Played with riptide before, it's definitely a powerful effect and you can tune your deck to have unique creature type and make it a tool box. However, it is so mana intensive. 9 mana is better spent else where
I have a whole bunch of Riptide Shapeshifters in my old box lol. Used to love those things. I had a deck based entirely around him way back in the day.
I definitely think he's better than Fleshwrither after seeing the list of creatures he can tutor up. Plus being able to do that at instant speed is obviously huge. That being said, I cut Fleshwrither a long time ago because I found him way too conditional in his uses. So many of the things I want to find are not 4 mana and sorcery speed hurts a ton. So I'd have to cut something else for the shapeshifter and I'm not sure what is worth it. He is pretty mana intensive after all. I'll have to think about it.
So I put Panharmonicon into my marchesa deck to test it out and see if it would actually help the gameplan or just be a dead card on board. I had played two games and got it both times and both times I was not disappointed to see it. So the first game I had gotten fulminator mage and marchesa out by t4 so I was destroying their lands every turn rotation, t5 I played panharmonicon, t6 I played phyrexian metamorph on the harmonicon so I had triple etbs, t7 I played gray merchant of asphodel with devotion 5 everyone lost 15 life and I was supposed to gain 45 but two of the three opponents scooped to possibly give the ezuri elfball deck a chance to still kill me, on the enemies turn he kills my metamorph, so t8 I went and played sakashima on gary with devotion 7 so he lost 14 and I gained 14 and I bounce sakashima to hand to copy gary next turn and my opponent then scooped.
The next game wasn't as interesting but I got the harmonicon out at around t6 and it got me a net of like 5 cards from mulldrifter and sidisi then it got blown up.
I'm probably gonna do more testing with this card but so far it seems good I mean it turns a baleful strix into a mulldrifter with deathtouch and it also copies river kelpies draw and flayer's burn.
About Panharmonicon: I thought it would surely be great in this deck and then I looked through it and realized only 17 cards in my deck synergize with it. I am not sure if that is enough for me. But I also didn't get around to update my deck with new cards or even playtest any. So maybe Panharmonicon gets more useful in the future.
during my research i found Doomed Necromancer isn't that just a great card in this deck? With so many ETB triggers and the creature toolbox approach it seems like a perfect piece of glue.
The biggest problem with Doomed Necromancer is, that it needs to tap to reanimate something. This means that you have to choose between attacking and getting a +1/+1 counter on him or reanimating something. Having him attack for the counter and reanimate the next turn is incredibly slow. This is the reason that almost no creatures with tap-abilities make it into the deck.
So, I decided to build an artifact variant of this deck. I don't expect it to be too powerful, but having a lot of reach + recursion + ability to loop Combustible Gearhulk can't be THAT bad of an idea...
I have it currently labeled as a casual build (by my standards anyway) but I'll tell ya how it goes.
EDIT: Okay, in trying to build it and goldfish I realized that Arcbound Ravager and Steel Overseer are INSANELY good payoffs for being in artifacts, the former is almost like a 2 mana Mikaeus, the Unhallowed that comes with its own sac outlet. If I added in Time Sieve, I can imagine going infinite with it pretty easily..
The main disadvantage is that a lot of the artifact payoffs have a higher CMC, so for competitive purposes the only real upside is in having easier recursion and slightly crazier enablers.
I gave this deck some more spins (like 8 games). Things I want you to know/discuss:
1. this deck is awesome to play, and pretty good, too. I won 2 more pods (out of 3, 75%ish meta)
2. chaining xiahou dun, the one-eyed and living death is awesome
3. grenzo, havoc raiser is a beast in this deck
4. I'll cut Feldon of the Third path for saheeli rai, if i see this right, they both do the same thing here and saheeli's versatility and "haste" is basically an upgrade.
5. Ashling the Pilgrim is another 2 drop I'd like to test, this deck is (due to its transmute and transfigure toolbox) stacked at the 4 cmc spot. my basic idea is to remove some of these clunky 4 drops, exchange them for 2 drops (tuktuk scrapper --> torch fiend for example) and make the deck faster and more interactive early on. if that suceeds, the clunky 4 drop tutors can be swapped for demonic tutor and vampiric tutor
6. the deck needs more ways to interact with opponents at instant speed, I opted for arcane denial and hero's downfall
Feldon copies from the graveyard rather than the field, and his token is sacrificed rather than exiled, so it triggers "dies" effects. He does not do the same things as Saheeli, although she may be interesting to try out.
Saheeli is much worse then feldon in the deck. We should be swinging out, meaning she will immediately die after one activation more often then not. Feldon can lead to small incremental advantages, to complete blowouts, or just swinging away. With enough haste enablers he should be live more often then not right when you play him.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Feldon can also activate on opponent's turn. Not relevant to plan A but I've been in enough scenarios where I was using a GY toolbox against control, and a handful of times being able to threaten a huge blocker and waiting to see if I can grab a beneficial etb. It doesn't come up much, but I've seen it enough to at least mention.
I've never used feldon or saheeli in the deck so is it really worth it to include either of them? I mean there was just the argument of feldon over saheeli, but I have never felt that my graveyard ever has great stuff in it and that my graveyard doesn't stay around for very long in a game to where as I think feldon would be of much use. The problem with feldon is for our deck the problem of one tapping for his ability, and paying mana for his ability which we have said multiple times is a major reason why we don't include some cards in this deck. So is feldon really that much better than saheeli I mean I think the fact that she is a planeswalker adds to the fact that if she doesn't get hit in 3 turns then she can get 2 minus abilities and a plus ability before feldon would be able to activate with a counter on him.
Yea i saw that, been thinking about it, I am curious but not sold. I don't see many counters on my board before someone board wipes or picks off my creatures. It's probably worth testing at least.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Yea i saw that, been thinking about it, I am curious but not sold. I don't see many counters on my board before someone board wipes or picks off my creatures. It's probably worth testing at least.
I know what you mean, I felt the same. But "double" is a lot and we frequently encounter situations with guys "looping" from yard to battlefield and back. Even just him and a carrion feeder could get real threatening real fast. Or Chasm Skulker.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Artisans scares the crap out of me. I agree we play it cause its awesome but i also know other people will play it. I definitely do not want to see that thing on the other side of the table.
Idk about ludevic. I really dont like giving opponents cards. Also i am incredibly annoyed that when WOTC finally decided to print ludevic they made him super underwhelming grouphuggish commander that doesnt do any necromancy at all. I think i might have to boycott him on principle.
The artisans will probably make it into my artifact build where it is still very easy to sac the tokens for value.
I mean its great to sac the tokens but this thing is basically an asymmetric torpor orb on a stick. Sure you can have your etb player but i get one too
[edit] also in case it wasnt obvious if you send artisans to the yard and bring them back (aka marchesa's whole thing) you get to keep the token thats out there for good
The artisans will probably make it into my artifact build where it is still very easy to sac the tokens for value.
I mean its great to sac the tokens but this thing is basically an asymmetric torpor orb on a stick. Sure you can have your etb player but i get one too
[edit] also in case it wasnt obvious if you send artisans to the yard and bring them back (aka marchesa's whole thing) you get to keep the token thats out there for good
Oh... oh dear lord...
I think I'm more and more sold on the idea of contextually and repeatedly cloning my opponent's things for 0 mana other than the initial investment.
Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist is like Edric, Spymaster of Trest except that he only draws one card. But if a player wants to hurt you they can still do so and also draw a card if they hit an opponent with at least one creature, Edric gives people a good reason to go all in on another player. People usually don't want to hit us, because that lets us dethrone someone and Ludevic could reinforce the decision to attack another playere, not sure...?
I guess Ludevic will make people attack more often with a single guy, rather than keep that one for blocking or makes them rather attack someone other than us if the are unsure. But I am not sure If I want to play him? As Central Command said, he let's opponents draw cards. He is a bit better than Howling Mine but how often do I put that card into my decks?
Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist is like Edric, Spymaster of Trest except that he only draws one card. But if a player wants to hurt you they can still do so and also draw a card if they hit an opponent with at least one creature, Edric gives people a good reason to go all in on another player. People usually don't want to hit us, because that lets us dethrone someone and Ludevic could reinforce the decision to attack another playere, not sure...?
I guess Ludevic will make people attack more often with a single guy, rather than keep that one for blocking or makes them rather attack someone other than us if the are unsure. But I am not sure If I want to play him? As Central Command said, he let's opponents draw cards. He is a bit better than Howling Mine but how often do I put that card into my decks?
Honestly, I doubt opponents will attack more at all. They just need to hurt someone other than us. That includes themselves. So if they have a painland, city of brass, phyrexian arena, vamp tutor, or any of a bazillion things people regularly play in edh that cost them life for an effect they simply get extra value out of that when Ludevic is in play.
The only person who has to attack and hit someone to get their card is us. Unless we happen to have some noncombat way of hurting opponents.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Just be careful. Just like original Yawgmoth's Will, any creature deaths on your side will be put into exile instead.
True. But Yawgmoth's will is still arguably the most broken, OP thing you can put in your deck in this entire format. I've resisted the urge so far simply because its basically just goodstuff, doesn't really fit with marchesa at all. But now that its on a stick (a wizard too!) I think we've at least gotta test it. I mean the power level of yawg's will is simply insane. It still boggles my mind that Prophet of Kruphix got the boot but yawg's will remains legal.
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I definitely think he's better than Fleshwrither after seeing the list of creatures he can tutor up. Plus being able to do that at instant speed is obviously huge. That being said, I cut Fleshwrither a long time ago because I found him way too conditional in his uses. So many of the things I want to find are not 4 mana and sorcery speed hurts a ton. So I'd have to cut something else for the shapeshifter and I'm not sure what is worth it. He is pretty mana intensive after all. I'll have to think about it.
The next game wasn't as interesting but I got the harmonicon out at around t6 and it got me a net of like 5 cards from mulldrifter and sidisi then it got blown up.
I'm probably gonna do more testing with this card but so far it seems good I mean it turns a baleful strix into a mulldrifter with deathtouch and it also copies river kelpies draw and flayer's burn.
The biggest problem with Doomed Necromancer is, that it needs to tap to reanimate something. This means that you have to choose between attacking and getting a +1/+1 counter on him or reanimating something. Having him attack for the counter and reanimate the next turn is incredibly slow. This is the reason that almost no creatures with tap-abilities make it into the deck.
I have it currently labeled as a casual build (by my standards anyway) but I'll tell ya how it goes.
EDIT: Okay, in trying to build it and goldfish I realized that Arcbound Ravager and Steel Overseer are INSANELY good payoffs for being in artifacts, the former is almost like a 2 mana Mikaeus, the Unhallowed that comes with its own sac outlet. If I added in Time Sieve, I can imagine going infinite with it pretty easily..
The main disadvantage is that a lot of the artifact payoffs have a higher CMC, so for competitive purposes the only real upside is in having easier recursion and slightly crazier enablers.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Feldon copies from the graveyard rather than the field, and his token is sacrificed rather than exiled, so it triggers "dies" effects. He does not do the same things as Saheeli, although she may be interesting to try out.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
[EDIT] Until auto-carding works, image below
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I know what you mean, I felt the same. But "double" is a lot and we frequently encounter situations with guys "looping" from yard to battlefield and back. Even just him and a carrion feeder could get real threatening real fast. Or Chasm Skulker.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Artisans scares the crap out of me. I agree we play it cause its awesome but i also know other people will play it. I definitely do not want to see that thing on the other side of the table.
Idk about ludevic. I really dont like giving opponents cards. Also i am incredibly annoyed that when WOTC finally decided to print ludevic they made him super underwhelming grouphuggish commander that doesnt do any necromancy at all. I think i might have to boycott him on principle.
I mean its great to sac the tokens but this thing is basically an asymmetric torpor orb on a stick. Sure you can have your etb player but i get one too
[edit] also in case it wasnt obvious if you send artisans to the yard and bring them back (aka marchesa's whole thing) you get to keep the token thats out there for good
Oh... oh dear lord...
I think I'm more and more sold on the idea of contextually and repeatedly cloning my opponent's things for 0 mana other than the initial investment.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I guess Ludevic will make people attack more often with a single guy, rather than keep that one for blocking or makes them rather attack someone other than us if the are unsure. But I am not sure If I want to play him? As Central Command said, he let's opponents draw cards. He is a bit better than Howling Mine but how often do I put that card into my decks?
Honestly, I doubt opponents will attack more at all. They just need to hurt someone other than us. That includes themselves. So if they have a painland, city of brass, phyrexian arena, vamp tutor, or any of a bazillion things people regularly play in edh that cost them life for an effect they simply get extra value out of that when Ludevic is in play.
The only person who has to attack and hit someone to get their card is us. Unless we happen to have some noncombat way of hurting opponents.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Just be careful. Just like original Yawgmoth's Will, any creature deaths on your side will be put into exile instead.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
True. But Yawgmoth's will is still arguably the most broken, OP thing you can put in your deck in this entire format. I've resisted the urge so far simply because its basically just goodstuff, doesn't really fit with marchesa at all. But now that its on a stick (a wizard too!) I think we've at least gotta test it. I mean the power level of yawg's will is simply insane. It still boggles my mind that Prophet of Kruphix got the boot but yawg's will remains legal.