I'm a little leery on the new jace. I think he's really good in spell slinger decks, but I've never really liked looter effects unless I'm looking to interact with my grave in a meaningful way. I don't think mono-blue has the tools to reliably take advantage of the grave as consistently as UBx decks, so I've not felt the need to test him extensively.
Those aren´t the same decks, but have you ever played against a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (High Tide) Deck? I was also sceptical at first, but the possibility of recasting crucial spells is imo really strong, even if you don´t like the loot-effect (still good with Treasure Cruise / Dig Through Time), his planeswalker side is imo really good for reasons stated earlier.
I'm viewing him as sort of a Snapcaster Mage on layaway. You get a looter now, and the flashback later
I'm a little leery on the new jace. I think he's really good in spell slinger decks, but I've never really liked looter effects unless I'm looking to interact with my grave in a meaningful way. I don't think mono-blue has the tools to reliably take advantage of the grave as consistently as UBx decks, so I've not felt the need to test him extensively.
Those aren´t the same decks, but have you ever played against a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (High Tide) Deck? I was also sceptical at first, but the possibility of recasting crucial spells is imo really strong, even if you don´t like the loot-effect (still good with Treasure Cruise / Dig Through Time), his planeswalker side is imo really good for reasons stated earlier.
My best friend has an Alamo storm list that is annoyingly good and stupidly lucky. I haven't played against the particular version piloted by jack, but I can't imagine it's too different an the Alamo list which is in my sig. He evaluated the card and decided it wasn't quite good enough in his build since he wanted every spell he drew and is already land light as a list anyway.
Thank you for returning the favor. Primers require quite a bit of work to create, and having more traffic to the thread is gratifying. I tried to make it visually appealing with more pictures so that the text of the OP is broken up into more manageable pieces. Psychology thing, is how I thought about it.
I'm a little leery on the new jace. I think he's really good in spell slinger decks, but I've never really liked looter effects unless I'm looking to interact with my grave in a meaningful way. I don't think mono-blue has the tools to reliably take advantage of the grave as consistently as UBx decks, so I've not felt the need to test him extensively.
I'm willing to point people towards well written threads anytime. I think giving people an ample supply of options to choose from helps them find the commander that best fits them, which in turn helps them enjoy the format more, which in turn helps the format grow, etc. Memnarch also just happened to fit nicely into that portion of my thread
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy as been working fairly well so far. In Azami he can be just another dork that draws cards if need be; I don't actually have to flip him once my commander is in play. Early on he helps me loot for more lands if I need them or bins them to the yard for more gas if I happen to be flooding out. Late game he breaks my opponent's backs with extra casts of spells like High Tide, Time Warp, and even Reality Shift or Evacuation if I'm in need of them. Plus he's a very cheap mana investment overall and curves nicely into my 3 and 4 drops and eventually my commander. I've always been one to let actually experiencing the cards influence my deck choices though so he's definitely going to get tested for a while before I come to any concrete conclusions.
Perhaps I'm a little biased and should have tested him objectively. My best friend and I had evaluated him and not seen as much interaction that wasn't already present in either of our decks. However, the new jace would be absolutely fantastic in my tasigur deck, since he directly helps with the game plan there so perhaps I've dismissed him too quickly.
Perhaps I'm a little biased and should have tested him objectively. My best friend and I had evaluated him and not seen as much interaction that wasn't already present in either of our decks. However, the new jace would be absolutely fantastic in my tasigur deck, since he directly helps with the game plan there so perhaps I've dismissed him too quickly.
I imagine Tasigur would like an early drop that both fills the yard and gives card selection. Seems like a match made in your opponents tears
The more games I see this card, the more solid he seems. No wonder he terrorizes Duel Commander tables. Being able to guarantee having access to him as early as you want seems brutal for anyone playing against it.
Again, I think a large amount of praise for this card hinges on the fact that he's also a wizard for Azami to make use of. So my results may be slightly biased.
Edit: you also might want to add more sorceries and instants if you want to support docent of perfection.
I am getting hooked on this guy, but I usually test my cards for a while so I have a clear idea of whether or not I like it in the deck. If I had to guess he's going to probably make it though.
I generally try to keep my wizards pretty cost efficient for what they do and Inspired Sprite being 4 mana just for drawing even more cards pushed her out of contention with some of the other creatures I wanted to run. Its the same reason I don't run wizards like Fallowsage either. They're good options, just didn't make the cut for this particular list.
So far I think the deck has a high enough density of relevant instants and sorceries to make Docent of Perfection worth it. Because the deck's primary goal is to draw a lot of cards I find that most of the time we have our pick of any number of spells to help trigger his ability. If our commander didn't happen to be focused on sifting through so much of our deck so quickly then I would be more inclined to increase the count. I might add some more if I find he isn't performing well enough and I really want to make him work, but I'd rather remove 1 card in the 99 than shape the whole 99 around that 1. Unless that 1 ends up becoming it's own commander of course
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Have a great day
Jace VP is obviously good. No real testing required.
Inspired Sprite and Sapphire Medallion could just keep you drawing cards but it really does seem a lot of your instants are counter magic. You actually have a low density of spells other than counter magic.
You have enough wizards to flip docent, but not a ton of spells to where docent could win the game on his own.
Jace VP is obviously good. No real testing required.
Inspired Sprite and Sapphire Medallion could just keep you drawing cards but it really does seem a lot of your instants are counter magic. You actually have a low density of spells other than counter magic.
You have enough wizards to flip docent, but not a ton of spells to where docent could win the game on his own.
For me all things require at least a little testing. Sometimes cards are just better or worse than they might appear at first and I like to give myself a grace period before formally changing my lists to accurately judge their merits. Just a little quirk of mine I guess.
I do love my counterspells and there are quite a bit of them in here, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. They're one of blue's strongest tools and help defend things like the Docent from interaction from my opponents. Every spell I stop becomes a wizard, which in turn draws me more cards, which in turn gives me more counter magic and a greater chance to find those power cards like Time Warp or High Tide. I don't really feel like he'll be an "I win" card for this list, but more of a snowball effect that quickly gets out of control when left alone to work with other parts of the deck.
I'm not really running him to flip and attack for lethal. I just like the idea of having a decent token generator that makes the draw engine of the deck grow increasingly larger like Stonybrook Schoolmaster could have done had it not been white. If he does flip and let me get a massive wizard attack then I will be very happy though
Problem is even as a token generator, I rarely would find the time to actually resolve this card and get much value out of it. I have to admit though, he is really good with Patron Wizard. By the time I hit 5 mana I am looking to drop Azami, more cheap wizards, or get ready to play an extra turn effect or mana doubler so I can go crazy. Honestly, in Azami I have multiple combo wins, so going for a 5 drop wizard token generator just doesn't make the grade sadly. Although, in a more casual setting I can see playing him easily. But I do have my pet cards I run so I can understand why folks play Docent, so I won't hate cuz I am just as guilty lol.
Hello Everyone! Sorry I haven't been around on the site or my threads as often. I just recently started a new job and am currently working around 55+ hours a week so things are a little hectic as I work around my new schedule. That doesn't mean that I've stopped playing Magic though, and I have certainly been testing out new iterations of this list deck during my absence. Before we talk about the actual change to the deck I wanted to say that I also, like Elminster and others, am trying to find the right spot for Docent of Perfection. Against more "fair" strategies he's been a lot of fun, but when matched up against the absurd value of things like Maelstrom Wanderer or Titania, Protector of Argoth things get a little dicey because of how slow he can feel against those decks. I'm still trying to figure out how far I'm willing to go to make him a better fit for the deck. Time will tell
The newest change isn't too much of a surprise for those that read some of the comments on this thread, but it still is a change so I'm going to log it. I never really had the opportunity to test out Jace, Vryn's Prodigy until the last couple of months what with his price becoming absurd for a while (especially for a card I was only thinking of adding to the deck). I'm all aboard the hype train now though and can say with confidence that he's an extraordinarily good card. He does everything Sage of Epityr did but better. He comes out early and digs through the top of our deck. He provides another wizard body for Azami to make use of when she hits the field. And on top of all of that he provides another Snapcaster effect when you can/want to flip him, gifting us yet another way to abuse things like Time Warp, Bribery, or Rite of Replication. He's been a big success in almost every game I've played with the deck since adding him and I don't believe he'll be leaving anytime soon.
I was lucky enough just this week, because of all of the hours I've been working, to pick up a foil Jace for the deck. That should show how serious I am about how good this crazy little 0/2 really is. I hope you all have been having an wonderful time in the month I've been away. I will be trying to schedule my free time a little better so that I can stay relatively active on the site, but it's a work in progress. Look for the 'Conspiracy 2 Set Review' sometime within the next week or so. Until next time guys - Have a great day!
I know its been a while since I've last updated the thread. I'm finally getting away from the busy season and have been able get back to my favorite hobby more frequently. Work and class eat up a lot of my time, but I hope seeing me post at least something here lets you all know that I'm not dead and plan to continue to play test and brew with my favorite commander
Since I have been gone for so long I'm going to be doing a lot of set reviews all at once. Here we go!
Conspiracy 2 (11/24/2016)
Expropriate - I'm a big fan of extra turn effects so this card just speaks to me. What it tells me to do is pay 9 CMC for one extra turn and a Blatant Thievery, but that's still pretty sweet in my book. For my personal play group I feel it would be a tad too slow. Maybe in a more casual, grindy meta that allows you to durdle into the late game more often. I'll still test this one just because it looks like fun to resolve.
Stunt Double - Strictly better Clone! Just taking a look at my list you should be able to tell I'm a sucker for copying/"borrowing" my opponent's permanents. This clone has flash which plays perfectly into our best defense that is to simply hold up mana for counter magic and wait for something scary to happen. Might try him out instead of Rite of Replication for a little bit to see if flash is better than sometimes winning the game with kicker. We will find out.
Kaladesh (11/24/2016)
Dramatic Reversal - Kind of a less powerful Turnabout. Costs less, but can't do our broken or infinite shenanigans with lands. Could be interesting as a strange draw spell with a bunch of wizards in play, but more than likely its just a "win more" card. Still thought I'd throw the idea out there.
Insidious Will - Cryptic Command is that you? No, no its not. That being said this card does do a lot of my favorite things about blue and gives the power of choice which should never be underestimated. I'll test it in place of Twincast and see if the extra mana to cast it is worth it or if it just sits dead in my hand forever
Paradoxical Outcome - Super cool toy. Not as good in our deck as some others, but could still help dodge some board wipes while getting more value from our ETB effecs and drawing us cards on top of it. This is a spicy one and I'd be interested to see who's been trying it out in any deck since its release.
Saheeli's Artistry - A Clone and/or a Sculpting Steel with, again, options to choose from. The 6 CMC makes me sad, but not all of Blue's toys get to be broken. Solid value for a powerful ability in Commander. I've already seen it a few times recently (I'm looking at you Breya!).
Torrential Gearhulk - Its no Diluvian Primordial but not a lot of things can be really. Still the one less CMC and the addition of flash makes it tempting to at least test him a little. Could make a fun combat trick. This particular wizard deck doesn't usually drop 5/6's out of nowhere so I might be able to catch a few people until they catch on.
Commander 2016 (11/24/2016)
Coastal Breach - Blue doesn't get too many board wipes that make themselves worth including. The new 'Undaunted' mechanic means this one might be worth the time to find out if it is good enough. A normal 4 player game means it only costs 4 CMC which seems like pretty good value to me. Sorcery speed brings it down a notch for me. However, thats probably just because I've been spoiled by Cyclonic Rift for too long now.
Faerie Artisans - This card is super strange to me, and I think with the density of ETB creatures that populate Commander it could be incredibly powerful. I wonder how much of a "kill on sight" creature this one will be in the future with things like the new Gearhulks being printed. It's value can only go up as more sets are printed. If only it was a wizard!
Manifold Insights - So I heard you guys like Fact or Fiction. Seriously though I think this card, while suffering from the age old problem of letting our opponents choose, is insane value. It also, like good old FoF, opens the doors for some political choices. Maybe certain players give you good spells hoping you'll deal with someone else. Maybe you're given something like a Time Warp just to make you the threat so people try and kill you. I like a card that works on multiple angles within the game and this one does it pretty well by letting every player get involved in the effect.
Welp that's all of the new cards I've been taking a look at lately, and I'll be sure to update the thread should any concrete changes occur to the list. As always I hope you guys are all having a great day and/or holiday break if you're lucky enough to have the time to enjoy it haha. Feel free to leave any questions or comments you have and I'll get back to them as soon as possible. Take care
Sorry for resurrecting what might be a finished thread, but thanks so much for this Primer. I was wondering, as someone who has never played blue before (other than in 5-color super friends), could you give some tips on what we should be looking out for to counter with this deck? Since i've never played control, I'm worried i'll counter the wrong stuff wasting cards, or not counter stuff and regret it.
From your primer I'm thinking the key is mostly protecting Azami and combo pieces. So when someone tries to counter our casting, or hit it with a removal some other time..... I assume massive board wipes would also be good to counter if we have a pretty filled out board state?
So, anything else specifically to look out for while playing this deck?
I have been away dealing with a lot of personal issues like work and school for a while now, but I think my life is finally less hectic enough to come back to MTGS and play commander again
I'm free anytime to discuss Azami and her strategies now. I know I am very late getting back into this thread, but if you're still around and want to talk I'll be here now
Look for updates and revisions soon. As well as the Commander 2017 set review. I'm super excited to try out some new toys.
Great to hear!
We have a couple of possible nice toys.
Galecaster Colossus: My opinion on this guy changes every day. One day I find him too expensive and clunky, the other day it seems like one of the best Wizards for my Azami-deck ever. Magus of the Mind: Another expensive Wizard in the deck. It has a great potential but I play too many counter spells for it. Kindred Discovery: great card-advantage and allows me to attack with Wizards while still drawing cards. But do we want that? Portal Mage: My personal favourite from the entire set. This is so much fun. Path of Ancestry should definitely be included. A free scry 1 nearly every turn seems too good to be true.
Been playing an Azami list for a few months now, albeit with some budget alternatives. But would say that C17 wasn't too impressing on the Wizarding front, then again I somewhat expected it.
For myself, I'm looking to at least include Path of Ancestry and am still considering Kindred Discovery. Discovery forms an interesting additional draw engine for when Azami gets removed too often, but the CMC is keeping me in doubt about the card.
Galecaster Colossus: My opinion on this guy changes every day. One day I find him too expensive and clunky, the other day it seems like one of the best Wizards for my Azami-deck ever.
If you're running a control build of Azami, it seems good enough to play especially since removal is weak in mono-blue. I can see it being very annoying with Paradox Engine.
Since it doesn't allow you to bounce you're own permanents, it's unplayable in a strictly combo version.
Great to hear!
We have a couple of possible nice toys.
Galecaster Colossus: My opinion on this guy changes every day. One day I find him too expensive and clunky, the other day it seems like one of the best Wizards for my Azami-deck ever. Magus of the Mind: Another expensive Wizard in the deck. It has a great potential but I play too many counter spells for it. Kindred Discovery: great card-advantage and allows me to attack with Wizards while still drawing cards. But do we want that? Portal Mage: My personal favourite from the entire set. This is so much fun. Path of Ancestry should definitely be included. A free scry 1 nearly every turn seems too good to be true.
Obviously it will change depending on how you want the deck to play out, but I don't think ill be including Magus of the Mind or Kindred Discovery in my particular build. With the magus, usually when I'm casting 3+ spells in a given turn I tend to be winning the game and I also run a fair amount of permission in the deck. The enchantment is a better card in my opinion, but way better with a wizard commander other than Azami where the greatest strength of our deck is the fact that we draw so many cards. I may still test it, but I think it may be a bit redundant. I could definitely be wrong though.
Portal Mage seems more my style if I feel like adding more anti-aggro cards to the list. This might be a meta call. Blue gets so many fun toys that the cuts are getting harder and harder to make. This one will get testing for sure.
Galecaster Colossus would have been the most absurd card ever if we could bounce our own non-land permanents. Thank god they didn't release that upon the Commander world. He seems strong though, especially in a slower meta where people just want to populate a board and then alpha strike in the mid to late game. He's probably too slow for the way my group has been running for the last half a year. I'm also up in the air about this one.
Path of Ancestry makes me sad for entering the battlefield tapped, but free scry triggers are free scry triggers. Should see inclusions in quite a few tribal decks. I still hate slow lands with this deck though. UGGGGGGHHH!
Been playing an Azami list for a few months now, albeit with some budget alternatives. But would say that C17 wasn't too impressing on the Wizarding front, then again I somewhat expected it.
For myself, I'm looking to at least include Path of Ancestry and am still considering Kindred Discovery. Discovery forms an interesting additional draw engine for when Azami gets removed too often, but the CMC is keeping me in doubt about the card.
Yeah, I still might try out Kindred Discovery because I believe you never know how good/bad a card is without playing it, but my hopes aren't high. Drawing cards is kind of our decks thing already and I think slots that this fits into are better used on powerful effects like Treachery or Time Warp for the same CMC.
Galecaster Colossus: My opinion on this guy changes every day. One day I find him too expensive and clunky, the other day it seems like one of the best Wizards for my Azami-deck ever.
If you're running a control build of Azami, it seems good enough to play especially since removal is weak in mono-blue. I can see it being very annoying with Paradox Engine.
Since it doesn't allow you to bounce you're own permanents, it's unplayable in a strictly combo version.
Agreed. He seems absurd in play with Azami and a couple more wizards. Patron Wizard as well if you feel like being a jerk about it
My list leans much more towards control then it does combo, but the main theme thats been growing is clones and "Use your stuff" effects. He still seems just a little slow though. 7 mana is a lot. In terms of mana investment it would be right up there with something like Palinchron and he just wins the game when we tap that much to cast him usually. I'll test him though, and I always hope to be pleasantly surprised.
I too prefer control over combo and I love that we get more control. Now I only wish we got some more finishers, because now I feel as if I can only finish with a combo..
And that is one of the many reason's I love Azami so much. Tribal theme, mono-color, draws cards, and can end a game more or less regardless of life totals, board presence, and other nonsense like that. Seeing the new Teferi's Protection card makes me glad I can just win the game anyway even though that player is off lost in time somewhere
I think for my list the best non-combo win condition I have anymore is just a well timed Rite of Replication on something like an Inferno Titan. It happens enough that I don't always have to combo. Bribery works in a similar fashion when done early also. Wanting to not always be accelerating towards a combo and ruining a lot of games for my friends is one of the reason's the clone and theft effect theme became so pronounced in the deck. It gives you options throughout the game and lets you have outs when you either can't or don't want to combo off again.
I want to start off this round of changes by saying that I think I've reached the point in this deck where I have too many favorite cards to choose from. Every round of changes means that cards I love playing with, and that are usually also very powerful, are getting cut somewhere in the list. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is the main casualty this time around. He is absurdly powerful, and works very well with the general wants of the deck. However, I have noticed lately that I have never "needed" him to win. He solidified my victory like he does for a lot of other combo strategies, but never did I think it was vital that he be in play before I started my shenanigans. He has become sort of win more as crazy as it is to say. He also competes with other 5 drops in the deck and, even though he has flash, always appears to be my last choice of things to cast in a given turn. This may be partly because of how my meta is shifting to very fast paced tactics both combo and aggro oriented. So it looks like it's time to start turning up the dials a little bit on Azami and adding a couple cards back in that haven't been in here since before I made this thread - Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond. Wayfarer's Bauble also gets the axe to make room for the more risky, but much faster mana accelerators. I still don't want to necessarily win more quickly, but I want the chance to get out of the gates and set up for the game before I'm overrun by decks like Karlov and Saskia. Daring Apprentice served it's purpose well as a 'layaway' counterspell for protecting Azami, but I've come to prefer the medallion like effect of Baral. He blocks very well as a 1/3 body early in the game, reduces the cost of many cards in our deck, and lets us loot when we use our large amount of permission spells. He's very strong and I cut what I perceived as the weakest link among my wizards to make room for him.
Finally we get to Evacuation. I know it seems counterintuitive that I both talked about the rise of fast, aggressive strategies in my meta and am cutting one of my best answers to such a threat, and you are absolutely correct. I makes no sense at all! I revert back to the beginning where I talked about how ever cut I make is always going to be a good card that does good things for the deck. Still, I have to cut something in order to play the cards I truly want to play. I also believe, in my defense, that Knowledge Exploitation can functionally act as a more traditional board wipe if we need it to. Chances are someone in the game will have a Wrath of God, Damnation, or Akroma's Vengeance lying around in their library. The downside is it's a sorcery. The upside is it's almost exactly like Bribery and, just like Bribery, there are so many options and decisions to be made when you use this card.
That's pretty much the changes that I've made since I've been gone. I tried out a lot of cards but this is what I ended up going with for now. I think I may try out Thought Vessel and see how it is. It's a 2 CMC mana rock that doesn't enter tapped with a relevant secondary ability so its probably ok at least. Thanks for reading and have a great day
If you're playing Azami, the goal is to be as efficient as possible. One-drop Wizards are the way to go. Even Magus of the Future is too much. Really only Deadeye and Peregrine Drake/Palinchronon infinite mana combo is worth all that mana when you had things like Mind Over Matter to cast IMO. Get quick efficient advantage and win fast. You won't survive otherwise.
If you're playing Azami, the goal is to be as efficient as possible. One-drop Wizards are the way to go. Even Magus of the Future is too much. Really only Deadeye and Peregrine Drake/Palinchronon infinite mana combo is worth all that mana when you had things like Mind Over Matter to cast IMO. Get quick efficient advantage and win fast. You won't survive otherwise.
It is true that Azami can, and often does, receive a lot of hate towards her. I don't think that means the deck must be built a certain way every time though. I love how powerful she is, but I've leaned heavily over the years towards cards that give me options over those that are only there to combo off or find the combos. Things like Knowledge Exploitation make it in because I'm in love with decisions and all of the variables involved when making them. I'm also not up against turn 3 storm decks that often either I suppose. I feel who we play against and what they play has a very real impact on what is realistically doable in a given group of players. I am surrounded by a wide variety of decks and strategies where I play, but many of them are still things you would want to reasonably kill so I'm not always target numero uno on the hit list. I'm guessing your meta is extremely aggressive? Also, how do you feel about the new Galecaster Colossus? Probably too slow if you're going for the quick combo kill and not playing table police.
My list does rely a fair bit on the combo aspect and uses Azami to help either find them or to go off. Though having some budget constraints it tends to be a tad slower than the really fined tuned combo decks, running stuff like fast mana is just not much of an option for me right now. That said the list is meant to be less durdly than some of my other decks and it does that just fine.
Knowledge Exploitation seems like a fun card to run though, might give it a try in one of my other decks if I can scavenge up a copy.
As far as Galecaster Colossus goes, it's definitely an interesting card but to me it feels a bit expensive to cast and well I'd probably say for me the biggest downside is that it only bounces your opponent's stuff. That said, I'm not totally writing it off either. For example, with Paradox Engine it can become easily a repeatably usable Cyclonic Rift, especially if you have the option to flash it in.
My list does rely a fair bit on the combo aspect and uses Azami to help either find them or to go off. Though having some budget constraints it tends to be a tad slower than the really fined tuned combo decks, running stuff like fast mana is just not much of an option for me right now. That said the list is meant to be less durdly than some of my other decks and it does that just fine.
Knowledge Exploitation seems like a fun card to run though, might give it a try in one of my other decks if I can scavenge up a copy.
As far as Galecaster Colossus goes, it's definitely an interesting card but to me it feels a bit expensive to cast and well I'd probably say for me the biggest downside is that it only bounces your opponent's stuff. That said, I'm not totally writing it off either. For example, with Paradox Engine it can become easily a repeatably usable Cyclonic Rift, especially if you have the option to flash it in.
Since Teferi just barely swapped out the dream of flashing that giant in is probably dead to my deck at least for a little while. I swap around cards all the time in the list to try things out though. I only put up my changes on here when they become more concrete and I think its where I want it to be. I like to get a lot of games in to test them out before I decide whether or not they were actually a good idea.
Also, if Galecaster Colossus could bounce our own permanents then I wouldn't be able to shove it in my deck fast enough. Those are just the kind of broken shenanigans I want to play. It would have been too good though probably.
"Cast Snapcaster Mage, target one of the counterspells in my graveyard, counter your bomb, tap Mr. Chan, return him to my hand . . . do you pass turn?"
I'm viewing him as sort of a Snapcaster Mage on layaway. You get a looter now, and the flashback later
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
My best friend has an Alamo storm list that is annoyingly good and stupidly lucky. I haven't played against the particular version piloted by jack, but I can't imagine it's too different an the Alamo list which is in my sig. He evaluated the card and decided it wasn't quite good enough in his build since he wanted every spell he drew and is already land light as a list anyway.
Perhaps I'm a little biased and should have tested him objectively. My best friend and I had evaluated him and not seen as much interaction that wasn't already present in either of our decks. However, the new jace would be absolutely fantastic in my tasigur deck, since he directly helps with the game plan there so perhaps I've dismissed him too quickly.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I imagine Tasigur would like an early drop that both fills the yard and gives card selection. Seems like a match made in your opponents tears
The more games I see this card, the more solid he seems. No wonder he terrorizes Duel Commander tables. Being able to guarantee having access to him as early as you want seems brutal for anyone playing against it.
Again, I think a large amount of praise for this card hinges on the fact that he's also a wizard for Azami to make use of. So my results may be slightly biased.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
No Inspired Sprite?
Edit: you also might want to add more sorceries and instants if you want to support docent of perfection.
I am getting hooked on this guy, but I usually test my cards for a while so I have a clear idea of whether or not I like it in the deck. If I had to guess he's going to probably make it though.
I generally try to keep my wizards pretty cost efficient for what they do and Inspired Sprite being 4 mana just for drawing even more cards pushed her out of contention with some of the other creatures I wanted to run. Its the same reason I don't run wizards like Fallowsage either. They're good options, just didn't make the cut for this particular list.
So far I think the deck has a high enough density of relevant instants and sorceries to make Docent of Perfection worth it. Because the deck's primary goal is to draw a lot of cards I find that most of the time we have our pick of any number of spells to help trigger his ability. If our commander didn't happen to be focused on sifting through so much of our deck so quickly then I would be more inclined to increase the count. I might add some more if I find he isn't performing well enough and I really want to make him work, but I'd rather remove 1 card in the 99 than shape the whole 99 around that 1. Unless that 1 ends up becoming it's own commander of course
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Have a great day
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Inspired Sprite and Sapphire Medallion could just keep you drawing cards but it really does seem a lot of your instants are counter magic. You actually have a low density of spells other than counter magic.
You have enough wizards to flip docent, but not a ton of spells to where docent could win the game on his own.
For me all things require at least a little testing. Sometimes cards are just better or worse than they might appear at first and I like to give myself a grace period before formally changing my lists to accurately judge their merits. Just a little quirk of mine I guess.
I do love my counterspells and there are quite a bit of them in here, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. They're one of blue's strongest tools and help defend things like the Docent from interaction from my opponents. Every spell I stop becomes a wizard, which in turn draws me more cards, which in turn gives me more counter magic and a greater chance to find those power cards like Time Warp or High Tide. I don't really feel like he'll be an "I win" card for this list, but more of a snowball effect that quickly gets out of control when left alone to work with other parts of the deck.
I'm not really running him to flip and attack for lethal. I just like the idea of having a decent token generator that makes the draw engine of the deck grow increasingly larger like Stonybrook Schoolmaster could have done had it not been white. If he does flip and let me get a massive wizard attack then I will be very happy though
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Sage of Epityr
IN
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Hello Everyone! Sorry I haven't been around on the site or my threads as often. I just recently started a new job and am currently working around 55+ hours a week so things are a little hectic as I work around my new schedule. That doesn't mean that I've stopped playing Magic though, and I have certainly been testing out new iterations of this list deck during my absence. Before we talk about the actual change to the deck I wanted to say that I also, like Elminster and others, am trying to find the right spot for Docent of Perfection. Against more "fair" strategies he's been a lot of fun, but when matched up against the absurd value of things like Maelstrom Wanderer or Titania, Protector of Argoth things get a little dicey because of how slow he can feel against those decks. I'm still trying to figure out how far I'm willing to go to make him a better fit for the deck. Time will tell
The newest change isn't too much of a surprise for those that read some of the comments on this thread, but it still is a change so I'm going to log it. I never really had the opportunity to test out Jace, Vryn's Prodigy until the last couple of months what with his price becoming absurd for a while (especially for a card I was only thinking of adding to the deck). I'm all aboard the hype train now though and can say with confidence that he's an extraordinarily good card. He does everything Sage of Epityr did but better. He comes out early and digs through the top of our deck. He provides another wizard body for Azami to make use of when she hits the field. And on top of all of that he provides another Snapcaster effect when you can/want to flip him, gifting us yet another way to abuse things like Time Warp, Bribery, or Rite of Replication. He's been a big success in almost every game I've played with the deck since adding him and I don't believe he'll be leaving anytime soon.
I was lucky enough just this week, because of all of the hours I've been working, to pick up a foil Jace for the deck. That should show how serious I am about how good this crazy little 0/2 really is. I hope you all have been having an wonderful time in the month I've been away. I will be trying to schedule my free time a little better so that I can stay relatively active on the site, but it's a work in progress. Look for the 'Conspiracy 2 Set Review' sometime within the next week or so. Until next time guys - Have a great day!
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Since I have been gone for so long I'm going to be doing a lot of set reviews all at once. Here we go!
Conspiracy 2 (11/24/2016)
Expropriate - I'm a big fan of extra turn effects so this card just speaks to me. What it tells me to do is pay 9 CMC for one extra turn and a Blatant Thievery, but that's still pretty sweet in my book. For my personal play group I feel it would be a tad too slow. Maybe in a more casual, grindy meta that allows you to durdle into the late game more often. I'll still test this one just because it looks like fun to resolve.
Stunt Double - Strictly better Clone! Just taking a look at my list you should be able to tell I'm a sucker for copying/"borrowing" my opponent's permanents. This clone has flash which plays perfectly into our best defense that is to simply hold up mana for counter magic and wait for something scary to happen. Might try him out instead of Rite of Replication for a little bit to see if flash is better than sometimes winning the game with kicker. We will find out.
Kaladesh (11/24/2016)
Dramatic Reversal - Kind of a less powerful Turnabout. Costs less, but can't do our broken or infinite shenanigans with lands. Could be interesting as a strange draw spell with a bunch of wizards in play, but more than likely its just a "win more" card. Still thought I'd throw the idea out there.
Insidious Will - Cryptic Command is that you? No, no its not. That being said this card does do a lot of my favorite things about blue and gives the power of choice which should never be underestimated. I'll test it in place of Twincast and see if the extra mana to cast it is worth it or if it just sits dead in my hand forever
Paradoxical Outcome - Super cool toy. Not as good in our deck as some others, but could still help dodge some board wipes while getting more value from our ETB effecs and drawing us cards on top of it. This is a spicy one and I'd be interested to see who's been trying it out in any deck since its release.
Saheeli's Artistry - A Clone and/or a Sculpting Steel with, again, options to choose from. The 6 CMC makes me sad, but not all of Blue's toys get to be broken. Solid value for a powerful ability in Commander. I've already seen it a few times recently (I'm looking at you Breya!).
Torrential Gearhulk - Its no Diluvian Primordial but not a lot of things can be really. Still the one less CMC and the addition of flash makes it tempting to at least test him a little. Could make a fun combat trick. This particular wizard deck doesn't usually drop 5/6's out of nowhere so I might be able to catch a few people until they catch on.
Commander 2016 (11/24/2016)
Coastal Breach - Blue doesn't get too many board wipes that make themselves worth including. The new 'Undaunted' mechanic means this one might be worth the time to find out if it is good enough. A normal 4 player game means it only costs 4 CMC which seems like pretty good value to me. Sorcery speed brings it down a notch for me. However, thats probably just because I've been spoiled by Cyclonic Rift for too long now.
Faerie Artisans - This card is super strange to me, and I think with the density of ETB creatures that populate Commander it could be incredibly powerful. I wonder how much of a "kill on sight" creature this one will be in the future with things like the new Gearhulks being printed. It's value can only go up as more sets are printed. If only it was a wizard!
Manifold Insights - So I heard you guys like Fact or Fiction. Seriously though I think this card, while suffering from the age old problem of letting our opponents choose, is insane value. It also, like good old FoF, opens the doors for some political choices. Maybe certain players give you good spells hoping you'll deal with someone else. Maybe you're given something like a Time Warp just to make you the threat so people try and kill you. I like a card that works on multiple angles within the game and this one does it pretty well by letting every player get involved in the effect.
Welp that's all of the new cards I've been taking a look at lately, and I'll be sure to update the thread should any concrete changes occur to the list. As always I hope you guys are all having a great day and/or holiday break if you're lucky enough to have the time to enjoy it haha. Feel free to leave any questions or comments you have and I'll get back to them as soon as possible. Take care
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Sorry for resurrecting what might be a finished thread, but thanks so much for this Primer. I was wondering, as someone who has never played blue before (other than in 5-color super friends), could you give some tips on what we should be looking out for to counter with this deck? Since i've never played control, I'm worried i'll counter the wrong stuff wasting cards, or not counter stuff and regret it.
From your primer I'm thinking the key is mostly protecting Azami and combo pieces. So when someone tries to counter our casting, or hit it with a removal some other time..... I assume massive board wipes would also be good to counter if we have a pretty filled out board state?
So, anything else specifically to look out for while playing this deck?
Thanks so much!
I'm free anytime to discuss Azami and her strategies now. I know I am very late getting back into this thread, but if you're still around and want to talk I'll be here now
Look for updates and revisions soon. As well as the Commander 2017 set review. I'm super excited to try out some new toys.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
We have a couple of possible nice toys.
Galecaster Colossus: My opinion on this guy changes every day. One day I find him too expensive and clunky, the other day it seems like one of the best Wizards for my Azami-deck ever.
Magus of the Mind: Another expensive Wizard in the deck. It has a great potential but I play too many counter spells for it.
Kindred Discovery: great card-advantage and allows me to attack with Wizards while still drawing cards. But do we want that?
Portal Mage: My personal favourite from the entire set. This is so much fun.
Path of Ancestry should definitely be included. A free scry 1 nearly every turn seems too good to be true.
For myself, I'm looking to at least include Path of Ancestry and am still considering Kindred Discovery. Discovery forms an interesting additional draw engine for when Azami gets removed too often, but the CMC is keeping me in doubt about the card.
If you're running a control build of Azami, it seems good enough to play especially since removal is weak in mono-blue. I can see it being very annoying with Paradox Engine.
Since it doesn't allow you to bounce you're own permanents, it's unplayable in a strictly combo version.
Obviously it will change depending on how you want the deck to play out, but I don't think ill be including Magus of the Mind or Kindred Discovery in my particular build. With the magus, usually when I'm casting 3+ spells in a given turn I tend to be winning the game and I also run a fair amount of permission in the deck. The enchantment is a better card in my opinion, but way better with a wizard commander other than Azami where the greatest strength of our deck is the fact that we draw so many cards. I may still test it, but I think it may be a bit redundant. I could definitely be wrong though.
Portal Mage seems more my style if I feel like adding more anti-aggro cards to the list. This might be a meta call. Blue gets so many fun toys that the cuts are getting harder and harder to make. This one will get testing for sure.
Galecaster Colossus would have been the most absurd card ever if we could bounce our own non-land permanents. Thank god they didn't release that upon the Commander world. He seems strong though, especially in a slower meta where people just want to populate a board and then alpha strike in the mid to late game. He's probably too slow for the way my group has been running for the last half a year. I'm also up in the air about this one.
Path of Ancestry makes me sad for entering the battlefield tapped, but free scry triggers are free scry triggers. Should see inclusions in quite a few tribal decks. I still hate slow lands with this deck though. UGGGGGGHHH!
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Yeah, I still might try out Kindred Discovery because I believe you never know how good/bad a card is without playing it, but my hopes aren't high. Drawing cards is kind of our decks thing already and I think slots that this fits into are better used on powerful effects like Treachery or Time Warp for the same CMC.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Agreed. He seems absurd in play with Azami and a couple more wizards. Patron Wizard as well if you feel like being a jerk about it
My list leans much more towards control then it does combo, but the main theme thats been growing is clones and "Use your stuff" effects. He still seems just a little slow though. 7 mana is a lot. In terms of mana investment it would be right up there with something like Palinchron and he just wins the game when we tap that much to cast him usually. I'll test him though, and I always hope to be pleasantly surprised.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
I think for my list the best non-combo win condition I have anymore is just a well timed Rite of Replication on something like an Inferno Titan. It happens enough that I don't always have to combo. Bribery works in a similar fashion when done early also. Wanting to not always be accelerating towards a combo and ruining a lot of games for my friends is one of the reason's the clone and theft effect theme became so pronounced in the deck. It gives you options throughout the game and lets you have outs when you either can't or don't want to combo off again.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Wayfarer's Bauble
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Daring Apprentice
Evacuation
IN
Chrome Mox
Mox Diamond
Baral, Chief of Compliance
Knowledge Exploitation
I want to start off this round of changes by saying that I think I've reached the point in this deck where I have too many favorite cards to choose from. Every round of changes means that cards I love playing with, and that are usually also very powerful, are getting cut somewhere in the list. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is the main casualty this time around. He is absurdly powerful, and works very well with the general wants of the deck. However, I have noticed lately that I have never "needed" him to win. He solidified my victory like he does for a lot of other combo strategies, but never did I think it was vital that he be in play before I started my shenanigans. He has become sort of win more as crazy as it is to say. He also competes with other 5 drops in the deck and, even though he has flash, always appears to be my last choice of things to cast in a given turn. This may be partly because of how my meta is shifting to very fast paced tactics both combo and aggro oriented. So it looks like it's time to start turning up the dials a little bit on Azami and adding a couple cards back in that haven't been in here since before I made this thread - Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond. Wayfarer's Bauble also gets the axe to make room for the more risky, but much faster mana accelerators. I still don't want to necessarily win more quickly, but I want the chance to get out of the gates and set up for the game before I'm overrun by decks like Karlov and Saskia.
Daring Apprentice served it's purpose well as a 'layaway' counterspell for protecting Azami, but I've come to prefer the medallion like effect of Baral. He blocks very well as a 1/3 body early in the game, reduces the cost of many cards in our deck, and lets us loot when we use our large amount of permission spells. He's very strong and I cut what I perceived as the weakest link among my wizards to make room for him.
Finally we get to Evacuation. I know it seems counterintuitive that I both talked about the rise of fast, aggressive strategies in my meta and am cutting one of my best answers to such a threat, and you are absolutely correct. I makes no sense at all! I revert back to the beginning where I talked about how ever cut I make is always going to be a good card that does good things for the deck. Still, I have to cut something in order to play the cards I truly want to play. I also believe, in my defense, that Knowledge Exploitation can functionally act as a more traditional board wipe if we need it to. Chances are someone in the game will have a Wrath of God, Damnation, or Akroma's Vengeance lying around in their library. The downside is it's a sorcery. The upside is it's almost exactly like Bribery and, just like Bribery, there are so many options and decisions to be made when you use this card.
That's pretty much the changes that I've made since I've been gone. I tried out a lot of cards but this is what I ended up going with for now. I think I may try out Thought Vessel and see how it is. It's a 2 CMC mana rock that doesn't enter tapped with a relevant secondary ability so its probably ok at least. Thanks for reading and have a great day
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
It is true that Azami can, and often does, receive a lot of hate towards her. I don't think that means the deck must be built a certain way every time though. I love how powerful she is, but I've leaned heavily over the years towards cards that give me options over those that are only there to combo off or find the combos. Things like Knowledge Exploitation make it in because I'm in love with decisions and all of the variables involved when making them. I'm also not up against turn 3 storm decks that often either I suppose. I feel who we play against and what they play has a very real impact on what is realistically doable in a given group of players. I am surrounded by a wide variety of decks and strategies where I play, but many of them are still things you would want to reasonably kill so I'm not always target numero uno on the hit list. I'm guessing your meta is extremely aggressive? Also, how do you feel about the new Galecaster Colossus? Probably too slow if you're going for the quick combo kill and not playing table police.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Knowledge Exploitation seems like a fun card to run though, might give it a try in one of my other decks if I can scavenge up a copy.
As far as Galecaster Colossus goes, it's definitely an interesting card but to me it feels a bit expensive to cast and well I'd probably say for me the biggest downside is that it only bounces your opponent's stuff. That said, I'm not totally writing it off either. For example, with Paradox Engine it can become easily a repeatably usable Cyclonic Rift, especially if you have the option to flash it in.
Since Teferi just barely swapped out the dream of flashing that giant in is probably dead to my deck at least for a little while. I swap around cards all the time in the list to try things out though. I only put up my changes on here when they become more concrete and I think its where I want it to be. I like to get a lot of games in to test them out before I decide whether or not they were actually a good idea.
Also, if Galecaster Colossus could bounce our own permanents then I wouldn't be able to shove it in my deck fast enough. Those are just the kind of broken shenanigans I want to play. It would have been too good though probably.
"Cast Snapcaster Mage, target one of the counterspells in my graveyard, counter your bomb, tap Mr. Chan, return him to my hand . . . do you pass turn?"
Archaeomancer and Vendilion Clique produce equally crazy scenarios. That would have been quite the 7 drop.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG