Ok great guys thanks! I'll work on getting those pieces and get back to you. I just want her to work. And right now she is far from working lol
I'll probably be able to get everything except the clique. My trade binder is lacking to say the least lol
Ok great guys thanks! I'll work on getting those pieces and get back to you. I just want her to work. And right now she is far from working lol
I'll probably be able to get everything except the clique. My trade binder is lacking to say the least lol
Clique should be a far far last priority. I was running it just because I had one and there were a few combo decks in my meta. It under performed quite frequently. If you can, sneak attack is the one thing you should really splurge on. It is insane in the deck.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I figured since I have been following this thread since I started my Marchesa deck, I would post my version here and see what you thought of it. I have a similar build with a few personal touches to it. I used the same format Solrune used for their original deck list, and removed the cards I don't have and added the ones I use for my personal touch.
In gatherings and play testings, Marchesa does decently (I don't play to win so much as I play to have fun and cause shenanigans). There is another Marchesa deck where I play, and so which ever one of us gains power first tends to be the target. I haven't played everyone at my locals (having just moved to a new area), but for the most part there are GrimGrins, Marchesa, Maelstrom Wanderer, and Thassa.
So let me know your opinions! I'm eager to hear them and I love questions and criticism!
Your deck list looks solid, Honestly the only cards that really stick out to me a subpar are desecration demon and exava, rakdos blood witch. Exava doesn't give haste to the creatures you need it to, my suggested replacement would be Urabrask the Hidden. He is not too expensive and does much more work in that slot. Demon can be replaced kiki-jiki, mirror breaker. I know he's a bit pricey, but doubling up on all your etb's is more than worth it. If it's definitely out of your price range Rune-Scared Demon and Grey Merchant of Asphodel are both solid includes as well. I tend to win my games either cloning grey merchant alot or using rune-scarred to search all the clones in my deck and make a massive air force.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Alright guys well I'll be trolling through this entire thread today looking at different deck lists and deciding how I want to build it. I like the idea of having a Gray Merchant of Asphodel, so I'll definitely add that. And There are a lot more good etb effects than I thought with some of these creatures so ill definitely be doing some trading to get some of these guys.
How many board wipes do people tend to run? It seems like I run too many board wipess and not enough spot removal so Im going to switch it around for this deck and try the opposite. There always seems to be just one problem creature while I have a healthy board state, and the last thing I wanna do which happens a lot is have 2-3 board wiped in my hand and never have a good time to use them.
Also how do people feel about Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain? Are running little draw spells like this helpful or should they be filled with some other form of draw?
@Tabris- I really like your list. I will be stealing a few Ideas from it. Hell I might pretty well just copy it lol
the only boardwipe i run is living death, its personal preferance i think. As far as cantrip spells go, i've never been a fan of them in edh, and im well aware how good they are in constructed(i play legacy miracles). I play my version as a tempo/aggro deck, so I usually dont have mana for that stuff. Baleful strix is just better in that slot.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
the only boardwipe i run is living death, its personal preferance i think. As far as cantrip spells go, i've never been a fan of them in edh, and im well aware how good they are in constructed(i play legacy miracles). I play my version as a tempo/aggro deck, so I usually dont have mana for that stuff. Baleful strix is just better in that slot.
I can definitely understand that. With your version are you usually playing 1v1 or multiplayer? This deck will gear towards 3 player games, since my other decks are far better in 1v1 than this is lol
Do you ever wish you could change it into a midrange/late game? Or are you still enjoying the arggro/tempo style? Thats what I was initally gearing towards at first but just lost sight once I tried to move it towards midrange. (Haven't seen any list with duskmantle seer but honestly he was one of my favorite cards to see on the play. I play a lot of naya/rug/jund style decks so they always have higher costed stuff to reveal than I do).
This deck plays like an aggro deck but has an amazing late game. If we get to turn 7 or eight I almost always win. By then I've seen enough cards to grab my combo, set myself way too far ahead, or have literally killed everyone at the table. I usually play in pods of 3-5 depending on who is present. 1v1 I flat out lose to quite a bit of decks.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I would like to see videos of games in your meta. For me at least, it would give me a better idea on what you deal with and how your deck deals with it.
I overhauled my Marchesa deck and put a bunch of fatties in it. They are mostly ETB creature, but I think some cards like Havengul Lich warrant playing regardless of not providing ETB value. Marchesa's role becomes more supportive, but I love it when I get her to repeat an ETB effect. With my deck style, I should try to play more control cards, right?
I would like to see videos of games in your meta. For me at least, it would give me a better idea on what you deal with and how your deck deals with it.
I overhauled my Marchesa deck and put a bunch of fatties in it. They are mostly ETB creature, but I think some cards like Havengul Lich warrant playing regardless of not providing ETB value. Marchesa's role becomes more supportive, but I love it when I get her to repeat an ETB effect. With my deck style, I should try to play more control cards, right?
If you want to be running a five drop with an activated ability that requires an additional mana investment and a bunch of other fatties then you should take pains to not die before getting the lich going. I run a lich, I like it, but it also rots in hand a lot. There's either not much worth recurring, or not enough mana (or time) to spare.
This is my current list. I'd describe it as the proverbial "75%" in my meta. I tend to swap cards in and out a lot, usually w/o enough thought to how effective they'll be Right now I'm looking for room for a Hex Parasite (darn Super Friends decks) and a Torch Fiend (plays nice w/ Necrotic Ooze).
This list is also just five cards away from being foiled out
This deck plays like an aggro deck but has an amazing late game. If we get to turn 7 or eight I almost always win. By then I've seen enough cards to grab my combo, set myself way too far ahead, or have literally killed everyone at the table. I usually play in pods of 3-5 depending on who is present. 1v1 I flat out lose to quite a bit of decks.
I would call into question some of the midrangey creatures in here, in that case. Also, Marton Stromgald feels kinda win-more if you're going for an aggro plan.
Not the most powerful Marchesa build but I like all the synergies. It definitely needs a Ghost Quarter at LEAST, and is hurting from the loss of Academy Ruins which I put into my cube, but overall it's a fun deck to play. If anyone hasn't tried Oona's Blackguard already, I suggest you try it.
This deck plays like an aggro deck but has an amazing late game. If we get to turn 7 or eight I almost always win. By then I've seen enough cards to grab my combo, set myself way too far ahead, or have literally killed everyone at the table. I usually play in pods of 3-5 depending on who is present. 1v1 I flat out lose to quite a bit of decks.
I would call into question some of the midrangey creatures in here, in that case. Also, Marton Stromgald feels kinda win-more if you're going for an aggro plan.
Marton Stromgald is the difference between killing 1 player to killing the table in the same swing. Sometimes he's the best tool of getting through ramping green decks and their fatties, or surviving their attacks (remember he triggers for blocks too). He is our version of craterhoof, and would probably only replace him if they reprinted him with better art.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
He also can make a decent board threatening. Late game after a boardwipe and grave clear or other scenario we hate he can make the board your rebuilding a threat to everyone. I've top decked him with a few dudes like Pain Seer and Goblin Flectomancer to swing for 20ish damage. I've also managed to control a late game board with Felshwrither searches and capped it off with him to swing lethal. He was so impactful in games I played against him I inadvertently waited a month or so before getting him because I assumed he was pricy.
You could always go around straight reanimator or combo routes, she is great colors for it. I've even seen someone run her as just a straight control general with all the fixings because she is just value town. Really you can make her fit whatever play style you like.
I am actually finding Marchesa, the Black Rose suboptimal as a traditional reanimator commander. Playing with my value fatties like Sepulchral Primordial and Sphinx of Uthuun, I think Sedris, the Traitor King's Unearthing is preferable to Marchesa's abilities as I see it being more relevant more often and abuse-able as well. She beats face with an army of cheap, efficient dudes for sure, but that is not the direction I want to take with my EDH deck.
I will probably change my commander, but I still appreciate this primer and will keep my eyes open here. I disagree that the choice between Sedris and Marchesa as your general is simply a matter of preference. Rather, Sedris works best with big-CMC value creatures while Marchesa thrives with a curve of efficient, cheap creatures. The two generals and their optimal decks are not interchangeable, I've found.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Why don't you play Arcbound Ravager? If I understand correctly, it's allow u to put a counter on one of your creatures on your and every other player turn. It can give Marchesa the defense she need when she enters the battle field, or defend any other creature in instant speed. Not as good as Unspeakable Symbol, but still good. If u clone it, attack with both to get counters and then sac both, it gives u 5 counters for Sage of Hours infinite turns combo. And it's a free sac for your artifacts.
Why don't you play Arcbound Ravager? If I understand correctly, it's allow u to put a counter on one of your creatures on your and every other player turn. It can give Marchesa the defense she need when she enters the battle field, or defend any other creature in instant speed. Not as good as Unspeakable Symbol, but still good. If u clone it, attack with both to get counters and then sac both, it gives u 5 counters for Sage of Hours infinite turns combo. And it's a free sac for your artifacts.
Modular only affects artifact creatures unfortunately.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Figure since the thread has been quiet a while I'd bring up some cool cards I've been testing Rune's doesnt run. I know I've brought up some of them before, but I've noticed we have a few more posting so I figured I'd bring some up.
Olivia Voldaren has become an all-star in games I play against control. With a sac outlet, I can keep what I take. It's usually only one a game, but it either was something awesome to turn sideways or a pesky commander like momir vig.
Goblin Matron and a goblin package has been really solid for months now, including Kiki-Jiki, Goblin Flectomancer, Tuktuk Scrapper, and Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, who is a great way to cheat in most of your deck. It may be RNG but a good Marchesa deck should have 45+ creatures in my opinion, so it hits reliably, and with the right amount of interesting ETBs, can end up actually providing answers in response to something like a combo. I've dug four creatures in a turn that gave me access to a redirect and a counter that stopped a player from winning. He also is awesome with River Kelpie and Flayer of the Hatebound
Anyone else have some all-stars you haven't seen in Rune's deck or mentioned on the forum?
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I've built my deck close to Rune's build, but I also have it so I can keep a bit of my own individuality in it...I also don't have the funds to get some of the more expensive cards Rune uses. Keep in mind that my Marchesa is exclusively for 3+ player games (I use Rafiq for my 1v1 games). Here are a few of my personal All-Stars that have changed games for me...
Tauren Mauler: GREAT card once Marchesa is on the field. He not only builds up power, but he also saves himself if he dies while Marchesa is on the field.
Dimir Doppelganger: For those times when you can't get the graveyard hate, need/want to steal something your opponent lost to the grave, OR if you want to reincarnate your own creature. I had one game where I made it into a copy of GrimGrin, Corpse-Born and went to town with sacing effects and swinging. Sometimes, I feel this is a better card over Puppeteer Clique, only because it's easier to cast and I never want to cast Clique when it shows up.
Chromatic Lantern: Fixes my mana issues, and produces mana itself. Not always readily available, but when it does show up it puts in work.
Lim-Dul's Vault: Not only does it lower my life to help with dethrone, but it also allows me to do an in-depth scry. Every time it's shown up, it's been used to change the entire flow of my deck, and its always been for the better.
Soul Manipulation: It's the only counter I use, and mostly because not only does it disrupt my opponents flow, but it allows me to grab a creature from my grave and give it a second chance to impress the Black Rose.
Desecration Demon: It's not something my opponents expect, but it does it's job. Either they pay the price to tap and give it a counter, thus lowering their board presence and giving him a chance to revive by Marchesa, OR I get a 6/6 flying blocker (or attacker) to ave myself from flying threats.
Abyssal Persecutor: holds mostly the same idea as Desecration Demon, but also adds trample. I've also had a few opponents (2), who have let themselves get low in life because he is on the field, only for me to sac him and let myself or another end that player. However, he is mostly in there for a cheap 6/6 flying defense.
Oona, Queen of the Fae: A bit pricey mana wise, but if she lives, she causes hell for mono-colored decks, a few of which run at my locals. Duel colors also get hit nicely. 3 or more colors and she becomes iffy, but overall she is a nice addition for her role. Her milling in combo with graveyard exile or Dimir Doppelganger can sometimes be fantastic, especially if she mills something awesome.
Those are my unique All-Stars. Each has a special place to me, and if I had to, I think only Soul Manipulation and Abyssal Persecutor would get removed. Otherwise, each of them has helped me on multiple occasions, and have earned their place among Marchesa's army.
Learn patience. A lot of us can't check this daily.
It seems your deck runs different than that of the standard (Solrune's deck). You run a lot of big non creature cards and slower rocks. In my opinion, you should honestly cut just about all of them. Let me break down the running (very successfully) theme in the decks a lot of us build.
Marchesa has a very unique ability, offering a form of protection/reanimation so long as you keep attacking and you make sure you don't have the most life. Marchesa is best paired with lots and lots of creatures with etb or death effects so that you always are fighting for board dominance and still interacting/drawing. Since the reanimation requires first swinging and sacraficing, haste and 0 cost sac outlets are big. You want the bulk of your deck to hit the board before you drop Marchesa so you can build up the counters right away. This is why lots of 2 cmc mana rocks are great. You'll never have a game without a 4 drop creature. Drop one turn three, then Marchesa after or maybe more before dropping her. There is also a very solid theme that can be run in the deck based around creatures having 4 cmc and/or 2 or less power. Dimir Houseguard, Clutch of the Undercity, Fleshwrither and Imperial Recruiter (you can probably skip recruiter >2 aspect it's very pricy) help tutor the expansive toolbox you have access to in these colors, which fits with the idea where we drop a good creature before Marchesa. Know how grixis doesn't have good enchantment removal to get rid of that pillow fort player? Aura Thief steals it and another player's Sylvan Library AND returns to threaten to take more. Like potentially free, instant speed, repeatable removal for creatures? Mer-Ek Nightblade and cards like Deathbringer Thoctar or Goblin Sharpshooter. There are plenty of other examples, look over Rune's deck. Mine needs a huge update, but my closing words are get Sneak Attack
Learn patience. A lot of us can't check this daily.
It seems your deck runs different than that of the standard (Solrune's deck). You run a lot of big non creature cards and slower rocks. In my opinion, you should honestly cut just about all of them. Let me break down the running (very successfully) theme in the decks a lot of us build.
Marchesa has a very unique ability, offering a form of protection/reanimation so long as you keep attacking and you make sure you don't have the most life. Marchesa is best paired with lots and lots of creatures with etb or death effects so that you always are fighting for board dominance and still interacting/drawing. Since the reanimation requires first swinging and sacraficing, haste and 0 cost sac outlets are big. You want the bulk of your deck to hit the board before you drop Marchesa so you can build up the counters right away. This is why lots of 2 cmc mana rocks are great. You'll never have a game without a 4 drop creature. Drop one turn three, then Marchesa after or maybe more before dropping her. There is also a very solid theme that can be run in the deck based around creatures having 4 cmc and/or 2 or less power. Dimir Houseguard, Clutch of the Undercity, Fleshwrither and Imperial Recruiter (you can probably skip recruiter >2 aspect it's very pricy) help tutor the expansive toolbox you have access to in these colors, which fits with the idea where we drop a good creature before Marchesa. Know how grixis doesn't have good enchantment removal to get rid of that pillow fort player? Aura Thief steals it and another player's Sylvan Library AND returns to threaten to take more. Like potentially free, instant speed, repeatable removal for creatures? Mer-Ek Nightblade and cards like Deathbringer Thoctar or Goblin Sharpshooter. There are plenty of other examples, look over Rune's deck. Mine needs a huge update, but my closing words are get Sneak Attack
So to start with I need to up my creature count to take advantage of Marchesa's ability. I also need to get some of my more expensive mana rocks swapped out for some 2 CMC alternatives. I'll cut some of the 'goodstuff' cards for more cheaper creatures that work well with Marchesa. Thanks for the input!
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I'll probably be able to get everything except the clique. My trade binder is lacking to say the least lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Clique should be a far far last priority. I was running it just because I had one and there were a few combo decks in my meta. It under performed quite frequently. If you can, sneak attack is the one thing you should really splurge on. It is insane in the deck.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Creatures (Sorted by CMC)
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Viscera Seer
2 Baleful Strix
2 Pain Seer
2 Sage of Hours
3 Hellhole Flailer
3 Chasm Skulker
3 Taurean Mauler
3 Feldon of the Third Path
3 Grim Haruspex
3 Sage of Fables
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Olivia Voldaren
4 Desecration Demon
4 Evil Twin
4 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Cytoplast Manipulator
4 Anger
4 Agent of Erebos
4 Aura Thief
4 Clever Impersonator
4 Dack's Duplicate
4 Dimir House Guard
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Fleshwrither
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Necrotic Ooze
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
5 Puppeteer Clique
5 River Kelpie
6 Flayer of the Hatebound
6 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
6 Harvester Of Souls
6 Scourge of the Throne
6 Duplicant
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Dismember
3 Perplex
3 Chaos Warp
Sorceries
3 Buried Alive
5 Living Death
Support permanents (Sorted by CMC)
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Attrition
3 Unspeakable Symbol
3 Fervor
3 Necropotence
4 Grave pact
5 Eldrazi Monument
7 Grave Betrayal
Ramp (Sorted by CMC)
1 Sol Ring
2 Mind Stone
2 Dimir Signet
2 Izzet Signet
2 Rakdos Signet
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Talisman of Indulgence
3 Obelisk of Grixis
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Commander's Sphere
Lands
0 Temple of the False God
0 Akoum Refuge
0 City of Brass
0 Rakdos Carnarium
0 Crumbling Necropolis
0 Grixis Panorama
0 Ghost Quarter
0 Barren Moor
0 Izzet Boilerworks
0 Bloodstained Mire
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Polluted Delta
0 Blood Crypt
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Command Tower
0 Dragonskull Summit
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Island (x5)
0 Mountain (x4)
0 Opal Palace
0 Steam Vents
0 Sulfur Falls
0 Swamp (x6)
0 Tainted Isle
0 Tolaria West
0 Watery Grave
I am saving up to get a few other cards for this deck. Spellskite, Filth, Sakashima the Imposter, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Preyseizer Dragon, and Clutch of the Undercity are the key ones I want to get and find room for. I'm not sold on the Necrotic Ooze combos, but I do like using Buried Alive, even at sorcery speed, to put 3 cards in my grave opposed to 1. I'm thinking of adding Wonder to the deck once I get Filth. Some cards, Like Sneak Attack and Imperial Recruiter are FAR out of my price range.
In gatherings and play testings, Marchesa does decently (I don't play to win so much as I play to have fun and cause shenanigans). There is another Marchesa deck where I play, and so which ever one of us gains power first tends to be the target. I haven't played everyone at my locals (having just moved to a new area), but for the most part there are GrimGrins, Marchesa, Maelstrom Wanderer, and Thassa.
So let me know your opinions! I'm eager to hear them and I love questions and criticism!
Hope that helps!
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
How many board wipes do people tend to run? It seems like I run too many board wipess and not enough spot removal so Im going to switch it around for this deck and try the opposite. There always seems to be just one problem creature while I have a healthy board state, and the last thing I wanna do which happens a lot is have 2-3 board wiped in my hand and never have a good time to use them.
Old deck I ran:
Should I keep all these cards? Or too many wipes?
Also how do people feel about Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain? Are running little draw spells like this helpful or should they be filled with some other form of draw?
@Tabris- I really like your list. I will be stealing a few Ideas from it. Hell I might pretty well just copy it lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I can definitely understand that. With your version are you usually playing 1v1 or multiplayer? This deck will gear towards 3 player games, since my other decks are far better in 1v1 than this is lol
Do you ever wish you could change it into a midrange/late game? Or are you still enjoying the arggro/tempo style? Thats what I was initally gearing towards at first but just lost sight once I tried to move it towards midrange. (Haven't seen any list with duskmantle seer but honestly he was one of my favorite cards to see on the play. I play a lot of naya/rug/jund style decks so they always have higher costed stuff to reveal than I do).
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I overhauled my Marchesa deck and put a bunch of fatties in it. They are mostly ETB creature, but I think some cards like Havengul Lich warrant playing regardless of not providing ETB value. Marchesa's role becomes more supportive, but I love it when I get her to repeat an ETB effect. With my deck style, I should try to play more control cards, right?
If you want to be running a five drop with an activated ability that requires an additional mana investment and a bunch of other fatties then you should take pains to not die before getting the lich going. I run a lich, I like it, but it also rots in hand a lot. There's either not much worth recurring, or not enough mana (or time) to spare.
This is my current list. I'd describe it as the proverbial "75%" in my meta. I tend to swap cards in and out a lot, usually w/o enough thought to how effective they'll be Right now I'm looking for room for a Hex Parasite (darn Super Friends decks) and a Torch Fiend (plays nice w/ Necrotic Ooze).
This list is also just five cards away from being foiled out
1 Baleful Strix
1 Burnished Hart
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Chasm Skulker
1 Dack's Duplicate
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Filth
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Fleshwrither
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
1 Havengul Lich
1 Hellhole Flailer
1 Hound of Griselbrand
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Jalira, Master Polymorphist
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Marchesa, the Black Rose
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Moriok Replica
1 Mortician Beetle
1 Mulldrifter
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Nekrataal
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sage of Fables
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Trinket Mage
1 Viscera Seer
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Grave Pact
1 Necropotence
1 Sneak Attack
1 Unspeakable Symbol
1 Chaos Warp
1 Clutch of the Undercity
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cabal Coffers
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Flamekin Village
1 Great Furnace
4 Island
4 Mountain
1 Opal Palace
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Soldevi Excavations
1 Steam Vents
5 Swamp
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Volcanic Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Watery Grave
1 Death Cloud
1 Exsanguinate
1 Living Death
1 Mark of Mutiny
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crystal Ball
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Sol Ring
I would call into question some of the midrangey creatures in here, in that case. Also, Marton Stromgald feels kinda win-more if you're going for an aggro plan.
6 Swamp
4 Island
3 Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Command Tower
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 City of Brass
1 Opal Palace
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Underground River
1 Shivan Reef
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Great Furnace
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Viscera Seer
1 Oona's Blackguard
1 Voidmage Prodigy
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
1 Baleful Strix
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Goblin Flectomancer
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Trinket Mage
1 Flesh Carver
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Chasm Skulker
1 Sage of Fables
1 Burnished Hart
1 Man-o'-War
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Fleshwrither
1 Thalakos Deceiver
1 Cytoplast Manipulator
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Dack's Duplicate
1 Anger
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
1 Mer-Ek Nightblade
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Marton Stromgald
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Mulldrifter
1 River Kelpie
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Thraximundar
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Sol Ring
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Helm of Possession
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Unspeakable Symbol
1 Necropotence
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Living Death
Not the most powerful Marchesa build but I like all the synergies. It definitely needs a Ghost Quarter at LEAST, and is hurting from the loss of Academy Ruins which I put into my cube, but overall it's a fun deck to play. If anyone hasn't tried Oona's Blackguard already, I suggest you try it.
Marton Stromgald is the difference between killing 1 player to killing the table in the same swing. Sometimes he's the best tool of getting through ramping green decks and their fatties, or surviving their attacks (remember he triggers for blocks too). He is our version of craterhoof, and would probably only replace him if they reprinted him with better art.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I am actually finding Marchesa, the Black Rose suboptimal as a traditional reanimator commander. Playing with my value fatties like Sepulchral Primordial and Sphinx of Uthuun, I think Sedris, the Traitor King's Unearthing is preferable to Marchesa's abilities as I see it being more relevant more often and abuse-able as well. She beats face with an army of cheap, efficient dudes for sure, but that is not the direction I want to take with my EDH deck.
I will probably change my commander, but I still appreciate this primer and will keep my eyes open here. I disagree that the choice between Sedris and Marchesa as your general is simply a matter of preference. Rather, Sedris works best with big-CMC value creatures while Marchesa thrives with a curve of efficient, cheap creatures. The two generals and their optimal decks are not interchangeable, I've found.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Modular only affects artifact creatures unfortunately.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Olivia Voldaren has become an all-star in games I play against control. With a sac outlet, I can keep what I take. It's usually only one a game, but it either was something awesome to turn sideways or a pesky commander like momir vig.
Mer-Ek Nightblade was added to just make my creatures rattlesnakes and more likely to connect, but with Olivia, Flayer of the Hatebound and Goblin Sharpshooter he's been great for cleaning up a board.
Goblin Matron and a goblin package has been really solid for months now, including Kiki-Jiki, Goblin Flectomancer, Tuktuk Scrapper, and Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, who is a great way to cheat in most of your deck. It may be RNG but a good Marchesa deck should have 45+ creatures in my opinion, so it hits reliably, and with the right amount of interesting ETBs, can end up actually providing answers in response to something like a combo. I've dug four creatures in a turn that gave me access to a redirect and a counter that stopped a player from winning. He also is awesome with River Kelpie and Flayer of the Hatebound
Anyone else have some all-stars you haven't seen in Rune's deck or mentioned on the forum?
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Tauren Mauler: GREAT card once Marchesa is on the field. He not only builds up power, but he also saves himself if he dies while Marchesa is on the field.
Dimir Doppelganger: For those times when you can't get the graveyard hate, need/want to steal something your opponent lost to the grave, OR if you want to reincarnate your own creature. I had one game where I made it into a copy of GrimGrin, Corpse-Born and went to town with sacing effects and swinging. Sometimes, I feel this is a better card over Puppeteer Clique, only because it's easier to cast and I never want to cast Clique when it shows up.
Chromatic Lantern: Fixes my mana issues, and produces mana itself. Not always readily available, but when it does show up it puts in work.
Lim-Dul's Vault: Not only does it lower my life to help with dethrone, but it also allows me to do an in-depth scry. Every time it's shown up, it's been used to change the entire flow of my deck, and its always been for the better.
Soul Manipulation: It's the only counter I use, and mostly because not only does it disrupt my opponents flow, but it allows me to grab a creature from my grave and give it a second chance to impress the Black Rose.
Desecration Demon: It's not something my opponents expect, but it does it's job. Either they pay the price to tap and give it a counter, thus lowering their board presence and giving him a chance to revive by Marchesa, OR I get a 6/6 flying blocker (or attacker) to ave myself from flying threats.
Abyssal Persecutor: holds mostly the same idea as Desecration Demon, but also adds trample. I've also had a few opponents (2), who have let themselves get low in life because he is on the field, only for me to sac him and let myself or another end that player. However, he is mostly in there for a cheap 6/6 flying defense.
Oona, Queen of the Fae: A bit pricey mana wise, but if she lives, she causes hell for mono-colored decks, a few of which run at my locals. Duel colors also get hit nicely. 3 or more colors and she becomes iffy, but overall she is a nice addition for her role. Her milling in combo with graveyard exile or Dimir Doppelganger can sometimes be fantastic, especially if she mills something awesome.
Those are my unique All-Stars. Each has a special place to me, and if I had to, I think only Soul Manipulation and Abyssal Persecutor would get removed. Otherwise, each of them has helped me on multiple occasions, and have earned their place among Marchesa's army.
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Necrotic Ooze
Here's my list as of today:
1x Marchesa, the Black Rose
Ramp:9
1x Mind Stone
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Obelisk of Grixis
1x Sol Ring
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Commander's Sphere
+1/+1 Counters:2
1x Unspeakable Symbol
1x Dragon Blood
Sac Outlets:5
1x Carnage Altar
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Infernal Tribute
1x Attrition
Tutor:1
1x Increasing Ambition
Non-Creature Spells:18
1x Magmaquake
1x Grave Betrayal
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Tezzeret, the Seeker
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Greed
1x Chaos Warp
1x Unstable Obelisk
1x Crosis's Charm
1x Darksteel Plate
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Victimize
1x No Mercy
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
1x Preyseizer Dragon
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Cytoplast Manipulator
1x Taurean Mauler
1x Burnished Hart
1x Desecration Demon
1x Dack's Duplicate
1x Mulldrifter
1x Tymaret, the Murder King
1x Anathemancer
1x Viashino Heretic
1x Disciple of Bolas
1x Sphinx of Magosi
1x Molten Primordial
1x River Kelpie
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Oona's Blackguard
1x Chasm Skulker
1x Sage of Fables
1x Shriekmaw
1x Notion Thief
1x Flayer of the Hatebound (WINS games!)
1x Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
1x Stalking Vengeance
1x Feldon of the Third Path
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Dualcaster Mage
Lands:36
2x Swamp
2x Mountain
2x Island
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x City of Brass
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Rupture Spire
1x Opal Palace (ALL STAR)
1x Dismal Backwater
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Dimir Guildgate
1x Jwar Isle Refuge
1x Strip Mine
1x Vivid Creek
1x Steam Vents
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Blood Crypt
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Flamekin Village
1x Command Tower
1x Swiftwater Cliffs
1x Grixis Panorama
1x Bloodstained Mire
Any input would be great! I love the deck and want to make it work!
Zero Marchesa love eh?
It seems your deck runs different than that of the standard (Solrune's deck). You run a lot of big non creature cards and slower rocks. In my opinion, you should honestly cut just about all of them. Let me break down the running (very successfully) theme in the decks a lot of us build.
Marchesa has a very unique ability, offering a form of protection/reanimation so long as you keep attacking and you make sure you don't have the most life. Marchesa is best paired with lots and lots of creatures with etb or death effects so that you always are fighting for board dominance and still interacting/drawing. Since the reanimation requires first swinging and sacraficing, haste and 0 cost sac outlets are big. You want the bulk of your deck to hit the board before you drop Marchesa so you can build up the counters right away. This is why lots of 2 cmc mana rocks are great. You'll never have a game without a 4 drop creature. Drop one turn three, then Marchesa after or maybe more before dropping her. There is also a very solid theme that can be run in the deck based around creatures having 4 cmc and/or 2 or less power. Dimir Houseguard, Clutch of the Undercity, Fleshwrither and Imperial Recruiter (you can probably skip recruiter >2 aspect it's very pricy) help tutor the expansive toolbox you have access to in these colors, which fits with the idea where we drop a good creature before Marchesa. Know how grixis doesn't have good enchantment removal to get rid of that pillow fort player? Aura Thief steals it and another player's Sylvan Library AND returns to threaten to take more. Like potentially free, instant speed, repeatable removal for creatures? Mer-Ek Nightblade and cards like Deathbringer Thoctar or Goblin Sharpshooter. There are plenty of other examples, look over Rune's deck. Mine needs a huge update, but my closing words are get Sneak Attack
Edit: If you like Opal Palace run Sage of Fables
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
So to start with I need to up my creature count to take advantage of Marchesa's ability. I also need to get some of my more expensive mana rocks swapped out for some 2 CMC alternatives. I'll cut some of the 'goodstuff' cards for more cheaper creatures that work well with Marchesa. Thanks for the input!