Yea your list looks fine. Some of the cards I think can be upgraded you can defiantly run high tide.my uploads are taking forever and I'm leaving Tommorrow morning so I'll post a major update late tonite or early tomorrow. I have all the videos shot but like even 1/3rd of my deck tech takes like 12+ hours to upload. Your list has very strong cards but has lots of room for improvement as well.
Waste not is incredibly powerful with those cards and quite playable in certain builds I however don't run a ton of cards it combos with and typically tutor ad nauseum which it has no use with it combine that with the fact that notion thief has stronger synergy anyway it's a fairly bad card in my shell as it's only good with hands I want to tutor wheel/ windfall Or have wheel/windfall. Also unfortunatly I could not get my stuff from my guide uploaded today your just going to have to wait until
I get back next week my internet has been out since yesterday and now I'm at the airport ;(.
Waste not is incredibly powerful with those cards and quite playable in certain builds I however don't run a ton of cards it combos with and typically tutor ad nauseum which it has no use with it combine that with the fact that notion thief has stronger synergy anyway it's a fairly bad card in my shell as it's only good with hands I want to tutor wheel/ windfall Or have wheel/windfall. Also unfortunatly I could not get my stuff from my guide uploaded today your just going to have to wait until
I get back next week my internet has been out since yesterday and now I'm at the airport ;(.
I'd like to expand on this:
The only way that Waste Not is potentially better than Thief is that you can occasionally net mana off the discard wheels.
However, its black mana and this is mainly a blue deck. Otherwise you would run Bubbling Muck.
Thief has the much better benefit of stripping opponents hands. Giving you free reign to storm off.
I love Thief. He is auto include. Waste Not is good if you can find an opening.
Yes I have looked at your list I think I can help you improve it but I won't be back in town until Wednesday . I was upset this morning when I left Cincinnati because my internet was down and I could not post my update but after winning 1200 bucks in 1 day I ding care one bit at the moment. The list looks fairly solid if you have a skype you can send me your skype name and I can talk to you personally when I get home. My skype is moxnix222
MY guide is close to done it should only be a few more days i have tested the deck many times through the process and found Tezzeret The Seeker was just to slow and win more in this deck to often. Hurkyl's Recall has been a great card in testing serving as both a mana ritual and a great tool against players jamming mana rocks on the field as i can wheel the card away go off when they thought they had mana or simple make a tempo play to go off. That and everything else i tested was weak other than simply adding more control and this gives me a control slot and a mana slot in one card.
I am glad to see you are still working on this. My deck is still together but many of the folks in my meta are not this competitive so I have been running Selvala mostly as of late. I still have to find a Mox Opal, but thus far nobody wants to trade one.
[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
I watch your videos and its like magic, but when I try to play it, I run into things like Uril-Enchantress eating my face by turn 4, and another guy casting extra turns over and over until he Jace's everyone to death, I can't seem to pilot this thing very well.
I know its time consuming, but I would love to see more gameplay videos, especially against other combo/denial decks.
Um, you mention using ponder/preordain in your main pile isntead of probe because even if they are more expensive, you cant scoop out of it. You can target yourself with probe. Making it a free nonrisk (well 2 life) cantrip.
Um, you mention using ponder/preordain in your main pile isntead of probe because even if they are more expensive, you cant scoop out of it. You can target yourself with probe. Making it a free nonrisk (well 2 life) cantrip.
I don't think you understand how much I love you right now.
Edit : yea I'm going to say that's about 7-10 loses just from getting scooped not knowing that.
I watch your videos and its like magic, but when I try to play it, I run into things like Uril-Enchantress eating my face by turn 4, and another guy casting extra turns over and over until he Jace's everyone to death, I can't seem to pilot this thing very well.
I know its time consuming, but I would love to see more gameplay videos, especially against other combo/denial decks.
..
The thing with this kind of deck, it pretty much requires practice. You can read strategy and watch videos, but you learn so much more from playing it. I spend hours just goldfishing my storm deck and I learn new things every time. Try to think through all the different results of your plays and take your time. I often stop in the middle of goldfishing to look up particular rules or tricks. A combo/storm list is the perfect deck for extensive self analysis and I love it for that.
Not that videos wont help, but don't expect to learn everything right away.
Ill upload a couple more videos tonite finish off the deck tech with part 1 and get a gameplay video up it just seems to hose my internet while im uploading. Just played a 6 player game keep urborg tomb fetchland >steam vents just because the hand has necro top deck a lim duls tutor R tower turn 3 necro for 22 turn 4 i am choked on blue mana with a seething song and lots of colorless i go non blue land tap ring > vault > monolith > KEY > Dimir Signet > Seething song > demonic tutor > frantnic search > Cov bounce all artifacts sac 4 lands > recast all > notion theif >labman > windfall. the line for me came fast i knew what i had alot of "colorless Mana" looked for a line and found one for 6UUUB i had a line whit tidespout skipping seething song then everflowing chalice into infinite storm mana off signet ring crypt loop into mystical + cantrip. (not taking this line on mtgo lol) once you play the deck enough you will see your lines
All deck tech videos are now uploaded there is a link before individual card discussion to a list for my full deck tech its about 2 hours long but has some very good information about the deck
Well I just looked over some of the play videos I just uploaded and despite jeleva 4 being 1v1 games I felt like from
A speaking standpoint it was the smoothest yet so I'm
Getting a little better at shooting these it helps that I used replays instead if live play as I'm far less distracted. I wanted to note the line I says I missed in the game vs azami was that I could have used chain of vapor net another blue mana thus unlocking mind over matter then using it for tide spout into Infinte tendrils I got lucky and still won on turn but that's the line I should have taken in that game.
Edit: Puzzle in the video seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o54bJkzcPig at 11:07 you see my opening hand including draw
Imperial seal, Reliquary tower, Demonic Tutor , Pact of Negation, Misty rainforest, Island, Polluted Delta, Night's Whisper
There are a astounding number of choices with being able to curve imperial seal into demonic tutor. However there was another line that won the game on turn 4 in fact harder what was it? Also there is a line that wins the game turn 3 that we can see right now what is it? Bonus Question -Why do you thinkI choose the line i did over those 2 lines?
Turn 3 win:
1.) Misty rainforest -> Underground sea, Imperial Seal-> LED
2.) Polluted delta -> Watery grave, Play LED, Demonic Tutor - Crack LED in response for BBB ->Doomsday, play Doomsday
Pile:
Gush
Night's Whisper
LED
Lab Maniac
Probe
3.) Tap lands for UB, Gush bouncing both lands, play LED, Night's Whisper - crack LED in response for UUU, cast Lab Man, Probe paying 2 life, win
Other Turn 4
1.) Misty rainforest -> Underground sea, Imperial Seal-> Dark Ritual
2.) Polluted delta -> Watery grave, Demonic Tutor -> Ad Nauseum
3.) Island, EOT Dark Ritual + Ad Naueseum
4.) ....Win?
Didn't play either line because 0 protection (Discarded pact in turn 3 win, can't use pact for protection in turn 4 win)
Are there any adaptations you would make if there's someone in your group who has a high counter density? I think I made an arch enemy of sorts in my group lol :s
Your doomsday attempt is very close but its better to get dark ritual not led and use the exact same pile on turn 3 without having to pass the turn and SCREAM HOLD OPEN YOUR REMOVAL/ COUNTERS instead we now have the pact for if they want to counter the doomsday itself. I did not take the line because it was a non protected led and i lost my pact correct. When my hand was so good thhere is no reason to be greedy and go all in
The next line is just bad using ritual over sol ring makes no sense whether I have a pact of negation or not. But it gets to the reason I choose the line in the end and that's dark ritual lines are more all in. The line I was looking for here was a turn 3 Necropotence with tower up off dark ritual then drawing 30 or more and knowing for sure we are going off the reason i did not choose this line was 2 fold 1 i still have to pass the turn at a fairly low life total and with everyones undivided attention but more importantly i wont be going off on turn so if someone did counter my necro I cant use pact and im boned. going sol ring into AN lets me pick a time everyone is tapped out wins on the same turn and i can pay my pact trigger and then still win. So it is the best line in the worst case scenario and even worse say someone then counter spells AN overtop of us casting pact on the first one we still can pay our trigger and have 2 more mana on the board than we did with a dark ritual line. So the TLDR is "because Sol Ring is OP"
Edit ; It dawned on me that my response you was to hasty. The doomsday line is differnt than yours I didn't even look back at it the cantrip
In hand is nights whisper
The line > tutor ritual > tutor doomsday > cast DR cast DD > nights whisper > gush + probe > gush into > led Labman > led + probe > yawgwin > led > Labman > probe
That's really good hand
Mana crypt > sol ring > land > scroll > grab mystical tutor > opal > EOT grab recurring insight> t2 insight. Would be the line I take there. Then you get a land drop and your at mana barrier with minds desire and a free draw 6/7 coming.
So I made a single change to the Decklist it's not updated in the OP yet
- Dark Confidant
+ Vandalblast
There are a number if reasons i made this change and by that I mean a ton... So instead of telling you I want you to tell me why this is a solid swap. To the guys who have been running this deck why is this change good?
Those are all correct. There are more reasons but those are the main ones. Other reason include my deck being soft against winter orb strategies. Mostly it's because bob is just bad anywhere but in my opening hand sitting next to a mox Diamond . Good assessment.
I guess I'll elaborate a little
Bob is a creature when my decks almost blanks spot removal do aginst controlling decks trying to keep me down it sucks
With jeleva in my command zone Hes pretty much always a bad top deck. Aginst combo he's too slow to race. The damage is actualy relivant.
The reason I choose vandalblast over REB or fellwar stone or serum vision is mostly what you said killing a turn 1 crypt/ ring / vault is very important as these plays let even weaker decks compete with us which is very bad. Vandalblast is good at almost every phase in the game in a format where artifacts are the best permanents In the format. And one if this decks worst matchups is winter orb counter spell decks. I'm addition with how I'm built now with tins of refill to give me resilancy bob is just way worse than he has ever been.
I like this deck and the very thorough write up. I play a RUG storm deck with Maelstrom Wanderer that is very different from this. I guess I probably shouldn't even call it a storm deck since the only storm card I play is mind's desire, which I'm considering cutting because I always forget to keep track of storm count lol. Basically I just play lots of ramp, time warps, and draw spells; oh and this neat card called Gaea's Cradle. Anyhow I realize creatures are pretty bad in your deck, but have you considered playing Guttersnipe as another backup plan? Also what are your thoughts on Thirst for Knowledge?
Guttersnipe is not something I need here. You could replace a win condition with him but I don't see him being better than tyrant tendrils grapeshot or Labman. The most reasonable swap would be tyrant since there are benefits to running no 8 drops but It's just not as good. Thirst for knowledge is a fine especially since budget lists missing the expensive cards typically run more cmc 2 rocks. That being said I have no budget and compared to my 3 drops it's not good enough. Digging only 3 is something I can do for 1 with ponder and not even half the reach of a wheel at the same cost. Instant speed is not that important in this deck. I like that card more in control build heavy on rocks in general. So I guess it's not a "bad" card but it's defiantly not a "broken" card and if a card cost 3 or more in this deck It better be brokenly good. I love minds desire in slower combo decks as well espically since your games lasting 2-3 more turns means you get more options. I love mana flare + time warp combo decks they have a similar feel
Not good enough. The effect us not unplayable in a budget list but it's way to narrow. I would play twin cast first if you wanted something like that but as it stands this Decklist is incredibly tight and there are about 20 cards I would be adding before fork. I know some people who like reiterate but I think that's even worse if I have 10 mana to but back a turnabout then I've already won 95% of the time and it's not good enough outside of copying Something during hightide.
Sidenote : uploaded 2 more games 1 is about 50 minutes (3 videos) 2v2 with commentary I take a bad hand just because it looks fun to use and I want to see how it goes (1 land and opal as only mana) . I play last and miss a land drop find myself forced to make a control play before I want to. This game was cool because the wanderer guy gets a very good hand and u end up staring down a consecrated sphinx on turn 5 and make the decision to go all in on a desperate line.
The other game has no commentary is 10 minutes I was playing for fun and opened a hand with Usea 2 islands led frantic search and turn about and draw into time spiral on my 3rd turn welcome to legacy spiral tide lol.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I've messed around with it and it can really be a ridiculous combo.
I get back next week my internet has been out since yesterday and now I'm at the airport ;(.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I'd like to expand on this:
The only way that Waste Not is potentially better than Thief is that you can occasionally net mana off the discard wheels.
However, its black mana and this is mainly a blue deck. Otherwise you would run Bubbling Muck.
Thief has the much better benefit of stripping opponents hands. Giving you free reign to storm off.
I love Thief. He is auto include. Waste Not is good if you can find an opening.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Thank you for including other resources that go into storm and broken-ness.
I know its time consuming, but I would love to see more gameplay videos, especially against other combo/denial decks.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I don't think you understand how much I love you right now.
Edit : yea I'm going to say that's about 7-10 loses just from getting scooped not knowing that.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
The thing with this kind of deck, it pretty much requires practice. You can read strategy and watch videos, but you learn so much more from playing it. I spend hours just goldfishing my storm deck and I learn new things every time. Try to think through all the different results of your plays and take your time. I often stop in the middle of goldfishing to look up particular rules or tricks. A combo/storm list is the perfect deck for extensive self analysis and I love it for that.
Not that videos wont help, but don't expect to learn everything right away.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
A speaking standpoint it was the smoothest yet so I'm
Getting a little better at shooting these it helps that I used replays instead if live play as I'm far less distracted. I wanted to note the line I says I missed in the game vs azami was that I could have used chain of vapor net another blue mana thus unlocking mind over matter then using it for tide spout into Infinte tendrils I got lucky and still won on turn but that's the line I should have taken in that game.
Edit: Puzzle in the video seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o54bJkzcPig at 11:07 you see my opening hand including draw
Imperial seal, Reliquary tower, Demonic Tutor , Pact of Negation, Misty rainforest, Island, Polluted Delta, Night's Whisper
There are a astounding number of choices with being able to curve imperial seal into demonic tutor. However there was another line that won the game on turn 4 in fact harder what was it? Also there is a line that wins the game turn 3 that we can see right now what is it? Bonus Question -Why do you thinkI choose the line i did over those 2 lines?
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Turn 3 win:
1.) Misty rainforest -> Underground sea, Imperial Seal-> LED
2.) Polluted delta -> Watery grave, Play LED, Demonic Tutor - Crack LED in response for BBB ->Doomsday, play Doomsday
Pile:
Gush
Night's Whisper
LED
Lab Maniac
Probe
3.) Tap lands for UB, Gush bouncing both lands, play LED, Night's Whisper - crack LED in response for UUU, cast Lab Man, Probe paying 2 life, win
Other Turn 4
1.) Misty rainforest -> Underground sea, Imperial Seal-> Dark Ritual
2.) Polluted delta -> Watery grave, Demonic Tutor -> Ad Nauseum
3.) Island, EOT Dark Ritual + Ad Naueseum
4.) ....Win?
Didn't play either line because 0 protection (Discarded pact in turn 3 win, can't use pact for protection in turn 4 win)
Are there any adaptations you would make if there's someone in your group who has a high counter density? I think I made an arch enemy of sorts in my group lol :s
The next line is just bad using ritual over sol ring makes no sense whether I have a pact of negation or not. But it gets to the reason I choose the line in the end and that's dark ritual lines are more all in. The line I was looking for here was a turn 3 Necropotence with tower up off dark ritual then drawing 30 or more and knowing for sure we are going off the reason i did not choose this line was 2 fold 1 i still have to pass the turn at a fairly low life total and with everyones undivided attention but more importantly i wont be going off on turn so if someone did counter my necro I cant use pact and im boned. going sol ring into AN lets me pick a time everyone is tapped out wins on the same turn and i can pay my pact trigger and then still win. So it is the best line in the worst case scenario and even worse say someone then counter spells AN overtop of us casting pact on the first one we still can pay our trigger and have 2 more mana on the board than we did with a dark ritual line. So the TLDR is "because Sol Ring is OP"
Edit ; It dawned on me that my response you was to hasty. The doomsday line is differnt than yours I didn't even look back at it the cantrip
In hand is nights whisper
The line > tutor ritual > tutor doomsday > cast DR cast DD > nights whisper > gush + probe > gush into > led Labman > led + probe > yawgwin > led > Labman > probe
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Mana crypt > sol ring > land > scroll > grab mystical tutor > opal > EOT grab recurring insight> t2 insight. Would be the line I take there. Then you get a land drop and your at mana barrier with minds desire and a free draw 6/7 coming.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
- Dark Confidant
+ Vandalblast
There are a number if reasons i made this change and by that I mean a ton... So instead of telling you I want you to tell me why this is a solid swap. To the guys who have been running this deck why is this change good?
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I guess I'll elaborate a little
Bob is a creature when my decks almost blanks spot removal do aginst controlling decks trying to keep me down it sucks
With jeleva in my command zone Hes pretty much always a bad top deck. Aginst combo he's too slow to race. The damage is actualy relivant.
The reason I choose vandalblast over REB or fellwar stone or serum vision is mostly what you said killing a turn 1 crypt/ ring / vault is very important as these plays let even weaker decks compete with us which is very bad. Vandalblast is good at almost every phase in the game in a format where artifacts are the best permanents In the format. And one if this decks worst matchups is winter orb counter spell decks. I'm addition with how I'm built now with tins of refill to give me resilancy bob is just way worse than he has ever been.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
In search of a foil french Dromar, the Banisher, pm me if you have one you want to part with, also foil Stratadon's.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Sidenote : uploaded 2 more games 1 is about 50 minutes (3 videos) 2v2 with commentary I take a bad hand just because it looks fun to use and I want to see how it goes (1 land and opal as only mana) . I play last and miss a land drop find myself forced to make a control play before I want to. This game was cool because the wanderer guy gets a very good hand and u end up staring down a consecrated sphinx on turn 5 and make the decision to go all in on a desperate line.
The other game has no commentary is 10 minutes I was playing for fun and opened a hand with Usea 2 islands led frantic search and turn about and draw into time spiral on my 3rd turn welcome to legacy spiral tide lol.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429