One of the only ways this deck gets over the top, other than the few creatures I run that can deliver the beatdowns, is by swording up utility creatures to get in for damage. Since this isn't a list for Craterhoof, it seems only fitting that a toolbox deck such as this would run Mirror Entity, which serves as both an Overwhelming Stampede or Phyrexian Altar depending on the board state.
Btw, Sigarda has been a pocket pick of mine forever (a relic of a time where my whole playgroup was literally running Grixis). ISB used to run Akroma, but she was my more mana friendly version. Found a good deal on a box topper for her, and jumped at it. Very excited to have a modern, extended border for one of my favorite legends.
Yeah as soon as Vannifar was spoiled I thought it’s going straight into my Derevi list. Synergizes with Derevi’s untap ability, gets resurrected by Reveilark, is Pod redundancy, and can get searched up easily.
Such a good option to run and really looks like a promising card.
For reals, the new Birthing Pod gives an awesome layer of redundancy for this deck. I'm 100% switching my Arcades deck to Derevi. I've been thinking about it for a while now but this card just pushes Derevi over the top.
Vannifar is too good to pass on. I'll need to find a spot for her. Spots in this decklist have been tight for about 3 or 4 years now, so I really don't know what is getting cut for her.
I'm unsure about Prime Speaker Vannifar for Jenara. I can see how the untap synergy lends itself perfectly to the Derevi deck and I think it 100% belongs there, but I don't think it's necessarily an auto-include in Jenara. Although redundancy is a great thing in our format, I'm not convinced the disadvantages of Vannifar outweigh the advantages.
In my mind it's similar to comparing Fauna Shaman to Survival of the Fittest. The perks Vannifar and Fauna Shaman have over their counterparts are that creatures are easier to tutor than artifacts/enchantments and they're also easier to recur. The disadvantages are that creature removal is more prominent than artifact/enchantment removal so they are more likely to be dealt with, and because they must tap to activate they're abilities, without haste, they are more likely to not get the chance. Even after being recurred from the graveyard, they must wait until the next turn to use their abilities, giving the table time to deal with them.
Basically Vannifar, like Fauna Shaman, doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play, which is where most of the value in our deck comes from. Despite my arguments against the card, I really want it to be good; I love the games where I have Birthing Pod, and I would love the redundancy/easier access to the effect. I'm just worried playing Vannifar might end up being a trap.
Is anyone out there running Craterhoof Behemoth? I've never seriously considered the card in Jenara because, more often than not, I only ever have 2-4 creatures on the battlefield and Craterhoof wouldn't win me the game on the spot like it tends to in other decks. I also don't paly the Tooth and Nail package with Avenger of Zendikar. The reason I ask is because End-Raze Forerunners has piqued my interest. It provides a potentially game-winning EtB ability that isn't as potent as Craterhoof Behemoth but is far safer; you can alpha strike and still have blockers thanks to vigilance, you're also not blown out by fog effects. End-Raze Forerunners also has decent stats on it's own, unlike Craterhoof Behemoth. Because of that, Craterhoof tends to stay in your hand unless you're about to win with it, making it effectively a dead card in many situations, not necessarily so with End-Raze Forerunners.
For a pure Jenara build, Vannifar isn't as high impact as it needs to be, I agree. But I still think it's a great way to get value from some of your spent ETB creatures in Jenara that would otherwise sit around and clog up the field without doing anything meaningful.
In regards to Craterhoof Behemoth, I think it's just a little too top heavy for a Bant Mid-Range strategy. My observation is that you want to build a board state that is tempo oriented and allows you to control the board via creatures. While 'Hoof does close the door against your opponents, I wonder if the 'Hoofer will ever be relevant because by the time you have a Board state that can kill the table via the 'Hoofer's trigger you've probably already established control over the board and the game anyways.
I kinda like the new Boars of death. Besides being totally cool in the art and concept, the fact that they're a 7/7 Vigilance creature that maintains board control via the granted Vigilance is really solid. I think I would prefer it to 'Hoofer in this particular build.
While I don't think I will try it in Jenara, I am thinking about using Vizier of Remedies and Devoted Druid along with Walking Ballista. Has anyone ever tried it in Commander? It works in Modern, you know?
I'm asking here because there's some activity here and it's perfectly viable in Bant. Would it be completely absurd to use Tooth and Nail to get those two punks and another tutor to get the Ballista?
There are of course many ways to assemble the combo. I was just wondering if anyone had tried it in Commander.
I think the combo is fine. Essentially it's an infinite mana combo that's used to fuel Walking Ballista for infinite +1/+1 counters/pings. The thing is, there are so many ways to generate infinite mana and just as many ways to abuse it. And although you could shoehorn that combo into a Jenara list, it would probably be better suited to a deck whose commander can take advantage of the mana; having a combo piece in the command zone rather than having to tutor another card. The commander that immediately comes to mind is Thrasios, Triton Hero paired with any of the W/x partners. Heck, you could even throw Ballista in and use the infinite mana and Thrasios to draw through your deck until you find it!
In regard to Tooth and Nail: if you're looking to combo out and resolving Tooth and Nail doesn't win you the game on the spot, is it really worth it? Just my 2 cents on the card. I personally don't run it in any of my decks for the "anti-fun" it tends to generate.
Yeah, I stopped running Tooth and Nail in here a long time ago, too. It almost always just fetches the same creatures, at a heavy mana cost. Not only did it get worse as more people in my group started to run more cheap counter spells (and anti search effects and such... one guy in my group adores Shadow of Doubt), but also I kinda just got bored of it.
As for the combo, I definitely wouldn't put that here. None of those are cards I want outside of the combo, which is a big no-no in my eyes unless I'm running a dedicated combo deck.
I think the combo is fine. Essentially it's an infinite mana combo that's used to fuel Walking Ballista for infinite +1/+1 counters/pings. The thing is, there are so many ways to generate infinite mana and just as many ways to abuse it. And although you could shoehorn that combo into a Jenara list, it would probably be better suited to a deck whose commander can take advantage of the mana; having a combo piece in the command zone rather than having to tutor another card. The commander that immediately comes to mind is Thrasios, Triton Hero paired with any of the W/x partners. Heck, you could even throw Ballista in and use the infinite mana and Thrasios to draw through your deck until you find it!
In regard to Tooth and Nail: if you're looking to combo out and resolving Tooth and Nail doesn't win you the game on the spot, is it really worth it? Just my 2 cents on the card. I personally don't run it in any of my decks for the "anti-fun" it tends to generate.
All good points. The Commander thing is certainly sensible but it would require building another Commander deck and that is pretty much out of the question for me. The Modern decks use Duskwatch Recruiter to find the Walking Ballista; that seems a little more efficient. There are many ways, I'm sure of assembling the pieces.
I don't play Tooth and Nail in Jenara nor do I actually plan to try the Vizier/Druid combo in Jenara, I have it in mind for a Sigarda, Host of Herons deck. I just don't subscribe to any other Commander threads so I thought I wpuld ask about it here.
Pretty much 100% agree with ZenN's last statement there; if the cards are more-or-less dead outside of the combo then it's hard to justify their inclusion in a midrange/goodstuff deck. I don't really follow Modern, but that deck sounds really sweet!
Vizier of Remedies can enable a number of combos in addition to infinite green mana with Devoted Druid. She can enable infinite life combos with Kitchen Finks and a sacrifice outlet; infinite damage if that sacrifice outlet is Blasting Station - any Persist creature will do that; infinite damage with a sacrifice outlet and Murderous Redcap (obvious color issue here); infinite scying with any Persist creature and Viscera Seer. She basically does many of the same tricks Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit can do.
In short, there are numerous combos she can enable. Notwithstanding, I agree that she doesn't belong in Bant Good-Stuff, although I do from time to time run combos with specific cards just to vary the win-condition and have a laugh.
Those combos feel a lot more at home in a Abzan-esque list than in this deck. None of those cards really warrant inclusion in this decklist on their own, and the Survival Lark combo fits far more perfectly in this deck with what it wants to do in the 99, without making those cards dead on their own.
I do run some similar loops in my Atraxa list, but again, that is a deck that is far more able to play around with counters. It just doesn't fit here.
Hello, I´ve registred just for this awesome thread. I currently posses only two commanders Derevi and Jenara. While Derevi was my first EDH and was supposed to be bird tribal "fun they said" deck, due to not so friendly meta it fastly becomes mutant of good stuff and birds. Radical return to the original but slimmer bird theme (now in foil because I print my money apparently:) happened and Jenara was born from leftovers, originaly ment to finally be higher land counts and all the wonderful ramp green and white monstrosities deck..., alas I am now here, because value is value
I have few questions mostly for the cards, which it seems doesn´t make a cut for most of the decklists here, but it lend give serious help in my opinion. Mother of runes seems like decent protection for Jenara or another top end beaters, dorks with swords or copied beaters, also saves my defense counters and could be early as well as late on land blocker. Restoration angel such flicker staple on good evasion body seems like good deal, also angel type could be somewhat important with lands like cavern of souls or path of ancestry Nissa, Vastwood seer while I love to have many spells I do hate to play them and therefore skimp too much often on land count and land tutots I relented in the recent and did include FEW tutors. Still just tutoring to the hand is good enough for me, when I swap ramp aspect for the plainswalker aspect. So is Nissa good enough to stand on the place of wood elves or steve? renegate rallier that is card I would play, if I posses enough in colour fetches, but alas I have mostly red incl. ones from my modern card pool, however for you blasphemers who doesn´t adhere to the purity of your lands architecture, this card could be another etb recursion value. spellseeker do pretty much the same as mystical tutor, but it is on the creature with etb.
One card did catch my eye from the mists of near future hydroid krasis similar to the sphinx´s revelation till CMC 6 it is not such bomb, but 6cmc and higher could give you good cards and good evasion trampling body, which more than makes for negliegeble lifegain, it could restart late game no hand no board situation for you. Sadly no ETB and bad recursion potential.
Path to exile / Duplicant / Relfector mage which one or none of it?
Is it cryptic command too high costed for midrange Jenara, it seems like much more, than just counter, sudowrath (one turn brake), sudoremoval and draw just for efect.
In the end I add two cards, which I find maybe just meta dependant, but very good for me : Linvala, keeper of silence for the amount +1/+1 counters put and removed on and from the creatures in the last sets make it sometimes very hard to obeserve battlefield situations as well as stops alot no coming back situation. Return to dust / Song of the dryads while we still adhere to the tucking of general into the deck in my playgroup, everybody and their mother have at least one god which is most of the time indestructible enchantment (not creature) and returning them to dust seems like unpassable from place I stand right now.
PS: I know why it doesn´t make a cut, but Panharmoniccon is such sweet card for etb creatures deck, that everytime I sleeved it out I have to shed one big tear and give it back. Please help me to get rid of it by posting some good cons arguments.
I've had Mom in another deck and she doesn't seem to perform the way one would expect. That's just my feeling, I've never had the impulse to try her in Jenara and I expect she could get cut from the other deck.
Resto is another card that really doesn't seem up to Commander level. I mean, there are plenty of cards that can flicker repeatedly. Resto may catch someone off guard, but I still think she' quite good enough in Commander.
I'm not ready to trade Wood Elves for Nissa, but she might be better than some of the others. Putting in play is SO much better than putting it in hand.
Renegade Railler seems like a weak E-Wit. Perhaps that's not quite fair because putting into play is still better than putting into hand. There are combos with Railer, especially with Saffi, but I wouldn't include those cards unless I thought they were good enough on their own. I'm not saying they aren't, I just haven't evaluated them for Jenara. By the way, There are better combos with E-Wit.
On the subject of fetches, I run nine.
Hydroid Krasis would be perhaps usable with some means of generating large amounts of both G and U. My deck doesn't currently have that, but it isn't too tough to do, I imagine. Palinchron would probably get it done.
Path is an auto-include in my view. Duplicant is popular but I don't run him in Jenara; I do have him in another deck. It's just a matter of how many high-casting cost things can a deck support and which ones does a fellow use.
I run Cryptic mainly because of the ability to tap down every bad guy. It's a good thing to do as it makes winning quicker with the infinite-turn combo.
Panharmonicon seems rather like a gimmick. I would have to look at my EtB effects and decide if it was worth having. That would mean worth replacing something else and worth perhaps spending a whole turn on it and nothing else.
Is the CZ for Czech Republic? I spent a couple of days in Prague - fabulous place.
There's a lot to tackle in that post. I'll just pick up on a few points that I feel strongly about.
Spellseeker: I love this card, and completely promote running it in most Blue decks. I'd probably still run it even if Cyclonic Rift was banned - there are just so many great targets.
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: I wouldn't run Nissa over Wood Elves or Sakura-Tribe Elder. Those two are the best of the best for ramp stapled to a creature. Many (including myself) go as far as to run cards like Farhaven Elf or Yavimaya Dryadin addidtion to the Elves and Elder. Think of these cheap ramp creatures as this decks versions of Kodama's Reach/Cultivate; since we abuse creature interactions (ETB/flicker, recursion, etc.) much more than spells.
Restoration Angel: It's true that flickering creatures provides amazing value in this deck. However, Restoration Angel provides only a single use and, at 4 mana, that effect is just a little too pricy. There are also a few interactions that it can't enable because it can't flicker angels - it can never save Jenara, Asura of War, nor can it flicker Karmic Guide, Angel of Serenity, or Resolute Archangel, all prominent cards in this deck. The evasive body is indeed nice, but I've found that often times it's irrelevant since we have a nice evasive body right in the command zone.
Hydroid Krasis: I tend to think of this guy as a less abusable Prime Speaker Zegana rather than a Sphinx's Revelation on a creature. I don't think I'd run it over either of those two cards, but maybe in addition to them if I had room.
Alright, the last point I'm going to tackle is potentially the most controversial: Cryptic Command. I'm of the school of thought that Cryptic is indeed too inconvenient to cast/hold up mana for in this deck. I believe ZenN did run it in his version of Jenara however, so maybe he can speak more to that.
Gilded Drake is simply incredible with a reusable flicker source. I won a multiplayer game by taking so many creatures - including Commanders - from the others players that they just scooped.
I’ve been running Cryptic Command since I fortuitously came across one and I’ve only been impressed.
Admittedly - its usefulness seems to scale as the game goes longer. I’ve used it to bounce a Coat of Arms before damage in tribal decks, tap opponent’s creatures when I’m at risk of being swung for lethal, and I like it with Witness since you can effectively just keep bouncing Witness to keep picking CC up with.
I wouldn’t say it’s seemed like an essential card by any measure, but it’s been really outstanding in several corner cases I’ve found myself in.
I've run Cryptic Command on and off for a long time. It's a great card. Some lists, however, can have a hard time holding up 4 mana, and/or a hard time with the triple blue. It's not in versions of the list I've most recently been playing, but that doesn't mean it won't make it back in.
Spellseeker is a solid card. She can find a lot of great things and she's Skullclampable. She hasn't been in my list yet, but she very well may be at some point. I think if I was going to run her, I'd want more diverse options to get with her. Right now she could find me creature removal, counter spell, creature tutor, or artifact/enchantment tutor, or a "wrath" in the form of Cyclonic Rift. I think I'd want to be running a 2CMC mass draw spell (like Pull from Tomorrow), and some form of utility target (like maybe Mission Briefing or Dramatic Reversal). I kinda feel like she's competing for a slot with Recruiter of the Guard. But I dunno.
I ran Duplicant for a long time, but with the trimming down of my average CMC, he was one of the first to go, sadly. I haven't really missed him too much. Gilded Drake is a delight.
I really like Restoration Angel as a card. I have had it in and out of here a few times. Sadly, I think I'm leaning toward out again. That might very well be my cut for Prime Speaker Vannifar. Either that, or I'll cut her for maybe Angel of Finality and find a different cut for Vannifar. The problem with Resto is she just doesn't do enough in this format, I think.
Hydroid Krasis is a really cool card, but not one I think I'd play in this deck. I'd adore it in something like a Kruphix, God of Horizons deck, though.
I've never much cared for Mother of Runes in the majority of decks. I find her very overrated. She's fine if you're trying to protect a combo or a more important general (like Kaalia of the Vast, for example).
I could never justify running Nissa, Vastwood Seer over Wood Elves in a deck like this. I used to also run Yavimaya Dryad in addition, and only recently cut her out (for Bloom Tender, because in a Derevi helmed version of the list it's a much more impactful card).
Man, all this talk about Cryptic Command actually has me wanting to test it out. I think the only card I'd want to cut for it is Bribery, which I know not everyone here runs anyway. I guess Bribery is sorta hit or miss and it definitely makes you a huge target. Bribery doesn't really advance my game plan either - if it resolves and no one has an answer to what you search up, you usually just win. It's similar to Tooth and Nail in that way. Holding up mana for Cryptic Command doesn't seem so bad when I compare it to tapping 5 mana on my main phase for Bribery.
@DeadPresident2910, are you solely running the Derevi, Empyrial Tactician list you posted a while back, or do you have a Jenara list in addition to that?
Btw, Sigarda has been a pocket pick of mine forever (a relic of a time where my whole playgroup was literally running Grixis). ISB used to run Akroma, but she was my more mana friendly version. Found a good deal on a box topper for her, and jumped at it. Very excited to have a modern, extended border for one of my favorite legends.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Hello, new friend.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Such a good option to run and really looks like a promising card.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
In my mind it's similar to comparing Fauna Shaman to Survival of the Fittest. The perks Vannifar and Fauna Shaman have over their counterparts are that creatures are easier to tutor than artifacts/enchantments and they're also easier to recur. The disadvantages are that creature removal is more prominent than artifact/enchantment removal so they are more likely to be dealt with, and because they must tap to activate they're abilities, without haste, they are more likely to not get the chance. Even after being recurred from the graveyard, they must wait until the next turn to use their abilities, giving the table time to deal with them.
Basically Vannifar, like Fauna Shaman, doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play, which is where most of the value in our deck comes from. Despite my arguments against the card, I really want it to be good; I love the games where I have Birthing Pod, and I would love the redundancy/easier access to the effect. I'm just worried playing Vannifar might end up being a trap.
Thoughts?
In regards to Craterhoof Behemoth, I think it's just a little too top heavy for a Bant Mid-Range strategy. My observation is that you want to build a board state that is tempo oriented and allows you to control the board via creatures. While 'Hoof does close the door against your opponents, I wonder if the 'Hoofer will ever be relevant because by the time you have a Board state that can kill the table via the 'Hoofer's trigger you've probably already established control over the board and the game anyways.
I kinda like the new Boars of death. Besides being totally cool in the art and concept, the fact that they're a 7/7 Vigilance creature that maintains board control via the granted Vigilance is really solid. I think I would prefer it to 'Hoofer in this particular build.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'm asking here because there's some activity here and it's perfectly viable in Bant. Would it be completely absurd to use Tooth and Nail to get those two punks and another tutor to get the Ballista?
There are of course many ways to assemble the combo. I was just wondering if anyone had tried it in Commander.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
In regard to Tooth and Nail: if you're looking to combo out and resolving Tooth and Nail doesn't win you the game on the spot, is it really worth it? Just my 2 cents on the card. I personally don't run it in any of my decks for the "anti-fun" it tends to generate.
As for the combo, I definitely wouldn't put that here. None of those are cards I want outside of the combo, which is a big no-no in my eyes unless I'm running a dedicated combo deck.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
All good points. The Commander thing is certainly sensible but it would require building another Commander deck and that is pretty much out of the question for me. The Modern decks use Duskwatch Recruiter to find the Walking Ballista; that seems a little more efficient. There are many ways, I'm sure of assembling the pieces.
I don't play Tooth and Nail in Jenara nor do I actually plan to try the Vizier/Druid combo in Jenara, I have it in mind for a Sigarda, Host of Herons deck. I just don't subscribe to any other Commander threads so I thought I wpuld ask about it here.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
In short, there are numerous combos she can enable. Notwithstanding, I agree that she doesn't belong in Bant Good-Stuff, although I do from time to time run combos with specific cards just to vary the win-condition and have a laugh.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I do run some similar loops in my Atraxa list, but again, that is a deck that is far more able to play around with counters. It just doesn't fit here.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I have few questions mostly for the cards, which it seems doesn´t make a cut for most of the decklists here, but it lend give serious help in my opinion.
Mother of runes seems like decent protection for Jenara or another top end beaters, dorks with swords or copied beaters, also saves my defense counters and could be early as well as late on land blocker.
Restoration angel such flicker staple on good evasion body seems like good deal, also angel type could be somewhat important with lands like cavern of souls or path of ancestry
Nissa, Vastwood seer while I love to have many spells I do hate to play them and therefore skimp too much often on land count and land tutots I relented in the recent and did include FEW tutors. Still just tutoring to the hand is good enough for me, when I swap ramp aspect for the plainswalker aspect. So is Nissa good enough to stand on the place of wood elves or steve?
renegate rallier that is card I would play, if I posses enough in colour fetches, but alas I have mostly red incl. ones from my modern card pool, however for you blasphemers who doesn´t adhere to the purity of your lands architecture, this card could be another etb recursion value.
spellseeker do pretty much the same as mystical tutor, but it is on the creature with etb.
One card did catch my eye from the mists of near future hydroid krasis similar to the sphinx´s revelation till CMC 6 it is not such bomb, but 6cmc and higher could give you good cards and good evasion trampling body, which more than makes for negliegeble lifegain, it could restart late game no hand no board situation for you. Sadly no ETB and bad recursion potential.
Path to exile / Duplicant / Relfector mage which one or none of it?
Is it cryptic command too high costed for midrange Jenara, it seems like much more, than just counter, sudowrath (one turn brake), sudoremoval and draw just for efect.
In the end I add two cards, which I find maybe just meta dependant, but very good for me :
Linvala, keeper of silence for the amount +1/+1 counters put and removed on and from the creatures in the last sets make it sometimes very hard to obeserve battlefield situations as well as stops alot no coming back situation.
Return to dust / Song of the dryads while we still adhere to the tucking of general into the deck in my playgroup, everybody and their mother have at least one god which is most of the time indestructible enchantment (not creature) and returning them to dust seems like unpassable from place I stand right now.
PS: I know why it doesn´t make a cut, but Panharmoniccon is such sweet card for etb creatures deck, that everytime I sleeved it out I have to shed one big tear and give it back. Please help me to get rid of it by posting some good cons arguments.
I've had Mom in another deck and she doesn't seem to perform the way one would expect. That's just my feeling, I've never had the impulse to try her in Jenara and I expect she could get cut from the other deck.
Resto is another card that really doesn't seem up to Commander level. I mean, there are plenty of cards that can flicker repeatedly. Resto may catch someone off guard, but I still think she' quite good enough in Commander.
I'm not ready to trade Wood Elves for Nissa, but she might be better than some of the others. Putting in play is SO much better than putting it in hand.
Renegade Railler seems like a weak E-Wit. Perhaps that's not quite fair because putting into play is still better than putting into hand. There are combos with Railer, especially with Saffi, but I wouldn't include those cards unless I thought they were good enough on their own. I'm not saying they aren't, I just haven't evaluated them for Jenara. By the way, There are better combos with E-Wit.
On the subject of fetches, I run nine.
Hydroid Krasis would be perhaps usable with some means of generating large amounts of both G and U. My deck doesn't currently have that, but it isn't too tough to do, I imagine. Palinchron would probably get it done.
Path is an auto-include in my view. Duplicant is popular but I don't run him in Jenara; I do have him in another deck. It's just a matter of how many high-casting cost things can a deck support and which ones does a fellow use.
I run Cryptic mainly because of the ability to tap down every bad guy. It's a good thing to do as it makes winning quicker with the infinite-turn combo.
Linvala is solid. Return to Dust is solid. I've not seen Song of the Dryads before, but it's a fun-looking card.
Panharmonicon seems rather like a gimmick. I would have to look at my EtB effects and decide if it was worth having. That would mean worth replacing something else and worth perhaps spending a whole turn on it and nothing else.
Is the CZ for Czech Republic? I spent a couple of days in Prague - fabulous place.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Spellseeker: I love this card, and completely promote running it in most Blue decks. I'd probably still run it even if Cyclonic Rift was banned - there are just so many great targets.
Path to Exile/Duplicant/Reflector Mage: If I had to pick only one of these three, I'd pick Path. Currently my single target removal package consists of Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Beast Within, Bant Charm, and Palace Jailer. I ran Duplicant for the longest time, but recently have been trying Palace Jailer in it's place. A few other cards I run that could be classified as removal are Gilded Drake, Knight of Autumn, Acidic Slime, and Venser, Shaper Savant in addition to a few counter spells.
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: I wouldn't run Nissa over Wood Elves or Sakura-Tribe Elder. Those two are the best of the best for ramp stapled to a creature. Many (including myself) go as far as to run cards like Farhaven Elf or Yavimaya Dryad in addidtion to the Elves and Elder. Think of these cheap ramp creatures as this decks versions of Kodama's Reach/Cultivate; since we abuse creature interactions (ETB/flicker, recursion, etc.) much more than spells.
Restoration Angel: It's true that flickering creatures provides amazing value in this deck. However, Restoration Angel provides only a single use and, at 4 mana, that effect is just a little too pricy. There are also a few interactions that it can't enable because it can't flicker angels - it can never save Jenara, Asura of War, nor can it flicker Karmic Guide, Angel of Serenity, or Resolute Archangel, all prominent cards in this deck. The evasive body is indeed nice, but I've found that often times it's irrelevant since we have a nice evasive body right in the command zone.
Hydroid Krasis: I tend to think of this guy as a less abusable Prime Speaker Zegana rather than a Sphinx's Revelation on a creature. I don't think I'd run it over either of those two cards, but maybe in addition to them if I had room.
Alright, the last point I'm going to tackle is potentially the most controversial: Cryptic Command. I'm of the school of thought that Cryptic is indeed too inconvenient to cast/hold up mana for in this deck. I believe ZenN did run it in his version of Jenara however, so maybe he can speak more to that.
Gilded Drake is simply incredible with a reusable flicker source. I won a multiplayer game by taking so many creatures - including Commanders - from the others players that they just scooped.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Admittedly - its usefulness seems to scale as the game goes longer. I’ve used it to bounce a Coat of Arms before damage in tribal decks, tap opponent’s creatures when I’m at risk of being swung for lethal, and I like it with Witness since you can effectively just keep bouncing Witness to keep picking CC up with.
I wouldn’t say it’s seemed like an essential card by any measure, but it’s been really outstanding in several corner cases I’ve found myself in.
Spellseeker is a solid card. She can find a lot of great things and she's Skullclampable. She hasn't been in my list yet, but she very well may be at some point. I think if I was going to run her, I'd want more diverse options to get with her. Right now she could find me creature removal, counter spell, creature tutor, or artifact/enchantment tutor, or a "wrath" in the form of Cyclonic Rift. I think I'd want to be running a 2CMC mass draw spell (like Pull from Tomorrow), and some form of utility target (like maybe Mission Briefing or Dramatic Reversal). I kinda feel like she's competing for a slot with Recruiter of the Guard. But I dunno.
I ran Duplicant for a long time, but with the trimming down of my average CMC, he was one of the first to go, sadly. I haven't really missed him too much. Gilded Drake is a delight.
I really like Restoration Angel as a card. I have had it in and out of here a few times. Sadly, I think I'm leaning toward out again. That might very well be my cut for Prime Speaker Vannifar. Either that, or I'll cut her for maybe Angel of Finality and find a different cut for Vannifar. The problem with Resto is she just doesn't do enough in this format, I think.
Hydroid Krasis is a really cool card, but not one I think I'd play in this deck. I'd adore it in something like a Kruphix, God of Horizons deck, though.
I've never much cared for Mother of Runes in the majority of decks. I find her very overrated. She's fine if you're trying to protect a combo or a more important general (like Kaalia of the Vast, for example).
I could never justify running Nissa, Vastwood Seer over Wood Elves in a deck like this. I used to also run Yavimaya Dryad in addition, and only recently cut her out (for Bloom Tender, because in a Derevi helmed version of the list it's a much more impactful card).
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Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
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Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Man, all this talk about Cryptic Command actually has me wanting to test it out. I think the only card I'd want to cut for it is Bribery, which I know not everyone here runs anyway. I guess Bribery is sorta hit or miss and it definitely makes you a huge target. Bribery doesn't really advance my game plan either - if it resolves and no one has an answer to what you search up, you usually just win. It's similar to Tooth and Nail in that way. Holding up mana for Cryptic Command doesn't seem so bad when I compare it to tapping 5 mana on my main phase for Bribery.