I'm not sure how I'll organise the decklist, as it is a bit... complicated to order by function:
(I'm calling Oblivion Ring type effects with a ETB remove and LTB return trigger "Nightmare Effect" because the original cards to have them were all Nightmares (Faceless Butcher))
Things to note:
-Don't forget the combo that if the "leaves the battlefield" trigger triggers before the "enters the battlefield" trigger, you get to exile stuff forever.
-Don't be scared to play cycle lands early, you can get them back into the cycle with Crop Rotation, Edge of Autumn, Harrow or even use removal on them.
-I've casted both Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations before. Remember what they do.
-Careful with Creatures that Destroy/Exile stuff on ETB, it's often a mandatory trigger.
-Your goal is not to get Karador on the Board ASAP. You don't use him that much, I don't have the self milling or the Creature count to abuse him early. Just play out your hand, try to get as much card advantage as possible, and when Karador isn't costing all your mana for the turn, cast him, and use him each turn.
-You are built around Karador and Astral Slide, but you don't require either. The deck has plenty of ways of generating card advantage.
-Like most of my decks, this is built around getting incremental advantage, not big powerful jumps from single goodstuff cards.
Skullclamp (It was cut before though, didn't need the draw, I've got 6 creatures that want to self sac, 10 that would want to be fed to skullclamp, and 4 that could but most likely wouldn't want to. + Karador Recursion)
Riftsweeper is really good, because not only can it recur your stuff that's been exiled, but you can also tuck anything that you exile temporarily with Slide or a Nightmare effect.
Also, Fluctuator can be great with any of the Urza's cycling lands.
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Riftsweeper is really good, because not only can it recur your stuff that's been exiled, but you can also tuck anything that you exile temporarily with Slide or a Nightmare effect.
Also, Fluctuator can be great with any of the Urza's cycling lands.
Wow, I didn't realise that, I thought that like Pull from Eternity it put it into the graveyard! It makes it slightly less useful as I have less tutors, but the new functionality is nice.
I'm not sure about Fluctuator. It helps 5 cards in the deck. And I won't really tutor for it. I feel like it wouldn't really pull it's weight.
That is great, I'd like to make a few cuts to include him. I wonder what though. I might want to add skullclamp back in just so the deck relies on Astral Slide and Karador even less.
You might also want to consider running more cycling things. Eternal Dragon isn't a terrible way to trigger multiple times. Decree of Justice is a great combat trick/mana sink. Decree of Pain is a good board sweeper that also has a decent cycling mode. Etc.
I'm also seeing a major lack of wincons in the deck. Rune-Scarred Demon is an insane blink target. Gray Merchant of Asphodel can quickly drain your enemies down. Avenger of Zendikar can flood the board with bodies. Decree of Justice can be great.
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You might also want to consider running more cycling things. Eternal Dragon isn't a terrible way to trigger multiple times. Decree of Justice is a great combat trick/mana sink. Decree of Pain is a good board sweeper that also has a decent cycling mode. Etc.
I've considered it, and I think I included all cycle cards that I thought would make the cut. Eternal Dragon is 7 mana for a plains and to reuse an ETB effect (with Astral Slide out). This deck can generate a *****ton of mana (I've done 51 in one turn) but actually tends to spend all of it already. Less efficient ways of doing so aren't really needed atm. Decree of Justice I feel as though I actually skipped over (I have this tendency to totally disregard creatures/token makers that make vanilla creatures or big beaters) but I'm not a big fan of it. Tokens don't do anything special for me. I don't have that many sac outlets and I usually have stuff to sac to them already. Decree of Pain I feel shouldn't be played as I have lots of creatures. However, it does refill my hand after the wipe. I do have Karador and Sac outlets to abuse it, AND I can save my best creature with Astral Slide (or even more blink effects). I'll have to test it.
Yeah... That is sort of a theme in anything I make... I tend to focus on the engine to the point of disregarding the win con. My win con up until now has just been beats with the creatures I have on the board. I kinda don't like random "tutor anything" cards in EDH, but that is personal preference. Gray Merchant was considered I believe, but I think I didn't want it because 1: I don't really expect to have a big devotion count; and 2: I tunnel vision away from cards like that (he doesn't provide card advantage.) Avenger is just a card I don't own (it used to be $10, and is now like $4 so I could get it, but I feel like he's not worth the price tag, again, because of my tunnel vision.
I cast Faceless Butcher. It enters the battlefield. Now it's "When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher." trigger goes on the stack.
The stack looks like this:
Top
When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher.
Bottom
Now, I retain priority (instead of passing to my opponents and letting the trigger resolve). And then I cycle Barren Moor. Because I cycle a card Astral Slide's trigger goes on the stack, and I target Faceless Butcher:
The (important parts of the) stack looks like this:
Top
You may exile target creature(Faceless Btucher). (from Astral Slide)v
Bottom
And then I let the stack resolve. My opponents each get priority, play instants if they want or not. Then the first part resolves. Facless butcher gets Exiled until end of turn. Because he leaves the battlefield, his second abilitie triggers.
The stack looks like this:
Top
When Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control. (from Faceless Butcher)
When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher. (from Faceless Butcher)
Bottom
Now, I pass priority and let that resolve. The exiled card is returned to the battlefield. There is no exiled card. Nothing is returned.
The stack looks like this:
Top
When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher. (from Faceless Butcher)
Bottom
I let it resolve. I get to exile something. And there is never a trigger from Faceless Butcher that will bring it back (remember, when Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield and returns, it counts as a totally new creature).
It actually lets you get two things. One creature is exiled permanently, and another is exiled again when it comes back. You could cycle another card and get a third creature, and so on.
It's quite expensive. Although it is gravehate and creature removal. But I don't like the fact that it lets your opponents reuse ETB effect. But you can make them discard. I feel like YMMV on this card.
I didn't see it was like oblivion ring and not like regular flicker (I thought it was until end of turn).
Seems better, the 7 mana is still the deal breaker for me though. But it is a possibility for some.
It's quite expensive. Although it is gravehate and creature removal.
I didn't see it was like oblivion ring and not like regular flicker (I thought it was until end of turn).
Seems better, the 7 mana is still the deal breaker for me though. But it is a possibility for some.
The grave hate is the reason I like it The fact it can instant speed (with a blink) return the reanimation target to their hand making them deal with it later. I dislike mass grave hate to I finds this is more fun( and can be used politically when abuse with blinking)
Thragtusk was the other card that I found I really enjoyed with the mass blinking because who doesn't love tokens and life?
The grave hate is the reason I like it The fact it can instant speed (with a blink) return the reanimation target to their hand making them deal with it later. I dislike mass grave hate to I finds this is more fun( and can be used politically when abuse with blinking)
Thragtusk was the other card that I found I really enjoyed with the mass blinking because who doesn't love tokens and life?
I agree in that I also don't like mass grave hate, but the reason is that if you exile everyone else's graveyard, everyone else's gravehate now only has you as a target. although with karador you are likely to be the target either way, but its not like this deck super relies on the grave in a way that you can wreck it at sorcery speed. you might be set back a bit, that is all.
I actually don't like tokens or life gain (grumpy). however, Thrag gives enough of both to b considered. I might have to get a copy.
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I'm not sure how I'll organise the decklist, as it is a bit... complicated to order by function:
(I'm calling Oblivion Ring type effects with a ETB remove and LTB return trigger "Nightmare Effect" because the original cards to have them were all Nightmares (Faceless Butcher))
8 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Non-Creature Non-Land spells (17 total):
Ramp (7)
2 Edge of Autumn (+ Cycle)
3 Cultivate
3 Harrow
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Primal Growth (+ Sac)
4 Explosive Vegetation
5 Perilous Forays (+ Sac Outlet)
Blink (3)
3 Astral Slide (Repeatable with Cycling)
3 Ghostway
6 Sudden Disappearance
Recursion (2)
2 Life from the Loam (Lands)
2 Regrowth (Any)
Tutors (5)
1 Crop Rotation (Cabal + Urborg or Bojuka Bog)
1 Expedition Map (Cabal + Urborg or Bojuka Bog)
2 Shred Memory (Life from the Loam)
3 Dimir Machination (Astral Slide)
3 Realms Uncharted (Cycle Lands ++)
Creatures (47 total):
Removal (16)
2 Leonin Relic-Warder (Artifact or Enchantment + Nightmare Effect)
2 Qasali Pridemage (Artifact or Enchantment)
2 Shriekmaw (Non-Black Non-Artifact Creature)
2 War Priest of Thune (Enchantment)
3 Fiend Hunter (Creature + Nightmare Effect or Blink)
3 Fleshbag Marauder (Mass Edict + Sac)
3 Necrotic Sliver (Permanent)
4 Faceless Butcher (Creature + Nightmare Effect or Blink)
4 Skinrender (Creature)
4 Slum Reaper (Mass Edict + Sac)
4 Nekrataal (Non-Black Non-Artifact Creature)
5 Acidic Slime (Artifact, Enchantment or Land)
5 Indrik Stomphowler
6 Bane of Progress (Mass Artifact + Enchantment)
6 Brutalizer Exarch (Non Creature, Tuck)
5x Bane of the Living (Mass Creature, usually X=2+)
2 Myr Retriver (Artifact)
2 Saffi Eriksdotter (Creature)
3 Auramancer (Enchantment)
3 Cadaver Imp (Creature)
3 Cartographer (Land)
3 Eternal Witness (Any)
3 Tilling Treefolk (2 Lands)
3 Treasure Hunter (Artifact)
4 Entomber Exarch (Creature, also Discard)
4 Grave Digger (Creature)
4 Sanctum Gargoyle (Artifact)
5 Pharika's Mender (Creature or Enchantment)
5 Reveillark (Two creatures power 2 or less)
Ramp (8)
2 Sakura Tribe Elder
3 Burnished Hart
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Krosan Tusker (+ cycle)
3 Yavimaya Granger
4 Ondu Giant
4 Quirion Trailblazer
4 Solemn Simulacrum
Discard (5)
2 Mesmeric Fiend (Nightmare Effect)
2 Tidehollow Sculler (Nightmare Effect)
3 Sin Collector
4 Entomber Exarch (+ Recursion)
5 Sadistic Hypnotist (+ Sac Outlet)
Draw (5)
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Wall of Omens
3 Krosan Tusker (cycle + Ramp)
4 Disciple of Bolas (+ Sac + Lifegain)
4 Solemn Simulacrum (+ Ramp)
1 Planar Guide (Mass Blink)
3 Fiend Hunter (Nigthmare Effect, also Removal)
3 Flickerwisp (Any permanent)
4 Faceless Butcher (Nigthmare Effect, also Removal)
Sac Outlets (2)
1 Viscera Seer (+ Scry)
5 Sadistic Hypnotist (+ Discard)
Tutor (1)
6 Brutalizer Exarch (Creature + Non-Creature Removal)
Lands (Total 35)
Nonbasic (12)
1 Barren Moor (cycle)
1 Blasted Landscape (cycle)
1 Bojuka Bog (Exile graveyard)
1 Cabal Coffers (+ Urborg)
1 Drifting Meadow (cycle)
1 Grim Backwoods (Sac Outlet + Draw)
1 High Market (Sac Outlet)
1 Polluted Mire (cycle)
1 Secluded Steppe (cycle)
1 Slippery Karst (cycle)
1 Tranquil Thicket (cycle)
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (+ Cabal Coffers)
Basic Lands (23)
9 Forest
7 Plains
7 Swamp
Things to note:
-Don't forget the combo that if the "leaves the battlefield" trigger triggers before the "enters the battlefield" trigger, you get to exile stuff forever.
-Don't be scared to play cycle lands early, you can get them back into the cycle with Crop Rotation, Edge of Autumn, Harrow or even use removal on them.
-I've casted both Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations before. Remember what they do.
-Careful with Creatures that Destroy/Exile stuff on ETB, it's often a mandatory trigger.
-Your goal is not to get Karador on the Board ASAP. You don't use him that much, I don't have the self milling or the Creature count to abuse him early. Just play out your hand, try to get as much card advantage as possible, and when Karador isn't costing all your mana for the turn, cast him, and use him each turn.
-You are built around Karador and Astral Slide, but you don't require either. The deck has plenty of ways of generating card advantage.
-Like most of my decks, this is built around getting incremental advantage, not big powerful jumps from single goodstuff cards.
Might want:
TheEnd
Also, Fluctuator can be great with any of the Urza's cycling lands.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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Wow, I didn't realise that, I thought that like Pull from Eternity it put it into the graveyard! It makes it slightly less useful as I have less tutors, but the new functionality is nice.
I'm not sure about Fluctuator. It helps 5 cards in the deck. And I won't really tutor for it. I feel like it wouldn't really pull it's weight.
That is great, I'd like to make a few cuts to include him. I wonder what though. I might want to add skullclamp back in just so the deck relies on Astral Slide and Karador even less.
I'm also seeing a major lack of wincons in the deck. Rune-Scarred Demon is an insane blink target. Gray Merchant of Asphodel can quickly drain your enemies down. Avenger of Zendikar can flood the board with bodies. Decree of Justice can be great.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
I've considered it, and I think I included all cycle cards that I thought would make the cut. Eternal Dragon is 7 mana for a plains and to reuse an ETB effect (with Astral Slide out). This deck can generate a *****ton of mana (I've done 51 in one turn) but actually tends to spend all of it already. Less efficient ways of doing so aren't really needed atm. Decree of Justice I feel as though I actually skipped over (I have this tendency to totally disregard creatures/token makers that make vanilla creatures or big beaters) but I'm not a big fan of it. Tokens don't do anything special for me. I don't have that many sac outlets and I usually have stuff to sac to them already. Decree of Pain I feel shouldn't be played as I have lots of creatures. However, it does refill my hand after the wipe. I do have Karador and Sac outlets to abuse it, AND I can save my best creature with Astral Slide (or even more blink effects). I'll have to test it.
Yeah... That is sort of a theme in anything I make... I tend to focus on the engine to the point of disregarding the win con. My win con up until now has just been beats with the creatures I have on the board. I kinda don't like random "tutor anything" cards in EDH, but that is personal preference. Gray Merchant was considered I believe, but I think I didn't want it because 1: I don't really expect to have a big devotion count; and 2: I tunnel vision away from cards like that (he doesn't provide card advantage.) Avenger is just a card I don't own (it used to be $10, and is now like $4 so I could get it, but I feel like he's not worth the price tag, again, because of my tunnel vision.
Sooo. Lets take Faceless Butcher as an example. And I have a Barren Moor in my hand, and 5 Swamps and Astral Slide on the field.
I cast Faceless Butcher. It enters the battlefield. Now it's "When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher." trigger goes on the stack.
The stack looks like this:
Top
When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher.
Bottom
Now, I retain priority (instead of passing to my opponents and letting the trigger resolve). And then I cycle Barren Moor. Because I cycle a card Astral Slide's trigger goes on the stack, and I target Faceless Butcher:
The (important parts of the) stack looks like this:
Top
You may exile target creature(Faceless Btucher). (from Astral Slide)v
Bottom
And then I let the stack resolve. My opponents each get priority, play instants if they want or not. Then the first part resolves. Facless butcher gets Exiled until end of turn. Because he leaves the battlefield, his second abilitie triggers.
The stack looks like this:
Top
When Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control. (from Faceless Butcher)
When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher. (from Faceless Butcher)
Bottom
Now, I pass priority and let that resolve. The exiled card is returned to the battlefield. There is no exiled card. Nothing is returned.
The stack looks like this:
Top
When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher. (from Faceless Butcher)
Bottom
I let it resolve. I get to exile something. And there is never a trigger from Faceless Butcher that will bring it back (remember, when Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield and returns, it counts as a totally new creature).
See?
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
Glad you like it. I hope you find interesting tech about the deck I can myself use.
It's quite expensive. Although it is gravehate and creature removal.
But I don't like the fact that it lets your opponents reuse ETB effect. But you can make them discard. I feel like YMMV on this card.I didn't see it was like oblivion ring and not like regular flicker (I thought it was until end of turn).
Seems better, the 7 mana is still the deal breaker for me though. But it is a possibility for some.
The grave hate is the reason I like it The fact it can instant speed (with a blink) return the reanimation target to their hand making them deal with it later. I dislike mass grave hate to I finds this is more fun( and can be used politically when abuse with blinking)
Thragtusk was the other card that I found I really enjoyed with the mass blinking because who doesn't love tokens and life?
I agree in that I also don't like mass grave hate, but the reason is that if you exile everyone else's graveyard, everyone else's gravehate now only has you as a target. although with karador you are likely to be the target either way, but its not like this deck super relies on the grave in a way that you can wreck it at sorcery speed. you might be set back a bit, that is all.
I actually don't like tokens or life gain (grumpy). however, Thrag gives enough of both to b considered. I might have to get a copy.