I wanted to chronicle my experiences playing this deck for a few reasons. I don't see a lot of conversation about Athreos and I think he's an absolute blast to play, even if he has his weaknesses. Since he was spoiled, I got really excited about trying to make him work in EDH. It started out as a Shirei clone with Ad Nauseam and a bunch of one-drops but eventually that got scrapped and turned into this. I'm not going to claim that it's good. This is probably my favorite deck to play at lower-power tables, though, and it really appeals to my desire to play bad cards. It's like Glissa in that respect. If there's any deck that teaches players that life is a finite resource, it's this one.
Deck Strategy:
This is a grindy, attrition-based control deck with a bleeder element. The idea is pretty simple. Play a bunch of dudes with ETB/LTB abilities. Sacrifice them. Recur them. Profit. Extort adds up damage across the table (and keeps you alive) while you bury your opponents under CA and wrap up with an Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless. Athreos Commander damage is also a somewhat viable win-con in this deck. I've seen a lot of situations where I can play a wrath and then re-play enough dudes to turn on devotion and swing in. We have a lot of enchantments that give high devotion as well.
Because Athreos is a card that gives your opponents a choice, most players will tell you that he's bad (a la Browbeat). While I mostly agree that cards that give your opponent choices are bad, I feel like Athreos is the exception that proves the rule. It just makes playing him a little difficult. If you don't like politics, this definitely isn't the deck for you, but at the same time... I don't really play politics, either. I like to think of it more that we're making our opponents' choices for them. We have to create a situation where giving us our creatures back is actually the best option for them (or at least, it seems like it). From my own experiences playing the deck, here are my observations on how to make the possible:
Redundancy is key. Strong reanimation options are a necessity in Athreos. They don't make Athreos's ability irrelevant - they compliment it. There will always be creatures good enough that your opponent won't let you have them. Being able to Tortured Existence them back to your hand makes your opponent's choice somewhat irrelevant. It's demoralizing. Furthermore, if you have a Phyrexian Reclamation in play, your opponent could take a Bolt to the face to make you pay some mana and life... but if you can get the creature back anyway, they're more likely to just let you have it.
Choose your target carefully. Athreos probably isn't meant for a competitive environment, and he seems a little cruel to play at a casual table since you really have to just target one player. But you can make this work to your advantage. Targeting the strongest player with your Athreos triggers might mean that you don't always get your guys back, but the other players at the table might appreciate it. You can, of course, get certain removal creatures back by targeting opponents that have nothing to lose (i.e., Shriekmaw against MBC). Typically, it's good to find a player that puts themselves on low life (or just has low life because of an early aggro rush) and target them. Or, if you know your group well, you can pick a player who doesn't much care about your game plan. In a multiplayer format, most players are more worried about their development than yours. Use that to your advantage.
Use the combat step. 1/1s and 2/2s aren't much, but it adds up, especially when your endgame is extort and Athreos triggers. We're playing more early creatures than most decks, so get in some damage while you have the chance. I see players fail to attack an open opponent all the time because they're more focused on the big bomby play they're going to make next turn. Don't do this.
Don't make everyone your enemy. This is hard. If your target pays three life for literally everything, you will lose before you can set up. Most players won't do this because it basically sacrifices their game to screw yours, but if you're a big enough dick, they might make that call. Don't "spread around the damage" or roll a dice to determine your target. You want to have a reason. And, of course, you're not really the bad guy. There's no reason they have to pay any of their life if they don't want to, right?
Let's take a look at specific card choices.
Creatures:
Children of Korlis. Has its strengths and weaknesses. Basically means that if a player can't kill you in one turn, you won't lose. Doesn't do much against Commander damage, but alas. It's a nice deterrent against early aggro. Great meta choice against Purphoros, if that's your thing. Nifty interaction with Phyrexian Reclamation. One-drop, so it's Ranger-able.
Kami of False Hope. Repeatable fog that you can grab with Ranger. Staple.
Qarsi High Priest. Ranger-able sac outlet. Downside? Has to tap. Upside? Manifest is pretty stellar with Athreos. The face-down card doesn't have to be a creature to get returned by Athreos.
Thoughtpicker Witch. Tutorable sac outlet, which is 90% of the reason it's here. The effect is actually pretty good. It exiles, blanks topdeck tutors, and fateseal is really good if the game gets grindy, which is the plan.
Thrull Parasite. Tutorable extort. The tap effect isn't absolutely irrelevant either. I've had to use it to keep a 'walker in check once or twice.
Viscera Seer. Free sac outlet on a body that provides card selection. A perfect card.
Weathered Wayfarer. Green decks be damned, I get to tutor Coffers. Also gets sac outlet land and recursion land. If you T1 this guy, you have to try hard to lose.
Blood Artist. Outside of a four-card combo with 'lark, this guy is still good. You'll be losing creatures like crazy, so this adds up. Makes Wraths even more one-sided.
High Priest of Penance. This card is good, guys. I promise. Why are you laughing? But seriously, I'll jump through some hoops to make repeatable Vindicate a thing.
Knight of the White Orchid. This deck boils down to "play cards that I loved from Shards of Alara." He's repeatable ramp that can keep you on par with big green decks, which is necessary in this format.
Suture Priest. Same basic idea as Blood Artist, but a little worse. Hoses some creature-based combos pretty hard.
Wall of Omens. Draws a card, makes a body you can sac, and does it again. One of those nonthreatening cards that will give you a lot of advantage over the course of a game.
Withered Wretch. Grave hate on a body. Would probably come out if he wasn't also a great devotion enabler.
Big Game Hunter. One of my favorite removal cards in EDH, seriously underrated. The limitation is far less relevant than Shriekmaw's, and I'm playing that. Cute with Tortured Existence.
Bone Shredder. Removal, flying blocker, and triggers Athreos without much effort. Not the best but he works.
Burnished Hart. We play Coffers, so there's that. It's a pretty big mana investment, but you can do it over and over and over. Another card that people don't really want to bolt themselves for, but will end up handing you the game in the long run.
Fleshbag Marauder. Sometimes, you need an Edict. He hits each opponent, and is a dude.
Grim Haruspex. I didn't include Harvester of Souls for his high mana cost, but then Khans gave us this guy. Can even Morph for a nice surprise.
Hallowed Spiritkeeper. Realistically, you're going to end up with some dudes stuck in your graveyard. He'll make a few fliers for extra sac fodder at worst, or crap out a huge army at best.
Kor Sanctifiers. Only card I could find that hit both artifacts and enchantments, on a body, in white or black. Better than that O-ring leonin because we love to sac things. Nonbo with 'lark, but most of our other recursion returns to hand, so the kicker isn't much of an issue.
Necrotic Sliver. The real repeatable Vindicate. I'm not mentioning that a lot of these creatures are 'lark-able, but I will here. 'larkable.
Ophiomancer. Not playing ETB: the Gathering hard enough, but is crazy with sac outlets and provides a good defense. If you're running him and disappointed, it means you need more sac outlets, not that he's a bad card.
Agent of Erebos. Grave hate on an ETB. Can trigger multiple times without even dying.
Crypt Ghast. The second best creature in our deck. Amazing with Urborg. Gives all of our dying one-drops late-game relevance. If I have to explain to you how good this is, close the tab and go play Surrak, or something.
Disciple of Erebos. Our creatures aren't huge, but even draw 2 + gain 2 is pretty good for the cost.
Erebos, God of the Dead. Not the best way to draw cards in the world, but he's another big beater that lives through wraths. With our gameplan, that anti-lifegain clause is pretty relevant too.
Solemn Simulacrum. He ramps, he dies, he draws, and does it again. In a deck devoted to value town, he's the gravy train.
Ranger of Eos. The best creature in our deck. No, I'm not kidding. He fetches sac outlets, win conditions (extort, duh), protection, or - get this - another tutor creature. 10/10.
Vulturous Aven. Triggers Athreos for us and draws some cards. Capable of just exploiting himself at worst.
Karmic Guide. Oh, you didn't want me to have that guy back? Sorry. And you'd better pay three for this, too.
Reveillark. Wombo combo. Enables the only actual infinite in this deck (silly) but also just generates a boatload of value. My only complaint is that half the time I draw him, my entire graveyard has already returned to my hand.
Shriekmaw. Doom Blade isn't very good, but it gets a lot better with a sadistic variant on multikicker. The obvious synergy with Athreos was too much not to include him, but he could be replaced.
Magister of Worth. When you're looking for a board wipe on a body, you take what you can get. You'll usually get that mode, which is what you're playing it for. If you get the other one, I imagine you will benefit more than most, but I can't say I've ever seen that happen.
Sunblast Angel. Another wipe on a body. A blank against decks that aren't particularly aggressive, but on the other hand he's sometimes a Plague Wind.
Sun Titan. The best way I know of to get back your Coffers if they kill it. Recurs dudes AND not-dudes, repeatedly, on a body... I don't have to keep going, do I?
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter. A sac outlet that kills things (and occasionally people). I could be persuaded to cut him, but he's done work so far.
Angel of Despair. ETB kill anything with a decent flying body to boot.
Artifacts:
Charcoal Diamond, Marble Diamond and Orzhov Signet. This deck is pretty color heavy, so these are the rocks I chose. This deck doesn't need a ton of mana, but in EDH some acceleration is pretty much necessary. We want to be doing other things past turn two.
Phyrexian Reclamation. I explained earlier why this is relevant. Not gonna get repeatable recursion at a better rate than this.
Tortured Existence. Makes every single creature that dies relevant. If they give you that one-drop but not Sun Titan, you no longer care.
Spirit Bonds. The indestructible isn't really relevant, but giving a kicker to all your dudes that makes fliers is still pretty good. Also the indestructible is occasionally relevant.
Oblivion Ring. Sometimes, that ***** just has to go away.
Mind Slash. Guys, targeted discard is actually good. Repeatable discard that can hit anything is REALLY good.
Infernal Tribute. Card draw sac outlet. Doesn't work with tokens. Keep that in mind.
Attrition. Repeatable kill sac outlet. It ain't fancy, but it's fine.
Underworld Connections. Arena #2. You have enough business lands that you can slap this on a swamp and it won't even be in your opponents' top five targets.
Grave Pact. Three devotion and an amazing effect. Clears boards (even indestructible creatures).
Dictate of Erebos. Look with your special eyes. It's a surprise Grave Pact!
Wake the Dead. Absolute blowout. Re-use all our ETBs, then deal a ton of damage or we get them back.
Sorceries
Diabolic Intent. A slightly worse Demonic. Not that much worse, for us.
Demonic Tutor. Anything for two mana, staple. If I drop this turn two, I'm usually going for 'clamp.
Victimize. A reanimation spell that gets you two dudes for three mana is great. It requires you to sacrifice a dork, which you probably get back anyway. Winning.
Damnation. At some point, your army of weenies will be outclassed, like by a 3/3. Then you wipe the board, and to add insult to injury, ask your opponent if they'd like to take a Fireball to the face as well.
The relevant lands are pretty self-explanatory. I love Weathered Wayfinder packages, though, so if you have some favorite nonbasics that would fit in here please suggest them.
This deck hasn't gone through a lot of revisions since I made it, so it may be a little rough. I'd love some feedback, especially with regards to bad cards I could cut and more bad cards I could add. Athreos is a pretty unique Commander, and I think he has a place in EDH, despite his faults.
Finally updating to my paper list with C14 and Khans block.
- Children of Korlis. Never really did enough. Swings often get big enough that this needs to be Kami to actually not die. Doesn't stop Triumph of the Hordes or Blightsteel either. It's cute with Reclamation or Erebos, but ultimately not good enough.
+ Qarsi High Priest. Testing as another one-drop sac outlet. Haven't drawn it yet, so no definitive comments as of yet. Has to tap, but Manifest seems pretty good with Athreos. Even if the card isn't a creature, it can still return to your hand with Athreos (I checked).
- High Priest of Penance. In the end, a few too many hoops to jump through for Vindicate.
- Suture Priest. The Blood Artist impression was too poor, unfortunately.
- Withered Wretch. Enough redundancy of this effect with the two ETB creatures.
- Emeria, the Sky Ruin. Never managed to turn it on. There's no such thing as Plains version of Urborg, unfortunately.
+ Bojuka Bog. To soften the blow of taking out WW.
- Moriok Replica. Testing other draw options that don't require an activation cost.
+ Hallowed Spiritkeeper. In a perfect world, we'd never have guys in our graveyard because they're all in our hand. IRL, though, I've very rarely seen him make less than 3-4 tokens, which makes him a better Thrinax. Sometime's he's just a blowout army-in-a-can. Pretty impressed so far.
+ Merciless Executioner. Functional Fleshbag #2. I'm not in love with this effect, but I don't see a ton of hexproof Commanders locally. It's probably a necessity.
+ Disciple of Bolas. There aren't a lot of big creatures in here, but even draw 2 + gain 2 is pretty solid for an ETB.
+ Vulturous Aven. Like Disciple but probably worse. Haven't drawn it yet. This is the slot Replica has a shot at taking back.
- Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter. Not a bad card by any means, but my creatures don't tend to have a ton of power, and this is ETB: The Gathering after all.
+ Angel of Despair. Was briefly Overseer of the Damned until I re-read the above comment and came to the conclusion that whacking anything is significantly better.
- Spirit Bonds. The deck is pretty tight on mana (well, white mana anyhow) and the indestructible wasn't usually worth it.
- Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. The weenie plan basically never happens.
- Liliana Vess. Bought a paper copy of D-Tutes so my IRL deck can stop being bad.
+ Diabolic Intent. D-Tutes #2 with an Athreos trigger attached.
+ Demonic Tutor. The realest of deals.
+ Wake the Dead. Timing restriction be damned, this card is crazy. Re-use like five ETB triggers, then burn someone for 15 unless they want me to get it all back. New favorite second favorite card in the deck (#Rangers4Days)
Noticed my 2-drop slot is lacking and my updates upped the overall curve slightly. Looking for some curve-slashing cuts and more options in the 2 slot for dudes.
I have a similar Athreos deck online, and it's a blast to play. Think I might take a leaf out of your book and lower the curve. Mine is filled with W/B fatties and I'm having a hard time casting more than one a turn.
I recommend Sidisi, Undead Vizier in there though, sometimes you cast her twice and get all the value.
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I love playing Athreos as well, he's (she's?) the commander of my Shadowborn Apostle deck. The first card I ususlly tutor for in that deck is Conspiracy to make everything a Demon. Then I can sacrifice 6 apostles to bring in Avacyn and get 6 athreos triggers.
I have a similar Athreos deck online, and it's a blast to play. Think I might take a leaf out of your book and lower the curve. Mine is filled with W/B fatties and I'm having a hard time casting more than one a turn.
I recommend Sidisi, Undead Vizier in there though, sometimes you cast her twice and get all the value.
Yeah, Sidisi is going in the next time I buy cards. She was pre-ordering at like 4x her current price so I was waiting 'till she settled. I have no doubt she'll be an absolute slam-dunk. In the meantime, I'll get a few more games in to figure out what to cut for her.
I love playing Athreos as well, he's (she's?) the commander of my Shadowborn Apostle deck. The first card I ususlly tutor for in that deck is Conspiracy to make everything a Demon. Then I can sacrifice 6 apostles to bring in Avacyn and get 6 athreos triggers.
I'm not a super big fan of the Shadowborn package, but Athreos is probably one of the best Commanders for it (with the competish being Shirei). Conspiracy is a neat call, opening up tutoring for some white creatures (Avacyn seems like a great choice) probably pushes B/W over mono-B. I'm not going to lie, I'd dig a deck that can go all in on Ranger and stuff like Proclamation of Rebirth or Return to the Ranks. Stuff that I wish had more value in here.
I know there is a thread somewhere on these forums that discusses the Athreos Shadowborn Apostle route, and is very similar to the build I arrived at. The lynchpins of the deck (besides Conspiracy) are Edgewalker and Thrumming Stone. Edgewalker allows the free recasting of any apostles returned to your hand, and thrumming stone gets them all out at once. Along with the demon pakage, win conditions can also be a storm spell like Tendrils of Agony, I once was able to swing in for 21 commander damage by casting Astral Steel after going off.
Though my favorite part of the deck was Altar of Dementia, a fun political combo card that could fit into any Atheros deck if the deck also has a way to cast a creature for free like Edgewalker. All you need to do is convince an opponent to never pay 3 life (or target someone that cannot afford to pay 3 life) and return the creature to your hand so you can mill another player's entire library in one turn. The pieces of this combo are easy to tutor for in these colors and cheap to cast, it is a great way to deal with players that use generals like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind who can combo out without warning.
Yo! Glad you're interested in Athreos. Personally, I've never thought to include Bloodthrone Vampire or Nantuko Husk. They have some value as sacrifice outlets that don't cost any mana, free sac outlets are a good way to try and re-use the ETB effects of your creatures. But personally, I find that I'm using sac outlets often in the face of mass removal, which is a situation where the Vampire and the Husk don't provide any additional value.
If you're looking for a more aggressive take, I would suggest Carrion Feeder (I value permanent buffs much higher than temporary ones, especially in the case of base 1/1s or 2/2s), Flesh Carver (not free, but provides much more value), or Fallen Angel (if your goal is to hit for a lot of damage, evasion is invaluable).
Looks like a really solid list. I'm glad that finally someone noticed the potential in Wake the Dead, it has been great for my deck so far.
While I go for a Cleric tribal route (no Shadowborn Apostles btw), here are some suggestions to think about: Jet Medallion/Pearl Medallion: Great, if you want to chain cheap die-triggers together... Apprentice Necromancer and to a lesser extent Doomed Necromancer: I prefer for tribal reasons Doomed Necromancer, but overall seems Apprentice Necromancer better. Academy Rector: You want him dead anyways. Dark Prophecy: Seems better than Infernal Tribute, even though the latter is a sac-outlet. Fiend Hunter: Sometimes mediocre, sometimes he smites evil in god-mode.
Other than that: How has card draw been for you? It seems to me that I'm always running out of hand cards in my deck. And do you draw often enough into Cabal Coffers to make Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless worthwhile?
Finally, Vampiric Rites: Yes or no for you?
I'm not really a fan of the medallions. If you're casting two cards in their colors per turn, then they outpace something like Mind Stone. Towards the end of the game, that might be possible, but I also think there are plenty of turns where that just doesn't happen. Especially in a two-color deck.
Apprentice Necromancer and to a lesser extent Doomed Necromancer: I prefer for tribal reasons Doomed Necromancer, but overall seems Apprentice Necromancer better.
That actually looks pretty interesting. It's a good number of Athreos triggers, to be sure. However, having to come down and wait a turn to tap feels slow. I can afford to wait the first time I cast him, but people let him come back to my hand, and I play him again, and have to wait again... it starts to feel like a lot of wasted time. I'm not sure I don't just prefer Phyrexian Delver for another direct-to-battlefield reanimate.
I should probably test it. The mandatory life loss kind of puts me off it, though. It will either kill me or accelerate me into a win before it can. Figuring out which... yeah, testing.
Fiend Hunter: Sometimes mediocre, sometimes he smites evil in god-mode.
Also think I might have to find room for him. He's great with any sac outlet (though explaining that interaction can be a pain), and I've been kind of disappointed in Bone Shredder and Shriekmaw's non-black, non-artifact restrictions. Not that they're bad cards, but it might be good to diversify.
Other than that: How has card draw been for you? It seems to me that I'm always running out of hand cards in my deck.
Keeping up a full hand can sometimes be difficult. I typically mulligan for two things - Urborg/Coffers or a way to get it, and some sort of card advantage engine. For us, that can be as simple as Wall of Omens as not a lot of people will take a bolt to keep you off a cantrip. That said, it's still totally possible for someone to ruin your game by just taking 3 for every trigger. That's why I think picking the correct target for Athreos triggers is the best way to keep up card advantage in the deck. We need to recognize the player who - whether it's because they're getting low on life, they don't care about our removal dudes, or they don't recognize/care about our game plan - is most likely to give us things back.
Weathered Wayfarer is the all-star here. I honestly don't think I've lost a game where I saw Wayfarer in my opener. I also have Ranger to grab him. Outside of that, I've even been tempted to jam an Expedition Map in here because those lands are so important. I do wish there were more ways to fetch nonbasics in B/W but that seems like something of a lost cause.
By the time I'm trying to win with Exsanguinate, though, I find that I've usually found a way to grab Urborg/Coffers. Also, the number of times I can set up Coffers with someone else's Urborg is much higher than one might think.
Absolutely yes. It seems straight-up better than Infernal Tribute, so that will probably be the swap for me unless I start feeling underwhelmed by another card.
Cheers for the speedy response! That makes sense, if it#s ok can I ask your opinion on including elesh norn and pontiff of blight as more secondary win cons?
Elesh Norn would probably be great. I've been surprised by the number of times I can just turn my cheap dudes sideways for some free damage so I can imagine a resolved Norn being a scary thing. She also a good hoser.
I don't think Pontiff of Blight is necessary. I'm pretty satisfied with my Extort guys and I don't (with the exception of having Coffers in play) typically have so much mana that I feel like I can afford extorting a spell 3-4 times. That said, I don't think he's bad by any means and I like extort as a win condition so if you want to try him, go for it and let me know if he's better than I think.
Also how big are your Debts/exsanguinates? do you ever have trouble resolving them through countermagic? You run a lot of creature hate but not much general permanent hate- do you ever struggle to answer stuff like torpor orb?
Usually I fire off Exsanguinate at X=12-18, off of Coffers and whatnot. More with Crypt Ghast but that's the dream and not something that happens every game. Usually by late in the game, that's enough to take someone out, the life swing is huge, and simply by virtue of my opponents being at low life totals I get free returns with Athreos which usually seals the game.
I haven't had a lot of trouble with countermagic. I think "true control" is not very popular in EDH right now - there are not a lot of decks that like to pass turn holding up mana so they can 1-for-1 somebody. More people should play more counterspells, but I haven't run into a lot that do. Usually, Athreos isn't priority number one for most opponents, so if you see someone holding up double blue simply make a less-threatening play and let the counter hit someone else. EDH players are somewhat self-focused so I find that if they're holding up mana for a counterspell they'll counter something just to keep things going according to their plan. Just don't play into it.
That said, if you're in an environment where people play more counterspells (or play them with a little more finesse than the people I've encountered), there's unfortunately not a lot of ways to combat that in B/W. Adding a Grand Abolisher to the deck would be my first suggestion, followed by Boseiju, Who Shelters All which is conveniently fetchable by Wayfarer.
Torpor Orb can be a real headache, but it hasn't been a problem for me for a couple reasons. First, people love playing ETB: the Gathering, and I think the large majority of people are playing decks that would be hurt by Torpor Orb rather than decks that are comfortable playing it. Secondly, this deck plays better under Torpor Orb than you might think. It does require having the right cards - there are certainly hands that would be absolutely worthless with Orb out. However none of our sac outlets, Grim Haruspex, Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Extort creatures, Necrotic Sliver, or Athreos himself are hurt in any way by Orb. Furthermore, decks that play Orb typically aren't terribly aggressive - most of what we lose out on (ETB removal) is fine, let the Orb player deal with the now-vanilla fatties that the G players are dropping, and, conversely, let the ETB: the Gathering decks sweat the Torpor Orb and just go ham when it gets blown up. We can certainly continue playing the game until we draw the Sliver, Return to Dust, or Utter End.
As for other non-creature permanents, I'm waiting for the day that they print a white Reclamation Sage. Until that happens, you can play creatures like Leonin Relic-Warder if artifacts are giving you trouble or War Priest of Thune for enchantments. We don't have many ways to interact with Lands - maybe finding room for a Strip Mine would be beneficial, but I don't really like having too many colorless lands because our color requirements end up being pretty high.
I wanted to chronicle my experiences playing this deck for a few reasons. I don't see a lot of conversation about Athreos and I think he's an absolute blast to play, even if he has his weaknesses. Since he was spoiled, I got really excited about trying to make him work in EDH. It started out as a Shirei clone with Ad Nauseam and a bunch of one-drops but eventually that got scrapped and turned into this. I'm not going to claim that it's good. This is probably my favorite deck to play at lower-power tables, though, and it really appeals to my desire to play bad cards. It's like Glissa in that respect. If there's any deck that teaches players that life is a finite resource, it's this one.
Enough rambles, here's a decklist:
3 Athreos, God of Passage
Creatures (35):
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Qarsi High Priest
1 Thoughtpicker Witch
1 Thrull Parasite
1 Viscera Seer
1 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Blood Artist
2 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Wall of Omens
3 Big Game Hunter
3 Bone Shredder
3 Burnished Hart
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Grim Haruspex
3 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
3 Kor Sanctifiers
3 Merciless Executioner
3 Necrotic Sliver
3 Ophiomancer
4 Agent of Erebos
4 Angel of Finality
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Vulturous Aven
5 Archon of Justice
5 Karmic Guide
5 Reveillark
5 Shriekmaw
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
6 Magister of Worth
6 Sun Titan
7 Angel of Despair
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Charcoal Diamond
2 Marble Diamond
2 Orzhov Signet
Enchantments (10):
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Tortured Existence
3 Attrition
3 Infernal Tribute
3 Mind Slash
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Underworld Connections
4 Grave Pact
5 Dictate of Erebos
Instants (3):
4 Return to Dust
4 Utter End
0 Wake the Dead
Sorceries (9):
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Diabolic Intent
3 Victimize
4 Damnation
4 Day of Judgement
4 Wrath of God
8 Decree of Pain
0 Exsanguinate
0 Debt to the Deathless
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 High Market
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Phyrexian Tower
10 Plains
1 Scrubland
10 Swamp
1 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Deck Strategy:
This is a grindy, attrition-based control deck with a bleeder element. The idea is pretty simple. Play a bunch of dudes with ETB/LTB abilities. Sacrifice them. Recur them. Profit. Extort adds up damage across the table (and keeps you alive) while you bury your opponents under CA and wrap up with an Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless. Athreos Commander damage is also a somewhat viable win-con in this deck. I've seen a lot of situations where I can play a wrath and then re-play enough dudes to turn on devotion and swing in. We have a lot of enchantments that give high devotion as well.
Because Athreos is a card that gives your opponents a choice, most players will tell you that he's bad (a la Browbeat). While I mostly agree that cards that give your opponent choices are bad, I feel like Athreos is the exception that proves the rule. It just makes playing him a little difficult. If you don't like politics, this definitely isn't the deck for you, but at the same time... I don't really play politics, either. I like to think of it more that we're making our opponents' choices for them. We have to create a situation where giving us our creatures back is actually the best option for them (or at least, it seems like it). From my own experiences playing the deck, here are my observations on how to make the possible:
Let's take a look at specific card choices.
Creatures:
Artifacts:
Enchantments:
Instants
Sorceries
The relevant lands are pretty self-explanatory. I love Weathered Wayfinder packages, though, so if you have some favorite nonbasics that would fit in here please suggest them.
This deck hasn't gone through a lot of revisions since I made it, so it may be a little rough. I'd love some feedback, especially with regards to bad cards I could cut and more bad cards I could add. Athreos is a pretty unique Commander, and I think he has a place in EDH, despite his faults.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Also, I'd think about replacing Agent of Erebos with Grim Guardian, and cutting Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter for Angel of Despair, since it fits with the theme of your deck better.
All in all though, I like what this deck is trying to do.
- Children of Korlis. Never really did enough. Swings often get big enough that this needs to be Kami to actually not die. Doesn't stop Triumph of the Hordes or Blightsteel either. It's cute with Reclamation or Erebos, but ultimately not good enough.
+ Qarsi High Priest. Testing as another one-drop sac outlet. Haven't drawn it yet, so no definitive comments as of yet. Has to tap, but Manifest seems pretty good with Athreos. Even if the card isn't a creature, it can still return to your hand with Athreos (I checked).
- High Priest of Penance. In the end, a few too many hoops to jump through for Vindicate.
- Suture Priest. The Blood Artist impression was too poor, unfortunately.
- Withered Wretch. Enough redundancy of this effect with the two ETB creatures.
- Emeria, the Sky Ruin. Never managed to turn it on. There's no such thing as Plains version of Urborg, unfortunately.
+ Bojuka Bog. To soften the blow of taking out WW.
- Moriok Replica. Testing other draw options that don't require an activation cost.
+ Hallowed Spiritkeeper. In a perfect world, we'd never have guys in our graveyard because they're all in our hand. IRL, though, I've very rarely seen him make less than 3-4 tokens, which makes him a better Thrinax. Sometime's he's just a blowout army-in-a-can. Pretty impressed so far.
+ Merciless Executioner. Functional Fleshbag #2. I'm not in love with this effect, but I don't see a ton of hexproof Commanders locally. It's probably a necessity.
+ Disciple of Bolas. There aren't a lot of big creatures in here, but even draw 2 + gain 2 is pretty solid for an ETB.
+ Vulturous Aven. Like Disciple but probably worse. Haven't drawn it yet. This is the slot Replica has a shot at taking back.
- Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter. Not a bad card by any means, but my creatures don't tend to have a ton of power, and this is ETB: The Gathering after all.
+ Angel of Despair. Was briefly Overseer of the Damned until I re-read the above comment and came to the conclusion that whacking anything is significantly better.
- Spirit Bonds. The deck is pretty tight on mana (well, white mana anyhow) and the indestructible wasn't usually worth it.
- Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. The weenie plan basically never happens.
- Liliana Vess. Bought a paper copy of D-Tutes so my IRL deck can stop being bad.
+ Diabolic Intent. D-Tutes #2 with an Athreos trigger attached.
+ Demonic Tutor. The realest of deals.
+ Wake the Dead. Timing restriction be damned, this card is crazy. Re-use like five ETB triggers, then burn someone for 15 unless they want me to get it all back. New
favoritesecond favorite card in the deck (#Rangers4Days)Noticed my 2-drop slot is lacking and my updates upped the overall curve slightly. Looking for some curve-slashing cuts and more options in the 2 slot for dudes.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
I have a similar Athreos deck online, and it's a blast to play. Think I might take a leaf out of your book and lower the curve. Mine is filled with W/B fatties and I'm having a hard time casting more than one a turn.
I recommend Sidisi, Undead Vizier in there though, sometimes you cast her twice and get all the value.
u/ThisRedRock
Yeah, Sidisi is going in the next time I buy cards. She was pre-ordering at like 4x her current price so I was waiting 'till she settled. I have no doubt she'll be an absolute slam-dunk. In the meantime, I'll get a few more games in to figure out what to cut for her.
I'm not a super big fan of the Shadowborn package, but Athreos is probably one of the best Commanders for it (with the competish being Shirei). Conspiracy is a neat call, opening up tutoring for some white creatures (Avacyn seems like a great choice) probably pushes B/W over mono-B. I'm not going to lie, I'd dig a deck that can go all in on Ranger and stuff like Proclamation of Rebirth or Return to the Ranks. Stuff that I wish had more value in here.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Though my favorite part of the deck was Altar of Dementia, a fun political combo card that could fit into any Atheros deck if the deck also has a way to cast a creature for free like Edgewalker. All you need to do is convince an opponent to never pay 3 life (or target someone that cannot afford to pay 3 life) and return the creature to your hand so you can mill another player's entire library in one turn. The pieces of this combo are easy to tutor for in these colors and cheap to cast, it is a great way to deal with players that use generals like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind who can combo out without warning.
If you're looking for a more aggressive take, I would suggest Carrion Feeder (I value permanent buffs much higher than temporary ones, especially in the case of base 1/1s or 2/2s), Flesh Carver (not free, but provides much more value), or Fallen Angel (if your goal is to hit for a lot of damage, evasion is invaluable).
Draft my Peasant Cube.
While I go for a Cleric tribal route (no Shadowborn Apostles btw), here are some suggestions to think about:
Jet Medallion/Pearl Medallion: Great, if you want to chain cheap die-triggers together...
Apprentice Necromancer and to a lesser extent Doomed Necromancer: I prefer for tribal reasons Doomed Necromancer, but overall seems Apprentice Necromancer better.
Academy Rector: You want him dead anyways.
Dark Prophecy: Seems better than Infernal Tribute, even though the latter is a sac-outlet.
Fiend Hunter: Sometimes mediocre, sometimes he smites evil in god-mode.
Other than that: How has card draw been for you? It seems to me that I'm always running out of hand cards in my deck. And do you draw often enough into Cabal Coffers to make Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless worthwhile?
Finally, Vampiric Rites: Yes or no for you?
My opinion of it so far is that it's the best card in the deck, yeah.
I'm not really a fan of the medallions. If you're casting two cards in their colors per turn, then they outpace something like Mind Stone. Towards the end of the game, that might be possible, but I also think there are plenty of turns where that just doesn't happen. Especially in a two-color deck.
That actually looks pretty interesting. It's a good number of Athreos triggers, to be sure. However, having to come down and wait a turn to tap feels slow. I can afford to wait the first time I cast him, but people let him come back to my hand, and I play him again, and have to wait again... it starts to feel like a lot of wasted time. I'm not sure I don't just prefer Phyrexian Delver for another direct-to-battlefield reanimate.
I should really bite the bullet and pick one up. I agree that it would be nuts here.
I should probably test it. The mandatory life loss kind of puts me off it, though. It will either kill me or accelerate me into a win before it can. Figuring out which... yeah, testing.
Also think I might have to find room for him. He's great with any sac outlet (though explaining that interaction can be a pain), and I've been kind of disappointed in Bone Shredder and Shriekmaw's non-black, non-artifact restrictions. Not that they're bad cards, but it might be good to diversify.
Keeping up a full hand can sometimes be difficult. I typically mulligan for two things - Urborg/Coffers or a way to get it, and some sort of card advantage engine. For us, that can be as simple as Wall of Omens as not a lot of people will take a bolt to keep you off a cantrip. That said, it's still totally possible for someone to ruin your game by just taking 3 for every trigger. That's why I think picking the correct target for Athreos triggers is the best way to keep up card advantage in the deck. We need to recognize the player who - whether it's because they're getting low on life, they don't care about our removal dudes, or they don't recognize/care about our game plan - is most likely to give us things back.
Weathered Wayfarer is the all-star here. I honestly don't think I've lost a game where I saw Wayfarer in my opener. I also have Ranger to grab him. Outside of that, I've even been tempted to jam an Expedition Map in here because those lands are so important. I do wish there were more ways to fetch nonbasics in B/W but that seems like something of a lost cause.
By the time I'm trying to win with Exsanguinate, though, I find that I've usually found a way to grab Urborg/Coffers. Also, the number of times I can set up Coffers with someone else's Urborg is much higher than one might think.
Absolutely yes. It seems straight-up better than Infernal Tribute, so that will probably be the swap for me unless I start feeling underwhelmed by another card.
Elesh Norn would probably be great. I've been surprised by the number of times I can just turn my cheap dudes sideways for some free damage so I can imagine a resolved Norn being a scary thing. She also a good hoser.
I don't think Pontiff of Blight is necessary. I'm pretty satisfied with my Extort guys and I don't (with the exception of having Coffers in play) typically have so much mana that I feel like I can afford extorting a spell 3-4 times. That said, I don't think he's bad by any means and I like extort as a win condition so if you want to try him, go for it and let me know if he's better than I think.
Usually I fire off Exsanguinate at X=12-18, off of Coffers and whatnot. More with Crypt Ghast but that's the dream and not something that happens every game. Usually by late in the game, that's enough to take someone out, the life swing is huge, and simply by virtue of my opponents being at low life totals I get free returns with Athreos which usually seals the game.
I haven't had a lot of trouble with countermagic. I think "true control" is not very popular in EDH right now - there are not a lot of decks that like to pass turn holding up mana so they can 1-for-1 somebody. More people should play more counterspells, but I haven't run into a lot that do. Usually, Athreos isn't priority number one for most opponents, so if you see someone holding up double blue simply make a less-threatening play and let the counter hit someone else. EDH players are somewhat self-focused so I find that if they're holding up mana for a counterspell they'll counter something just to keep things going according to their plan. Just don't play into it.
That said, if you're in an environment where people play more counterspells (or play them with a little more finesse than the people I've encountered), there's unfortunately not a lot of ways to combat that in B/W. Adding a Grand Abolisher to the deck would be my first suggestion, followed by Boseiju, Who Shelters All which is conveniently fetchable by Wayfarer.
Torpor Orb can be a real headache, but it hasn't been a problem for me for a couple reasons. First, people love playing ETB: the Gathering, and I think the large majority of people are playing decks that would be hurt by Torpor Orb rather than decks that are comfortable playing it. Secondly, this deck plays better under Torpor Orb than you might think. It does require having the right cards - there are certainly hands that would be absolutely worthless with Orb out. However none of our sac outlets, Grim Haruspex, Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Extort creatures, Necrotic Sliver, or Athreos himself are hurt in any way by Orb. Furthermore, decks that play Orb typically aren't terribly aggressive - most of what we lose out on (ETB removal) is fine, let the Orb player deal with the now-vanilla fatties that the G players are dropping, and, conversely, let the ETB: the Gathering decks sweat the Torpor Orb and just go ham when it gets blown up. We can certainly continue playing the game until we draw the Sliver, Return to Dust, or Utter End.
As for other non-creature permanents, I'm waiting for the day that they print a white Reclamation Sage. Until that happens, you can play creatures like Leonin Relic-Warder if artifacts are giving you trouble or War Priest of Thune for enchantments. We don't have many ways to interact with Lands - maybe finding room for a Strip Mine would be beneficial, but I don't really like having too many colorless lands because our color requirements end up being pretty high.
Draft my Peasant Cube.