Rats are easily my favorite tribe in MTG (aside from maybe zombies... BRAINS!!!!), so making a Marrow-Gnawer deck was an easy decision for me. The deck is relatively casual and plays both 1on1 and multiplayer. I built this deck a few years ago and recently decided to update it, make it a little more competitive, and add some shine to it. Here's the deck:
The concept of the deck was to build a tribal deck strong in flavor that would be fun to play with and fun to play against. This is definitely one of my favorite decks to play with! It has good interactions with the general, the evasion he provides, token production, and stalling opponents. The basic strategy is agro, making tokens and either swarming or making them big and going in for the kill. It has a couple potential kill options with infect which I think has great flavor for this deck and I might consider exploiting further. I'm thinking it may have a little too much targeted removal, so I'm looking there first for making some cuts for some of the cards on the wishlist below.
In my effort to update this deck I've made some recent changes and have some more cards on the way that I'm considering if they warrant a spot on the list. Most recent changes:
Rats of Rath + Spine of Ish Sah + lots of mana (see above) = Repeatable permanent destruction (This also works with Gate to Phyrexia and something to sac to it for repeatable artifact destruction, but only if you have other creatures and only during your upkeep)
Rats of Rath + Grave Pact + Rat Tokens or other Sac Targets = Forced sacrifice of opponent's creatures to deal with hard to kill things or for board control
Lashwrithe or Nightmare Lash + Swamps + Fear = Good chance for evasive beatdowns... Add infect for value and efficiency
Breakdown of Cards by Utility and Function
Coming Soon! Once I have some time to really dig into this, the goal is to make this into a primer, so stay tuned!
Recent Cuts/Additions and Cards Under Consideration
Adaptive Automaton is a Rat lord, by technicality. Akroma's Memorial and/or Eldrazi Monument are pretty funny with Crypt Rats. Whip of Erebos is another way to give all your rats lifelink, which I think is very welcome due to how many cards you run that cost life. Viscera Seer is a free sacrifice effect on a cheap body, useful for doing stupid things with Thornbite Staff and your commander. That and scry is always nice. Filth is always a decent option if Urborg is around. It also gives you something you'd actually want to destroy with Rats of Rath. Nightmare Lash and/or Lashwrithe are strong ways to boost an Infect/ed creature.
Not sure what you'd want to cut, but those were all my ideas.
Those are some pretty good suggestions. I've actually got a Whip of Erebos and a Nightmare Lash on the way in the mail. I like the idea of adding the Eldrazi Monument as well. I'd considered using Akroma's Memorial previously, but I think the protection from black will do more harm than good with keeping me from targeting my own creatures for sacrifices or other purposes. It's a tough call for me because the person I normally play against the most has a couple of mono-red decks.
I know Rats of Rath may seem like an odd choice, but in my meta stealing permanents is very prevalent, so the rats give me a way of depriving my opponents of taking my artifacts or creatures for their benefit and getting them into my graveyard for potential reuse. Filth has been sitting in my deck box on the side since I built this deck, and it's never found its way into the deck. That may change one day, but with the general's fear ability, the swampwalk has never seemed necessary to give up another slot.
I'm thinking that Exsanguinate is going to find a spot in here as well as a backup wincon considering all the tutors and ramp the deck runs. I know it's boring, but a wins a win, right?
I would strongly recommend Torpor Orb, the only Creature ETB effect you have is Chittering Rats and quite frankly that isn't even a very good card. Akroma's Memorial is there for the haste, go infinite with Marrow-Gnawer and kill everyone on the same turn. Scrib Nibblers is a fun card that provides really random value. The list in my sig is a tad out of date, but I think the only difference is I have worked in a couple of kill spells from the last couple sets.
I really like the idea of running Torpor Orb. Ravenous Rats, Ichor Rats, and Rotting Rats all have ETB abilities, but I can always get them out first before playing the orb, and none of their abilities are so stellar that I couldn't live without them if the Orb was already in play. Great suggestion! I'm getting ready to order a few cards, so I think I'll pick up a copy and play test it a bit. Getting it out early against my buddy's Purphoros or Norin deck will probably make him scoop.
I'm still on the fence about Akroma's Memorial. I definitely want to work an Eldrazi Monument into the deck, but maybe I'll grab the Memorial too and try them both out.
Scrib Nibblers is one I've been considering for a awhile as well. It has made its way in then is back out again a few times already. It most recently lost its spot to Nezumi Bone-Reader. The Nezumi seems to have more consistent value, but I could see dropping Rats of Rath or even Skullsnatcher to put the Nibblers back in. It's always a work in progress.
Phyrexian Arena should be the first card draw spell in any black deck. I prefer cards like Night's Whisper, Sign in Blood, and Read the Bones to Ambition's Cost. They give the same amount of cards per mana but don't eat up most or all of your turn.
Murder, Hero's Downfall, Slaughter Pact, and Snuff Out are some of black's best removal spells. If you have access to them you should play them instead of another targeted removal spell.
Just got Phyrexian Arena in the mail as my other copies were in other decks, and it is going in the rat deck tonight. I completely agree it's the best black draw assist. I'll probably pull Expunge for the slot.
It's funny you mention running Sign in Blood over Ambition's Cost. I was just thinking about switching this deck to Sign in Blood and Read the Bones, as I feel like I always blow a whole turn on the bigger spells. I wasn't even aware of Night's Whisper, so thanks for the suggestion.
I agree on your targeted removal spells other than Slaughter Pact. I just don't like the "or you lose the game" clause. I don't have any copies of Hero's Downfall yet, but I honestly have no good reason for not running Murder and Snuff Out. Snuff Out is actually sitting in a pile of cards next to the rat deck for consideration.
Door of Destinies is an interesting suggestion. I'll have to check to see if I have a copy of it and maybe play test it a bit. What I don't like about it is it has to be out on the field for a bit to become useful and it doesn't get counters for tokens. I normally use Coat of Arms right before I attack and turn 7 1/1's into 7/7's to limit the reactions. The only time it ever really stays on the field is if my alpha strike fails or if I'm getting blown up and need bigger blockers.
I didn't really like Door of Destinies when I had it. I would only have it at 2 or 3 counters for most of the game since I would be making tokens and not casting creature by the time I had it out.
Grave Pact is an absolute must since you are sacrificing creatures anyway. I would just pull the Pestilence for it.
I honestly took out creatures with ETB effects just to make Torpor Orb better.
I have a Rat deck that has a very similar effect but the main difference is I have about as many Relentless Rats crammed in as I possibly can. That is my main 1v1 deck that puts the pedal to the metal off the starting line.
Do you have a reason for not using the Relentless Rats?
Relentless Rats is an okay decktype, but I wouldn't run it if there's even the slightest chance that someone in your meta runs Sever the Bloodline. Getting your entire field exiled by one card hurts.
That and using other Rats is more fun anyway. Makes for some variance, whereas Relentless.dec plays almost the same way every time. (And Relentless.dec doesn't even want to be mono-black anyway. Sphinx of the Chimes and Bloodbond March are just too useful with them.)
I didn't really like Door of Destinies when I had it. I would only have it at 2 or 3 counters for most of the game since I would be making tokens and not casting creature by the time I had it out.
Grave Pact is an absolute must since you are sacrificing creatures anyway. I would just pull the Pestilence for it.
I honestly took out creatures with ETB effects just to make Torpor Orb better.
I was looking through my cards last night for a spare copy of Grave Pact, but I'm going to need to order one. I completely agree with its compliment to Marrow-Gnawer, and it would even give new purpose to Rats of Rath or even a small wipe of my own tokens with Crypt Rats. I might pull Pestilence for that, but I'll have a little time to decide while I wait for Grave Pact in the mail. I also ordered a Torpor Orb, so we'll see how that plays out as well. I've got both the Stone and the Disk, but so far haven't had a reason to play them. They are basically sitting in the sideboard in case I want to swap them in.
As for Relentless Rats... What it really comes down to is that I just don't find a Relentless Rats deck very interesting. It basically turns the deck into a one trick pony, and, to me at least, it doesn't really follow the spirit of EDH. In addition to that, like stated above, a Relentless Rats deck is better suited for a multicolor deck with some combination of BUG, and preferably all three.
Made some recent changes to the deck based on some of the suggestions I've gotten here. I swapped Pestilence for Grave Pact, Bad Moon for Nightmare Lash, Plague of Vermin for Exsanguinate, Patron of the Nezumi for Harvester of Souls, Diabolic Edict for Hero's Downfall, and 2 Swamps for Ancient Tomb and Phyrexian Tower. I'm still considering Akroma's Memorial and/or Eldrazi Monument, but the copies I have are currently in other decks. I think these changes get me more value out of my sacrifices and help me gain some life. I found I was never using the Patron or the Plague of Vermin and that they were mostly unusable flavor. Adding Harvester was mostly because I had a foil copy and just wanted to see how it would work out, but I'm thinking it's slot will most likely be going to either the Memorial or Monument or maybe Ashnod's Alter. Lab Rats may also be up on the chopping block. We'll see how this all works out in play testing.
Made a few more changes and updated the list. I removed Harvester of Souls and Pontiff of Blight. I wanted to try Harvester in another deck and he was basically holding a spot for Infected Vermin until I got a foil one. I didn't feel like Pontiff was pulling his weight so he made some room to finally get Eldrazi Monument in the deck. I swapped out Ancient Craving for Night's Whisper to lower the curve a bit, and then pulled Profane Command and Hideous End to add in Beseech the Queen and Murder. I'm hoping that these changes will help to increase the efficiency of deck while adding some resiliency.
In: Grim Tutor Finally got one! Phyresis - Wanted another source of infect damage to pair with all of the evasion options in the deck. Lashwrithe - Nightmare Lash became an allstar after I put it in the deck, so now I have two. Akroma's Memorial - I tried to resist adding the memorial, but its too good and makes a huge impact in the deck. Reanimate - Considering the majority of the rats have ETB's and are cheap this seems like a good inclusion. Also helps get back one of the non-rats that typically will eat removal pretty quickly. Liliana of the Dark Realms - Vess was in for her tutoring, now that I got the Grim Tutor and with the Nightmare equips, swamps just seem better now.
For the most part these changes just added some redundancy to the deck for more consistency. I'm still having a blast playing this tribe and I'm looking forward to play testing some of the newer cards from M15. I think I'm going to see how Night Dealings does in the deck, but I'm a little skeptical. I'm thinking that having crypt rat effects and fear should get the counters up quickly on it, but some testing will be required to see if it provides the benefit I'm hoping it will. Is anyone running this in a similar build with positive results?
I've also been considering pulling Rotting Rats and replacing it with Kuro's Taken or possibly Zodiac Rat. Both abilities seem relevant as the the regeneration will survive the majority of the wrath effects including my own Crypt Wrath, but the swampwalk seems good against other black decks that stand up well against my fear abilities or even just because of Urborg. At the same time, I might add another non-rat to the deck like possibly Bloodgift Demon or maybe even add Harvester of Souls back into the deck. I liked him in here before and pulled him for my Chainer deck, but he just got pulled from there for the new Ob Nixilis, so he's a strong candidate to come back. I'm torn bewteen the two because the deck can always use more draw, and while the Demon is more consistent, the Harvester has the ability to net more, and he's clearly a rat demon.
Grafted Exoskeleton - Swapped with Phyresis for a repeatable source of infect instead of the one-time use enchantment
Harvester of Souls - Swapped with Rotting Rats. I found I never wanted to cast the rat or try to recycle him. Having to discard myself just wasn't worth it, and the Harvester speaks for himself.
Spine of Ish Sah - This replaced Plague Wind. I needed a way to hit enchantments and artifacts, and this is easily reused with Rats of Rath.
Sol Ring - Not sure why this wasn't already in the deck... Replaced Thousand-Year Elixir as that was only useful with my general. Good card but needed more synergy.
Unearth - Replaced Murder. This deck does killing pretty well, and this gives me one of 17 furry critters back for a 2nd round.
Still on the fence about either Kuro's Taken or Zodiac Rat. I've been making a lot of changes to this deck recently since I started playing in a more diverse meta and with a local league. The deck has been hanging with some cutthroat deck's and I feel like the extra redundancy I've been building into it has helped to provide a lot more consistency to keep it competitive. It's always a work in progress though, so any and all suggestions are always welcome.
On a side note, my plan is to start turning this thread into a primer since there isn't one already for Marrow-Gnawer. I've looked at a few builds that aren't as heavily rat tribal, and I'd like to include something in the thread about how to take the deck in a direction that would essentially make him a black version of Krenko, Mob Boss. Any lists or ideas to that effect will be most appreciated!
Tragic Slip , Dictate of Erebos and Dark Prophecy seem like cards that would benefit from always having a sac outlet. Also would you consider the new artifact Obelisk of Urd?
I actually have Dictate of Erebos and Dark Prophecy in the deck box along with a few other cards that I can switch in if need be. Some of the others are Torpor Orb, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, Plague Wind, Pestilence, and Plague of Vermin. While all of these are really good cards, they tend to be more meta specific for me at least. Depending on where I'm playing I don't always see a lot of indestructible or token swarms, so normally what I have can keep up to either control the tempo or overrun the opponents quicker than they can get to me. Certain metas may need more sweepers or ways to deal with indestructible. Obelisk of Urd would probably make this list if I had one. While I prefer to destroy so that I can take advantage of the graveyards, it could be highly advantageous against the right opponents if they are better at using their graveyards than I am. Taking that into consideration, it has been on my radar to try to trade for one if I don't pull one from a booster. Tragic Slip was actually in the very first iteration of this deck, and it got pulled because a lot of times it was a dead draw. That being said, the list is much more fine tuned now and has more reliable sac outlets and/or consistent ways to kill things, so it might be worth taking another look at as a cheap spell that can kill almost anything. Thanks for the suggestions!
Reprocess seems like it could find a nice home in the deck. Since we touched on the topic of convoke with Obelisk of Urd, what about Endless Obedience? The ability to take any fattie from a graveyard and do it for free essentially due to the amount of rats you make that can't swing right away seems like a good choice as well. And I know they aren't rats, but something like Blood Artist or Falkenrath Noble sounds like they could find a home in your deck.
While I could potentially play the Obelisk for free, I don't know that it is really strong enough to warrant a spot in the deck. I've cut similar effects like Bad Moon and Door of Destinies that seemed great on paper but proved to be lackluster in testing. I have a decent amount of rats that make themselves bigger and Coat of Arms has proven to be the best pumper for a finishing alpha strike. Endless Obedience on the other hand, may be a powerful addition to the deck and might be a good replacement for Beacon of Unrest. I like the Beacon's ability to grab artifacts, but to grab a fattie for 2 is a huge bonus.
Reprocess... was completely unaware this was even a card. This is a fantastic suggestion and has great synergy with the sac effects and token production in the deck. At worst it's "Pay 4 and draw a couple cards", and at best it's "Pay 4, draw your deck, and win"! I'm going to have to look through my older stuff and see if I have a copy of this.
While both Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble would provide good value for the deck, I'm trying really hard to keep the identity of the rat tribal them. I actually run both of those in my other mono black deck (Army of Evil in my sig... Chainer, Demetia Master), so I'm familiar with the advantage they can provide in a sac heavy deck. One of the things I struggle with in this deck is trying to balance the theme with still being able to use some of the black staple cards that I know would make it better. The only 2 creatures in the deck that aren't rat themed are Nirkana Revenant and Crypt Ghast for mana doubling, and Harvester of Souls isn't rat themed per say, but the art fits. When I eventually rewrite this thread into a primer, I'm going to do the pure tribal version I have here as well as a more powerful version that is less themed and more streamlined for competitive play. I'd definitely consider both of those for that version of the deck.
I can see your points on the Obelisk. However, you can do Obedience for FREE, as your token rats can tap for black! Which makes it pretty nifty, The only problem with Beacon is you need a lot of card draw/library manipulation to make sure you see it often, otherwise its a 5 mana reanimate.
Good call on free! I wasn't playing during the original standard when the Convoke mechanic came out, and the only Convoke card I really play otherwise is Chord of Calling which I've only ever hard cast because mono green ramp. That's a great call. I'm definitely getting a copy and replace Beacon. Thanx again!!!
More Ideas:
Sac outlets: Phyrexian Plaguelord: Sac out, indestructibility Sadistic Hypnotist: Control, and saccing rats to get inside someones head has to be sadistic right?
Last Laugh in our meta this has been dubbed "Black Wrath that kills players too", very effective especially if you find yourself a little ahead in life Especially dumb with Blood Artist and Falkrenrath Noble, but we have discuess the reasons against their exclusions already
Minions' Murmurs: May put you more into a combo heavy build, but seems like its a better than like Promise of Power or something like that
Also, lastly could you abuse Carnival of Souls? Seems like its pretty dangerous and you have to win on the turn you play it, but would ramped mana give you access to any insta wins?
Minions' Murmurs is very interesting... The deck currently draws pretty well, especially once Skullclamp hits the board. The main reason that Promise of Power is in the deck is typically as a fallback plan to make a big evasive beater. I've only cast it without entwine in the most dire of circumstances when I needed an answer and didn't have any other options. I typically will entwine it with a full grip of cards to try and oneshot an opponent with Tainted Strike or to block a threat that is flying over my board. I think if I'm going to add more draw to the deck it would either be in the form of Bloodgift Demon or Necrologia.
The interaction of Last Laugh with Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble is totally bonkers. Sadistic Hypnotist would enjoy that interaction as well. I may have to consider Last Laugth for my Chainer deck. I really like the damage potential and wrathing it can lead to by just killing something small and watching it steamroll, but at the same time I'd really need to keep an eye on my life total as that deck tends to suicide very effectively. I can see your point though... With token production and either a single sac or Crypt Rat activation, this card could make Purphoros, God of the Forge look like amateur hour.
I could see Carnival of Souls being useful towards hitting a big Exsanguinate, but other than that it doesn't have much interaction with the deck. I feel like it would be a dead draw a lot of times because I wouldn't want to be taking the lifeloss consistently for mana I might not be able to use. There aren't a ton of mana sinks in the deck that would let me take advantage of the extra mana. This is the same reason I haven't been running Black Market in the deck. The only real insta-wins in the deck would be a big Exsanguinate, infinite rats with Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + Akroma's Memorial, or a big enough play with Crypt Rats or Infected Vermin if I'm ahead on life. Akroma's Memorial or Eldrazi Monument with the Basilisk Collar make my life total irrelevant though as I can just do mutliple activations to build my life before suiciding. I've come to realize that I need to get Deserted Temple and perhaps even Vesuva and/or Thespian's Stage in here for extra copies of Cabal Cofers. Edit: And possibly Buried Ruin too.
Petrified Field is a must get for any deck with a Coffers package. Also Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx seems pretty good with the amount of Black mana symbols you stack the board with.
Part of me wants to shoehorn in Dimir House Guard, but as it stands currently I don't think you have enough 4 CMC cards to really tutor for effectively (also a sac outlet in a pinch). Is Night Dealings on the table, it also works with your pestilence on a stick rats.
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5 Marrow-Gnawer
Rats (19)
1 Zodiac Rat
1 Typhoid Rats
2 Ravenous Rats
2 Rats of Rath
2 Nezumi Shortfang
2 Pack Rat
2 Swarm of Rats
2 Skullsnatcher
2 Nezumi Graverobber
2 Nezumi Bone-Reader
2 Ichor Rats
3 Pestilence Rats
3 Crypt Rats
3 Septic Rats
3 Infected Vermin
5 Throat Slitter
5 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
6 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Non-Rats (5):
4 Crypt Ghast
5 Ogre Slumlord
6 Ratcatcher
6 Nirkana Revenant
6 Harvester of Souls
Sorceries (14):
1 Reanimate
1 Unearth
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Sign in Blood
2 Night's Whisper
3 Grim Tutor
3 Exsanguinate
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Diabolic Tutor
5 Patriarch's Bidding
5 Promise of Power
5 Beacon of Unrest
6 Endless Obedience
1 Tainted Strike
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Snuff Out
5 Hatred
Planeswalkers (1):
4 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Artifacts (17):
1 Sol Ring
1 Expedition Map
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Skullclamp
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Thornbite Staff
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Strata Scythe
3 Rings of Brighthearth
4 Grafted Exoskeleton
4 Nightmare Lash
4 Lashwrithe
5 Coat of Arms
5 Eldrazi Monument
6 Caged Sun
7 Akroma's Memorial
7 Spine of Ish Sah
Enchantments (5):
3 Contamination
3 Necropotence
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Grave Pact
8 Eldrazi Conscription
0 Mutavault
0 Volrath's Stronghold
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Reliquary Tower
0 Temple of the False God
0 Swarmyard
0 Cabal Coffers
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Phyrexian Tower
0 Petrified Field
0 Vesuva
23 Swamp
The concept of the deck was to build a tribal deck strong in flavor that would be fun to play with and fun to play against. This is definitely one of my favorite decks to play with! It has good interactions with the general, the evasion he provides, token production, and stalling opponents. The basic strategy is agro, making tokens and either swarming or making them big and going in for the kill. It has a couple potential kill options with infect which I think has great flavor for this deck and I might consider exploiting further. I'm thinking it may have a little too much targeted removal, so I'm looking there first for making some cuts for some of the cards on the wishlist below.
In my effort to update this deck I've made some recent changes and have some more cards on the way that I'm considering if they warrant a spot on the list. Most recent changes:
Notable Synergies and Combos
Combos:
Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + at least 2 other rats = Infinite Rats
Once I get it... Deserted Temple + Cabal Coffers + either 2 Swamps and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or 5 Swamps + Rings of Brighthearth = Infinite Mana
Synergies:
Crypt Rats or Infected Vermin + Basilisk Collar = Deathtouch Boardwipe w/ lifegain
...add Eldrazi Monument or Akroma's Memorial = Deathtouch Boardwipe w/ life gain plus your guys don't die
Rats of Rath + Spine of Ish Sah + lots of mana (see above) = Repeatable permanent destruction (This also works with Gate to Phyrexia and something to sac to it for repeatable artifact destruction, but only if you have other creatures and only during your upkeep)
Rats of Rath + Grave Pact + Rat Tokens or other Sac Targets = Forced sacrifice of opponent's creatures to deal with hard to kill things or for board control
Lashwrithe or Nightmare Lash + Swamps + Fear = Good chance for evasive beatdowns... Add infect for value and efficiency
Breakdown of Cards by Utility and Function
Recent Cuts/Additions and Cards Under Consideration
Out:
In:
Under Consideration/Looking to Add:
I welcome all ideas, suggestions, and opinions for the deck going forward, so please don't hesitate to tell me what you think!
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
Akroma's Memorial and/or Eldrazi Monument are pretty funny with Crypt Rats.
Whip of Erebos is another way to give all your rats lifelink, which I think is very welcome due to how many cards you run that cost life.
Viscera Seer is a free sacrifice effect on a cheap body, useful for doing stupid things with Thornbite Staff and your commander. That and scry is always nice.
Filth is always a decent option if Urborg is around. It also gives you something you'd actually want to destroy with Rats of Rath.
Nightmare Lash and/or Lashwrithe are strong ways to boost an Infect/ed creature.
Not sure what you'd want to cut, but those were all my ideas.
I know Rats of Rath may seem like an odd choice, but in my meta stealing permanents is very prevalent, so the rats give me a way of depriving my opponents of taking my artifacts or creatures for their benefit and getting them into my graveyard for potential reuse. Filth has been sitting in my deck box on the side since I built this deck, and it's never found its way into the deck. That may change one day, but with the general's fear ability, the swampwalk has never seemed necessary to give up another slot.
I'm thinking that Exsanguinate is going to find a spot in here as well as a backup wincon considering all the tutors and ramp the deck runs. I know it's boring, but a wins a win, right?
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
Talrand, Sky Summoner
Darien and his Loyal Army
Marrow-Gnawer tribal rats
Elesh Norn / Sharuum / Damia - Retired
I'm still on the fence about Akroma's Memorial. I definitely want to work an Eldrazi Monument into the deck, but maybe I'll grab the Memorial too and try them both out.
Scrib Nibblers is one I've been considering for a awhile as well. It has made its way in then is back out again a few times already. It most recently lost its spot to Nezumi Bone-Reader. The Nezumi seems to have more consistent value, but I could see dropping Rats of Rath or even Skullsnatcher to put the Nibblers back in. It's always a work in progress.
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
Door of Destinies? You're already running Coat of Arms and play a large number of rats.
Murder, Hero's Downfall, Slaughter Pact, and Snuff Out are some of black's best removal spells. If you have access to them you should play them instead of another targeted removal spell.
Grave Pact for extra value with Marrow-Gnawer?
It's funny you mention running Sign in Blood over Ambition's Cost. I was just thinking about switching this deck to Sign in Blood and Read the Bones, as I feel like I always blow a whole turn on the bigger spells. I wasn't even aware of Night's Whisper, so thanks for the suggestion.
I agree on your targeted removal spells other than Slaughter Pact. I just don't like the "or you lose the game" clause. I don't have any copies of Hero's Downfall yet, but I honestly have no good reason for not running Murder and Snuff Out. Snuff Out is actually sitting in a pile of cards next to the rat deck for consideration.
Door of Destinies is an interesting suggestion. I'll have to check to see if I have a copy of it and maybe play test it a bit. What I don't like about it is it has to be out on the field for a bit to become useful and it doesn't get counters for tokens. I normally use Coat of Arms right before I attack and turn 7 1/1's into 7/7's to limit the reactions. The only time it ever really stays on the field is if my alpha strike fails or if I'm getting blown up and need bigger blockers.
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
Grave Pact is an absolute must since you are sacrificing creatures anyway. I would just pull the Pestilence for it.
I honestly took out creatures with ETB effects just to make Torpor Orb better.
You may want a reset button too. Oblivion Stone or Nevinyrral's Disk would a good addition.
Talrand, Sky Summoner
Darien and his Loyal Army
Marrow-Gnawer tribal rats
Elesh Norn / Sharuum / Damia - Retired
Do you have a reason for not using the Relentless Rats?
That and using other Rats is more fun anyway. Makes for some variance, whereas Relentless.dec plays almost the same way every time. (And Relentless.dec doesn't even want to be mono-black anyway. Sphinx of the Chimes and Bloodbond March are just too useful with them.)
I was looking through my cards last night for a spare copy of Grave Pact, but I'm going to need to order one. I completely agree with its compliment to Marrow-Gnawer, and it would even give new purpose to Rats of Rath or even a small wipe of my own tokens with Crypt Rats. I might pull Pestilence for that, but I'll have a little time to decide while I wait for Grave Pact in the mail. I also ordered a Torpor Orb, so we'll see how that plays out as well. I've got both the Stone and the Disk, but so far haven't had a reason to play them. They are basically sitting in the sideboard in case I want to swap them in.
As for Relentless Rats... What it really comes down to is that I just don't find a Relentless Rats deck very interesting. It basically turns the deck into a one trick pony, and, to me at least, it doesn't really follow the spirit of EDH. In addition to that, like stated above, a Relentless Rats deck is better suited for a multicolor deck with some combination of BUG, and preferably all three.
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
Out:
Lab Rats
Go for the Throat
Pox
Demonic Collusion
Overwhelming Forces
Liliana Vess
In:
Grim Tutor Finally got one!
Phyresis - Wanted another source of infect damage to pair with all of the evasion options in the deck.
Lashwrithe - Nightmare Lash became an allstar after I put it in the deck, so now I have two.
Akroma's Memorial - I tried to resist adding the memorial, but its too good and makes a huge impact in the deck.
Reanimate - Considering the majority of the rats have ETB's and are cheap this seems like a good inclusion. Also helps get back one of the non-rats that typically will eat removal pretty quickly.
Liliana of the Dark Realms - Vess was in for her tutoring, now that I got the Grim Tutor and with the Nightmare equips, swamps just seem better now.
For the most part these changes just added some redundancy to the deck for more consistency. I'm still having a blast playing this tribe and I'm looking forward to play testing some of the newer cards from M15. I think I'm going to see how Night Dealings does in the deck, but I'm a little skeptical. I'm thinking that having crypt rat effects and fear should get the counters up quickly on it, but some testing will be required to see if it provides the benefit I'm hoping it will. Is anyone running this in a similar build with positive results?
I've also been considering pulling Rotting Rats and replacing it with Kuro's Taken or possibly Zodiac Rat. Both abilities seem relevant as the the regeneration will survive the majority of the wrath effects including my own Crypt Wrath, but the swampwalk seems good against other black decks that stand up well against my fear abilities or even just because of Urborg. At the same time, I might add another non-rat to the deck like possibly Bloodgift Demon or maybe even add Harvester of Souls back into the deck. I liked him in here before and pulled him for my Chainer deck, but he just got pulled from there for the new Ob Nixilis, so he's a strong candidate to come back. I'm torn bewteen the two because the deck can always use more draw, and while the Demon is more consistent, the Harvester has the ability to net more, and he's clearly a rat demon.
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
In:
Out:
Still on the fence about either Kuro's Taken or Zodiac Rat. I've been making a lot of changes to this deck recently since I started playing in a more diverse meta and with a local league. The deck has been hanging with some cutthroat deck's and I feel like the extra redundancy I've been building into it has helped to provide a lot more consistency to keep it competitive. It's always a work in progress though, so any and all suggestions are always welcome.
On a side note, my plan is to start turning this thread into a primer since there isn't one already for Marrow-Gnawer. I've looked at a few builds that aren't as heavily rat tribal, and I'd like to include something in the thread about how to take the deck in a direction that would essentially make him a black version of Krenko, Mob Boss. Any lists or ideas to that effect will be most appreciated!
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
While I could potentially play the Obelisk for free, I don't know that it is really strong enough to warrant a spot in the deck. I've cut similar effects like Bad Moon and Door of Destinies that seemed great on paper but proved to be lackluster in testing. I have a decent amount of rats that make themselves bigger and Coat of Arms has proven to be the best pumper for a finishing alpha strike. Endless Obedience on the other hand, may be a powerful addition to the deck and might be a good replacement for Beacon of Unrest. I like the Beacon's ability to grab artifacts, but to grab a fattie for 2 is a huge bonus.
Reprocess... was completely unaware this was even a card. This is a fantastic suggestion and has great synergy with the sac effects and token production in the deck. At worst it's "Pay 4 and draw a couple cards", and at best it's "Pay 4, draw your deck, and win"! I'm going to have to look through my older stuff and see if I have a copy of this.
While both Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble would provide good value for the deck, I'm trying really hard to keep the identity of the rat tribal them. I actually run both of those in my other mono black deck (Army of Evil in my sig... Chainer, Demetia Master), so I'm familiar with the advantage they can provide in a sac heavy deck. One of the things I struggle with in this deck is trying to balance the theme with still being able to use some of the black staple cards that I know would make it better. The only 2 creatures in the deck that aren't rat themed are Nirkana Revenant and Crypt Ghast for mana doubling, and Harvester of Souls isn't rat themed per say, but the art fits. When I eventually rewrite this thread into a primer, I'm going to do the pure tribal version I have here as well as a more powerful version that is less themed and more streamlined for competitive play. I'd definitely consider both of those for that version of the deck.
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
Sac outlets:
Phyrexian Plaguelord: Sac out, indestructibility
Sadistic Hypnotist: Control, and saccing rats to get inside someones head has to be sadistic right?
Last Laugh in our meta this has been dubbed "Black Wrath that kills players too", very effective especially if you find yourself a little ahead in life Especially dumb with Blood Artist and Falkrenrath Noble, but we have discuess the reasons against their exclusions already
Minions' Murmurs: May put you more into a combo heavy build, but seems like its a better than like Promise of Power or something like that
Also, lastly could you abuse Carnival of Souls? Seems like its pretty dangerous and you have to win on the turn you play it, but would ramped mana give you access to any insta wins?
The interaction of Last Laugh with Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble is totally bonkers. Sadistic Hypnotist would enjoy that interaction as well. I may have to consider Last Laugth for my Chainer deck. I really like the damage potential and wrathing it can lead to by just killing something small and watching it steamroll, but at the same time I'd really need to keep an eye on my life total as that deck tends to suicide very effectively. I can see your point though... With token production and either a single sac or Crypt Rat activation, this card could make Purphoros, God of the Forge look like amateur hour.
I could see Carnival of Souls being useful towards hitting a big Exsanguinate, but other than that it doesn't have much interaction with the deck. I feel like it would be a dead draw a lot of times because I wouldn't want to be taking the lifeloss consistently for mana I might not be able to use. There aren't a ton of mana sinks in the deck that would let me take advantage of the extra mana. This is the same reason I haven't been running Black Market in the deck. The only real insta-wins in the deck would be a big Exsanguinate, infinite rats with Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + Akroma's Memorial, or a big enough play with Crypt Rats or Infected Vermin if I'm ahead on life. Akroma's Memorial or Eldrazi Monument with the Basilisk Collar make my life total irrelevant though as I can just do mutliple activations to build my life before suiciding. I've come to realize that I need to get Deserted Temple and perhaps even Vesuva and/or Thespian's Stage in here for extra copies of Cabal Cofers. Edit: And possibly Buried Ruin too.
EDH Decks:
GGG Omnath, the Sultan of Stomp GGG
BB Marrow-Gnawer... Or... Rats! Foiled again! BB
BB The Army of Evil (Necromancy for fun and profit) BB
RW Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and her Samurai Army WR
UB Vela the Night-Clad... Ninjas be Sneaky and Stuff, Yo!!!1! BU
BGU Vorash, the Hunter... Voltron Vorash' Viciously Violent Victory UGB
BBB Ghoulcaller Gisa and the Return of the Night of Living Dead Part XIII BBB
WUBRG Sliver Overlord... Because Having Friends is Completely Overrated GRBUW
XXXXX Kozilek, Butcher of Youth or This is Vintage EDH... Get Off My Damn Lawn! XXXXX
You cannot make time, you can only take time. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?
Part of me wants to shoehorn in Dimir House Guard, but as it stands currently I don't think you have enough 4 CMC cards to really tutor for effectively (also a sac outlet in a pinch). Is Night Dealings on the table, it also works with your pestilence on a stick rats.