Here is a quick take on Lovisa Coldeyes. I have been noticing an uptake in playable red warriors and have some bit of hope that we see a big resurgence of playable red creatures for this type of deck coming out of the next block (Khans of Tarkir) just due to the images and names of the set. Regardless though, it seems like the playability of a lot of the creatures in her tribes have been going up of late so I figured I would see if I could possibly give her a spin.
Q: Why no Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? A: Kiki is more suited for ETB creatures. In here, he is sort of dependent on having a good beater and then it really depends on what that good beater does still. I feel he is better suited in ETB value decks and just don't feel like he contributes much and is dependent on having a good target which anything will do I suppose but plenty of things don't copy all that well. He also is known to draw attention to himself and he isnt performing at his peak in a deck like this.
Q: Why not include Sword of Feast and Famine? A: I normally feel it is one of the top sword choices. In here though I feel like a lot of the relevant plays I have are sort of isolated to the first main phase. I don't have a lot of instant speed responses and its unlikely that I really need to be dumping my hand. I feel that this sword shines better in decks that are designed more to voltron and or have better card advantage plans to them as it gives them more mana to work with.
Q: Did you consider adding some mass land destruction effects? A: It was definitely one of the first things I thought about. However, I just don't much care for that sort of thing and I think everyone in my meta would be a little ticked off if I did go that direction. I am not opposed to screwing with things a little with some Blood Moon / Ruination effects potentially but I don't really want to delve into Boom // Bust effects.
So, just what I can see off of the top of my head:
While it may be too high on your curve for you to want, Boldwyr Intimidator has some unique synergy with Lovisa.
A protection package for Lovisa could be useful. If she dies, you lose a lot of your advantage.
Extra attack steps are pretty huge, and even though it is a more recent addition to my list, I've been loving Aggravated Assualt.
Looks good though.
I gave your list and all of the changes you have put it through a once over. It was useful in picking up a few ideas for my own build.
Boldwyr Intimidator - I am hesitant right now. He is really expensive to drop and while he does offer some evasion to the attackers its sort of expensive to use. I feel like using swords and equipment are probably better overall.
Protection for Lovisa - I considered it but honestly shroud and indestructable dont do much for me anymore so I would have to consider sac outlets. I think she is strong for this deck but there are plenty of anthems and effects to up the creatures damage in here so I am going more with a diversification idea than worrying about protecting her. I have to deal with instant speed and sweeping based tuck effects enough that I find it easier to just play more buffs than to figure out how to make the commander work all of the time.
Extra Attacks - they are solid but at the same time I think they are often more or less the same value as something like Rage Reflection but they cost me mana and a card for a one time effect. In the case of Aggravated Assualt, it has the reusability angle but it takes a TON of mana to drop and use once not to mention assuming you are going to get to use it more than that. I think its a cool card but it costs a lot of mana to drop + activate and it continues to eat up a lot of mana from turn to turn while also being a large target. I think I would rather just use a big buff instead.
Some things I was sort of spying on from your thread:
Goblin Wardriver more anthems are good. I dont know how well I am going to be able to swarm though offhand which is part of why I have limited my anthem stuff a little so far. I like the size for the body we get here.
Renegade Warlord similar to wardriver but slightly larger with first strike for 3 more mana. I am not crazy about the change in size vs the increase in mana we have here but similar thoughts as the wardriver I guess...
Warstorm Surge I... really overlooked this. I think I am going to go and find some room for it right away.
Raging River I had it in my head that this was a $50.00 - $100.00 card... There seems to be a cheap white bordered edition though so I might have to consider testing this. Its more of a flavor thing than anything but it seems really cool for the theme of what is going on here.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx doh... I forgot to consider this here. I usually play sort of permenant light decks so half the time this doesnt work for my mono colored decks but this is definitely one that it works in.
Taurean Mauler a nice big body to hit people with... I forget that he is a thing just because he doesn't fit most of the decks that might consider him.
I really like the synergy of Lovisa and Falkenrath Marauders, makes it big scary really quick.
I like Markov Blademaster even more as I think there is more potential there but both are cool.
DECK CHANGES:
Planar Chaos -> Warstorm Surge Planar Chaos is amusing from a chaotic aspect but its really sort of a winmore style of card. If you arent ahead when you drop it then it can be sort of a bad card. I have seen it do some good work in a Zirilan of the Claw deck but that is in part because he can keep doing productive things with his commander after dropping it.
War's Toll -> Raging River War's Toll can be a really strong card or not matter at all. Considering this is an offensive deck I dont know if this card actually serves as good of a purpose as I would want it to. Its better at just throwing people off balance but if they are just defending themselves from me it makes it less good. The river seems super flavorful and fits the deck well.
Imperial Recruiter -> Goblin Wardriver Realisitically, I wont be getting a recruiter soon so I might as well cycle him off of the list for now. I just have too many other projects to get him at the moment. Perhaps in the future (I keep telling myself that).
1 Mountain -> Spinerock Knoll it seems to be the type of deck that can achieve this so we get some value on a land.
1 Mountain -> Grand Melee I feel like I can possibly run a little land light as I am trying to keep my count down. Grand Melee seems super fun in general and can act as removal for me which I find hilarious as everyone has to attack and block. It screws with blocking more than anything and I like that.
Academy Raider -> Mind's Eye raiders seem like a bad beater and bad draw. I might as well just bring it up to better draw and call it a day.
I'll admit that my list is meant to be a lot more on theme. At the time I'd built it, there wasn't a whole lot to work with (a lot of includes are my pet cards, such as Balduvian Barbarians). I'm slowly evolving it to be a bit better, but this is also the deck I love to use when introducing new players, because everything aside from Raging River is simple to explain.
On a side note, Raging River, while not the strongest card, is pretty funny to watch in action.
Edit: Well... MTGS just exploded for my phone. I think it took care of the duplicate posts, but I apologize if I missed something. >.<
I'll admit that my list is meant to be a lot more on theme. At the time I'd built it, there wasn't a whole lot to work with (a lot of includes are my pet cards, such as Balduvian Barbarians). I'm slowly evolving it to be a bit better, but this is also the deck I love to use when introducing new players, because everything aside from Raging River is simple to explain.
On a side note, Raging River, while not the strongest card, is pretty funny to watch in action.
Edit: Well... MTGS just exploded for my phone. I think it took care of the duplicate posts, but I apologize if I missed something. >.<
Its something I am willing to try out. Its likely that it just makes it require two+ blockers to block anything but I can choose to bypass big blockers entirely and force opponents into having more blockers to do blocks. Its not super eligant but it seems really interesting to me and when combined with sword protections it seems like it would screw with people even further and due to the flavor of the card, I think I would be willing to run it. I think it would be really funny to have Grand Melee and Raging River in play at the same time as it would give me a situation very similar to Odric, Master Tactician in mono red.
EDIT: giving a little more thought to the changes I outlined above, I think I am going to make one swap.
DECK CHANGE:
Goblin Wardriver -> Taurean Mauler I just don't know how often I am going to be able to really swarm big in here. I think I am better off taking the bigger power of the Mauler and going with that for now. I have the swords and such to give evasions and make less numbers count. The wardriver might be better than Paragon of Fierce Defiance but to be honest I like that the Paragon gives a toughness buff as well and it counts even when he isn't attacking for some purposes. For now, I will probably run without the Wardriver and see how the deck performs before I consider bringing him back in.
It is an option... but honestly I don't really expect them to be going after most of my creatures in list so its likely that I would choose Human to cover Lovisa and even then it seems sort of ehh. I guess just for the sake of it doesn't really cost the deck anything I should add it.
My issue with that card has sort of always been just how unpredictable it is. It comes down to a bit of a math equation and the expectation is sort of 1/3 cards will be lands (I really suck at multiplying probabilities) but it ends up being 2-4 activations as sort of the expected norm with 1/3 of the cards being duds. So, if you pay 6 mana for 0-3 tokens is sort of the area where its really underwhelming. I think on average though the expectation is probably going to be in the 4-8 range (again, not good with multiplying probability). I think that given the synergy with the commander its something I probably have to try out at least. It seems like an interesting card and given the fact that I have some warriors still who do very little on their own its probably worth testing.
I am going to run off to deckstats and do some sample runs of it and let you know how they run.
EDIT: I went to deckstats.net and punched my list in. From there I went to sample hands and then began drawing three cards at a time as a means of just seeing how seeing three cards out of my deck at a time really added up. After each test I took a new hand and then drew three cards at a time to see where the results of casting it would go. There are some slight issues with this such as deck thinning and how I would normally mulligan which would drive the amount of land I would see in my opening hand and early game up generally speaking but these were my test results hitting the deck as if in a situation where I might be casting it:
Test 1:
1 flip one hit
Test 2:
1 flip one hit
Test 3:
7 flip 16 hit
Test 4:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 5:
2 flip 4 hit
Test 6:
1 flip 0 hit
Test 7:
1 flip 2 hit
Test 8:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 9:
2 flip 4 hit
Test 11:
5 flip 11 hit
Test 12:
2 flip 3 hit
Test 13:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 14:
4 flip 10 hit
Test 15:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 16:
1 flip 2 hit
Test 17:
2 flip 3 hit
Test 18:
3 flip 6 hit
Test 19:
2 flip 3 hit
Test 20:
2 flip 4 hit
In those twenty runs, the average number of flips that I got was 1.55 flips on average with 3.7 being the average hits but considering in 20 runs I had three fairly large outliers I feel like the normal number of hits was actually quite low in the 2-3 range. I have to give this one some thought yet but the tests were interesting to say the least.
It was a really sick opener but then I sort of burned out and hit a pocket of land in the midgame. I hit Purphoros, God of the Forge in the midgame which carried me through some of the mid game but he died to an All is Dust. I also got crapped on by a Terastodon after the red deck hit me with a Shattering Spree for my Torpor Orb. Overall it was a ton of fun and I got everyone down in the range of like 15 life in a 5 player game but got super focused lol. Manabarbs and Zo Zu did some serious work in my early game lol. I think I topdecked lands for like 8 straight turns or so it felt in the mid to late game. It also didnt help that the other red deck wheeled and I drew 6 lands and a Mizzium Mortars and then I proceeded to topeck lands most of the rest of the game.
Do you feel like keeping your hand full was a problem? What's your opinion on something like Infiltration Lens or Rogue's Gloves?
How many creatures do you expect to have out at a given time for dudes like Paragon of Fierce Defiance or Furystoke Giant? I don't feel like they see their full potential in decks that don't spit out gorillians of tokens.
One card I've been running with a lot of success in my Radha Fight-Provoke deck is Invasion Plans.
Do you feel like keeping your hand full was a problem? What's your opinion on something like Infiltration Lens or Rogue's Gloves?
How many creatures do you expect to have out at a given time for dudes like Paragon of Fierce Defiance or Furystoke Giant? I don't feel like they see their full potential in decks that don't spit out gorillians of tokens.
One card I've been running with a lot of success in my Radha Fight-Provoke deck is Invasion Plans.
My opening was all really solid. The faithless looting really opened my hand up nicely on turn one and I curved very nicely. The issue was more along the lines of the fact that I was playing an aggro deck in a 5 player game but even then it did really quite well all in all for that. I got super focused most of the game until I was out of things which is also a problem but I still came quite close to killing everyone as when I died, one player was at 2 life and the other at 8 so it was a close game but a deathtouching Marath, Will of the Wild sort of kicked all creature options off the table. What killed me that game was just topdecking all those lands really which I am going to just chalk up to bad luck for now.
Infiltration Lens / Rogue's Gloves of them the lens is far superior but due to the lack of evasion / pump I dont feel that its that strong of a consideration here because most of my creatures are not evasive on their own. I like lens but much more in decks that have evasion on their creatures or plan to pick it up.
Paragon of Fierce Defiance overall I agree with you that he doesn't fit that well. There aren't a lot of other on theme creatures that I really want to add to the list though sadly. He is still a nice effect but a lot of times he is just buffing 1-2 other creatures. This is a tribal deck though so optimal isn't always what you have to work with.
Furystoke Giant I actually like the flexability of this guy, sure I might not clear the board or kill people outright with him but he has persist which means he is more robust and its likely that I would like to use his ability with someone like my commander in play. He gives some removal while being part of the tribe and also having some resiliency.
Invasion Plans that seems like fun. I want to see how the ones I am currently running do before I really consider expanding but its a good find. I will keep that one in mind assuming the ones I currently have work out.
DECK CHANGE:
Viashino Sandstalker -> Academy Raider the bouncing back to hand wasn't very handy when I got him. I do need more draw and so an on theme filter that attacks seems good.
So, I don't know why I didn't think of this card earlier, but Akroma's Memorial earlier. It is expensive, but it gives you a lot of combat benefits.
My issues with it is that its mainly a value over time sort of card that really only gives evasion for increasing damage output. I like it as a card but I have found it answered quickly after dropping quite often and it doesn't really add much to the attack immediately. I think its ok but I cut it from my Marton Stromgald list a while back because it was hard to stick a whole turn generally speaking.
In my experience its not so good as an aggro vs control sort of gameplan so much as a better aggro vs aggro gameplan. Given the normal opponents tend to play more of a midrange / lategame sort of value style decks I don't find it as useful as often.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
So, I don't know why I didn't think of this card earlier, but Akroma's Memorial earlier. It is expensive, but it gives you a lot of combat benefits.
My issues with it is that its mainly a value over time sort of card that really only gives evasion for increasing damage output. I like it as a card but I have found it answered quickly after dropping quite often and it doesn't really add much to the attack immediately. I think its ok but I cut it from my Marton Stromgald list a while back because it was hard to stick a whole turn generally speaking.
In my experience its not so good as an aggro vs control sort of gameplan so much as a better aggro vs aggro gameplan. Given the normal opponents tend to play more of a midrange / lategame sort of value style decks I don't find it as useful as often.
Fair enough. I'm going to put it in my own list, but I try not to play against too many control decks with this particular deck.
How has Zo-Zu the Punisher worked for you? I was sad to take him out of my deck (I play against another Zo-Zu deck with Lovisa regularly, and the life loss got too far out of control most games), but I'm interested to hear about anyone else's experience with him as a member of the 99 and if he's worth recommending.
Fair enough. I'm going to put it in my own list, but I try not to play against too many control decks with this particular deck.
How has Zo-Zu the Punisher worked for you? I was sad to take him out of my deck (I play against another Zo-Zu deck with Lovisa regularly, and the life loss got too far out of control most games), but I'm interested to hear about anyone else's experience with him as a member of the 99 and if he's worth recommending.
I play against more control lists so equivalent life loss is not a problem for me because they generally speaking aren't good at doing output back to me so anything I can do to drop the lifetotals of everyone is usually a good thing for me.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Your list has inspired me to reconvert my Godo list to Lovisa. I used to run her years ago, but it looks like the Warrior pool has notably improved since then.
I used to get there with Goblin Sky Raider holding my various equipment, thankfully there are more flying warriors these days.
Your list has inspired me to reconvert my Godo list to Lovisa. I used to run her years ago, but it looks like the Warrior pool has notably improved since then.
I used to get there with Goblin Sky Raider holding my various equipment, thankfully there are more flying warriors these days.
Lovisa has been on my wishlist for years. I think it was sort of seeing Paragon of Fierce Defiance was a warrior that got me to go back and see what in the last few years has been printed that fits the tribes (then saw that Ogre Battledriver was among them and became more interested). I also am banking on this next block hopefully helping this deck as well just due to the flavor of the set I am assuming we will be hitting some tribal guys going forward. That is just sort of heavy speculation though as we wont know how things go for probably another year.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The list is fun so far. I end up burning out fairly hard in the mid game but don't really mind as its fun to pilot. I am hoping to give myself a little more reach with a few changes. Also a fun little story about last tuesday's game with this deck. It was quite amusing.
I had an epic play last night that I wanted to share.
I was playing my Lovisa Coldeyes deck last night and I had her, a mutavault, and Purphoros, God of the Forge in play. I played a Zealous Conscripts stealing the Zirilan player's Spinerock Knoll (it had a mystery card behind it and he cursed a lot lol). I then swung at a mono green player who had an Oracle of Mul Daya he just played who blocked the conscripts with (who does that at 36 life?). I then activate the knoll having done 9 damage to him that turn and reveal a Dragonstorm that fetches me into my Knollspine Dragon to get myself a new hand lol.
Next turn he shattering spree to hit two of my targets and then hits a Blasphemous Act essentially all as just revenge but it was still a super amusing play lol.
DECK CHANGES:
Inner-Flame Igniter -> Inferno Titan I have actually been running the titan in my list in place of something I was missing and overall its been very useful as it clears out token blockers and potentially pumps up big to hit someone hard. I have also had a bit of a hard time getting swarms of guys so I want to focus a little less on swarm tactics as it doesn't seem to happen very often.
Hellraiser Goblin -> Urabrask the Hidden assuming my commander is in play they are essentially the same size but the goblin has a lot of drawbacks to him where as Urabrask has additional upsides and essentially no drawbacks. I run the hellraiser in my marton deck and essentially I think its a case where the hellraiser is better in combo like decks where they are looking for minimal costs as well as utilizing the goblin tribe which I am not really doing here.
Magus of the Moon -> Prophetic Flamespeaker I have had a lot of issues with burning out my card advantage and so many people target my fun little things so what I decided was to move to some card advantage here and don't worry about the lands thing. I play against so many mono and dual color decks anyways that it has made the moon effects a bit haphazard at times. One of the biggest upsides had been cutting off utility lands such as mazes but whatever. I also really like that the flamespeaker double strikes as it makes him good when you give him equipment.
Stranglehold -> Mad Prophet I have had a hard time with my card advantage and had too many situations where everyone gangs up and beats my fun toys down. Due to this I like the idea of this guy for filtering some cards. I seem to always have issues hitting tons of land in my late game.
Price of Glory -> Crystal Ball I need to go a little more focused towards beating people down and drawing cards. Too many of these fun toys are too situational for this deck in my opinion. The scry ball has done me some good work in several other tutor light lists and I tend to prefer it over things like top when I don't have the shuffle triggers consistently.
Blood Moon -> Pyrohemia out goes a situational toy and in comes a potential wrath / token answer / big shot to the face.
Starstorm -> Comet Storm I like that the Comet Storm is a bit more one sided although it is less useful against big swarms but shooting for the face seems to be something I want to be able to consider.
Cavern of Souls -> Ghitu Encampment its a warrior on a land and I like that. I wasn't really having issues with people trying to counter my beaters so meh.
1 Mountain -> Forgotten Cave there is the option of Smoldering Crater as well but I think I will take these slow for now. I want to see how relevant having a cycle land can be later in the game for this list.
Falkenrath Marauders did some serious work for me last night. I managed to hit him into play on turn three and bring him all the way up to a 16/16 by the end of the game. Unfortunately I lost to the player I was hitting the least when he got a 6/6 flying lifelink creature out and just had too much life for me to really navigate around nicely. He had a Pemmin's Aura + Umbral Mantle on his Chancellor of the Dross and I just couldn't get through it nicely. I ended up swinging at him on my last turn for a ton of damage but he ended up taking 24 (was at 24) but living off of his lifelink. I ended up dying to my own Mana Crypt + Manabarbs as the game got drawn out a bit more but I think if I had played a few turns a little differently I could have won.
I did a few play mistakes that really cost me the game but overall the game went really well (I played a Torpor Orb and then later that turn got a Godo from a hideaway land. I then later ended up swinging godo into a no value death that actually gave the other player a bunch of life which could have been extra damage that I got through on my final turn instead). I still need to make some deck changes like the ones I specified a few days back but haven't gotten around to implementing. I sort of mistakenly clung to a Vulshok Battlemaster all game that just never really ended up working out for me.
EDIT: As a side note, Mizzium Mortars has been fairly bad on several occasions now... I have gotten stuck with it twice now where some big fatty has gotten in my way and I cant really get combat tricks to deal with it. Its going to have to start doing something relevant sometime soon to stay in the list.
I was hunting down cards for the prior changes to the list this weekend when I stumbled across a land I had sort of forgotten about. It seems like it fits what this deck wants to do though so I am going to shift it in.
DECK CHANGE:
Terrain Generator -> Haunted Fengraf I can recall using the generator like once in this deck. Its ability is a lot better in a deck that draws more cards like my marton deck and that cares about the high end land drops which this deck doesn't tend to as much. Haunted Fengraf on the other hand recovers creatures to hand which seems very useful. I often don't really care which creatures I have so long as I have some so this is sort of nice as a recovery tool to keep on trucking. I normally dont like sacrificing a land to do something but in the late game recovering a creature is a lot better than having that land in play. I would rather have late game utility on my lands than early game with this deck.
I don't know how many usable mono-red (hopefully tribal) cards we'll actually get in a multicolored set, but raid looks to be really awkward with Lovisa sadly.
I don't know how many usable mono-red (hopefully tribal) cards we'll actually get in a multicolored set, but raid looks to be really awkward with Lovisa sadly.
I agree. I was actually hoping it was not originally going to be multicolored in general because I feel like we have been getting just run over with multicolored cards in the last two blocks and going forward it looks like we have it again. Ohhh well I guess I will live with it.
Raid - the natural ability unfortunately has terrible interaction with hast based creatures. My hope is that we get some good raid based tribal guys though where we will have this option to play them pre combat as an attacker or post combat for a strong ETB ability. I will be very annoyed if they end up being conditional bad ETB effects in general though. Having a condition to getting an ETB means that you should be reducing the cost and or increasing the potency over normal ETB creatures. If they don't do that I will be rather irritated with them in general.
It is going to be a situation of it will be what it will be. We have gotten a lot of improved tribal guys for Lovisa in the last few blocks though so even if we dont end up with a large number of them the guys that fit the tribe seem to still trickle down. Sometimes I feel like wizards deliberately avoids making things that fit the obscure tribes and creature types which is irritating but luckily Lovisa has a few tribes under her belt.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Grand Melee -> Rally the Horde go big or go home right? This is sort of an all or nothing sort of coin flip but assuming you have Lovisa in play there is a chance that this is a huge horde of face beaters. I had a lot of bad luck with Grand Melee as it ended up everyone beating my face in while they remove my guys. I assume I will be disappointed in the card but I am adding it for that chance to just table flip a game and kill everyone. It also works with Purphoros and Ogre Battledriver so we will see...
With my testing so far, the following cards are sort of in my consideration to cut pile due to issues with their performance:
Vulshok Battlemaster I rarely ever get to steal opponents equipment with him. We run a lot of equipment hate in our meta so not a lot of people bother with equipment in their decks which I find odd but whatever. I have had him stuck in hand with no equipment in play a few times and one time had to hit my own Torpor Orb to get him booted up. For 5 mana my issue is that it doesnt have a bigger starting stat is my issue currently.
Gauntlet of Might I included it in part to just be an anthem but I like never really need the mana boost unless I were to opening hand it. I have drawn into it several times and been disapointed with it. I dont have a lot of mana sinks and my ability to draw cards could be better for this to be good.
Sulfuric Vortex It has drawn hate in my direction a few times now. Its nice as it puts some pressure on my opponents and keeps them off of their lifegain but it has also resulted in me taking a lot of punishment as well. This deck in general doesn't really want to have to defend itself.
Pyrohemia its awkward I guess. I haven't drawn it yet but I think there are better ways to hit people to the face. I need to really not be wrathing the board.
Mizzium Mortars it has situations where it can be amazing and times where I just hate that I have it. Against tokens and ETB guys its great but against random fatties it sucks.
1 Lovisa Coldeyes
CREATURES (27)
1 Kargan Dragonlord
1 Warren Instigator
1 Academy Raider
1 Archetype of Aggression
1 Manic Vandal
1 Markov Blademaster
1 Prophetic Flamespeaker
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
1 Anger
1 Cyclops Gladiator
1 Mad Prophet
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Paragon of Fierce Defiance
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Vengeful Firebrand
1 Falkenrath Marauders
1 Furystoke Giant
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Wrecking Ogre
1 Vulshok Battlemaster
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Inferno Titan
1 Kamahl, Pit Fighter
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Mind Stone
1 Torpor Orb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Crystal Ball
1 Obsidian Battle-Axe
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Mind's Eye
ENCHANTMENT (11)
1 Raging River
1 Five-Alarm Fire
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Manabarbs
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Grip of Chaos
1 Guild Feud
1 Rage Reflection
1 Warstorm Surge
INSTANT (3)
1 Comet Storm
1 Chaos Warp
1 Savage Beating
1 Faithless Looting
1 Gamble
1 Shattering Spree
1 Vandalblast
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Reforge the Soul
PLANESWALKER (1)
1 Chandra Ablaze
LAND (37)
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Kher Keep
23 Mountain
1 Mutavault
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Some things you might be asking:
Q: Why no Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker?
A: Kiki is more suited for ETB creatures. In here, he is sort of dependent on having a good beater and then it really depends on what that good beater does still. I feel he is better suited in ETB value decks and just don't feel like he contributes much and is dependent on having a good target which anything will do I suppose but plenty of things don't copy all that well. He also is known to draw attention to himself and he isnt performing at his peak in a deck like this.
Q: Why not include Sword of Feast and Famine?
A: I normally feel it is one of the top sword choices. In here though I feel like a lot of the relevant plays I have are sort of isolated to the first main phase. I don't have a lot of instant speed responses and its unlikely that I really need to be dumping my hand. I feel that this sword shines better in decks that are designed more to voltron and or have better card advantage plans to them as it gives them more mana to work with.
Q: Did you consider adding some mass land destruction effects?
A: It was definitely one of the first things I thought about. However, I just don't much care for that sort of thing and I think everyone in my meta would be a little ticked off if I did go that direction. I am not opposed to screwing with things a little with some Blood Moon / Ruination effects potentially but I don't really want to delve into Boom // Bust effects.
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[Modern] Allies
So, just what I can see off of the top of my head:
While it may be too high on your curve for you to want, Boldwyr Intimidator has some unique synergy with Lovisa.
A protection package for Lovisa could be useful. If she dies, you lose a lot of your advantage.
Extra attack steps are pretty huge, and even though it is a more recent addition to my list, I've been loving Aggravated Assualt.
Looks good though.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I gave your list and all of the changes you have put it through a once over. It was useful in picking up a few ideas for my own build.
Boldwyr Intimidator - I am hesitant right now. He is really expensive to drop and while he does offer some evasion to the attackers its sort of expensive to use. I feel like using swords and equipment are probably better overall.
Protection for Lovisa - I considered it but honestly shroud and indestructable dont do much for me anymore so I would have to consider sac outlets. I think she is strong for this deck but there are plenty of anthems and effects to up the creatures damage in here so I am going more with a diversification idea than worrying about protecting her. I have to deal with instant speed and sweeping based tuck effects enough that I find it easier to just play more buffs than to figure out how to make the commander work all of the time.
Extra Attacks - they are solid but at the same time I think they are often more or less the same value as something like Rage Reflection but they cost me mana and a card for a one time effect. In the case of Aggravated Assualt, it has the reusability angle but it takes a TON of mana to drop and use once not to mention assuming you are going to get to use it more than that. I think its a cool card but it costs a lot of mana to drop + activate and it continues to eat up a lot of mana from turn to turn while also being a large target. I think I would rather just use a big buff instead.
Some things I was sort of spying on from your thread:
Goblin Wardriver more anthems are good. I dont know how well I am going to be able to swarm though offhand which is part of why I have limited my anthem stuff a little so far. I like the size for the body we get here.
Renegade Warlord similar to wardriver but slightly larger with first strike for 3 more mana. I am not crazy about the change in size vs the increase in mana we have here but similar thoughts as the wardriver I guess...
Warstorm Surge I... really overlooked this. I think I am going to go and find some room for it right away.
Raging River I had it in my head that this was a $50.00 - $100.00 card... There seems to be a cheap white bordered edition though so I might have to consider testing this. Its more of a flavor thing than anything but it seems really cool for the theme of what is going on here.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx doh... I forgot to consider this here. I usually play sort of permenant light decks so half the time this doesnt work for my mono colored decks but this is definitely one that it works in.
Mind's Eye yea.... I should probably add this...
Taurean Mauler a nice big body to hit people with... I forget that he is a thing just because he doesn't fit most of the decks that might consider him.
I like Markov Blademaster even more as I think there is more potential there but both are cool.
DECK CHANGES:
Planar Chaos -> Warstorm Surge Planar Chaos is amusing from a chaotic aspect but its really sort of a winmore style of card. If you arent ahead when you drop it then it can be sort of a bad card. I have seen it do some good work in a Zirilan of the Claw deck but that is in part because he can keep doing productive things with his commander after dropping it.
War's Toll -> Raging River War's Toll can be a really strong card or not matter at all. Considering this is an offensive deck I dont know if this card actually serves as good of a purpose as I would want it to. Its better at just throwing people off balance but if they are just defending themselves from me it makes it less good. The river seems super flavorful and fits the deck well.
Imperial Recruiter -> Goblin Wardriver Realisitically, I wont be getting a recruiter soon so I might as well cycle him off of the list for now. I just have too many other projects to get him at the moment. Perhaps in the future (I keep telling myself that).
1 Mountain -> Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Totally spaced Nykthos in here... easy add considering the deck consistency.
1 Mountain -> Spinerock Knoll it seems to be the type of deck that can achieve this so we get some value on a land.
1 Mountain -> Grand Melee I feel like I can possibly run a little land light as I am trying to keep my count down. Grand Melee seems super fun in general and can act as removal for me which I find hilarious as everyone has to attack and block. It screws with blocking more than anything and I like that.
Academy Raider -> Mind's Eye raiders seem like a bad beater and bad draw. I might as well just bring it up to better draw and call it a day.
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On a side note, Raging River, while not the strongest card, is pretty funny to watch in action.
Edit: Well... MTGS just exploded for my phone. I think it took care of the duplicate posts, but I apologize if I missed something. >.<
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Its something I am willing to try out. Its likely that it just makes it require two+ blockers to block anything but I can choose to bypass big blockers entirely and force opponents into having more blockers to do blocks. Its not super eligant but it seems really interesting to me and when combined with sword protections it seems like it would screw with people even further and due to the flavor of the card, I think I would be willing to run it. I think it would be really funny to have Grand Melee and Raging River in play at the same time as it would give me a situation very similar to Odric, Master Tactician in mono red.
EDIT: giving a little more thought to the changes I outlined above, I think I am going to make one swap.
DECK CHANGE:
Goblin Wardriver -> Taurean Mauler I just don't know how often I am going to be able to really swarm big in here. I think I am better off taking the bigger power of the Mauler and going with that for now. I have the swords and such to give evasions and make less numbers count. The wardriver might be better than Paragon of Fierce Defiance but to be honest I like that the Paragon gives a toughness buff as well and it counts even when he isn't attacking for some purposes. For now, I will probably run without the Wardriver and see how the deck performs before I consider bringing him back in.
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(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
It is an option... but honestly I don't really expect them to be going after most of my creatures in list so its likely that I would choose Human to cover Lovisa and even then it seems sort of ehh. I guess just for the sake of it doesn't really cost the deck anything I should add it.
DECK CHANGE:
1 Mountain -> Cavern of Souls
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Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
My issue with that card has sort of always been just how unpredictable it is. It comes down to a bit of a math equation and the expectation is sort of 1/3 cards will be lands (I really suck at multiplying probabilities) but it ends up being 2-4 activations as sort of the expected norm with 1/3 of the cards being duds. So, if you pay 6 mana for 0-3 tokens is sort of the area where its really underwhelming. I think on average though the expectation is probably going to be in the 4-8 range (again, not good with multiplying probability). I think that given the synergy with the commander its something I probably have to try out at least. It seems like an interesting card and given the fact that I have some warriors still who do very little on their own its probably worth testing.
I am going to run off to deckstats and do some sample runs of it and let you know how they run.
EDIT: I went to deckstats.net and punched my list in. From there I went to sample hands and then began drawing three cards at a time as a means of just seeing how seeing three cards out of my deck at a time really added up. After each test I took a new hand and then drew three cards at a time to see where the results of casting it would go. There are some slight issues with this such as deck thinning and how I would normally mulligan which would drive the amount of land I would see in my opening hand and early game up generally speaking but these were my test results hitting the deck as if in a situation where I might be casting it:
Test 1:
1 flip one hit
Test 2:
1 flip one hit
Test 3:
7 flip 16 hit
Test 4:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 5:
2 flip 4 hit
Test 6:
1 flip 0 hit
Test 7:
1 flip 2 hit
Test 8:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 9:
2 flip 4 hit
Test 11:
5 flip 11 hit
Test 12:
2 flip 3 hit
Test 13:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 14:
4 flip 10 hit
Test 15:
1 flip 1 hit
Test 16:
1 flip 2 hit
Test 17:
2 flip 3 hit
Test 18:
3 flip 6 hit
Test 19:
2 flip 3 hit
Test 20:
2 flip 4 hit
In those twenty runs, the average number of flips that I got was 1.55 flips on average with 3.7 being the average hits but considering in 20 runs I had three fairly large outliers I feel like the normal number of hits was actually quite low in the 2-3 range. I have to give this one some thought yet but the tests were interesting to say the least.
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It was a really sick opener but then I sort of burned out and hit a pocket of land in the midgame. I hit Purphoros, God of the Forge in the midgame which carried me through some of the mid game but he died to an All is Dust. I also got crapped on by a Terastodon after the red deck hit me with a Shattering Spree for my Torpor Orb. Overall it was a ton of fun and I got everyone down in the range of like 15 life in a 5 player game but got super focused lol. Manabarbs and Zo Zu did some serious work in my early game lol. I think I topdecked lands for like 8 straight turns or so it felt in the mid to late game. It also didnt help that the other red deck wheeled and I drew 6 lands and a Mizzium Mortars and then I proceeded to topeck lands most of the rest of the game.
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How many creatures do you expect to have out at a given time for dudes like Paragon of Fierce Defiance or Furystoke Giant? I don't feel like they see their full potential in decks that don't spit out gorillians of tokens.
One card I've been running with a lot of success in my Radha Fight-Provoke deck is Invasion Plans.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
My opening was all really solid. The faithless looting really opened my hand up nicely on turn one and I curved very nicely. The issue was more along the lines of the fact that I was playing an aggro deck in a 5 player game but even then it did really quite well all in all for that. I got super focused most of the game until I was out of things which is also a problem but I still came quite close to killing everyone as when I died, one player was at 2 life and the other at 8 so it was a close game but a deathtouching Marath, Will of the Wild sort of kicked all creature options off the table. What killed me that game was just topdecking all those lands really which I am going to just chalk up to bad luck for now.
Infiltration Lens / Rogue's Gloves of them the lens is far superior but due to the lack of evasion / pump I dont feel that its that strong of a consideration here because most of my creatures are not evasive on their own. I like lens but much more in decks that have evasion on their creatures or plan to pick it up.
Paragon of Fierce Defiance overall I agree with you that he doesn't fit that well. There aren't a lot of other on theme creatures that I really want to add to the list though sadly. He is still a nice effect but a lot of times he is just buffing 1-2 other creatures. This is a tribal deck though so optimal isn't always what you have to work with.
Furystoke Giant I actually like the flexability of this guy, sure I might not clear the board or kill people outright with him but he has persist which means he is more robust and its likely that I would like to use his ability with someone like my commander in play. He gives some removal while being part of the tribe and also having some resiliency.
Invasion Plans that seems like fun. I want to see how the ones I am currently running do before I really consider expanding but its a good find. I will keep that one in mind assuming the ones I currently have work out.
DECK CHANGE:
Viashino Sandstalker -> Academy Raider the bouncing back to hand wasn't very handy when I got him. I do need more draw and so an on theme filter that attacks seems good.
1 Mountain -> Mutavault it just fits so well here.
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My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
My issues with it is that its mainly a value over time sort of card that really only gives evasion for increasing damage output. I like it as a card but I have found it answered quickly after dropping quite often and it doesn't really add much to the attack immediately. I think its ok but I cut it from my Marton Stromgald list a while back because it was hard to stick a whole turn generally speaking.
In my experience its not so good as an aggro vs control sort of gameplan so much as a better aggro vs aggro gameplan. Given the normal opponents tend to play more of a midrange / lategame sort of value style decks I don't find it as useful as often.
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Fair enough. I'm going to put it in my own list, but I try not to play against too many control decks with this particular deck.
How has Zo-Zu the Punisher worked for you? I was sad to take him out of my deck (I play against another Zo-Zu deck with Lovisa regularly, and the life loss got too far out of control most games), but I'm interested to hear about anyone else's experience with him as a member of the 99 and if he's worth recommending.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I play against more control lists so equivalent life loss is not a problem for me because they generally speaking aren't good at doing output back to me so anything I can do to drop the lifetotals of everyone is usually a good thing for me.
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[Modern] Allies
I used to get there with Goblin Sky Raider holding my various equipment, thankfully there are more flying warriors these days.
Lovisa has been on my wishlist for years. I think it was sort of seeing Paragon of Fierce Defiance was a warrior that got me to go back and see what in the last few years has been printed that fits the tribes (then saw that Ogre Battledriver was among them and became more interested). I also am banking on this next block hopefully helping this deck as well just due to the flavor of the set I am assuming we will be hitting some tribal guys going forward. That is just sort of heavy speculation though as we wont know how things go for probably another year.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGES:
Inner-Flame Igniter -> Inferno Titan I have actually been running the titan in my list in place of something I was missing and overall its been very useful as it clears out token blockers and potentially pumps up big to hit someone hard. I have also had a bit of a hard time getting swarms of guys so I want to focus a little less on swarm tactics as it doesn't seem to happen very often.
Hellraiser Goblin -> Urabrask the Hidden assuming my commander is in play they are essentially the same size but the goblin has a lot of drawbacks to him where as Urabrask has additional upsides and essentially no drawbacks. I run the hellraiser in my marton deck and essentially I think its a case where the hellraiser is better in combo like decks where they are looking for minimal costs as well as utilizing the goblin tribe which I am not really doing here.
Magus of the Moon -> Prophetic Flamespeaker I have had a lot of issues with burning out my card advantage and so many people target my fun little things so what I decided was to move to some card advantage here and don't worry about the lands thing. I play against so many mono and dual color decks anyways that it has made the moon effects a bit haphazard at times. One of the biggest upsides had been cutting off utility lands such as mazes but whatever. I also really like that the flamespeaker double strikes as it makes him good when you give him equipment.
Stranglehold -> Mad Prophet I have had a hard time with my card advantage and had too many situations where everyone gangs up and beats my fun toys down. Due to this I like the idea of this guy for filtering some cards. I seem to always have issues hitting tons of land in my late game.
Price of Glory -> Crystal Ball I need to go a little more focused towards beating people down and drawing cards. Too many of these fun toys are too situational for this deck in my opinion. The scry ball has done me some good work in several other tutor light lists and I tend to prefer it over things like top when I don't have the shuffle triggers consistently.
Blood Moon -> Pyrohemia out goes a situational toy and in comes a potential wrath / token answer / big shot to the face.
Starstorm -> Comet Storm I like that the Comet Storm is a bit more one sided although it is less useful against big swarms but shooting for the face seems to be something I want to be able to consider.
Cavern of Souls -> Ghitu Encampment its a warrior on a land and I like that. I wasn't really having issues with people trying to counter my beaters so meh.
1 Mountain -> Forgotten Cave there is the option of Smoldering Crater as well but I think I will take these slow for now. I want to see how relevant having a cycle land can be later in the game for this list.
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I did a few play mistakes that really cost me the game but overall the game went really well (I played a Torpor Orb and then later that turn got a Godo from a hideaway land. I then later ended up swinging godo into a no value death that actually gave the other player a bunch of life which could have been extra damage that I got through on my final turn instead). I still need to make some deck changes like the ones I specified a few days back but haven't gotten around to implementing. I sort of mistakenly clung to a Vulshok Battlemaster all game that just never really ended up working out for me.
EDIT: As a side note, Mizzium Mortars has been fairly bad on several occasions now... I have gotten stuck with it twice now where some big fatty has gotten in my way and I cant really get combat tricks to deal with it. Its going to have to start doing something relevant sometime soon to stay in the list.
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[Modern] Allies
DECK CHANGE:
Terrain Generator -> Haunted Fengraf I can recall using the generator like once in this deck. Its ability is a lot better in a deck that draws more cards like my marton deck and that cares about the high end land drops which this deck doesn't tend to as much. Haunted Fengraf on the other hand recovers creatures to hand which seems very useful. I often don't really care which creatures I have so long as I have some so this is sort of nice as a recovery tool to keep on trucking. I normally dont like sacrificing a land to do something but in the late game recovering a creature is a lot better than having that land in play. I would rather have late game utility on my lands than early game with this deck.
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My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I agree. I was actually hoping it was not originally going to be multicolored in general because I feel like we have been getting just run over with multicolored cards in the last two blocks and going forward it looks like we have it again. Ohhh well I guess I will live with it.
Raid - the natural ability unfortunately has terrible interaction with hast based creatures. My hope is that we get some good raid based tribal guys though where we will have this option to play them pre combat as an attacker or post combat for a strong ETB ability. I will be very annoyed if they end up being conditional bad ETB effects in general though. Having a condition to getting an ETB means that you should be reducing the cost and or increasing the potency over normal ETB creatures. If they don't do that I will be rather irritated with them in general.
It is going to be a situation of it will be what it will be. We have gotten a lot of improved tribal guys for Lovisa in the last few blocks though so even if we dont end up with a large number of them the guys that fit the tribe seem to still trickle down. Sometimes I feel like wizards deliberately avoids making things that fit the obscure tribes and creature types which is irritating but luckily Lovisa has a few tribes under her belt.
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Grand Melee -> Rally the Horde go big or go home right? This is sort of an all or nothing sort of coin flip but assuming you have Lovisa in play there is a chance that this is a huge horde of face beaters. I had a lot of bad luck with Grand Melee as it ended up everyone beating my face in while they remove my guys. I assume I will be disappointed in the card but I am adding it for that chance to just table flip a game and kill everyone. It also works with Purphoros and Ogre Battledriver so we will see...
With my testing so far, the following cards are sort of in my consideration to cut pile due to issues with their performance:
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