...
There's a land you can play and sacrifice to bring a land back to your hand (can't remember it's name right now) to add some extra spice to your life.
...
You're thinking of Petrified Field. Really a great land to be running if you want to make some 1-sided RU piles.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
—Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
Approximately people use 33% lands in their decks, here is 50%, so you will ramp most people for ~2 lands in average, and yourself for 2.5. But ramping is not a big problem for this deck: with manabond and 6 lands, you can have 7 mana on turn 2. But what are problems are opponents' speed and mana utilization (having 7 mana on turn 2 is cool, but what do we do with it?). If you get unlucky and on turn 3 ramp an opponent for 5, he can just drop a land and play a kicked Tooth&Nail.
I think you got the idea
I agree, I don't think Clear the Land is where we want to be. We have more consistent ways of ramping. Journey of Discovery would be a much better effect if you're looking for additional ramp.
I recently found out a buddy of mine is getting me a couple of fetches for my birthday! I love birthdays. They should happen every month. I made the following quality of life changes to the deck.
I think this deck can be a lot of fun, but it just seems too slow. Maybe it needs more control. What turn is this deck suppose to win? I could just see tokens swarming all over this deck before it has a chance to combo out?
I updated the OP with this version of the deck that has a bit more of a dedicated combo feel to it.
This version of the deck loses a lot of it's mid-late game resiliency in favor of going HAM in the early game. The basic plan is to aggressively tutor for Ad Nauseam and cast it, netting yourself any number of ways to ramp into a kill spell, usually Seismic Assault. This can be done with Moxen (Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, and Lotus Petal) or Summer Bloom, putting 3 red sources into play. You can also still get the usual combos (Inkmoth + Kessig, Dark Depths, Ob Nixilis + Manabond). I also put the Scapeshift + Prismatic Omen + Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle in this version as an alternate way to kill people.
This version of the deck would work much better in a 1v1 kind of situation, but it can also kill 2-3 opponents at once. When I was playing a version close to this I once wiped 3 people from the game on turn 3-4 with Seismic Assault, Dark Depths, and I think I had a storm element in that version as well. You play a lot of spells when Ad Nauseam goes off, after all.
This is a much more delicate build, and will also not make you any friends. Proceed with caution.
I think these effects would make excellent budget replacements for Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Exploration (although Exploration isn't too expensive). If you're trying to put a lot of extra lands in play and ramp that way, then definitely go for it. I'm finding as I play this deck that the best of these effects is Manabond, though. Most games I don't see Exploration or Burgeoning.
I added a Snow-Covered Swamp to finally round out my Snow-Covereds--now all of my basics are one standard and one Snow.
I'm also working on updating the OP with better card discussions and a budget list, more on that as it progresses. Check it out, let me know what you think!
Dragonmaster Outcast is like, 13$, which doesn't make it as budget friendly as I'd like. If we're adding 10+$ cards, I'd rather put Oracle of Mul Daya in the deck.
I also updated my list, as I made a few changes adn I can't remember when, or what I've already covered.
We only need one more fetch and then I have the number I want! Looking for an Arid Mesa to round out my fetches (3 on color, 1 Red fetch, 1 green fetch, 1 black fetch). I don't want to go the full 9 until I have the OG duals, but mostly because I don't want to buy a Misty Rainforest or a Scalding Tarn.
First and foremost I'm a huge fan of this list, but I have a question in regards to it. Is there any reason you're not playing Sensei's top in this deck? I'm trying to build this deck and I happen to have a top. So should I put it in?
First and foremost I'm a huge fan of this list, but I have a question in regards to it. Is there any reason you're not playing Sensei's top in this deck? I'm trying to build this deck and I happen to have a top. So should I put it in?
I'm glad you like the list
The only reason top isn't in here is because my two copies of top are in two other decks. Xira doesn't need top, but it wouldn't say no to it. If I got another copy of top today, I'd probably cut Raven's Crime for it. Raven's Crime is a solid card and a great way to use extra lands, but it's not as valuable as the burn variants. The problem with discard is that if you let up the pressure it's like it never happened at all, and as my only source of discard it has a tendency to deter what I'm trying to do.
I started with the OP's list and started testing.
I was swapping cards in and out constantly and surprisingly I found a lot of things that I wanted to try out.
That just shows the variability of the base idea of the deck and I like that I was able to put my own touch on it.
I noticed that you didn't go for the Valkut combos, which does take a few slots in the deck. However, I think the cards are good enough on their own to be worth their weight and having access to another synergistic win condition is very good.
I also noticed you didn't have any graveyard protection aside from draw to grab Loam. Graveyard hate is by far the biggest weakness for this deck and I think it warrants multiple cards to protect it (such as Krosan Grip, Witchbane Orb, and Elixir of Immortality). You mentioned that you see a lot of single target hate, but I see Bojuka Bog in absolutely every black deck and colorless hate cards in every nonblack deck that can't play bog. Unfortunately, pretty much everyone with a bog also has a map to search for lands. I have yet to play a live game without being targeted with graveyard hate that takes out my entire yard.
I just want to point out how amazing Glacial Chasm is. Against many decks it can make you virtually unkillable and you can sac it and replay it if it happens to get too many time counters on it. Also, you can get cheeky and sac it to attack and then replay it again after combat. Auto include for me considering it costs less than a dollar.
Spells Removed
1 Deathrite Shaman - Don't realy like to exile lands from my graveyard and the other abilities are nice, but decided to go another direction
3 Countryside Crusher - Usually just a dumb beater, but the mill is nice but kinda sad that it is an upkeep trigger so it has to live a full cycle (might come back in)
3 Tilling Treefolk - I have enough ways to get lands back without resorting to playing a creature to do it
4 Graveborn Muse - Would rather play a noncreature for extra card draw
5 Realm Seekers - While quite the fatty, paying 9 mana to tutor up your first land seemed too steep for me
3 Dark Tutelage - I found that I often needed to keep a close eye on my life and dark tutalage was just one too many life loss cards
0 Mox Diamond - Usually I found another land would be just as good. Replaced with more utility
1 Sol Ring - Not playing sol ring is always the wrong choice, but I decided to try out other things
3 Horn of Greed - Even when I got more out of it, I just never liked giving my opponents draw
1 Raven's Crime - I often found I had better things to do with my mana than discard
3 Toxic Deluge - Replaced with an x-cost sweeper to ease up on the life loss
4 Damnation - Don't own one but it is easily replaced
1 Darkblast - Pretty much never used this more than once a turn and playing it purely for the dredge felt bad
1 Firestorm - Important to note that you need a unique target for every point in x and I felt that I wanted to use my discard for other things than what was usually removal (I might still try it some more)
3 Beast Within - Replaced with Krosan Grip for more graveyard protection
1 Lightning Bolt - Never really seemed relevant enough, often enough
1 Punishing Fire - Without Grove, it is really not worth it
Spells Added
1 Sensei's Divining Top - Topdeck manipulation is very good in this deck and synergizes with many cards
1 Elixir of Immortality - Protection from grave hate and a way to recycle cards back into an empty library when going off
2 Black Sun's Zenith - Prime x-cost removal
2 Starstorm - Sweeper and cycler pretty nifty
2 Shred Memory - Tutor for many important things such as Life from the Loam, Prismatic Omen, Nostalgic Dreams, Torpor Orb, Ancient Grudge, Regrowth, Sylvan Scrying, Demonic tutor, Sylvan Library, Hermit Druid. I am actually considering the three mana transmute card as well...
2 Torpor Orb - Does not bother this deck at all and wrecks some of the best creatures in the format
2 Nostalgic Dreams - Probably the second best recursion spell in the deck
2 Prismatic Omen - Color fixes and enables insane Valkut damage
2 Lotus Cobra - Great mana producer at all points in the game. Scapeshift anyone?
3 Underworld Connection - Probably my weakest card draw, but ok (tried necropotence instead for a little while, but wanted it in my black deck more)
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking - Not including the land queen is a no-no for me
3 Crystal Ball - Looks weak, but suprisingly effective I love digging an extra two cards every turn and setting up Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Yawgmoth's Will - The top dog of recursion and a must play for me
3 Wheel of Fortune - The bes red draw spell and has synergy with the graveyard play
3 Kroson Grip - Removal and graveyard protection (stops Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt cold)
4 Witchbane Orb - Shuts down Tormod's Crypt, Bajuka Bog and a couple other nasty things
5 Dictate of the Twin Gods - Someone suggested I try damage doublers and I have really liked this one so far
Lands Removed Mutavault - Kept the most useful manlands and cut the ones I never used Mishra's Factory - Kept the most useful manlands and cut the ones I never used Treetop Village - Kept the most useful manlands and cut the ones I never used Wasteland - Replaced with Strip Mine Tectonic Edge - Didn't feel I needed a second lando card Crystal Vein - Would rather have a land that gives 2 mana without sacrificing Polluted Delta - Felt confortable with the fetches I had, might come in later Sulfurous Springs - Replaced with Karplusan Forest since I usually wanted red and green more often Tained Wood - Somehow just didn't work it's way in, but might come in later Grove of the Burnwillows - Don't have a Grove right now, but I don't miss it too much Gemstone Mine - Didn't really like having lands that sac themselves Dakmor Salvage - Never really felt like I wanted to dredge for 2 Cabal Pit - Didn't feel like I needed two removal lands
Lands Added Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - One of the first changes I made. Valakut is another land based win condition with Prismatic Omen Glacial Chasm - Glacial Chasm is just so damn good. Well worth not being able to attack. Strip Mine - Cheaper and better Wasteland Temple of the False God - Usually better than Crystal Vein Buried Ruin - I found I needed more recursion for nonland cards Haunted Fengraf - I found I needed more recursion for nonland cards snow-covered mountain - Wanted one more mountain Deserted Temple - Doubling Coffers mana is so worth it Karplusan Forest - I usually wanted red and green more often Petrified Field - I found the recursion to be very helpful for getting what I needed Polluted Mire - wanted more cycle lands for loam/draw Slippery Karst - More cycle lands for loam/draw Smoldering Crater - wanted more cycle lands for loam/draw
Garridy, these are all excellent recommendations. I've really been trying to make this deck work, but at times it feels underwhelming. Some of the changes you mentioned are fairly obvious (i.e. exclusively running snow-covered basic lands) but technology like Starstorm and Shred Memory as well as running Torpor Orb
are excellent ideas. My only problem with Torpor Orb is it doesn't play nice with Eternal Witness.
I agree about us not needing a lot of creatures. These are the 10 that I'm running:
I would also like to see Garridy's list Those all look like fine cuts, depending on what you're final build and meta looks like. I especially like the Shred Memory tech, and Torpor Orb is a card I had never really thought off. I'll have to add that to my maybe pile. I definitely want a Yawgmoth's Will in the deck, but I just don't own one yet.
I think you should find room for Beast Within again. Instant speed Vindicates are VERY good, and also deal with gy hate. Too versatile to cut.
I made a few changes to the deck, but I don't want to edit my list right now. I'm going to play some EDH tomorrow, so I'll update it after some more testing.
I don't have my computer right now, but my list is identical to the OP list with the changes I listed. Ill post it once I get a computer.
Torpor orb stops eternal witness, but that is quite literally one card in the deck, so I would not let that keep me from playing torpor orb.
I honestly would much rather have krosan grip than beast within but I'm sure I'll find another slot soon for beast within. I have already had the split second ability be relevant in two games today.
I was focused in my last game I played and was able to survive in single digit life for enough time to finish the table off. All thanks to glacial chasm.
Most of these changes are designed towards streamlining the deck by removing extra clutter, even if it was more or less on theme for the deck (this is how I build my decks--I cram as much of a theme into the deck as possible, and then dial it back with answers and gas until it survives as long as I want and generally does what I want).
Dark Tutelage is a great card, but with Ad Nauseam taking cards out of our life total, I figured I should put a band-aid over the bleeding. Replaced it with a couple of one-shot (but much less life) cards in Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper.
All in all, the deck is playing well. I one once, lost 3 times in a 3 player pod, which is about how fair a deck can get. The only time I got KO'd early was when my Ad Nauseam failed to find a win-condition and left me with 10 life (came close, though!). Once I get a Glacial Chasm it's going in the deck, but so far that's the only critical add (I updated the OP with some additional cards I'm looking at).
I might want to add another cycle of dual lands to bring my mana-fixing specific lands up to 30, which seems right (I count Raging Ravine and Lavaclaw Reaches as man-lands). Obviously the Revised Duals would be best, but I'll probably end up adding pain lands or filter lands instead. More on that as it develops.
I have not tried the Scepter, but I don't think this is necessarily the deck for it. We can only imprint 10 of our cards, which seems a bit shaky. We also don't have very many ways to tutor for specific instants, so we have almost no control over what gets imprinted. Thanks for the suggestion though!
I was coming here to post about Titania, Protector of Argoth as well! That card is going to be tested, at least. She seems insane with Scapeshift or Aggressive Mining, as well as all of our fetches. I'm very excited about Titania's prospects.
...
I was coming here to post about Titania, Protector of Argoth as well! That card is going to be tested, at least. She seems insane with Scapeshift or Aggressive Mining, as well as all of our fetches. I'm very excited about Titania's prospects.
Or Dark Depths? Having the threat of another Marit Laige waiting in the wings seems pretty good.
Private Mod Note
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
—Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
You're not allowed to put off color mana in your deck, unless there's a house rule allowing it. Otherwise that would be cool. You could try ghost town or undiscovered paradise if you want that kind of effect. To be honest though i used to run ghost town and it never got activated. With 50 land in the deck it's hard to miss a land drop. I'm hurting more for landfall triggers than lands for the triggers.
If you're hurting for landfall triggers grazing gladhart could help keep you alive. Not as good as courser obviously, but this deck does deal itself some damage.
I know you have mentioned budget is an issue, but Gaea's Cradle has quite often exploded my boardstate out of nowhere with Worm Harvest.
The Filter lands are extremely helpful with how color hungry this deck can be. I would say they are some of the most important things to see early-game for me. Even if you aren't running Valakut, Prismatic Omen has been very clutch for me as well for this same reason.
Kher Keep is a really great land for me, I am running Bitterblossom and skullclamp as well however, so it does double duty, but just having a blocker available is fantastic.
Volrath's Stronghold has been pretty great as well, often just getting back E-Wit or Oracle of Mul Daya
She is just great utility, providing mana-fixing, as well as more splashy things like untapping Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle.
It is fragile, but She also makes infinite mana on attack step with Maze of Ith. This is amazing with things like Kessig Wolf Run, and I run Oran Rief, the Vastwood to give hasted Worms infinite power toughness, etc. Also, If Xira is attacking with her, you can draw your entire deck. It also infinites with Grove of the Burnwillows/Punishing Fire. Infinite Kher Keep Kobolds..... You get the idea. In a lands deck, she does stupid things. Also, it's a lot of 3-4 card combos that are super-fragile, so I don't feel bad when it happens.
With the amount of mana this deck can produce, Genesis Wave is a hell of a thing as well, although I run slightly less spells and more permanents. I have also been considering a Warp World element to the deck, though that's another 8-cost spell.
Some Questions:
Do you find Courser of Kruphix to be worth it? I haven't been able to find a foil one locally.
What are your thoughts on Into the Wilds? I have been testing it this week, and have been pretty happy with it, although there are better choices. Only needing 1G is nice in the early stages of the deck's lifecycle.
Do you find yourself wanting some Haste outlets? I have been running Urabrask, the Hidden and Madrush Cyclops, and my ability to end games with Worm Harvest has been insane. I have been less focused on the Ad Nauseum plan though. The correct card is probably Concordant Crossroads in any case.
Well that's enough for now, super-excited for Titania too!
If you're hurting for landfall triggers grazing gladehart could help keep you alive. Not as good as courser obviously, but this deck does deal itself some damage.
[b]I didn't mean to suggest I'm looking for additional landfall triggers, just pointing out where the room for improvement is. This is probably too weak--I'd prefer to run Zuran Orb, especially with Titania coming out so soon.[/b]
Lurked for a long time on these forums, but I also have a very similar deck, love playing it, and excited to join the conversation.
Some Suggestions:
+1 on Nostalgic Dreams. It wins games straight up.
[b]Given the amount of praise this card has been getting I may have to suck it up and try it. I'm not exactly hurting for recursion though, so it's not exactly a high priority at the moment.[/b]
I know you have mentioned budget is an issue, but Gaea's Cradle has quite often exploded my boardstate out of nowhere with Worm Harvest.
[b]Budget's only a minor issue, although a card like Cradle is certainly out of my reach at the moment. Aside form Worm Harvest shenanigans, have you found it useful? My list runs something like 10 creatures, so I feel like it would be dead more often than insane. A ton of mana isn't really what this deck struggles with, either. In fact, most games I get Cabal Coffers online I find I have more mana than I could possible use unless Kessig Wolf Run is in play.[/b]
The Filter lands are extremely helpful with how color hungry this deck can be. I would say they are some of the most important things to see early-game for me. Even if you aren't running Valakut, Prismatic Omen has been very clutch for me as well for this same reason.
[b]Prismatic Omen and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle are my more immediate list of cards to acquire. The Filter lands are somewhere behind them. To be honest though, I haven't had any mana problems that I can recall (except one game where I drew both my mountains under Blood Moon, but I blame Blood Moon[/b]
Kher Keep is a really great land for me, I am running Bitterblossom and skullclamp as well however, so it does double duty, but just having a blocker available is fantastic.
[b]You should look at Bloodghast as well, then. A solid card to Entomb into with a Skullclamp in play. I don't run that package, so I'ma pass on Kher Keep, though.[/b]
Volrath's Stronghold has been pretty great as well, often just getting back E-Wit or Oracle of Mul Daya
[b]I was thinking about Stronghold as well for my deck, mostly just because we're so good at dredging. I'll keep it on my radar[/b]
She is just great utility, providing mana-fixing, as well as more splashy things like untapping Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle.
It is fragile, but She also makes infinite mana on attack step with Maze of Ith. This is amazing with things like Kessig Wolf Run, and I run Oran Rief, the Vastwood to give hasted Worms infinite power toughness, etc. Also, If Xira is attacking with her, you can draw your entire deck. It also infinites with Grove of the Burnwillows/Punishing Fire. Infinite Kher Keep Kobolds..... You get the idea. In a lands deck, she does stupid things. Also, it's a lot of 3-4 card combos that are super-fragile, so I don't feel bad when it happens.
[b]This card seems like a stretch, but it explosive when it sticks around. I'll take this under advisement, but I'm not sure it's what my version wants to be doing.[/b]
Buried Ruin and Oblivion Stone/Disk also topshelf.
[b]I haven't had trouble dealing with my opponent's boards, although if your meta/deck is proving tricky, this is a great idea! Since it's not a particular weak point for my deck (or maybe it's just my meta runs a lot of answers so I can get by with fewer) I'll probably skip this for now.[/b]
With the amount of mana this deck can produce, Genesis Wave is a hell of a thing as well, although I run slightly less spells and more permanents. I have also been considering a Warp World element to the deck, though that's another 8-cost spell.
[b]I like Genesis Wave a lot more than Warp World. I can't afford the life-loss, but I can probably get behind that x-spell as a screwy version of Ad Nauseam.[/b]
Some Questions:
Do you find Courser of Kruphix to be worth it? I haven't been able to find a foil one locally.
[b]To be honest this card has been a little underwhelming, but I'm also bad at remembering triggers. As we run so few ways to gain life and we burn through it so quickly, I'm hesitant to cut this guy. The 2/4 body is also probably why I don't get attacked as much in the early game. This dude is so solid on paper, but I'm usually wishing it was something else when I play it. If you remember to gain all of your life this card is probably just insane.[/b]
What are your thoughts on Into the Wilds? I have been testing it this week, and have been pretty happy with it, although there are better choices. Only needing 1G is nice in the early stages of the deck's lifecycle.
[b]Did you mean Into the North? That could be pretty good. I don't run any one-shot ramp spells except like Dark Ritual (it just plays so well with Yawgmoth's Win). It's probably the best Rampant Growth variant for us since it grabs Dark Depths and Mouth of Ronom, but even so I'm just kinda "meh" about it. I actually kind of like Into the Wilds as a way to get even more lands into play, but it's probably too expensive for a hit-or-miss ability.
Do you find yourself wanting some Haste outlets? I have been running Urabrask, the Hidden and Madrush Cyclops, and my ability to end games with Worm Harvest has been insane. I have been less focused on the Ad Nauseum plan though. The correct card is probably Concordant Crossroads in any case.
[b]I haven't wanted a haste outlet ever. Worm Harvest is usually played defensively for me as a way to make attacking me unfavorable, I rarely get aggressive with it. I like to kill people more explosively (for better or worse), preferring Manabond + Ob Nixilis, the Fallen or Ad Nauseam + Seismic Assault.
It sounds like your deck is significantly different from mine--I'd love to see the full list when you get a chance to type it up [/b]
Well that's enough for now, super-excited for Titania too!
You're thinking of Petrified Field. Really a great land to be running if you want to make some 1-sided RU piles.
—Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
EDH/Commander
WWMichiko Konda, Truth Seeker Mono-White Control
RWBasandra, Battle Seraph Sunforger Shenanigans
GRWZacama Loam & Lands
Cube
Draft my "Classic Border Cube"
WUBRG
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I agree, I don't think Clear the Land is where we want to be. We have more consistent ways of ramping. Journey of Discovery would be a much better effect if you're looking for additional ramp.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Out --> In
Rootbound Crag --> Wooded Foothills
Golgari Rot Farm --> Verdant Catacombs
I updated the OP with this version of the deck that has a bit more of a dedicated combo feel to it.
Ramp - 12
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Tinder Wall
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Burgeoning
1 Exploration
1 Manabond
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Dark Ritual
1 Summer Bloom
Win-Conditions - 5
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1 Seismic Assault
1 Prismatic Omen
1 Scapeshift
1 Worm Harvest
Card Selection - 11
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Hermit Druid
1 Countryside Crusher
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tainted Pact
1 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Gamble
1 Entomb
Card Advantage - 5
1 Dark Confidant
1 Horn of Greed
1 Dark Tutelage
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Life from the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Recoup
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Past in Flames
1 Creeping Renaissance
Other - 8
1 Pithing Needle
1 Zuran Orb
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Nature's Claim
1 Raven's Crime
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
Land - 50
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Raging Ravine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Tainted Wood
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Gemstone Mine
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Vesuva
1 Barren Moor
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Mutavault
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bajuka Bog
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Petrified Field
This version of the deck loses a lot of it's mid-late game resiliency in favor of going HAM in the early game. The basic plan is to aggressively tutor for Ad Nauseam and cast it, netting yourself any number of ways to ramp into a kill spell, usually Seismic Assault. This can be done with Moxen (Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, and Lotus Petal) or Summer Bloom, putting 3 red sources into play. You can also still get the usual combos (Inkmoth + Kessig, Dark Depths, Ob Nixilis + Manabond). I also put the Scapeshift + Prismatic Omen + Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle in this version as an alternate way to kill people.
This version of the deck would work much better in a 1v1 kind of situation, but it can also kill 2-3 opponents at once. When I was playing a version close to this I once wiped 3 people from the game on turn 3-4 with Seismic Assault, Dark Depths, and I think I had a storm element in that version as well. You play a lot of spells when Ad Nauseam goes off, after all.
This is a much more delicate build, and will also not make you any friends. Proceed with caution.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I think these effects would make excellent budget replacements for Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Exploration (although Exploration isn't too expensive). If you're trying to put a lot of extra lands in play and ramp that way, then definitely go for it. I'm finding as I play this deck that the best of these effects is Manabond, though. Most games I don't see Exploration or Burgeoning.
I also made some adjustments to my list!
Out --> In
Flame Jab --> Scapeshift
Forest --> Rootbound Crag
Blasted Landscape --> Dragonskull Summit
Ghost Town --> Cabal Coffers
Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is the real deal, thanks for that suggestion Juwdah!
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
I'm also working on updating the OP with better card discussions and a budget list, more on that as it progresses. Check it out, let me know what you think!
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I also updated my list, as I made a few changes adn I can't remember when, or what I've already covered.
Out --> In
Blasted Lands --> Routbound Crag
Restore --> Toxic Deluge
Savage Lands --> Reflecting Pool
Terramorphic Expanse --> Polluted Delta
We only need one more fetch and then I have the number I want! Looking for an Arid Mesa to round out my fetches (3 on color, 1 Red fetch, 1 green fetch, 1 black fetch). I don't want to go the full 9 until I have the OG duals, but mostly because I don't want to buy a Misty Rainforest or a Scalding Tarn.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
I'm glad you like the list
The only reason top isn't in here is because my two copies of top are in two other decks. Xira doesn't need top, but it wouldn't say no to it. If I got another copy of top today, I'd probably cut Raven's Crime for it. Raven's Crime is a solid card and a great way to use extra lands, but it's not as valuable as the burn variants. The problem with discard is that if you let up the pressure it's like it never happened at all, and as my only source of discard it has a tendency to deter what I'm trying to do.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
I was swapping cards in and out constantly and surprisingly I found a lot of things that I wanted to try out.
That just shows the variability of the base idea of the deck and I like that I was able to put my own touch on it.
I noticed that you didn't go for the Valkut combos, which does take a few slots in the deck. However, I think the cards are good enough on their own to be worth their weight and having access to another synergistic win condition is very good.
I also noticed you didn't have any graveyard protection aside from draw to grab Loam. Graveyard hate is by far the biggest weakness for this deck and I think it warrants multiple cards to protect it (such as Krosan Grip, Witchbane Orb, and Elixir of Immortality). You mentioned that you see a lot of single target hate, but I see Bojuka Bog in absolutely every black deck and colorless hate cards in every nonblack deck that can't play bog. Unfortunately, pretty much everyone with a bog also has a map to search for lands. I have yet to play a live game without being targeted with graveyard hate that takes out my entire yard.
I just want to point out how amazing Glacial Chasm is. Against many decks it can make you virtually unkillable and you can sac it and replay it if it happens to get too many time counters on it. Also, you can get cheeky and sac it to attack and then replay it again after combat. Auto include for me considering it costs less than a dollar.
Spells Removed
1 Deathrite Shaman - Don't realy like to exile lands from my graveyard and the other abilities are nice, but decided to go another direction
3 Countryside Crusher - Usually just a dumb beater, but the mill is nice but kinda sad that it is an upkeep trigger so it has to live a full cycle (might come back in)
3 Tilling Treefolk - I have enough ways to get lands back without resorting to playing a creature to do it
4 Graveborn Muse - Would rather play a noncreature for extra card draw
5 Realm Seekers - While quite the fatty, paying 9 mana to tutor up your first land seemed too steep for me
3 Dark Tutelage - I found that I often needed to keep a close eye on my life and dark tutalage was just one too many life loss cards
0 Mox Diamond - Usually I found another land would be just as good. Replaced with more utility
1 Sol Ring - Not playing sol ring is always the wrong choice, but I decided to try out other things
3 Horn of Greed - Even when I got more out of it, I just never liked giving my opponents draw
1 Raven's Crime - I often found I had better things to do with my mana than discard
3 Toxic Deluge - Replaced with an x-cost sweeper to ease up on the life loss
4 Damnation - Don't own one but it is easily replaced
1 Darkblast - Pretty much never used this more than once a turn and playing it purely for the dredge felt bad
1 Firestorm - Important to note that you need a unique target for every point in x and I felt that I wanted to use my discard for other things than what was usually removal (I might still try it some more)
3 Beast Within - Replaced with Krosan Grip for more graveyard protection
1 Lightning Bolt - Never really seemed relevant enough, often enough
1 Punishing Fire - Without Grove, it is really not worth it
Spells Added
1 Sensei's Divining Top - Topdeck manipulation is very good in this deck and synergizes with many cards
1 Elixir of Immortality - Protection from grave hate and a way to recycle cards back into an empty library when going off
2 Black Sun's Zenith - Prime x-cost removal
2 Starstorm - Sweeper and cycler pretty nifty
2 Shred Memory - Tutor for many important things such as Life from the Loam, Prismatic Omen, Nostalgic Dreams, Torpor Orb, Ancient Grudge, Regrowth, Sylvan Scrying, Demonic tutor, Sylvan Library, Hermit Druid. I am actually considering the three mana transmute card as well...
2 Torpor Orb - Does not bother this deck at all and wrecks some of the best creatures in the format
2 Nostalgic Dreams - Probably the second best recursion spell in the deck
2 Prismatic Omen - Color fixes and enables insane Valkut damage
2 Lotus Cobra - Great mana producer at all points in the game. Scapeshift anyone?
3 Underworld Connection - Probably my weakest card draw, but ok (tried necropotence instead for a little while, but wanted it in my black deck more)
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking - Not including the land queen is a no-no for me
3 Crystal Ball - Looks weak, but suprisingly effective I love digging an extra two cards every turn and setting up Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Yawgmoth's Will - The top dog of recursion and a must play for me
3 Wheel of Fortune - The bes red draw spell and has synergy with the graveyard play
3 Kroson Grip - Removal and graveyard protection (stops Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt cold)
4 Witchbane Orb - Shuts down Tormod's Crypt, Bajuka Bog and a couple other nasty things
5 Dictate of the Twin Gods - Someone suggested I try damage doublers and I have really liked this one so far
Lands Removed
Mutavault - Kept the most useful manlands and cut the ones I never used
Mishra's Factory - Kept the most useful manlands and cut the ones I never used
Treetop Village - Kept the most useful manlands and cut the ones I never used
Wasteland - Replaced with Strip Mine
Tectonic Edge - Didn't feel I needed a second lando card
Crystal Vein - Would rather have a land that gives 2 mana without sacrificing
Polluted Delta - Felt confortable with the fetches I had, might come in later
Sulfurous Springs - Replaced with Karplusan Forest since I usually wanted red and green more often
Tained Wood - Somehow just didn't work it's way in, but might come in later
Grove of the Burnwillows - Don't have a Grove right now, but I don't miss it too much
Gemstone Mine - Didn't really like having lands that sac themselves
Dakmor Salvage - Never really felt like I wanted to dredge for 2
Cabal Pit - Didn't feel like I needed two removal lands
Lands Added
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - One of the first changes I made. Valakut is another land based win condition with Prismatic Omen
Glacial Chasm - Glacial Chasm is just so damn good. Well worth not being able to attack.
Strip Mine - Cheaper and better Wasteland
Temple of the False God - Usually better than Crystal Vein
Buried Ruin - I found I needed more recursion for nonland cards
Haunted Fengraf - I found I needed more recursion for nonland cards
snow-covered mountain - Wanted one more mountain
Deserted Temple - Doubling Coffers mana is so worth it
Karplusan Forest - I usually wanted red and green more often
Petrified Field - I found the recursion to be very helpful for getting what I needed
Polluted Mire - wanted more cycle lands for loam/draw
Slippery Karst - More cycle lands for loam/draw
Smoldering Crater - wanted more cycle lands for loam/draw
No reason not to play all snow basics for Mouth of Ronom
Removing
Mountain
Swamp
Forest
Adding
snow-covered mountain
snow-covered swamp
snow-covered forest
are excellent ideas. My only problem with Torpor Orb is it doesn't play nice with Eternal Witness.
I agree about us not needing a lot of creatures. These are the 10 that I'm running:
I'd really be interesting in seeing your full list Garridy.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I think you should find room for Beast Within again. Instant speed Vindicates are VERY good, and also deal with gy hate. Too versatile to cut.
I made a few changes to the deck, but I don't want to edit my list right now. I'm going to play some EDH tomorrow, so I'll update it after some more testing.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Torpor orb stops eternal witness, but that is quite literally one card in the deck, so I would not let that keep me from playing torpor orb.
I honestly would much rather have krosan grip than beast within but I'm sure I'll find another slot soon for beast within. I have already had the split second ability be relevant in two games today.
I was focused in my last game I played and was able to survive in single digit life for enough time to finish the table off. All thanks to glacial chasm.
Out --> in
Deathrite Shaman --> Yawgmoth's Will (it's gold-bordered, but I won't tell if you won't)
Countryside Crusher --> Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Realm Seekers --> Sign in Blood
Dark Tutelage --> Night's Whisper
Raven's Crime --> Nature's Claim (better than Krosan Grip under Ad Nauseam)
Explore --> Shred Memory
??? --> Dark Ritual
Mishra's Factory --> Savage Lands
Crystal Vein --> Dustbowl
Techtonic Edge --> Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Treetop Village --> Petrified Field
Sulfurous Springs --> Blackcleave Cliffs
Most of these changes are designed towards streamlining the deck by removing extra clutter, even if it was more or less on theme for the deck (this is how I build my decks--I cram as much of a theme into the deck as possible, and then dial it back with answers and gas until it survives as long as I want and generally does what I want).
Dark Tutelage is a great card, but with Ad Nauseam taking cards out of our life total, I figured I should put a band-aid over the bleeding. Replaced it with a couple of one-shot (but much less life) cards in Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper.
All in all, the deck is playing well. I one once, lost 3 times in a 3 player pod, which is about how fair a deck can get. The only time I got KO'd early was when my Ad Nauseam failed to find a win-condition and left me with 10 life (came close, though!). Once I get a Glacial Chasm it's going in the deck, but so far that's the only critical add (I updated the OP with some additional cards I'm looking at).
I might want to add another cycle of dual lands to bring my mana-fixing specific lands up to 30, which seems right (I count Raging Ravine and Lavaclaw Reaches as man-lands). Obviously the Revised Duals would be best, but I'll probably end up adding pain lands or filter lands instead. More on that as it develops.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
I was coming here to post about Titania, Protector of Argoth as well! That card is going to be tested, at least. She seems insane with Scapeshift or Aggressive Mining, as well as all of our fetches. I'm very excited about Titania's prospects.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Or Dark Depths? Having the threat of another Marit Laige waiting in the wings seems pretty good.
—Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
EDH/Commander
WWMichiko Konda, Truth Seeker Mono-White Control
RWBasandra, Battle Seraph Sunforger Shenanigans
GRWZacama Loam & Lands
Cube
Draft my "Classic Border Cube"
WUBRG
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Some Suggestions:
+1 on Nostalgic Dreams. It wins games straight up.
I know you have mentioned budget is an issue, but Gaea's Cradle has quite often exploded my boardstate out of nowhere with Worm Harvest.
The Filter lands are extremely helpful with how color hungry this deck can be. I would say they are some of the most important things to see early-game for me. Even if you aren't running Valakut, Prismatic Omen has been very clutch for me as well for this same reason.
Kher Keep is a really great land for me, I am running Bitterblossom and skullclamp as well however, so it does double duty, but just having a blocker available is fantastic.
Volrath's Stronghold has been pretty great as well, often just getting back E-Wit or Oracle of Mul Daya
One card I can't recommend enough is Krosan Restorer.
She is just great utility, providing mana-fixing, as well as more splashy things like untapping Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle.
It is fragile, but She also makes infinite mana on attack step with Maze of Ith. This is amazing with things like Kessig Wolf Run, and I run Oran Rief, the Vastwood to give hasted Worms infinite power toughness, etc. Also, If Xira is attacking with her, you can draw your entire deck. It also infinites with Grove of the Burnwillows/Punishing Fire. Infinite Kher Keep Kobolds..... You get the idea. In a lands deck, she does stupid things. Also, it's a lot of 3-4 card combos that are super-fragile, so I don't feel bad when it happens.
Buried Ruin and Oblivion Stone/Disk also topshelf.
With the amount of mana this deck can produce, Genesis Wave is a hell of a thing as well, although I run slightly less spells and more permanents. I have also been considering a Warp World element to the deck, though that's another 8-cost spell.
Some Questions:
Do you find Courser of Kruphix to be worth it? I haven't been able to find a foil one locally.
What are your thoughts on Into the Wilds? I have been testing it this week, and have been pretty happy with it, although there are better choices. Only needing 1G is nice in the early stages of the deck's lifecycle.
Do you find yourself wanting some Haste outlets? I have been running Urabrask, the Hidden and Madrush Cyclops, and my ability to end games with Worm Harvest has been insane. I have been less focused on the Ad Nauseum plan though. The correct card is probably Concordant Crossroads in any case.
Well that's enough for now, super-excited for Titania too!
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR