MTG Salvation

Kinda true.
Without void you don't need cavern of souls.
Tabernacle and cradle are good but without them you don't need crop rotation.
There are plenty of cheap tutors and whatnot to get lock outs with Living plane and Linvala/Norn. You can also go the Solitary confinement route with enchantment protection to null all damage to you.
I agree the deck loses lots of power without the big cards but they're not really necessary. I had lots of fun and strong games before I got them

I have everything except The tabernacle at pendrell vale and Nether Void ... what would you replace them with?

I have a Ghave combo/tokens deck.... but its a bit fragile in my meta with reanimator decks with tons of sweepers and its a 3+4 piece combo so its a little slow like most Ghave combo decks. so I was thinking this Stax version might be better... would you also mind going through some wins/plays etc... really looking forward to the progression of this list. thanks for this!:)

You can replace either with more lockdown cards.
Privileged position is something I'd want to add as well as Contamination due to it's lock with so many token makers. Nature's revolt is another win con that works well with our cards

Win-cons

Living plane + Linvala, keeper of silence-Opponents lands cannot tap for mana. Elesh norn, grand cenobite to kill all opponents lands
Living plane + Humility- Lands cannot tap for mana
Humility + general. We have a 6/6 while opponents don't. Works well with Umezawa's Jitte

You can lock down creatures entirely with enchantments. Storm decks are harder without Nether void but I'd suggest either Trinisphere or Sphere of resistance if those are issues

Basically just lock down everything they have and land a walker. They can easily take the game away in your favor.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion being the big one since it's ultimate wins the game.

Thanks for the updates! Cannot wait to test it out!

Any recent updates? I know your looking to fit in Argothian Enchantress. And Solitary Confinement

I like the list as it is right now but there are quite a few I'd want to test

Privileged Position- Creates states that you can't be touched with Sterling grove
Argothian Enchantress- Since the other two looters are insane
Terminus- Fun with Living plane
Batterskull- Works well with Humility and lifegain could help
Death cloud- Great with Necropotence and artifacts
Nature's revolt- Living plane number 2
Solitary confidment- Can't be hurt
Contamination- Lockdown with any token maker
Crystal chimes-Replenish number two that can be brought back with Sun titan

Issue is I feel like a lot of the cards on the list already are solid and I may want to keep them. Any suggestions for cuts?

Possible cuts just looking on paper...

Reassembling Skeleton
Aven Mindcensor
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Beast Within (Seems there is enough removal)
Frontier Siege (Maybe Carpet of Flowers is just better?)

Let me know your thoughts since I have not played this list yet... this is just thinking of the cards to get cut for more interesting cards that may fit the build better.

Argothian Enchantress is my top vote. As I said from the very beginning, cantripping effective spells outside of blue is top tier. This ones cheap and comes with protection.

Terminus has always been an awesome card. I say that not playing it since i learned about that trick in Jeskai Miracles in Legacy.

Batterskull seems like he fits. I can't think of a logic reason to add it, but I can totally see it being very relevant.

Crystal Chimes awesome card. That interaction with s titan is awesome.

Skeleton is decent with Smokestack and Ghave but it has been underwhelming.
Mindcensor stops tutors and acts like LD when fetching as well.
Garruk is a "guilty pleasure" in a way but he can draw an amazing amount of cards with the general and poops out tokens for stax effects.
Beast within I just like but I see what you mean. I just really like instant speed removal for anything
Frontier siege has been wonderful with so much LD. It pays for itself in a turn and has overall just been amazing with Armageddon effects

I'll probably have the list ready for next week so I'll put some input from playing with it finally

I think Gilded Lotus should be cut as well. I like your points on my opinions also. Def like Welgos cards to add

Usually I can agree with that but I find that having the lotus after a cataclysm puts it far in my favor

So what would your cuts be? Especially to add in Argothian Enchantress , Terminus, Crystal Chimes and Batterskull

Im thinking mindcensor, skeleton, and maybe beast within but I'm really not sure

So after some testing I've decided to keep Beast within and Mindcensor.
Beast is instant speed removal of anything I want and I have been loving Utter end as well, just because they're instants. I'm more likely to remove Vindicate over beast at this point.
Mindcensor gave me an epic play when the opponent tried to win off a turn 3 Doomsday. The mindcensor just wins the game against that kind of deck.

Skeleton I've been pitching over and over in mulligans and not using when he's in the grave because all his interactions (Smokestack, Aura shards, whatever) are all done by ghave and done much better.


So I'm cutting skeleton and nothing else at the moment since I can't think of anything. Honestly if I were to remove something else it may be Vindicate (which is weird to say)
I'm thinking of adding either argothian enchantress (The other two are great),Contamination (Lockdown), or Privileged position (Defense)

Thoughts?

Hey, cool info on the Mindcensor play! I'm all in for cutting Skeleton. Also thinking Aura of Silence isnt worth it so I would cut it. I think the big additions are...
Argothian Enchantress , Contamination and Privileged Position.

My cuts are...
Reassembling Skeleton
Aura of Silence
Oblation or Beast Within or Vindicate
All 3 are good removal... but i hate letting my opponents draw cards so maybe the cut is Oblation

I also hate giving opponents anything but those decks that depend on the general it's just too good to cut for that (I seem to be saying that a lot)
Also aura makes things more expensive and can brought back with Sun titan, I've really liked it so far.

I always say keep in cards that can target permanents of any kind. Despite that I normally cut Vindicate just because it isn't instant speed but that doesn't seem to important outside of blue. I think that idea also takes away the window where Oblation sometimes works to let yourself draw. Beast within seems the most solid as in most circumstances the token would be swallowed up by stax.

Pretty much any instant speed removal like beast, end, aura, etc or whatever has been good for just the sake of answering things. Nothing worse than having someone resolve a skullclamp and draw 10 cards while you stare are your vindicate.
I'm fairly torn on what to cut though, vindicate blows up lands. I hate lands, vindicate is a buddy

Yeah this is very tough. I just threw some ideas out there but the list is very tight. I cut Skeleton and Aura of Silence for Enchantress and Priveledged position

Vindicate hits one land. I only really see that being relevant against someone ramping too hard early. I think you can factor that out in your decision making. I just personally feel if it's going for lands it kind of buys you hate you don't need.

What are thoughts on Toxic deluge and Elesh Norn, grand cenobite?
Norn is sweet with plane but not really necessary. I like deluge but I feel like terminus may be better anyway.
And I'm also torn on if I want to keep mindcensor at all, he really proves his worth when I consider cutting him

Norn is a pretty sweet board lock when shes out. Toxic Deluge could be replaced with Terminus. I only run it in combo because of the 3 cmc. Id probably still run Terminus but when Bob finds it...

Yeah but Norn is 7 whole mana and by that point I already have some sweet things already happening. She's sweet with living plane but otherwise just a win more most of the time.
What are thoughts on Parallel lives? It's a good token maker but it doesn't help quite as much as doubling season does. And I find myself ditching it more often than not. Sure it's nice to get extra guys but does it really matter too much? I have no idea at this point

Quote from Welgo »

Norn is a pretty sweet board lock when shes out. Toxic Deluge could be replaced with Terminus. I only run it in combo because of the 3 cmc. Id probably still run Terminus but when Bob finds it...

Why not run Dark dark tutelage over bob? Works well with the enchantments already and honestly the 2 power does not matter here.

The 2 cmc is huge with all the 0 cmc rocks. This is in Sharuum thought, I just meant to say Toxic Deluge's best aspect is the cost, so unless you need a wipe to use after Cataclysm I'd say Toxic Deluge can be cut for Terminus