Faerie Macabre is one of the best pieces of grave hate in EDH imo. Its secretly a spell that reads "0: bust up target yard" AND can be pitched to SotF for tutoring stuff.
Its really, really good here since his deck likes tapping out mid/late game to hardcast his fatties.
The reason I play Faerie Macabre over any other piece of gravehate is that it turns Survival of the Fittest into instant-speed uncounterable graveyard hate. If I have G and a Survival in play, no player can combo out of their graveyard or use it effectively. It also pitches to Survival if I draw it but need to draw, say, Necrotic Ooze.
Crop Rotation is on the test list, but I don't have high hopes. I guess at worst it's ramp in that it finds Ancient Tomb.
Hey man, it looks like the OP got cleaned up and it looks a lot better. Just dropping in to say this is a good list.
How do you play around super fast combo decks? My meta is a little warped as there were a lot of combo decks that I play with, the most common being Azami storm, Damia, and Oona. I'm kinda getting annoyed at the boring games that consistently occur. There is so little variation nowadays, because we proxy up all the good cards that we don't have access to.
Hey man, it looks like the OP got cleaned up and it looks a lot better. Just dropping in to say this is a good list.
How do you play around super fast combo decks? My meta is a little warped as there were a lot of combo decks that I play with, the most common being Azami storm, Damia, and Oona. I'm kinda getting annoyed at the boring games that consistently occur. There is so little variation nowadays, because we proxy up all the good cards that we don't have access to.
Thanks for the notes on the primer.
I just race them. Permanent-based combo decks like Damia and Oona aren't a problem with this much removal - Unravel the Aether ruins Sharuum's day, Sudden Death beats Azami LabMac combo, Song of the Dryads kills Arcum... but all of these decks are raceable; I'm just as fast as they are. I'm not familiar with any storm archetypes in EDH so I can't give any feedback there, but if it's anything like Moxnix's Jeleva Storm, we're a much more resilient but a bit less fast, so just hope there's a control player I guess?
Hey man, it looks like the OP got cleaned up and it looks a lot better. Just dropping in to say this is a good list.
How do you play around super fast combo decks? My meta is a little warped as there were a lot of combo decks that I play with, the most common being Azami storm, Damia, and Oona. I'm kinda getting annoyed at the boring games that consistently occur. There is so little variation nowadays, because we proxy up all the good cards that we don't have access to.
Thanks for the notes on the primer.
I just race them. Permanent-based combo decks like Damia and Oona aren't a problem with this much removal - Unravel the Aether ruins Sharuum's day, Sudden Death beats Azami LabMac combo, Song of the Dryads kills Arcum... but all of these decks are raceable; I'm just as fast as they are. I'm not familiar with any storm archetypes in EDH so I can't give any feedback there, but if it's anything like Moxnix's Jeleva Storm, we're a much more resilient but a bit less fast, so just hope there's a control player I guess?
His deck is pretty wicked, with a turn 3 win coming as almost no surprise. Its pretty much entirely to thank for the healthy amount of removal in our meta, because not having a Path or Arcane Denial is very likely to just mean game over. I dislike the "hope there is a control player?" type of argument almost always, since its what people use to justify not having spot removal, and I don't think he even needs to bother with it.
The deck is good fast, medium, or slow. Take your pick.
Got in a tenish games today, against the Nin artifact combo and Avvina's Tas deck. I had some land troubles, but nothing serious. As it turns out, it's super hard for me to combo through Tas's infinite counterspells or a softlock involving instant-speed Spine of Ish Sah's. One game I almost won by flinging Lord of Extinction in the face of an infinite combo, but I was three life short of killing the combo player. Flinging Phyrexian Devourer won as many games as Ooze combo did, probably more, so I stand by my statement that Ooze combo isn't that good outside of Jarad decks. More and more recently I've been happy with Jarad as a commander leading my late-game action. One game I had Jarad in play, Trike in play with two counters, and my opponent had a Deathrattle in hand as well as two other cards, AND a Scavenging Ooze in play. I entwined a Tooth and Nail, getting Phyrexian Devourer and Ooze. My opponent says "wait," thinks for a minute, and scoops, recognizing there was no way to stop me. He shows me a hand involving Krosan Grip, Fairie Macabre, and the Deathrattle. I had THREE hard-to-interrupt combos there - Devourer combo (interrupted by K grip), Ooze combo, and fling-ooze-as-Phyrexian-Devourer combo - really no way to stop all three of those short of double Sudden Death on Jarad and Ooze. Kids, play uninteruptable combos, it makes all the difference. (Looking at YOU, Palinchron + Phantasmal Image.)
Harmonize, currently in Vraska's slot, never really felt bad, so I think that's the decision for my flex slot until later. I have to go now, but I'll update the primer later today. Cheers!
Try Journey to the Underworld? Its instant speed and allows for random (mediocre) protection of onboard creatures. Plus re-triggering EtBs like RSD or Woodfall Primus isn't a terrible secondary cost to an instant-speed reanimate spell.
I found Baleful Force would eat removal much more often than being worthwhile for its cost (reanimated or not) in any decks I saw run it. That said, this could be very different in your meta.
Thanks about the deck tags - I must have broken them earlier today when I was updating them. Fixed.
Earlier in the thread we had a discussion about Baleful Force and removal with DTrain, another Jarad player who had no success with Baleful Force for this reason. He played in a non-combo meta with a non-combo list, but a similar engine. Ultimately we realized the reason his Baleful Force was worse than mine was that it did eat removal, and mine doesn't as aggressively, because people in my meta generally save their removal for bigger threats, especially infinite combos. Landing a turn three Baleful Force really makes the deck work, and the power level difference between it and the Mike and Trike coming up two turns later makes Baleful Force look less scary. Plus, I can't cut something with art that slick!
I'll certainly look at Rings of Brighthearth. It does work well with fetches, but the other interactions seem pretty niche, and rarely am I using Survival for anything other than toolboxing out ramp creatures and comboing out. Looks hella sweet with Greater Good though! I do own the card and have a slot in flex so I'll take a look at it, thanks.
Is there some value to trying Cabal Therapy as something to cast from the yard? Living End is another possible card that is a powerful effect, it's just the slowest thing ever. I also think I would consider adding one more mana dork, maybe something like Joraga Treespeaker or possibly Voyaging Satyr to untap coffers.
Is there some value to trying Cabal Therapy as something to cast from the yard? Living End is another possible card that is a powerful effect, it's just the slowest thing ever. I also think I would consider adding one more mana dork, maybe something like Joraga Treespeaker or possibly Voyaging Satyr to untap coffers.
Voyaging Satyr seems to be blatantly the better of those two, because it gets him both colors (his deck is color greedy) and the coffers thing you mentioned. I could be wrong, but who knows.
Is there some value to trying Cabal Therapy as something to cast from the yard? Living End is another possible card that is a powerful effect, it's just the slowest thing ever. I also think I would consider adding one more mana dork, maybe something like Joraga Treespeaker or possibly Voyaging Satyr to untap coffers.
Voyaging Satyr seems to be blatantly the better of those two, because it gets him both colors (his deck is color greedy) and the coffers thing you mentioned. I could be wrong, but who knows.
Voyaging Satyr is interesting, yes. I've been thinking about adding Crop Rotation, which makes it even better, as it's easier to assemble Urborg + Coffers and easy to tutor Ancient Tomb or Phyrexian Tower, which makes Satyr even better. If I do play it, I gotta put Bojuka Bog back in - it's out right now. Almost makes me want to play Rot Farm ;). Honestly I've wanted to play Rot Farm for a while for a few reasons - it allows me to keep a 2-land hand and hit land drops 1-3, it resets Bojuka Bog, and the sick thech of Tempt with Discovery for Urborg, coffers, rot farm, trigger on the stack activate coffers, bounce coffers, land for turn coffers, activate coffers. B) Satyr also has synergy with Phyrexian Tower, Ancient Tomb, and Crypt Ghast.
On the other hand, Joroga has that sweet Jarad synergy. And Deathrite Shaman I GUESS. God, I wish that card were a Zombie Elf. I don't think I play any other elves except if Oracle of Mul Daya is an elf, I think it's an Elf Shaman.
Anyway, I'll test them both. I'll think about Cabal Therapy; I know it makes Hermit Druid combo pretty easy. Any other lands I should play with my Crop Rotation toolbox?
One that enters tapped. The great thing about Coffers is that I can TwD for it untapped and get a whole lotta man to use in one turn. Don't think Vesuva is playable :/
I think Momentous Fall may be a better slot than Harmonize; its lowest level is just saccing Jarad, who is extremely unlikely to be less than a 3/3 when you want the card draw, and he comes with life. At instant speed.
At best? You've sac'd a beefy LoE, put yourself miles out of dead-range, and drawn a billion cards.
You've sac'd a beefy LoE, put yourself miles out of dead-range, and drawn a billion cards.
That sounds like it would be decently likely to just kill you in some games.
Very rarely. I play Disciple of Bolas, which is basically the same card, on Lord of Extinction quite frequently and I have only had to hold off to avoid killing myself a couple times. Speaking of decking out, I actually got to mill out the table today by saccing LoE to Altar of Dementia a bunch of times.
When I play, Jarad rarely if ever gets cast from the Command Zone more than once. The only time I choose to put him into the Command Zone is if he's going to be exiled, at which point I'd never have him again if I didn't put him there. Also, if you are looking at just using Momentous Fall to draw some cards, I'd look into Life's Legacy. It costs half as much mana which means you'll usually have mana left to do something with the cards you draw, and instant speed isn't super important unless you plan on using it a lot in response to removal. I have definitely had games where I just run Jarad out and sac him to Life's Legacy or Greater Good or Disciple of Bolas to draw five or six cards, which is usually enough to jump start my deck in games where I otherwise don't have a ton going for me.
When I play, Jarad rarely if ever gets cast from the Command Zone more than once. The only time I choose to put him into the Command Zone is if he's going to be exiled, at which point I'd never have him again if I didn't put him there. Also, if you are looking at just using Momentous Fall to draw some cards, I'd look into Life's Legacy. It costs half as much mana which means you'll usually have mana left to do something with the cards you draw, and instant speed isn't super important unless you plan on using it a lot in response to removal. I have definitely had games where I just run Jarad out and sac him to Life's Legacy or Greater Good or Disciple of Bolas to draw five or six cards, which is usually enough to jump start my deck in games where I otherwise don't have a ton going for me.
Disciple of Bolas may be better because of Survival of the Fittest and Worldly Tutor reasons, if Sorcery/Instant isn't a big deal.
I've got the deck right now, and played a few games with it. Three actually. They were against Nin and my own Tasigur deck (oh my god, I'm scared of my deck). The first game is the most relevant, and I've got the most to say on it; it was my only loss. Game two I went last, and still won before any played untapped on their third turn. Llanowar Wastes, Birds of Paradise, go. Mana Crypt, Buried Alive, Reanimate, no answer. The hand was actually even more insane, because the remainder of my hand was Forest, Sylan Library, Survival of the Fittest - the game was mine to lose. Game three was a bit better; Nin took off ramping like it was a race, and had two Spellskites in play (dumb metamorph) protecting Arcum, Feldon, and a Rings of Brighthearth. Basically, she untaps and wins. Tasigur went super hard in destroying the Spellskites, including a Slaughter Pact, to clear the way for my Beast Within on Feldon, and then his Reality Shift on Arcum. Nin untapped and cycled a Decree of Annihilation, essentially killing Tas, and made it into a two player game. I recovered well thanks to a bunch of free kill spells keeping her from drawing off Nin like three turns in a row coupled with massive CA off Sylvan Library, Scroll Rack, and fetchlands. Ramp happened, entwined Tooth and Nail while she had no mana and a single known card in hand (she'd just transmuted a Muddle the Mixture... ouch...) sealed the game.
Nah, the first game is what mattered. Early game, I had a top. Mid game, I had some lands and a top. Late game, I had some lands, a top, and a gratuitous misplay of Pattern of Rebirth into an onboard Spellskite. Tasigur had basically established board control from turn 4 (it was an insane hand), and with no way to get a card draw engine online, the deck did absolutely nothing. I was irrelevant to the game.
If Jarad doesn't have a fast combo, the deck either gets an engine online or doesn't play magic, so prioritizing a way to draw cards seems to be the biggest thing. In all of my playing with the deck, Woodfall Primus has been little more than the 6th string combo, even being outclassed as far as Greater Good is concerned now. I wouldn't be against dropping him for either another source of card draw (even something as bad as Underworld Connections or Mind's Eye), and just appreciating that your deck is better when you draw cards than when you have access to Primus.
Its really, really good here since his deck likes tapping out mid/late game to hardcast his fatties.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Crop Rotation is on the test list, but I don't have high hopes. I guess at worst it's ramp in that it finds Ancient Tomb.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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How do you play around super fast combo decks? My meta is a little warped as there were a lot of combo decks that I play with, the most common being Azami storm, Damia, and Oona. I'm kinda getting annoyed at the boring games that consistently occur. There is so little variation nowadays, because we proxy up all the good cards that we don't have access to.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Thanks for the notes on the primer.
I just race them. Permanent-based combo decks like Damia and Oona aren't a problem with this much removal - Unravel the Aether ruins Sharuum's day, Sudden Death beats Azami LabMac combo, Song of the Dryads kills Arcum... but all of these decks are raceable; I'm just as fast as they are. I'm not familiar with any storm archetypes in EDH so I can't give any feedback there, but if it's anything like Moxnix's Jeleva Storm, we're a much more resilient but a bit less fast, so just hope there's a control player I guess?
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
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His deck is pretty wicked, with a turn 3 win coming as almost no surprise. Its pretty much entirely to thank for the healthy amount of removal in our meta, because not having a Path or Arcane Denial is very likely to just mean game over. I dislike the "hope there is a control player?" type of argument almost always, since its what people use to justify not having spot removal, and I don't think he even needs to bother with it.
The deck is good fast, medium, or slow. Take your pick.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Harmonize, currently in Vraska's slot, never really felt bad, so I think that's the decision for my flex slot until later. I have to go now, but I'll update the primer later today. Cheers!
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
I'll test Rescue.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
I found Baleful Force would eat removal much more often than being worthwhile for its cost (reanimated or not) in any decks I saw run it. That said, this could be very different in your meta.
And of course, because this seems to be nearly obligatory for most of my deckbuilding suggestion comments, have you considered Rings of Brighthearth? It works amazingly with fetches, your general, Sensei's Divining Top, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Liliana Vess, Greater Good, and Survival of the Fittest, at least.
Earlier in the thread we had a discussion about Baleful Force and removal with DTrain, another Jarad player who had no success with Baleful Force for this reason. He played in a non-combo meta with a non-combo list, but a similar engine. Ultimately we realized the reason his Baleful Force was worse than mine was that it did eat removal, and mine doesn't as aggressively, because people in my meta generally save their removal for bigger threats, especially infinite combos. Landing a turn three Baleful Force really makes the deck work, and the power level difference between it and the Mike and Trike coming up two turns later makes Baleful Force look less scary. Plus, I can't cut something with art that slick!
I'll certainly look at Rings of Brighthearth. It does work well with fetches, but the other interactions seem pretty niche, and rarely am I using Survival for anything other than toolboxing out ramp creatures and comboing out. Looks hella sweet with Greater Good though! I do own the card and have a slot in flex so I'll take a look at it, thanks.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Check out my competitive Momir Vig Toolbox Combo Deck
Voyaging Satyr seems to be blatantly the better of those two, because it gets him both colors (his deck is color greedy) and the coffers thing you mentioned. I could be wrong, but who knows.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Voyaging Satyr is interesting, yes. I've been thinking about adding Crop Rotation, which makes it even better, as it's easier to assemble Urborg + Coffers and easy to tutor Ancient Tomb or Phyrexian Tower, which makes Satyr even better. If I do play it, I gotta put Bojuka Bog back in - it's out right now. Almost makes me want to play Rot Farm ;). Honestly I've wanted to play Rot Farm for a while for a few reasons - it allows me to keep a 2-land hand and hit land drops 1-3, it resets Bojuka Bog, and the sick thech of Tempt with Discovery for Urborg, coffers, rot farm, trigger on the stack activate coffers, bounce coffers, land for turn coffers, activate coffers. B) Satyr also has synergy with Phyrexian Tower, Ancient Tomb, and Crypt Ghast.
On the other hand, Joroga has that sweet Jarad synergy. And Deathrite Shaman I GUESS. God, I wish that card were a Zombie Elf. I don't think I play any other elves except if Oracle of Mul Daya is an elf, I think it's an Elf Shaman.
Anyway, I'll test them both. I'll think about Cabal Therapy; I know it makes Hermit Druid combo pretty easy. Any other lands I should play with my Crop Rotation toolbox?
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
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#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
One that enters tapped. The great thing about Coffers is that I can TwD for it untapped and get a whole lotta man to use in one turn. Don't think Vesuva is playable :/
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
At best? You've sac'd a beefy LoE, put yourself miles out of dead-range, and drawn a billion cards.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
That sounds like it would be decently likely to just kill you in some games.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Primer tag!
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Much deserved? Sure, let's go with that. Nah, I'm just joking. It's a nice list and primer.
Your planeswalker and sorcery numbers are off in the decklist as of this comment.
If graveyard hate isn't too much of an issue, you could sac Jarad to Momentous Fall, then cast him from hand, which will keep his cost the same.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Disciple of Bolas may be better because of Survival of the Fittest and Worldly Tutor reasons, if Sorcery/Instant isn't a big deal.
I've got the deck right now, and played a few games with it. Three actually. They were against Nin and my own Tasigur deck (oh my god, I'm scared of my deck). The first game is the most relevant, and I've got the most to say on it; it was my only loss. Game two I went last, and still won before any played untapped on their third turn. Llanowar Wastes, Birds of Paradise, go. Mana Crypt, Buried Alive, Reanimate, no answer. The hand was actually even more insane, because the remainder of my hand was Forest, Sylan Library, Survival of the Fittest - the game was mine to lose. Game three was a bit better; Nin took off ramping like it was a race, and had two Spellskites in play (dumb metamorph) protecting Arcum, Feldon, and a Rings of Brighthearth. Basically, she untaps and wins. Tasigur went super hard in destroying the Spellskites, including a Slaughter Pact, to clear the way for my Beast Within on Feldon, and then his Reality Shift on Arcum. Nin untapped and cycled a Decree of Annihilation, essentially killing Tas, and made it into a two player game. I recovered well thanks to a bunch of free kill spells keeping her from drawing off Nin like three turns in a row coupled with massive CA off Sylvan Library, Scroll Rack, and fetchlands. Ramp happened, entwined Tooth and Nail while she had no mana and a single known card in hand (she'd just transmuted a Muddle the Mixture... ouch...) sealed the game.
Nah, the first game is what mattered. Early game, I had a top. Mid game, I had some lands and a top. Late game, I had some lands, a top, and a gratuitous misplay of Pattern of Rebirth into an onboard Spellskite. Tasigur had basically established board control from turn 4 (it was an insane hand), and with no way to get a card draw engine online, the deck did absolutely nothing. I was irrelevant to the game.
If Jarad doesn't have a fast combo, the deck either gets an engine online or doesn't play magic, so prioritizing a way to draw cards seems to be the biggest thing. In all of my playing with the deck, Woodfall Primus has been little more than the 6th string combo, even being outclassed as far as Greater Good is concerned now. I wouldn't be against dropping him for either another source of card draw (even something as bad as Underworld Connections or Mind's Eye), and just appreciating that your deck is better when you draw cards than when you have access to Primus.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe