Change Log 3/5/15:
+Gilded Drake, -Bant Charm I actually made this change some time ago, but just realized I forgot to add it to my list. Gilded Drake is extremely powerful in this deck. I wasn't wild about Bant Charm, with it's restrictive color requirements, and the rest of the deck has solid removal so I felt I could lose this one.
I've included meddling mage in my build.. Being able to turn off a low casting cost general or a bomb spell you know someone is building up for (example : green ramping into Genesis wave etc...). It can be played and then changed with a Roon flicker. I haven't used it in a game yet, but in my head it seems pretty awesome
I've included meddling mage in my build.. Being able to turn off a low casting cost general or a bomb spell you know someone is building up for (example : green ramping into Genesis wave etc...). It can be played and then changed with a Roon flicker. I haven't used it in a game yet, but in my head it seems pretty awesome
Hey Joe,
I have definitely considered Meddling Mage before. My only copy is currently in my 1v1 Geist of Saint Traft deck, so I can't test it right now, but it seems like a bit too narrow of an answer to be very effective in my playgroup. I suspect that if I were having particular trouble with just one particular general, I might consider it more. As my meta stands now, I don't think this card is proactive enough or broad enough to help me with the aspects of EDH that this deck doesn't already excel.
Change Log 5/29/15:
+Dissipate, -Hinder With the advent of the commander tuck rule (if your commander is tucked, you can instead put it back in the command zone) I feel the tuck counterspells became less effective. There are more times now that I'd rather exile an opponent's spell than tuck it, as the tuck was a way to combat certain commanders. I'll probably end up later cutting Spell Crumple to be replaced with Faerie Trickery, but I just haven't gotten my hands on one yet.
Deck has been playing very well otherwise, but always looking for suggestions!
Hey Outcryqq, I've had the ability to play Roon a lot more recently and I'm really wanting to figure out some changes. Our builds are a little different because I'm using Mystic Snake/Venser with Deadeye to achieve a counter spell lock on the game as a wincon, but I'm sure you still have the same issues I do.
My real problem with the deck is it has a hard time reaching out and killing someone. Every time I use it it kind of just sits there and controls things or just does litera nothing. I'm wanting to try to add some cards to help that. I'm debating Time Warp because it goes infinite with EWitnesses and several other cards. I think it's a decent way to steal a game. I feel like the deck needs more than that though. It really needs a threat somewhere that if left unchecked can end games. Consecrated Sphinx seems reasonable, but Roon doesn't really play Reanimation effecta and I think if I added something like that I would want to
Also, have you tried out Enlightened Tutor or Mystical Tutor? I'm debating them, but idk if they are good enough to justify the price.
Yup, I actually have Mystical Tutor in my decklist, and I've definitely considered adding Enlightened Tutor, though I currently do not have a copy to put in the deck. I think they are justifiable because our non-creature answers are usually specific, toolbox variety answers - sweepers in case we're swarmed, artifact/enchantment hate, or counter magic to protect a strong board state.
In terms of finishing out games, I completely agree with you - the slow pace of this deck's finishers is one of the weakest points of the deck. Although I do not see your decklist, my finishers include Angel of Serenity, Sun Titan, and Armada Wurm, and then using Rite of Replication on any of those (or a strong creature an opponent controls). If you have a controlled board state like this deck tends to do, 5 copies of a 5+ power creature is usually enough to finish out a game.
I would prefer the above two ways over time magic, just because time magic in my meta usually extracts groans from opposing players (takes too much time).
Anyway, if you think of any more interesting finishers, I'd love to hear it! Good luck
I missed Mystical Tutor when I was looking through your list...I went over my decklist again and decided both tutors were good enough too. I also have Fauna Shaman and Worldly Tutor in the deck because I want as many ways as possible to get Prophet.
I run the same cards as you on the win conditions, except Rite of Replication. Usually with my play group, 9 mana is impossible to get to. Either Strip Mine/Crucible happens or games just don't go long enough in general. Usually I'm sitting there having to play answer after answer and neglecting playing ramp and card draw. One friend plays Animar, one plays Krenko, and another plays any one of his combo decks that have turn 4 kills, typically turn 6. It's just really hard to approach 9 mana and even harder to tap out at any point for a 9 mana card. That's the same reason I don't like Tooth and Nail much, although that promptly ends the game.
I understand Time Warp is groan worthy, but I'm fairly sure the deck does need it, at least in my Meta. The decks are cutthroat and combo oriented and I need to up the power level.
I probably need to put more Counterspells in my deck, all I really have is Mystic Snake and Venser so maybe that would help get games to last longer.
I'd post my list but I'm on mobile until I get my wife's laptop working or a new screen for mine, lol
I thought she didn't ramp, doesn't she put it into your hand? Borderland Ranger but more narrow is my understanding. I might include her in my list because she's a green creature that can kinda/sorta win?
I thought she didn't ramp, doesn't she put it into your hand? Borderland Ranger but more narrow is my understanding. I might include her in my list because she's a green creature that can kinda/sorta win?
That's true, she doesn't ramp, but she's amazing in that she's never a dead card. Early game, she will help make sure you stay on curve. Late game you can flip her the turn she comes into play and begin drawing 2 cards a turn and threaten 36 haste damage whenever you want. Recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark, also easily tutorable. Very strong card imo.
Hey, cool Roon deck, been thinking to recreate it for my playgroup. What about this new guy: You think it would fit? I think it's a great blink target which plays multiple roles, either as beatdown and toolbox tutor. I mean it has a pretty nice range of targets.
Not hard to hit either with the ramp output of green and bounce potential of W/U. May have to get 2 of it, for Roon, and Animar lol
I thought she didn't ramp, doesn't she put it into your hand? Borderland Ranger but more narrow is my understanding. I might include her in my list because she's a green creature that can kinda/sorta win?
That's true, she doesn't ramp, but she's amazing in that she's never a dead card. Early game, she will help make sure you stay on curve. Late game you can flip her the turn she comes into play and begin drawing 2 cards a turn and threaten 36 haste damage whenever you want. Recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark, also easily tutorable. Very strong card imo.
I like Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf because it puts the land into play, although unfortunately with Farhaven, it's tapped...
Hey, cool Roon deck, been thinking to recreate it for my playgroup. What about this new guy: You think it would fit? I think it's a great blink target which plays multiple roles, either as beatdown and toolbox tutor. I mean it has a pretty nice range of targets.
Hey Umex, I think he has some potential. I took a brief look at the creatures he could tutor for in my list:
It's a decent list, but the limitations are rough. My other tutors, like Birthing Pod or Eladamri's Call do not have as bad of limitations, but they also aren't tacked into a decent body. I might keep it in mind, or it might work even better in a list with a few more varied options in green at 3cmc or less. Good catch!
Hi,
I don't really get why you play mana artifacts at all in a deck with green, if your meta is artifact-destruction-heavy. Nature's Lore is a 1 mana less and doesn't care about Vandalblast, searching you for shocklands strictly better than Farseek. If you dare, there is also no worse but expensive Three Visits. Kiora's Follower is madly good here as well, serving you as a ramp creature in the beginning of the game and as commander untapper later on (just try it, it's one of the most awesome creatures in this deck imo). Knight of the Reliquary's any land searching abilities are also too cool to pass on. It ramps, fixes mana issues, searches for important lands and gets big and out of control very fast, especially with some help of Kiora's Follower. Oracle of Mul Daya is probably the best ramp engine in green ever printed. With fetches and amount of scrying in your deck it's basically a 4 mana Primeval Titan.
Hope it's useful, cheers
Hi Aspsnake,
Kiora's Follower is probably worth testing. I used to use Oracle of Mul Daya, but I ended up cutting her, as she felt a bit slow at 4cmc. Knight of the Reliquary is a really powerful card, and I run Maverick in Legacy so I'm familiar with how great he is; however, my deck doesn't run a whole lot of utility land (which might be a mistake), so right now his biggest use of finding important utility land isn't really relevant. Without an ETB effect to boot, he'd really end up being an OK mana fixer and a beater - unfortunately not relevant enough for my meta.
As to mana rocks, the only two I use are Darksteel Ingot and Coalition Relic, and both are very powerful for me: my meta has some mass LD, and rocks are important. In addition, the ingot is indestructible, which is good due to the amount of artifact removal in my meta. Finally, I think Coalition Relic is extraordinarily powerful, both as a rock but a ramp source too - it can ramp into a 6 drop on turn 4! For those reasons, I really think the two mana rocks I use are solid choices, although I agree that Farseek is a decent option to be on the chopping block.
I thought she didn't ramp, doesn't she put it into your hand? Borderland Ranger but more narrow is my understanding. I might include her in my list because she's a green creature that can kinda/sorta win?
That's true, she doesn't ramp, but she's amazing in that she's never a dead card. Early game, she will help make sure you stay on curve. Late game you can flip her the turn she comes into play and begin drawing 2 cards a turn and threaten 36 haste damage whenever you want. Recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark, also easily tutorable. Very strong card imo.
I like Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf because it puts the land into play, although unfortunately with Farhaven, it's tapped...
I definitely agree that Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf are powerful, but I also really believe that Nissa, Vastwood Seer is going to be good in the deck because she's great both early and late game - that kind of flexibility is hard to find in an etb mana dude. She's good early to help me hit my land drops, can be blinked for extra land, and late game can flip the turn she comes into play, and Nissa, Sage Animist becomes a repeatable source of card advantage using her +1 every turn. And like I already said, the icing on the cake is that she's easily tutorable and recurrable with just about any tutor or recursion in my deck.
Depending on how you look at it, Nissa is probably better than Wood Elves, Wood Elves is a 1/1 that can fetch Forest duals - but won't actually win the game and becomes a less useful blink target compared to Farhaven Elf. Just my two cents.
I'm going to hold off til after release, Nissa is preselling for $20+ and she's just not that worth it IMO.
Okay from reading your roon deck I feel like your missing a lot of powerful cards that I personally play in my build. The biggest cards your missing are defense of the heart, congregation at dawn, mystic snake, venser I saw you mentioned you wanted to get in, cryptic command the best counter spell. Those are auto includes imo there are several other thats I love, Lavinia of the tenth, she has won me countless games and can singal handedly defeat certain decks like eleves for example. I like sunblast angel a lot as well she can massacre people's boards and with a instant speed blink you control all attacks, chord of calling is insane I think should be played, Mirari's wake is great and restoration angel for an instant blink with a body is strong also. If nothing else please try testing defense of the heart if it goes off you win, I don't think I've lost a game after it goes off. Congregation at dawn is gross also it sets you up for complete destruction.
Try using cardtags man, it's easier on potential reader, I was thinking of adding Momentary Blink fr the protecion factor in the deck. The flashback is an added bonus for future use.
I don't know about you guys and your playgroups, but Defense of the Heart either gets destroyed, or gets you destroyed.
Yeah it's a cool card for getting that Craterhoof & Avenger win, but it seems too slow. Blinking craterhoof seems interesting in a deck like this. I find when I'm playing, I get to that point where either Prophet of Kruphix or Deadeye and some combo card (Venser/Acidic Slime) out and generally take the game over.
I like the card but find it hard to get mileage out of.
Hey Outcryqq, wanted to check back in with you to say once again: thanks for the list!
Roon is now my favorite of my commander decks and the one I take with me to FNM anytime I'm not at my regular shop. It's fun, good in 1-1 or multiplayer matches, and powerful!
New Nissa seems great for the deck although I doubt the price will drop anytime soon =[ I'm also excited to try out Bellower (wish it didn't limit to green though!) and can attest that Kiora's Follwer has been good for me. More flexible than Thousand-Year Elixir which some people run.
I agree, I really enjoy playing my Roon deck, it's very fun and can compete at just about any table. Sorry I've been a little quiet lately, I've been working on a new project - a pauper deck for when I'm playing some of my friends that are much newer to the format. However, I did put a copy of Nissa, Vastwood Seer in the deck and I will report back after I've gotten some games in with her.
I can confirm that there are hands when the deck feels incredibly slow. I even addressed that problem in my primer (see Sample Hands, Hand #2). You definitely will want to take that into consideration when choosing to keep or mulligan away a hand.
I have not tested Flickerwisp, though I have a pretty good understanding of its capabilities since I've played it in modern death and taxes. You're correct, he's much better when you can flash him in, which is much easier to do in a 60-card format than commander. I wouldn't fault a Roon list for using him, but I think we have better options available to us in this format.
Funny that you should ask me about Minamo, School at Water's Edge. It's a great inclusion in a Roon list, but I only recently (well, back in August, but I haven't updated due to my work schedule) picked up a copy. I agree that it should be included and will be updating the list once I've had a chance to test some BFZ cards.
------
Speaking of BFZ, anyone have ideas for cards they have tested or think should be tested? For me, the following list are things I think merit a look:
Retreat to Coralhelm: Obviously a combo enabler, but I suspect that this might work to produce some great value late game by untapping Roon, or early game by letting us filter our draws. It's probably best if we also included a Knight of the Reliquary, but I believe that combo is better in a 60-card format than EDH with multiple opponents, since you open yourself up to getting blown out at the expense of maybe knocking out one opponent.
Greenwarden of Murasa: Almost a sure include, he's a beefier Eternal Witness with a possible LTB effect on him. It's gravy that his LTB effect is a "may" effect, so if you have recursion you can refuse to exile him, but if you don't have recursion, you can pull something else back from the yard.
Seek the Wilds: Probably not going to make the cut, but at least worthy of a once-over. It's a limited tutor, but we can grab a creature or a land, which makes it have relevance in the early or late game.
Kiora, Master of the Depths: Her +1 is great! I do not like walkers in EDH much, but she is a candidate for this deck. Her -2 is relevant as well. She is relevant whether you are ahead or behind on board, and she can be relevant early or late game. Although I only like to measure a walker on its + or - abilities, her ultimate is capable of finishing the game as well. she's definitely one worth testing.
The blighted lands look cool, but I am concerned about only producing colorless. I already have a lot of utility lands (which I actually want to cut down on), and this wouldn't help. However, Blighted Woodland shows some promise and I may consider testing it.
Fertile Thicket: If I cut down on utility lands and up my basic land count, this card might get some testing. It was great in limited this weekend at prerelease, but that deck was generally 14/15 out of 17 basic lands. In this deck, it's more likely to whiff.
The new tangolands: I like these more than some others than have been posting. Especially if I up my basic land out, I will be adding them to the deck. I assume others have tested these in 3-color decks already?
Have I missed something? Have you tested any of these? I appreciate all input!
While more common to Jenara decks, have you considered Zameck Guildmage or Sage of fables as extra card draw that combos with Glen Elendra?
Likewise, have you considered Fathom Mage as a reset-able card draw on all your blinks?
I would also personally consider Godsend in every Roon list. It turns him into a 3-hit Commander kill that can simply ignore 2 attackers. Likewise, Reconnaissance allows for an extra roon use on your turn, lets you play with combat, and also lets you sneak in extra Commander damage.
In BFZ cards -
Do you already run Deadwood Treefolk? If not, then take Greenwarden of Murasa with a grain of salt - The greenwarden haz all sorts of upsides, such as recurring non-creatures, having a more relevant body, not vanishing, etc. But Deadwood is easier to abuse, so I find them at least comparable. 6 mana is a lot for an initial regrowth.
Bring to Light I think is more a card to combo with Restore Balance. Some decks may end up using this quite profitably, using it as a 5 mana balance to control the board/hands, and using it as a utility tutor at other times. Not for every deck though.
Also, don't forget Void Attendant - with Roon and Mistmeadow, it's direct removal. Very powerful in Roon.
Kiora, Master of the Depths - Not only does Roon want to untap, but he wants to pass with open mana to activate. Kiora's first ability does both of these. Her second ability is just gravy for creature-centric builds, particularly ones that like to tutor creatures to the top of the library (sylvan and worldly tutor here). Her ultimate provides a great excuse to acquire some of those epic octopus tokens. Greenwarden of Murasa - I play a sac/recursion engine in my list so there are ways to abuse both triggers. 4 ways to sac it, 3 ways to loop it back. Also can clone it. I'll be testing. Bring to Light - The card everyone is going to play. Might as well play it too. Retreat to Coralhelm - A goodstuff card that could make the cut. More untap action for Roon fueled facilitated by lots of fetching triggers. Plus scrying is always welcome.
@bobthefunny's on Greenwarden vs Deadwood: I want Greenwarden 100% more than Deadwood. My E Witness wants redundancy. If I lose Witness to exile, I don't want to depend on just Sun Titan to get recur my Aura Shards or Skullclamp. I don't want to depend on just Archaeomancer to get back my Council's Judgment or Cyclonic Rift. I can't even GSZ those guys. Plus, Greenwarden nets cards with Greater Good where Deadwood doesn't, and I try to abuse the hell of Greater Good. I see a alot of comparisons between the two but to me it's apples and oranges. Deadwood is like a third rate Karmic Guide or Saffi whereas Greenwarden is like an abusable Regrowth 3.0
@Outcryqq on Bring to Light: Our sorcery/instant suite is small but great. I feel like running Mystical Tutor or Merchant Scroll is too narrow of a slot to take up in the 99. However, I still want to be able to get really dynamic answers to tough situations. I find that when I need cyclonic rift, council's judgment, beast within, swords to plowshares.. I NEED it. Hell, maybe I answer something but mostly want it in my GY so I can start abusing Archaeomancer, or maybe get a 2-for-1 out of it with Snapcaster.. Don't get me wrong, Mystical Tutor is fantastic especially if you're running bombastic spells like T&N, Austere Command, Genesis Wave, Rite of Replication, etc. I don't though. 5 mana to get a much needed 2 or 3 drop creature online to start a spam engine is very acceptable to me. Where Chord is instant speed, this also gets sorcery and instants which is much better imo.
@damoaerf: I just started running Flickerwisp online and it's been decent. I mostly only play 1 vs 1 online though so Flickerwisp is better there. It probably won't stay in the list though as slots are becoming more precious as I acquire the more expensive spells I want for my build.
@bobthefunny's on Greenwarden vs Deadwood: I want Greenwarden 100% more than Deadwood. My E Witness wants redundancy. If I lose Witness to exile, I don't want to depend on just Sun Titan to get recur my Aura Shards or Skullclamp. I don't want to depend on just Archaeomancer to get back my Council's Judgment or Cyclonic Rift. I can't even GSZ those guys. Plus, Greenwarden nets cards with Greater Good where Deadwood doesn't, and I try to abuse the hell of Greater Good. I see a alot of comparisons between the two but to me it's apples and oranges. Deadwood is like a third rate Karmic Guide or Saffi whereas Greenwarden is like an abusable Regrowth 3.0
In your list he makes sense then, I'm just saying that the two are highly comparable, and if Deadwood wasn't making the list before, then you should take Greenwarden's inclusion a bit skeptically. Treefolk's double return vs. Greenwarden's extra range of targets is a very valid comparison. Those creatures to bring back are your mystic snakes, your e.witts, your archaeomancers.
The Greenwarden's dies clause means he can't do double duty on blinks, and the exile/if clause means he doesn't even pull double duty on death, at least, not without token copies.
If you run a cycling/slide package, then treefolk is straight up the better slot.
Greenwarden of Murasa - I play a sac/recursion engine in my list so there are ways to abuse both triggers. 4 ways to sac it, 3 ways to loop it back. Also can clone it. I'll be testing.
You're going to have a very hard time using that recursion with that second trigger. Greenwarden is NOT a double E.Witt. He's only a single, with a "break in case of emergency" glass panel.
+Gilded Drake, -Bant Charm
I actually made this change some time ago, but just realized I forgot to add it to my list. Gilded Drake is extremely powerful in this deck. I wasn't wild about Bant Charm, with it's restrictive color requirements, and the rest of the deck has solid removal so I felt I could lose this one.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsHey Joe,
I have definitely considered Meddling Mage before. My only copy is currently in my 1v1 Geist of Saint Traft deck, so I can't test it right now, but it seems like a bit too narrow of an answer to be very effective in my playgroup. I suspect that if I were having particular trouble with just one particular general, I might consider it more. As my meta stands now, I don't think this card is proactive enough or broad enough to help me with the aspects of EDH that this deck doesn't already excel.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears+Dissipate, -Hinder
With the advent of the commander tuck rule (if your commander is tucked, you can instead put it back in the command zone) I feel the tuck counterspells became less effective. There are more times now that I'd rather exile an opponent's spell than tuck it, as the tuck was a way to combat certain commanders. I'll probably end up later cutting Spell Crumple to be replaced with Faerie Trickery, but I just haven't gotten my hands on one yet.
Deck has been playing very well otherwise, but always looking for suggestions!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsMy real problem with the deck is it has a hard time reaching out and killing someone. Every time I use it it kind of just sits there and controls things or just does litera nothing. I'm wanting to try to add some cards to help that. I'm debating Time Warp because it goes infinite with EWitnesses and several other cards. I think it's a decent way to steal a game. I feel like the deck needs more than that though. It really needs a threat somewhere that if left unchecked can end games. Consecrated Sphinx seems reasonable, but Roon doesn't really play Reanimation effecta and I think if I added something like that I would want to
Also, have you tried out Enlightened Tutor or Mystical Tutor? I'm debating them, but idk if they are good enough to justify the price.
Yup, I actually have Mystical Tutor in my decklist, and I've definitely considered adding Enlightened Tutor, though I currently do not have a copy to put in the deck. I think they are justifiable because our non-creature answers are usually specific, toolbox variety answers - sweepers in case we're swarmed, artifact/enchantment hate, or counter magic to protect a strong board state.
In terms of finishing out games, I completely agree with you - the slow pace of this deck's finishers is one of the weakest points of the deck. Although I do not see your decklist, my finishers include Angel of Serenity, Sun Titan, and Armada Wurm, and then using Rite of Replication on any of those (or a strong creature an opponent controls). If you have a controlled board state like this deck tends to do, 5 copies of a 5+ power creature is usually enough to finish out a game.
If those are too slow, you'll see in this thread that quite a few other options have been suggested or considered, the top two being:
1) A Tooth and Nail package, generally including it plus Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth; or
2) An equipment package, including Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte, and a few swords.
I would prefer the above two ways over time magic, just because time magic in my meta usually extracts groans from opposing players (takes too much time).
Anyway, if you think of any more interesting finishers, I'd love to hear it! Good luck
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI run the same cards as you on the win conditions, except Rite of Replication. Usually with my play group, 9 mana is impossible to get to. Either Strip Mine/Crucible happens or games just don't go long enough in general. Usually I'm sitting there having to play answer after answer and neglecting playing ramp and card draw. One friend plays Animar, one plays Krenko, and another plays any one of his combo decks that have turn 4 kills, typically turn 6. It's just really hard to approach 9 mana and even harder to tap out at any point for a 9 mana card. That's the same reason I don't like Tooth and Nail much, although that promptly ends the game.
I understand Time Warp is groan worthy, but I'm fairly sure the deck does need it, at least in my Meta. The decks are cutthroat and combo oriented and I need to up the power level.
I probably need to put more Counterspells in my deck, all I really have is Mystic Snake and Venser so maybe that would help get games to last longer.
I'd post my list but I'm on mobile until I get my wife's laptop working or a new screen for mine, lol
GBU Sidisis Vegetarian Zombies. Tutorless reanimation GBU
GB75% Nath of the Gilt-Leaf. My GFs elf tribal deck.GB
Comments, advice and feedback always appreciated.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsThat's true, she doesn't ramp, but she's amazing in that she's never a dead card. Early game, she will help make sure you stay on curve. Late game you can flip her the turn she comes into play and begin drawing 2 cards a turn and threaten 36 haste damage whenever you want. Recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark, also easily tutorable. Very strong card imo.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsNot hard to hit either with the ramp output of green and bounce potential of W/U. May have to get 2 of it, for Roon, and Animar lol
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
I like Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf because it puts the land into play, although unfortunately with Farhaven, it's tapped...
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Hey Umex, I think he has some potential. I took a brief look at the creatures he could tutor for in my list:
It's a decent list, but the limitations are rough. My other tutors, like Birthing Pod or Eladamri's Call do not have as bad of limitations, but they also aren't tacked into a decent body. I might keep it in mind, or it might work even better in a list with a few more varied options in green at 3cmc or less. Good catch!
Hi Aspsnake,
Kiora's Follower is probably worth testing. I used to use Oracle of Mul Daya, but I ended up cutting her, as she felt a bit slow at 4cmc. Knight of the Reliquary is a really powerful card, and I run Maverick in Legacy so I'm familiar with how great he is; however, my deck doesn't run a whole lot of utility land (which might be a mistake), so right now his biggest use of finding important utility land isn't really relevant. Without an ETB effect to boot, he'd really end up being an OK mana fixer and a beater - unfortunately not relevant enough for my meta.
As to mana rocks, the only two I use are Darksteel Ingot and Coalition Relic, and both are very powerful for me: my meta has some mass LD, and rocks are important. In addition, the ingot is indestructible, which is good due to the amount of artifact removal in my meta. Finally, I think Coalition Relic is extraordinarily powerful, both as a rock but a ramp source too - it can ramp into a 6 drop on turn 4! For those reasons, I really think the two mana rocks I use are solid choices, although I agree that Farseek is a decent option to be on the chopping block.
I definitely agree that Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf are powerful, but I also really believe that Nissa, Vastwood Seer is going to be good in the deck because she's great both early and late game - that kind of flexibility is hard to find in an etb mana dude. She's good early to help me hit my land drops, can be blinked for extra land, and late game can flip the turn she comes into play, and Nissa, Sage Animist becomes a repeatable source of card advantage using her +1 every turn. And like I already said, the icing on the cake is that she's easily tutorable and recurrable with just about any tutor or recursion in my deck.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI'm going to hold off til after release, Nissa is preselling for $20+ and she's just not that worth it IMO.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Yeah it's a cool card for getting that Craterhoof & Avenger win, but it seems too slow. Blinking craterhoof seems interesting in a deck like this. I find when I'm playing, I get to that point where either Prophet of Kruphix or Deadeye and some combo card (Venser/Acidic Slime) out and generally take the game over.
I like the card but find it hard to get mileage out of.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Roon is now my favorite of my commander decks and the one I take with me to FNM anytime I'm not at my regular shop. It's fun, good in 1-1 or multiplayer matches, and powerful!
New Nissa seems great for the deck although I doubt the price will drop anytime soon =[ I'm also excited to try out Bellower (wish it didn't limit to green though!) and can attest that Kiora's Follwer has been good for me. More flexible than Thousand-Year Elixir which some people run.
I agree, I really enjoy playing my Roon deck, it's very fun and can compete at just about any table. Sorry I've been a little quiet lately, I've been working on a new project - a pauper deck for when I'm playing some of my friends that are much newer to the format. However, I did put a copy of Nissa, Vastwood Seer in the deck and I will report back after I've gotten some games in with her.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI can confirm that there are hands when the deck feels incredibly slow. I even addressed that problem in my primer (see Sample Hands, Hand #2). You definitely will want to take that into consideration when choosing to keep or mulligan away a hand.
I have not tested Flickerwisp, though I have a pretty good understanding of its capabilities since I've played it in modern death and taxes. You're correct, he's much better when you can flash him in, which is much easier to do in a 60-card format than commander. I wouldn't fault a Roon list for using him, but I think we have better options available to us in this format.
Funny that you should ask me about Minamo, School at Water's Edge. It's a great inclusion in a Roon list, but I only recently (well, back in August, but I haven't updated due to my work schedule) picked up a copy. I agree that it should be included and will be updating the list once I've had a chance to test some BFZ cards.
------
Speaking of BFZ, anyone have ideas for cards they have tested or think should be tested? For me, the following list are things I think merit a look:
Have I missed something? Have you tested any of these? I appreciate all input!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsLikewise, have you considered Fathom Mage as a reset-able card draw on all your blinks?
I would also personally consider Godsend in every Roon list. It turns him into a 3-hit Commander kill that can simply ignore 2 attackers. Likewise, Reconnaissance allows for an extra roon use on your turn, lets you play with combat, and also lets you sneak in extra Commander damage.
In BFZ cards -
Do you already run Deadwood Treefolk? If not, then take Greenwarden of Murasa with a grain of salt - The greenwarden haz all sorts of upsides, such as recurring non-creatures, having a more relevant body, not vanishing, etc. But Deadwood is easier to abuse, so I find them at least comparable. 6 mana is a lot for an initial regrowth.
Bring to Light I think is more a card to combo with Restore Balance. Some decks may end up using this quite profitably, using it as a 5 mana balance to control the board/hands, and using it as a utility tutor at other times. Not for every deck though.
Also, don't forget Void Attendant - with Roon and Mistmeadow, it's direct removal. Very powerful in Roon.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Kiora, Master of the Depths - Not only does Roon want to untap, but he wants to pass with open mana to activate. Kiora's first ability does both of these. Her second ability is just gravy for creature-centric builds, particularly ones that like to tutor creatures to the top of the library (sylvan and worldly tutor here). Her ultimate provides a great excuse to acquire some of those epic octopus tokens.
Greenwarden of Murasa - I play a sac/recursion engine in my list so there are ways to abuse both triggers. 4 ways to sac it, 3 ways to loop it back. Also can clone it. I'll be testing.
Bring to Light - The card everyone is going to play. Might as well play it too.
Retreat to Coralhelm - A goodstuff card that could make the cut. More untap action for Roon fueled facilitated by lots of fetching triggers. Plus scrying is always welcome.
@bobthefunny's on Greenwarden vs Deadwood: I want Greenwarden 100% more than Deadwood. My E Witness wants redundancy. If I lose Witness to exile, I don't want to depend on just Sun Titan to get recur my Aura Shards or Skullclamp. I don't want to depend on just Archaeomancer to get back my Council's Judgment or Cyclonic Rift. I can't even GSZ those guys. Plus, Greenwarden nets cards with Greater Good where Deadwood doesn't, and I try to abuse the hell of Greater Good. I see a alot of comparisons between the two but to me it's apples and oranges. Deadwood is like a third rate Karmic Guide or Saffi whereas Greenwarden is like an abusable Regrowth 3.0
@Outcryqq on Bring to Light: Our sorcery/instant suite is small but great. I feel like running Mystical Tutor or Merchant Scroll is too narrow of a slot to take up in the 99. However, I still want to be able to get really dynamic answers to tough situations. I find that when I need cyclonic rift, council's judgment, beast within, swords to plowshares.. I NEED it. Hell, maybe I answer something but mostly want it in my GY so I can start abusing Archaeomancer, or maybe get a 2-for-1 out of it with Snapcaster.. Don't get me wrong, Mystical Tutor is fantastic especially if you're running bombastic spells like T&N, Austere Command, Genesis Wave, Rite of Replication, etc. I don't though. 5 mana to get a much needed 2 or 3 drop creature online to start a spam engine is very acceptable to me. Where Chord is instant speed, this also gets sorcery and instants which is much better imo.
@damoaerf: I just started running Flickerwisp online and it's been decent. I mostly only play 1 vs 1 online though so Flickerwisp is better there. It probably won't stay in the list though as slots are becoming more precious as I acquire the more expensive spells I want for my build.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
In your list he makes sense then, I'm just saying that the two are highly comparable, and if Deadwood wasn't making the list before, then you should take Greenwarden's inclusion a bit skeptically. Treefolk's double return vs. Greenwarden's extra range of targets is a very valid comparison. Those creatures to bring back are your mystic snakes, your e.witts, your archaeomancers.
The Greenwarden's dies clause means he can't do double duty on blinks, and the exile/if clause means he doesn't even pull double duty on death, at least, not without token copies.
If you run a cycling/slide package, then treefolk is straight up the better slot.
You're going to have a very hard time using that recursion with that second trigger. Greenwarden is NOT a double E.Witt. He's only a single, with a "break in case of emergency" glass panel.
I'll admit that he works better with Cackling Counterpart and suite of cards.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek