With that being said, and based on my observations on what has been effective against the decks I've seen at Eternal Lore and in 1v1, I think I'm going to be updating the decklist yet again. The deck will still include Paradox Engine, because the card is absurdly good, but I'm going to be looking at it very hard to see if I can up the removal count even more and tweak the draw package some. By the way, Mental Misstep is really good. I highly, highly recommend it if you're going to be going up against cEDH decks.
I too have been busy with another list (Athreos, God of Passage...if you are curious just check my sig). I got a game in with Memnarch and I will do a small report on it for this thread. It was a quick game and a shame the way Memnarch went out.
My spot removal slots have moved to Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Reality Shift, Capsize. I am definitely not looking back. Having these 4 in the list have been crucial for a few of my games. However, I do have a card I have been eye-balling recently.
What does the group think of Wipe Away? Its a bounce effect so it doesn't get rid of our opponents permanent but it does have Split Second to interfere with our opponents combos? Thoughts? I wish it was a 2 cmc so I could imprint it on an Isochron Scepter. I'm worried that it doesn't make the cut.
With that being said, and based on my observations on what has been effective against the decks I've seen at Eternal Lore and in 1v1, I think I'm going to be updating the decklist yet again. The deck will still include Paradox Engine, because the card is absurdly good, but I'm going to be looking at it very hard to see if I can up the removal count even more and tweak the draw package some. By the way, Mental Misstep is really good. I highly, highly recommend it if you're going to be going up against cEDH decks.
I too have been busy with another list (Athreos, God of Passage...if you are curious just check my sig). I got a game in with Memnarch and I will do a small report on it for this thread. It was a quick game and a shame the way Memnarch went out.
My spot removal slots have moved to Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Reality Shift, Capsize. I am definitely not looking back. Having these 4 in the list have been crucial for a few of my games. However, I do have a card I have been eye-balling recently.
What does the group think of Wipe Away? Its a bounce effect so it doesn't get rid of our opponents permanent but it does have Split Second to interfere with our opponents combos? Thoughts? I wish it was a 2 cmc so I could imprint it on an Isochron Scepter. I'm worried that it doesn't make the cut.
Your Athreos Primer is really coming along, Muzzle. It looks great and I think it's a good list.
In regards to Wipe Away, I think it's a decent card. The Split Second is what makes it though. I've actually found myself leaning towards Into the Roil as an additional spot removal spell. I like it because it can be put on the Scepter to infinitely bounce our opponents' non-land permaments and it has also a kicker that we can use to replace itself for semi-card advantage. Its CMC is a little cheaper than Wipe Away, but we do lose the Split Second. I'll give it a go and see how it does.
I also made some massive changes to the Primer. I updated the card choices selection and clarified what I'm actually running in my Card Choices section, checked for grammar and spelling issues, updated the primary Decklist, switched out some card images that I didn't like, updated my Playgroup section, updated the Decklist Sorted by Function, and switched out some cards. The card choices are catalogued below:
The cards I most desperately want to slot back in are Back to Basics and Recurring Insight. I'm putting Dig Through Time and Pyramind of the Pantheons on a serious watchlist since I like these two cards so much more, but I want to at least give the Pyramid a chance since the payoff is so good.
Thanks for the compliment. You put in a lot of work into your very own and was my main resource for inspiration. The updates look great bear.
I still really like Mystic Remora but I can see where it can be cut. In my cEDH group its a house, in my more casual meta the card can be meh. It still finds a home in my list.
I like Into the Roil, I just wish it hit lands. As an old modern RUGScapeshift it was a great answer and very flexible. Repeal could be worth considering, but it isn't able to be imprniited on the Scepter. It also gets much more expensive as the permanents become more expensive. I think Into the Roil is much better
Yeah, I've recently been playing against more mono-color decks currently, hence why I felt that cutting Back to Basics was acceptable. However, it's still really good against my wife's Kaalia deck, which I play 1v1 most frequently against. I've also come into a preponderance of creature based decks, although they do use artifact mana to set up their board states (Arcum and a coupe of casual mono-Black variants). Mystic Remora will be on my radar to slot back in depending on what decks I'm playing against, since the gaming store I go to allows a 10 card sideboard.
After thinking hard about it, I think that Memory Jar is a skeptical choice. I really, really hate giving my opponents new cards to interact with me, although more often than not they don't have the mana sources to be able to actually disrupt what I'm doing on my turn when I activate the Jar. It's biggest pro is that it's an artifact that can be tutored for and recurred within the deck easier than the Insight. I'll keep an eye on it.
Into the Roil is kind of a rediscovery for me. I forgot that it existed and it's a functional card.
After testing a few games with Memory Jar, I found myself wanting Recurring Insight instead. The Insight actually maintains positive card advantage whereas the Jar simply digs deeper through your deck. I will be updating the swap on my OP and decklist.
Also, the [CARD}Pyramid of the Pantheon[/CARD] has been a little slow. I still think that it has potential, so I'm going to continue to test it and see what the feedback from games is. Since colored mana is so premium in this deck, I want to give this particular artifact a positive and full test.
I've been looking at other Primers and I've taken some inspiration from them, particularly in developing a budget list for this deck. The goal of the deck is to be under $100 while still being fairly competitive. I'll add it to the Primer and also add a section about how the budget list plays out and its general strategy. I've also contemplated doing a straight flavor-based deck, where every card is a reference to Memnarch, Mirrodin, or Karn. The budget list is below, and I'll think pretty deeply about the vorthos-themed list.
The overall deck strategy is to try and generate mana advantage over your opponents as fast as possible. There is an abnormally high density of mana sources in this deck so that we can utilize Memnarch consistently and often over the course of a game. There are some high impact cards that are also additional payoff cards for the high denisiy of mana sources that are here: Kozilek, the Great Distortion, Arcanis the Omnipotent, Darksteel Forge, Recurring Insight, and Steel Hellkite. But truly, the focus of the deck is the Mechanical Overlord himself. His ability to steal permanents on a permanent basis (yup, that was intended) is an incredibly powerful ability that can definitely swing the game in your favor. Once enough mana sources have been accrued, it is time to be a reactive control deck so that you can maintain control on the game and slowly dominate the table.
What are everyone's thoughts about Azor's Gateway? I think it has awesome potential, but I think it could also just be a trap. I feel like Memnarch is particularly suited to it because of Paradox Engine, Aphetto Alchemist, Voltaic Key and Tezzeret the Seeker. The backside of the card is absolutely broken for this deck, and it makes Palinchron a 1 card combo again. I'm strongly considering it but would like others' opinions on it.
The backside of it does feel quite tempting indeed, especially with something as mana hungry as Memnarch. Though part of me feels its a win more card of you are already going off with Paradox Engine. Digging for cards is quite nice but the exiling part has me a tad weary as well, with discarding you can still access the pitched cards in some ways where here you are less fortunate when you get rid of the wrong card. And while perhaps less relevant when going off already, it getting bounced at four activations probably feels bad too. But the biggest question with it is how well your curve can support it, since it requires at least five cards with different cmc to trigger the flip.
Yeah, the fact that Memnarch can be a huge mana dump is what is most exciting. And I can also incrementally pad my life total with AEtherflux Reservoir to ensure that I'm always tapping for 20+ mana. I think my curve is decent, or at least well supported enough to have 4 different cards with different CMC's (lands count as CMC 0). I would just hate for it to be destroyed in response to its final activation, after investing so many cards. But, at the very least, it's a filtering tool to increase card quality even if the cards do go to exile. The repeatable filtering is already worth it, in my mind, so getting the upside wouldn't feel bad at all (since I already have so few ways to recur from the 'yard, I don't think that I'd miss the cards I'm exiling).
I think Derevi is the most well-suited to take advantage of the Gateway, but I want it to work in Memnarch real bad. Time to do some testing, especially since Pyramid of the Pantheon has been so lackluster. It takes even longer to turn on then I thought, and the fact that it reduces your mana count, in order to put a brick counter on it as part of casting a spell, really sucks. It's definitely coming out and the Gateway is going in for testing purposes.
What are everyone's thoughts about Azor's Gateway? I think it has awesome potential, but I think it could also just be a trap. I feel like Memnarch is particularly suited to it because of Paradox Engine, Aphetto Alchemist, Voltaic Key and Tezzeret the Seeker. The backside of the card is absolutely broken for this deck, and it makes Palinchron a 1 card combo again. I'm strongly considering it but would like others' opinions on it.
I am really tempted to like it. It's flip side is obviously a near-game ender for us if we are able to cast Memnarch and take 3+ important permanents. But I am worried that the exile cost for us will be a little more difficult then we expect. My deck's cmc is hovering around 2.71 and in any given hand I seem to average around 2-3 different total mana costs. Most of these being rocks I want to cast early. I think the exile is much too steep when compared to discard as well.
I agree with a lot of what NimBalor said. I don't think this card would hurt in any list but a well tuned mono U fueled competitive machine may not want this.
I've been far more tempted to try out Flood of Recollection in my Azami list, which has taken a fair amount of inspiration from the Memnarch builds here. On it's own it does an average effect but putting this on Isochron Scepter? It being a sorcery is a slight downside but lets you cast recast pretty much anything you like, since the triggered exile clause is the one on the copy.
I've been far more tempted to try out Flood of Recollection in my Azami list, which has taken a fair amount of inspiration from the Memnarch builds here. On it's own it does an average effect but putting this on Isochron Scepter? It being a sorcery is a slight downside but lets you cast recast pretty much anything you like, since the triggered exile clause is the one on the copy.
Sadly, Isochron Scepter only imprints Instants with a CMC under 2. Flood of Recollection is actually really good, it just doesn't have quite enough synergy with what this deck is trying to do. For your Azami list (which I checked out on Tappedout, good list), I think it has great synergy. It would also be good in my friend's Azami Storm list, but he hasn't played that in quite a while.
@MuzzleMuffin
I too find myself finding that I only have a CMC range of 2-3 different numbers, but I think that with the added ways of untapping the Gateway that we should be able to draw into the fourth card needed in order to flip it over (I don't really explicitly state it, but it's assumed that one of those exiled cards will be a land). I also forgot about Padeem, Consul of Innovation, which should help minimize the spot removal of the Gateway in response to our activating it.
I will also be testing this out in my Teferi list. It might be win-more there, since it's already hella efficient at executing its game plan, but I think the ability to generate obscene amounts of mana would be welcome with Teferi's ability.
Ok I guys. I have to admit something. I'm a fraud now:(. I no longer use Memnarch as my Commander. He is just a lowly peon on my deck as an alternative win con. I moved into using Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor as my commander-in-chief. He was better for me as I moved more and more into a combo deck. Now my deck has 1 win con..... Combo out in almost every/any way. Aboshan felt less threatening to other players and actually did a better job of not losing me the game.
So with all that being said, I am going to be removing my Planeswalkers from the deck in order to fit in The Immortal Sun. I currently have Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Tezzeret the Seeker, and Teferi, Temporal Archmage. All of these cards are great in the deck but I feel like I want to move away from them. I've also added a Batterskull to my deck as another Palinchron effect so I wont just instantly lose if one of them gets exiled. As for the other 2 open spots after I remove Planeswalkers, I'm still undecided as to what will take their spots. Maybe a couple of more Wizards to help fill out the underlining Wizard theme of the deck.
Ok I guys. I have to admit something. I'm a fraud now:(. I no longer use Memnarch as my Commander. He is just a lowly peon on my deck as an alternative win con. I moved into using Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor as my commander-in-chief. He was better for me as I moved more and more into a combo deck. Now my deck has 1 win con..... Combo out in almost every/any way. Aboshan felt less threatening to other players and actually did a better job of not losing me the game.
Not the Memdaddy!....in all seriousness I appreciate obscure commanders (look at my sig). Do you play in a aggroish meta? Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor looks like he would do great there.
Depending on what kind of list you run I still think Tezzeret the Seeker is still one of the best PW'ers in EDH and worth running in your list. There is probably a few artifacts that are either very important to your game plan or just great in general. What does your list look like? I would like to see any new discoveries you have made that could be applied to Memnarch.
Ok I guys. I have to admit something. I'm a fraud now:(. I no longer use Memnarch as my Commander. He is just a lowly peon on my deck as an alternative win con. I moved into using Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor as my commander-in-chief. He was better for me as I moved more and more into a combo deck. Now my deck has 1 win con..... Combo out in almost every/any way. Aboshan felt less threatening to other players and actually did a better job of not losing me the game.
So with all that being said, I am going to be removing my Planeswalkers from the deck in order to fit in The Immortal Sun. I currently have Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Tezzeret the Seeker, and Teferi, Temporal Archmage. All of these cards are great in the deck but I feel like I want to move away from them. I've also added a Batterskull to my deck as another Palinchron effect so I wont just instantly lose if one of them gets exiled. As for the other 2 open spots after I remove Planeswalkers, I'm still undecided as to what will take their spots. Maybe a couple of more Wizards to help fill out the underlining Wizard theme of the deck.
..Sir. How could you? Memnarch won't take your betrayal personally. Probably. If you find a bunch of Levelers coming for you, just know that I warned you.
How are you using Batterskull as another Palinchron... Ah, nevermind. Paradox Engine is really good. Do you find that you don't need any colored mana sources? How are the Stax effects treating you? I think that they might be counter to what the deck is trying to do, but I could be wrong. You could add Ancient Tomb to your mana base.
Overall, I think your deck is actually pretty balanced. You've got a decent count of mana sources, counters, and draw spells, so if Aboshan is working for you, keep doing it. His ability does stop Aggro decks pretty well, and being able to tap permanents during the upkeep is useful too. And it's such a random commander, too.
I would agree with Muzzle. Keep Tezzeret the Seeker is a really good tutor and being able to untap mana rocks is very valuable.
I’m waiting to get my Ancient Tomb but it will be in there soon enough. I have most of the deck foiled and I’m waiting for one to pop up at my LGS.
Arcanis the Omnipotent is also another bounce and replay effect as well. I completely forgot about that until I did it to someone the other day.
The deck is amazingly fun to play. It’s gotten to the point where people usually try to kill me first every game because I consistently can get a win on turns 5 through 7. While everyone else is durdling around, I can usually sneak out some sort of lock. There are more combos in the deck than I had originally planned for. I was actually surprised by how good the deck could be in 1v1 and multiplayer.
I could go on and on about all the fun things I’ve been finding out with the deck but I’ll spare the details. It’s been a blast and it has ruined all the other commander decks I’ve been trying to brew up or all my old commander decks. This is my favorite one. Hands down.
@Gen0syde86
Mono-Blue for the win! I'm glad that you're enjoying the deck as much as you are. That's the point of Commander, right? How are the Stax pieces working out for you?
As a general post, it's been a while since I've been active on MTGSalvation. I was hired into a startup company and it's been super busy. We're starting to see the success we want, but it's been a great journey.
Anyways, I'll be reviewing the new sets that have come out in my absence and posting a slightly updated list. Not too many changes, except Azor's Gateway isn't as good as I thought it was. It requires a TON of setup, and sometimes you're missing that 5th CMC for too many turns to make it useful. However, when you get the Paradox Engine turn going, it's actually really useful, even if you don't flip it. Filtering cards during the combo turn is very important.
Anyways, good to be back! I'll try and post more frequently on the forums, as I've been very busy brewing and working on a side project for Commander that I'm excited to give a beta test. Looking forward to sharing it.
I love playing the deck but haven't had much time for it recently. I've been focusing on building my Legacy decks now that I'm pretty much done with my modern collection.
I have thought about Workshop. I just simply can't afford it right now. Timetwister is not something I can play with. My group doesnt allow for any of the Power
Hi Memnarched! Welcome to the forums and I hope you find this Primer useful.
It's been a while. Life can get very busy and being part of a startup makes that difficult to manage priorities and hobbies. I haven't played cEDH in a LONG while, but I have some free time opening up now, since the company has been able to gain some traction.
Mishra's Workshop is really good when paired with Mycosynth Lattice, which Battlebond has kindly reprinted for us. Otherwise, I've had cases where I needed the Workshop to tap for regular mana in order to cast a Counterspell or draw spell that I needed. It's a high risk, high reward kinda of card that is only valuable in casting artifacts. It sadly does not make mana for activated abilities of artifacts, which would have made it a MUCH stronger inclusion.
I'll be doing some updates to the Primer to reflect new cards that I've tested as well as the current decklist. I've got a Budget section to add as well and a couple of set reviews to complete as well. I'll be carving out some time this afternoon to complete these things and get back into MTGSalvation.
Alright, I'll be doing a Set Review for Dominaria and Battlebond in this post, Battlebond first. Bolded cards are ones I recommend picking up for your Memnarch Commander deck and all others are there because they seem the most useful in Commander.
Battlebond Review
First, let me just say that I love the fact that they reprinted so many high impact Commander cards in this set. I'll be discussing a few of them here, but Diabolic Intent, Doubling Season, and Seedborn Muse are great decisions by Wizards for reprints. On to the actual relevant cards we'd consider:
Will Kenrith - a really good planeswalker for a spellslinger deck. The first ability helps to create a pseudo removal effect and puts those creatures in Bolt range or Earthquakeable. The minus ability is very, very nice as well for spellslingers as is the ultimate. However, because it doesn't have direct synergy with artifacts, it's not AS good in our lists as it could be. It's still a fine pseudo-removal spell and marginal ramp spell for our instants and sorceries, but it doesn't directly contribute to our game plan like other cards could. We'll pass on this.
Mystic Confluence - this reprint should help bring the price under $10 and make it stay there. A very good, versatile blue card, I attribute the same utility and power to this card as I do to Cryptic Command. Strongly recommended for this deck.
Arcane Artisan - this is a very fascinating card because of its political implications. We're only running a set number of creates in the list, none of which we're willing to exile, but I really like the idea of this card. We'll pass though.
Tidespout Tyrant - expensive in CMC but its power is undeniable. Another reprint, and one I would recommend for budget players for its general utility as well as its combo applications. The new art is WAY better as well. We could easily run the tyrant in our deck, but I believe that it competes with our Commander for its spot, and Memnarch has a little more power as removal and to the deck strategy. I recommend it.
Game Plan - again, cool applications and the political ramifications are really interesting, but it's CMC makes it unlikely to be played to great effectivenss in our deck. Time Reversal is basically the same thing, as I doubt anyone would really pay the 6 to cast your spell for you. Pass.
Sower of Temptation - if you can't afford Gilded Drake, this is a fine substitution. Its reprinting will drive the price down a great deal, so I'm glad that it's available at a cheaper price. I recommend picking one up.
Spellseeker - this is the card that I think every U mage has been waiting for. It finds SO many cards in our deck and is a Wizard to boot. This will be replacing Azor's Gateway in my list immediately. STRONGLY recommend getting this before it gets ridiculously expensive. It's utility is second to none and is going to be an auto-include in decks moving forward.
Spell Snare - if you're playing against Commanders with a CMC 2 general (i.e. Thrasios), this is worthwhile. Otherwise, it's a little narrow as a counterspell but still good. I recommend picking up a copy to have in your back pocket, and simply for that.
Impulse - a very, very awesome draw spell that fits under a Scepter VERY well, I'm glad that this has been reprinted. Pick up a playset and jam them into every blue deck you have. They're worth it.
Myscosynth Lattice - I'm so glad they're reprinting this. It's absolutely fantastic with Memnarch's ability and can be built around very nicely. It makes all the colorless mana sources in this deck relevant to casting any spell you have, and the synergy with our deck is great. Pick up a copy and either play it in your deck or keep it in your binder for when you do want to build around it.
Mind's Eye - we run more efficient draw spells in our deck, but this one is good for more casual metas or against other control decks. Its price is nice, but I think we can do better. Pass.
Dominaria Review
Bolded cards are ones I recommend picking up if you're able to or are otherwise relevant to our strategy.
Naru Meha, Master Wizard - a very cool Wizard that also acts as an anthem, her triggered ability is really cool. She enables an infinite combo with Ghostly Flicker and some others, so it's a nice way to get some additional redundancy. I think she's better with a dedicated Deadeye Navigator package so that you can reuse her ETB ability, but she's still a strong card. I'll personally pass on it, but it would be a great inclusion if you have a dedicated ETB package to take advantage of.
Karn's Temporal Sundering - I love this card all the way around. The art is awesome, the flavor is awesome, it's correct according to the lord, the flavor text is awesome, and it's actually a decent time spell. Too bad it exiles itself upon resolution. This card doesn't directly contribute to our game plan, so I would pass on this card personally.
The Antiquities War - a really decent source of card advantage for lists that play 25+ artifacts in their deck. It digs hella deep to find the important combo pieces we run (all of our combos require an artifact of some sort) while also being a semi-decent win-condition of its own. Not bad. Considering that it's also just $0.50, it's worth picking up.
Deep Freeze - this is actually a decent removal spell. It's akin to Song of the Dryads and Imprisoned in the Moon, both of which are really good removal spells for Commanders specifically. They don't exile the card, they actually change the card type into something else which makes it nearly impossible to interact with. They're cheap and effective, so I recommend picking up a playset of these and diversify your removal some more.
Unwind - a really good counterspell that is an upgraded Negate. It's too expensive for our deck in CMC, but it's really quite good.
Karn, Scion of Urza - sadly, this Planeswalker isn't quite good enough for our competitive decklist. I love the card advantage that it can generate and the fact that it makes Affinity creature tokens is really powerful. BARELY not good enough, and it might actually be a good inclusion for your decklist if you're playing in a slower meta.
Gilded Lotus - a pretty reprint. Acquire one and don't look back.
Weatherlight - we don't have a lot of creatures to reliably crew this cool airship. But the card advantage it can accrue is worth considering. In a more creature heavy list, this card could do well. Otherwise, we'll pass.
Mox Amber - Wizards was brave enough to print another Moxen! While awesome, they also put a pretty heavy restriction on it. We don't have a high density of Legendary creatures or Planeswalkers, and Memnarch isn't actually a U creature. So, while I usually recommend most 0 CMC mana rocks, this one probably isn't going to be effective in our deck.
I too have been busy with another list (Athreos, God of Passage...if you are curious just check my sig). I got a game in with Memnarch and I will do a small report on it for this thread. It was a quick game and a shame the way Memnarch went out.
My spot removal slots have moved to Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Reality Shift, Capsize. I am definitely not looking back. Having these 4 in the list have been crucial for a few of my games. However, I do have a card I have been eye-balling recently.
What does the group think of Wipe Away? Its a bounce effect so it doesn't get rid of our opponents permanent but it does have Split Second to interfere with our opponents combos? Thoughts? I wish it was a 2 cmc so I could imprint it on an Isochron Scepter. I'm worried that it doesn't make the cut.
Your Athreos Primer is really coming along, Muzzle. It looks great and I think it's a good list.
In regards to Wipe Away, I think it's a decent card. The Split Second is what makes it though. I've actually found myself leaning towards Into the Roil as an additional spot removal spell. I like it because it can be put on the Scepter to infinitely bounce our opponents' non-land permaments and it has also a kicker that we can use to replace itself for semi-card advantage. Its CMC is a little cheaper than Wipe Away, but we do lose the Split Second. I'll give it a go and see how it does.
I also made some massive changes to the Primer. I updated the card choices selection and clarified what I'm actually running in my Card Choices section, checked for grammar and spelling issues, updated the primary Decklist, switched out some card images that I didn't like, updated my Playgroup section, updated the Decklist Sorted by Function, and switched out some cards. The card choices are catalogued below:
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Windfall
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mystic Remora
1 Kefnet the Mindful (since it was still in the OP decklist)
1 Back to Basics
1 Recurring Insight
The cards that have slotted in are:
1 Into the Roil
1 Pongify
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Pyramid of the Pantheons
1 Mental Misstep
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Aphetto Alchemist
1 ??
The cards I most desperately want to slot back in are Back to Basics and Recurring Insight. I'm putting Dig Through Time and Pyramind of the Pantheons on a serious watchlist since I like these two cards so much more, but I want to at least give the Pyramid a chance since the payoff is so good.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I still really like Mystic Remora but I can see where it can be cut. In my cEDH group its a house, in my more casual meta the card can be meh. It still finds a home in my list.
I like Into the Roil, I just wish it hit lands. As an old modern RUG Scapeshift it was a great answer and very flexible. Repeal could be worth considering, but it isn't able to be imprniited on the Scepter. It also gets much more expensive as the permanents become more expensive. I think Into the Roil is much better
After thinking hard about it, I think that Memory Jar is a skeptical choice. I really, really hate giving my opponents new cards to interact with me, although more often than not they don't have the mana sources to be able to actually disrupt what I'm doing on my turn when I activate the Jar. It's biggest pro is that it's an artifact that can be tutored for and recurred within the deck easier than the Insight. I'll keep an eye on it.
Into the Roil is kind of a rediscovery for me. I forgot that it existed and it's a functional card.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Also, the [CARD}Pyramid of the Pantheon[/CARD] has been a little slow. I still think that it has potential, so I'm going to continue to test it and see what the feedback from games is. Since colored mana is so premium in this deck, I want to give this particular artifact a positive and full test.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Creatures (17)
2 Aphetto Alchemist
2 Pili-Pala
2 Silver Myr
2 Vedalken Engineer
3 Trinket Mage
3 Grand Architect
3 Palladium Myr
3 Shimmer Myr
4 Vedalken Archmage
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
6 Arcanis the Omnipotent
6 Steel Hellkite
6 Duplicant
10 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Artifacts (19)
0 Everflowing Chalice
1 Sol Ring
1 Voltaic Key
1 Pyramid of the Pantheon
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Sky Diamond
2 Mind Stone
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Illusionist's Bracers
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Worn Powerstone
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Hedron Archive
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Unwinding Clock
5 Paradox Engine
9 Darksteel Forge
1 Brainstorm
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Pongify
2 Think Twice
2 Impulse
2 Counterspell
2 Negate
2 Arcane Denial
2 Mana Leak
2 Reality Shift
2 Boomerang
2 Into the Roil
2 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Dramatic Reversal
3 Dissipate
3 Dream Fracture
3 Whir of Invention
3 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Stroke of Genius
3 Capsize
4 Dismiss
4 Rewind
4 Engulf the Shore
4 Fact or Fiction
2 Reshape
2 Curse of the Swine
3 Fabricate
6 Recurring Insight
Lands (35)
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Buried Ruin
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Coral Atoll
30 Island
The overall deck strategy is to try and generate mana advantage over your opponents as fast as possible. There is an abnormally high density of mana sources in this deck so that we can utilize Memnarch consistently and often over the course of a game. There are some high impact cards that are also additional payoff cards for the high denisiy of mana sources that are here: Kozilek, the Great Distortion, Arcanis the Omnipotent, Darksteel Forge, Recurring Insight, and Steel Hellkite. But truly, the focus of the deck is the Mechanical Overlord himself. His ability to steal permanents on a permanent basis (yup, that was intended) is an incredibly powerful ability that can definitely swing the game in your favor. Once enough mana sources have been accrued, it is time to be a reactive control deck so that you can maintain control on the game and slowly dominate the table.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I think Derevi is the most well-suited to take advantage of the Gateway, but I want it to work in Memnarch real bad. Time to do some testing, especially since Pyramid of the Pantheon has been so lackluster. It takes even longer to turn on then I thought, and the fact that it reduces your mana count, in order to put a brick counter on it as part of casting a spell, really sucks. It's definitely coming out and the Gateway is going in for testing purposes.
-Pyramid of the Pantheon
+Azor's Gateway
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I am really tempted to like it. It's flip side is obviously a near-game ender for us if we are able to cast Memnarch and take 3+ important permanents. But I am worried that the exile cost for us will be a little more difficult then we expect. My deck's cmc is hovering around 2.71 and in any given hand I seem to average around 2-3 different total mana costs. Most of these being rocks I want to cast early. I think the exile is much too steep when compared to discard as well.
I agree with a lot of what NimBalor said. I don't think this card would hurt in any list but a well tuned mono U fueled competitive machine may not want this.
Sadly, Isochron Scepter only imprints Instants with a CMC under 2. Flood of Recollection is actually really good, it just doesn't have quite enough synergy with what this deck is trying to do. For your Azami list (which I checked out on Tappedout, good list), I think it has great synergy. It would also be good in my friend's Azami Storm list, but he hasn't played that in quite a while.
@MuzzleMuffin
I too find myself finding that I only have a CMC range of 2-3 different numbers, but I think that with the added ways of untapping the Gateway that we should be able to draw into the fourth card needed in order to flip it over (I don't really explicitly state it, but it's assumed that one of those exiled cards will be a land). I also forgot about Padeem, Consul of Innovation, which should help minimize the spot removal of the Gateway in response to our activating it.
I will also be testing this out in my Teferi list. It might be win-more there, since it's already hella efficient at executing its game plan, but I think the ability to generate obscene amounts of mana would be welcome with Teferi's ability.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
So with all that being said, I am going to be removing my Planeswalkers from the deck in order to fit in The Immortal Sun. I currently have Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Tezzeret the Seeker, and Teferi, Temporal Archmage. All of these cards are great in the deck but I feel like I want to move away from them. I've also added a Batterskull to my deck as another Palinchron effect so I wont just instantly lose if one of them gets exiled. As for the other 2 open spots after I remove Planeswalkers, I'm still undecided as to what will take their spots. Maybe a couple of more Wizards to help fill out the underlining Wizard theme of the deck.
Not the Memdaddy!....in all seriousness I appreciate obscure commanders (look at my sig). Do you play in a aggroish meta? Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor looks like he would do great there.
Depending on what kind of list you run I still think Tezzeret the Seeker is still one of the best PW'ers in EDH and worth running in your list. There is probably a few artifacts that are either very important to your game plan or just great in general. What does your list look like? I would like to see any new discoveries you have made that could be applied to Memnarch.
6 Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor
(0) Mana Spells:
0 Mana Crypt
0 Everflowing Chalice
0 Pact of Negation
(1) Mana Spells:
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Mana Vault
1 Pyramid of the Pantheon
1 Meekstone
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Voltaic Key
1 Mystical Tutor
1 High Tide
(2) Mana Spells:
2 Winter Orb
2 Grim Monolith
2 Thought Vessel
2 Mana Drain
2 Counterspell
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Reality Shift
2 Aphetto Alchemist
(3) Mana Spells:
3 Static Orb
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Capsize
3 Ertai, Wizard Adept
3 Propaganda
3 Fabricate
3 Vizier of Tumbling Sands
3 Trinket Mage
3 Long-Term Plans
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Hedron Archive
4 Phyrexian Processor
4 Tower of Fortunes
4 Aetherflux Reservoir
4 Summary Dismissal
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Archaeomancer
4 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
(5)Mana Spells:
5 Batterskull
5 Paradox Engine
5 Conjurer's Closet
5 Gilded Lotus
5 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
5 Force of Will
5 Desertion
5 Mystic Confluence
5 Time Warp
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
5 Mnemonic Wall
(6)Mana Spells:
6 Planar Portal
6 Arcanis the Omnipotent
6 Teferi, temporal Archmage
(7)Mana Spells:
7 Memnarch
7 Scour from Existence
7 Palinchron
(X)Spells:
0 Astral Cornucopia
0 Spell Burst
0 Curse of the Swine
0 Reshape
0 Whir of Invention
0 Blue Sun's Zenith
20 Island
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Mage-Ring Network
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Strip Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Temple of the False God
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Lotus Vale
1 Scorched Ruins
1 Soldevi Excavations
The cards that I want to cut are the Planeswalkers and the Desertion. I'm also probably cutting the Tectonic Edge for a Field of Ruin
..Sir. How could you? Memnarch won't take your betrayal personally. Probably. If you find a bunch of Levelers coming for you, just know that I warned you.
How are you using Batterskull as another Palinchron... Ah, nevermind. Paradox Engine is really good. Do you find that you don't need any colored mana sources? How are the Stax effects treating you? I think that they might be counter to what the deck is trying to do, but I could be wrong. You could add Ancient Tomb to your mana base.
Overall, I think your deck is actually pretty balanced. You've got a decent count of mana sources, counters, and draw spells, so if Aboshan is working for you, keep doing it. His ability does stop Aggro decks pretty well, and being able to tap permanents during the upkeep is useful too. And it's such a random commander, too.
I would agree with Muzzle. Keep Tezzeret the Seeker is a really good tutor and being able to untap mana rocks is very valuable.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Arcanis the Omnipotent is also another bounce and replay effect as well. I completely forgot about that until I did it to someone the other day.
The deck is amazingly fun to play. It’s gotten to the point where people usually try to kill me first every game because I consistently can get a win on turns 5 through 7. While everyone else is durdling around, I can usually sneak out some sort of lock. There are more combos in the deck than I had originally planned for. I was actually surprised by how good the deck could be in 1v1 and multiplayer.
Being able to bounce Venser, Shaper Savant with Riptide Laboratory or Conjurer's Closet and bounce a land cans keep someone in a lock in 1v1 and it’s something that can be set up pretty quickly.
I could go on and on about all the fun things I’ve been finding out with the deck but I’ll spare the details. It’s been a blast and it has ruined all the other commander decks I’ve been trying to brew up or all my old commander decks. This is my favorite one. Hands down.
Mono-Blue for the win! I'm glad that you're enjoying the deck as much as you are. That's the point of Commander, right? How are the Stax pieces working out for you?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Anyways, I'll be reviewing the new sets that have come out in my absence and posting a slightly updated list. Not too many changes, except Azor's Gateway isn't as good as I thought it was. It requires a TON of setup, and sometimes you're missing that 5th CMC for too many turns to make it useful. However, when you get the Paradox Engine turn going, it's actually really useful, even if you don't flip it. Filtering cards during the combo turn is very important.
Anyways, good to be back! I'll try and post more frequently on the forums, as I've been very busy brewing and working on a side project for Commander that I'm excited to give a beta test. Looking forward to sharing it.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I was just wondering, have you thought about running Mishra's Workshop and Timetwister? I run both, to great effect.
It's been a while. Life can get very busy and being part of a startup makes that difficult to manage priorities and hobbies. I haven't played cEDH in a LONG while, but I have some free time opening up now, since the company has been able to gain some traction.
Mishra's Workshop is really good when paired with Mycosynth Lattice, which Battlebond has kindly reprinted for us. Otherwise, I've had cases where I needed the Workshop to tap for regular mana in order to cast a Counterspell or draw spell that I needed. It's a high risk, high reward kinda of card that is only valuable in casting artifacts. It sadly does not make mana for activated abilities of artifacts, which would have made it a MUCH stronger inclusion.
I'll be doing some updates to the Primer to reflect new cards that I've tested as well as the current decklist. I've got a Budget section to add as well and a couple of set reviews to complete as well. I'll be carving out some time this afternoon to complete these things and get back into MTGSalvation.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Battlebond Review
First, let me just say that I love the fact that they reprinted so many high impact Commander cards in this set. I'll be discussing a few of them here, but Diabolic Intent, Doubling Season, and Seedborn Muse are great decisions by Wizards for reprints. On to the actual relevant cards we'd consider:
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Bolded cards are ones I recommend picking up if you're able to or are otherwise relevant to our strategy.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager