Updated main deck list. Looking for comments and feedback. Played the deck last night and it did pretty well. Being able to always have access to the commander is great. Things I noticed are the swords can quickly make Derevi not be able to untap herself so I usually was just untapping lands. Also Lightning Greaves should probably go as Shroud is not great when Derevi is the only creature on the battlefield. Banes to the deck are things like Vandalblast.
I am not interested in Winter Orb / Stasis type cards but if there are other ways to abuse Derevi that would work with the voltron theme I'd love to hear about them.
Yeah, in my experience the problem with voltron is you play your general and then it sits there until your next turn when you can attack someone. Meanwhile wraths wipe your general out and then you have to cast it again. Obviously haste solves this issue. The problem still remains that your general is the main way to win and every time it gets answered you have to pay two more which can eventually be too much to cast.
I'm thinking about picking up Rafiq of the Many to have in the deck for more exalted and double strike. I could then try him as the commander but with no protection at all I don't have high hopes.
Derevi also has built in flying which is very useful in getting past blockers.
I'd kind of like to keep Bonehoard in for the potential huge P/T boost but didn't see any other obvious cuts. Maybe take out Forgotten Ancient for it? The bost have same cc and both do the same kind of thing. Also debating creatures that tap for value like Arcanis the Omnipotent to abuse Derevi's triggers. Any other Bant permanents with tap abilities that would be nice in here?
So played this deck a lot over the weekend and after multiple games was still winless with Derevi. Tried subbing in Rafiq and won the first game I played with him. Can't argue with results so going to switch the commander.
Now that's you're playing Rafiq instead of Derevi, there are a lot of refinements you could be making. I think it would be really helpful for you to check out some of the other established Rafiq threads.
Any specific suggestions? I did take a look at some of the other lists. I'm planning on getting Thada Adel, Acquisitor and Cephalid Constable. Other than that I need to see how the deck plays and go from there
Well, you've got a lot of equipment there, plus multiple ways to go find them. I feel like you can trim that down to only the best ones, and make room for more controlling cards, like Voidslime and Cryptic Command.
Also, I don't know how competitive you want to be, but Armageddon and Ravages of War are really good in Rafiq. Generally speaking, if you can stick him and follow him by blowing up all lands, you usually win.
Also also, I feel like Phyrexian Metamorph would be better than Masterwork of Ingenuity. Yes, it costs more, but it's also incredibly more versatile and can serve multiple roles.
Also also also, Trading Post seems incredibly lackluster here. I would definitely cut that one.
Yeah I see what you mean. I need to get out of the Thrun mindset with this deck. Thrun you really had to stack the damage to kill people. It's a lot easier to one shot people with Rafiq.
I don't have a Cryptic Command and don't feel like spending $40 or whatever for one. Sleep looks like a decent alternative although for more mana I could go for things like Archetype of Imagination. Also feel like Asceticism would be worth it. Doesn't protect from wraths but Rafiq takes a lot of single target removal when I play him.
Sleep is definitely not a replacement for Cryptic Command, and not even worth including. The thing about Cryptic Command is just the ridiculous amount of versatility it offers.
Civic Saber is a cheap +3/+0 on Rafiq, though I'm guessing it doesn't quite hold up to the splashier Equipment already in discussion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Both cards I'm removing can be nice draw options and Garruk makes creatures which can carry swords but both are conditional and can whiff hard. I'm worried that I'm getting low on card draw but I almost always go for Sword of Fire and Ice first so it isn't too much of a problem. Thinking about adding Bident of Thassa and/or Coastal Piracy for more draw that goes along with the hitting people for advantage theme. Speaking of Thassa, God of the Sea she should probably be in here but I might wait for her to rotate as I think the price will go down. I'm wary of things that have to target creatures due to shroud / protections from swords but indestructible unblockable with scry should be a good option.
Well, Bident of Thassa is definitely better than Coastal Piracy, since you can also use it to make Rafiq unblockable, but there's something to keep in mind here.
You don't want all of your draw to rely on you doing something. When you're NOT doing anything is when draw spells are most important, and so if you draw a card that only draws you a card if you're already doing things, then that doesn't really help, right?
I am personally not a fan of Arcane Denial. That's something that ISBPathfinder and I discussed at length in my Jenara thread (link in my sig).
Other than that, though, those are all really solid inclusions.
I would say that you can probably trim a land, and I don't love Nahiri, the Lithomancer here.
Also, I'm pretty positive you can trim off some of those equipments. I'd say cut down to like 5 instead of the 14 you're playing.
Yeah I was looking at your Jenara deck and going ETB instead of combat triggers is probably a stronger way to go. I'm already doing that with Animar though and want to try to go another way with this deck. Each of my decks play differently but if combat triggers doesn't work long term I'd probably go ETB instead.
Of course can't just rely on Rafiq since he has no protection and die a lot. I think I just have to play this deck more and see what works and what doesn't.
Yeah, I wasn't saying you should switch over to that style of deck, I was just referring you to the discussion about Arcane Denial.
Also, having something equipped to Rafiq is definitely nice, but you don't need so many. Especially not with three or four ways of tutoring whichever one you actually want. 14 is a LOT of equipment.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I'm taking out Rancor which is my last aura so in my version of Rafiq Sovereigns of Lost Alara doesn't fit. I've thought about Quest for the Holy Relic but I think it would be too slow because I'm not casting a ton of creatures. Godsend is interesting but I don't think its better than the other equipment I'm running.
The two equipment I think were my weakest and the colored Behemoth Sledge doesn't play well with my Swords. Rancor is nice but I still think pales in comparison to my other buffs. Leonin Abunas is good protection for the artifacts and can swing for damage if needed but at this point I'm not seeing obvious cuts so he is getting the axe. I think if I want this effect I'd pick up Hanna's Custody which is a little cheaper and less prone to removal.
The four cards I'm brining in is pretty much Bant good stuff but I think they are all better than the cards I'm taking out.
Influenced by ctucker999's Rafiq List, Mr Coupon's Rafiq List and ZenN's Jenara List.
One Shots:
Rafiq of the Many + Eldrazi Conscription
Rafiq of the Many + Finest Hour
Rafiq of the Many + Grafted Exoskeleton
Infinite Turns:
Venser, the Sojourner + Eternal Witness/Archaeomancer + Capture of Jingzhou/Temporal Manipulation/Time Warp
4 Rafiq of the Many
Creatures (22)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Eternal Witness
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
3 Trygon Predator
4 Archaeomancer
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Medomai the Ageless
6 Sun Titan
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Instants (15)
0 Pact of Negation
1 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Noxious Revival
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Worldly Tutor
2 Counterspell
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Eladamri's Call
2 Mana Drain
3 Beast Within
4 Fact or Fiction
5 Force of Will
3x Sphinx's Revelation
1 Steelshaper's Gift
2 Nature's Lore
2 Three Visits
3 Eldritch Evolution
4 Supreme Verdict
5 Capture of Jingzhou
5 Temporal Manipulation
5 Time Warp
3x Wargate
Equipment (7)
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Mask of Memory
2 Trailblazer's Boots
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Grafted Exoskeleton
Artifacts (4)
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
Auras (1)
8 Eldrazi Conscription
Enchantments (4)
1 Exploration
2 Sylvan Library
3 Rhystic Study
5 Finest Hour
Planeswalkers (3)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
5 Venser, the Sojourner
Lands (34)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
3 Island
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Mother of Runes
2 Containment Priest
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Gilded Drake
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Cephalid Constable
3 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Hushwing Gryff
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
4 Hokori, Dust Drinker
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Sublime Archangel
4 Temur Sabertooth
6 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
1 Nature's Claim
1 Swan Song
Sorceries
6 Walk the Aeons
Enchantments
1 Burgeoning
1 Mystic Remora
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wild Growth
2 Rest in Peace
2 Survival of the Fittest
3 Aura of Silence
4 Bident of Thassa
4 Coastal Piracy
2 Conqueror's Flail
Artifacts
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Grim Monolith
Planeswalkers
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
I am not interested in Winter Orb / Stasis type cards but if there are other ways to abuse Derevi that would work with the voltron theme I'd love to hear about them.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Legacy: GWR Enchantress <--That's my banner! (lol tinypic removed it)
Casual: WB [[Primer]]Clerics Tribal; BU Affinity
EDH: ...U [[Primer]]Arcum Dagsson; BG Legal Stax; B Illegal Stax
Proxy: .WX TriniStax
Other stuff: [[Official]]Shuffling, Truth + Maths
I'm thinking about picking up Rafiq of the Many to have in the deck for more exalted and double strike. I could then try him as the commander but with no protection at all I don't have high hopes.
Derevi also has built in flying which is very useful in getting past blockers.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
1 Forest
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Eldrazi Conscription
1 Increasing Savagery
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Argentum Armor
1 Bonehoard
1 Sword of Kaldra
1 Champion's Helm
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
1 Forest
1 Argentum Armor
1 Bonehoard
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Trading Post
1 Diviner's Wand
I'd kind of like to keep Bonehoard in for the potential huge P/T boost but didn't see any other obvious cuts. Maybe take out Forgotten Ancient for it? The bost have same cc and both do the same kind of thing. Also debating creatures that tap for value like Arcanis the Omnipotent to abuse Derevi's triggers. Any other Bant permanents with tap abilities that would be nice in here?
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
1 Diviner's Wand
1 Harmonize
1 Wrath of God
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Derevi, Empyrial tactician
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Sword of Kaldra
1 Hero's Blade
1 Aura Shards
1 Greater Good
1 True Conviction
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Rogue's Gloves
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Rebuff the Wicked
1 Nature's Claim
1 Turn Aside
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Pongify
1 Dispatch
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Opal Palace
1 Brushland
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
1 Prowler's Helm
1 Overwhelming Stampede
1 O-Naginata
1 Rebuff the Wicked
1 Rogue's Gloves
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Turn Aside
1 Champion's Helm
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Augury Adept
1 Daxos of Meletis
1 Medomai the Ageless
1 Trygon Predator
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Mirari's Wake
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Also, I don't know how competitive you want to be, but Armageddon and Ravages of War are really good in Rafiq. Generally speaking, if you can stick him and follow him by blowing up all lands, you usually win.
Also also, I feel like Phyrexian Metamorph would be better than Masterwork of Ingenuity. Yes, it costs more, but it's also incredibly more versatile and can serve multiple roles.
Also also also, Trading Post seems incredibly lackluster here. I would definitely cut that one.
Lastly, I think you would benefit very heavily from a Tezzeret the Seeker.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Dropping Inquisitor's Flail and Trading Post for Tezzeret the Seeker and Elspeth, Knight-Errant.
I don't have a Cryptic Command and don't feel like spending $40 or whatever for one. Sleep looks like a decent alternative although for more mana I could go for things like Archetype of Imagination. Also feel like Asceticism would be worth it. Doesn't protect from wraths but Rafiq takes a lot of single target removal when I play him.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Both cards I'm removing can be nice draw options and Garruk makes creatures which can carry swords but both are conditional and can whiff hard. I'm worried that I'm getting low on card draw but I almost always go for Sword of Fire and Ice first so it isn't too much of a problem. Thinking about adding Bident of Thassa and/or Coastal Piracy for more draw that goes along with the hitting people for advantage theme. Speaking of Thassa, God of the Sea she should probably be in here but I might wait for her to rotate as I think the price will go down. I'm wary of things that have to target creatures due to shroud / protections from swords but indestructible unblockable with scry should be a good option.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
You don't want all of your draw to rely on you doing something. When you're NOT doing anything is when draw spells are most important, and so if you draw a card that only draws you a card if you're already doing things, then that doesn't really help, right?
I'd probably put Sphinx's Revelation in there somewhere.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Ordered a Time Warp, Sphinx's Revelation, Bant Charm, and Wargate. Looking for suggestions on what to cut.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Other than that, though, those are all really solid inclusions.
I would say that you can probably trim a land, and I don't love Nahiri, the Lithomancer here.
Also, I'm pretty positive you can trim off some of those equipments. I'd say cut down to like 5 instead of the 14 you're playing.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Looking soley at Rafiq he one shots with either:
Grafted Exoskeleton
Finest Hour
+7 power (some combination of equipment, exalted triggers, Might of Oaks, etc)
He two shots with at least +2 power from equipment, auras, other exalted triggers, whatever. Can combine with extra turns to "one shot" people.
One or two shotting is dependent on being unblockable and the only way I have to give unblockable right now is Whispersilk Cloak. The swords also kind of count for the protections but unblockable is better. Other things I could add are Thassa, God of the Sea, Venser, the Sojourner, Prowler's Helm, Trailblazer's Boots, Steel of the Godhead, Distortion Strike, Artful Dodge, Spirit en-Dal, Archetype of Imagination, Sun Quan, Lord of Wu, Veil of Secrecy. Some of these are pretty janky and I'd tend towards the repeatable ones.
Of course can't just rely on Rafiq since he has no protection and die a lot. I think I just have to play this deck more and see what works and what doesn't.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Also, having something equipped to Rafiq is definitely nice, but you don't need so many. Especially not with three or four ways of tutoring whichever one you actually want. 14 is a LOT of equipment.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
1 Rancor
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Wargate
1 Bant Charm
1 Time Warp
The two equipment I think were my weakest and the colored Behemoth Sledge doesn't play well with my Swords. Rancor is nice but I still think pales in comparison to my other buffs. Leonin Abunas is good protection for the artifacts and can swing for damage if needed but at this point I'm not seeing obvious cuts so he is getting the axe. I think if I want this effect I'd pick up Hanna's Custody which is a little cheaper and less prone to removal.
The four cards I'm brining in is pretty much Bant good stuff but I think they are all better than the cards I'm taking out.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats