Mike hits the things that matter like dragons or Kiki or zombies. Sure he misses a good chunk, but he more than makes up for it for what he can. Like rune said, it usually needs answering to or it's game. He and grey merchant and a clone can honestly finish off a game.
Maybe i'm addicted to overkill, but i've never felt that way about him. Jokulhaups can win you the game in that cmc, and twilight's call can also be fairly strong.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I understand how effective Mikaeus is in general. I'm just speaking in terms of my meta, where board wipes seem to happen, on average, about 4-5 times...per game. We usually play in groups of 4, but sometimes as many as 6. So in that environment, I'm looking at attacking with Marchesa and her fellow Homo Sapiens, then hoping they don't get Wrathed or Murdered more than once until it's my turn again. I really need Sage of Fables...LOL Currently, I'm compensating with quite a bit of graveyard recursion, like Hell's Caretaker, Phyrexian Reclamation, etc.
Voidmage Prodigy seems good here. You have a fair number of Wizard creatures and there's a reasonable chance it'll be able to get a +1/+1 counter to come back.
I personally cut pretty much anything with counter spells just because UU is so hard to come by. If I intended to use it, I would need UUUU to counter the turn I drop it. The only time it worked was entering from Grenzo or when it was just a win more con.
I personally cut pretty much anything with counter spells just because UU is so hard to come by. If I intended to use it, I would need UUUU to counter the turn I drop it. The only time it worked was entering from Grenzo or when it was just a win more con.
Ever been tempted to run Chromatic Lantern in place of one of the signets or talismans? It solves a lot of fixing problems, helps enable Sneak Attack, provides triple black for Necoropotence or Mikeaus, and can make generating UUUU easy as pie. I love it; rarely do I cut it from any of my 3+ color decks.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
I wouldn't want have a rock I drop t3 opening hand and I wouldn't want to add it in for blue because there's no real reason for counter spells. I used to love the idea but plenty of decks can play through counter spells or will push ahead if I durdle around spending extra mana to try and stop anyone. Marchesa is honestly "foot to the pedal" from t2 on. Voidmage Prodigy is definitely a win over time card since you neat to invest in the ability to just have access to its ability to counter. Dead to a cycled Decree of Pain and dead in Humility. If you want to control with Marchesa I think he's great along with Glen Elandra Archmage and similar counter bodies.
Has anyone played round with ixidron? I played a match against Ixidron and he made for some very interesting plays when I had creatures out with counters on them and a sac outlet. He seems like a good way to neutralize some enemy critters while we can pick and choose what critters we bring back.
I personally cut pretty much anything with counter spells just because UU is so hard to come by. If I intended to use it, I would need UUUU to counter the turn I drop it. The only time it worked was entering from Grenzo or when it was just a win more con.
I cut Voidmage Prodigy recently for exactly the same reason, it limits your other possible plays way to much.
Ever been tempted to run Chromatic Lantern in place of one of the signets or talismans? It solves a lot of fixing problems, helps enable Sneak Attack, provides triple black for Necoropotence or Mikeaus, and can make generating UUUU easy as pie. I love it; rarely do I cut it from any of my 3+ color decks.
Quote from Welgo » »
I wouldn't want have a rock I drop t3 opening hand and I wouldn't want to add it in for blue because there's no real reason for counter spells. I used to love the idea but plenty of decks can play through counter spells or will push ahead if I durdle around spending extra mana to try and stop anyone. Marchesa is honestly "foot to the pedal" from t2 on
Here I am also with Welgo. With Marchesa you want to drop as many creatures as possible early on, a 2cmc mana rock is ok here, because it accelerates you into your 4 drops on turn 3, wich the deck plays plenty of, and most of them are quite powerful. I also don't have a Sneak Attack, else I could see me at least try the lantern, just because Sneak Attack is so freakin strong.
I added Caretaker to my deck but haven't gotten to play with it yet. With it's 4 CMC and ability to sacrifice and bring back something else we might have lost earlier, it seems like a possibly nice addition. It can even sac itself in a pinch to bring something back.
Chainer I am still on the fence on and am still unable to find a copy of. I think it's be nice to steal and sac other's creatures, and even though it is 3 Black mana and 3 life, it still gives access to all the graves.
I think both are too slow for inclusion. Hell's Caretaker requires you to have both creatures to reanimate and a creature to sacrifice, otherwise it's just an overcosted reanimation spell. Chainer needs 8 mana to do anything at all, at which point you're better off playing powerful six mana curve toppers instead.
Caretaker is also upkeep only as well....Little too slow for me. Chainer is cool though, I started to play during Torment so I have a soft spot for him. It'd be neat to see him function well here but for me it is just a bit too slow.
Dragonlord Silumgar's colors and toughness are really working out for me. Sower of Temptation is great but has its limits. He has been doing some real work.
@theonecalledrune, I picked up Shadowborn Demon because it was 1 dollar. How has it been faring for you? The most optimal options I can see it being used is casting it after attacking with 'Chesa out to retrigger ETB dorks you have (via sacrifice check during upkeep); or sacrifice itself with a +1/+1 counter on it for recurring spot removal. Is the utility worth it? Also ever considered Phyrexian Plaguelord as a sac outlet? Instant speed, multiple activations, and can help keep those fast Elves or Goblin-based decks that the deck is weak to.
I had 2 fun games which I won both last Friday in a 4-man pod vs tuned Kaalia (aggro-geddon), Chainer (reanimator), and Brago (blink matters). I won Game1 due to a recurring Profaner of the Dead; Game2 I won at ONE LIFE after I got to Sneak Attack a Bearer of the Heavens with lots of dudes and 'Chesa out. Recovered with a full hand and some life thanks to 2x Disciple of Bolas :))
shadowborn demon has been pretty average, hit or miss, honestly just because he's a cheap good sized beater with removal stapled on. Plaguelord actually looks like its worth testing, I actually think it may be better just for having a sac outlet attached.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
If you like Hell's Caretaker try Doomed Necromancer or better Apprentice Necromancer. Does the same job faster and cheaper. Also Necromancy can abuse an etb instantly and if you can get a counter on it any creature in the grave is fair game. Its a bit off for what the deck goes for but can stun and steal some games people think they have answered.
@theonecalledrune:
Hi, I'd like to ask you, if the deck list on first page is still actual. This thread has a lot of posts every day, so I wonder if it's up to date. There are missing cards like Profaner of the Dead or Sidisi, Undead Vizier which I think can be good in Marchesa...
Is Profaner really all that good? Seems very condition-dependent, although I could see a lot of token decks getting absolutely hosed by it. Dead Sidisi seems like a must-add though. Recurrable Diabolic Intent seems far too good to pass up.
Profaner is not something you'd always want to have, but when you need it, it is capable of controlling the board andswinging the game slowly to your favor. Tutorable too with Fleshwrither. Also I play the black Sidisi and she's perfect for the deck. (on curve into Jokulhaups haha)
Toyed around with Gatherer today. Found me some nifty toys to play with.
Shifty Doppelganger. Good for big-creature builds. With 'Chesa out, the creature you snuck in sticks around Disciple of Griselbrand. I have been known to be greedy for eating up my life total to dangerously low levels. Multiple instant speed and 2 less to activate than Miren, the Moaning Well is something to look into for regulating life totals. Ghoulcaller Gisa. Okay she may be a bit costly and is just one time to activate, but the appeal of an instant speed army of chumpblockers helps whenever you tap out when attacking with 'Chesa dethrones. Plus, who can resist that wicked smile???
I'm not really feeling the other cards. They are cheaper and faster yes, but they require targeting themselves and tapping. Hell's Caretaker is not only tutorable, but it also lets it sacrifice anything else or itself. Sure this is balanced by being slower, but it allows me to sac creatures with +1/+1 counters and not only get them back at the end of turn, but get them back and have a friend with them. I wouldn't use Necromancy due to it still giving things summoning sickness and possibly killing them at the end of turn without counters.
Caretaker is still in the testing stage for me. Last week I only got to play my Rafiq and Mishra decks.
Whip of Erebos is the card you'll want to get if your life is low. I'm not sure how you guys tutor, but I'll usually sit on a black tutor for most the game and when I've drained my life too fast, the Whip gives me enough to survive and entire round even I was too low. Other than that, Disciple of Bolas is the only nonland permanent I'd advise investing in life gain since they have some super cool other uses. I would never use a mana sac outlet unless it was draw/removal. Odds are if you need the health you wont want to give up mana. I don't think Marchesa wants to go too big and the only way you want to cheat in is Sneak Attack. I understand if people don't have it now but whatever recreation you have I'd advise putting off til you get one.
Sneak Attack. I understand if people don't have it now but whatever recreation you have I'd advise putting off til you get one.
Agreed. It's a great time to pick up Sneak Attack--it might be at a seasonal low right now. I got a great deal on mine recently, I think it's entirely possible to snag one under $40. If you don't have one, you know it's tempting!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
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URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I understand how effective Mikaeus is in general. I'm just speaking in terms of my meta, where board wipes seem to happen, on average, about 4-5 times...per game. We usually play in groups of 4, but sometimes as many as 6. So in that environment, I'm looking at attacking with Marchesa and her fellow Homo Sapiens, then hoping they don't get Wrathed or Murdered more than once until it's my turn again. I really need Sage of Fables...LOL Currently, I'm compensating with quite a bit of graveyard recursion, like Hell's Caretaker, Phyrexian Reclamation, etc.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I cut Voidmage Prodigy recently for exactly the same reason, it limits your other possible plays way to much.
Here I am also with Welgo. With Marchesa you want to drop as many creatures as possible early on, a 2cmc mana rock is ok here, because it accelerates you into your 4 drops on turn 3, wich the deck plays plenty of, and most of them are quite powerful. I also don't have a Sneak Attack, else I could see me at least try the lantern, just because Sneak Attack is so freakin strong.
I added Caretaker to my deck but haven't gotten to play with it yet. With it's 4 CMC and ability to sacrifice and bring back something else we might have lost earlier, it seems like a possibly nice addition. It can even sac itself in a pinch to bring something back.
Chainer I am still on the fence on and am still unable to find a copy of. I think it's be nice to steal and sac other's creatures, and even though it is 3 Black mana and 3 life, it still gives access to all the graves.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Dragonlord Silumgar's colors and toughness are really working out for me. Sower of Temptation is great but has its limits. He has been doing some real work.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I had 2 fun games which I won both last Friday in a 4-man pod vs tuned Kaalia (aggro-geddon), Chainer (reanimator), and Brago (blink matters). I won Game1 due to a recurring Profaner of the Dead; Game2 I won at ONE LIFE after I got to Sneak Attack a Bearer of the Heavens with lots of dudes and 'Chesa out. Recovered with a full hand and some life thanks to 2x Disciple of Bolas :))
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
It's not up to date.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
IRL: Patron of the Moon
Shifty Doppelganger. Good for big-creature builds. With 'Chesa out, the creature you snuck in sticks around
Disciple of Griselbrand. I have been known to be greedy for eating up my life total to dangerously low levels. Multiple instant speed and 2 less to activate than Miren, the Moaning Well is something to look into for regulating life totals.
Ghoulcaller Gisa. Okay she may be a bit costly and is just one time to activate, but the appeal of an instant speed army of chumpblockers helps whenever you tap out when attacking with 'Chesa dethrones. Plus, who can resist that wicked smile???
Caretaker is still in the testing stage for me. Last week I only got to play my Rafiq and Mishra decks.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU