Hello everyone. I am finally posting a decklist on here for commander. This is a deck that used to be a Sen Triplets deck, and still could be with very minor changes. However, Oloro makes things somewhat easier in most situations than the ever-hated Triplets, who are basically never cast and are only useful as a "bad Teferi" versus a dedicated blue player.
Note that this deck was designed to compete vs an unknown meta so the deck is maximized vs the potential field, with all of its bases covered. If you have a specific meta in mind but like the deck, feel free to propose changes in the comments along with your metagame considerations and I'll chime in if I think you have good ideas.
Here is the decklist. It is very good at winning games, and has an exceptional win percentage - especially for a deck that is basically non-combo, non-Stax:
Oloro does not play a HUGE role in how the deck works, but he's a useful creature to have in play in the early/mid game and thereafter. Before you cast him, you have to ask yourself how much your opponents could hurt you before you get an untap, and how much open mana you need to leave up to deal with that. If you need the open mana, don't cast him; you should essentially never be taking a risk in casting Oloro. OR if the board is starting to pile up and get threatening to the point where you'd have to blow everything away by next turn, same deal - you have to hold off. But when the coast is clear, an extra card/turn is a useful mechanic to say the least.
It's also worth noting that the deck does not abuse high life totals or care about having a high life total. This is not a "life gain matters" deck. HOWEVER the deck is peppered with Black spells that use life to your advantage, and Oloro gives you plenty of extra life to pay those costs. It's uncommon to have a general that can reasonably permit Dark Confidant in the same deck as Blightsteel and Kozilek, but Oloro could make that happen for you if you really want it. (NOTE: I don't run Bob in this deck... but you could and I think it's a defensible choice.)
Also, FWIW I consider this deck competitive. It's not incredibly macro efficient and it's not necessarily a deck that wins early, but it pushes relevant interaction pretty far. The only thing "broken" about the deck is the Rector/Omniscience interaction... which is quite broken, but I would encourage a newbie to the deck not to use it (get Necro instead) so you can learn what it takes to win with the deck overall. If you wanted to push this deck as far as it could go in the competitive direction, though, breaking Rector even more certainly seems like the way to do it.
CHANGE LOG:
7/16/14: -Drowned Catacomb, Glacial Fortress, Mirari, Jace's Ingenuity; +Toxic Deluge, City of Brass, Chromatic Lantern, Timetwister
7/31/14: -Temple of the False God; +Ancient Tomb.. I opened one in a VMA draft, played with it and it's as good as I thought it would be. The -2 life is a free roll in this deck
Cards that I am considering and/or have run in the past:
Forbidden Orchard - I had this card in the "No way!" pile when this deck was Sen Triplets, but Oloro would not care about giving opponents 1/1s very often. The most significant drawback is that I won't want to f8 with the card on Magic Online.
Azorius Chancery - I'm interested in this card due to Bojuka Bog exclusively, since the ability to Crypt multiple times in a game is occasionally relevant. Normally I don't play the karoos without a land I actively want to reset, but Bog certainly is one of those.
Academy Ruins - There is no artifact that is important enough to this deck's game plan to make Ruins worthwhile, with the possible exception of Tormod's Crypt.
Tezzeret the Seeker - I used to run this card and it has always been good. With that said, I am not sure if it is necessary which is why it is not currently in the deck. If I faced more MLD I would definitely run this.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - I don't think this is as good as Blightsteel Colossus at finishing games. IMO it is better to pick the finisher that does a better job at finishing games than the finisher with more value, so Blightsteel is in and Ulamog is not. Having to pass the turn multiple times before killing only one player when this deck is in finishing mode is not a good idea. Also, this deck is somewhat "league friendly" in that it doesn't take infinite turns (unless it wants to) and isn't a combo or stax deck, and having to trigger Annihilator every attack is something I don't necessarily want to do with my main finisher. Also note that Kozilek is more of an engine card here than an actual finisher although Koz can do an OK job at that.
Sorin Markov - It may sound strange, but this is not the type of deck that has an easier time killing an opponent on 10 than one on 40. The political cost of running Sorin outweighs the political benefit of making an attacking opponent's target (not me) easier to kill.
Gilded Drake - It is a removal spell that can accidentally win games with Capsize. There isn't room for it in the deck as currently configured, but it may be better than Condemn depending on the meta.
Toxic Deluge - I like that it is another way to deal with indestructible things and the mana cost is very attractive. Oloro could pay 10 life to drop this, easy. I am not sure if I need it though, or what I would cut. But I am a fan of running it in Oloro.
Catastrophe - I could run this "just in case" I need to nuke a ramp player's lands. But I am not scared of ramp at all and I have other decks that are all about mana screwing people. I don't think that I need this card.
Austere Command and/or Merciless Eviction - These compete with Akroma's Vengeance for said card's slot. I like Vengeance because it deals with pretty much everything all at once, and Eviction's exile isn't as necessary thanks to Terminus. Depending on my meta, though, I might choose differently (most likely Merciless Eviction)
Worst Fears - I suspect that this card is not needed, and competes with the Cabal Conditioning slot (which is a necessary card), but I may try this. The ability to do it multiple times with Archaeomancer and Crystal Shard seems fun.
Dissipate - I like Mindbreak Trap more than this because it is occasionally free, and because it is "Boseiju-proof."
Misdirection - You probably already know whether or not you need this card. If turn four combo is a thing in your meta, then Misdirection is probably a good idea. If it isn't, then you don't need it. It's still a good card, though.
Mortify - I ran this over Ashes to Ashes in Sen Trips because that deck (which is basically this one) couldn't afford the life loss. Now that Oloro is here I will take the 2-for-1 exiling card and be happy about it.
Vendilion Clique - This is a super wonky choice. I have tried it in Sen Trips and I don't like it, but it has some interesting interactions with Riptide Laboratory if you are basically heads-up versus one opponent. If your meta is very, very blue-saturated, then I would consider running this (and Sen Triplets).
Volition Reins - I have played games in which I wanted one more resource for Academy Rector and Volition Reins is the card I have gone to. I think it's worse than O-Ring, though, due to Capsize and Venser.
I'm also not a huge fan of Crypt in slow control builds. Oloro mitigates it slightly but I almost feel Mox Diamond is better since you run Land Tax.
I also really like Future Sight but you may not ant to cut anything for it.
Edit: actually, I would probably cut Desertion over Ingenuity. Or both and run a Future Sight.
I don't think the deck could run 34 lands without running about five more mana artifacts and Tezz. If I wanted to go in the direction of stax/resource denial, this is what I would be doing. But mana screw is one of the few ways this deck can lose. A 3 land hand that bricks on land a bunch of times can lose games. If Rector and/or Omniscience is dealt with, in a 34 land deck my win conditions will be uncastable. This deck is more mana hungry than it looks.
I agree that Mirari is cuttable. It works wonders when it resolves AND survives, but tapping out for it is dicey at best and it rarely survives. I'll think about taking it out.
I also really like Tormod's Crypt because it means I don't have to be committed to getting Bojuka Bog every time with Expedition Map. This deck needs answers for everything and graveyard recursion is definitely high on the list of threats.
I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant Mana Crypt not Tormod's.
Tormod's is a great control card in recursion heavy metas. Probably a for sure include if your meta is like that.
Between your draw spells, land tax, Top, Jace and tutors (in a pinch) you should be able to get away with less lands. I understand your concerns but maybe compromise and drop to 36?
I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant Mana Crypt not Tormod's.
Tormod's is a great control card in recursion heavy metas. Probably a for sure include if your meta is like that.
Between your draw spells, land tax, Top, Jace and tutors (in a pinch) you should be able to get away with less lands. I understand your concerns but maybe compromise and drop to 36?
Mana Crypt is so good, I can't cut it. Especially not in this deck
Since I'm playing this deck on MTGO, I decided to take out that Jace's Ingenuity (which I was thinking about replacing with a Moonlight Bargain - if only to prove that the deck can easily take 10 no problem) with a VMA Timetwister. I've only cast Timetwister in one game but it is certainly awesome. It plays a very different role than Ingenuity, since the earlier you can cast Timetwister, the better, but it's another "draw cards" card so I felt it was the correct change. I was a little on the fence about including it since it gives the opponents a full hand (anathema to such a card advantage-centric deck as this one which can never afford to match card-for-card in the control role versus three opponents and has to get card advantage somehow) but its SUCH a strong card. Timed well, the card does everything for you and then some.
I took out two lands (the M10 duals) for City of Brass and Chromatic Lantern. There have been no issues, there. City and Mana Confluence are perfect cards for this deck since they are effectively enter-the-battlefield-untapped trilands with no drawback. I also took out the Mirari for Toxic Deluge and have been impressed with that card as well.
Another update is that I have resolved Oloro a few times. He's actually pretty good in play but the turn you go to cast him, you have to know how much your opponents can throw at you before you untap and predict (correctly) that there's nothing they could have that significantly disrupts you or changes the board. When the game reaches a lull though and you can afford to cast him without much worry, the extra card is certainly beneficial.
I am also considering replacing Counterspell with Arcane Denial since I am somewhat persuaded that in this deck, Denial's ability to replace itself (while putting one opponent up a card) is better than putting myself (and an opponent) down a card. I'm not yet ready to make that change but I am thinking about it.
Overall, this is my favorite deck in Commander right now since it wins most games, but it also is a very interactive and engaging deck to play since you have to make a lot of decisions and think through "which of their threats do I have to counter" and "how long can I afford to wait to use mass removal" while thinking about their cards in hand and what the opponents could have.
Seeing either is almost a free license to cast your hand because you can just replenish to 7. Wheels with card draw also make it so you can afford to play less land usually.
I've also just reworked my build to one that actually casts Oloro. It's shocking the card advantage he can generate. As long as your build isn't dependent on the life gain I say cast him as often as possible.
I might dump Counterspell for either Remand or Swan Song instead of Denial. Obviously there are situations where Remand isn't as good but often it does the job while replacing itself. Swan Song is limited but I find the stuff it can deal with is often the stuff I want to stop. At the least I'd consider dumping Counterspell for Denial and something else for Swan Song.
Seeing either is almost a free license to cast your hand because you can just replenish to 7. Wheels with card draw also make it so you can afford to play less land usually.
I've also just reworked my build to one that actually casts Oloro. It's shocking the card advantage he can generate. As long as your build isn't dependent on the life gain I say cast him as often as possible.
I might dump Counterspell for either Remand or Swan Song instead of Denial. Obviously there are situations where Remand isn't as good but often it does the job while replacing itself. Swan Song is limited but I find the stuff it can deal with is often the stuff I want to stop. At the least I'd consider dumping Counterspell for Denial and something else for Swan Song.
I wouldn't consider Time Spiral for this deck right now, but it's a great card no question
There's not another counter I am particularly interested in cutting. I'm actually kind of far away from changing the counterspell suite in this deck ... but I mentioned Denial because I have thought about it in passing. Swan Song could protect a hardcast Omniscience and the deck can clearly ignore the token, but that's a corner case IMO. Same deal for Remand - I have that card mentally filed under, "protect your combo the turn you're trying to going off" in multiplayer and this deck doesn't need that.
Oloro is a good creature to have in play. When you want him you basically have to spend all of your mana for that turn, though, so you just have to have a read on your opponents and know how much they could hurt you while you're tapped out. He is definitely an asset to the deck and not one that is likely to get you killed a la Sen Triplets, you just can't cast him when you need open mana for reactive spells or you need to cast a wrath next turn.
The card I am interesting in trying out for this deck as of today is Unexpectedly Absent over the Condemn. Condemn's corner case doesn't come up that often (e.g. vs a Rafiq attacking on turn four with infect or something), and in the not-too-infrequent scenario where I find myself discarding cards at EoT Condemn's number is often up. Unexpectedly Absent looks like a quality disruptive card that tucks pretty well and has broader application than Condemn. So I am going to try it in the near future and let y'all know how it performs.
I played a couple games with my new build tonight and let me just say that Notion Thief + any wheel effect is simply back breaking. In a control shell like yours it shouldn't be hard to piece together and protect.
I played a couple games with my new build tonight and let me just say that Notion Thief + any wheel effect is simply back breaking. In a control shell like yours it shouldn't be hard to piece together and protect.
Just for future consideration.
just becareful with notion thief. I got milled out due to a concecrated sphinx. Theif could be a dead card if only 1 person is getting one or two cards here and there additional cards - as you have to keep mana open rather than play out stuff. I play around this card with dark tutalege and necropotence (put into hand vs draw).
just becareful with notion thief. I got milled out due to a concecrated sphinx. Theif could be a dead card if only 1 person is getting one or two cards here and there additional cards - as you have to keep mana open rather than play out stuff. I play around this card with dark tutalege and necropotence (put into hand vs draw).
I pretty much only play him if I know I can immediately wheel out their hands. It's pretty much impossible to lose after that. Odds are I'll hit a few counters and some kill spells. If one is Forbid...
Notion Thief is a really fun card and I could see playing it in this deck. I could see playing it over Voidmage Husher but Husher is a unique card that is occasionally amazing. It's incredible how people will see it and then forget about it lol. The deal with Thief is that it's really good vs archetypes the deck is already strong against. This is such a controlling control deck that anyone whose plan is to draw cards with a Zegana or something and then take control will likely already find themselves severely outmatched, here.
Casting Thief in response to an opponent's Wheel is so priceless, though. In all I support the card's inclusion but I don't think it's really needed vs an unknown meta so I wouldn't cut anything for it for now.
just becareful with notion thief. I got milled out due to a concecrated sphinx. Theif could be a dead card if only 1 person is getting one or two cards here and there additional cards - as you have to keep mana open rather than play out stuff. I play around this card with dark tutalege and necropotence (put into hand vs draw).
I pretty much only play him if I know I can immediately wheel out their hands. It's pretty much impossible to lose after that. Odds are I'll hit a few counters and some kill spells. If one is Forbid...
Because it's a 3 mana counter that can be easily bought back if you play a ton of card draw. It can lock games down. Honestly I haven't played my most recent build enough to see if it outclasses cheaper counters but in older builds it was a super star at times.
If you play big draw spells like Insight, Rev, Decree of Pain and your win cons take multiple turns to go off I feel like you almost have to play Forbid. The only reason I maybe shouldn't is because I often draw instant win combos off a big draw so a cheaper counter would be more valuable.
Because it's a 3 mana counter that can be easily bought back if you play a ton of card draw. It can lock games down. Honestly I haven't played my most recent build enough to see if it outclasses cheaper counters but in older builds it was a super star at times.
If you play big draw spells like Insight, Rev, Decree of Pain and your win cons take multiple turns to go off I feel like you almost have to play Forbid. The only reason I maybe shouldn't is because I often draw instant win combos off a big draw so a cheaper counter would be more valuable.
Interesting. The way I see it, there is nothing worth countering that's worth incurring card disadvantage over (apart from FoW anti-combo scenarios) in a deck that can just blow everything away anyway. In other words, the way I play this deck, I only have to counter stuff that really matters since everything else can be swept. That's actually a lot of the fun of the deck... Making decisions about what I can and can't let resolve with the idea that if I play correctly I can just sweep the less important stuff.
Another consideration is the fact that Blightsteel only takes one turn per opponent to win. A counter or two is enough... If not more than enough to seal the deal. This is actually the number one case for Blighsteel... It's pretty hard to interact with anyway
Also, my testing of Unexpectedly Absent over Condemn has been unsatisfying so far, but I haven't drawn it enough yet to completely abandon the card. I'm watching out for it, though. I'm considering adding a Council's Judgment, which seems really strong especially if you can somehow predict how to get a split vote with it. Slaughter Pact is another possibility since it pushes the broken Rector/Omniscience interaction
Note that this deck was designed to compete vs an unknown meta so the deck is maximized vs the potential field, with all of its bases covered. If you have a specific meta in mind but like the deck, feel free to propose changes in the comments along with your metagame considerations and I'll chime in if I think you have good ideas.
Here is the decklist. It is very good at winning games, and has an exceptional win percentage - especially for a deck that is basically non-combo, non-Stax:
1 Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Lands:
5 Island
3 Swamp
3 Plains
1 City of Brass
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Mystic Gate
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Strip Mine
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Maze of Ith
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Crypt
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crystal Shard
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Crucible of Worlds
Creatures:
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Archaeomancer
1 Academy Rector
1 Magus of the Disk
1 Voidmage Husher
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Blightsteel Colossus
Planeswalker:
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Enchantments:
1 Land Tax
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Omniscience
Instants:
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Condemn
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Trickbind
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Capsize
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Return to Dust
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Force of Will
1 Desertion
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Grim Tutor
1 Call to Mind
1 Vindicate
1 Timetwister
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Bribery
1 Time Warp
1 Terminus
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Recurring Insight
1 Cabal Conditioning
1 Decree of Pain
Oloro does not play a HUGE role in how the deck works, but he's a useful creature to have in play in the early/mid game and thereafter. Before you cast him, you have to ask yourself how much your opponents could hurt you before you get an untap, and how much open mana you need to leave up to deal with that. If you need the open mana, don't cast him; you should essentially never be taking a risk in casting Oloro. OR if the board is starting to pile up and get threatening to the point where you'd have to blow everything away by next turn, same deal - you have to hold off. But when the coast is clear, an extra card/turn is a useful mechanic to say the least.
It's also worth noting that the deck does not abuse high life totals or care about having a high life total. This is not a "life gain matters" deck. HOWEVER the deck is peppered with Black spells that use life to your advantage, and Oloro gives you plenty of extra life to pay those costs. It's uncommon to have a general that can reasonably permit Dark Confidant in the same deck as Blightsteel and Kozilek, but Oloro could make that happen for you if you really want it. (NOTE: I don't run Bob in this deck... but you could and I think it's a defensible choice.)
Also, FWIW I consider this deck competitive. It's not incredibly macro efficient and it's not necessarily a deck that wins early, but it pushes relevant interaction pretty far. The only thing "broken" about the deck is the Rector/Omniscience interaction... which is quite broken, but I would encourage a newbie to the deck not to use it (get Necro instead) so you can learn what it takes to win with the deck overall. If you wanted to push this deck as far as it could go in the competitive direction, though, breaking Rector even more certainly seems like the way to do it.
CHANGE LOG:
7/16/14: -Drowned Catacomb, Glacial Fortress, Mirari, Jace's Ingenuity; +Toxic Deluge, City of Brass, Chromatic Lantern, Timetwister
7/31/14: -Temple of the False God; +Ancient Tomb.. I opened one in a VMA draft, played with it and it's as good as I thought it would be. The -2 life is a free roll in this deck
Forbidden Orchard - I had this card in the "No way!" pile when this deck was Sen Triplets, but Oloro would not care about giving opponents 1/1s very often. The most significant drawback is that I won't want to f8 with the card on Magic Online.
City of Brass and Mana Confluence - These are virtually free with Oloro as the general, and are probably better than Sunken Ruins and Mystic Gate. I may make this change now that I think about it.
Azorius Chancery - I'm interested in this card due to Bojuka Bog exclusively, since the ability to Crypt multiple times in a game is occasionally relevant. Normally I don't play the karoos without a land I actively want to reset, but Bog certainly is one of those.
Ancient Tomb - See City of Brass. Temple of the False God was supposed to be in this deck and I forgot. Cutting a fetch land for this seems worthwhile.
Academy Ruins - There is no artifact that is important enough to this deck's game plan to make Ruins worthwhile, with the possible exception of Tormod's Crypt.
Tezzeret the Seeker - I used to run this card and it has always been good. With that said, I am not sure if it is necessary which is why it is not currently in the deck. If I faced more MLD I would definitely run this.
Myojin of Night's Reach - I play Cabal Conditioning instead, because of Call to Mind and Archaeomancer. I would not object to playing the Myojin, though.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - I don't think this is as good as Blightsteel Colossus at finishing games. IMO it is better to pick the finisher that does a better job at finishing games than the finisher with more value, so Blightsteel is in and Ulamog is not. Having to pass the turn multiple times before killing only one player when this deck is in finishing mode is not a good idea. Also, this deck is somewhat "league friendly" in that it doesn't take infinite turns (unless it wants to) and isn't a combo or stax deck, and having to trigger Annihilator every attack is something I don't necessarily want to do with my main finisher. Also note that Kozilek is more of an engine card here than an actual finisher although Koz can do an OK job at that.
Sorin Markov - It may sound strange, but this is not the type of deck that has an easier time killing an opponent on 10 than one on 40. The political cost of running Sorin outweighs the political benefit of making an attacking opponent's target (not me) easier to kill.
Gilded Drake - It is a removal spell that can accidentally win games with Capsize. There isn't room for it in the deck as currently configured, but it may be better than Condemn depending on the meta.
Toxic Deluge - I like that it is another way to deal with indestructible things and the mana cost is very attractive. Oloro could pay 10 life to drop this, easy. I am not sure if I need it though, or what I would cut. But I am a fan of running it in Oloro.
Catastrophe - I could run this "just in case" I need to nuke a ramp player's lands. But I am not scared of ramp at all and I have other decks that are all about mana screwing people. I don't think that I need this card.
Austere Command and/or Merciless Eviction - These compete with Akroma's Vengeance for said card's slot. I like Vengeance because it deals with pretty much everything all at once, and Eviction's exile isn't as necessary thanks to Terminus. Depending on my meta, though, I might choose differently (most likely Merciless Eviction)
Worst Fears - I suspect that this card is not needed, and competes with the Cabal Conditioning slot (which is a necessary card), but I may try this. The ability to do it multiple times with Archaeomancer and Crystal Shard seems fun.
Dissipate - I like Mindbreak Trap more than this because it is occasionally free, and because it is "Boseiju-proof."
Misdirection - You probably already know whether or not you need this card. If turn four combo is a thing in your meta, then Misdirection is probably a good idea. If it isn't, then you don't need it. It's still a good card, though.
Mortify - I ran this over Ashes to Ashes in Sen Trips because that deck (which is basically this one) couldn't afford the life loss. Now that Oloro is here I will take the 2-for-1 exiling card and be happy about it.
Vendilion Clique - This is a super wonky choice. I have tried it in Sen Trips and I don't like it, but it has some interesting interactions with Riptide Laboratory if you are basically heads-up versus one opponent. If your meta is very, very blue-saturated, then I would consider running this (and Sen Triplets).
Volition Reins - I have played games in which I wanted one more resource for Academy Rector and Volition Reins is the card I have gone to. I think it's worse than O-Ring, though, due to Capsize and Venser.
In case anyone wanted to know, the Sen Triplets version of this deck is what I posted above, but with
-1 Necropotence
-1 Ashes to Ashes
and
+1 Deep Analysis
+1 Mortify
You could also probably get away with running 34 lands. Especially if you replace two of those lands with rocks or Tithe.
I would probably cut Mirari, Ingenuity and four lands.
Add Drake, Deluge (or a white wrath), Tithe, Thran Dynamo (or Coalition Relic or Chromatic Lantern), Ponder and maybe Magus of the Moat.
I'm also not a huge fan of Crypt in slow control builds. Oloro mitigates it slightly but I almost feel Mox Diamond is better since you run Land Tax.
I also really like Future Sight but you may not ant to cut anything for it.
Edit: actually, I would probably cut Desertion over Ingenuity. Or both and run a Future Sight.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Add Drake, Deluge (or a white wrath), Tithe, Thran Dynamo (or Coalition Relic or Chromatic Lantern), Ponder and maybe Magus of the Moat.
I'm also not a huge fan of Crypt in slow control builds. Oloro mitigates it slightly but I almost feel Mox Diamond is better since you run Land Tax.
I also really like Future Sight but you may not ant to cut anything for it.
Edit: actually, I would probably cut Desertion over Ingenuity. Or both and run a Future Sight.
I don't think the deck could run 34 lands without running about five more mana artifacts and Tezz. If I wanted to go in the direction of stax/resource denial, this is what I would be doing. But mana screw is one of the few ways this deck can lose. A 3 land hand that bricks on land a bunch of times can lose games. If Rector and/or Omniscience is dealt with, in a 34 land deck my win conditions will be uncastable. This deck is more mana hungry than it looks.
I agree that Mirari is cuttable. It works wonders when it resolves AND survives, but tapping out for it is dicey at best and it rarely survives. I'll think about taking it out.
Jace's Ingenuity is actually pretty amazing. I suspect it is better than Future Sight in this particular deck due to the Omniscience interaction.
I also really like Tormod's Crypt because it means I don't have to be committed to getting Bojuka Bog every time with Expedition Map. This deck needs answers for everything and graveyard recursion is definitely high on the list of threats.
Tormod's is a great control card in recursion heavy metas. Probably a for sure include if your meta is like that.
Between your draw spells, land tax, Top, Jace and tutors (in a pinch) you should be able to get away with less lands. I understand your concerns but maybe compromise and drop to 36?
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Mana Crypt is so good, I can't cut it. Especially not in this deck
I may try 37 land and add the Deluge and a Chromatic Lantern.
EDIT: OK wow Deluge is a lot of tickets on MTGO. Is this card played in Legacy or something?
Wow...it's up to around $10 for a cardboard print as well...it must be seeing play in legacy or vintage...
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I took out two lands (the M10 duals) for City of Brass and Chromatic Lantern. There have been no issues, there. City and Mana Confluence are perfect cards for this deck since they are effectively enter-the-battlefield-untapped trilands with no drawback. I also took out the Mirari for Toxic Deluge and have been impressed with that card as well.
Another update is that I have resolved Oloro a few times. He's actually pretty good in play but the turn you go to cast him, you have to know how much your opponents can throw at you before you untap and predict (correctly) that there's nothing they could have that significantly disrupts you or changes the board. When the game reaches a lull though and you can afford to cast him without much worry, the extra card is certainly beneficial.
I am also considering replacing Counterspell with Arcane Denial since I am somewhat persuaded that in this deck, Denial's ability to replace itself (while putting one opponent up a card) is better than putting myself (and an opponent) down a card. I'm not yet ready to make that change but I am thinking about it.
Overall, this is my favorite deck in Commander right now since it wins most games, but it also is a very interactive and engaging deck to play since you have to make a lot of decisions and think through "which of their threats do I have to counter" and "how long can I afford to wait to use mass removal" while thinking about their cards in hand and what the opponents could have.
Seeing either is almost a free license to cast your hand because you can just replenish to 7. Wheels with card draw also make it so you can afford to play less land usually.
I've also just reworked my build to one that actually casts Oloro. It's shocking the card advantage he can generate. As long as your build isn't dependent on the life gain I say cast him as often as possible.
I might dump Counterspell for either Remand or Swan Song instead of Denial. Obviously there are situations where Remand isn't as good but often it does the job while replacing itself. Swan Song is limited but I find the stuff it can deal with is often the stuff I want to stop. At the least I'd consider dumping Counterspell for Denial and something else for Swan Song.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I wouldn't consider Time Spiral for this deck right now, but it's a great card no question
There's not another counter I am particularly interested in cutting. I'm actually kind of far away from changing the counterspell suite in this deck ... but I mentioned Denial because I have thought about it in passing. Swan Song could protect a hardcast Omniscience and the deck can clearly ignore the token, but that's a corner case IMO. Same deal for Remand - I have that card mentally filed under, "protect your combo the turn you're trying to going off" in multiplayer and this deck doesn't need that.
Oloro is a good creature to have in play. When you want him you basically have to spend all of your mana for that turn, though, so you just have to have a read on your opponents and know how much they could hurt you while you're tapped out. He is definitely an asset to the deck and not one that is likely to get you killed a la Sen Triplets, you just can't cast him when you need open mana for reactive spells or you need to cast a wrath next turn.
The card I am interesting in trying out for this deck as of today is Unexpectedly Absent over the Condemn. Condemn's corner case doesn't come up that often (e.g. vs a Rafiq attacking on turn four with infect or something), and in the not-too-infrequent scenario where I find myself discarding cards at EoT Condemn's number is often up. Unexpectedly Absent looks like a quality disruptive card that tucks pretty well and has broader application than Condemn. So I am going to try it in the near future and let y'all know how it performs.
Just for future consideration.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
just becareful with notion thief. I got milled out due to a concecrated sphinx. Theif could be a dead card if only 1 person is getting one or two cards here and there additional cards - as you have to keep mana open rather than play out stuff. I play around this card with dark tutalege and necropotence (put into hand vs draw).
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I pretty much only play him if I know I can immediately wheel out their hands. It's pretty much impossible to lose after that. Odds are I'll hit a few counters and some kill spells. If one is Forbid...
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Casting Thief in response to an opponent's Wheel is so priceless, though. In all I support the card's inclusion but I don't think it's really needed vs an unknown meta so I wouldn't cut anything for it for now.
Why are you playing Forbid?
Because it's a 3 mana counter that can be easily bought back if you play a ton of card draw. It can lock games down. Honestly I haven't played my most recent build enough to see if it outclasses cheaper counters but in older builds it was a super star at times.
If you play big draw spells like Insight, Rev, Decree of Pain and your win cons take multiple turns to go off I feel like you almost have to play Forbid. The only reason I maybe shouldn't is because I often draw instant win combos off a big draw so a cheaper counter would be more valuable.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Interesting. The way I see it, there is nothing worth countering that's worth incurring card disadvantage over (apart from FoW anti-combo scenarios) in a deck that can just blow everything away anyway. In other words, the way I play this deck, I only have to counter stuff that really matters since everything else can be swept. That's actually a lot of the fun of the deck... Making decisions about what I can and can't let resolve with the idea that if I play correctly I can just sweep the less important stuff.
Another consideration is the fact that Blightsteel only takes one turn per opponent to win. A counter or two is enough... If not more than enough to seal the deal. This is actually the number one case for Blighsteel... It's pretty hard to interact with anyway
Also, my testing of Unexpectedly Absent over Condemn has been unsatisfying so far, but I haven't drawn it enough yet to completely abandon the card. I'm watching out for it, though. I'm considering adding a Council's Judgment, which seems really strong especially if you can somehow predict how to get a split vote with it. Slaughter Pact is another possibility since it pushes the broken Rector/Omniscience interaction