Monarch is a pretty iffy mechanic in most ephara decks for me. I don't think I would play it in my shell because the variance is so high. I'd try it in a control build maybe but my gut feeling is it'd wind up getting you more often than winning.
My general theory is that you should avoid card draw mechanics with ephara and use her ability for the most part and monarch goes against that ideal like playing mulldrifter does.
In a recent pod, Ephara was one of the most dominant decks on the table (my friend was playing it). However, it seemed the deck had several problems:
1. The deck got out Heliod rather early, but didn't use his token making ability at all, and he never became a creature. I've come to realize that 4 is a lot for a token, not to mention 2WW for Heliod or 3W for Oketra. I'm starting to question if I really want to slot her in.
2. I wasn't happy with the amount of mana that Ephara got out. Sure, it was plenty for an Azorius deck, but I still felt it could have been better. I've been considering Walking Atlas as a 2 CMC mana creature, only this one is dependent on our hand and on us drawing cards to fuel its ramp. If we are in and advantageous position this card can help filter our hand from terrible serial land draws, or get more value out of Land Tax... But if we don't draw well it's a creature that does nothing. What are your thoughts?
Otherwise, Ephara beat face. Thalia, Heretic Cathar that I had considered replacing broke the table almost completely, making it impossibly slow for the Sharuum the Hegemon player to reach his combo and for my Omnath, Locus of Rage deck to get a meaningful attack phase. Solitary Confinement saved the day when the deck was at 6 HP, making my opponents concede.
Food for thought: Confinement - another card that excels only when you have enough card draw - is splendid, so that might be a case for our Exploration creature.
More food for thought - when my friends asked how Ephara won, I replied that tokens and equipment was the way to go, but then I realized that it never actually came to that - my opponents conceded far before that almost every time I was winning. And that almost never happens in our meta.
It's been making me think... Conceding is not a very fun way of deciding a game. Perhaps there should be something more decisive to help win. In Pokken's deck there are a lot more threats like Umezawa's Jitte and SOLAS but I'm starting my studies and I don't want to spend too much money on cards.
Do you have any other suggestions? Maybe Empyrial Plate?
In a recent pod, Ephara was one of the most dominant decks on the table (my friend was playing it). However, it seemed the deck had several problems:
1. The deck got out Heliod rather early, but didn't use his token making ability at all, and he never became a creature. I've come to realize that 4 is a lot for a token, not to mention 2WW for Heliod or 3W for Oketra. I'm starting to question if I really want to slot her in.
2. I wasn't happy with the amount of mana that Ephara got out. Sure, it was plenty for an Azorius deck, but I still felt it could have been better. I've been considering Walking Atlas as a 2 CMC mana creature, only this one is dependent on our hand and on us drawing cards to fuel its ramp. If we are in and advantageous position this card can help filter our hand from terrible serial land draws, or get more value out of Land Tax... But if we don't draw well it's a creature that does nothing. What are your thoughts?
Otherwise, Ephara beat face. Thalia, Heretic Cathar that I had considered replacing broke the table almost completely, making it impossibly slow for the Sharuum the Hegemon player to reach his combo and for my Omnath, Locus of Rage deck to get a meaningful attack phase. Solitary Confinement saved the day when the deck was at 6 HP, making my opponents concede.
Food for thought: Confinement - another card that excels only when you have enough card draw - is splendid, so that might be a case for our Exploration creature.
More food for thought - when my friends asked how Ephara won, I replied that tokens and equipment was the way to go, but then I realized that it never actually came to that - my opponents conceded far before that almost every time I was winning. And that almost never happens in our meta.
It's been making me think... Conceding is not a very fun way of deciding a game. Perhaps there should be something more decisive to help win. In Pokken's deck there are a lot more threats like Umezawa's Jitte and SOLAS but I'm starting my studies and I don't want to spend too much money on cards.
Do you have any other suggestions? Maybe Empyrial Plate?
1) I play a LOT of mono white so I thought I would give some additional thoughts on Heliod / Okina. Generally speaking when you look at mana for token producers they are better investments in colors that are more starved for card draw. Its true that you can draw a card and make a token but the token is still kind of weak. I have a token based Ephara together and I opted to not run Okina and only allow Heliod because I value mass vigilance.
Generally speaking if you are in colors / a deck that has issues with card advantage or wants to play a draw / go strategy that is when a mana for tokens strategy like this actually works better.
2) Walking Atlas has done a TON of work for me. I run it and Terrain Generator in my list because taking an early turn and giving up some mana for more later is strong. I actually dont love Land Tax in Ephara because honestly beyond like the first 4-6 turns it really is a not a good card. It has bad synergy with drawing lots of cards so its actually better in decks that have less draw to ensure land drops. If your deck is firing and you are playing creatures and drawing cards you shouldn't need to specifically be drawing more lands. Due to this, I have felt like Land Tax is a card that I would have to draw essentially in the opening few turns for me to like it in Ephara.
Worry about the deck playing well and not dying. This kind of deck is more of a concern about making it work well than how it finishes thigns out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
If you don't want expensive $$ wincons play anthems. Cathars crusade, eldrazi monument, etc. Elesh norn is a must IMHO but crovax is an okay sub.
If all tokens then leyline of the meek and the other token anthems are good.
I generally agree with isb on land tax but it's just been so stupid good for me. It is a poor topdeck for sure, probably better with Atlas and terrain gen tho. I use it to fuel forbid often. For a comp list tithe it's probably better.
I'll admit I mostly run it just because it's so good in an opener, and my groups games tend to be shorter than most so great opening hands are valuable. Aether vial kinda the same way.
I usually get going with Heliod only with nykthos. He can be good. I do consider cutting him a lot but team vigilance is very good and has won games.on its own. I would not play oketra.
I beg to differ on your opinions on Land Tax.
It's a fantastic card that gives me my choice of land drops or card fuel for Forbid/Solitary Confinement, plus it thins out my deck. And when we draw a massive amount as we do with Ephara, that is a critical factor that can't be ignored. Land Tax has almost never been a dud, even as a topdeck.
So I guess I won't be running Oketra, sadly enough. In addition to the expensive token cost, even though she's indestructible she's still a creature so she's very vulnerable as a token producing engine. I think I'll keep Mobilization in my deck because 3 mana tokens are exactly what I need.
I'm not a big fan of Cathars' Crusade here since almost none of the creatures stay long enough to get a substantial amount of counters. Eldrazi Monument can be very cool, but a lot of my tokens already have flying (1/1 Pegasus + 4/4 Angel from Luminarch) and Ephara is already indestructible, and I can see a bad spot where I have a ton of enchantments but no creatures so I'm forced to sacrifice Ephara.
I guess I could play anthems, but the only one I would really play is Thistledown Liege.
Ætherling has not been making appearances in recent games. The deck didn't play him even when it had more than 6 mana, since it already had a token engine it could abuse for cards and board position.
I'm really starting to think whether this card is worth the hassle... In most cases I don't even see myself using U to make him shoot an opponent, only blinking him for cards, and Saltskitter is cheaper and can do that better.
I too have not seen much of aetherling for a while. My meta has gotten a bit too fast. When I started playing ephara I could close games with a sword equipped aetherling because we had a lot of wraths and slower games.
It's on the block for me too.
I would consider always watching as reasonable to try, or maybe celestial crusader. Lots of anthems out there.
I think artifact only or token only anthems are probably the sweet spot though. White and blue are not the best buffing colors
With Angel of Jubilation being an anthem/hatebear hybrid and Thistledown Liege a flash creature anthem that immediately activates a 8/6 Ephara, I doubt that we have need of conditional anthems like Always Watching or ones that buff our enemies as well like Celestial Crusader.
White is an incredible color for consistently buffing hordes of tokens, the way we want to. It just sucks at giving them evasion.
The Liege doesn't instantly cause Devotion with Ephara. Ephara only sees 3 Devote symbols, not 6 - Hybrid mana is an "OR" not an "AND" which includes Devotion.
With Angel of Jubilation being an anthem/hatebear hybrid and Thistledown Liege a flash creature anthem that immediately activates a 8/6 Ephara, I doubt that we have need of conditional anthems like Always Watching or ones that buff our enemies as well like Celestial Crusader.
White is an incredible color for consistently buffing hordes of tokens, the way we want to. It just sucks at giving them evasion.
You tried archetype of imagination? That card is insane.
I just think mana drain is a lot more efficient, despite desertion being very strong in the deck. A buddy of mine picked one up for me overseas that was very cheap so there it goes. Maybe I'll have the opportunity to trade it toward a foil or something before they get reprinted
I did pick up a foil angel of condemnation but I'm not sure what to swap it for if anything. The card is good but the temporary nature is quite frustrating. I like Leonin Relic-Warder because of the stupid o-ring tricks you can do with it.
I'm guessing I'll try swapping it in for Faerie Artisans and see how that goes. That card has never once done anything for me, people always play around it.
I've long considered this card for the deck. My conclusion has always been that the mana disadvantage it puts you at is too risky, but the card is undeniably extremely strong. It doesn't eat up your graveyard like moorland haunt, doesn't require blue mana, taps for white itself, but doesn't make flying tokens. The downside is it eats one of your plains which is awful.
Has anyone played this much? Do you have opinions?
My gut instinct is that it's still too slow except for in a controlly build with lots of wraths and probably some bigger bomb sources of card advantage. Although perhaps it could be played as a 38th land in a spell slot.
While I no longer play Ephara, I do not doubt the strength of Kjeldoran Outpost. Being able to put out a board presence (such as Razaketh, the Foulblooded into Mindslicer which is making the rounds in my meta), even if it is a 1/1 deters a lot of attacks, especially if the board has had their hand stripped. Ephara loves it even moreso because of the card draw, which is more ways to draw yourself out of a problem situation.
I wouldn't put it in a 3 color deck, but I think 2 can easily handle the Outpost. The fact that it isn't an untapped Plains also means it could function like a Bounceland, not setting you back too far. Cast something minor and play the Outpost.
I am a fan of low opportunity cost improvements which a land almost always qualifies for.
Kjeldoran Outpost is a large exercise in questioning how much removal as well as what types see play in your meta. My own meta plays a lot of maze decks as well as a lot of strip mine effects. Its fairly common for decks in my meta to run 2-4 Strip Mine effects so a land that enters play with an opportunity cost of sacrificing a land is really risky because it puts you behind a land drop as well as opens the question of how much someone wants you to not have that land.
In my opinion, before you even start to consider Kjeldoran Outpost there are two questions to ask:
How much targeted land distruction is run your meta and what is the likelihood of it drawing removal
How much does playing a land that sacrifices another land put you back?
Outpost can be good but its really not something you are going to play in your opening plays (at least not before Ephara). Its a question of how long you plan to have it and how much value it can generate. In a lot of cases for me, I have plenty of card draw / creatures but tend to be limited by my lands so sacrificing a land to have more generation sounds kind of risky when paired with my expected lifetime of said land.
Random question but why do you run Ranger of Eos in this deck? Its entire purpose is to generate card advantage which is something not especially needed in this kind of deck. Why run it over something like Mulldrifter? I just dont see that much value in your 1 drops.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Kjeldoran Outpost is a large exercise in questioning how much removal as well as what types see play in your meta. My own meta plays a lot of maze decks as well as a lot of strip mine effects. Its fairly common for decks in my meta to run 2-4 Strip Mine effects so a land that enters play with an opportunity cost of sacrificing a land is really risky because it puts you behind a land drop as well as opens the question of how much someone wants you to not have that land.
In my opinion, before you even start to consider Kjeldoran Outpost there are two questions to ask:
How much targeted land distruction is run your meta and what is the likelihood of it drawing removal
How much does playing a land that sacrifices another land put you back?
Outpost can be good but its really not something you are going to play in your opening plays (at least not before Ephara). Its a question of how long you plan to have it and how much value it can generate. In a lot of cases for me, I have plenty of card draw / creatures but tend to be limited by my lands so sacrificing a land to have more generation sounds kind of risky when paired with my expected lifetime of said land.
Random question but why do you run Ranger of Eos in this deck? Its entire purpose is to generate card advantage which is something not especially needed in this kind of deck. Why run it over something like Mulldrifter? I just dont see that much value in your 1 drops.
To tutor for mother of runes or weathered wayfarer, or rarely serra ascendant. Mom does a lot of work in the deck, generally dominates the board if she's out. Wayfarer finds academy ruins, which is very important, and also strip mine, etc. I'd say that the tutor ability of Ranger is more important than the card advantage, but the card advantage is helpful.
Academy Ruins has become recognized to me as one of the most powerful cards in the deck. Won a lot of games off OStone-Ruins lock. I think it's possible a competitive list wants a trinket mage package with expedition map instead of Ranger, I'm not sure. Certainly very flexible.
It's definitely much stronger than Mulldrdifter, but I could see lots of arguments for other engine-ey cards in the 4 CMC slot. 4 CMC is quite tight. I like it though. Sometimes just getting serra ascendant and slapping a sword on it is enough to win a game too.
-------------------------------
Appreciate all the discussion on KJO. my experience is people in my meta play strip mine/wasteland usually and will hate-kill cards like that just to set you back, so that's kept me off of the card. Maybe I'll try it out at some point but just thinking of having that thing stripmined hurts.
--------------------------------
Another discussion topic that's been on my mind:
Oketra's Monument seemed really, really powerful on its face, and then it went on to be really good in standard and not terrible in a few modern brews. I'm thinking it might be worth testing out, but wonder if you guys can reality check me on that. I did get a foil one before they went up at least
I'm wondering if it might be worth trying over something, but for the life of me not sure what to cut anymore or if my thinking is even right.
My thinking is the ramp from pearl medallion and stormscape familiar has always been insane given how stocked my hand stays, and making an army of dudes seems good. The downside is I don't run a ton of anthems, so maybe they aren't strong enough.
Its really unfortunate that it costs 3 I guess is where I am at. The token generation seems less necessary given that you will already have a creature entering for Ephara's trigger. It could help with an anthem build potentially but man... I still wish it cost less lol.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The best possible scenario I see for this card is to have Whitemane Lion with it on the field and generating tokens each time you flicker it for W, which is nice but unnecessary. I'd rather have only the W flicker with no tokens for cheaper.
Most of my advantage has been from cards like Mobilization and Sacred Mesa anyways, and this card wouldn't help that strategy.
I wouldn't concern myself too bad with what's going on in Standard. Crested Sunmare is a deck there, and with enough engineering it could be stellar here - but not really worth it.
I have synergy I'm going to be testing out - I've ordered As Foretold as I've figured it would generate ludicrous amounts of mana in my list. The thing is that I have both Tolaria West and Restore Balance in my collection, so I can include them both to cast AF followed by transmuting TW into instacasting RB. I also have Trinket Mage to get Expedition Map to get TW.
I've really wanted to test this, but I get the feeling that Restore Balance is a really dead card without AF since the suspend will take forever. What do you guys think?
Also... Lately I've started getting a really tingly feeling in wanting to try and include Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. I do recall several times where the deck had good amounts of mana and just did nothing but draw cards for 2-3 rounds until it got something significant. Go ahead and shoot me down, I guess... LOL
I think it's reasonable to play another bomb creature. Creature removal is really taxed against our deck, and we have at least one way to reanimate him (and you could play emeria shepherd too in theory). It's interesting how often I discard fatties and reanimate them with karmic guide -- usually happens every couple games. There's a lot of random discard and I usually have to discard to hand size anyway. One time recently I ticked vial up to 5, discarded norn to handsize then reanimated it at instant speed with vial during someone's attack step
I do think it's possible Palinchron is a better bomb creature than jin though.
I don't think Restore Balance is good enough. If it was feasible to have another way to cheat it off maybe.
I am pretty sure after thinking on it and watching it for a while that As Foretold is good. I'll probably try it out at some point. It has a lot of synergy with the deck for sure, even just a free whitemane lion every turn is cool.
Alms Collector
Okay, so how didn't anyone here go nuts for this card?
I know we don't need card draw, but it's pretty much a strict upgrade to Spirit of the Labyrinth, since it's asymmetrical, it's fatter and it has flash.
I know I'm running that card for sure, even if it causes a few frowns.
Alms Collector
Okay, so how didn't anyone here go nuts for this card?
I know we don't need card draw, but it's pretty much a strict upgrade to Spirit of the Labyrinth, since it's asymmetrical, it's fatter and it has flash.
I know I'm running that card for sure, even if it causes a few frowns.
Not sure if it is a strict upgrade, as it only looks for someone drawing 2 cards at the same time. They use Phyrexian Arena? They get 2 separate draws and you get zilch. They activate Sphinx of Magosi 12 times? They get all 12 of those separate draws. Spirit of the Labyrinth would stop that extra draw.
I'm not knocking it, it's just a hard counter to something like a Wheel or Sphinx's Revealation. Wow, Flashing this in against a Wheel is dirty. Everybody discards, you draw 10 and they draw 1.
I'm not sure how good it really is since it doesn't shut off enough incremental card draw. The 4 CMC slot is extremely crowded as is. If I could fit another 4 cmc dude in I have a long list (resto angel, clever impersonator). My inclination is to say it passes 2 tests (flash and useful effect) and it's worth trying. But I am not in a rush.
Fortunate Few might be pretty good. Each person chooses something they don't control -- our stuff tends to be so innocuous that a lot of it might survive, and Ephara is resistant of course. Those mechanics usually end up being worse than I expect though.
Fortunate Few might be pretty good. Each person chooses something they don't control -- our stuff tends to be so innocuous that a lot of it might survive, and Ephara is resistant of course. Those mechanics usually end up being worse than I expect though.
I'm pretty sure that in my meta the only thing I control that might be picked are tokens. Nobody likes bears or token engines that draw us cards.
The issue with tragic arrogance is people pick their own mana reflection or whatever. This one lets them pick 3 tokens and you get left with Ephara and 3 tokens worst case Tragic arrogance was always SO BAD for me because other people play higher impact cards than I do.
The issue with tragic arrogance is people pick their own mana reflection or whatever. This one lets them pick 3 tokens and you get left with Ephara and 3 tokens worst case Tragic arrogance was always SO BAD for me because other people play higher impact cards than I do.
The thing is that they can pick each other's permanents, so we can easily get left only with Ephara.
The issue with tragic arrogance is people pick their own mana reflection or whatever. This one lets them pick 3 tokens and you get left with Ephara and 3 tokens worst case Tragic arrogance was always SO BAD for me because other people play higher impact cards than I do.
The thing is that they can pick each other's permanents, so we can easily get left only with Ephara.
That's entirely possible but I suspect mostly unlikely. Pretty sure people will make a game out of leaving the most pathetic crap floating around.
No real clue where what I'd cut for it though so probably a non-factor.
My general theory is that you should avoid card draw mechanics with ephara and use her ability for the most part and monarch goes against that ideal like playing mulldrifter does.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
In a recent pod, Ephara was one of the most dominant decks on the table (my friend was playing it). However, it seemed the deck had several problems:
1. The deck got out Heliod rather early, but didn't use his token making ability at all, and he never became a creature. I've come to realize that 4 is a lot for a token, not to mention 2WW for Heliod or 3W for Oketra. I'm starting to question if I really want to slot her in.
2. I wasn't happy with the amount of mana that Ephara got out. Sure, it was plenty for an Azorius deck, but I still felt it could have been better. I've been considering Walking Atlas as a 2 CMC mana creature, only this one is dependent on our hand and on us drawing cards to fuel its ramp. If we are in and advantageous position this card can help filter our hand from terrible serial land draws, or get more value out of Land Tax... But if we don't draw well it's a creature that does nothing. What are your thoughts?
Otherwise, Ephara beat face. Thalia, Heretic Cathar that I had considered replacing broke the table almost completely, making it impossibly slow for the Sharuum the Hegemon player to reach his combo and for my Omnath, Locus of Rage deck to get a meaningful attack phase. Solitary Confinement saved the day when the deck was at 6 HP, making my opponents concede.
Food for thought: Confinement - another card that excels only when you have enough card draw - is splendid, so that might be a case for our Exploration creature.
More food for thought - when my friends asked how Ephara won, I replied that tokens and equipment was the way to go, but then I realized that it never actually came to that - my opponents conceded far before that almost every time I was winning. And that almost never happens in our meta.
It's been making me think... Conceding is not a very fun way of deciding a game. Perhaps there should be something more decisive to help win. In Pokken's deck there are a lot more threats like Umezawa's Jitte and SOLAS but I'm starting my studies and I don't want to spend too much money on cards.
Do you have any other suggestions? Maybe Empyrial Plate?
1) I play a LOT of mono white so I thought I would give some additional thoughts on Heliod / Okina. Generally speaking when you look at mana for token producers they are better investments in colors that are more starved for card draw. Its true that you can draw a card and make a token but the token is still kind of weak. I have a token based Ephara together and I opted to not run Okina and only allow Heliod because I value mass vigilance.
Generally speaking if you are in colors / a deck that has issues with card advantage or wants to play a draw / go strategy that is when a mana for tokens strategy like this actually works better.
2) Walking Atlas has done a TON of work for me. I run it and Terrain Generator in my list because taking an early turn and giving up some mana for more later is strong. I actually dont love Land Tax in Ephara because honestly beyond like the first 4-6 turns it really is a not a good card. It has bad synergy with drawing lots of cards so its actually better in decks that have less draw to ensure land drops. If your deck is firing and you are playing creatures and drawing cards you shouldn't need to specifically be drawing more lands. Due to this, I have felt like Land Tax is a card that I would have to draw essentially in the opening few turns for me to like it in Ephara.
Worry about the deck playing well and not dying. This kind of deck is more of a concern about making it work well than how it finishes thigns out.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
If all tokens then leyline of the meek and the other token anthems are good.
I generally agree with isb on land tax but it's just been so stupid good for me. It is a poor topdeck for sure, probably better with Atlas and terrain gen tho. I use it to fuel forbid often. For a comp list tithe it's probably better.
I'll admit I mostly run it just because it's so good in an opener, and my groups games tend to be shorter than most so great opening hands are valuable. Aether vial kinda the same way.
I usually get going with Heliod only with nykthos. He can be good. I do consider cutting him a lot but team vigilance is very good and has won games.on its own. I would not play oketra.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
It's a fantastic card that gives me my choice of land drops or card fuel for Forbid/Solitary Confinement, plus it thins out my deck. And when we draw a massive amount as we do with Ephara, that is a critical factor that can't be ignored. Land Tax has almost never been a dud, even as a topdeck.
So I guess I won't be running Oketra, sadly enough. In addition to the expensive token cost, even though she's indestructible she's still a creature so she's very vulnerable as a token producing engine. I think I'll keep Mobilization in my deck because 3 mana tokens are exactly what I need.
I'm not a big fan of Cathars' Crusade here since almost none of the creatures stay long enough to get a substantial amount of counters. Eldrazi Monument can be very cool, but a lot of my tokens already have flying (1/1 Pegasus + 4/4 Angel from Luminarch) and Ephara is already indestructible, and I can see a bad spot where I have a ton of enchantments but no creatures so I'm forced to sacrifice Ephara.
I guess I could play anthems, but the only one I would really play is Thistledown Liege.
Ætherling has not been making appearances in recent games. The deck didn't play him even when it had more than 6 mana, since it already had a token engine it could abuse for cards and board position.
I'm really starting to think whether this card is worth the hassle... In most cases I don't even see myself using U to make him shoot an opponent, only blinking him for cards, and Saltskitter is cheaper and can do that better.
It's on the block for me too.
I would consider always watching as reasonable to try, or maybe celestial crusader. Lots of anthems out there.
I think artifact only or token only anthems are probably the sweet spot though. White and blue are not the best buffing colors
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
White is an incredible color for consistently buffing hordes of tokens, the way we want to. It just sucks at giving them evasion.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
You tried archetype of imagination? That card is insane.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
-Faerie Artisans
+Mana Drain
+Angel of Condemnation
I just think mana drain is a lot more efficient, despite desertion being very strong in the deck. A buddy of mine picked one up for me overseas that was very cheap so there it goes. Maybe I'll have the opportunity to trade it toward a foil or something before they get reprinted
I did pick up a foil angel of condemnation but I'm not sure what to swap it for if anything. The card is good but the temporary nature is quite frustrating. I like Leonin Relic-Warder because of the stupid o-ring tricks you can do with it.
I'm guessing I'll try swapping it in for Faerie Artisans and see how that goes. That card has never once done anything for me, people always play around it.
-----------------------------------------
Also: Discussion time!
Kjeldoran Outpost
I've long considered this card for the deck. My conclusion has always been that the mana disadvantage it puts you at is too risky, but the card is undeniably extremely strong. It doesn't eat up your graveyard like moorland haunt, doesn't require blue mana, taps for white itself, but doesn't make flying tokens. The downside is it eats one of your plains which is awful.
Has anyone played this much? Do you have opinions?
My gut instinct is that it's still too slow except for in a controlly build with lots of wraths and probably some bigger bomb sources of card advantage. Although perhaps it could be played as a 38th land in a spell slot.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I wouldn't put it in a 3 color deck, but I think 2 can easily handle the Outpost. The fact that it isn't an untapped Plains also means it could function like a Bounceland, not setting you back too far. Cast something minor and play the Outpost.
I am a fan of low opportunity cost improvements which a land almost always qualifies for.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
In my opinion, before you even start to consider Kjeldoran Outpost there are two questions to ask:
Outpost can be good but its really not something you are going to play in your opening plays (at least not before Ephara). Its a question of how long you plan to have it and how much value it can generate. In a lot of cases for me, I have plenty of card draw / creatures but tend to be limited by my lands so sacrificing a land to have more generation sounds kind of risky when paired with my expected lifetime of said land.
Random question but why do you run Ranger of Eos in this deck? Its entire purpose is to generate card advantage which is something not especially needed in this kind of deck. Why run it over something like Mulldrifter? I just dont see that much value in your 1 drops.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
To tutor for mother of runes or weathered wayfarer, or rarely serra ascendant. Mom does a lot of work in the deck, generally dominates the board if she's out. Wayfarer finds academy ruins, which is very important, and also strip mine, etc. I'd say that the tutor ability of Ranger is more important than the card advantage, but the card advantage is helpful.
Academy Ruins has become recognized to me as one of the most powerful cards in the deck. Won a lot of games off OStone-Ruins lock. I think it's possible a competitive list wants a trinket mage package with expedition map instead of Ranger, I'm not sure. Certainly very flexible.
It's definitely much stronger than Mulldrdifter, but I could see lots of arguments for other engine-ey cards in the 4 CMC slot. 4 CMC is quite tight. I like it though. Sometimes just getting serra ascendant and slapping a sword on it is enough to win a game too.
-------------------------------
Appreciate all the discussion on KJO. my experience is people in my meta play strip mine/wasteland usually and will hate-kill cards like that just to set you back, so that's kept me off of the card. Maybe I'll try it out at some point but just thinking of having that thing stripmined hurts.
--------------------------------
Another discussion topic that's been on my mind:
Oketra's Monument seemed really, really powerful on its face, and then it went on to be really good in standard and not terrible in a few modern brews. I'm thinking it might be worth testing out, but wonder if you guys can reality check me on that. I did get a foil one before they went up at least
I'm wondering if it might be worth trying over something, but for the life of me not sure what to cut anymore or if my thinking is even right.
My thinking is the ramp from pearl medallion and stormscape familiar has always been insane given how stocked my hand stays, and making an army of dudes seems good. The downside is I don't run a ton of anthems, so maybe they aren't strong enough.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Most of my advantage has been from cards like Mobilization and Sacred Mesa anyways, and this card wouldn't help that strategy.
I wouldn't concern myself too bad with what's going on in Standard. Crested Sunmare is a deck there, and with enough engineering it could be stellar here - but not really worth it.
I have synergy I'm going to be testing out - I've ordered As Foretold as I've figured it would generate ludicrous amounts of mana in my list. The thing is that I have both Tolaria West and Restore Balance in my collection, so I can include them both to cast AF followed by transmuting TW into instacasting RB. I also have Trinket Mage to get Expedition Map to get TW.
I've really wanted to test this, but I get the feeling that Restore Balance is a really dead card without AF since the suspend will take forever. What do you guys think?
Also... Lately I've started getting a really tingly feeling in wanting to try and include Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. I do recall several times where the deck had good amounts of mana and just did nothing but draw cards for 2-3 rounds until it got something significant. Go ahead and shoot me down, I guess... LOL
I do think it's possible Palinchron is a better bomb creature than jin though.
I don't think Restore Balance is good enough. If it was feasible to have another way to cheat it off maybe.
I am pretty sure after thinking on it and watching it for a while that As Foretold is good. I'll probably try it out at some point. It has a lot of synergy with the deck for sure, even just a free whitemane lion every turn is cool.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Okay, so how didn't anyone here go nuts for this card?
I know we don't need card draw, but it's pretty much a strict upgrade to Spirit of the Labyrinth, since it's asymmetrical, it's fatter and it has flash.
I know I'm running that card for sure, even if it causes a few frowns.
I'm not knocking it, it's just a hard counter to something like a Wheel or Sphinx's Revealation. Wow, Flashing this in against a Wheel is dirty. Everybody discards, you draw 10 and they draw 1.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'm pretty sure that in my meta the only thing I control that might be picked are tokens. Nobody likes bears or token engines that draw us cards.
I might rather run Tragic Arrogance.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
The thing is that they can pick each other's permanents, so we can easily get left only with Ephara.
That's entirely possible but I suspect mostly unlikely. Pretty sure people will make a game out of leaving the most pathetic crap floating around.
No real clue where what I'd cut for it though so probably a non-factor.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall