And then I have this 8 drop I have to find room for. Maybe I could cut a six drop, but that slot already feels light for my Birthing Pod Chain. I've already been toying with the idea of adding Ulvenwald Hydra there just for Reach and fetching any Land into play. Right now, my 6 drops are Extractor Demon, Gempalm Polluter and Gravespawn Sovereign - which is crap because the Polluter is effectively a 2 drop and I never Pod for it anyway. Between the two, I think I would like to cut the Sovereign more but I'm losing a lot of potency here plus the Demon does great work too!
I've realized that since I can sac a Zombie and get anything, this guarantees Cabal Coffers+Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth even moreso - meaning I need to find a cut for it.
And I'm trying to ignore my average CMC trending upwards instead of the correct way, downwards.
I think the four changes you're making are good ones; they seem pretty solid. Ulvenwald Hydra is not a bad card to have, I just don't run it because my list is too tight as it is.
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The thing about Deadbridge Chant and why I did cut it from my build a while ago is: The randomness. With a graveyard so big you can't use a D20 to pick a card at random. And you are not allowed to shuffle the graveyard (to randomize it and pick a card) because of the possibility to run into cards like Phyrexian Frunace. It may work online, but offline Deadbridge Chant is a hassle, it slows the game down to a point where my playgroup eyerolls on each of my upkeeps. I put in Liliana, Death's Majesty for it and she is so much worth it.
I'm still thinking about what to cut for the new CoW on a stick and don't even know if I would include Razaketh at all. If so, I would cut Rune-Scarred Demon for him.
Also I find Protean Hulk too boring. It is efficient, yes, but it had a reason to be banned and I don't want to invest in a card that is likely to be banned again in the next months. I left Butcher of Malakir in the deck, he saved me often enough.
The thing about Deadbridge Chant and why I did cut it from my build a while ago is: The randomness. With a graveyard so big you can't use a D20 to pick a card at random. And you are not allowed to shuffle the graveyard (to randomize it and pick a card) because of the possibility to run into cards like Phyrexian Frunace. It may work online, but offline Deadbridge Chant is a hassle, it slows the game down to a point where my playgroup eyerolls on each of my upkeeps. I put in Liliana, Death's Majesty for it and she is so much worth it.
I'm still thinking about what to cut for the new CoW on a stick and don't even know if I would include Razaketh at all. If so, I would cut Rune-Scarred Demon for him.
Also I find Protean Hulk too boring. It is efficient, yes, but it had a reason to be banned and I don't want to invest in a card that is likely to be banned again in the next months. I left Butcher of Malakir in the deck, he saved me often enough.
As far as Protean Hulk is concerned, it's way more broken than Braids, Cabal Minion and Prophet of Kruphix. How it got unbanned is still a mystery to me. However, if you don't want to fork over some lettuce for it, it's understandable. Butcher of Malakir was always a great card; it's a Dictate of Erebos on a body. So it triggers Sidisi and it's reanimatable. However, a cut had to be made.
The Amonkhet Liliana is great, and I'd like to find some room for her in my Main Build. The Zombie Build won't run her because it already has 2 Liliana's already. That being said, I'd probably cut Liliana, Heretical Healer for Liliana Death's Majesty. Although a creature, I don't really use Liliana, Defiant Necromancer's abilities effectively; she's just there for the emblem. So it's not very efficient to have her around - especially now when there's a better Liliana. That list will probably also lose Teferi, Temporal Archmage in favor of The Scarab God.
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I think I'll be going the route of Razaketh, the Foulblooded in place of Deadbridge Chant for my version of the main build. It may seem blasphemous but I'm actually not impressed with the idea of running Ramunap Excavator. There are a couple key interactions I see with it - being able to recur Tolaria West and Academy Ruins. I personally don't run Sequestered Stash. Since there's no Strip Mine shenanigans or the like going on and with how easy it is to hit land drops every turn, I feel like I'd seldom actually use it's ability to justify the slot. Razaketh will easily tutor up any land I need, or anything else for that matter. We run tons of can trips that put lands in our hand as we try to put Creatures into the graveyard. I think at most I'd consider a Crucible of Worlds effect as a meta call if targeted land destruction were popular, but with that and how easy it is to grab back any land with Eternal Witness already in the deck (which does it on ETB instead of sitting on the board as a static ability allowing us to play it). It just doesn't seem like in this deck it offers much mileage with how easy it is to hit land drops turn by turn. If I replace anything to test it, it'll probably be Narcomoeba because I can't tell you how irritating it is when I draw it and it's sitting in my hand, or in my graveyard and no real reason to reanimate it.
I've actually been playing Liliana, Death's Majesty and... I'm not all that impressed by it. Milling another two each turn and getting a 2/2 Zombie is alright. Potentially a pair of 2/2 Zombies if we hit a creature with Sidisi on the board. Her -3 ability hasn't come up much because I'm already reanimating and recurring creatures so much. Often times she sits in my hand because I have other things I'd rather be spending the mana on, or I'm waiting for a good time to protect her. I like Teferi, Temporal Archmage a lot better. He doesn't self-mill, but every time I've used his -1, I've jumped so far ahead of the curve it's unreal. I've never really been sad to draw him, because he almost always pays for himself using the -1 the turn he comes into play untapping four lands (often Nykthos/Gaea's Cradle/Coffers) and allows me to combo out much harder than I would be able to otherwise. There's so many things to spend the mana on and despite the ability to untap lands, almost never enough mana to do all the things you could do and Teferi helps that amazingly. It's like he accelerates the game for you, vs. Lili doing what we're already doing with the rest of the deck, but she does it on a smaller scale.
I am however going to try to use The Scarab God, and I think the talk earlier of Gempalm Polluter going is how I'm going to manage that, too. Gempalm is really good, no doubt, but you never want to hardcast him so he's a dead card in the hand until such time that you can really get a good hit from Cycling him. Scarab God will be doing work all game long, making resources out of opponent's graveyards and hitting every turn for incremental gains as you build the Zombie Horde. They're both good cards, but I like the utility that Scarab God offers and looking at the list, Gempalm is the only thing with a similar function that I can see taking out for it.
Looking forward to hearing everyone's results from testing their changes once we get these cards in our hands I'm one of those silly fools that loves to wait until I have the physical card and play it for real instead of proxies, so I probably won't have much else to say until after the HoU prerelease
I think I'll be going the route of Razaketh, the Foulblooded in place of Deadbridge Chant for my version of the main build. It may seem blasphemous but I'm actually not impressed with the idea of running Ramunap Excavator. There are a couple key interactions I see with it - being able to recur Tolaria West and Academy Ruins. I personally don't run Sequestered Stash. Since there's no Strip Mine shenanigans or the like going on and with how easy it is to hit land drops every turn, I feel like I'd seldom actually use it's ability to justify the slot. Razaketh will easily tutor up any land I need, or anything else for that matter. We run tons of can trips that put lands in our hand as we try to put Creatures into the graveyard. I think at most I'd consider a Crucible of Worlds effect as a meta call if targeted land destruction were popular, but with that and how easy it is to grab back any land with Eternal Witness already in the deck (which does it on ETB instead of sitting on the board as a static ability allowing us to play it). It just doesn't seem like in this deck it offers much mileage with how easy it is to hit land drops turn by turn. If I replace anything to test it, it'll probably be Narcomoeba because I can't tell you how irritating it is when I draw it and it's sitting in my hand, or in my graveyard and no real reason to reanimate it.
I've actually been playing Liliana, Death's Majesty and... I'm not all that impressed by it. Milling another two each turn and getting a 2/2 Zombie is alright. Potentially a pair of 2/2 Zombies if we hit a creature with Sidisi on the board. Her -3 ability hasn't come up much because I'm already reanimating and recurring creatures so much. Often times she sits in my hand because I have other things I'd rather be spending the mana on, or I'm waiting for a good time to protect her. I like Teferi, Temporal Archmage a lot better. He doesn't self-mill, but every time I've used his -1, I've jumped so far ahead of the curve it's unreal. I've never really been sad to draw him, because he almost always pays for himself using the -1 the turn he comes into play untapping four lands (often Nykthos/Gaea's Cradle/Coffers) and allows me to combo out much harder than I would be able to otherwise. There's so many things to spend the mana on and despite the ability to untap lands, almost never enough mana to do all the things you could do and Teferi helps that amazingly. It's like he accelerates the game for you, vs. Lili doing what we're already doing with the rest of the deck, but she does it on a smaller scale.
I am however going to try to use The Scarab God, and I think the talk earlier of Gempalm Polluter going is how I'm going to manage that, too. Gempalm is really good, no doubt, but you never want to hardcast him so he's a dead card in the hand until such time that you can really get a good hit from Cycling him. Scarab God will be doing work all game long, making resources out of opponent's graveyards and hitting every turn for incremental gains as you build the Zombie Horde. They're both good cards, but I like the utility that Scarab God offers and looking at the list, Gempalm is the only thing with a similar function that I can see taking out for it.
Looking forward to hearing everyone's results from testing their changes once we get these cards in our hands I'm one of those silly fools that loves to wait until I have the physical card and play it for real instead of proxies, so I probably won't have much else to say until after the HoU prerelease
You have lots of valid points on the planeswalker swaps I'm considering. The problem I was having with Teferi was that I was only constantly <-1>'ing him. Of course, that's not so much of a bad thing. He really accelerates my game. Maybe I will keep him and swap out Deadbridge Chant for Liliana's 3rd Nemesis - which was my first feeling above all else. As for Ramunap Excavator, I feel that it'll work better in my Mazirek deck since I actually use Crucible of Worlds in it - something I don't run in any of my Sidisi builds. It wouldn't be bad to test, though, being as I can play a land from my graveyard. I also lowered the amount of double-mana lands in the deck, so maybe so many land untappers is a bit superfluous compared to actually playing lands. That being said, Splendid Reclamation has always been enough for me as far as land recovery is concerned.
All things considered, these will be the changes I'll be testing when Hour of Devastation gets updated into Cockatrice: Main Build Deadbridge Chant . . Razaketh the Foulblooded
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Well, Ipnu Rivulet seems like a decent include. I'm not sure what land we're looking to replace for it, though.
Doesn't ETB tapped and taps for colorless, or Blue for 1 life, and we can self mill with it. Might have to change my mind about Ramunap Excavator with both this andSequestered Stash, but maybe we should run this in place of it? Considering it costs 2 less mana and taps for color, even though it's not finding us an Artifact, but that's what tutors and Tezzeret are for. I like the milling for 4 for 1U on the Rivulet
The other two in Sultai colors are Hashep Oasis and Ifnir Dreadlands, but I'm not feeling them, especially with the Sorcery speed clause.
Well, Ipnu Rivulet seems like a decent include. I'm not sure what land we're looking to replace for it, though.
Doesn't ETB tapped and taps for colorless, or Blue for 1 life, and we can self mill with it. Might have to change my mind about Ramunap Excavator with both this andSequestered Stash, but maybe we should run this in place of it? Considering it costs 2 less mana and taps for color, even though it's not finding us an Artifact, but that's what tutors and Tezzeret are for. I like the milling for 4 for 1U on the Rivulet
The other two in Sultai colors are Hashep Oasis and Ifnir Dreadlands, but I'm not feeling them, especially with the Sorcery speed clause.
yes, but what lands do you cut out for this? And to add even more deserts if you really want to abuse this? The land base is quite polished as is right now after all.
Well, Ipnu Rivulet seems like a decent include. I'm not sure what land we're looking to replace for it, though.
Doesn't ETB tapped and taps for colorless, or Blue for 1 life, and we can self mill with it. Might have to change my mind about Ramunap Excavator with both this andSequestered Stash, but maybe we should run this in place of it? Considering it costs 2 less mana and taps for color, even though it's not finding us an Artifact, but that's what tutors and Tezzeret are for. I like the milling for 4 for 1U on the Rivulet
The other two in Sultai colors are Hashep Oasis and Ifnir Dreadlands, but I'm not feeling them, especially with the Sorcery speed clause.
I like your points on how it doesn't enter the battlefield tapped and provides U for a price. It also self-mills for very cheap. However, since the deck doesn't run any other deserts, it would have to be sacrificing itself in order to get the self-mill going on. What I don't like about it is that it only self-mills and I have no added benefit from it. I don't want to run too many cards like that in the deck (I'm already running Nephalia Drownyard and for costing 1 more it stays on the battlefield afterwards). If it's cheap, I could possibly include it in the Budget Deck.
yes, but what lands do you cut out for this? And to add even more deserts if you really want to abuse this? The land base is quite polished as is right now after all.
I agree as to the land base. However, there are a few lands that only provide . ., which is why I play Chromatic Lantern. Getting stuck with those early on can be a nuissance. This land being able to at least provide U is its saving grace.
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While we're talking about how awesome your land base is, they just gave us a card that is worth a look see. Hour of Promise
This card deserves a look at. If anything, just from how powerful it is with the better land base we're running. It does more then grab just 2 lands for 5CMC. If it was just that, it wouldn't be worth a look even in a ramp deck. It grabs 2 lands of any kind and puts them both in play. That includes our utility lands. First thing I see is grabbing Coffer-Borg. And that's just the start.
It's almost as though Wizards felt bad for EDH players not getting to run Prime Time and gave us a bone. Granted, this ain't Prime Time. But it's about as close as we can expect to ever get. Now, I know that there are issues. It IS 5CMC after all. And it's sorcery speed. Worst part of it for this build is that it doesn't come on a body. That part really kicks us in the tender bits. But, just how much it can put us ahead in one swing is worth thinking about. I would normally say that it has it's place in budget builds, but the power behind it leads more for having the shinny high $$$ land bases.
Just my two cents...
- edit - And yes, I know that the making 2 bodies off of it is not going to be a thing here. While we love our walker bodies (sorry, been watching too much TWD/FTWD this week), we won't be running enough to trigger it.
Missed that when I read the card. Another Tempt with Discovery, or replace Tempt so our opponents don't get value.
But it's damned expensive and not a Creature.
This set is awful, it's making me make decisions. :/
It's FAR better then Tempt. Only more for a second land and you aren't going to help your opponents. It's that last part that makes it so better. With Tempt, whatever you grab, the table will grab their strip mine's in response. End result, you just used 4 mana to chuck the best lands in your deck into the GY.
And you say that the set is awful? I that we are getting so many new toys to work with. Not just with this deck, but a ton of decks!!!
While we're talking about how awesome your land base is, they just gave us a card that is worth a look see. Hour of Promise
This card deserves a look at. If anything, just from how powerful it is with the better land base we're running. It does more then grab just 2 lands for 5CMC. If it was just that, it wouldn't be worth a look even in a ramp deck. It grabs 2 lands of any kind and puts them both in play. That includes our utility lands. First thing I see is grabbing Coffer-Borg. And that's just the start.
It's almost as though Wizards felt bad for EDH players not getting to run Prime Time and gave us a bone. Granted, this ain't Prime Time. But it's about as close as we can expect to ever get. Now, I know that there are issues. It IS 5CMC after all. And it's sorcery speed. Worst part of it for this build is that it doesn't come on a body. That part really kicks us in the tender bits. But, just how much it can put us ahead in one swing is worth thinking about. I would normally say that it has it's place in budget builds, but the power behind it leads more for having the shinny high $$$ land bases.
Just my two cents...
- edit - And yes, I know that the making 2 bodies off of it is not going to be a thing here. While we love our walker bodies (sorry, been watching too much TWD/FTWD this week), we won't be running enough to trigger it.
This card is definitely worth considering since it can get Urborg/Coffers in one fell swoop. It can also get Gaea's Cradle and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, which are two lands that also produce a ton of mana. Even if not on a body, it's definitely worth considering. Yet, the problem as always, how to find a slot for it? It's very difficult finding space for cards in this deck. My golden rules have always been:
1) swap for something strictly better
2) swap if it has the same effect on a body.
However, as you stated, it gets that sweet Urborg/Coffers combo. I don't know if it's easier to get that combo in play using Ramunap Excavator as the lands are being milled or to tutor them outright with Hour of Promise. The problem with instants, sorceries, planeswalkers, and enchantment cards is that it's not simple to recover or play them from the graveyard. So if it gets milled, chances are that it'll be in the graveyard for quite some time...
That being said, the card is incredibly awesome and I already found a slot for it in my Polukranos deck. It's simply too broken for it to pass up!
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Missed that when I read the card. Another Tempt with Discovery, or replace Tempt so our opponents don't get value.
But it's damned expensive and not a Creature.
This set is awful, it's making me make decisions. :/
It's FAR better then Tempt. Only more for a second land and you aren't going to help your opponents. It's that last part that makes it so better. With Tempt, whatever you grab, the table will grab their strip mine's in response. End result, you just used 4 mana to chuck the best lands in your deck into the GY.
And you say that the set is awful? I that we are getting so many new toys to work with. Not just with this deck, but a ton of decks!!!
This entire block has been a smorgasbord for the commander format! So many insane legendary creatures and cards. If it weren't so easy to buy singles, I'd buy a box to play draft, sell the chaff, and then use what I can for commander.
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While we're talking about how awesome your land base is, they just gave us a card that is worth a look see. Hour of Promise
This card deserves a look at. If anything, just from how powerful it is with the better land base we're running. It does more then grab just 2 lands for 5CMC. If it was just that, it wouldn't be worth a look even in a ramp deck. It grabs 2 lands of any kind and puts them both in play. That includes our utility lands. First thing I see is grabbing Coffer-Borg. And that's just the start.
It's almost as though Wizards felt bad for EDH players not getting to run Prime Time and gave us a bone. Granted, this ain't Prime Time. But it's about as close as we can expect to ever get. Now, I know that there are issues. It IS 5CMC after all. And it's sorcery speed. Worst part of it for this build is that it doesn't come on a body. That part really kicks us in the tender bits. But, just how much it can put us ahead in one swing is worth thinking about. I would normally say that it has it's place in budget builds, but the power behind it leads more for having the shinny high $$$ land bases.
Just my two cents...
- edit - And yes, I know that the making 2 bodies off of it is not going to be a thing here. While we love our walker bodies (sorry, been watching too much TWD/FTWD this week), we won't be running enough to trigger it.
This card is definitely worth considering since it can get Urborg/Coffers in one fell swoop. It can also get Gaea's Cradle and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, which are two lands that also produce a ton of mana. Even if not on a body, it's definitely worth considering. Yet, the problem as always, how to find a slot for it? It's very difficult finding space for cards in this deck. My golden rules have always been:
1) swap for something strictly better
2) swap if it has the same effect on a body.
However, as you stated, it gets that sweet Urborg/Coffers combo. I don't know if it's easier to get that combo in play using Ramunap Excavator as the lands are being milled or to tutor them outright with Hour of Promise. The problem with instants, sorceries, planeswalkers, and enchantment cards is that it's not simple to recover or play them from the graveyard. So if it gets milled, chances are that it'll be in the graveyard for quite some time...
That being said, the card is incredibly awesome and I already found a slot for it in my Polukranos deck. It's simply too broken for it to pass up!
I know that I'll draw a lot of hate for this... But it might almost be worth the slot of Expedition Map... Yes yes, I know that the CMC difference is huge. Map, due to it's cost is early game fixing. But this is a trade for a non creature slot. And the card we're looking at grabs 2 lands and puts them in play, not to hand. Only bad thing about running such a tuned deck lol. Likely not a good trade, but I don't want to touch the creature base. *sigh*
I know that I'll draw a lot of hate for this... But it might almost be worth the slot of Expedition Map... Yes yes, I know that the CMC difference is huge. Map, due to it's cost is early game fixing. But this is a trade for a non creature slot. And the card we're looking at grabs 2 lands and puts them in play, not to hand. Only bad thing about running such a tuned deck lol. Likely not a good trade, but I don't want to touch the creature base. *sigh*
I can understand the logic behind your reasoning. It's not such a bad trade since it's a noncreature for a noncreature.
Let's look at the pros of Expedition Map vs its cons:
PROS
- can be used very early game (or at any point in the match)
- can be easily recurred or recovered in comparison
- only requires 3 net mana to use
CONS
- only one land
- it tutors to your hand
Let's look at the pros and cons of Hour of Promise:
PROS
- tutors for two lands
- lands enter the battlefield
CONS
- expensive to cast
- not easy to recover or recur in comparison
Expedition Map has one more pro than Hour of Promise. However, how much better is its set of pros against Hour of Promise? How much worse are Hour of Promise's cons than Expedition Map? If I cast Expedition Map turn 1 and get, say, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in my hand in turn 2. So what? What about Gaea's Cradle? Any of the broken lands in the deck aren't broken in the first couple of turns anyways. So its tempo advantage is practically negligible. If that were the only reason to hold back, it's not really a good enough reason to do so. The only thing that would really hold me back is how difficult it would be to recur if it gets milled. Basically, the only card that would get it into my hand is Eternal Witness. That's the only true drawback to it. Expedition Map gets recurred by Sequestered Stash and Academy Ruins. It may seem like it's only recurred by two more cards in comparison, but Expedition Map can also get tutored into play by Tezzeret the Seeker.
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Seer of the Last Tomorrow just got spoiled and I've got to say that I'm contemplating adding this; it should definitely go in the budget build, but even non-budget. Some cards I want in my Graveyard, not in my hand and this spellshaper then mills me for even more value.
Seer of the Last Tomorrow just got spoiled and I've got to say that I'm contemplating adding this; it should definitely go in the budget build, but even non-budget. Some cards I want in my Graveyard, not in my hand and this spellshaper then mills me for even more value.
It's definitely worth testing in the Budget Build. As far as being a shoe-in in the Main Build, I don't really think it's that impacting to be included. I mean, what would even be swapped out for it? It's not really better than anything else in the deck so far.
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One of things I've noticed with the deck is sometimes I want to Discard a card but I don't have too many options to do so. This spellshaper is something I can use. I'm not too sure if I would use it, but it's got me considering, especially since it is just a Common.
One of things I've noticed with the deck is sometimes I want to Discard a card but I don't have too many options to do so. This spellshaper is something I can use. I'm not too sure if I would use it, but it's got me considering, especially since it is just a Common.
The only cards worth being in the graveyard are lands for Splendid Reclamation or creatures for reanimation (which would be cheaper than casting) - and I've been there. However, Seer of the Last Tomorrow needs to tap to do the ability. I would rather use something like Survival of the Fittest, which serves both as a discard outlet and a tutor (which I already have). If you wanna be useful about what to discard, Mind Over Matter is a great card, albeit a trifle difficult in casting due to the quadruple blue.
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I'm thinking more along the lines of dumping a Creature with Dredge into the yard to guarantee Zombie action. If Wizards ever prints a Creature that Sacrifices Creatures at no cost and Discards at maybe a tap, I would go bananas.
I'm thinking more along the lines of dumping a Creature with Dredge into the yard to guarantee Zombie action. If Wizards ever prints a Creature that Sacrifices Creatures at no cost and Discards at maybe a tap, I would go bananas.
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I'm thinking more along the lines of dumping a Creature with Dredge into the yard to guarantee Zombie action. If Wizards ever prints a Creature that Sacrifices Creatures at no cost and Discards at maybe a tap, I would go bananas.
I'm at 41 Creatures and 40 Lands. It's a rough choice. So far, my desired swaps for my list are:
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 The Scarab God
1 Expedition Map
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Avenging Druid
1 Undead Alchemist
I've realized that since I can sac a Zombie and get anything, this guarantees Cabal Coffers+Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth even moreso - meaning I need to find a cut for it.
And I'm trying to ignore my average CMC trending upwards instead of the correct way, downwards.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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I'm still thinking about what to cut for the new CoW on a stick and don't even know if I would include Razaketh at all. If so, I would cut Rune-Scarred Demon for him.
Also I find Protean Hulk too boring. It is efficient, yes, but it had a reason to be banned and I don't want to invest in a card that is likely to be banned again in the next months. I left Butcher of Malakir in the deck, he saved me often enough.
You have a strong point on Deadbridge Chant.
That will probably be my cut for Razaketh the Foulblooded. For the moment Teferi, Temporal Archmage will be the cut for Ramunap Excavator.*: I've changed my mind; see below.
As far as Protean Hulk is concerned, it's way more broken than Braids, Cabal Minion and Prophet of Kruphix. How it got unbanned is still a mystery to me. However, if you don't want to fork over some lettuce for it, it's understandable. Butcher of Malakir was always a great card; it's a Dictate of Erebos on a body. So it triggers Sidisi and it's reanimatable. However, a cut had to be made.
The Amonkhet Liliana is great, and I'd like to find some room for her in my Main Build. The Zombie Build won't run her because it already has 2 Liliana's already. That being said, I'd probably cut Liliana, Heretical Healer for Liliana Death's Majesty. Although a creature, I don't really use Liliana, Defiant Necromancer's abilities effectively; she's just there for the emblem. So it's not very efficient to have her around - especially now when there's a better Liliana. That list will probably also lose Teferi, Temporal Archmage in favor of The Scarab God.
Here're the potential cuts so far (93/199 cards revealed so far):
Main Build
Deadbridge Chant Ramunap Excavator
Teferi, Temporal Archmage Liliana, Death's Majesty
Zombie Build
Teferi, Temporal Archmage The Scarab God
Liliana, Heretical Healer Liliana, Death's Majesty
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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I've actually been playing Liliana, Death's Majesty and... I'm not all that impressed by it. Milling another two each turn and getting a 2/2 Zombie is alright. Potentially a pair of 2/2 Zombies if we hit a creature with Sidisi on the board. Her -3 ability hasn't come up much because I'm already reanimating and recurring creatures so much. Often times she sits in my hand because I have other things I'd rather be spending the mana on, or I'm waiting for a good time to protect her. I like Teferi, Temporal Archmage a lot better. He doesn't self-mill, but every time I've used his -1, I've jumped so far ahead of the curve it's unreal. I've never really been sad to draw him, because he almost always pays for himself using the -1 the turn he comes into play untapping four lands (often Nykthos/Gaea's Cradle/Coffers) and allows me to combo out much harder than I would be able to otherwise. There's so many things to spend the mana on and despite the ability to untap lands, almost never enough mana to do all the things you could do and Teferi helps that amazingly. It's like he accelerates the game for you, vs. Lili doing what we're already doing with the rest of the deck, but she does it on a smaller scale.
I am however going to try to use The Scarab God, and I think the talk earlier of Gempalm Polluter going is how I'm going to manage that, too. Gempalm is really good, no doubt, but you never want to hardcast him so he's a dead card in the hand until such time that you can really get a good hit from Cycling him. Scarab God will be doing work all game long, making resources out of opponent's graveyards and hitting every turn for incremental gains as you build the Zombie Horde. They're both good cards, but I like the utility that Scarab God offers and looking at the list, Gempalm is the only thing with a similar function that I can see taking out for it.
Looking forward to hearing everyone's results from testing their changes once we get these cards in our hands I'm one of those silly fools that loves to wait until I have the physical card and play it for real instead of proxies, so I probably won't have much else to say until after the HoU prerelease
(Also known as Xenphire)
You have lots of valid points on the planeswalker swaps I'm considering. The problem I was having with Teferi was that I was only constantly <-1>'ing him. Of course, that's not so much of a bad thing. He really accelerates my game. Maybe I will keep him and swap out Deadbridge Chant for Liliana's 3rd Nemesis - which was my first feeling above all else. As for Ramunap Excavator, I feel that it'll work better in my Mazirek deck since I actually use Crucible of Worlds in it - something I don't run in any of my Sidisi builds. It wouldn't be bad to test, though, being as I can play a land from my graveyard. I also lowered the amount of double-mana lands in the deck, so maybe so many land untappers is a bit superfluous compared to actually playing lands. That being said, Splendid Reclamation has always been enough for me as far as land recovery is concerned.
All things considered, these will be the changes I'll be testing when Hour of Devastation gets updated into Cockatrice:
Main Build
Deadbridge Chant . . Razaketh the Foulblooded
Zombie Build
Liliana, Heretical Healer . . The Scarab God
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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Doesn't ETB tapped and taps for colorless, or Blue for 1 life, and we can self mill with it. Might have to change my mind about Ramunap Excavator with both this and Sequestered Stash, but maybe we should run this in place of it? Considering it costs 2 less mana and taps for color, even though it's not finding us an Artifact, but that's what tutors and Tezzeret are for. I like the milling for 4 for 1U on the Rivulet
The other two in Sultai colors are Hashep Oasis and Ifnir Dreadlands, but I'm not feeling them, especially with the Sorcery speed clause.
(Also known as Xenphire)
yes, but what lands do you cut out for this? And to add even more deserts if you really want to abuse this? The land base is quite polished as is right now after all.
Goblin Green Acres
I like your points on how it doesn't enter the battlefield tapped and provides U for a price. It also self-mills for very cheap. However, since the deck doesn't run any other deserts, it would have to be sacrificing itself in order to get the self-mill going on. What I don't like about it is that it only self-mills and I have no added benefit from it. I don't want to run too many cards like that in the deck (I'm already running Nephalia Drownyard and for costing 1 more it stays on the battlefield afterwards). If it's cheap, I could possibly include it in the Budget Deck.
I agree as to the land base. However, there are a few lands that only provide . ., which is why I play Chromatic Lantern. Getting stuck with those early on can be a nuissance. This land being able to at least provide U is its saving grace.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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Hour of Promise
This card deserves a look at. If anything, just from how powerful it is with the better land base we're running. It does more then grab just 2 lands for 5CMC. If it was just that, it wouldn't be worth a look even in a ramp deck. It grabs 2 lands of any kind and puts them both in play. That includes our utility lands. First thing I see is grabbing Coffer-Borg. And that's just the start.
It's almost as though Wizards felt bad for EDH players not getting to run Prime Time and gave us a bone. Granted, this ain't Prime Time. But it's about as close as we can expect to ever get. Now, I know that there are issues. It IS 5CMC after all. And it's sorcery speed. Worst part of it for this build is that it doesn't come on a body. That part really kicks us in the tender bits. But, just how much it can put us ahead in one swing is worth thinking about. I would normally say that it has it's place in budget builds, but the power behind it leads more for having the shinny high $$$ land bases.
Just my two cents...
- edit - And yes, I know that the making 2 bodies off of it is not going to be a thing here. While we love our walker bodies (sorry, been watching too much TWD/FTWD this week), we won't be running enough to trigger it.
Goblin Green Acres
But it's damned expensive and not a Creature.
This set is awful, it's making me make decisions. :/
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It's FAR better then Tempt. Only more for a second land and you aren't going to help your opponents. It's that last part that makes it so better. With Tempt, whatever you grab, the table will grab their strip mine's in response. End result, you just used 4 mana to chuck the best lands in your deck into the GY.
And you say that the set is awful? I that we are getting so many new toys to work with. Not just with this deck, but a ton of decks!!!
Goblin Green Acres
This card is definitely worth considering since it can get Urborg/Coffers in one fell swoop. It can also get Gaea's Cradle and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, which are two lands that also produce a ton of mana. Even if not on a body, it's definitely worth considering. Yet, the problem as always, how to find a slot for it? It's very difficult finding space for cards in this deck. My golden rules have always been:
1) swap for something strictly better
2) swap if it has the same effect on a body.
However, as you stated, it gets that sweet Urborg/Coffers combo. I don't know if it's easier to get that combo in play using Ramunap Excavator as the lands are being milled or to tutor them outright with Hour of Promise. The problem with instants, sorceries, planeswalkers, and enchantment cards is that it's not simple to recover or play them from the graveyard. So if it gets milled, chances are that it'll be in the graveyard for quite some time...
That being said, the card is incredibly awesome and I already found a slot for it in my Polukranos deck. It's simply too broken for it to pass up!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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This entire block has been a smorgasbord for the commander format! So many insane legendary creatures and cards. If it weren't so easy to buy singles, I'd buy a box to play draft, sell the chaff, and then use what I can for commander.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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I know that I'll draw a lot of hate for this... But it might almost be worth the slot of Expedition Map... Yes yes, I know that the CMC difference is huge. Map, due to it's cost is early game fixing. But this is a trade for a non creature slot. And the card we're looking at grabs 2 lands and puts them in play, not to hand. Only bad thing about running such a tuned deck lol. Likely not a good trade, but I don't want to touch the creature base. *sigh*
Goblin Green Acres
I can understand the logic behind your reasoning. It's not such a bad trade since it's a noncreature for a noncreature.
Let's look at the pros of Expedition Map vs its cons:
PROS
- can be used very early game (or at any point in the match)
- can be easily recurred or recovered in comparison
- only requires 3 net mana to use
CONS
- only one land
- it tutors to your hand
Let's look at the pros and cons of Hour of Promise:
PROS
- tutors for two lands
- lands enter the battlefield
CONS
- expensive to cast
- not easy to recover or recur in comparison
Expedition Map has one more pro than Hour of Promise. However, how much better is its set of pros against Hour of Promise? How much worse are Hour of Promise's cons than Expedition Map? If I cast Expedition Map turn 1 and get, say, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in my hand in turn 2. So what? What about Gaea's Cradle? Any of the broken lands in the deck aren't broken in the first couple of turns anyways. So its tempo advantage is practically negligible. If that were the only reason to hold back, it's not really a good enough reason to do so. The only thing that would really hold me back is how difficult it would be to recur if it gets milled. Basically, the only card that would get it into my hand is Eternal Witness. That's the only true drawback to it. Expedition Map gets recurred by Sequestered Stash and Academy Ruins. It may seem like it's only recurred by two more cards in comparison, but Expedition Map can also get tutored into play by Tezzeret the Seeker.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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For that difference in mana, I would rather play Expedition Map than Sylvan Scrying because the map is easier to recover than Sylvan Scrying is.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
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Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
It's definitely worth testing in the Budget Build. As far as being a shoe-in in the Main Build, I don't really think it's that impacting to be included. I mean, what would even be swapped out for it? It's not really better than anything else in the deck so far.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
The only cards worth being in the graveyard are lands for Splendid Reclamation or creatures for reanimation (which would be cheaper than casting) - and I've been there. However, Seer of the Last Tomorrow needs to tap to do the ability. I would rather use something like Survival of the Fittest, which serves both as a discard outlet and a tutor (which I already have). If you wanna be useful about what to discard, Mind Over Matter is a great card, albeit a trifle difficult in casting due to the quadruple blue.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Yeah, I hear ya. Maybe sooner than later.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
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Well... There IS Sadistic Hypnotist. Just saying...
Goblin Green Acres