Finished my deck on saturday and played a bit.
Wondering why you aren't running Necropotence or Volrath's stronghold. They both seem real good, especially necro
Would Evil twin be a better clone than Sakashmia/Impersonator?
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Finished my deck on saturday and played a bit.
Wondering why you aren't running Necropotence or Volrath's stronghold. They both seem real good, especially necro
I run Necropotence in my build and I can confirm it's very good. It's especially nice as a Devotion enabler for Gary and Erebos. The only downside is it makes Chasm Skulker a lot worse.
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Opinions on the idea of Alchemist's Apprentice]? Its been a decent cantrip at worst and a Phyrexian Arena at best. Its as good as seeing Pain Seer in opening hand and can sac himself before combat damage if your trying to keep the throne somewhere on the table. My deck plays a lot more casually, but I figured it was worth mentioning.
Opinions on the idea of Alchemist's Apprentice]? Its been a decent cantrip at worst and a Phyrexian Arena at best. Its as good as seeing Pain Seer in opening hand and can sac himself before combat damage if your trying to keep the throne somewhere on the table. My deck plays a lot more casually, but I figured it was worth mentioning.
I think there's so many cards vying for inclusion in Marchesa lists that this one is nowhere close to making the cut. If it cost just U, then maybe, but it is such a low impact card that I would not run this when you have access to Mulldrifter, River Kelpie, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Erebos, God of the Dead, etc. etc. etc.
Having said that, if you want to play Marchesa as Pauper Wizard Tribal then go for it. Just my opinion though.
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Sorry for my recent absence, been quite busy. I'll go ahead and respond to posts in order.
I run enough sources of haste that Feldon of the Third Path would almost always get at least 1 activation. With Flamekin Village (which is immediately getting a slot) that chance will be even higher. Just the idea of cloning a Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed to return the original or something else to my hand seems exciting. And that's just 1 creature in the deck.
As far as budget options go for Imperial Recruiter, honestly you can run any of the black tutors, although they are less effective. Recruiter being a creature, works with the deck greatly, but other tutors will work ok. Corpse Dance looks like it could be a very good spell in the deck as well. If you test it let us know how you like it.
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden was in my original build and I didn't care for him all that much. Since the build has changed drastically he might be worth a revisit. Goblin Flectomancer is absolutely a card I want to test, it seems like it has a ton of potential.
No desire to run or get a mana crypt for the deck, producing colored mana is very important in the deck, and the life loss you have no control over. I've watched a guy get hit for 3 five turns in a row with it, and when we are swinging out every turn, that's not the position you want to be in.
Dualcaster Mage is absolutely insane and it going in the deck as soon as I get one. With a sac outlet and Living Death on the stack, he creates an infinite loop of etb's for everything in your grave and field. Recruiter also grabs him, and he's a wizard. Auto include.
Flesh Carver seems like it could be great, its a wizard, recruiter target, sac outlet, gets counters, has evasion, and leaves a body on death. Definitely has a bit of everything the deck wants, just not sure what I would cut for it.
Reef Worm is absolutely hilarious. Would I run it? Probably not. No immediate impact, exile/tuck/bounce effects are common, and at the end of the day, honestly a vanilla 9/9 is the best case scenario. It's a great fun card, but it doesn't have any utility that I'd honestly want in the deck. I would put this in as a fun budget finisher.
Voidmage Prodigy is a great card for the deck, if I ran more wizards, it would be a shoo in.
Apprentice Necromancer is a card I've been meaning to test but just haven't gotten around to ordering one. It seems incredibly strong for the deck, just need to get one. Has good synergy with Feldon.
Ancient Tomb falls under the same reasoning as Mana Crypt, we don't need a bunch of colorless mana, and we don't need to absolutely bleed ourselves dry of life. Just taking hits and fetching has been more than enough in almost every single game I've played.
Necropotence is a bit hard to cast with the way I play, so this is a personal preference thing. I fetch almost all my red sources because I invest heavily into Sneak Attack as my primary game plan. It's not uncommon for me to have 2 blue/black sources and 5-6 red sources. If there were a reasonably easy way to tutor Urborg with a creature in grixis I would probably run it.
Volrath's Stronghold is a great card, but most times I want my grave just stacked for an eventual Living Death. That being said, most of the dudes in the deck are great utility, but completely expendable, so I don't think its really needed. Not a bad card for the deck by any means, I just usually have enough things to do already with my mana every turn, and it's gotten to the point where the deck is fluid enough to not even get to incredibly late game to win (where this land would shine most).
Evil Twin is honestly really bad compared to Clever Impersonator. Impersonator is absolutely amazing, and honestly the clone spot it has I don't think will be ver filled with anything better. It is literally the best thing on the battlefield. ALWAYS.
Alchemist's Apprentice is way too weak of a creature for the deck. Our focus needs to be getting to 4 mana for Marchesa and pumping out as many value creatures as we can to start pulling ahead. Baleful Strix does this guy's job way better as well.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I'll be testing out Corpse Dance soon, and am thinking of putting in Ashnod, s Altar to go with it. Also Rune for the two auto includes you wrote about what are you thinking of cutting?
Opinions on the idea of Alchemist's Apprentice]? Its been a decent cantrip at worst and a Phyrexian Arena at best. Its as good as seeing Pain Seer in opening hand and can sac himself before combat damage if your trying to keep the throne somewhere on the table. My deck plays a lot more casually, but I figured it was worth mentioning.
I think there's so many cards vying for inclusion in Marchesa lists that this one is nowhere close to making the cut. If it cost just U, then maybe, but it is such a low impact card that I would not run this when you have access to Mulldrifter, River Kelpie, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Erebos, God of the Dead, etc. etc. etc.
Having said that, if you want to play Marchesa as Pauper Wizard Tribal then go for it. Just my opinion though.
Ya as I said mine is played more casually as a deck I can use to play against my friends who have made new decks or are relatively new. It's by no means a pauper deck, but I never see a bad deck played in my meta. I was just curious on opinions. So to restate, if you were to defang yourself slightly, how do you feel about it? I just want some draw outlets that aren't insane as Necropotence. It also works well with Dictate of Erebos effects.
Opinions on the idea of Alchemist's Apprentice]? Its been a decent cantrip at worst and a Phyrexian Arena at best. Its as good as seeing Pain Seer in opening hand and can sac himself before combat damage if your trying to keep the throne somewhere on the table. My deck plays a lot more casually, but I figured it was worth mentioning.
I think there's so many cards vying for inclusion in Marchesa lists that this one is nowhere close to making the cut. If it cost just U, then maybe, but it is such a low impact card that I would not run this when you have access to Mulldrifter, River Kelpie, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Erebos, God of the Dead, etc. etc. etc.
Having said that, if you want to play Marchesa as Pauper Wizard Tribal then go for it. Just my opinion though.
Ya as I said mine is played more casually as a deck I can use to play against my friends who have made new decks or are relatively new. It's by no means a pauper deck, but I never see a bad deck played in my meta. I was just curious on opinions. So to restate, if you were to defang yourself slightly, how do you feel about it? I just want some draw outlets that aren't insane as Necropotence. It also works well with Dictate of Erebos effects.
I still feel that it is a bad card. Play Impaler Shrike if you want a budget draw option. I'm just a stranger on the Internet though, so I encourage you to test it in your deck for yourself. I think you'll find that it's not worth two mana or a slot in your deck, that's all I'm saying.
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What do you think of Glen Elendra Archmage? As a 4-drop Wizard with 2 power it seems to fit in perfectly with your deck. With any source of +1/+1 counters (Sage of Fables comes to mind) the ability becomes "U: Counter target noncreature spell" which is pretty insane in my opinion.
What do you think of Glen Elendra Archmage? As a 4-drop Wizard with 2 power it seems to fit in perfectly with your deck. With any source of +1/+1 counters (Sage of Fables comes to mind) the ability becomes "U: Counter target noncreature spell" which is pretty insane in my opinion.
Perfect for 1v1, political for multiplayer. I didn't pick my copy yet.
Almost got this whole deck together, only about a week until its finished. Also ordered some more wizards to try as a package. Hey Rune do you need to update your list on the front page? I think the changelog is outdated lol.
I havent updated the list on the front page because i've been out of town and havent gotten to playtest my changes yet. When i get home i will make changes to the list on the front for sure.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Ok sounds good. Also how come you don't have the fetches that go with the deck colors. Noticed there isn't Bloodstained Mire, Polluted Delta, and Scalding Tarn.
Thoughts about Char and Psionic Blast? Interesting removal for creature and planeswalkers, can contribute to lower our life, can target us if really needed, and helps finish off some player or a big creature. I was looking for options to fight Animar, due most of removals being B.
Those seem really good for you then. Also does anyone here run a wizard sub theme in their deck? Been thinking of trying out a package but don't know what to take out.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Hey Rune. Wondering what you would think of a Marchesa combo deck? I was wondering about the best direction to take this. The obvious choice is Phyrexian Altar + Living Death combo, which you run. Since you don't go into detail in your primer, I'll explain the combo here - with six creatures in play, one of which is Archaeomancer, and a Phyrexian Altar. Sacrifice all the creatures to Altar, and cast Living Death, returning/looping them all. Archeaomancer will return the Death, and you can repeat this for infinite mana. You also get infinite ETB effects off this for things like Mulldrifter or Rune-Scarred Demon.
I can also take it in a Time Sieve / Trinkets direction. What is the best combo to put into a Marchesa shell?
You should also play Necropotence. It fixes your life total to be lower when you need it.
Quick question. How does the Marton combo work? Not sure how to get him so big with just him and Sakashima.
With Sakashima cloning Marton, if they both swing, your attacking creatures get +2/+2 for each attacking creature, while Sakashima/Marton both get +1/+1 for each. With even 5 dudes on board including the two, thats an additional 38 power in boosts (4 for sakashima, 4 for marton, 10 for each of the other 3). It adds up really fast, and he almost always leads to me killing at least a person.
Hey Rune. Wondering what you would think of a Marchesa combo deck? I was wondering about the best direction to take this. The obvious choice is Phyrexian Altar + Living Death combo, which you run. Since you don't go into detail in your primer, I'll explain the combo here - with six creatures in play, one of which is Archaeomancer, and a Phyrexian Altar. Sacrifice all the creatures to Altar, and cast Living Death, returning/looping them all. Archeaomancer will return the Death, and you can repeat this for infinite mana. You also get infinite ETB effects off this for things like Mulldrifter or Rune-Scarred Demon.
I can also take it in a Time Sieve / Trinkets direction. What is the best combo to put into a Marchesa shell?
You should also play Necropotence. It fixes your life total to be lower when you need it.
Thanks for explaining the combo! It does get way easier than that even. With dualcaster mage, a sac outlet, and a living death, you can combo super hard.
Works like this: Cast living death. Flash in Dualcaster Mage copying it. Sac mage to your outlet. Copy resolves returning mage, which you can recopy the original living death, since it is still on the stack.
Living death combo is quite fun, but also Necrotic Ooze combo is very easy to pull off and win out of nowhere. Here's from my original post:
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born Can get threateningly big, removal when it attacks, and combo piece. The combo I run in the deck is with this guy in the graveyard along with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, and Sage of Hours, with a Necrotic Ooze on the battlefield. The way it works is ooze can make infinite tokens of itself with Kiki's ability, because the tokens have haste and will have the abilities as well. If someone responds to the ability, you can sac any creature but the original ooze to put a counter on it and untap it, thus starting a new chain. After you have infinite tokens you can swing for the win, or all of them to put infinite counters on 1 ooze. If they try to remove your infinite power/toughness ooze you use Sage's ability to take infinite turns. When played carefully this will always win you the game.
Ooze if incredibly easy to set up, and if you wanted to combo this way you can run Buried Alive to grab the combo pieces.
I don't run Necropotence because of the triple black mana cost (I fetch red heavy for Sneak Attack), and I don't see the cards immediately. I honestly don't think its a great inclusion when it comes to my play style for this deck, but it is a crazy good card. If you run a combo list you should be running it.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Thoughts on the new Domineering Will?
With so many sac outlets, a commander that loves to steal/sac/recur creatures this seems like a great fit.
Card breaks in half with a haste enabler.
I swapped out Thalakos Deceiver for this and seems busted enough for my mean Marchesa
Thanks for the rundown, Rune. I hadn't considered DCM's combo potential in black; I've been seeing him more explored along the lines of yada yada Deadeye Navigator or Heat Shimmer. Thanks for alerting me to the possibility.
I run both Living Death and an Ooze combo in Jarad (though that combo only needs two cards in the graveyard so it's super tutorable with Buried Alive and any reanimate spell. Check out the link in my signature for farther explanation.), and I'm trying to move away from that, so perhaps Marchesa combo isn't for me. I can still do some Time Walk shenanigans but ultimately the deck probably wants to play LD combo too. Thanks for the rundown.
I finally bagged a foil Marchesa, so I think I'll build this in the future a la Mass-LandD/creature-based combos and uttility (involving sac effects, ETB effects and +1/+1 counters hehe).
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Wondering why you aren't running Necropotence or Volrath's stronghold. They both seem real good, especially necro
Would Evil twin be a better clone than Sakashmia/Impersonator?
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I run Necropotence in my build and I can confirm it's very good. It's especially nice as a Devotion enabler for Gary and Erebos. The only downside is it makes Chasm Skulker a lot worse.
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I think there's so many cards vying for inclusion in Marchesa lists that this one is nowhere close to making the cut. If it cost just U, then maybe, but it is such a low impact card that I would not run this when you have access to Mulldrifter, River Kelpie, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Erebos, God of the Dead, etc. etc. etc.
Having said that, if you want to play Marchesa as Pauper Wizard Tribal then go for it. Just my opinion though.
I run enough sources of haste that Feldon of the Third Path would almost always get at least 1 activation. With Flamekin Village (which is immediately getting a slot) that chance will be even higher. Just the idea of cloning a Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed to return the original or something else to my hand seems exciting. And that's just 1 creature in the deck.
As far as budget options go for Imperial Recruiter, honestly you can run any of the black tutors, although they are less effective. Recruiter being a creature, works with the deck greatly, but other tutors will work ok. Corpse Dance looks like it could be a very good spell in the deck as well. If you test it let us know how you like it.
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden was in my original build and I didn't care for him all that much. Since the build has changed drastically he might be worth a revisit. Goblin Flectomancer is absolutely a card I want to test, it seems like it has a ton of potential.
No desire to run or get a mana crypt for the deck, producing colored mana is very important in the deck, and the life loss you have no control over. I've watched a guy get hit for 3 five turns in a row with it, and when we are swinging out every turn, that's not the position you want to be in.
Dualcaster Mage is absolutely insane and it going in the deck as soon as I get one. With a sac outlet and Living Death on the stack, he creates an infinite loop of etb's for everything in your grave and field. Recruiter also grabs him, and he's a wizard. Auto include.
Flesh Carver seems like it could be great, its a wizard, recruiter target, sac outlet, gets counters, has evasion, and leaves a body on death. Definitely has a bit of everything the deck wants, just not sure what I would cut for it.
Reef Worm is absolutely hilarious. Would I run it? Probably not. No immediate impact, exile/tuck/bounce effects are common, and at the end of the day, honestly a vanilla 9/9 is the best case scenario. It's a great fun card, but it doesn't have any utility that I'd honestly want in the deck. I would put this in as a fun budget finisher.
Voidmage Prodigy is a great card for the deck, if I ran more wizards, it would be a shoo in.
Apprentice Necromancer is a card I've been meaning to test but just haven't gotten around to ordering one. It seems incredibly strong for the deck, just need to get one. Has good synergy with Feldon.
Ancient Tomb falls under the same reasoning as Mana Crypt, we don't need a bunch of colorless mana, and we don't need to absolutely bleed ourselves dry of life. Just taking hits and fetching has been more than enough in almost every single game I've played.
Necropotence is a bit hard to cast with the way I play, so this is a personal preference thing. I fetch almost all my red sources because I invest heavily into Sneak Attack as my primary game plan. It's not uncommon for me to have 2 blue/black sources and 5-6 red sources. If there were a reasonably easy way to tutor Urborg with a creature in grixis I would probably run it.
Volrath's Stronghold is a great card, but most times I want my grave just stacked for an eventual Living Death. That being said, most of the dudes in the deck are great utility, but completely expendable, so I don't think its really needed. Not a bad card for the deck by any means, I just usually have enough things to do already with my mana every turn, and it's gotten to the point where the deck is fluid enough to not even get to incredibly late game to win (where this land would shine most).
Evil Twin is honestly really bad compared to Clever Impersonator. Impersonator is absolutely amazing, and honestly the clone spot it has I don't think will be ver filled with anything better. It is literally the best thing on the battlefield. ALWAYS.
Alchemist's Apprentice is way too weak of a creature for the deck. Our focus needs to be getting to 4 mana for Marchesa and pumping out as many value creatures as we can to start pulling ahead. Baleful Strix does this guy's job way better as well.
Hope that wasn't too long winded for you guys.
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UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Ya as I said mine is played more casually as a deck I can use to play against my friends who have made new decks or are relatively new. It's by no means a pauper deck, but I never see a bad deck played in my meta. I was just curious on opinions. So to restate, if you were to defang yourself slightly, how do you feel about it? I just want some draw outlets that aren't insane as Necropotence. It also works well with Dictate of Erebos effects.
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I still feel that it is a bad card. Play Impaler Shrike if you want a budget draw option. I'm just a stranger on the Internet though, so I encourage you to test it in your deck for yourself. I think you'll find that it's not worth two mana or a slot in your deck, that's all I'm saying.
Perfect for 1v1, political for multiplayer. I didn't pick my copy yet.
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardDraft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardURXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Best option for Animar is definitely stealing him, he helps fuel our deck with our high creature base.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I can also take it in a Time Sieve / Trinkets direction. What is the best combo to put into a Marchesa shell?
You should also play Necropotence. It fixes your life total to be lower when you need it.
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URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
With Sakashima cloning Marton, if they both swing, your attacking creatures get +2/+2 for each attacking creature, while Sakashima/Marton both get +1/+1 for each. With even 5 dudes on board including the two, thats an additional 38 power in boosts (4 for sakashima, 4 for marton, 10 for each of the other 3). It adds up really fast, and he almost always leads to me killing at least a person.
Thanks for explaining the combo! It does get way easier than that even. With dualcaster mage, a sac outlet, and a living death, you can combo super hard.
Works like this: Cast living death. Flash in Dualcaster Mage copying it. Sac mage to your outlet. Copy resolves returning mage, which you can recopy the original living death, since it is still on the stack.
Living death combo is quite fun, but also Necrotic Ooze combo is very easy to pull off and win out of nowhere. Here's from my original post:
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born Can get threateningly big, removal when it attacks, and combo piece. The combo I run in the deck is with this guy in the graveyard along with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, and Sage of Hours, with a Necrotic Ooze on the battlefield. The way it works is ooze can make infinite tokens of itself with Kiki's ability, because the tokens have haste and will have the abilities as well. If someone responds to the ability, you can sac any creature but the original ooze to put a counter on it and untap it, thus starting a new chain. After you have infinite tokens you can swing for the win, or all of them to put infinite counters on 1 ooze. If they try to remove your infinite power/toughness ooze you use Sage's ability to take infinite turns. When played carefully this will always win you the game.
Ooze if incredibly easy to set up, and if you wanted to combo this way you can run Buried Alive to grab the combo pieces.
I don't run Necropotence because of the triple black mana cost (I fetch red heavy for Sneak Attack), and I don't see the cards immediately. I honestly don't think its a great inclusion when it comes to my play style for this deck, but it is a crazy good card. If you run a combo list you should be running it.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
With so many sac outlets, a commander that loves to steal/sac/recur creatures this seems like a great fit.
Card breaks in half with a haste enabler.
I swapped out Thalakos Deceiver for this and seems busted enough for my mean Marchesa
I run both Living Death and an Ooze combo in Jarad (though that combo only needs two cards in the graveyard so it's super tutorable with Buried Alive and any reanimate spell. Check out the link in my signature for farther explanation.), and I'm trying to move away from that, so perhaps Marchesa combo isn't for me. I can still do some Time Walk shenanigans but ultimately the deck probably wants to play LD combo too. Thanks for the rundown.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
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