Well the whole drawing hate thing is sort of a mute point when you'll be doing evil things as soon as possible. This deck wasn't meant to be political, just screw over the entire table as early and quickly as possible. Kismet pretty much does the same thing as her but no body to attack/protect with so I guess it's more subtle?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I meant drawing removal when I meant hate. Sometimes having a sacrificial lamb to get people more annoyed at that rather than the actual threatening creature is beneficial.
It's usually a race against the entire table's hate with this deck lol.
I agree with that. Thalia can eat the removal that Linvala, Norn, or Titania would normally and we can go off right after since we're slowing people down. I think thalia may be a better option since she can be pattern, ghave, or sun titan syneregy when needed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I know that land destruction is very ingrained in your deck - However I believe that enchantment builds utilising Ghave and these colours could maybe move away from land destruction for other removal/control.
If you were to move away from the and destruction, what would you replace those cards with?
Problem with that is our deck is focused on not letting other's getting to play. That's probably the best route to winning.
If you wanted to avoid that probably adding Karmic Justice, Rule of law, contamination, bitterblossom, and those effects would be ok
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Turned out that the format wasn't going to be multiple rounds of pods, with points being the deciding factor on final placement, like every other multiplayer tournament I've ever been to. It was a 2 round, winner of each round 1 pod moves on to round 2 for prize support. So anyone with a bad opening hand got the short end of the stick.
Had to mulligan down to 5, got stuck on no lands/mana sources. Sat there doing nothing for my game. Waste of my time and money.
I did play a few pickup games after, the deck did phenomenally.
That's a bummer but sometimes it happens.
I also recently went to a tourney where my other deck dominated...except the one game where the two lands I drew after the opener were colorless. Just happens sometimes.
It's also real dumb to do a 2 round thing where people who are unlucky are screwed over.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Did Saffi get the boot? I haven't played the deck in a while and I just got one in the mail, and with the chaos of finals I honestly don't remember if it was for this deck or not. I'm readjusting to your list, I picked up my last duals recently and a few other pieces/ neat alt art foils so I think I'm just gonna run as close to your list as possible. I also want to test Kaya, Ghost Assassin. I've changed Queen Marchesa over to partial stax and the games where that became the forefront she just closed games or was such great mid-range power. She can flick a few useful things to dodge a wipe and honestly imo one the best walkers out post land wipe. I know she doesn't have much of a chance here, but what she did would go really well here. I'll have a dead slot reguardless so I'll probably float around cards you test.
Hello, I went through a lot of your write up and deck evolution and the deck is very intriguing. I have a weird question though. Can you imagine this concept working also in Duel Commander? A lot of the cards are banned there, especially some important lands and also several acceleration artefacts. On the other hand several of the super good commanders are banned there as well, so maybe there is a bit more time in the meta to set up this deck's wincons?
With 20 life now a thing it makes it much harder for the deck to be relevant since we work around abusing Necro.
Replacing early rocks with more dorks is fairly ok since a lot of spells are around 2/3 mana so a turn one dork plus turn 2 vindicate effect gets you far ahead. Just getting that more reliably is the issue
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
My 2 cents is just trying to put in the most efficient cards taht can trade/2 for one the format for cards that're banned. If aggro is what comes to mind with "if" the deck can handle it (please dont take this as elitist, im running of what you said, assuming its the main issue) I'd advise a few slots for that main deck and a good portion of sideboard. As someone who's played blue control since he understood the concept, I can easily say this is the controlliest non-blue deck I've ever played. It's also the only deck I've played that puts enough game ending threats on the table that actually pushes through 3-4 personally targeted counterspells to still win the game. I certainly don't have the grasp Doom does, but I've been watching since honestly day one. You can blow out pods that don't know the deck with very uncommon combos, and anyone taht knows the deck feels instant threat as soon as you resolve nearly anything =<4, which at first sounds bad but dictating how the game is played is awesome with the card advantage the deck can generate. Having your game ender countered just means they probably can't protect their next win-con from whatever instant speed response you can have, from Narset to Ezuri.
Thanks for the fast answer! Without trying to be obnoxious though, is that a "yes", "no" or "dunno, but worth testing" answer :)? Could the deck have trouble stabilizing before being overrun by Vial Smasher or Zurgo-type aggrodecks?
Personally I don't have much of an idea. I don't play any french let alone against Vial Smasher or Zurgo but I assume that dropping something like humility early will let you win pretty easy afterwards. My concern with 20 life makes a lot of our best spells much much worse so it's fairly risky.
I guess my answer is I don't know but it's worth testing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Thoughts on Stoneforger recently? I've had an easier time controlling my life so Batterskull hasn't been as useful (not saying it wasn't useful) and I think having a tutor for skullclamp isn't as hot as it was without any token producers besides Ghave. I still think sklamps insane but a tutor for essentially just that is becoming odd, especially since we can get draw plenty of other places
Thoughts on Stoneforger recently? I've had an easier time controlling my life so Batterskull hasn't been as useful (not saying it wasn't useful) and I think having a tutor for skullclamp isn't as hot as it was without any token producers besides Ghave. I still think sklamps insane but a tutor for essentially just that is becoming odd, especially since we can get draw plenty of other places
I cut mystic a while ago.
Mostly because I often try and get clamps via whatever I can and if I draw clamps/skull before mystic she was fairly useless.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
So the last cards are in the mail on their way to me, so I thought I'll ask for your opinion on some possible replacements for Duel-banned cards.
I need to replace the following:
Mana crypt
Sol ring
Sensei's divining top
Mana vault
Humility
Vampiric Tutor
Strip mine
Ancient tomb
Gaea's Cradle
The tabernacle at pendrell vale
I guess I could downgrade Strip Mine to Tectonic Edge, but there are obviously no replacements for Ancient Tomb and Cradle. A poorman's one-time Ancient Tomb is Crystal Vein, dunno if it's worth it. Again, there is nothing like the Tabernacle, but one land I like and could be at least cute in this deck is Westvale Abbey. Since the Duel deck looses a lot of acceleration, one more mana producing land might not be that bad. What about Nykthos? Could that be a poorman's Cradle?
As you said, I'll replace the good mana rocks with other rocks or dorks. Instead of Vampiric Tutor I can play Grim Tutor, which leaves just Humility open, which I guess is a problem, since so many combos in the deck work with the card. Here I would really need some inspiration.
Finally, I would be very grateful for a few suggestions of cards that you played and cut in the past, since with some deckslots open, they might just be the next best thing. I might also replace Carpet of Flowers, since that seems to be mainly a meta card.
Some suggestions for mana rocks are Chrome mox, mox diamond, grim monolith, and mox opal would be decent subs
Better lands would be adding things like the remaining fetch lands and horizon canopy
The other cuts could get you something to gain life so you don't die to necro effects.
I always wanted to include effects like land equilibrium and mana vortex into a powerful stax deck. Do you as an expert think a similar deck like yours could benefit from those additions? Is Atraxa worth the trouble, or is 4c stax (especially the mana denial theme) not working as well as i would like it to?
I wrote up a draft of Atraxa stax and didn't care for it. The general was ok but Ghave being a sac outlet seems far better.
I think Breya stax could be what you're looking for. I'm finishing up that deck soon and so far I really like it.
The deck has Land Equilibrium but works super well off uba mask and Zur's Weirding.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I've considered growth effects but often those lands are killed before the turn starts. We play with a lot of targeted ld so I'm thinking more I get 2 for 1 if that happens
I like the idea of finks in here actually. Real easy to keep him alive forever.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Also could be worth a slot. Give it a whirl and let us know how it's done
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I always wanted to include effects like land equilibrium and mana vortex into a powerful stax deck. Do you as an expert think a similar deck like yours could benefit from those additions? Is Atraxa worth the trouble, or is 4c stax (especially the mana denial theme) not working as well as i would like it to?
Atraxa is a very different deck than what this Ghave is doing. In order to make the blue worth the addition, the changes bring the deck away from the Living Plane and MLD focus. That's on top of the issue of losing Ghave from the Command Zone removes a consistent sac outlet and token generator to work with things like Skullclamp, Rector, Smokestack, etc. Atraxa Stax lends herself more towards mixing tapping effects like Tangle Wire and counter based cards like Parallax Tide with the destruction and sacrifice.
In terms of the ongoing problem of mass enchantment/artifact removal, especially now with Breya decks being a bit more rampant, I've been toying around with Seeds of Innocence to some pretty good effect. It sucks losing my own artifacts, but usually the majority of the hurt is on my opponents.
I'm also in agreement with Kitchen Finks being tested. I don't run Trading Post, and I'm occasionally needing some quick life gain. Finks would fill that.
I'll test out Mirri's Guile as well to see how it runs in the enchantment heavier build. Another card similar to that which I've seen is Abundance, and I've had that on my list to test; the only issue is the 4 cmc, but I've seen it be good for filtering land draws when they are and aren't needed.
What do you guys think?
One sided artifact wrath but it's often gonna be temporary.
You can have the golden situation where it's a creature and you sac it in response to an exile trigger so all the rocks are gone forever. I think that's how it works anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I think it needs to be worded like fiend slayer and that angel where theres the exile trigger and then the trigger for the return clause, or w/e they call it in the game. I'm pretty sure thats the requirement at least, there's that little minion that duress/thoughtsiezes you can do it too and I know he's same as fiend hunter
Yeah, this card isn't like the Parallaxes and O Ring where the return effect is a separate trigger, but part of the original trigger like Banishing Light. That along with the 5 cmc, I don't think this is a fit for the deck.
After 8 or so games with Mirri's Guile hitting the board, often early or turn 1, I found it pretty underwhelming. Especially when Top and Library are in the deck. It works as a budget replacement for either, but it really wasn't worth having on the field most of the time once one of the other two dropped.
Kitchen Finks has been pretty good for me, but that's also due to my list running Phyrexian Altar already.
Well bummer, I'll likely try it out and not keep it in the future.
Glad Finks has been working ok, I'm wanting to test it out soon
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Edit err. Nm ignore me. I read artifact or enchantment in some sort of fever dream on the newly previewed srams draw instead of aura or equipment.
Looks like I get the last laugh here...
But yeah that would have been amazing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Gotta skip right down to Nissa, cause I was thinking about her as well. However, only because I pulled one in a random booster I was given. Her abilities are awesome but, without 6 cmc Elspeth I figured walkers were out. What about it in Seleva is good? I'm still yet to try that...
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
It's usually a race against the entire table's hate with this deck lol.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Problem with that is our deck is focused on not letting other's getting to play. That's probably the best route to winning.
If you wanted to avoid that probably adding Karmic Justice, Rule of law, contamination, bitterblossom, and those effects would be ok
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Turned out that the format wasn't going to be multiple rounds of pods, with points being the deciding factor on final placement, like every other multiplayer tournament I've ever been to. It was a 2 round, winner of each round 1 pod moves on to round 2 for prize support. So anyone with a bad opening hand got the short end of the stick.
Had to mulligan down to 5, got stuck on no lands/mana sources. Sat there doing nothing for my game. Waste of my time and money.
I did play a few pickup games after, the deck did phenomenally.
I also recently went to a tourney where my other deck dominated...except the one game where the two lands I drew after the opener were colorless. Just happens sometimes.
It's also real dumb to do a 2 round thing where people who are unlucky are screwed over.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
With 20 life now a thing it makes it much harder for the deck to be relevant since we work around abusing Necro.
Replacing early rocks with more dorks is fairly ok since a lot of spells are around 2/3 mana so a turn one dork plus turn 2 vindicate effect gets you far ahead. Just getting that more reliably is the issue
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Personally I don't have much of an idea. I don't play any french let alone against Vial Smasher or Zurgo but I assume that dropping something like humility early will let you win pretty easy afterwards. My concern with 20 life makes a lot of our best spells much much worse so it's fairly risky.
I guess my answer is I don't know but it's worth testing.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I cut mystic a while ago.
Mostly because I often try and get clamps via whatever I can and if I draw clamps/skull before mystic she was fairly useless.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Some suggestions for mana rocks are Chrome mox, mox diamond, grim monolith, and mox opal would be decent subs
Better lands would be adding things like the remaining fetch lands and horizon canopy
The other cuts could get you something to gain life so you don't die to necro effects.
I wrote up a draft of Atraxa stax and didn't care for it. The general was ok but Ghave being a sac outlet seems far better.
I think Breya stax could be what you're looking for. I'm finishing up that deck soon and so far I really like it.
The deck has Land Equilibrium but works super well off uba mask and Zur's Weirding.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
I like the idea of finks in here actually. Real easy to keep him alive forever.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Atraxa is a very different deck than what this Ghave is doing. In order to make the blue worth the addition, the changes bring the deck away from the Living Plane and MLD focus. That's on top of the issue of losing Ghave from the Command Zone removes a consistent sac outlet and token generator to work with things like Skullclamp, Rector, Smokestack, etc. Atraxa Stax lends herself more towards mixing tapping effects like Tangle Wire and counter based cards like Parallax Tide with the destruction and sacrifice.
In terms of the ongoing problem of mass enchantment/artifact removal, especially now with Breya decks being a bit more rampant, I've been toying around with Seeds of Innocence to some pretty good effect. It sucks losing my own artifacts, but usually the majority of the hurt is on my opponents.
I'm also in agreement with Kitchen Finks being tested. I don't run Trading Post, and I'm occasionally needing some quick life gain. Finks would fill that.
I'll test out Mirri's Guile as well to see how it runs in the enchantment heavier build. Another card similar to that which I've seen is Abundance, and I've had that on my list to test; the only issue is the 4 cmc, but I've seen it be good for filtering land draws when they are and aren't needed.
What do you guys think?
One sided artifact wrath but it's often gonna be temporary.
You can have the golden situation where it's a creature and you sac it in response to an exile trigger so all the rocks are gone forever. I think that's how it works anyway.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
After 8 or so games with Mirri's Guile hitting the board, often early or turn 1, I found it pretty underwhelming. Especially when Top and Library are in the deck. It works as a budget replacement for either, but it really wasn't worth having on the field most of the time once one of the other two dropped.
Kitchen Finks has been pretty good for me, but that's also due to my list running Phyrexian Altar already.
Glad Finks has been working ok, I'm wanting to test it out soon
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Edit err. Nm ignore me. I read artifact or enchantment in some sort of fever dream on the newly previewed srams draw instead of aura or equipment.
Looks like I get the last laugh here...
But yeah that would have been amazing.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Weathered Wayfarer- Gets Cradle, Sanctum, Strip Mine, Tabernacle
Kitchen Finks- Tons of life gain with Ghave
Liliana, hertical healer- Good walker and creature for here that makes a token and gives us a good walker with reanimation
Lapse of Certainty- One counter?
restoration Specialist- Returns artifacts and Enchantments
Nissa, Vital Force- Really good in my Selvala deck and I really wanna test it out here
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU