So I have to ask about the led interaction that was happening in the explaining of how to turn 1 win. Was this before lions eye was edited to say only when you could play an instant? As I have been researching it and it bends your hand before you can use any of the mana unless your using it after yw. Like I could crack to float mana and them cast nights eye to draw. It just seemed like some explaining was missing after the dooms day.
Just wondering how you use it in the deck now after the change other then the way storm 60 card decks do when you crack led after casting a tutor . Then using the mana floated then bending the hand before you get the tutors card.
The same way not sure exactly what your referring too but if it's the mull to 3 t1 win I cracked it to the draw 7 for BBB. It's auto include 6 mana with yawg win lines. efficient DD piles black lotus with tutors or large draw spells hell I've used it to cast jeleva before
so how do you use it to cast a spell though as it states you can only use it when casting an instant so if you were to use it and try to cast a spell you wouldn't get the mana until the spell has been bend to it.
you have an example writen up that states you post doomsday crack petal and crack LED to cantrip?
but again you can't use LED to cast anything out of your hand so I was wondering how you did that or if there was a way to instantly before the spell makes you draw you crack LED as you would have 1 mana and a lotus petal so you could have enough for nights whisper.
I was just trying to follow the break down of steps and it just seemed like something was missing I had gotten a judge to look at it but with the way it is written he stated that you either thought or think that you can cast something with LED from your hand or you thought tr think that it draws you cards. now this is just from how we were reading it and I have seen some of the youtube videos were your on MTGO and it will make sure you do all the tiggers correctly so I was sure the first time you tried that on MTGO you'd know that there was a misstake somewhere but I never saw a video with you using it so I didnt know how you were using it within your interactions.
Im not saying it is incorrect Im just trying to figure out the correct steps to make sure I dont **** it up if I build this deck I have almost all the cards I would just have to purchase like grapeshot and doomsday.
You can break led with any spell on the stack. If that spell in any way puts cards into your hand you can use the mana to cast those cards. So if I break led with ponder on the stack whatever it draws I can use leds mana to cast
In case you are still confused, what they are referring to is casting a spell, then holding priority to crack LED. For example, cast Demonic Tutor > hold priority, crack LED. In this scenario, LED resolves first giving you 3 mana and binning your hand, then Demonic Tutor resolves, putting a card into your hand.
This mechanic opens up tons of lines like: D Tutor>crack LED for 3 black>Yawg's Will>cast LED from yard and crack it.
Or like the example above: with your Wheel of Fortune/Time Spiral/etc on the stack, hold priority and crack LED. You get the mana, then draw from the wheel.
Cracking LED with Doomsday on the stack is still a viable option if you have on board draw to open the pile - i.e Sensei's Divining Top.
Thank you, this is how I thought it would worked. How about gush or a draw card could I crack led in respond to the draw card on the stack and get the mana and then draw?
Thank you, this is how I thought it would worked. How about gush or a draw card could I crack led in respond to the draw card on the stack and get the mana and then draw?
As Moxnix said: yes. To delve into it a bit deeper: you can hold priority and respond to any spell you cast/ability you activate/ability you trigger, unless the spell has split second. The list Moxnix uses at the moment has no split second spells so, using his list, you can respond to anything you do by holding priority and cracking LED.
Hi there, I'm interested in building edh storm. My one big question, of the expensive cards in the primer, are there any the deck just can't function without? My group isn't super competitive so i dont need to be consistently winning turn 6 or anything, but dont want to budget it into oblivion
You can make a storm deck super cheap. The required enabling cards that are considered valuable/costly are the big-draw spells like wheel of fortune/time spiral, and are not too high in price.
The actually expensive cards are the low-cmc ramp (mox diamond/lion's eye diamond), or low-cmc tutors (imperial seal/grim tutor). You can find substitute cards in their place, but this is at the cost of the decks speed/performance.
Timetwister is really good in this deck since it needs such a high-volume of large-draw spells, but it can also be swapped out for less optimal and budget options like reforge the soul/magus of the wheel.
Do keep in to consideration that by increasing the average mana-cost of these cards you do impact the average amount you can draw off of ad nauseam.
Leovold is an excellent new commander and i have already played a deck with him at the helm and against him. While playing against a deck with a hatebear in the command zone is not something that excites me its no worse than having to play against grand arbiter Augustine or something like that. I play counters I play cards like red blasts that can deal with a resolved problematic creature like leovold I have bounce spells I have deluge and grapeshot that happen to be excellent vs mana dork strategies my deck has a very good defensive suite that can handle almost any deck and its not be coincidence i have quite a few cards that can deal with problematic commanders. The green splash being weaker and lack of true dig in my mind makes it a strictly worse deck to use for storm but its still not a bad deck. Like zur the card is very strong and you cna take the deck in any direction you want but I would most likely and in fact already have used him in a much heavier control based shell using his interaction with already powerful wheel spells to mind twist the table. i feel like when your using a general who does not give you gas you need to be playing more draw engines and the amount of protection you want for him as a combo piece makes control a natural choice. I do not see myself changing my core deck choices form what they are now as i have tested it so much im very confident in my choices, to answer the second most asked question behind what do i play on a budget YES my deck is up to date. If you howver know he will be in your meta just like anything else the control slots are less "core" and meta dependent where you might choose to play a card like mystic remora in a meta you know to be 4 storm decks you can always play more ways of killing that card in your control slots. Unsubstantiate for instance was pretty good in testing while i would not cut the standard counterspell vs leovold you could easily decide to trim for instance vandalblast if your not seeing artifact heavy strategies and instead play another card that deal with creatures in its place like the unsubstantiate. However i recommend against over sideboarding if your not sure don't "fix" things this deck can beat anything if at any point you feel you cannot win and need to make sweeping changes against your meta your probably doing something wrong, but if that's the case for whatever reason then you should simply switch decks but i have never had problems beating anyone with this deck and honestly much like Grand arbiter while its not a card you want to see i doubt the other 2 players want to let it resolve either and cards like that tend to die quickly and often and half the time with no effort on your part which is even better. I think its worth mentioning that necro and ad nuaseam dont "draw" cards
So I'm in the middle of building this deck, budget restrictions are making it kinda hard though. So I am running all mana artifacts except for Candleabra, Mox Diamond, and Grim Monolith I added Izzet signet. My question is what would be an ideal land base without zen fetches or ABUR duals. My current list is linked below, any cuts or replacement ideas are welcome as long as they are within a $20 budget or so. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jeleva-storm-work-in-progress-deck/
Ok, this should be an easy auto include to this deck: Dramatic Reversal - 1U - Instant - Untap all nonland perm. you control.
If it said all nonland OR all land permanents, I would agree that it's an auto include. As it stands, if would only serve to untap your artifact mana - which is something - but it's usually not as good as untapping your lands, especially under High Tide. Depending on the quality of the artifacts you control, i.e. Candelabra of Tawnos, the strength of this card increases, but over all it's no Turnabout.
Ok, this should be an easy auto include to this deck: Dramatic Reversal - 1U - Instant - Untap all nonland perm. you control.
If it said all nonland OR all land permanents, I would agree that it's an auto include. As it stands, if would only serve to untap your artifact mana - which is something - but it's usually not as good as untapping your lands, especially under High Tide. Depending on the quality of the artifacts you control, i.e. Candelabra of Tawnos, the strength of this card increases, but over all it's no Turnabout.
First change in a long time. After lots of testing Unsubstantiate makes my 99 it did not take long for me to realize this it did however Take time to pick the correct control card to cut.
- Pact of negation
+ Unsubstantiate
While pact is excellent on the combo turn being useless in the early turns is the main reason it gets cut over cards like Swan song duress or counterspell.
I like this change. Pact of Negation always felt terrible in my openers and Unsubstantiate is basically remand without the draw. Pretty sweet that we can interact with 'Can't be countered' now too.
First change in a long time. After lots of testing Unsubstantiate makes my 99 it did not take long for me to realize this it did however Take time to pick the correct control card to cut.
- Pact of negation
+ Unsubstantiate
While pact is excellent on the combo turn being useless in the early turns is the main reason it gets cut over cards like Swan song duress or counterspell.
Really intriguing. Gonna try this out in my combo deck as well.
Moxnix, have you put any thought to adding G to the decklist with the upcoming release of the 4 colour commanders? It seems like you rarely cast Jeleva, so is a glint-eye list, adding stuff like regrowth, a direction you might move in?
First change in a long time. After lots of testing Unsubstantiate makes my 99 it did not take long for me to realize this it did however Take time to pick the correct control card to cut.
- Pact of negation
+ Unsubstantiate
While pact is excellent on the combo turn being useless in the early turns is the main reason it gets cut over cards like Swan song duress or counterspell.
Really intriguing. Gonna try this out in my combo deck as well.
I've been happy with is in all my Blue storm decks since it came out. It's even better than remand in some cases since it deals with resolved creatures as well. Couple weeks ago I Mind's Desired for 13, got Unsubstanstiate, Mind's for 15, flipped an remand, the Mind's for 30 something - it was ridiculous haha
Moxnix, have you put any thought to adding G to the decklist with the upcoming release of the 4 colour commanders? It seems like you rarely cast Jeleva, so is a glint-eye list, adding stuff like regrowth, a direction you might move in?
No I think you are under valuing Jeleva and overvaluing a splash the makes the mana more awkward for side-grades in card slots. The only way I replace Jeleva with a new 4 color commander is if it is better out of the command zone than jeleva is and has UBR in its colors. When you see me not using it its normally because im stomping weaker decks and don't need too. she sees TONS of play in my paper meta the harder your opponents the more likely you cast jeleva. I just played this game on mtgo https://youtu.be/Lx8VD3RxP7c i was getting teamed and i use jeleva proactively to fight through hate then I wiff massively on my line and she pulls my ass out of the fire in the end. The command zone is broken im not sacing my command zone to play another color making my mana harder just for for regrowth. I would need a card that is better than jeleva to make that change, so it would need to be excellent and honestly read in some way draw cards.
Yes Unsubstantiate has been excellent and i knew for awhile that i wanted it in the 99 I am fairly meticulous though with this deck and wanted to cut the correct card. It has indeed been excellent its versatility makes it an great card at any stage of the game. It hits commanders after they come down including the new and annoying leovold as well as other hate cards out of the command zone IE gran arbiter Teeg and other hate bears. It can tempo counter like remand early without the draw and it can bounce storm spells in the late game as well as hit uncounterable spells its cost is great it pitches to FoW makes blue off mox yea its good, it is the best card I have got since dark petition im very happy to play it in my 99.
Sad to see Pact go. The number of games I've won on turn 1 or 2 because of having Pact in my opener are enough that I think I'll keep it. Having a Pact in hand when you're on a DD line is peace of mind. While it's true that Pact is at its best when you're going off that's what this deck does, and credit to Moxnix, does well. Having another "free" counter opens up a lot of lines that Unsubstantiate doesn't. On the other hand, having another Remand type effect opens up others. Only reps will tell which has more.
I look forward to tales of Mind's Desire into Remand into Mind's Desire into Unsubstantiate, ad nauseam (not the card).
Just wondering how you use it in the deck now after the change other then the way storm 60 card decks do when you crack led after casting a tutor . Then using the mana floated then bending the hand before you get the tutors card.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
you have an example writen up that states you post doomsday crack petal and crack LED to cantrip?
but again you can't use LED to cast anything out of your hand so I was wondering how you did that or if there was a way to instantly before the spell makes you draw you crack LED as you would have 1 mana and a lotus petal so you could have enough for nights whisper.
I was just trying to follow the break down of steps and it just seemed like something was missing I had gotten a judge to look at it but with the way it is written he stated that you either thought or think that you can cast something with LED from your hand or you thought tr think that it draws you cards. now this is just from how we were reading it and I have seen some of the youtube videos were your on MTGO and it will make sure you do all the tiggers correctly so I was sure the first time you tried that on MTGO you'd know that there was a misstake somewhere but I never saw a video with you using it so I didnt know how you were using it within your interactions.
Im not saying it is incorrect Im just trying to figure out the correct steps to make sure I dont **** it up if I build this deck I have almost all the cards I would just have to purchase like grapeshot and doomsday.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
This mechanic opens up tons of lines like: D Tutor>crack LED for 3 black>Yawg's Will>cast LED from yard and crack it.
Or like the example above: with your Wheel of Fortune/Time Spiral/etc on the stack, hold priority and crack LED. You get the mana, then draw from the wheel.
Cracking LED with Doomsday on the stack is still a viable option if you have on board draw to open the pile - i.e Sensei's Divining Top.
Hope this helps!
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
As Moxnix said: yes. To delve into it a bit deeper: you can hold priority and respond to any spell you cast/ability you activate/ability you trigger, unless the spell has split second. The list Moxnix uses at the moment has no split second spells so, using his list, you can respond to anything you do by holding priority and cracking LED.
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
The actually expensive cards are the low-cmc ramp (mox diamond/lion's eye diamond), or low-cmc tutors (imperial seal/grim tutor). You can find substitute cards in their place, but this is at the cost of the decks speed/performance.
Timetwister is really good in this deck since it needs such a high-volume of large-draw spells, but it can also be swapped out for less optimal and budget options like reforge the soul/magus of the wheel.
Do keep in to consideration that by increasing the average mana-cost of these cards you do impact the average amount you can draw off of ad nauseam.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jeleva-storm-work-in-progress-deck/
Dramatic Reversal - 1U - Instant - Untap all nonland perm. you control.
If it said all nonland OR all land permanents, I would agree that it's an auto include. As it stands, if would only serve to untap your artifact mana - which is something - but it's usually not as good as untapping your lands, especially under High Tide. Depending on the quality of the artifacts you control, i.e. Candelabra of Tawnos, the strength of this card increases, but over all it's no Turnabout.
This
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
- Pact of negation
+ Unsubstantiate
While pact is excellent on the combo turn being useless in the early turns is the main reason it gets cut over cards like Swan song duress or counterspell.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
Really intriguing. Gonna try this out in my combo deck as well.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I've been happy with is in all my Blue storm decks since it came out. It's even better than remand in some cases since it deals with resolved creatures as well. Couple weeks ago I Mind's Desired for 13, got Unsubstanstiate, Mind's for 15, flipped an remand, the Mind's for 30 something - it was ridiculous haha
No I think you are under valuing Jeleva and overvaluing a splash the makes the mana more awkward for side-grades in card slots. The only way I replace Jeleva with a new 4 color commander is if it is better out of the command zone than jeleva is and has UBR in its colors. When you see me not using it its normally because im stomping weaker decks and don't need too. she sees TONS of play in my paper meta the harder your opponents the more likely you cast jeleva. I just played this game on mtgo https://youtu.be/Lx8VD3RxP7c i was getting teamed and i use jeleva proactively to fight through hate then I wiff massively on my line and she pulls my ass out of the fire in the end. The command zone is broken im not sacing my command zone to play another color making my mana harder just for for regrowth. I would need a card that is better than jeleva to make that change, so it would need to be excellent and honestly read in some way draw cards.
Yes Unsubstantiate has been excellent and i knew for awhile that i wanted it in the 99 I am fairly meticulous though with this deck and wanted to cut the correct card. It has indeed been excellent its versatility makes it an great card at any stage of the game. It hits commanders after they come down including the new and annoying leovold as well as other hate cards out of the command zone IE gran arbiter Teeg and other hate bears. It can tempo counter like remand early without the draw and it can bounce storm spells in the late game as well as hit uncounterable spells its cost is great it pitches to FoW makes blue off mox yea its good, it is the best card I have got since dark petition im very happy to play it in my 99.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I look forward to tales of Mind's Desire into Remand into Mind's Desire into Unsubstantiate, ad nauseam (not the card).
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429