MTG Salvation

Quote from Egbert82 »

Karn seems a very nice addition.. too bad his -2 doesnt work in commander (yet) that would be a turn one clock

Quote from OP_Sigma »

There's a new rule in edh, wish effects don't work anymore.

1. That's not really a new rule, they're just clarifying a couple different things due to Karn's printing.
2. Karn's -2 can still retrieve an exiled artifact card, so it's not like his -2 does nothing in EDH.

They destroyed wishboards? Jeez.

Wishboards were already not officially supported. All they did was reword the rule that says they're not a thing to make it clearer. And they also added Rule 0 that says "these are the official rules, but house rules are of course fine as long as everybody is aware and agrees before the game begins". Here's the actual update.

Quote from lyonhaert »

Wishboards were already not officially supported. All they did was reword the rule that says they're not a thing to make it clearer. And they also added Rule 0 that says "these are the official rules, but house rules are of course fine as long as everybody is aware and agrees before the game begins". Here's the actual update.

Yeah but they weren't actively banned in the previous wording.

I hope bob is in modern horizon..

What changes would you make if you'd play one on one? Hate cards like dystopia and mana denial like contamination? Or go the discard route? I find Mindslicer is always fun with disciple of bolas or diabolic intent..wouldnt mind some hymns too

Quote from Egbert82 »

I hope bob is in modern horizon..

What changes would you make if you'd play one on one? Hate cards like dystopia and mana denial like contamination? Or go the discard route? I find Mindslicer is always fun with disciple of bolas or diabolic intent..wouldnt mind some hymns too

Discard route plus narrow out some of the personal choices and worry less about stuff like Iona. Different mana accel would also be relevant if it was a reasonable ban list for 1-on-1. (cEDH is a flawed format.)

Other cards were considered, but usually ruled out much quicker.

Modern Horizons Review

Force of Despair - A free destroy spell/wrath of this sort is at least worth consideration.

Mox Tantalite - I don't like it enough to run it, but it is a cool card.

Prismatic Vista - Already running all the fetches that I can, why not another?

Core Set 2020 Review:

Legion's End - Not quite versatile enough.

Scheming Symmetry - Super tempting, but it's just not quite good enough. A good opponent always grabs removal.

Lotus Field - Now this I like. Without Hexproof, I'd drop this like hot garbage, but with it, this is quite the card. I can't believe I'm saying this, but this might even replace Lake of the Dead in the long term.

%%%

-Liliana, Heretical Healer
+Imperial Seal

Well, that one should be obvious enough. The seal is amazing, this Liliana is pretty bad.

I'm surprised to see no mention of Ransack the Lab. Just comparing it to nights whisper convinced me to at least give it a shot. It digs deeper at the cost of giving you one less card BUT it fills your graveyard with other cards that you can then access earlier than you would otherwise with Xiahou. Also, it's not technically "Draw" which gets around Chains in a slower build.

Also, Vilis, Broker of Blood is going to find a home in my build as my 1 reanimation target. The deck already runs Entomb and Reanimate so having a good target is worth it and this one draws you 8 cards straight away when you Reanimate him.

Here is my list for reference: https://archidekt.com/decks/53194#Xiahou_Dun,_The_One-Eyed

Quote from BigBooy »

I'm surprised to see no mention of Ransack the Lab. Just comparing it to nights whisper convinced me to at least give it a shot. It digs deeper at the cost of giving you one less card BUT it fills your graveyard with other cards that you can then access earlier than you would otherwise with Xiahou. Also, it's not technically "Draw" which gets around Chains in a slower build.

Also, Vilis, Broker of Blood is going to find a home in my build as my 1 reanimation target. The deck already runs Entomb and Reanimate so having a good target is worth it and this one draws you 8 cards straight away when you Reanimate him.

Here is my list for reference: https://archidekt.com/decks/53194#Xiahou_Dun,_The_One-Eyed

Ransack the Lab is decent. I wouldn't call it like Night's Whisper, because 1 card for 2 mana really isn't the same, even if the others do go in your graveyard. But it is decent.

Vilis, Broker of Blood is a solid reanimation choice. I like a lot of your card choices. I still kinda sneer at sadbot every time I see it though.

Regarding Ransack vs Whisper:
Eh, it depends on what you want to do with it, if you're primarily a combo deck then digging deeper is a big advantage. If you're playing the long game then you want the draw. Note that I haven't removed, nights whisper, I found another cut for Ransack (I think it was Ugin, the Ineffable). Two mana draw is a great early recursion target for Xiahou and it or a tutor is always something I look for in opening hands. Ransack is another great option.

I think you're actually right about sad bot, obviously it being recurrable land ramp is potent, BUT it is very slow. I think I remember entombing it to Reanimate it one game but that's the last time I remember actively searching it up. I think he'll be the cut for Vilis.

So the banlist update is the best thing to happen to the banlist in the past decade.

Tawnos's Coffin -> Painter's Servant (As soon as it ships.)

By itself does Painter's Servant enable any combo's in this deck? I get that it lets you recur your artifacts and lands but we already have Yawgmoth's Will/Buried Ruin for that (I don't know if the primer list is up to date but you've even got Shrouded Lore in there). Additionally, those cards are usually the ones you would want to recur the least, unless I need a combo piece back (why not just go for a different combo?) I usually want to recur tutors and draw spells the most.


Not saying it's not worth a slot, just trying to think about where it fits in the deck.

Edit: It's probably also worth considering that if you name black to improve Xiahou value then you blank your Snuff Out and Slaughter Pact.

I mostly agree with BigBooy here. It's a cool application of the card but probably not worth it?

Quote from BigBooy »

By itself does Painter's Servant enable any combo's in this deck? I get that it lets you recur your artifacts and lands but we already have Yawgmoth's Will/Buried Ruin for that (I don't know if the primer list is up to date but you've even got Shrouded Lore in there). Additionally, those cards are usually the ones you would want to recur the least, unless I need a combo piece back (why not just go for a different combo?) I usually want to recur tutors and draw spells the most.


Not saying it's not worth a slot, just trying to think about where it fits in the deck.

Edit: It's probably also worth considering that if you name black to improve Xiahou value then you blank your Snuff Out and Slaughter Pact.

I think the combo value is also worth considering, though you do have a point about the nombo. Usually wouldn't be dropping Painter's turn 1, though anyways, I think.

- Tawnos's Coffin
- Hero's Downfall
- Succumb to Temptation
- Shrouded Lore
- Reassembling Skeleton
- Swamp

The Coffin is no longer nearly as relevant with Iona gone. Hero's Downfall slots out easily with the gain of The Elderspell and Force of Despair. Mausoleum Secrets is a better choice than Succumb to Temptation usually. And the Grindstone + Painter's Servant combo works out better for the deck, though Painter's Servant has its own ups and downs. Works very well with several cards, but nombos with a few of the destroy spells. I had mixed feelings on Shrouded Lore. Reassembling Skeleton and Hero's Downfall may find a place again some other time.

+ Force of Despair
+ Mausoleum Secrets
+ The Elderspell
+ Grindstone
+ Painter's Servant
+ Prismatic Vista

Those changes look pretty good. Hero's Downfall and Succumb to Temptation are still in the decklist FYI.

Took some back and forth work, but the decklist is up to date both here and on tappedout.

Throne of Eldraine Review:

Ayara, First of Locthwain - It's begging to be good enough. It really wants to be. And it's so close. If I had any of the 4-mana variants of this effect, I'd cut them for this in a heartbeat. As is, meh.

The Cauldron of Eternity - Oof. It has a nice effect, but it's so limited in actual functionality. Pass.

Epic Downfall - This is honestly a close consideration. I think it's meta-dependent.

Rankle, Master of Pranks - A cool card for its own deck. Not as great here.

Ser Konrad, the Grim - If it was on a smaller body, it could cost less. If it cost less, it would be a consideration. As is, it's rather underwhelming.

Wishclaw Talisman - I mean, I'd have to be running a way to sacrifice it. And Homeward Path. And then I still would feel bad running it. It's okay, I guess.

Castle Locthwain - Wow, that drawback is awful. Could be worse, but unlikely to even test this; Sea Gate Wreckage is unfortunately comparable in the optimal usage.

Witch's Cottage - A possible consideration. I think it's not the worst idea, but I'm not sure what I'd replace with it. I may come back to this if I decide that it's worth it.

Arcane Signet - A good card that I might just run. It's a bit plain, but not the end of the world. I'm thinking it slightly gets edged out in the bigger picture, but it's worth consideration.

Tome of Legends - I like this card a lot and want to run it... I may at least test it if I find myself playing the deck any time soon.

I realized that I never did a review of Commander 2019...

Commander 2019:

K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth - I wish this was actually a bomb and not just a huge mana and life investment.

Mire in Misery - I hate the design of this card, so I'd love to just pass it by, but it is worth consideration. It's not worth it enough, but some decks can make use of it.

Theros Beyond Death:

Nightmare Shepherd - If this cost 1-2 less mana, I'd consider it for the combo potential with Painter's Servant and Command Beacon.

Nyx Lotus - The first noncreature card with Lotus in its name that is objectively worth less than eating the cardboard on which it is printed for nourishment.

Xiahou Dun Ikoria Review:

I don't like this set very much.

Call of the Death-Dweller - This might be worth it. It's a card I'm likely to consider again, too. I don't like the limitation, which is preventing me from instantly deciding to test it, but it's an interesting concept.

Extinction Event - This card feels worse than current wrath options. Better than most of the options I'm not playing, though.

Heartless Act - Worth considering for decks that are short on cheap removal.

Bonders' Enclave - At 3 mana, the cost of the ability is painful. I think I'm going to ponder long and hard about this one because I'm not convinced that it's actually awful.

The commander replacement effect become an SBA doesn't affect this deck much if at all. In a few instances, XHD might get a tiny bit better.

Commander 2020 Review

Deadly Rollick - This seems solid. Worth testing, at least.

Core 2021 Review

Liliana's Standard Bearer - I feel like this is a good way to deck myself, but I do like the card a lot. I might test this out later.

Liliana, Waker of the Dead - Another day, another disappointment.

Necromentia - WHY CAN'T IT TARGET EACH OPPONENT? I JUST WANT MY Turn 1 DARK RITUAL INTO EXILING ALL OF THE SOL RINGS!

Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose - If you're running this sort of a combo package, this card is great.

Mazemind Tome - Meh.

Zendikar Rising Review:

Feed the Swarm - Worth Consideration as low-cost enchantment removal in black.

Commander Legends Review:

Demonic Lore - Worth consideration. I think it's marginally not good enough, but it's interesting, at the very least.

Opposition Agent - Yes, please. I love control cards like this.

Jeweled Lotus - This card is a dumb auto-include as a second copy of Dark Ritual. I hate the term auto-include, but unfortunately, it is what it is.

i think you mite want to reconsider ur zendikar rising review, it gave you an out to a resolved rest in peace or leyline of the void, in feed the swarm + it also doubles as creature removal if you needed it. also you mite consider agadeem, the undercrypt, its a land if you need it to be & a spell for late game shenanigans.

also, not sure how up to date the list is on page 1 of the thread, but wouldnt hero's downfall be better than dismember? you've already got a few -x/-x effects w/ mutilate & toxic deluge & being able to hit planeswalkers is nice. besides, how often are you really needing to kill a creature in the 1st cpl of turns before you actually have the mana to cast dismember w/o losing life & @ that pt, you could just spend the 3 mana & cast hero's downfall.

Quote from d0rsal »

i think you mite want to reconsider ur zendikar rising review, it gave you an out to a resolved rest in peace or leyline of the void, in feed the swarm + it also doubles as creature removal if you needed it. also you mite consider agadeem, the undercrypt, its a land if you need it to be & a spell for late game shenanigans.

also, not sure how up to date the list is on page 1 of the thread, but wouldnt hero's downfall be better than dismember? you've already got a few -x/-x effects w/ mutilate & toxic deluge & being able to hit planeswalkers is nice. besides, how often are you really needing to kill a creature in the 1st cpl of turns before you actually have the mana to cast dismember w/o losing life & @ that pt, you could just spend the 3 mana & cast hero's downfall.

Feed the Swarm is not a bad idea, actually. I'd at least consider it. Agadeem's Awakening is pretty bad, otherwise I would consider it a bit more.

I've sometimes run Hero's Downfall, but one of my main focuses is keeping the mana curve tight, so Dismember works out a bit better as spot removal. I'm much less worried about the life, so Dismember is usually effectively just 1 mana for "Destroy target creature." That said, Hero's Downfall might replace The Elderspell again if I have yet to sub that out since I'm no longer playing against a planeswalker deck a lot of the time.

glad i could @ least pt you in the direction of feed the swarm =) black has waited a long time for a playable enchantment removal spell. i agree w/ you that agadeem's awakening isnt a great card, thus it would normally be a land, but on the off chance that you ever needed some gas... & black's no slouch in creating mana.... just saying... thx for the response, hope you had a merry xmas & have a happy new year!