I don't run boots because I like to maximize the amount of dudes I turn sideways, so I run creature sac outlets over them as my marchesa protection. Just personal preference I guess.
Yea basically the decision I made too. I could see running greaves though, its cheap, free to equip and really solid. I've definitely considered it before I just don't really want to cut any of my creatures. Running both of them feels excessive in my opinion but I suppose both are pretty solid. The other problem I had is I like to sacrifice my guys and once they die they can't be equipped until the next turn since you can only equip at sorcery speed.
Single target haste is meh and that protection comes at sorcery speed...and then sorcery speed again. I can see it being useful if I didnt have the tutors, but I'm looking to give global haste. And of course, I too struggle to ever give up a slot for a dude, the bench is already pretty full. Tempted to started filling a binder with a control shell.
Okay, thanks for the input everyone! :)) Yeah, the 1 to equip of Swiftfoot is mehh, so I guess I can keep the Greaves in. Yupyup, Urabrask thr Hidden and Ogre Battledriver have been pulling their weight, not to mention the latter pairs up nicely with Flayer of the Hatebound
I tried searching and it didn't work but can we talk about what the necrotic ooze dots for the deck? I can't entirely see it just from looking at the list
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Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
It's a combo piece, and super utility piece, many times folks kill your sac outlets, and ooze just replaces them. At 4 cmc it can be tutored by fleshwrither as well. There have been games with an ooze out, and I just entomb something relevant to get immediate utility with it.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
@Decimator1 I play Shadowmage Infiltrator, even before he was spoiled. Nets you cards early, and most people just ignore him.
I'm just curious why aren't there a lot of people running Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots? I was able to find space to squeeze the two and I'm really happy protecting Marchesa and at the same times having her take early assault first, then follow up the following turns with guaranteed dethrone triggers.
your in red so there are better MASS haste and you should not mind if your guys die. sure it might help once in awhile but probably not worth a slot
Hmmm seems like it could do some nasty things with a sac outlet. attack for 5 (w/ +1/+1), sac for 5 more. and that's if it has only one counter on it. repeat.
So I put this deck together over the past few weeks. My build is pretty close to the one in the OP, though there are a few minor different card choices (I run more board wipes and more targeted removal because you get stomped in my playgroup without it). That said, since putting the final pieces in place, I have yet to to lose a single game and I think it's starting to piss my friends off. Sadly, the last deck I made before this was a really degenerate Kiki-Jiki combo deck, so now everyone just targets me first right off the bat regardless of what else is going on in the game. I'm still managing to pull out the wins, but they are hard fought.
Anyone else find that this deck seems to make everyone else at the table mad as soon as things start going?
Got a list you can share? My group finds my deck powerful, but it's definitely not unbeatable. The two obvious things to tone down a list are removing tutors and slowing it down (either less ramp or higher CMC).
So I put this deck together over the past few weeks. My build is pretty close to the one in the OP, though there are a few minor different card choices (I run more board wipes and more targeted removal because you get stomped in my playgroup without it). That said, since putting the final pieces in place, I have yet to to lose a single game and I think it's starting to piss my friends off. Sadly, the last deck I made before this was a really degenerate Kiki-Jiki combo deck, so now everyone just targets me first right off the bat regardless of what else is going on in the game. I'm still managing to pull out the wins, but they are hard fought.
Anyone else find that this deck seems to make everyone else at the table mad as soon as things start going?
Sometimes. People get mad when Flayer of the Hatebound shows up alongside a sac outlet and Marchesa. Do you have a list for your deck? I'm interested to see the "more board wipes" version.
I made my list a little closer to the OP list and it was pretty good last night. I dunno if ill ever get an imperial recruiter/sneak attack but the deck definitely seemed better than what i had before.
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Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
No murderous redcap? He is super cute with Marchesa and combos with Mikaeus. The only problem is he's a little small (both in body and effect) for 4 mana, but I run him in my Marchesa, which is somewhat more aggro than yours, and he does very well there.
Redcap is pretty good, I prefer flametongue kavu in that slot though, 4 damage kills a lot of stuff in commander, and shocking a player is seldom worth it. The combo potential is nice, but killing a 4 toughness anything and swinging for 5 instead of 3 more worth it to me. Could probably run both for redundancy.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I like them both very much. I opt for Redcap over Kavu in my build because it runs a lot of +1/+1 counter themes. Also remember that he can deal 3 damage outright with a sac outlet, or more if you also have an Unspeakable Symbol.
Here are a couple other cards I run: Oona's Blackguard - even if you don't run many rogues, that discard effect is sick. Nim Deathmantle - because I run Ashnod's Altar instead of Phyrexian, and that plus an undying/persist creature...
Finally, a possible exclusion: Clutch of the Undercity. Are you running this just for the transmute? I think that, between Fleshwrither and Dimir House Guard, you have a fair number of ways to tutor 4CMC cards, especially now that tucking isn't a thing anymore. Either a more efficient piece of bounce (like Cyclonic Rift) or a creature-based one (Man-o'-War, Aether Adept, Stingscourger) might work better with the rest of your deck. It could also be the slot for the Archaeomancer you mentioned a few posts above.
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Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
It is effectively removal and a tutor, so it fits the bill for versatility for me. It has been a good card, never dead in my hand, and I've even used it to turn dethrone back on. Cyclonic rift is amazing, don't get me wrong, but the way the deck is built it is always an answer to something.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I would like to start a discussion about origins cards, here are the cards so far that i'm going to be testing:
Avaricious Dragon : Love that it's an aggressive 4 drop card engine, and since I typically run out of fuel fast, this seems more upside. Liliana, Heretical Healer : Super easy to flip in the deck, can be tutored by recruiter, reanimation and discard is gravy, emblem is everything the deck would ever want. Mizzium Meddler : Can really put a damper on removal, and is a wizard to boot.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Avaricious Dragon - I'm sure this crazy hellbent dragon has a place in some Rakdos deck in some format but this isnt it.
New Liliana: Ya she's pretty sweet in theory. I'm going to be trying her in mine thats for sure.
Mizzium Meddler: I'm not feeling it. It's reminding me of Dualcaster Mage which i took out of my (duals) marchesa for the same reason: You cant re-use the effect with Marchesa. This ETB effect needs to be in responce to an opponents spell and Marchesa doesnt bring stuff back till the end step. Thats my 2 cents
Avaricious Dragon - I hadn't really considered this guy when I first saw him, I too assumed he would be a better fit in some hellbent red deck. But now that I think about it more he's actually a lot more interesting then that. If we sac him everytime and marchesa brings him back then we only net cards and never discard our hand. Suddenly he goes from massively risky play to dangerous threat that must be dealt with immediately.
But of course the downside is if we are ever left without a sac outlet and some means of haste or fast counters he's basically unplayable. He makes us discard our hand first and then has a giant target on his head the whole next round.
Constantly saccing and recycling guys is our bread and butter but it's tough to think about a guy who's borderline unplayable without that support.
New Liliana - seems sweet although it does concern me a bit that we aren't really set up to abuse her +2. Once things get in the graveyard for real they tend to stay dead. Love her minus though and if she lasts a turn the synergy between the two is great. Obviously the ultimate is amazing but ultimates are usually not relevant to regular play since you hardly ever get there
Mizzium Meddler - not really a fan of this guy. Totally agree with FearDReaper's assessment and I cut dualcaster for the same reason as well. I'd rather get Goblin Flectomancer in than this guy.
I've not looked over the spoiler yet, but I can't really imagine running any of the these three.
Avaricious Dragon - too much downside. "Trigger on the stack, Cyclonic Rift your board." I'd rather have an Outpost Siege if you need more gas. Both modes are good, enchantments are tougher to remove, and there's little downside besides it not being a creature.
Liliana, Heretical Healer - My group is super hostile towards planeswalkers and the -X mode is the only one I'm particularly interested in. Problem is, with a starting loyalty of 3, she'll usually need to tick up first in order to bring back something impactful. She is the one I'm most confident about though.
Mizzium Meddler - I'd rather have a sac outlet. Useful ability, but I don't like these sorts of triggers w/ a way to blink the creature.
I agree with what everyone else said.
Avaricious Dragon is pretty cool, but doesn't add a lot to this deck. You have UB in your color identity, you have much better creature-based draw available. A small, less risky guy like Sygg or even something like Vulturous Aven/Marchesa's Infiltrator (because flavor) would have much more synergy with the rest of the deck.
Meddler doesn't seem to add much, besides not doing much with Marchesa. I wouldn't play him over a counterspell.
Liliana is pretty cool. I'd playtest her. Lilies have an excellent history of being commander-playable.
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Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
Pauper:UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
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Yea basically the decision I made too. I could see running greaves though, its cheap, free to equip and really solid. I've definitely considered it before I just don't really want to cut any of my creatures. Running both of them feels excessive in my opinion but I suppose both are pretty solid. The other problem I had is I like to sacrifice my guys and once they die they can't be equipped until the next turn since you can only equip at sorcery speed.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
your in red so there are better MASS haste and you should not mind if your guys die. sure it might help once in awhile but probably not worth a slot
Hmmm seems like it could do some nasty things with a sac outlet. attack for 5 (w/ +1/+1), sac for 5 more. and that's if it has only one counter on it. repeat.
Anyone else find that this deck seems to make everyone else at the table mad as soon as things start going?
Sometimes. People get mad when Flayer of the Hatebound shows up alongside a sac outlet and Marchesa. Do you have a list for your deck? I'm interested to see the "more board wipes" version.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Here are a couple other cards I run:
Oona's Blackguard - even if you don't run many rogues, that discard effect is sick.
Nim Deathmantle - because I run Ashnod's Altar instead of Phyrexian, and that plus an undying/persist creature...
Finally, a possible exclusion: Clutch of the Undercity. Are you running this just for the transmute? I think that, between Fleshwrither and Dimir House Guard, you have a fair number of ways to tutor 4CMC cards, especially now that tucking isn't a thing anymore. Either a more efficient piece of bounce (like Cyclonic Rift) or a creature-based one (Man-o'-War, Aether Adept, Stingscourger) might work better with the rest of your deck. It could also be the slot for the Archaeomancer you mentioned a few posts above.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Avaricious Dragon : Love that it's an aggressive 4 drop card engine, and since I typically run out of fuel fast, this seems more upside.
Liliana, Heretical Healer : Super easy to flip in the deck, can be tutored by recruiter, reanimation and discard is gravy, emblem is everything the deck would ever want.
Mizzium Meddler : Can really put a damper on removal, and is a wizard to boot.
What do you guys think?
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
New Liliana: Ya she's pretty sweet in theory. I'm going to be trying her in mine thats for sure.
Mizzium Meddler: I'm not feeling it. It's reminding me of Dualcaster Mage which i took out of my (duals) marchesa for the same reason: You cant re-use the effect with Marchesa. This ETB effect needs to be in responce to an opponents spell and Marchesa doesnt bring stuff back till the end step. Thats my 2 cents
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
But of course the downside is if we are ever left without a sac outlet and some means of haste or fast counters he's basically unplayable. He makes us discard our hand first and then has a giant target on his head the whole next round.
Constantly saccing and recycling guys is our bread and butter but it's tough to think about a guy who's borderline unplayable without that support.
New Liliana - seems sweet although it does concern me a bit that we aren't really set up to abuse her +2. Once things get in the graveyard for real they tend to stay dead. Love her minus though and if she lasts a turn the synergy between the two is great. Obviously the ultimate is amazing but ultimates are usually not relevant to regular play since you hardly ever get there
Mizzium Meddler - not really a fan of this guy. Totally agree with FearDReaper's assessment and I cut dualcaster for the same reason as well. I'd rather get Goblin Flectomancer in than this guy.
Avaricious Dragon - too much downside. "Trigger on the stack, Cyclonic Rift your board." I'd rather have an Outpost Siege if you need more gas. Both modes are good, enchantments are tougher to remove, and there's little downside besides it not being a creature.
Liliana, Heretical Healer - My group is super hostile towards planeswalkers and the -X mode is the only one I'm particularly interested in. Problem is, with a starting loyalty of 3, she'll usually need to tick up first in order to bring back something impactful. She is the one I'm most confident about though.
Mizzium Meddler - I'd rather have a sac outlet. Useful ability, but I don't like these sorts of triggers w/ a way to blink the creature.
Avaricious Dragon is pretty cool, but doesn't add a lot to this deck. You have UB in your color identity, you have much better creature-based draw available. A small, less risky guy like Sygg or even something like Vulturous Aven/Marchesa's Infiltrator (because flavor) would have much more synergy with the rest of the deck.
Meddler doesn't seem to add much, besides not doing much with Marchesa. I wouldn't play him over a counterspell.
Liliana is pretty cool. I'd playtest her. Lilies have an excellent history of being commander-playable.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck