexproof trampler.
I got exactly that, and they made it uncounterable! This thing should be the go-to card for guaranteeing a smackdown on people. I'm just hoping I don't have to pay $10 for this Carnage Tyrant. I know for a fact that Eternal Witness is getting the boot for it. Recursion is nice but I'm not overly picky on the type of card I need to get back. If it's a threat then I'm probably better off just having it be another one and I rarely need a second dose of card draw.
The other card that deserves attention is Shaper's Sanctuary. It's not really a card advantage tool against spot removal, as you only basically break even, but the place where it really shines is against Maze of Ith players. If you attack these players and force a maze activation, you draw a card. We care about the fact that this card triggers on abilities that target your stuff and that makes it an interesting meta call!
Also, I haven't gotten a good reason to put Grafted Wargear + Godo in the deck yet. The reason is meta considerations. Nature's Claim and Rakdos Charm are seen in every deck that can support the colors, so the idea of losing my attacker to a 1 mana green spell is really not amazing. I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to deliver a worthy representation of how Godo can work in my version. I can blame Marchesa, the Black Rose for partially fueling this shift.
Lastly, my games have been weird lately. After some time where the deck's consistency wasn't getting there despite the tools I have, now I pulled out this deck five times recently and four out of the five times it completely demolished my opponents. The other game I just didn't draw enough threats and almost went for taking out my opponent with a 3/3 monkey..
I just preordered my Carnage Tyrant for this deck for €8,50. It's one of the more pricy cards from Ixalan, but rightfully so I guess.
I know it's not technically card draw but how do you feel about Traverse the Outlands for this deck? We know this deck is mana hungry and you will get all the basics from your entire deck postcombat, boosting both mana and draw quality (And the size of Kessig Wolf run activations).
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I just preordered my Carnage Tyrant for this deck for €8,50. It's one of the more pricy cards from Ixalan, but rightfully so I guess.
I know it's not technically card draw but how do you feel about Traverse the Outlands for this deck? We know this deck is mana hungry and you will get all the basics from your entire deck postcombat, boosting both mana and draw quality (And the size of Kessig Wolf run activations).
I've been really thinking about it. The real question is, if I add it, what am I taking out? A lot of cards I already run effectively cheat on mana, and all things considered I'd much rather have too many cards in hand than too much mana but no cards to spend it on.
Okay, I'll look into it but I'll probably cut Relentless Assault or Vexing Shusher to try it out. I must cut a support card to keep everything as balanced as possible. I might be looking into this the wrong way by thinking about cutting card draw, which is out of the question.
How in the hell is Carnage Tyrant preordering for that much? It's a gigantic Timmy beefslab, does this have typical constructed potential or something?
How in the hell is Carnage Tyrant preordering for that much? It's a gigantic Timmy beefslab, does this have typical constructed potential or something?
Something that pretty much only dies to a boardwipe (that only some decks run) and is bigger than everything else actually has quite a real chance.
I know that I would be terrified to face this as a control player. Most hard boardwipes are in white and ALL of the soft boardwipes don't kill this thing. I don't know what else in Standard can actually deal with this thing..
How in the hell is Carnage Tyrant preordering for that much? It's a gigantic Timmy beefslab, does this have typical constructed potential or something?
Something that pretty much only dies to a boardwipe (that only some decks run) and is bigger than everything else actually has quite a real chance.
I know that I would be terrified to face this as a control player. Most hard boardwipes are in white and ALL of the soft boardwipes don't kill this thing. I don't know what else in Standard can actually deal with this thing..
Ya, it seems pretty self explanatory to me. Do you run board wipes? Oh, you don't? GG
Thanks to a friend who now works at an LGS, he got a chance to buy me a Carnage Tyrant, so now I have one.
Emrakul is still proving immensely difficult to test (mostly due to lack of sufficient datapoints), although one time I was able to cheat the mana cost with an Elvish Piper.
Two changes 10/7/2017
- Eternal Witness - There is enough redundancy that I can feel comfortable cutting all of my recursion. I simply want to draw more over recurring a card every single time
- Vexing Shusher - I'm replacing this with a card that is more... multifunctional.
+ Carnage Tyrant - This is now our go-to card for stomping people and being able to get away with it. Very little can stop this card from getting its initial damage in, and it will likely survive to do more!
+ Autumn's Veil - This card stops both counterspells and black and blue removal. There is a surprising amount of good removal in blue these days, so I'm basically giving up the ability to stop Swords to Plowshares in exchange for being able to stop counterspells. Also, a lot of good white removal outside of it is multicolored, and Chaos Warp and Beast Within are basically the only excellent creature removal spells in those colors anyway. so I don't expect it to be dead very often.
Also, today I tried to draw 22 cards on turn 5 after thrashing two people for half of their life total (I wanted to avoid attacking players with open mana to do so), and someone played Notion Thief on me. Friggen wrecked.
Did the person who stole your 22 cards win his next turn or stop your aggro onslaught from whacking their lifetotal? For everything it is (mostly obnoxious), notion thief does not make a good chump vs . large tramplys.
Well, I sacced my creature to draw the 22, so I kind of needed a refill. I kept on drawing the wrong cards, but eventually someone gave me their general equipped with an Assault Suit and I got a bit of revenge for it later by landing stupid tons of commander damage on him with the help of an extra combat to get rid of him.
I saw my 22 cards upon the first shuffle. If it had resolved, I would have a good chance of annihilating even this big game.
Hello all. This is my first attempt at making a more serious edh deck. I'm missing more expensive cards per budget. Suggestions around $20 and less are appreciated
My meta is small and under-powered. Not many counterspells, boardwipes, spot removal and no infinite combos. It is basically xenagos's dream.
The deck has a different tutor package than most. I play a woodland bellower Fierce empath Mwonvuli beast tracker combo. Empath gets bellower which gets mwonvuli into play. Reclamation sage can also be fetched by bellower which is nice.
Conduit of ruin is another odd tutor that I've found useful. The deck needs more card advantage and tutors on a stick help somewhat. Ruin can also lead to an insanely early ulamog, the ceaseless hunger or Emrakul, the promised end.
A card I've been playing with is Praetor's counsel. Between Reliquary tower, counsel and sylvan scrying, I stand a good chance of finding a no maximum hand size card when drawing a huge number. It's also pretty good mid/late game after a board wipe or when the graveyard naturally fills up.
The deck doesn't have as consistent early card draw as the one on the main page. I've added mana rocks that can draw cards in mind stone, Commander's Sphere and Hedron Archive. This attempts to help fill the gap card draw wise, though it doesn't do the best job it seems.
I feel like the deck is having a hard time balancing its card draw with creatures. It can get screwed when I have card draw that's creature based but no big creature to use it on. On the other hand, big draw effects save our asses in long games/against board wipes. I think the deck needs another 6 drop creature perhaps. Thoughts?
For budget purpose, Hedron Archive and friends aren't the worst choices, although sometimes you'll be in a rut where you want both the cards AND the ramp.
Tutors in theory are pretty good, and they are sometimes important for when you want a very specific beater, but a lot of the deck is built upon redundancy and so unless they get a significant range of tools in your deck (Green Sun, Gamble, Worldly Tutor), then the tutoring effects aren't nearly as strong as they seem.
I personally think that you are missing two of the best (and not very expensive) hyper-ramp options available: Joraga Treespeaker and Carpet of Flowers. The latter can be skipped if literally no one plays blue, but treespeaker gets you 5 mana on turn 3 every time you can play it on turn 1.
Also, it is a surprising thing to say, but you actually lack some amount of damage in this list. Seize the Day, Combat Celebrant, Blood Mist, and Strionic Resonator (which I cut for Blood Mist) are some options. Temur Battle Rage if you want a one-shot effect that is much cheaper but with less impact. Additionally, if you play a beater that does not have evasion, it better have some insane damage potential to make up for it.
If you are lacking card draw, Tireless Tracker is no longer in standard rotation so you should consider picking one up.
Lastly, I'd highly HIGHLY recommend picking up Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. If she is allowed to live, she gives you very good odds of winning the game. Tapping for 13-21 mana is broken on a fundamental level.
As for my deck's changes, I made the following.
Since Grove of the Burnwillows is really cheap now, I can get the last R/G dual that I wanted but never could buy at its price.
ALso, I am replacing Honored Hydra (because it's pretty meh outside of removal-heavy scenarios) with Territorial Hellkite.
I actually like that hellkite a lot in testing. It does a lot of damage for its cost, although you lose the ability to focus your damage. It is used to soften up your opponents and as really good draw fodder. However, this kind of card falls short in a meta where you are always the "second place deck" where people essentially give you free reign to beat up whoever is in first place. This kind of meta is one where creatures that can focus down a player are at their best. Be mindful of your meta before deciding to play this card.
Nature's Will and Sword of Feast and Famine are great accelerants, allowing you to play some ramp / draw pre-combat and still play a creature post combat. (Not sure how budget the sword is though). These also allow you to "go infinite" with Hellkite Charger and Aggravated Assault in the form of infinite attack steps.
Plated Crusher is a really good beatdown creature. Trample + hexproof is awesome on a big creature. See it as Carnage Tyrant's little brother.
I like Rhonas the Indomitable as a card, but i'm not sure it fits here. If you have a fatty, then that will be what you want to attack with. If you just use it for it's trample granting, Nylea, God of the Hunt is better imo as it does not tie up your mana for the trample giving part.
How good is Bloodbraid Elf for you? For four mana, you ideally either want to play a creature that will attack turn 5 or something to increase damage output. Power < CMC is not a good fit for this deck unless it's a ramp creature.
Speaking of ramp, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, while not bad, is worse than Somberwald Sage. That one mana makes a lot of difference and the formidable ablity, while cute, is not needed.
Malignus is an all star in this deck. With Xenagos out, this will ko someone in one punch.
Hope this helps.
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You want your fat to be evasive and hard to deal with. Or, if it's not evasive, game-ending. A lot of your fat whiffs by just being vanilla'ish. Compare your creatures to Terra Stomper - a budget as hell option that comes out on curve, can't be countered, and tramples in for 16 to the face. Plated Crusher, justly recommended up-thread, passes this test with flying colours. Rhonas sure as hell does not. Hell, even Honored Hydra, which the OP just cut, would be a fine include in your creature base.
Cut back a bit on the whole tutor shtick. You have two things which only get Emrakul, and the Bellower cuteness is not worth a slot. Xenagod is one of those "more gun" decks, where you want to have the power to deploy a threat at your leisure, and you're a little threat-light for that. So yeah, just ram in some good evasive beaters and you should be good. Also, try to keep your rock count to a minimum - they die really easily to all sorts of things. You're green, focus on land ramp.
So many great replies so quickly! Many thanks y'all. Lot's of good recommendations here. I will add Joraga treespeaker, Selvala and somberwald stag when I get a chance. I will replace mind stone at least with one of these.
I don't like Carpet of flowers because people don't run fetchlands and shocklands in my meta. This means even the blue players don't play many islands as they don't search for them.
In defense of Bloodbraid elf: I really love this card. In my deck I have 15 ramp spells 3/under and 13 non-ramp spells 3/under. That means over half the time I get a free ramp spell with bloodbraid elf. The other 3 and less spells are great too. Cascading into Sensei's diving top, Skullclamp, Aggravated assault, a creature tutor or answer like beast within are all great early and late game. It may not have a lot of power, but it does have haste so it can get in before xenagos comes out. It's also good to play if we already have a fatty creatures out but not another fatty in hand. It adds 3 attack power without being pumped, or just provides a chump blocker for the inevitable hate this deck draws. The cascade effect is really where it's at though.
I prefer Rhonas over Nylea because Rhonas becomes a creature more easily, thus dealing more damage. Also having a blocker with deathtouch is great for me. My deck is most afraid of the board turning on me early with good creatures and killing me before I do them. In my meta, Xenagos is one of the most feared decks by far. As such, I enter my games understanding that it's going to be me vs. everyone else in many situations.
Sword of feast and famine looks usable and I do have one. I'll consider finding a place for it.
I've been hesitant about adding in more extra combat phases and the like as I worry it will draw away from an actual big creature spot.
Shaman of forgotten ways is actually a pretty broken card in this deck. I have won games off of it's second ability. Note that you can play him, give him haste with xenagos and use his ability for 12 mana. You can instantly kill off someone without creatures like this. If you have 2-3 big creatures with trample and only 2-3 opponents, his ability can win you the game that turn. He shuts down life gain decks. (And can be tutored with woodland bellower in my deck.) Saved in hand with 12 mana, he can allow you to ignore the person with the highest life total to kill off lesser players quickly. Just slam him down with haste and blast away at that last opponent with a measly 1-10 life after using his ability. Only weakness is against token decks. At his baseline, he still get's 2 mana for 3 so he's never really bad. I suppose I can understand if you have mana crypt and the like already he might not be necessary. However, he fills three really important roles in the deck: cost effective ramp, being able to kill off those last couple of opponents quick enough, and a cheaper creature to round out the curve.
@Rumpy 5897 You may have missed Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger as a target for Conduit of Ruin and From beyond. I should probably add back in Rapacious one as another target for from beyond and Fierce empath. I do understand about me being a little light on threat density though. The two eldrazi tutors allow me to answer some very specific situations. Fetching ulamog allows me to get rid of troublesome creatures, enchantments, Maze of Ith et. He also punishes self-mill graveyard based decks, massive life decks, and going wide decks.
As a general note, my deck doesn't play worldy tutor or gamble and some other cheap card draw due to cost considerations. I can see how cheaper cmc tutors might be more effective. Also, I feel the heart of my deck is more toolbox than most. We don't have many answers to permanents as we'd like, and the flexibility provided by mwonvuli to get acidic slime, or fierce empath to get ulamog or conduit of ruin into ulamog or woodland bellower into reclamation sage or another tutor solves the situation. A single land, enchantment or artifact can ruin this decks day, hence the round about tutors that can fetch answers to our biggest roadblocks. I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen more people playing at least the fierce empath/woodland bellower/conduit of ruin combo. We hate board wipes, and creature based tutors can allow us to bounce back from them surprisingly quickly. For example, someone board wipes and you have no creatures in hand. Draw empath and play it, find woodland bellower and play it to find and put into play mwonvuli beast tracker to find emrakul, the promised end and put it on top. You got 3 creatures, with 9 power split between them onto the field and best creature on top of the deck for 9 mana. Additionally, swing in with a 12/11 woodland bellower on that turn if xenagos is still out. Alternatively, save conduit of ruin in hand early game until after that first boardwipe. Play him, get in for 10 damage and get ulamog in order to keep the creature count low, or emrakul for evasive power or use someone else's hand/creatures to deal with another problematic player. The deck also suffers from "I just drew all of my ramp/draw cards without any good creatures" and "Sometimes I just wish I had an early blocker out to stop people from ganging up on me so early" syndrome. These tutors help fill the role. I am usually the target from the beginning of the game. Getting creatures out early can convince someone to swing on the person with no creatures out, saving me life.
I feel like having some cheap creature tutors actually enables the "Have a threat to deploy at my leisure" aspect. I can fit in the tutor creature early game between ramp spells or if I don't have any at all. Then search for the best creature for the situation as opposed to having one more individual fatty that can't search in hand. Fierce empath let's us get any 6 drop creature out if we have 9 mana, not that hard to do.
Of significant note on the back of this discussion is that people in my play group aren't playing many exile creature/enchantment cards. For me, once xenagos is out, he's usually out for the entire game or maybe cast twice during a game. Therefore, my goal is to turn on xenagos as a creature asap for defense and extra damage as opposed to the usual "Keep xenagos an enchantment so he can't be exiled as a creature" mindset.
Having tutorable answers isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you often come across things that absolutely need to go away or else your deck isn't doing anything.
However, some tutors do take away from the average speed of the deck unless they are very efficient. Chump-blocking value honestly isn't very much value unless you are constantly facing off against 8-10 power creatures with no evasion. We can abuse 3+ power bodies with some amount of help (I almost killed someone once just with a 3/3 monkey from the amount of damage amp I had) but 1 power bodies with no additional utility are difficult to justify in my opinion.
My personal preference is to go for heavy deck manipulation as it is cost efficient compared to 3cmc+ tutoring. There is merit in having large bodies that exist purely for utility, but we pay a lot for utility as it is, and so I'd much rather try to slot in something evasive that can get a decent amount of non-damage value simply from hitting someone.
To understand the context of my meta.. Well, my things tend to not last very long, and this deck's pieces in particular are aggressively targeted. I think people remember the games that were completely lost off of a Sneak Attack or a Selvala, Heart of the Wilds that was left alone for one too many turns. They also know that I need to get set up fairly fast if I want to become archenemy, which is why I generally prefer to be in second place so I don't receive all of the heat.
My personal preference is to go for heavy deck manipulation as it is cost efficient compared to 3cmc+ tutoring.
Do you mean cards like Sensei's diving top, Greater good, selvala and the like?
Can people post their most current decklists please? I'm also wondering about the average cmc of people's decks. You can plug your list into tappedout.net to calculate it in a couple of minutes. My deck is 4.08 cmc, which I think may be higher than most. More importantly, where do people fall in the number of ramp/card advantage/answers/extra damage/tutor categories in their decks? If you don't have time to organize the decklist, just the raw number in each category is what I'm curious about.
+Selvala, Heart of the Wild
+Joraga, Treespeaker
+Tireless Tracker
+Savage Ventmaw
+Siege Behemoth
Selvala and joraga are both great additions to the mana ramp category. I worry about fitting in somberwald stag as well. Becoming too creature/artifact dependent for ramp isn't good for me. The missing tireless tracker was an oversight. Savage ventmaw and siege behemoth bulk up the evasion category. I like adding dragons to a deck with Atarka, world render in it. Also ventmaw helps with a problem I face of having too many cards in hand early/midgame.
wubbajub and others were right that some of the tutoring was a bit too round-about. Mwonvuli doesn't get stuff into hand which isn't good, neither is from beyond. Woodland Bellower/Fierce Empath combo is too strong to give up. I do find tutoring for answers quite useful fairly often. These two in same deck means we can get the best big creature into hand, or reclamation sage onto the battlefield for 6 to 9 mana by drawing either of these cards. My lack of more $expensive cards in the tutor and 6 drop category is probably why these are preferably for me. I feel this combo could be useful for just about anyone missing one of the more ideal tutor or deck manipulation cards. The ability to tutor for Reclamation Sage or Ulamog does wonders for me. Doesn't everyone else run into nasty enchantments/artifacts/lands/creatures YOU REALLY NEED GONE in order to win? Xenagos doesn't like being disabled in the combat, creature, ramp or card draw category throughout the game and artifacts/enchantment can really get you down in those ways.
Many thanks for all of the great advice and responses! I have learned so much!
So, I actually recall some time ago asking for a 4GG 7/6 hexproof trampler.
I got exactly that, and they made it uncounterable! This thing should be the go-to card for guaranteeing a smackdown on people. I'm just hoping I don't have to pay $10 for this Carnage Tyrant. I know for a fact that Eternal Witness is getting the boot for it. Recursion is nice but I'm not overly picky on the type of card I need to get back. If it's a threat then I'm probably better off just having it be another one and I rarely need a second dose of card draw.
The other card that deserves attention is Shaper's Sanctuary. It's not really a card advantage tool against spot removal, as you only basically break even, but the place where it really shines is against Maze of Ith players. If you attack these players and force a maze activation, you draw a card. We care about the fact that this card triggers on abilities that target your stuff and that makes it an interesting meta call!
Also, I haven't gotten a good reason to put Grafted Wargear + Godo in the deck yet. The reason is meta considerations. Nature's Claim and Rakdos Charm are seen in every deck that can support the colors, so the idea of losing my attacker to a 1 mana green spell is really not amazing. I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to deliver a worthy representation of how Godo can work in my version. I can blame Marchesa, the Black Rose for partially fueling this shift.
Lastly, my games have been weird lately. After some time where the deck's consistency wasn't getting there despite the tools I have, now I pulled out this deck five times recently and four out of the five times it completely demolished my opponents. The other game I just didn't draw enough threats and almost went for taking out my opponent with a 3/3 monkey..
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I know it's not technically card draw but how do you feel about Traverse the Outlands for this deck? We know this deck is mana hungry and you will get all the basics from your entire deck postcombat, boosting both mana and draw quality (And the size of Kessig Wolf run activations).
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I've been really thinking about it. The real question is, if I add it, what am I taking out? A lot of cards I already run effectively cheat on mana, and all things considered I'd much rather have too many cards in hand than too much mana but no cards to spend it on.
Okay, I'll look into it but I'll probably cut Relentless Assault or Vexing Shusher to try it out. I must cut a support card to keep everything as balanced as possible. I might be looking into this the wrong way by thinking about cutting card draw, which is out of the question.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Something that pretty much only dies to a boardwipe (that only some decks run) and is bigger than everything else actually has quite a real chance.
I know that I would be terrified to face this as a control player. Most hard boardwipes are in white and ALL of the soft boardwipes don't kill this thing. I don't know what else in Standard can actually deal with this thing..
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
And trample!
There are 3 dino's so far that aren't overcosted.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Emrakul is still proving immensely difficult to test (mostly due to lack of sufficient datapoints), although one time I was able to cheat the mana cost with an Elvish Piper.
Two changes 10/7/2017
- Eternal Witness - There is enough redundancy that I can feel comfortable cutting all of my recursion. I simply want to draw more over recurring a card every single time
- Vexing Shusher - I'm replacing this with a card that is more... multifunctional.
+ Carnage Tyrant - This is now our go-to card for stomping people and being able to get away with it. Very little can stop this card from getting its initial damage in, and it will likely survive to do more!
+ Autumn's Veil - This card stops both counterspells and black and blue removal. There is a surprising amount of good removal in blue these days, so I'm basically giving up the ability to stop Swords to Plowshares in exchange for being able to stop counterspells. Also, a lot of good white removal outside of it is multicolored, and Chaos Warp and Beast Within are basically the only excellent creature removal spells in those colors anyway. so I don't expect it to be dead very often.
Also, today I tried to draw 22 cards on turn 5 after thrashing two people for half of their life total (I wanted to avoid attacking players with open mana to do so), and someone played Notion Thief on me. Friggen wrecked.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I saw my 22 cards upon the first shuffle. If it had resolved, I would have a good chance of annihilating even this big game.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Someone else gracefully loaned me their commander so that I could accelerate the beatdown of the guy who drew 22 cards.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
My meta is small and under-powered. Not many counterspells, boardwipes, spot removal and no infinite combos. It is basically xenagos's dream.
The deck has a different tutor package than most. I play a woodland bellower Fierce empath Mwonvuli beast tracker combo. Empath gets bellower which gets mwonvuli into play. Reclamation sage can also be fetched by bellower which is nice.
Conduit of ruin is another odd tutor that I've found useful. The deck needs more card advantage and tutors on a stick help somewhat. Ruin can also lead to an insanely early ulamog, the ceaseless hunger or Emrakul, the promised end.
A card I've been playing with is Praetor's counsel. Between Reliquary tower, counsel and sylvan scrying, I stand a good chance of finding a no maximum hand size card when drawing a huge number. It's also pretty good mid/late game after a board wipe or when the graveyard naturally fills up.
The deck doesn't have as consistent early card draw as the one on the main page. I've added mana rocks that can draw cards in mind stone, Commander's Sphere and Hedron Archive. This attempts to help fill the gap card draw wise, though it doesn't do the best job it seems.
I feel like the deck is having a hard time balancing its card draw with creatures. It can get screwed when I have card draw that's creature based but no big creature to use it on. On the other hand, big draw effects save our asses in long games/against board wipes. I think the deck needs another 6 drop creature perhaps. Thoughts?
I ordered this by card use in the deck and cmc. If you want to see it by card type and cmc go here
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-12-17-xenagos-god-of-revels/ choose ordering by cmc on a small drop down menu.
1 Rhonas the indomitable
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Deadbridge Goliath
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 vorapede
1 rapacious one
1 Thunderfoot Baloth
1 carnage tyrant
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Emrakul, the promised end
Ramp 16
1 sol ring
1 birds of paradise
1 wild growth
1 Sylvan scrying
1 gruul signet
1 Nature's Lore
1 Mind stone
1 Cultivate
1 Commander's sphere
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Wood elves
1 shaman of forgotten ways
1 overgrowth
1 Thran dynamo
1 Hedron Archive
1 Green sun's zenith
1 Mwonvuli Beast Tracker
1 Fierce empath
1 from beyond
1 primal command
1 Woodland bellower
1 conduit of ruin
Card advantage 13
1 skullclamp
1 sensei's divining top
1 cream of the crop
1 life's legacy
1 yavimaya elder
1 hunter's insight
1 lifecrafter's bestiary
1 momentous fall
1 greater good
1 harmonize
1 rishkar's expertise
1 soul of the harvest
Extra damage/combat 5
1 aggravated assault
1 Relentless assault
1 chandra's ignition
1 berserkers' onslaught
1 Hellkite charger
1 pathbreaker ibex
Answers 7
1 reclamation sage
1 beast within
1 Chaos warp
1 decimate
1 Acidic Slime
1 hellkite tyrant
1 Ulamog, the ceaseless Hunger
14 forest
1 mountain
1 spinerock knoll
1 mosswort bridge
1 temple of abandon
1 copperline gorge
1 arid mesa
1 mossfire valley
1 windswept heath
1 fire-lit thicket
1 stomping ground
1 wooded foothills
1 sheltered thicket
1 game trail
1 karplusan forest
1 command tower
1 rootbound crag
1 cinder glade
1 bloodstained mire
1 gruul turf
1 temple of the false god
1 Myriad landscape
1 reliquary tower
1 kessig wolf run
1 rogue's passage
Tutors in theory are pretty good, and they are sometimes important for when you want a very specific beater, but a lot of the deck is built upon redundancy and so unless they get a significant range of tools in your deck (Green Sun, Gamble, Worldly Tutor), then the tutoring effects aren't nearly as strong as they seem.
I personally think that you are missing two of the best (and not very expensive) hyper-ramp options available: Joraga Treespeaker and Carpet of Flowers. The latter can be skipped if literally no one plays blue, but treespeaker gets you 5 mana on turn 3 every time you can play it on turn 1.
Also, it is a surprising thing to say, but you actually lack some amount of damage in this list. Seize the Day, Combat Celebrant, Blood Mist, and Strionic Resonator (which I cut for Blood Mist) are some options. Temur Battle Rage if you want a one-shot effect that is much cheaper but with less impact. Additionally, if you play a beater that does not have evasion, it better have some insane damage potential to make up for it.
If you are lacking card draw, Tireless Tracker is no longer in standard rotation so you should consider picking one up.
Lastly, I'd highly HIGHLY recommend picking up Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. If she is allowed to live, she gives you very good odds of winning the game. Tapping for 13-21 mana is broken on a fundamental level.
As for my deck's changes, I made the following.
Since Grove of the Burnwillows is really cheap now, I can get the last R/G dual that I wanted but never could buy at its price.
ALso, I am replacing Honored Hydra (because it's pretty meh outside of removal-heavy scenarios) with Territorial Hellkite.
I actually like that hellkite a lot in testing. It does a lot of damage for its cost, although you lose the ability to focus your damage. It is used to soften up your opponents and as really good draw fodder. However, this kind of card falls short in a meta where you are always the "second place deck" where people essentially give you free reign to beat up whoever is in first place. This kind of meta is one where creatures that can focus down a player are at their best. Be mindful of your meta before deciding to play this card.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Hope this helps.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Cut back a bit on the whole tutor shtick. You have two things which only get Emrakul, and the Bellower cuteness is not worth a slot. Xenagod is one of those "more gun" decks, where you want to have the power to deploy a threat at your leisure, and you're a little threat-light for that. So yeah, just ram in some good evasive beaters and you should be good. Also, try to keep your rock count to a minimum - they die really easily to all sorts of things. You're green, focus on land ramp.
I don't like Carpet of flowers because people don't run fetchlands and shocklands in my meta. This means even the blue players don't play many islands as they don't search for them.
In defense of Bloodbraid elf: I really love this card. In my deck I have 15 ramp spells 3/under and 13 non-ramp spells 3/under. That means over half the time I get a free ramp spell with bloodbraid elf. The other 3 and less spells are great too. Cascading into Sensei's diving top, Skullclamp, Aggravated assault, a creature tutor or answer like beast within are all great early and late game. It may not have a lot of power, but it does have haste so it can get in before xenagos comes out. It's also good to play if we already have a fatty creatures out but not another fatty in hand. It adds 3 attack power without being pumped, or just provides a chump blocker for the inevitable hate this deck draws. The cascade effect is really where it's at though.
I prefer Rhonas over Nylea because Rhonas becomes a creature more easily, thus dealing more damage. Also having a blocker with deathtouch is great for me. My deck is most afraid of the board turning on me early with good creatures and killing me before I do them. In my meta, Xenagos is one of the most feared decks by far. As such, I enter my games understanding that it's going to be me vs. everyone else in many situations.
Sword of feast and famine looks usable and I do have one. I'll consider finding a place for it.
I've been hesitant about adding in more extra combat phases and the like as I worry it will draw away from an actual big creature spot.
Shaman of forgotten ways is actually a pretty broken card in this deck. I have won games off of it's second ability. Note that you can play him, give him haste with xenagos and use his ability for 12 mana. You can instantly kill off someone without creatures like this. If you have 2-3 big creatures with trample and only 2-3 opponents, his ability can win you the game that turn. He shuts down life gain decks. (And can be tutored with woodland bellower in my deck.) Saved in hand with 12 mana, he can allow you to ignore the person with the highest life total to kill off lesser players quickly. Just slam him down with haste and blast away at that last opponent with a measly 1-10 life after using his ability. Only weakness is against token decks. At his baseline, he still get's 2 mana for 3 so he's never really bad. I suppose I can understand if you have mana crypt and the like already he might not be necessary. However, he fills three really important roles in the deck: cost effective ramp, being able to kill off those last couple of opponents quick enough, and a cheaper creature to round out the curve.
@Rumpy 5897 You may have missed Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger as a target for Conduit of Ruin and From beyond. I should probably add back in Rapacious one as another target for from beyond and Fierce empath. I do understand about me being a little light on threat density though. The two eldrazi tutors allow me to answer some very specific situations. Fetching ulamog allows me to get rid of troublesome creatures, enchantments, Maze of Ith et. He also punishes self-mill graveyard based decks, massive life decks, and going wide decks.
As a general note, my deck doesn't play worldy tutor or gamble and some other cheap card draw due to cost considerations. I can see how cheaper cmc tutors might be more effective. Also, I feel the heart of my deck is more toolbox than most. We don't have many answers to permanents as we'd like, and the flexibility provided by mwonvuli to get acidic slime, or fierce empath to get ulamog or conduit of ruin into ulamog or woodland bellower into reclamation sage or another tutor solves the situation. A single land, enchantment or artifact can ruin this decks day, hence the round about tutors that can fetch answers to our biggest roadblocks. I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen more people playing at least the fierce empath/woodland bellower/conduit of ruin combo. We hate board wipes, and creature based tutors can allow us to bounce back from them surprisingly quickly. For example, someone board wipes and you have no creatures in hand. Draw empath and play it, find woodland bellower and play it to find and put into play mwonvuli beast tracker to find emrakul, the promised end and put it on top. You got 3 creatures, with 9 power split between them onto the field and best creature on top of the deck for 9 mana. Additionally, swing in with a 12/11 woodland bellower on that turn if xenagos is still out. Alternatively, save conduit of ruin in hand early game until after that first boardwipe. Play him, get in for 10 damage and get ulamog in order to keep the creature count low, or emrakul for evasive power or use someone else's hand/creatures to deal with another problematic player. The deck also suffers from "I just drew all of my ramp/draw cards without any good creatures" and "Sometimes I just wish I had an early blocker out to stop people from ganging up on me so early" syndrome. These tutors help fill the role. I am usually the target from the beginning of the game. Getting creatures out early can convince someone to swing on the person with no creatures out, saving me life.
I feel like having some cheap creature tutors actually enables the "Have a threat to deploy at my leisure" aspect. I can fit in the tutor creature early game between ramp spells or if I don't have any at all. Then search for the best creature for the situation as opposed to having one more individual fatty that can't search in hand. Fierce empath let's us get any 6 drop creature out if we have 9 mana, not that hard to do.
Of significant note on the back of this discussion is that people in my play group aren't playing many exile creature/enchantment cards. For me, once xenagos is out, he's usually out for the entire game or maybe cast twice during a game. Therefore, my goal is to turn on xenagos as a creature asap for defense and extra damage as opposed to the usual "Keep xenagos an enchantment so he can't be exiled as a creature" mindset.
Many thanks again y'all!
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
However, some tutors do take away from the average speed of the deck unless they are very efficient. Chump-blocking value honestly isn't very much value unless you are constantly facing off against 8-10 power creatures with no evasion. We can abuse 3+ power bodies with some amount of help (I almost killed someone once just with a 3/3 monkey from the amount of damage amp I had) but 1 power bodies with no additional utility are difficult to justify in my opinion.
My personal preference is to go for heavy deck manipulation as it is cost efficient compared to 3cmc+ tutoring. There is merit in having large bodies that exist purely for utility, but we pay a lot for utility as it is, and so I'd much rather try to slot in something evasive that can get a decent amount of non-damage value simply from hitting someone.
To understand the context of my meta.. Well, my things tend to not last very long, and this deck's pieces in particular are aggressively targeted. I think people remember the games that were completely lost off of a Sneak Attack or a Selvala, Heart of the Wilds that was left alone for one too many turns. They also know that I need to get set up fairly fast if I want to become archenemy, which is why I generally prefer to be in second place so I don't receive all of the heat.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Doh! I was already wondering why I had not included it myself yet... this is why
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Do you mean cards like Sensei's diving top, Greater good, selvala and the like?
Can people post their most current decklists please? I'm also wondering about the average cmc of people's decks. You can plug your list into tappedout.net to calculate it in a couple of minutes. My deck is 4.08 cmc, which I think may be higher than most. More importantly, where do people fall in the number of ramp/card advantage/answers/extra damage/tutor categories in their decks? If you don't have time to organize the decklist, just the raw number in each category is what I'm curious about.
Here's the changes based on recommendations from y'all:
-from beyond
-conduit of ruin
-mwonuli beast tracker
-Hedron Archive
-Deadbridge Goliath
+Selvala, Heart of the Wild
+Joraga, Treespeaker
+Tireless Tracker
+Savage Ventmaw
+Siege Behemoth
Selvala and joraga are both great additions to the mana ramp category. I worry about fitting in somberwald stag as well. Becoming too creature/artifact dependent for ramp isn't good for me. The missing tireless tracker was an oversight. Savage ventmaw and siege behemoth bulk up the evasion category. I like adding dragons to a deck with Atarka, world render in it. Also ventmaw helps with a problem I face of having too many cards in hand early/midgame.
wubbajub and others were right that some of the tutoring was a bit too round-about. Mwonvuli doesn't get stuff into hand which isn't good, neither is from beyond. Woodland Bellower/Fierce Empath combo is too strong to give up. I do find tutoring for answers quite useful fairly often. These two in same deck means we can get the best big creature into hand, or reclamation sage onto the battlefield for 6 to 9 mana by drawing either of these cards. My lack of more $expensive cards in the tutor and 6 drop category is probably why these are preferably for me. I feel this combo could be useful for just about anyone missing one of the more ideal tutor or deck manipulation cards. The ability to tutor for Reclamation Sage or Ulamog does wonders for me. Doesn't everyone else run into nasty enchantments/artifacts/lands/creatures YOU REALLY NEED GONE in order to win? Xenagos doesn't like being disabled in the combat, creature, ramp or card draw category throughout the game and artifacts/enchantment can really get you down in those ways.
Many thanks for all of the great advice and responses! I have learned so much!
Current decklist:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/aa-xenagos-updated/
1 Rhonas the indomitable
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 vorapede
1 rapacious one
1 Thunderfoot Baloth
1 carnage tyrant
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Siege Behemoth
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Emrakul, the promised end
Ramp 18
1 sol ring
1 birds of paradise
1 wild growth
1 Joraga, Treespeaker
1 Sylvan scrying
1 gruul signet
1 Nature's Lore
1 Mind stone
1 Cultivate
1 Commander's sphere
1 Selvala, Heart of the wild
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Wood elves
1 shaman of forgotten ways
1 overgrowth
1 Thran dynamo
1 Savage ventmaw
1 Green sun's zenith
1 Fierce empath
1 primal command
1 Woodland bellower
Card advantage 13
1 skullclamp
1 sensei's divining top
1 cream of the crop
1 life's legacy
1 yavimaya elder
1 Tireless Tracker
1 hunter's insight
1 lifecrafter's bestiary
1 momentous fall
1 greater good
1 harmonize
1 rishkar's expertise
1 soul of the harvest
Extra damage/combat 6
1 aggravated assault
1 Relentless assault
1 chandra's ignition
1 berserkers' onslaught
1 Hellkite charger
1 pathbreaker ibex
Answers 7
1 reclamation sage
1 beast within
1 Chaos warp
1 decimate
1 Acidic Slime
1 hellkite tyrant
1 Ulamog, the ceaseless Hunger
14 forest
1 mountain
1 spinerock knoll
1 mosswort bridge
1 temple of abandon
1 copperline gorge
1 arid mesa
1 mossfire valley
1 windswept heath
1 fire-lit thicket
1 stomping ground
1 wooded foothills
1 sheltered thicket
1 game trail
1 karplusan forest
1 command tower
1 rootbound crag
1 cinder glade
1 bloodstained mire
1 gruul turf
1 temple of the false god
1 Myriad landscape
1 reliquary tower
1 kessig wolf run
1 rogue's passage
1x Managorger Hydra
1x Territorial Hellkite
1x Malignus
1x Carnage Tyrant
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Hydra Omnivore
1x Pathbreaker Ibex
1x Rapacious One
1x Savage Ventmaw
1x Scourge of the Throne
1x Atarka, World Render
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Plated Crusher
1x Siege Behemoth
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
RAMP 11 (13)
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
1x Somberwald Sage
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Frontier Siege
1x Nature's Lore
1x Elvish Piper
1x Sneak Attack
UTILITY 6
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Nature's Will
1x Mimic Vat
1x Dense Foliage
1x Vines of Vastwood
1x Autumn's Veil
DAMAGE AMP 7
1x Combat Celebrant
1x Aggravated Assault
1x Blood Mist
1x Relentless Assault
1x Seize the Day
1x Chandra's Ignition (also removal)
1x World at War
CARD SELECTION 3
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Mirri's Guile
1x Sylvan Library (also CA)
CARD ADVANTAGE 8 (9)
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Greater Good
1x Life's Legacy
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Harmonize
1x Rishkar's Expertise
1x Hunter's Insight
1x Momentous Fall
1x Caustic Caterpillar
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Nature's Claim
1x Deglamer
1x Beast Within
1x Chaos Warp
TUTORS 3 (5)
1x Gamble
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Worldly Tutor
MULTIFUNCTIONAL: (Tutor + ramp) (removal + damage amp)
1x Crop Rotation (Ancient Tomb makes this ramp)
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Chandra's Ignition
Also, just going to say it, but you REALLY need a Strip Mine in your list. Absolutely mandatory for Maze of Ith and the like.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.