I hope you put this in there just for a joke win. I feel like that might be a memorable win.
It seems to be a bit like the lifetime achievement of killing someone with a Bolas wielding Bolas.
Its super awkward but it starts up by having both Nicol Bolas and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in play. From there you Liquimetal Coating + Bludgeon Brawl allowing Nicol Bolas to literally wield himself as a club. Its in the absolutely never going to happen situations but if it does I think the world explodes or something of the sort.
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I hope you put this in there just for a joke win. I feel like that might be a memorable win.
It seems to be a bit like the lifetime achievement of killing someone with a Bolas wielding Bolas.
Its super awkward but it starts up by having both Nicol Bolas and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in play. From there you Liquimetal Coating + Bludgeon Brawl allowing Nicol Bolas to literally wield himself as a club. Its in the absolutely never going to happen situations but if it does I think the world explodes or something of the sort.
It also works with Mycosynth Lattice... But that's the idea I think you'd remember getting beaten in by a planewalker for 21.
Cards to consider
gilded lotus/thran dynamo
sculpting steel
workshop
Tangle wire
gilded lotus / thran dynamo I opted to include mana doublers instead in my list. I think they often function similarly but to be honest, I don't know how much I really even need the mana doublers in here. I need to test more but its likely I need to push up my draw more than having more big mana currently.
sculpting steel I just removed it to make room for Torpor Orb. My issue with the steel offhand is that I will often be doubling up on artifacts instead of gaining access to something I did not already have. There is of course copying opponents targets but its not giving me something I did not already have most of the time. It really comes down to how artifact heavy my opponents are I think offhand. I will need to do a lot more testing with my list but its on the list of things to try to bring back in through the list when I can.
workshop 100% would put in if I have it. I am currently complaining about needing to get an Imperial Recruiter though so... yea thats going to be a really long shot to get currently. I would really love to have a copy for this deck but at the same time, I haven't really had many decks that I would put it in if I owned one so it makes it harder to really justify as it stands. It would be so amazing though. I could feasibly do this but at the same time, its like 3-5 months worth of magic budget to really even consider it.
Tangle Wire I probably should make room and bring it back in. In my really early stages of mocking this up I had it and Smokestack in the list. I ended up cutting them both really early but I have been noticing that the cards that "fall off" later in the game don't matter as much due to the commander's looting ability. I should probably make a list of things I have in decent consideration as I have a few of them now.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Assuming you arent already running him, Zealous Conscripts is better than Metallic Mastery as he hijacks anything. I have considered him for purposes of sacrificing opponents artifacts. Assuming you want to run combo he has the usual kiki infinite as well.
Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient - I might need to put him on my list of possibles. I really wish he had interactions with more than just artifacts as so far I really love Rings. I will have to take a closer look at my own list to see if I can justify him. He seems amusing with Liquimetal Coating but overall I still feel like I don't have enough cards that interact with Liquimetal to really justify including it.
Clone Shell - interesting choice of inclusions. I feel I am overall still a bit light on creatures to justify him personally.
Tower of Fortunes if the cost and activation were swapped I would consider this more. 8 mana to activate feels really heavy though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
If you run with a Kurkesh, Ashnod's Transmogrant basically becomes "1R: Put a +1/+1 counter on up to two target nonartifact creatures, they're artifacts now". Red Scrap decks can get a decent amount of benefit from it, with a few legit targets:
I'm surprised Ashnod's Transmogrant hasn't been suggested yet. Granted, it works better with Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient in play (where it's basically 1R: Put a +1/+1 counter on up to two target nonartifact creatures, they're artifacts now), where you can double the effect.
Currently I am not running Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient and my overall non artifact creature count is a bit low. Still, it is an interesting observation. I might have to look to see if I cant find anything that would combo with that to do amusing and broken things. Overall I still expect that that interaction is a little too small overall to matter enough to run.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I'm surprised Ashnod's Transmogrant hasn't been suggested yet. Granted, it works better with Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient in play (where it's basically 1R: Put a +1/+1 counter on up to two target nonartifact creatures, they're artifacts now), where you can double the effect.
Currently I am not running Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient and my overall non artifact creature count is a bit low. Still, it is an interesting observation. I might have to look to see if I cant find anything that would combo with that to do amusing and broken things. Overall I still expect that that interaction is a little too small overall to matter enough to run.
I think you quoted me before I edited it, I think (I had only meant to preview what you quoted to make sure the mana symbols displayed). I don't think your current build wouldn't really support it.
I do think Kurkesh may be worth the slot with your current set-up. Almost half your cards would get a huge boost, for it, but a copied mindslaver effect alone in a multiplayer game seems pretty brutal.
I think you quoted me before I edited it, I think (I had only meant to preview what you quoted to make sure the mana symbols displayed). I don't think your current build wouldn't really support it.
I do think Kurkesh may be worth the slot with your current set-up. Almost half your cards would get a huge boost, for it, but a copied mindslaver effect alone in a multiplayer game seems pretty brutal.
I went through my current list just to check and see what all he interacted with and came up with this list:
Overall, that is 12 targets. I felt that of these about 1/4 of them seemed a bit minor like Claws, scarecrown and mind stone. It is still a little bit low in my mind but the idea of paying R1 to draw cards with Sensei's Divining Top does seem quite amusing. In general I was a little underwhelmed by Sneak Attack in my testing this week so I suppose I could justify swapping the two of them and seeing what comes of it. Overall I am a little leery still but I have a lot of things I want to get around to testing so moving things that don't perform well is going to need to happen.
EDIT: I was being lazy but I want to make one other change while I am at it.
DECK CHANGES:
Mycosynth Wellspring -> Skullclamp I run enough tokens and need draw. I think that these are cool but at the same time the power behind them is relatively small. I think the draw cards one is much stronger of the two so I will keep that one in for now and rotate this one out. I run enough token tactics that Skullclamp seems to be necessary at this time.
Sneak Attack -> Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient sneek attack has been a bit lacking for me so far mostly because I just dont have enough creatures to get away with it being amazing. Its still fun with the idea of Daretti scrapping artifact creatures after they come in for cheap but overall I dont run on ETB effects or creature abuse as a whole.
Honestly though I would say Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer is a must have for a red artifact deck if he is not at the helm. The ability to protect an artifact that is more important than another is quiet strong value. Combined with Daretti and Goblin Welder and you should have little issue reclaiming a lost artifact.
Another one to consider is Bosh, Iron Golem. If your running Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient you might as well run Bosh as well. I been tinkering with a Daretti deck that uses Bosh alongside Grafted Exoskeleton to create a win condition. Combined with exoskeleton and it can result in paying 3RR to end any opponent instead of 6RR like it normally would.
Finally have you considered Hellkite Tyrant? Its a win condition that rewards playing against/with artifacts.
Well, first don't forget that this is a recursion oriented deck, so you'll be seeing some of these cards you're sacrificing again. Also, a lot of these copies are a hell of a lot of card advantage:
Burnished Hart: 4 Mountains Scarecrone: Repeatable two artifact creatures on to the battlefield Kuldotha Forgemaster: Tutor two artifacts onto the battlefield Tormod's Crypt: Exile two player's graveyards Sensei's Divining Top: Hehe. Mana Vault: Not sure on the rules on this, but can't you tap it twice? (untap and copy the ability, let the first untap on the stack resolve, then tap it as normal, then the second untap resolves). Never mind, I missed the End of Upkeep part. Ring of Three Wishes: Ring of Six Wishes Mindslaver: Control two other player's next turns. With two other players and Daretti on the board, this essentially becomes an instant win, as no one should ever get to control their turn again.
Problem is the early flier, not the late ones: if you don't have Faithless Looting or Trading Post there is nothing to reanimate in GY. So you use Daretti's +2 and he's open to all sorts of nasty fliers - Serra Ascendant, Baleful Strix, Coralhelm Commander etc etc etc. He might not die, but have to little loyalty to even do his powerhouse, the -2. And then it gets very hard to start the Daretti scrap-engine.
Scrying Sheets should be in there, you're running snow covered mountains anyway. It's repeatable pseudo card draw, and with top in play it's easy to make sure you always hit with it.
I agree that Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient is really good in a deck like this. Same thing with Bosh. Bosh is a huge threat and you can cheat him into play pretty easily.
Sorry if I am missing something obvious here, but why is Squee, Goblin Nabob in the list?
Looting effects and Squee go hand in hand with each other.
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Currently Playing:
EDH: GRW Marath, Will of the Wild GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed UR Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind R Feldon of the Third Path B King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
Sorry if I am missing something obvious here, but why is Squee, Goblin Nabob in the list?
He recovers to hand each turn so while utilizing Daretti's ability he essentially functions as a Phyrexian Arena in the fact that he bloats your hand by an extra card each turn so he discards really well to Daretti's first ability. He essentially directly draws one extra card a turn every time you use the filter abilities.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
you HAVE to put lifeline in this deck. Its amazing synergy with your general, goblin welder, scarecrone, burnished hart, kuldotha forgemaster, wurmcoil engine, trading post, etc etc. Karn is fun with lifeline too - turning your mana crypt, artifact lands into creatures too untap them, making mindslaver come back every turn, etc.
Plus the card is crazy fun. And people usually won't destroy it because its fun and helpful - the key is making it benefit you more than it does them.
you HAVE to put lifeline in this deck. Its amazing synergy with your general, goblin welder, scarecrone, burnished hart, kuldotha forgemaster, wurmcoil engine, trading post, etc etc. Karn is fun with lifeline too - turning your mana crypt, artifact lands into creatures too untap them, making mindslaver come back every turn, etc.
Plus the card is crazy fun. And people usually won't destroy it because its fun and helpful - the key is making it benefit you more than it does them.
It is an interesting suggestion. The downside at the moment is that I dont run a lot of ETB based artifacts (to the point that I run Torpor Orb). I do currently have the option of Karn + Mindslaver + Nim Deathmantle as a roundabout similar way to accomplish this but for a little more mana.
It is something to consider but I think it is better with a heavier amount of ETB creatures in the list as well as repeatable sacrifice outlets where I could loop them more often. I could see a list based more arround ETB creatures and abusing them utilizing such tactics a bit better.
As a side note, I am considering adding more wraths to my list currently. Rolling Earthquake and Chain Reaction are the two I am sort of kicking around at the moment.
Nah, most definitely impossible. Or are you thinking of another, non-PW-as-commander card in this deck?
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
Liquimetal Coating + Karn, Silver Golem + Swords
GET THERE!!!! I was assuming it was a joke suggestion as its got far too many complications to make it work.
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I hope you put this in there just for a joke win. I feel like that might be a memorable win.
It seems to be a bit like the lifetime achievement of killing someone with a Bolas wielding Bolas.
Its super awkward but it starts up by having both Nicol Bolas and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in play. From there you Liquimetal Coating + Bludgeon Brawl allowing Nicol Bolas to literally wield himself as a club. Its in the absolutely never going to happen situations but if it does I think the world explodes or something of the sort.
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It also works with Mycosynth Lattice... But that's the idea I think you'd remember getting beaten in by a planewalker for 21.
gilded lotus/thran dynamo
sculpting steel
workshop
Tangle wire
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
gilded lotus / thran dynamo I opted to include mana doublers instead in my list. I think they often function similarly but to be honest, I don't know how much I really even need the mana doublers in here. I need to test more but its likely I need to push up my draw more than having more big mana currently.
sculpting steel I just removed it to make room for Torpor Orb. My issue with the steel offhand is that I will often be doubling up on artifacts instead of gaining access to something I did not already have. There is of course copying opponents targets but its not giving me something I did not already have most of the time. It really comes down to how artifact heavy my opponents are I think offhand. I will need to do a lot more testing with my list but its on the list of things to try to bring back in through the list when I can.
workshop 100% would put in if I have it. I am currently complaining about needing to get an Imperial Recruiter though so... yea thats going to be a really long shot to get currently. I would really love to have a copy for this deck but at the same time, I haven't really had many decks that I would put it in if I owned one so it makes it harder to really justify as it stands. It would be so amazing though. I could feasibly do this but at the same time, its like 3-5 months worth of magic budget to really even consider it.
Tangle Wire I probably should make room and bring it back in. In my really early stages of mocking this up I had it and Smokestack in the list. I ended up cutting them both really early but I have been noticing that the cards that "fall off" later in the game don't matter as much due to the commander's looting ability. I should probably make a list of things I have in decent consideration as I have a few of them now.
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Assuming you arent already running him, Zealous Conscripts is better than Metallic Mastery as he hijacks anything. I have considered him for purposes of sacrificing opponents artifacts. Assuming you want to run combo he has the usual kiki infinite as well.
Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient - I might need to put him on my list of possibles. I really wish he had interactions with more than just artifacts as so far I really love Rings. I will have to take a closer look at my own list to see if I can justify him. He seems amusing with Liquimetal Coating but overall I still feel like I don't have enough cards that interact with Liquimetal to really justify including it.
Clone Shell - interesting choice of inclusions. I feel I am overall still a bit light on creatures to justify him personally.
Tower of Fortunes if the cost and activation were swapped I would consider this more. 8 mana to activate feels really heavy though.
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I'm excited to copy an Artifact Feldon's ability, at some point in the future. Granted, this isn't optimal with the way you're taking the deck.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Currently I am not running Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient and my overall non artifact creature count is a bit low. Still, it is an interesting observation. I might have to look to see if I cant find anything that would combo with that to do amusing and broken things. Overall I still expect that that interaction is a little too small overall to matter enough to run.
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I think you quoted me before I edited it, I think (I had only meant to preview what you quoted to make sure the mana symbols displayed). I don't think your current build wouldn't really support it.
I do think Kurkesh may be worth the slot with your current set-up. Almost half your cards would get a huge boost, for it, but a copied mindslaver effect alone in a multiplayer game seems pretty brutal.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I went through my current list just to check and see what all he interacted with and came up with this list:
Overall, that is 12 targets. I felt that of these about 1/4 of them seemed a bit minor like Claws, scarecrown and mind stone. It is still a little bit low in my mind but the idea of paying R1 to draw cards with Sensei's Divining Top does seem quite amusing. In general I was a little underwhelmed by Sneak Attack in my testing this week so I suppose I could justify swapping the two of them and seeing what comes of it. Overall I am a little leery still but I have a lot of things I want to get around to testing so moving things that don't perform well is going to need to happen.
EDIT: I was being lazy but I want to make one other change while I am at it.
DECK CHANGES:
Mycosynth Wellspring -> Skullclamp I run enough tokens and need draw. I think that these are cool but at the same time the power behind them is relatively small. I think the draw cards one is much stronger of the two so I will keep that one in for now and rotate this one out. I run enough token tactics that Skullclamp seems to be necessary at this time.
Sneak Attack -> Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient sneek attack has been a bit lacking for me so far mostly because I just dont have enough creatures to get away with it being amazing. Its still fun with the idea of Daretti scrapping artifact creatures after they come in for cheap but overall I dont run on ETB effects or creature abuse as a whole.
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Honestly though I would say Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer is a must have for a red artifact deck if he is not at the helm. The ability to protect an artifact that is more important than another is quiet strong value. Combined with Daretti and Goblin Welder and you should have little issue reclaiming a lost artifact.
Another one to consider is Bosh, Iron Golem. If your running Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient you might as well run Bosh as well. I been tinkering with a Daretti deck that uses Bosh alongside Grafted Exoskeleton to create a win condition. Combined with exoskeleton and it can result in paying 3RR to end any opponent instead of 6RR like it normally would.
Finally have you considered Hellkite Tyrant? Its a win condition that rewards playing against/with artifacts.
Well, first don't forget that this is a recursion oriented deck, so you'll be seeing some of these cards you're sacrificing again. Also, a lot of these copies are a hell of a lot of card advantage:
Burnished Hart: 4 Mountains
Scarecrone: Repeatable two artifact creatures on to the battlefield
Kuldotha Forgemaster: Tutor two artifacts onto the battlefield
Tormod's Crypt: Exile two player's graveyards
Sensei's Divining Top: Hehe.
Mana Vault:
Not sure on the rules on this, but can't you tap it twice? (untap and copy the ability, let the first untap on the stack resolve, then tap it as normal, then the second untap resolves).Never mind, I missed the End of Upkeep part.Ring of Three Wishes: Ring of Six Wishes
Mindslaver: Control two other player's next turns. With two other players and Daretti on the board, this essentially becomes an instant win, as no one should ever get to control their turn again.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I like Thopter Assembly to provide lots of flying tokens.
Maybe run earlier board wipes?
I agree that Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient is really good in a deck like this. Same thing with Bosh. Bosh is a huge threat and you can cheat him into play pretty easily.
EDIT: You could also wait to play Daretti behind Predator, Flagship.
Looting effects and Squee go hand in hand with each other.
EDH:
GRW Marath, Will of the Wild
GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
UR Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
R Feldon of the Third Path
B King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
He recovers to hand each turn so while utilizing Daretti's ability he essentially functions as a Phyrexian Arena in the fact that he bloats your hand by an extra card each turn so he discards really well to Daretti's first ability. He essentially directly draws one extra card a turn every time you use the filter abilities.
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Plus the card is crazy fun. And people usually won't destroy it because its fun and helpful - the key is making it benefit you more than it does them.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
It is an interesting suggestion. The downside at the moment is that I dont run a lot of ETB based artifacts (to the point that I run Torpor Orb). I do currently have the option of Karn + Mindslaver + Nim Deathmantle as a roundabout similar way to accomplish this but for a little more mana.
It is something to consider but I think it is better with a heavier amount of ETB creatures in the list as well as repeatable sacrifice outlets where I could loop them more often. I could see a list based more arround ETB creatures and abusing them utilizing such tactics a bit better.
As a side note, I am considering adding more wraths to my list currently. Rolling Earthquake and Chain Reaction are the two I am sort of kicking around at the moment.
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