Cataclysmic Gearhulk anyone been playing this card? I haven't been around the boards much lately, but this came up a couple times recently for me where if I'd had this bad boy in the deck, I could have avoided a sticky situation, especially with how easy it is to tutor for creatures or cheat them into play with this deck.
Has anyone been running it?
To answer your question, no, I haven't.
But. . . He really seems good to me only if I can name the Gearhulk as the artifact and keep Jenara, Asura of War as the creature. I might be able to re-top Sensei's Divining Top but I'm fond of my other artifacts too. Still, it might be worth a try and there's always Academy Ruins. I'm not interested to the point that I will buy that Gearhulk for a Commander deck test, but if I come across one in the packs I'm forced to buy for FNM entry or the prize packs I get from time to time, I could see giving it a try.
You can choose him as the artifact. Easily recurrable and tutorable wrath on demand with a good body seems great. And you don't have to keep him if you want to get Jenara and a sword or something. Does a good job of clearing the mucked up battlefield, but a poor job of stopping specific threats as opponents get to choose to keep them.
Tragic Arrogance, however, is amazing if you opponents have more than one of anything because YOU get to choose.
That said, his limitations are more than made up for by his convenience I think. I'm probably cutting Supreme Verdict for him.
I've been testing several changes since the Kaladesh prerelease, and I'm finally finalizing them. You can find full details about the changes in the primer itself, but as a quick reference they are:
I've built a +1/+1 counters Atraxa list already, so I'm not exactly looking to move away from Jenara. Not to mention, the Bant land base in Jenara is going to be far more consistent (which can't be undersold) and I really don't see a whole lot of slots in the deck to be cut in order to add a color be it Black or Red. Thrasios + Ravos would probably be the best of the 4-color options, but Bant is such a strong shard that I'm not looking to add Black with the list we already have.
I've built a +1/+1 counters Atraxa list already, so I'm not exactly looking to move away from Jenara. Not to mention, the Bant land base in Jenara is going to be far more consistent (which can't be undersold) and I really don't see a whole lot of slots in the deck to be cut in order to add a color be it Black or Red. Thrasios + Ravos would probably be the best of the 4-color options, but Bant is such a strong shard that I'm not looking to add Black with the list we already have.
I actually don't think the mana base would be a problem. It would be more expensive, but not a problem. I've been playing Saskia, the Unyielding, and I've had next to no colour problems with her at all. I think with the amount abuse that Wood Elves and Yavimaya Dryad get here it would actually be even better than in Saskia. The main thing is that I'd have to drop some of the colourless lands, as it would be much harder to support having them.
I agree that Thrasios, Triton Hero + Ravos, Soultender would be pretty powerful. It puts a ton of utility and functionality in the command zone, which is amazing, but you lose out on the sheer threat of Jenara. Atraxa, Praetors' Voice doesn't give you as much utility, but maintains a similar threat level. Also, having a 4 power Lifelinker in the command zone would quite possibly convince me to drop Resolute Archangel, which would immediately free up at least one slot.
As I see it, these are the black cards that immediately come to mind that would be great to run here:
I'm probably forgetting some sweet stuff, those are just off the top of my head.
I'm sure I could find reasonable cuts for some or many or those. It might be worth looking into.
I do think that adding Black probably offers more than adding Red. Off the top of my head, Red cards I might want here are like:
No doubt that having an additional color is something that is pretty nice because you get access to a TON of other tools; you're absolutely right. I just don't find myself wanting or needing those cards. I've felt like this list is just about as tight as it can be for the last couple years and it has only gotten tighter as we've gotten some really amazing cards printed for us. I don't know if I'm sentimentally attached to the deck that we do have, but I just can't see myself cutting so many cards in order to add black.
When you add colors, there are always going to be more consistency issues even if, in a small sample size, they sort of worked out. It might be a couple percentage points, but it exists. I do think there are a ton of ways to make a good mana base without breaking the bank these days, though. I also think the colorless lands are a very underrated part of this deck's strength (Academy Ruins, Alchemists' Refuge, etc.) and only add to our utility.
As I've said, I already made an Atraxa counters list, so I won't be doing this, but the deck probably would be improved with Anguished Unmaking, Demonic/Vampiric Tutor, Reanimation Stuff, Mimeoplasm, but you have to sacrifice some of the creature-toolbox aspect in order to add straight value. It would be interesting for sure. Personally, Atraxa in the command zone is more appealing than the partners, at least for me.
Glad to see this deck still kicking! I recently put my own Jenara deck back together. Missed her!
I do run Voidslime. I like the versatility of it, even with the wonky cost. I think that Disallow is definitely better, although by the time I would use it I would already have at least a green on the field (given that I am prone to aim for my ramp creatures before much else, and most of them take at least one green.) Still, you never know.
It might not be worth acquiring a Disallow for such a slight upgrade,but one fell into my lap, so it was at no additional cost. For now, I'm using both.
It seems this thread has been abandoned, but just in case anyone is still listening. . .
Palinchron is a one-piece infinite mana combination but it costs seven to cast (and more to bounce and re-cast) and it's about eighteen dollars on eBay. Peregrine Drake on the other hand is five mana but requires an external flicker source. My deck is all about flicker anyway and I have three copies of Peregrine Drake in hand.
So the question is, "is Peregrine Drake an acceptable substitute for Palinchron given it's lower casting cost in spite of it's need for a combo enabler?"
Now I don't really have any use for infinite mana outside of Jenara, Asura of War, so the ability to produce mega-mana isn't critical, but it might be fun to try out.
I think that from the description of your deck Drake is an okay replacement. I feel that picking up a copy of Palincrhon isn't a bad idea though. Its much more powerful in a vacuum and its on the reserve list. Its so useful for so many decks that I think its a worthy investment. Of course, if you have 50$ for your deck then its not gonna make the cut.
I resisted getting many of the expensive cards because I play Commander infrequently and it doesn't really seem worthwhile, but if I thought for a minute that Palinchron could have anywhere near the impact Survival of the Fittest does - a card which I refused to buy for many months, I'd be on it ASAP.
I only mention budget because you brought up the price in your post. If you don't play commander frequently then it't probably worth saving the money for whatever format you prefer.
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Palinchron is better than Drake in the abstract because it doesn't require much effort to produce infinite mana. Gaea's Cradle and Phantasmal Image are useful cards on their own and with enough lands (or creatures) in play its an 'oops I win' moment. You can Tooth and Nail into Palinchron + Vorinclex if you wish as well.
The 5 Vs 7 CMC argument is interesting. I would say that this depends greatly on what youre using to enable Peregrine Drake. If the enabler is cheap enough then maybe you could combo a couple of turns earlier. I noticed that you were using Revillark combos. If thats the case then maybe Drake applies to that somehow.
Personally I prefer Palinchron as its just the best version of the thing. But I see places where Peregrine Drake is applicable.
I only mention budget because you brought up the price in your post. If you don't play commander frequently then it't probably worth saving the money for whatever format you prefer.
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Palinchron is better than Drake in the abstract because it doesn't require much effort to produce infinite mana. Gaea's Cradle and Phantasmal Image are useful cards on their own and with enough lands (or creatures) in play its an 'oops I win' moment. You can Tooth and Nail into Palinchron + Vorinclex if you wish as well.
The 5 Vs 7 CMC argument is interesting. I would say that this depends greatly on what youre using to enable Peregrine Drake. If the enabler is cheap enough then maybe you could combo a couple of turns earlier. I noticed that you were using Revillark combos. If thats the case then maybe Drake applies to that somehow.
Personally I prefer Palinchron as its just the best version of the thing. But I see places where Peregrine Drake is applicable.
Thanks for the replies and the good advice. The biggest issue I see with Palinchron combos is I don't see a way to beat everyone at once. Simply killing one opponent a turn isn't always good enough.
That's the beauty of Survival of the Fittest; Survival, about four G, one creature in hand and it's pretty much game-over.
I'm not dead, and this thread isn't abandoned! Not completely, at least. I know I've been away a while, and I apologize for that. Life got kinda crazy, between busy work, busy home life, and laser eye surgery (which I'm still in the process of recovering from).
I'm going to try to tackle everything I've missed, but sorry if I leave something out. Here goes!
Anything else from Aether Revolt suit anyone's fancy?
Walking Ballista is certainly a viable mana-sink for that infinite-mana combination.
Disallow definitely replaces Voidslime if you don't have room for both (which may end up being the right call). The card is almost strictly better (almost because of some edges cases changed by the colour difference). As for Walking Ballista, while it's obviously shown itself to be a fine card, I don't really think it's something that fits too well here. As for other cards from Aether Revolt, there are a few that could be worth consideration here (though none of these have yet made their way into my own list): Heroic Intervention, Trophy Mage, Rogue Refiner, and Renegade Rallier. I think each of these has potential to find a slot in the right versions of the list.
It might not be worth acquiring a Disallow for such a slight upgrade,but one fell into my lap, so it was at no additional cost. For now, I'm using both.
I even got to use Alchemist Refuge for (I believe) the first time!
Survival of the Fittest is definitely one of the most powerful cards in here. It can just do so, so much. I've actually kinda missed the combo with Mirror Entity. Maybe I'll find a way to slip him back in at some point. As is, my list (for a while now) only has the ability to combo via infinite turns.
It seems this thread has been abandoned, but just in case anyone is still listening. . .
Palinchron is a one-piece infinite mana combination but it costs seven to cast (and more to bounce and re-cast) and it's about eighteen dollars on eBay. Peregrine Drake on the other hand is five mana but requires an external flicker source. My deck is all about flicker anyway and I have three copies of Peregrine Drake in hand.
So the question is, "is Peregrine Drake an acceptable substitute for Palinchron given it's lower casting cost in spite of it's need for a combo enabler?"
Now I don't really have any use for infinite mana outside of Jenara, Asura of War, so the ability to produce mega-mana isn't critical, but it might be fun to try out.
What do you think?
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Honestly, if you want to be comboing with infinite mana, Palinchron really is your best friend. I don't think Peregrine Drake can even come close to doing its job as well. Also, I'm not sure of your list, but while Jenny herself is definitely an outlet for the mana, when I played the infinite mana combo I much more frequently used it to fuel flickering everything with Deadeye Navigator or Eldrazi Displacer, which will usually just win the game outright. Also, as was mentioned, when it comes to price, Palinchron really isn't all that much to worry about in the grand scheme.
So, some news: for the past while (around since the last time I posted), I've been tinkering with some big changes to this deck. Specifically, the swap from Bant to adding Black that I briefly mentioned way back when. I've been playing these last couple months with some variation on this list:
Some things to note here:
1) This is by no means final.
2) I've spent a long time testing this because it's a very big change, and it's been steadily evolving along the way.
3) After the amount of time I've spent with it, I still haven't really decided how I feel about it. I don't yet know if it's better or worse, it's just different, and I've been having fun with it.
4) I chose Atraxa, Praetors Voice over Thrasios, Triton Herp + Ravos, Soultender for a couple of key reason: Atraxa allows me to keep a threat in the Command zone, and I didn't want to try to find another cut for the partner.
The list has been performing well, and as I said, I've been having fun with it. The list definitely still neds some tweaking, though. For example, with the addition of Black, I've found myself having more tutors than I know what to do with. Additionally, while having lots of removal is good, I think I can probably trim some here.
Please, give me your thoughts! I'd love to know what you all think. Sorry about the wall of text!
tl;dr I'm back and Jenny got an infection a makeover!
So the question is, "is Peregrine Drake an acceptable substitute for Palinchron given it's lower casting cost in spite of it's need for a combo enabler?"
Now I don't really have any use for infinite mana outside of Jenara, Asura of War, so the ability to produce mega-mana isn't critical, but it might be fun to try out.
Mana for flickering is definitely an idea; I had overlooked it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Palinchron can be enabled in more ways since it can bounce itself, but I'm not sure I want to tune for either of them. I don't currently run any mana doublers or anything else that would work with Palinchron that wouldn't work with the little guy. I had several copies of Peregrine Drake and I thought it might be worth a test. The money isn't really much of an obstacle, it's true.
Right now, I'm having a great deal of fun with the newly added Survival of the Fittest, et. al., combo and Gilded Drake shenanigans. That little guy can just wreak havoc with the right support!
[quote from="ZenN »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/606002-jenara-asura-of-war-value-town?comment=319"]Mana for flickering is definitely an idea; I had overlooked it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Palinchron can be enabled in more ways since it can bounce itself, but I'm not sure I want to tune for either of them. I don't currently run any mana doublers or anything else that would work with Palinchron that wouldn't work with the little guy. I had several copies of Peregrine Drake and I thought it might be worth a test. The money isn't really much of an obstacle, it's true.
Right now, I'm having a great deal of fun with the newly added Survival of the Fittest, et. al., combo and Gilded Drake shenanigans. That little guy can just wreak havoc with the right support!
No Phantasmal Image? It plus Palinchron is infinite mana, thanks to the bounce ability. 2 to cast Image, 4 to bounce, untap 7 lands. Nets 1 mana each time. If you've got lands that make multiple mana (Ancient Tomb, Gaea's Cradle, etc) it can even work with other clones, like Phyrexian Metamorph and Clever Impersonator, though obviously much harder to pull off.
[quote from="ZenN »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/606002-jenara-asura-of-war-value-town?comment=319"]Mana for flickering is definitely an idea; I had overlooked it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Palinchron can be enabled in more ways since it can bounce itself, but I'm not sure I want to tune for either of them. I don't currently run any mana doublers or anything else that would work with Palinchron that wouldn't work with the little guy. I had several copies of Peregrine Drake and I thought it might be worth a test. The money isn't really much of an obstacle, it's true.
Right now, I'm having a great deal of fun with the newly added Survival of the Fittest, et. al., combo and Gilded Drake shenanigans. That little guy can just wreak havoc with the right support!
No Phantasmal Image? It plus Palinchron is infinite mana, thanks to the bounce ability. 2 to cast Image, 4 to bounce, untap 7 lands. Nets 1 mana each time. If you've got lands that make multiple mana (Ancient Tomb, Gaea's Cradle, etc) it can even work with other clones, like Phyrexian Metamorph and Clever Impersonator, though obviously much harder to pull off.
No, I don't play any clones currently, but I do have a Phantasmal Image pulled out and I intend to work it into the list. I realize it's been a shortcoming, but there are other cool things to try and I don't necessarily want to be doing everything exactly like the cool kids do.
It's good to know what the cool kids are doing and those things seem to always work better than my own ideas, but I still like to do some things differently. I don't think I would play at all if all I did was find and copy lists, you know? How dull would that be?
No, I don't play any clones currently, but I do have a Phantasmal Image pulled out and I intend to work it into the list. I realize it's been a shortcoming, but there are other cool things to try and I don't necessarily want to be doing everything exactly like the cool kids do.
It's good to know what the cool kids are doing and those things seem to always work better than my own ideas, but I still like to do some things differently. I don't think I would play at all if all I did was find and copy lists, you know? How dull would that be?
Doing your own thing is all fine and good, but not playing clones is just crazy talk.
No, I don't play any clones currently, but I do have a Phantasmal Image pulled out and I intend to work it into the list. I realize it's been a shortcoming, but there are other cool things to try and I don't necessarily want to be doing everything exactly like the cool kids do.
It's good to know what the cool kids are doing and those things seem to always work better than my own ideas, but I still like to do some things differently. I don't think I would play at all if all I did was find and copy lists, you know? How dull would that be?
Doing your own thing is all fine and good, but not playing clones is just crazy talk.
Well, I'd argue but I've pretty much already agreed, haven't I?
I doubt Amonkhet has anything that's more efficient than what's in the list already. Manglehorn could be a consideration to replace Rec Sage in artifact heavy metas, and perhaps the Serpopard could be a consideration for control heavy metas.
When a deck has been put together for a while and thoroughly tested, I just get the feeling that changes don't happen very often. Out of my 6 decklists, I've added maybe 2 cards in total since Kaladesh just because they are tuned and nothing else that was released really moved the needle for me. It's pretty normal for a deck such as this to not have a whole lot of changes.
I run both Disallow and Voidslime. But, then again, I really enjoy policing the board.
As far as the Palinchron debate, for me there is no replacement. I simply don't have a card to cut for something i find less flexible, needing more cards to combo with, and less resilient.
To answer your question, no, I haven't.
But. . . He really seems good to me only if I can name the Gearhulk as the artifact and keep Jenara, Asura of War as the creature. I might be able to re-top Sensei's Divining Top but I'm fond of my other artifacts too. Still, it might be worth a try and there's always Academy Ruins. I'm not interested to the point that I will buy that Gearhulk for a Commander deck test, but if I come across one in the packs I'm forced to buy for FNM entry or the prize packs I get from time to time, I could see giving it a try.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Tragic Arrogance, however, is amazing if you opponents have more than one of anything because YOU get to choose.
That said, his limitations are more than made up for by his convenience I think. I'm probably cutting Supreme Verdict for him.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Ancient Den ➝ Plains
Seat of the Synod ➝ Island
Tree of Tales ➝ Forest
Angel of Finality ➝ Recruiter of the Guard
Oblivion Stone ➝ Cataclysmic Gearhulk
Austere Command ➝ Bane of Progress
Tezzeret the Seeker ➝ Forest
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Thrasios, Triton Hero + either Ravos, Soultender or Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder could be solid.
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice is also very good.
Thoughts?
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I agree that Thrasios, Triton Hero + Ravos, Soultender would be pretty powerful. It puts a ton of utility and functionality in the command zone, which is amazing, but you lose out on the sheer threat of Jenara. Atraxa, Praetors' Voice doesn't give you as much utility, but maintains a similar threat level. Also, having a 4 power Lifelinker in the command zone would quite possibly convince me to drop Resolute Archangel, which would immediately free up at least one slot.
As I see it, these are the black cards that immediately come to mind that would be great to run here:
- Deathrite Shaman
- Disciple of Bolas
- Sidisi, Undead Vizier
- The Mimeoplasm
- Noxious Gearhulk
- Rune-Scarred Demon
- Whip of Erebos
- Vampiric Tutor
- Lim-Dûl's Vault
- Anguished Unmaking
- Sultai Charm
- Utter End
- Demonic Tutor
- Villainous Wealth
- Living Death
- Unburial Rites
I'm probably forgetting some sweet stuff, those are just off the top of my head.I'm sure I could find reasonable cuts for some or many or those. It might be worth looking into.
I do think that adding Black probably offers more than adding Red. Off the top of my head, Red cards I might want here are like:
- Dualcaster Mage
- Anger
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
- Zealous Conscripts
- Combustible Gearhulk
- Sunforger
- Counterflux
I also don't think the commander options for adding Red are nearly as strong as the ones for Black.EDIT: Added a couple more sweet red cards.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
When you add colors, there are always going to be more consistency issues even if, in a small sample size, they sort of worked out. It might be a couple percentage points, but it exists. I do think there are a ton of ways to make a good mana base without breaking the bank these days, though. I also think the colorless lands are a very underrated part of this deck's strength (Academy Ruins, Alchemists' Refuge, etc.) and only add to our utility.
As I've said, I already made an Atraxa counters list, so I won't be doing this, but the deck probably would be improved with Anguished Unmaking, Demonic/Vampiric Tutor, Reanimation Stuff, Mimeoplasm, but you have to sacrifice some of the creature-toolbox aspect in order to add straight value. It would be interesting for sure. Personally, Atraxa in the command zone is more appealing than the partners, at least for me.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Anything else from Aether Revolt suit anyone's fancy?
Walking Ballista is certainly a viable mana-sink for that infinite-mana combination.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I do run Voidslime. I like the versatility of it, even with the wonky cost. I think that Disallow is definitely better, although by the time I would use it I would already have at least a green on the field (given that I am prone to aim for my ramp creatures before much else, and most of them take at least one green.) Still, you never know.
Finally, I got to use Survival of the Fittest last night. It absolutely stole a game I had no business winning! Venser is definitely the value creature to use with the Reveillark, Body Double, Mirror Entity combo.
I even got to use Alchemist Refuge for (I believe) the first time!
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Palinchron is a one-piece infinite mana combination but it costs seven to cast (and more to bounce and re-cast) and it's about eighteen dollars on eBay. Peregrine Drake on the other hand is five mana but requires an external flicker source. My deck is all about flicker anyway and I have three copies of Peregrine Drake in hand.
So the question is, "is Peregrine Drake an acceptable substitute for Palinchron given it's lower casting cost in spite of it's need for a combo enabler?"
Now I don't really have any use for infinite mana outside of Jenara, Asura of War, so the ability to produce mega-mana isn't critical, but it might be fun to try out.
What do you think?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I resisted getting many of the expensive cards because I play Commander infrequently and it doesn't really seem worthwhile, but if I thought for a minute that Palinchron could have anywhere near the impact Survival of the Fittest does - a card which I refused to buy for many months, I'd be on it ASAP.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
-------
Palinchron is better than Drake in the abstract because it doesn't require much effort to produce infinite mana. Gaea's Cradle and Phantasmal Image are useful cards on their own and with enough lands (or creatures) in play its an 'oops I win' moment. You can Tooth and Nail into Palinchron + Vorinclex if you wish as well.
The 5 Vs 7 CMC argument is interesting. I would say that this depends greatly on what youre using to enable Peregrine Drake. If the enabler is cheap enough then maybe you could combo a couple of turns earlier. I noticed that you were using Revillark combos. If thats the case then maybe Drake applies to that somehow.
Personally I prefer Palinchron as its just the best version of the thing. But I see places where Peregrine Drake is applicable.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Thanks for the replies and the good advice. The biggest issue I see with Palinchron combos is I don't see a way to beat everyone at once. Simply killing one opponent a turn isn't always good enough.
That's the beauty of Survival of the Fittest; Survival, about four G, one creature in hand and it's pretty much game-over.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I'm going to try to tackle everything I've missed, but sorry if I leave something out. Here goes!
Disallow definitely replaces Voidslime if you don't have room for both (which may end up being the right call). The card is almost strictly better (almost because of some edges cases changed by the colour difference). As for Walking Ballista, while it's obviously shown itself to be a fine card, I don't really think it's something that fits too well here. As for other cards from Aether Revolt, there are a few that could be worth consideration here (though none of these have yet made their way into my own list): Heroic Intervention, Trophy Mage, Rogue Refiner, and Renegade Rallier. I think each of these has potential to find a slot in the right versions of the list.
Survival of the Fittest is definitely one of the most powerful cards in here. It can just do so, so much. I've actually kinda missed the combo with Mirror Entity. Maybe I'll find a way to slip him back in at some point. As is, my list (for a while now) only has the ability to combo via infinite turns.
Honestly, if you want to be comboing with infinite mana, Palinchron really is your best friend. I don't think Peregrine Drake can even come close to doing its job as well. Also, I'm not sure of your list, but while Jenny herself is definitely an outlet for the mana, when I played the infinite mana combo I much more frequently used it to fuel flickering everything with Deadeye Navigator or Eldrazi Displacer, which will usually just win the game outright. Also, as was mentioned, when it comes to price, Palinchron really isn't all that much to worry about in the grand scheme.
So, some news: for the past while (around since the last time I posted), I've been tinkering with some big changes to this deck. Specifically, the swap from Bant to adding Black that I briefly mentioned way back when. I've been playing these last couple months with some variation on this list:
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Lands (36)
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Mana Confluence
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Prairie Stream
1 Canopy Vista
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Mystic Snake
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Acidic Slime
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1 Body Double
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Noxious Gearhulk
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Sun Titan
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sphinx of Uthuun
Artifacts (8)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Birthing Pod
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Venser, the Sojourner
Instants (14)
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Counterspell
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Mana Drain
1 Abzan Charm
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Chord of Calling
1 Disallow
1 Sultai Charm
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Utter End
1 Mystic Confluence
Sorceries (5)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Living Death
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Tragic Arrogance
Some things to note here:
1) This is by no means final.
2) I've spent a long time testing this because it's a very big change, and it's been steadily evolving along the way.
3) After the amount of time I've spent with it, I still haven't really decided how I feel about it. I don't yet know if it's better or worse, it's just different, and I've been having fun with it.
4) I chose Atraxa, Praetors Voice over Thrasios, Triton Herp + Ravos, Soultender for a couple of key reason: Atraxa allows me to keep a threat in the Command zone, and I didn't want to try to find another cut for the partner.
The list has been performing well, and as I said, I've been having fun with it. The list definitely still neds some tweaking, though. For example, with the addition of Black, I've found myself having more tutors than I know what to do with. Additionally, while having lots of removal is good, I think I can probably trim some here.
Please, give me your thoughts! I'd love to know what you all think. Sorry about the wall of text!
tl;dr I'm back and Jenny got
an infectiona makeover!---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Mana for flickering is definitely an idea; I had overlooked it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Palinchron can be enabled in more ways since it can bounce itself, but I'm not sure I want to tune for either of them. I don't currently run any mana doublers or anything else that would work with Palinchron that wouldn't work with the little guy. I had several copies of Peregrine Drake and I thought it might be worth a test. The money isn't really much of an obstacle, it's true.
Right now, I'm having a great deal of fun with the newly added Survival of the Fittest, et. al., combo and Gilded Drake shenanigans. That little guy can just wreak havoc with the right support!
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
No, I don't play any clones currently, but I do have a Phantasmal Image pulled out and I intend to work it into the list. I realize it's been a shortcoming, but there are other cool things to try and I don't necessarily want to be doing everything exactly like the cool kids do.
It's good to know what the cool kids are doing and those things seem to always work better than my own ideas, but I still like to do some things differently. I don't think I would play at all if all I did was find and copy lists, you know? How dull would that be?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Well, I'd argue but I've pretty much already agreed, haven't I?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
As far as the Palinchron debate, for me there is no replacement. I simply don't have a card to cut for something i find less flexible, needing more cards to combo with, and less resilient.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/519790-jenara-edh-deck-no-budget
1 Jenara, Asura of War
CREATURES (30):
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Scavenging Oozey
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Eternal Witness
3 Wood Elves
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Recruiter of the Guard
3 Trinket Mage
3 Yavimaya Elder
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Restoration Angel
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Rafiq of the Many
4 Mystic Snake
5 Acidic Slime
5 Body Double
5 Mulldrifter
5 Karmic Guide
5 Reveillark
5 Seedborn Muse
6 Deadeye Navigator
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Sun Titan
7 Angel of Serenity
7 Palinchron
8 Vorinclex, Voice of hunger
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Cultivate
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Natural Order
5 Time Warp
6 Austere Command
7 Tooth and Nail
INSTANT (13):
0 Pact of Negation
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Mana Drain
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Eladamri's call
3 Chord of Calling
3 Krosan Grip
3 Beast Within
3 Voidslime
3 Disallow
4 Cryptic Command
ENCHANTMENTS (4):
1 Exploration
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
3 Rhystic Study
ARTIFACTS (10):
0 Tormod's Crypt
0 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Birthing Pod
All 3 colors
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Mana Confluence
Basic
3 Forest
3 Pains
3 Island
Multi-color
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
Temple Garden
1 Hollowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Fetches
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
Utility
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Buried Ruin
1 Reliquary Tower
Land Destruction
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
GW ELVES GW
UG INFECT UG
------- LEGACY -------
G ELVES G
UG INFECT UG
------- EDH Multi-Player -------
GWU Jenar, Asura of War GWU