I woke up realizing that Mana Geyser doesn't allow us to store the spare mana in between phases, which is a big downside considering that we go play creature, attack, then play stuff after the attack. That is a humongous downside compared to our crazy mana generating creatures. I'll still try it for a couple games, but now I'm convinced that it's going to be too narrow.
EDIT: I've been goldfishing and even then this card kinda sucks. Not because of the variance in the amount of mana generated, but because there are so many green cards that I want to play out and my aforementioned problem. It's really quite bad. It is good with Aggravated Assault and Flameshadow Conjuring, and probably win-more when I already have 14 cards in hand.
Here's a sample play-by-play where Geyser would be completely useless. It was a pretty stupid sequence, but this is why the aforementioned downside is huge. I'd much rather play Nature's Will because it basically turns everything into a ventmaw.
Turn 1: Joraga Treespeaker
Turn 2: Level it up
Turn 3: Play Elvish Piper, Worldly Tutor at EoT for Savage Ventmaw
Turn 4: Play Xenagod and piper in Savage Ventmaw. Attack with it and gain 6 mana. Cast World at War, attack again. Then with the 7 mana left cast Harmonize and then play Mimic Vat off the harmonize.
Turn 5: WaW rebounds, cast Greenwarden of Murasa getting back Harmonize (I have a piper and 12 potential mana!), swing ventmaw once, cast harmonize, swing ventmaw again... you get the picture.
Now that I think about it, I should just try out Nature's Will instead.. I need to play it before my attacks, but everything turning into a pseudo-Rapacious One seems too good to pass up.
Now that I think about it, I should just try out Nature's Will instead.. I need to play it before my attacks, but everything turning into a pseudo-Rapacious One seems too good to pass up.
Speaking of 4 mana "ramp" spells, I've recently added From Beyond to my deck (which has yet to be updated). It has worked great in the two games I have played with it, creating blockers, getting that extra mana when needed, and being able to replace itself by tutoring for Rapacious One, Conduit of Ruin, and Void Winnower. Since I no longer have need for Awakening Zone I may bring in another extra combat phase card or Nature's Will/Bear Umbra.
The important part about Nature's Will in comparison to cards like Bear Umbra is that you can pay for the effect as setup before your first attack. With Bear Umbra, you need to either have 4 extra mana to pay during your turn (hard), or you need to play it the turn after you already attacked with it. In either case, you risk blowout by removal spell. Granted, with the former, you need to connect to get the bonus, but that usually isn't a problem in this deck considering how humongous your power stats on all your trampling threats become.
This card reminds me of the very first build that ran Sword of Feast and Famine. The land untap was really really good. The pro-green preventing me from targeting with Xenagod buffs wasn't. So I have good expectations for Nature's Will.
I haven't gotten enough testing with Greenwarden to decide if it's good enough. However, it sure is better than Deadwood Treefolk here.
I'm currently running five extra combat cards. Hellkite Charger and Savage Beating are the ones I notably am not running here. Sometimes it can be hard to find the mana to spare for Aggravated Assault, much less charger (although charger is a beater, even if a fairly bad one here), and Savage Beating costs so much for me to have available. The latter would be great on the resilient threats such as the hexproof guys.
Relentless Assault is quite basic but I like it because it does the job. I also don't feel like I need any more extra combat cards, no matter how much I like those cards. Although I can see an argument for cutting it for Savage Beating. It's only one more mana for the important part and that's not an incredibly painful deal.
EDIT: Oh, I also want to test Frontier Siege. It's not ramp that gets to Xenagos quickly, but it allows me to play six-drops and follow it up with something that costs 4. However, the downside, like Skyshroud Claim, is that it is pretty slow when I don't ramp INTO it. I like it more than claim here due to the "each main phase" clause. Also the dragons side would be.. very occasionally relevant.
Lastly I need to get a scroll rack. The card would be really good for hitting the right ratio of stuff more often. It also goes absolutely nuts if you ever resolve any draw. It is $24 though and card acquisition for me is on the backburner right now. One reason why I haven't made a primer application yet.
In any case, I don't think the mana savings on Dramatic Entrance is enough to justify using it. I can see using it on end steps to try and overload countermagic, but the real kicker is that you can only cheat out green creatures with it. I'd probably play dedicated hate like Pyroblast for forcing stuff through counters before playing this for that purpose. Also, yes, Mana Geyser is pretty bad against draw-go, but I can say that this deck in its current configuration (or even as a whole) is pretty bad against that archetype. We are losing horribly in the tempo exchange when our 5+ drops get countered or killed repeatably by removal or counterspells that cost 2-3 mana. We have cards that can help if they get through, but you need to be able to draw them when you need them and with the exception of Dosan it is not easy to just grab them at will.
You might try Vexing Shusher to provide some backup against blue decks though he doesn't help against spot removal. I've been really liking Vines of Vastwood as both a protection and pump spell in one. Super hexproof is great and the pump combined with Xenagos gets a 1/1 into a 10/10 which is plenty of extra cards with Greater Good or similar.
Lastly, I'm revamping the ramp suite a tiny bit more. I'm thinking of testing cards like Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth. The idea is that they are 1 mana accelerants that A) Work on turn 1. B) Don't die to sweepers like mana dorks do, and C) Most importantly, they pay for themselves when you need to unload cards quickly due to overdrawing. Many of my heavy dork draws I've been finding are fast but fragile gameplans, and I would want to leave only treespeaker and birds as our 1-drop accelerants. I'm leaning towards the latter rather than the former because sprawl requires a forest we may not have on turn 1. The mana fixing is a non-issue in this deck.
I play Utopia Sprawl and like it a lot but my ramp package is more aggressive and I run a higher forest count (18 vs 15). Ironically I actually need more fixing so that part is quite helpful but you're probably not running into similar issues so Wild Growth is probably the better card. I do like the effect they provide.
I did want to report that I've been playing Blazing Shoal and that card is just absolutely amazing. You have Blasphemous Act among other high cost red spells to give a large boost and even a +4 on a 1/1 with Xenagos in play could be 10 cards you draw. It's free, instant speed and offers a potentially gigantic buff.
My last recommendation is to play some manlands. I'm currently running Treetop Village and Mishra's Factory since they're both cheap to activate and with a Xenagos activation can net me 6 cards with the draw spells. In really desperate situations you can also attack your opponents with them and they make acceptable blockers to deter small creatures. Low impact but at a very reasonable cost of inclusion.
The important part about Nature's Will in comparison to cards like Bear Umbra is that you can pay for the effect as setup before your first attack. With Bear Umbra, you need to either have 4 extra mana to pay during your turn (hard), or you need to play it the turn after you already attacked with it. In either case, you risk blowout by removal spell. Granted, with the former, you need to connect to get the bonus, but that usually isn't a problem in this deck considering how humongous your power stats on all your trampling threats become.
This card reminds me of the very first build that ran Sword of Feast and Famine. The land untap was really really good. The pro-green preventing me from targeting with Xenagod buffs wasn't. So I have good expectations for Nature's Will.
I may not be understanding you correctly, but both Bear Umbra and Nature's Will require you to play them before you attack in order for them to get the triggers. Doesn't matter which card you play, you will need four mana regardless to cast it and also need a beater on board to get it going. Bear Umbra does require you to have a target in order for it to work, and yes there is the chance that you open yourself up for a two-for-one before resolution, but being able to untap your mana before you attack opens up different instant speed options that you can take advantage of. For example, while you do not play Hellkite Charger, after re-reading it the ability only triggers during the declaration of attack. Should you not have the mana to spend right then and there, you won't be able to activate the ability for an additional combat phase. Unfortunately, Nature's Will doesn't work in this case. Before damage is dealt, you also may not be able to play other instant speed options like Temur Battle Rage or Savage Beating, which again Nature's Will doesn't help with. It really seems to come down to whether you prefer to use instant speed options, or utilize strong sorcery speed cards in your second main phase like the aformentioned Relentless Assault. In your case Nature's Will does seem like a solid choice and I look forward to reading your test results.
BONUS: As an alternative to Frontier Siege (Khans choice) and because I like jank, I'd like to know what you think of Elemental Resonance as an alternative four mana "ramp" option. It competes with other notable ramp cards like Oracle of Mul Daya, Explosive Vegetation, and of course Nature's Will. This card came to mind while flipping through my EDH box when assessing Bear Umbra. With Aura cards you want to choose resilient targets to avoid getting two-for-one'd. In this deck, Elemental Resonance has a great indestructible target with Xenagos. While not as safe as pure ramp options like Explosive Vegetation, getting 3RG every main phase one seems pretty great.
The important part about Nature's Will in comparison to cards like Bear Umbra is that you can pay for the effect as setup before your first attack. With Bear Umbra, you need to either have 4 extra mana to pay during your turn (hard), or you need to play it the turn after you already attacked with it. In either case, you risk blowout by removal spell. Granted, with the former, you need to connect to get the bonus, but that usually isn't a problem in this deck considering how humongous your power stats on all your trampling threats become.
This card reminds me of the very first build that ran Sword of Feast and Famine. The land untap was really really good. The pro-green preventing me from targeting with Xenagod buffs wasn't. So I have good expectations for Nature's Will.
I may not be understanding you correctly, but both Bear Umbra and Nature's Will require you to play them before you attack in order for them to get the triggers. Doesn't matter which card you play, you will need four mana regardless to cast it and also need a beater on board to get it going. Bear Umbra does require you to have a target in order for it to work, and yes there is the chance that you open yourself up for a two-for-one before resolution, but being able to untap your mana before you attack opens up different instant speed options that you can take advantage of. For example, while you do not play Hellkite Charger, after re-reading it the ability only triggers during the declaration of attack. Should you not have the mana to spend right then and there, you won't be able to activate the ability for an additional combat phase. Unfortunately, Nature's Will doesn't work in this case. Before damage is dealt, you also may not be able to play other instant speed options like Temur Battle Rage or Savage Beating, which again Nature's Will doesn't help with. It really seems to come down to whether you prefer to use instant speed options, or utilize strong sorcery speed cards in your second main phase like the aformentioned Relentless Assault. In your case Nature's Will does seem like a solid choice and I look forward to reading your test results.
BONUS: As an alternative to Frontier Siege (Khans choice) and because I like jank, I'd like to know what you think of Elemental Resonance as an alternative four mana "ramp" option. It competes with other notable ramp cards like Oracle of Mul Daya, Explosive Vegetation, and of course Nature's Will. This card came to mind while flipping through my EDH box when assessing Bear Umbra. With Aura cards you want to choose resilient targets to avoid getting two-for-one'd. In this deck, Elemental Resonance has a great indestructible target with Xenagos. While not as safe as pure ramp options like Explosive Vegetation, getting 3RG every main phase one seems pretty great.
I mean that Nature's Will can be played without a creature on board but Bear Umbra needs one to be around before you can cast it.
Also.. Wow.. Elemental Resonance. That's a card I've never seen in this deck before... and it sounds amazing.
I must try this! So much for testing Frontier Siege! Actually I might try both and see which one is better. In optimal situations they're both good, but I want to see the subtle differences in these cards.
Although I just realized that resonance doesn't curve out nearly as well. Nature's Will I don't count as ramp but more like an "overall deck synergy piece". I'm really liking the whole way the deck plays stuff during both of its phases consistently so cards like Frontier Siege can be both that and ramp.
Playing Blazing Shoal would be really good with mana dorks so that I consistently have bodies to use as draw conduits. Alas, I'm cutting all except the best ones for mine. It is also insanely good with draw effects.
As for manlands, I'm considering running factory but I'd have to cut Haven for it and I'm not fully done evaluating that card yet. The other colorless nonbasics are super uncuttable.
Playing Blazing Shoal would be really good with mana dorks so that I consistently have bodies to use as draw conduits. Alas, I'm cutting all except the best ones for mine. It is also insanely good with draw effects.
As for manlands, I'm considering running factory but I'd have to cut Haven for it and I'm not fully done evaluating that card yet. The other colorless nonbasics are super uncuttable.
My example above was mainly to illustrate it’s usefulness on even tiny creatures when you don’t have an expensive red card in hand. It’s regular use is to cast it on already decent sized creatures and get them into lethal quickly, it just happens to be a very good pump spell if you have a power matters draw card in hand and any creature at all really. I was skeptical at first too but it has consistently been a great performer for me and I have a lower creature count, far less expensive red spells to pitch to it and the pump effect is less valuable to me (since all my finishers are already lethal with Xenagos) so I think it’s actually better in your deck than mine.
Playing Blazing Shoal would be really good with mana dorks so that I consistently have bodies to use as draw conduits. Alas, I'm cutting all except the best ones for mine. It is also insanely good with draw effects.
As for manlands, I'm considering running factory but I'd have to cut Haven for it and I'm not fully done evaluating that card yet. The other colorless nonbasics are super uncuttable.
My example above was mainly to illustrate it’s usefulness on even tiny creatures when you don’t have an expensive red card in hand. It’s regular use is to cast it on already decent sized creatures and get them into lethal quickly, it just happens to be a very good pump spell if you have a power matters draw card in hand and any creature at all really. I was skeptical at first too but it has consistently been a great performer for me and I have a lower creature count, far less expensive red spells to pitch to it and the pump effect is less valuable to me (since all my finishers are already lethal with Xenagos) so I think it’s actually better in your deck than mine.
With that note I'm going to try it. Mostly because playing it for free is really good in a deck that guzzles a lot of mana. Especially brutal on the hexproof guys.
To prove that point, yesterday I got one game in and a single hit with Nature's Will out can get pretty disgusting.
I know just the person who owns one. The issue now is finding space for all the cards designed to deal with mana consumption, card drawing, or resilience issues.
It's not the worst idea if I need more damage amplification. However the drawback is a real thing. The toughness boost is a serious benefit for keeping my guys alive during combat and forcing actual removal on them. If I needed more pump past Blazing Shoal, I'd try it.
So far, Nature's Will is... kill on sight. Considering that I try very hard to resolve draw spells or extra combats ASAP after an attack, it speeds up the deck tremendously. It also combos with extra combats to cause insane damage while refunding mana and is another route to infinite combats with Aggravated Assault.
I drew Frontier Siege in one game. I was practically able to use all 4 green in both main phases almost every turn. The acceleration allowed me to have both other players dead by turn 7. Oh, I also just noticed that as a side bonus, Frontier Siege adds even more mana if you get an additional main phase off of an extra combat step.
I temporarily cut Scavenging Ooze (I hate cutting yard hate, but we can race slow GY decks and we lose to the fast ones regardless of its inclusion) and Holistic Wisdom (too slow, don't always have what I need in my yard). Considering how much I like what I'm testing, these changes have a good chance of being permanent. Realm Seekers has not even shown up yet.
Oh, I also just noticed that as a side bonus, Frontier Siege adds even more mana if you get an additional main phase off of an extra combat step.
This...this is good.
Just so I don't waste a post, I'm now looking to add Relentless Assault to the deck but another card came to mind as an additional combat phase enabler, what are your thoughts on Fury of the Horde? It has the potential to become an extra combat phase after a big draw.
Actually, about 40% of the time I have extra combats in my hand and end up using them I don't have a draw source handy, which makes the seven mana quite unattractive, even if the card is easy to cast if I ever do draw big. I'm aware that this deck is getting closer and closer to aggro-combo at this point, but I just wish it costed six and not seven! I'll keep it in the back of my mind every time I draw Relentless Assault.
I'm seriously short on testing space right now and I probably want to throw Scooze back in before I throw in any more damage amp. I got Blazing Shoal and Temur Battle Rage on my mind in case I ever try them. Inquisitor's Flail might be tried and cards like Mage Slayer are too slow for this deck. Thinking about it, I should probably be careful of how many 1-shot effects I run. At least most of my extra combat cards can potentially offer multiple extra combats/
On a side note, I want to make some comments about piloting the deck. It is incredibly straightforward for the most part. However, it is when you are trying to really pull yourself from behind that a pilot's play skill factors into how much this deck can do. As an example I drew really poorly in one game, so much so that I actually got ignored.. except for an Elvish Piper and Greater Good that both got countered because well... they're really good. Too good. Scroll Rack information told me what was on top, but what I needed was in my gy and the only way to get it is to Beast Within my own Greenwarden of Murasa. While the other players fought themselves, I ran in with a trampling Malignus, ate people, almost stole the game. I had to resist the temptation to shoot an opponent's game-winning piece with it because I knew if I did it my chances of winning go to zero. Thankfully, someone else shot it.
Flooding out hurts, but it sure beats not drawing enough lands almost every time.
You can make EVERYTHING a Hydra Omnivore? It's slow as hell but the damage potential is just so insane. The politics is super bad but this deck hasn't exactly been making stunning diplomacy achievements lately. Really needs cheat-out help to be absolute nuts. It's 4 to equip but repeatable damage amplification is stupid. We'll see if the rewards are worth the huge upfront costs. However, the real question is "do the copies also have double the power/toughness?" If not, then it probably won't be worth it.
Okay, they have base p/t due to layering rules. Now I'm far less sold on it. Still might try it.
Important detail: Xenagos grants his buff BEFORE you declare attacks.
Baseline: Terra Stomper. 8/8 uncounterable trample. Always hits for 16, but few other redeeming properties.
This essentially hits like a 6/6 trample for six because it gets the xenagos buff for 3, then gets its own attack trigger for 6. Not that impressive. Nonetheless not a worthless fail case.
However, we should look at a few more scenarios.
A) We play this first, and then follow up with another creature.
Normally when we play this deck we should always stick to one single threat to avoid overextending and because our damage output usually isn't too much better with two threats. However, with this card, if we lead off with it, then play a 7 power creature, we give the 7 power creature the xenagod buff, and then swing with both our guys to get a +14PT trigger. This means we hit for 17 + 28 damage trample. That is a significant difference in firepower! If we are lucky enough to have this card survive a pass around the table, it is repeatable! With attackers like Atarka, World Render, this thing enables us to one-shot opponents with no additional mana investment! Hydra Omnivore practically kills everyone as a 32/32 trample! NOT TO MENTION we still get to spread our damage around because the ibex hits like a truck!
This card is comparable to Thunderfoot Baloth, but WAY better at the support role because of how the Xenagos buff triggers before the ibex attack trigger.
B) We play another creature first, then follow up with this.
This is the less ideal situation, because with the same 7 power creature we are forced to give this paltry 3/3 the haste buff. This means we attack for (7+6) + 12 damage = 25 damage. Not a crazy amount by this deck's standards
C) We have this out, and we attack with it, then give ourselves an extra combat.
So we buff for 3 to go to 6 power, then it buffs team to go to 12 power. Hit for 12. We go to combat #2. We buff it for 12 going to 24 power. We have it buff team to go to 48 power. Swing for a total of 60.
All scenarios exclude the presence of utilities like mana dorks that make this card much more attractive if present on board.
Conclusion: Worth testing! Bonus points for killing our opponents mercilessly with a humongous goat!
To opponents playing against this deck: Killing this before damage from its first attack is not your highest priority, but heaven help you if you let the Xenagos player untap with this.
Well, I guess I can cut a 2-drop ramp spell for this. I'll take maximum hand size cards for little opportunity cost where I can! It's a 2 drop mana rock and the benefit is too useful here to ignore.
Okay, so I've really been liking both enchantments. I'm probably keeping both. Sorry Scooze. I want you back someday but I need to figure out where?
I'm also going to try out Pathbreaker Ibex in the place of Realm Seekers.
I'll get a Scroll Rack eventually. I'm going to cut Wheel of Fortune because it actually got stolen and also cause wheel effects, while acting as hand disruption, are actually quite poor when everyone is more or less trying to play fairly. When playing unfairly, they are significantly better, but this deck wasn't made to handle the fair decks.
Hopefully running Scroll Rack will allow me to find my existing draw a little more consistently.
I also traded for a Sneak Attack. It took quite a bit out of me but I managed to do it!
I'm cutting Insurrection because it's a card that abuses someone's developed board-state. However, against the decks I really worry about, either they're faster than me and this card probably won't be castable or I won't actually need to use it to kill everyone.
It has won games, but if I'm given a choice between this and Sneak Attack, you can surely bet that I'm playing the latter.
I generally find that Final Fortune is one of those cards that is better in very small 3 player games than in 4 player games. There are plenty of moments where the card can be dead and it is much riskier than other kinds of cards.
I didn't get too much testing in. I kept getting incredibly unlucky hands except one game where I won off of sticking Sneak Attack, sneaking in a hexproof guy, and having a bunch of extra combats.
I mostly played Mizzix against a group that is playing "not remotely broken" stuff. Now that deck is quite fun.
Final note: Caller of the Pack is being tested. (omnivore temporarily out) Flameshadow Conjuring will be removed for something (parlaying an effect when no cheat is available, especially if I need to lead with a 7-drop, is really bad)
I'm trying to figure out if I want more draw or damage. If not, I'm throwing Scavenging Ooze back in.
The deck seems to work decently well now when I draw the beef and sometimes the draw that I need to see. I've been winning a fair share of games now.
There's just two cards on the chopping block. Flameshadow Conjuring, which I have opted to already remove, and surprisingly, Hydra Omnivore.
Why the omnivore? It has the potential to wipe out whole tables. However, it is so situationally dependent on either having trample or someone with an empty board. At least Malignus makes people play around it when I'm not there as well as having other actually desirable qualities. For example, I used its "damage can't be prevented" to punch through a Solitary Confinement yesterday. I'll be temporarily swapping it out with Caller of the Pack and seeing how it does.
I'm re-testing Elemental Bond and Evolutionary Leap now that my deck has sufficiently changed enough for these to be worth another look. Other than that, if they don't make it, I'll throw Scavenging Ooze back in.
Speaking of enchantments, this deck is getting somewhat more heavy on the enchantments. And honestly, it seems to work better this way. All of the four mana enchantments are ones you really don't want to see if you are on the other side of the table. The dual method of running cards that both blank removal and offer cheap recursion through removal both work well for me, and even though I would never play some of these cards in a fast combo metagame, I prefer these cards because they are the most mana-efficient options I have and this deck guzzles mana like crazy. Speaking of which, I am also satisfied completely with the land count and ramp density of the deck. The only thing I would like to add more of are solid draw effects.
Lastly, Haven of the Spirit Dragon is going away. Never cracked it for weeks. I still run enough basics for Cinder Glade to be good, so I will run that.
- Haven of the Spirit Dragon
+ Cinder Glade
NEW RECORDS:
Biggest Pathbreaker Ibex pump: +30/+30 on 10 Eldrazi Spawn tokens.
Almost beat the record for damage dealt to an opponent in a single turn at ~255 with the 10 eldrazi spawns.
There are currently no new spoiled cards that draw my interest.
Oh, Elemental Bond failed the test. Averaging 2 cards before becoming irrelevant is not good enough. I'm thinking Evolutionary Leap might end up faring better, especially now that I am less likely to whiff on this thing. Hitting small things isn't terrible, but I don't like wasting time and attack steps if possible. Failing that, Scooze goes back in.
Frontier Siege has the immense honor of overperforming in practically all stages of the game. Early on, it is AT LEAST a ramp for 2 and late game it can potentially add more than 4 mana in a turn if I have extra combats. Recently I was able to have it generate 8 mana in a turn and I used all of it.
Greenwarden of Murasa is surprisingly good here. I have yet to be disappointed by it. It doesn't hit well, but it is quite useful against decks that repeatedly try to remove your things.
Scroll Rack needs to be drawn early to be really good. If you fail to hit draw and you get stranded in topdeck mode then it sucks obviously. It is also insanely good if you end up with a huge hand size.
Lastly I'm seriously considering Donald's suggestion of running Treetop Village. It enters tapped which sucks but even 3/3s are super relevant in this deck just as draw conduits.
Also good luck with building the deck! I'm done with finals so I should be free to keep messing with the deck.
EDIT: I've been goldfishing and even then this card kinda sucks. Not because of the variance in the amount of mana generated, but because there are so many green cards that I want to play out and my aforementioned problem. It's really quite bad. It is good with Aggravated Assault and Flameshadow Conjuring, and probably win-more when I already have 14 cards in hand.
Here's a sample play-by-play where Geyser would be completely useless. It was a pretty stupid sequence, but this is why the aforementioned downside is huge. I'd much rather play Nature's Will because it basically turns everything into a ventmaw.
Turn 1: Joraga Treespeaker
Turn 2: Level it up
Turn 3: Play Elvish Piper, Worldly Tutor at EoT for Savage Ventmaw
Turn 4: Play Xenagod and piper in Savage Ventmaw. Attack with it and gain 6 mana. Cast World at War, attack again. Then with the 7 mana left cast Harmonize and then play Mimic Vat off the harmonize.
Turn 5: WaW rebounds, cast Greenwarden of Murasa getting back Harmonize (I have a piper and 12 potential mana!), swing ventmaw once, cast harmonize, swing ventmaw again... you get the picture.
Now that I think about it, I should just try out Nature's Will instead.. I need to play it before my attacks, but everything turning into a pseudo-Rapacious One seems too good to pass up.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Nature's Will has the obvious synergy with both Aggravated Assault and Hellkite Charger. Bear Umbra works in a simliar way but untaps your lands before damage. Great on Hexproof beaters, but not so great on others.
Speaking of 4 mana "ramp" spells, I've recently added From Beyond to my deck (which has yet to be updated). It has worked great in the two games I have played with it, creating blockers, getting that extra mana when needed, and being able to replace itself by tutoring for Rapacious One, Conduit of Ruin, and Void Winnower. Since I no longer have need for Awakening Zone I may bring in another extra combat phase card or Nature's Will/Bear Umbra.
I have yet to pick one up, how has Greenwarden of Murasa been?
This card reminds me of the very first build that ran Sword of Feast and Famine. The land untap was really really good. The pro-green preventing me from targeting with Xenagod buffs wasn't. So I have good expectations for Nature's Will.
I haven't gotten enough testing with Greenwarden to decide if it's good enough. However, it sure is better than Deadwood Treefolk here.
I'm currently running five extra combat cards. Hellkite Charger and Savage Beating are the ones I notably am not running here. Sometimes it can be hard to find the mana to spare for Aggravated Assault, much less charger (although charger is a beater, even if a fairly bad one here), and Savage Beating costs so much for me to have available. The latter would be great on the resilient threats such as the hexproof guys.
Relentless Assault is quite basic but I like it because it does the job. I also don't feel like I need any more extra combat cards, no matter how much I like those cards. Although I can see an argument for cutting it for Savage Beating. It's only one more mana for the important part and that's not an incredibly painful deal.
EDIT: Oh, I also want to test Frontier Siege. It's not ramp that gets to Xenagos quickly, but it allows me to play six-drops and follow it up with something that costs 4. However, the downside, like Skyshroud Claim, is that it is pretty slow when I don't ramp INTO it. I like it more than claim here due to the "each main phase" clause. Also the dragons side would be.. very occasionally relevant.
Lastly I need to get a scroll rack. The card would be really good for hitting the right ratio of stuff more often. It also goes absolutely nuts if you ever resolve any draw. It is $24 though and card acquisition for me is on the backburner right now. One reason why I haven't made a primer application yet.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I play Utopia Sprawl and like it a lot but my ramp package is more aggressive and I run a higher forest count (18 vs 15). Ironically I actually need more fixing so that part is quite helpful but you're probably not running into similar issues so Wild Growth is probably the better card. I do like the effect they provide.
I did want to report that I've been playing Blazing Shoal and that card is just absolutely amazing. You have Blasphemous Act among other high cost red spells to give a large boost and even a +4 on a 1/1 with Xenagos in play could be 10 cards you draw. It's free, instant speed and offers a potentially gigantic buff.
My last recommendation is to play some manlands. I'm currently running Treetop Village and Mishra's Factory since they're both cheap to activate and with a Xenagos activation can net me 6 cards with the draw spells. In really desperate situations you can also attack your opponents with them and they make acceptable blockers to deter small creatures. Low impact but at a very reasonable cost of inclusion.
I may not be understanding you correctly, but both Bear Umbra and Nature's Will require you to play them before you attack in order for them to get the triggers. Doesn't matter which card you play, you will need four mana regardless to cast it and also need a beater on board to get it going. Bear Umbra does require you to have a target in order for it to work, and yes there is the chance that you open yourself up for a two-for-one before resolution, but being able to untap your mana before you attack opens up different instant speed options that you can take advantage of. For example, while you do not play Hellkite Charger, after re-reading it the ability only triggers during the declaration of attack. Should you not have the mana to spend right then and there, you won't be able to activate the ability for an additional combat phase. Unfortunately, Nature's Will doesn't work in this case. Before damage is dealt, you also may not be able to play other instant speed options like Temur Battle Rage or Savage Beating, which again Nature's Will doesn't help with. It really seems to come down to whether you prefer to use instant speed options, or utilize strong sorcery speed cards in your second main phase like the aformentioned Relentless Assault. In your case Nature's Will does seem like a solid choice and I look forward to reading your test results.
BONUS: As an alternative to Frontier Siege (Khans choice) and because I like jank, I'd like to know what you think of Elemental Resonance as an alternative four mana "ramp" option. It competes with other notable ramp cards like Oracle of Mul Daya, Explosive Vegetation, and of course Nature's Will. This card came to mind while flipping through my EDH box when assessing Bear Umbra. With Aura cards you want to choose resilient targets to avoid getting two-for-one'd. In this deck, Elemental Resonance has a great indestructible target with Xenagos. While not as safe as pure ramp options like Explosive Vegetation, getting 3RG every main phase one seems pretty great.
I mean that Nature's Will can be played without a creature on board but Bear Umbra needs one to be around before you can cast it.
Also.. Wow.. Elemental Resonance. That's a card I've never seen in this deck before... and it sounds amazing.
I must try this! So much for testing Frontier Siege! Actually I might try both and see which one is better. In optimal situations they're both good, but I want to see the subtle differences in these cards.
Although I just realized that resonance doesn't curve out nearly as well. Nature's Will I don't count as ramp but more like an "overall deck synergy piece". I'm really liking the whole way the deck plays stuff during both of its phases consistently so cards like Frontier Siege can be both that and ramp.
Playing Blazing Shoal would be really good with mana dorks so that I consistently have bodies to use as draw conduits. Alas, I'm cutting all except the best ones for mine. It is also insanely good with draw effects.
As for manlands, I'm considering running factory but I'd have to cut Haven for it and I'm not fully done evaluating that card yet. The other colorless nonbasics are super uncuttable.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
With that note I'm going to try it. Mostly because playing it for free is really good in a deck that guzzles a lot of mana. Especially brutal on the hexproof guys.
To prove that point, yesterday I got one game in and a single hit with Nature's Will out can get pretty disgusting.
I know just the person who owns one. The issue now is finding space for all the cards designed to deal with mana consumption, card drawing, or resilience issues.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
So far, Nature's Will is... kill on sight. Considering that I try very hard to resolve draw spells or extra combats ASAP after an attack, it speeds up the deck tremendously. It also combos with extra combats to cause insane damage while refunding mana and is another route to infinite combats with Aggravated Assault.
I drew Frontier Siege in one game. I was practically able to use all 4 green in both main phases almost every turn. The acceleration allowed me to have both other players dead by turn 7. Oh, I also just noticed that as a side bonus, Frontier Siege adds even more mana if you get an additional main phase off of an extra combat step.
I temporarily cut Scavenging Ooze (I hate cutting yard hate, but we can race slow GY decks and we lose to the fast ones regardless of its inclusion) and Holistic Wisdom (too slow, don't always have what I need in my yard). Considering how much I like what I'm testing, these changes have a good chance of being permanent.
Realm Seekers has not even shown up yet.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
This...this is good.
Just so I don't waste a post, I'm now looking to add Relentless Assault to the deck but another card came to mind as an additional combat phase enabler, what are your thoughts on Fury of the Horde? It has the potential to become an extra combat phase after a big draw.
I'm seriously short on testing space right now and I probably want to throw Scooze back in before I throw in any more damage amp. I got Blazing Shoal and Temur Battle Rage on my mind in case I ever try them. Inquisitor's Flail might be tried and cards like Mage Slayer are too slow for this deck. Thinking about it, I should probably be careful of how many 1-shot effects I run. At least most of my extra combat cards can potentially offer multiple extra combats/
On a side note, I want to make some comments about piloting the deck. It is incredibly straightforward for the most part. However, it is when you are trying to really pull yourself from behind that a pilot's play skill factors into how much this deck can do. As an example I drew really poorly in one game, so much so that I actually got ignored.. except for an Elvish Piper and Greater Good that both got countered because well... they're really good. Too good. Scroll Rack information told me what was on top, but what I needed was in my gy and the only way to get it is to Beast Within my own Greenwarden of Murasa. While the other players fought themselves, I ran in with a trampling Malignus, ate people, almost stole the game. I had to resist the temptation to shoot an opponent's game-winning piece with it because I knew if I did it my chances of winning go to zero. Thankfully, someone else shot it.
Flooding out hurts, but it sure beats not drawing enough lands almost every time.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
You can make EVERYTHING a Hydra Omnivore? It's slow as hell but the damage potential is just so insane. The politics is super bad but this deck hasn't exactly been making stunning diplomacy achievements lately. Really needs cheat-out help to be absolute nuts. It's 4 to equip but repeatable damage amplification is stupid. We'll see if the rewards are worth the huge upfront costs. However, the real question is "do the copies also have double the power/toughness?" If not, then it probably won't be worth it.
Okay, they have base p/t due to layering rules. Now I'm far less sold on it. Still might try it.
Important detail: Xenagos grants his buff BEFORE you declare attacks.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Let's break it down.
Baseline: Terra Stomper. 8/8 uncounterable trample. Always hits for 16, but few other redeeming properties.
This essentially hits like a 6/6 trample for six because it gets the xenagos buff for 3, then gets its own attack trigger for 6. Not that impressive. Nonetheless not a worthless fail case.
However, we should look at a few more scenarios.
A) We play this first, and then follow up with another creature.
Normally when we play this deck we should always stick to one single threat to avoid overextending and because our damage output usually isn't too much better with two threats. However, with this card, if we lead off with it, then play a 7 power creature, we give the 7 power creature the xenagod buff, and then swing with both our guys to get a +14PT trigger. This means we hit for 17 + 28 damage trample. That is a significant difference in firepower! If we are lucky enough to have this card survive a pass around the table, it is repeatable! With attackers like Atarka, World Render, this thing enables us to one-shot opponents with no additional mana investment! Hydra Omnivore practically kills everyone as a 32/32 trample! NOT TO MENTION we still get to spread our damage around because the ibex hits like a truck!
Lastly, imagine what this card does to our board when we send in a Malignus or Scourge of the Throne.
This card is comparable to Thunderfoot Baloth, but WAY better at the support role because of how the Xenagos buff triggers before the ibex attack trigger.
B) We play another creature first, then follow up with this.
This is the less ideal situation, because with the same 7 power creature we are forced to give this paltry 3/3 the haste buff. This means we attack for (7+6) + 12 damage = 25 damage. Not a crazy amount by this deck's standards
C) We have this out, and we attack with it, then give ourselves an extra combat.
So we buff for 3 to go to 6 power, then it buffs team to go to 12 power. Hit for 12. We go to combat #2. We buff it for 12 going to 24 power. We have it buff team to go to 48 power. Swing for a total of 60.
All scenarios exclude the presence of utilities like mana dorks that make this card much more attractive if present on board.
Conclusion: Worth testing! Bonus points for killing our opponents mercilessly with a humongous goat!
To opponents playing against this deck: Killing this before damage from its first attack is not your highest priority, but heaven help you if you let the Xenagos player untap with this.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Well, I guess I can cut a 2-drop ramp spell for this. I'll take maximum hand size cards for little opportunity cost where I can! It's a 2 drop mana rock and the benefit is too useful here to ignore.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Okay, so I've really been liking both enchantments. I'm probably keeping both. Sorry Scooze. I want you back someday but I need to figure out where?
I'm also going to try out Pathbreaker Ibex in the place of Realm Seekers.
I'll get a Scroll Rack eventually. I'm going to cut Wheel of Fortune because it actually got stolen and also cause wheel effects, while acting as hand disruption, are actually quite poor when everyone is more or less trying to play fairly. When playing unfairly, they are significantly better, but this deck wasn't made to handle the fair decks.
Hopefully running Scroll Rack will allow me to find my existing draw a little more consistently.
I also traded for a Sneak Attack. It took quite a bit out of me but I managed to do it!
I'm cutting Insurrection because it's a card that abuses someone's developed board-state. However, against the decks I really worry about, either they're faster than me and this card probably won't be castable or I won't actually need to use it to kill everyone.
It has won games, but if I'm given a choice between this and Sneak Attack, you can surely bet that I'm playing the latter.
I'm cutting Explore for Thought Vessel. Changes should be final by next week.
- Wheel of Fortune Not happy with this
- Insurrection
- Scavenging Ooze Not happy with this
- Explore
- Moldgraf Monstrosity
- Holistic Wisdom
- Mountain
+ Scroll Rack - I'll get one soon. It's fairly good here.
+ Sneak Attack - Super stoked about this.
+ Frontier Siege
+ Pathbreaker Ibex - May not be permanent
+ Thought Vessel
+ Nature's Will
+ Spinerock Knoll - Yay it is in a precon
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
CubeTutor
Forum
I generally find that Final Fortune is one of those cards that is better in very small 3 player games than in 4 player games. There are plenty of moments where the card can be dead and it is much riskier than other kinds of cards.
I didn't get too much testing in. I kept getting incredibly unlucky hands except one game where I won off of sticking Sneak Attack, sneaking in a hexproof guy, and having a bunch of extra combats.
I mostly played Mizzix against a group that is playing "not remotely broken" stuff. Now that deck is quite fun.
Final note: Caller of the Pack is being tested. (omnivore temporarily out)
Flameshadow Conjuring will be removed for something (parlaying an effect when no cheat is available, especially if I need to lead with a 7-drop, is really bad)
I'm trying to figure out if I want more draw or damage. If not, I'm throwing Scavenging Ooze back in.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
The deck seems to work decently well now when I draw the beef and sometimes the draw that I need to see. I've been winning a fair share of games now.
There's just two cards on the chopping block. Flameshadow Conjuring, which I have opted to already remove, and surprisingly, Hydra Omnivore.
Why the omnivore? It has the potential to wipe out whole tables. However, it is so situationally dependent on either having trample or someone with an empty board. At least Malignus makes people play around it when I'm not there as well as having other actually desirable qualities. For example, I used its "damage can't be prevented" to punch through a Solitary Confinement yesterday. I'll be temporarily swapping it out with Caller of the Pack and seeing how it does.
I'm re-testing Elemental Bond and Evolutionary Leap now that my deck has sufficiently changed enough for these to be worth another look. Other than that, if they don't make it, I'll throw Scavenging Ooze back in.
Speaking of enchantments, this deck is getting somewhat more heavy on the enchantments. And honestly, it seems to work better this way. All of the four mana enchantments are ones you really don't want to see if you are on the other side of the table. The dual method of running cards that both blank removal and offer cheap recursion through removal both work well for me, and even though I would never play some of these cards in a fast combo metagame, I prefer these cards because they are the most mana-efficient options I have and this deck guzzles mana like crazy. Speaking of which, I am also satisfied completely with the land count and ramp density of the deck. The only thing I would like to add more of are solid draw effects.
Lastly, Haven of the Spirit Dragon is going away. Never cracked it for weeks. I still run enough basics for Cinder Glade to be good, so I will run that.
- Haven of the Spirit Dragon
+ Cinder Glade
NEW RECORDS:
Biggest Pathbreaker Ibex pump: +30/+30 on 10 Eldrazi Spawn tokens.
Almost beat the record for damage dealt to an opponent in a single turn at ~255 with the 10 eldrazi spawns.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Oh, Elemental Bond failed the test. Averaging 2 cards before becoming irrelevant is not good enough. I'm thinking Evolutionary Leap might end up faring better, especially now that I am less likely to whiff on this thing. Hitting small things isn't terrible, but I don't like wasting time and attack steps if possible. Failing that, Scooze goes back in.
Frontier Siege has the immense honor of overperforming in practically all stages of the game. Early on, it is AT LEAST a ramp for 2 and late game it can potentially add more than 4 mana in a turn if I have extra combats. Recently I was able to have it generate 8 mana in a turn and I used all of it.
Greenwarden of Murasa is surprisingly good here. I have yet to be disappointed by it. It doesn't hit well, but it is quite useful against decks that repeatedly try to remove your things.
Scroll Rack needs to be drawn early to be really good. If you fail to hit draw and you get stranded in topdeck mode then it sucks obviously. It is also insanely good if you end up with a huge hand size.
Lastly I'm seriously considering Donald's suggestion of running Treetop Village. It enters tapped which sucks but even 3/3s are super relevant in this deck just as draw conduits.
Also good luck with building the deck! I'm done with finals so I should be free to keep messing with the deck.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.