So far, the 2 rare monarch cards that we can play here are looking pretty good. Keeper of Keys could be another win-condition for us, while Custodi Lich is straight value and encourages others to attack us (we want this).
Actually I haven't seen anything good enough for the deck, but we still have many spoilers to go. That said, my other decks are getting updates, which is great.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
So far, the 2 rare monarch cards that we can play here are looking pretty good. Keeper of Keys could be another win-condition for us, while Custodi Lich is straight value and encourages others to attack us (we want this).
So far, pretty good set for us.
I'm not a big fan of new marchesa. I get why you like her @Fear because I agree with your assessment in 1v1. Strong body, haste, deathtouch, cantrips that turn and leaves opponents with a damned if you do, damned if you don't choice. However in multiplayer I disagree. Her power level is nowhere near old marchesa. Deathtouch tokens are annoying but you get 1 a turn if she manages to last until your following upkeep. That's not a given at all and honestly not particularly threatening in multiplayer commander. If she pops out I am going at the monarch every time because I want the throne and the card that comes with it, marchesa can do whatever she wants with her tokens until the next wrath comes (like 1 turn later, maybe).
I am a fan of those monarch cards though. Custodi is a straight up damned if you do, damned if you don't choice. Steal the monarch if you want but then I get to punish you again when I steal it right back. And keeper of the keys might as well just say "my creatures are unblockable". We can sac him during the final opponents turn to regain monarch right before our turn starts. And even if we can't do that just having monarch out there means that all our attacks can now net us a card. We are constantly attacking no matter what, as long as we hit the monarch we get a card.
They're pricey at 5 mana but they both come with 4 power so that's not too shabby. And monarch is the kind of card draw we can get on board with - combat damage gets you cards. I strongly disapprove of giving cards to our opponents which is definitely going to happen during this. But as long as we get more its ok. And I think we'll get more personally.
In other news, I have been testing Prized Amalgam and it has worked out so far. Easy sac fodder, gives less reliance on Marchesa, and it lets you get an extra 3-4 damage combat step. Also, it lets you discard him basically for free. I like him alot, and testing him makes me want to play Bloodghast and Gravecrawler.
I'm building new marchesa as a combination of group slug and stax, where I think she will shine. I dislike everything shone thus far for this deck though. Monarch does not play well with grixis marchesa. We need to be swinging at the highest life total pretty consistently, and with monarch floating around, it will divert some of our aggression elsewhere, which will lower our efficiency. Not only that, the deck has no problem losing life, so being the monarch on a regular basis will make folks pound on us more then usual when some opponents would usually be a bit more reserved to bunkering. I'm not saying monarch is a bad mechanic by any means, it just doesn't quite line up with the deck very well. Now if we get a cheap creature that lets us become the monarch, maybe we could slot it just for that, since we can easily swing and recur it.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
So far, the 2 rare monarch cards that we can play here are looking pretty good. Keeper of Keys could be another win-condition for us, while Custodi Lich is straight value and encourages others to attack us (we want this).
So far, pretty good set for us.
Keeper of Keys is definitely worth a consideration just because it's effect is sooo strong, but Custodi Lich isn't that great imho. The thing is that a "you become the monarch" effect doesn't do anything if you are already the monarch and so abilities triggering of the event of you becoming the monarch don't do anything. And like Rune said we really want to attack the player with the highest life total, wich may not be the monarch. I think Voldaren Pariah is much better, although I haven't got around to playing that one yet.
But today a really broken red(!) two-drop got spoiled wich will definitley make it into every Marchesa Deck.
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
RR
Legendary Creature - Goblin Rogue
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, choose one-
* Goad target creature that player controls.
* Exile the top card of that player's library. Until end of turn, you may cast that card and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast it.
"You burn. I'll pillage."
Illus. Svetlin Velinov 2/2
Stats are good and both effects are really powerful and helpful to our deck. Only little problem is the RR mana cost wich often won't be availble on turn two.
I think Grenzo, Havoc Raiser could find a spot in here. He can force opponents to either lose their creatures or be forced to attack someone else with them, which helps our gameplan, or he can cast our opponent's cards, including creatures that Marchesa can bring back for us.
Yea new grenzo is bonkers. I'll be looking for a slot for him for sure. If we can start casting dudes from other people's decks we can get ahead very fast.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Yea new grenzo is bonkers. I'll be looking for a slot for him for sure. If we can start casting dudes from other people's decks we can get ahead very fast.
Agreed. I like him, hell be fun. Also dont rule out goad. Will be very nice to force threatening guys to go in a different direction.
I think at 5 rune is probably right, those other guys arent worth it. We simply run too tight a ship in this deck to have room for them. Keep in mind though no one in their right mind is going to let you stay the monarch and draw a free extra card a turn. Monarch is definitely going to move around the table a lot as everyone tries to net their own extra card.
Honestly I was thinking either dack's duplicate, phyrexian metamorph, or clever impersonator would be the cut for stunt double. I like them, but flash is incredible. I love duplicate, and impersonator is a house, so I'm feeling the metamorph is the appropriate cut. I'm open to ideas on what to cut for the new grenzo though.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I still run old Grenzo in my build, so he will probably leave for himself. I also agree that Metamorph is the one to cut for Stunt Double.
As for your build, Solrune, I think Fathom Feeder should be the one to go. It takes a long time for him to perform any sort of card draw, and I think Grenzo is better than it. Either that or Crypt Rats.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I've been putting together essentially this exact list with some changes for cards that I like. My question for Marchesa players is what kind of win / loss ration do you have with the deck?
Edit: Here are some cards I think might be a fit in this deck:
Granted, if they are running one of the OG Eldrazi it won't work...but even then the only card that loses value is Altar of the Brood. The others are still useful in the game.
That. Sounds. Awesome. Also, probably terrible and mana intensive (I just cut Voidmage Prodigy and Olivia Voldaren) for having abilities that cost mana to use.
I have been looking for more early plays with the deck, namely Sage of Epityr (WHY HUMAN?!?). I sure wish we could play like 8 Baleful Strixs...
I am finding that I really don't want the mana rocks and just want more creatures. If I am casting rocks in the early game I typically fall too far behind, and They don't add to the board significantly, they are useless in the graveyard, and I definitely don't like top-decking them. I should just be making sac outlets and creatures in the first 4 turns of the game. Also, casting Marchesa on an empty board is embarrassing. Sooo, yeah, cutting the 3 signets, 2 Talismans, and all the 3 cmc rocks from my list. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt can stay, cuz they really are that good.
I mean, unleashed and attacking with Marchesa in play can equal 25% of their starting life just from him alone. That's not bad by any means. He also has a built in sac outlet and way to get a counter immediately. Meaning he's even easier to recur with her.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Recently I have been doing some testing with cards that i either past over in earlier builds or were recent finds or releases. can confirm the new grenzo, havoc raiser is basically the nut. he essentially saves you from the crack back on stale board states.
recently I added Matter Reshaper for the value so i have been trying to lower the cmc of the deck to make for more aggressive and explosive starts. that said swift warkite has been an absolute beating. sometimes people kill guys before dethrone happens, or you just need it to die rather than be exiled. the warkite has let me recover from these situation much quicker. i has really loved the card so far. its recursion or acceleration. like a mini kaalia for us.
Glad to see the warkite getting some love! I've not gotten to dive in with a non-budget version of Marchesa yet. But I'll have to try the new Grenzo for sure based on what everybody's saying. On paper I'm not sold on Matter Reshaper yet so time will tell...
Gonti, Lord of Luxury seems like he could be a good addition to the deck. He fits Marchesa's theme and his ability lasts even after he's dead, which is excellent in a deck like ours.
I agree about Gonti. Even flavorwise, it totally fits, as an opulent, over indulgent character with unbounded avarice. Also, obligatory "4 cmc, not human, 2 power" creature comment. Also, unfortunately, not a wizard. Also, deathtouch gives us another way to interact with creatures.
Gonti is awesome, seems like he'll be a really solid creature fitting all our tutor criteria, having deathtouch, and a solid card advantage attached to him.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
So far, pretty good set for us.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I'm not a big fan of new marchesa. I get why you like her @Fear because I agree with your assessment in 1v1. Strong body, haste, deathtouch, cantrips that turn and leaves opponents with a damned if you do, damned if you don't choice. However in multiplayer I disagree. Her power level is nowhere near old marchesa. Deathtouch tokens are annoying but you get 1 a turn if she manages to last until your following upkeep. That's not a given at all and honestly not particularly threatening in multiplayer commander. If she pops out I am going at the monarch every time because I want the throne and the card that comes with it, marchesa can do whatever she wants with her tokens until the next wrath comes (like 1 turn later, maybe).
I am a fan of those monarch cards though. Custodi is a straight up damned if you do, damned if you don't choice. Steal the monarch if you want but then I get to punish you again when I steal it right back. And keeper of the keys might as well just say "my creatures are unblockable". We can sac him during the final opponents turn to regain monarch right before our turn starts. And even if we can't do that just having monarch out there means that all our attacks can now net us a card. We are constantly attacking no matter what, as long as we hit the monarch we get a card.
They're pricey at 5 mana but they both come with 4 power so that's not too shabby. And monarch is the kind of card draw we can get on board with - combat damage gets you cards. I strongly disapprove of giving cards to our opponents which is definitely going to happen during this. But as long as we get more its ok. And I think we'll get more personally.
If the Keeper was a non-human wizard I would most definitely play it. God I love playing Sage of Fables and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed...
In other news, I have been testing Prized Amalgam and it has worked out so far. Easy sac fodder, gives less reliance on Marchesa, and it lets you get an extra 3-4 damage combat step. Also, it lets you discard him basically for free. I like him alot, and testing him makes me want to play Bloodghast and Gravecrawler.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Keeper of Keys is definitely worth a consideration just because it's effect is sooo strong, but Custodi Lich isn't that great imho. The thing is that a "you become the monarch" effect doesn't do anything if you are already the monarch and so abilities triggering of the event of you becoming the monarch don't do anything. And like Rune said we really want to attack the player with the highest life total, wich may not be the monarch. I think Voldaren Pariah is much better, although I haven't got around to playing that one yet.
But today a really broken red(!) two-drop got spoiled wich will definitley make it into every Marchesa Deck.
RR
Legendary Creature - Goblin Rogue
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, choose one-
* Goad target creature that player controls.
* Exile the top card of that player's library. Until end of turn, you may cast that card and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast it.
"You burn. I'll pillage."
Illus. Svetlin Velinov 2/2
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/beyond-basics/waiting-grenzo-2016-08-18
Stats are good and both effects are really powerful and helpful to our deck. Only little problem is the RR mana cost wich often won't be availble on turn two.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Agreed. I like him, hell be fun. Also dont rule out goad. Will be very nice to force threatening guys to go in a different direction.
I think at 5 rune is probably right, those other guys arent worth it. We simply run too tight a ship in this deck to have room for them. Keep in mind though no one in their right mind is going to let you stay the monarch and draw a free extra card a turn. Monarch is definitely going to move around the table a lot as everyone tries to net their own extra card.
Well that's definitely finding a spot. What to remove though, wow that's tough.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
As for your build, Solrune, I think Fathom Feeder should be the one to go. It takes a long time for him to perform any sort of card draw, and I think Grenzo is better than it. Either that or Crypt Rats.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Noted. Also, have you decided whether or not to replace Flamekin Village with Hanweir Battlements?
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Edit: Here are some cards I think might be a fit in this deck:
- Hellhole Flailer
- Herald of Torment
- Precursor Golem
- Swift Warkite (might be too cute though)
- Cyclonic Rift
- Makeshift Mannequin
- Helm of Possession
- Equilibrium
And lastly, I'm including a 4 card combo that I simply just enjoy getting to pull off:
Altar of the Brood + Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + Grave Titan / Wurmcoil Engine / Precursor Golem
Granted, if they are running one of the OG Eldrazi it won't work...but even then the only card that loses value is Altar of the Brood. The others are still useful in the game.
RG Xenagos, God of Revels
BG Meren of the Clan Nel Toth
GW Arahbo, Roar of the World
That. Sounds. Awesome. Also, probably terrible and mana intensive (I just cut Voidmage Prodigy and Olivia Voldaren) for having abilities that cost mana to use.
I have been looking for more early plays with the deck, namely Sage of Epityr (WHY HUMAN?!?). I sure wish we could play like 8 Baleful Strixs...
I am finding that I really don't want the mana rocks and just want more creatures. If I am casting rocks in the early game I typically fall too far behind, and They don't add to the board significantly, they are useless in the graveyard, and I definitely don't like top-decking them. I should just be making sac outlets and creatures in the first 4 turns of the game. Also, casting Marchesa on an empty board is embarrassing. Sooo, yeah, cutting the 3 signets, 2 Talismans, and all the 3 cmc rocks from my list. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt can stay, cuz they really are that good.
RG Xenagos, God of Revels
BG Meren of the Clan Nel Toth
GW Arahbo, Roar of the World
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
recently I added Matter Reshaper for the value so i have been trying to lower the cmc of the deck to make for more aggressive and explosive starts. that said swift warkite has been an absolute beating. sometimes people kill guys before dethrone happens, or you just need it to die rather than be exiled. the warkite has let me recover from these situation much quicker. i has really loved the card so far. its recursion or acceleration. like a mini kaalia for us.
RG Xenagos, God of Revels
BG Meren of the Clan Nel Toth
GW Arahbo, Roar of the World
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Xira Arien Lands EDH List
Marchesa Recursion EDH List
Oloro Reanimator EDH List