I would probably cut Ob Nixilis, he hasn't been performing great for me. How have you been finding Daretti? The low cmc and token generation is appealing, but I really cut down on my Red-producing lands, so he might be hard to slam on curve.
In terms of Bounty of the Luxa, it just seems mediocre to me. The flipping back and forth seems unwieldy to keep track of, and it's 4cmc "do nothing" on the turn you play it, and even then it only ramps you 2 turns later. Seems really slow to me, and can easily be blown up incidentally.
I really like Skyshroud claim. Immediate impact, lands enter untapped, and it can grab up to 3 other colours with Murmuring Bosk. I think it's the quintessential ramp spell in EDH, and I would be hard pressed to cut it (outside of more competitive metas, of course).
I would keep Skyshroud Claim. It gets two ABUR untapped allowing immediate value instead of waiting a turn for the payoff. The odds of those lands getting Wasteland/Strip Mined are a lot lower than the enchantment getting removed.
I would keep Skyshroud Claim. It gets two ABUR untapped allowing immediate value instead of waiting a turn for the payoff. The odds of those lands getting Wasteland/Strip Mined are a lot lower than the enchantment getting removed.
I would probably cut Ob Nixilis, he hasn't been performing great for me. How have you been finding Daretti? The low cmc and token generation is appealing, but I really cut down on my Red-producing lands, so he might be hard to slam on curve.
In terms of Bounty of the Luxa, it just seems mediocre to me. The flipping back and forth seems unwieldy to keep track of, and it's 4cmc "do nothing" on the turn you play it, and even then it only ramps you 2 turns later. Seems really slow to me, and can easily be blown up incidentally.
I really like Skyshroud claim. Immediate impact, lands enter untapped, and it can grab up to 3 other colours with Murmuring Bosk. I think it's the quintessential ramp spell in EDH, and I would be hard pressed to cut it (outside of more competitive metas, of course).
Yeah, you guys definitely have a point.
Also, I think I'll end up dropping Ob Nixilis for Gideon. As for Daretti, I'm not too sure yet because I haven't played with him lol
How good do you think the new Bolas have to be for us to play Dark Intimations?
I was thinking it would be super cool to have a planeswalker with an insane ultimate but no "+" abilities, so you have to really work for the extra loyalty to get the reward.
How good do you think the new Bolas have to be for us to play Dark Intimations?
I was thinking it would be super cool to have a planeswalker with an insane ultimate but no "+" abilities, so you have to really work for the extra loyalty to get the reward.
ehh it's tought to say really. Like I fully expect to run the Bolas card no matter what. If the card was instant, it would surely fit in.
As it sits now, it's not bad, but it seems pretty mediocre, even with a new Bolas. I have a hard time imagining what it would take the place of. Possibly a wrath?
Anyway, I would rather not have to jump through crazy hoops like having to have a Doubling Season to get an ultimate. There are already a few ultimates that effectively win you the game, so I'm not sure how much better besides saying "You win the game." it could get. I am really excited for the new Bolas. I think ideally he costs 6 or so. With original Bolas, Karn and Ugin, fitting in another 7+ drop planeswalker will be hard.
Basically the Barrin deck ran the game, which was super controlly. While there were some points that I started to get up, some of the other players would do something that would affect my efforts going towards the Barrin deck. There's nothing that I necessarily could have done to make that game go smoother, as he casted an early Blatant Thievery and stole lands and a mana rock. Maybe an inclusion of something like City of Solitude would be good, but I'm not sure as of now.
One thing I will say I need to add is a card that is able to quickly fill my hand. Whether that be Wheel of Fortune, Timetwister (I have a Collector's Edition one, but my brother users our real one), or something similar. I'm not sure.
I'm thinking about testing without Doubling Season. It's really sort of a clunky card, especially when you don't run that many token producers. It's 5-mana, likely going to be blown up, and only interacts with planeswalker entering the battlefield. I'm thinking instead of going back up to 25 planeswalkers in the deck. Here's what I'm thinking about dropping, and then adding:
Farseek - Lots of artifact ramp and also Nature's Lore and Skyshroud. This or Nature's Lore really. Not sure which.
Academy Ruins - Brings my land count to 39 (with Tabernacle and Maze) and just don't have too many wow artifacts which leads to my next two points
Crucible of Worlds - I'm very iffy about this, and the next one, but is this card really necessary? 10 fetchlands does give it an appeal, but I'm just not sure
Rings of Brighthearth - Another superfriends staple being cut? Trav_Ragnar has lost his mind! Yeah, I don't know. Maybe not. I'm just thinkign the deck might function better in a more streamlined fashion where I'm dropping walkers and gaining value, instead of trying to have explosive plays.
Chromatic Lantern - Helps ramp and fix, but I rarely find fixing to be an issue with the 10 fetches. I think I would honestly prefer Crucible of Worlds to this.
Considering Adding: Gideon of the Trials - This will be added one way or another.
Gideon Jura - Seems good with the other Gideon ultimate to have another Gideon to grab. Also, his minus effect works very well with the two Tamiyos and Ral Zarek. His abilities are fairly relevant, also.
Ajani Unyielding - Wanted to add him, then didn't. Still unsure because of his cost. But being able to occasionally Ancestral Recall on a plus is huge.
Jace, Architect of Thought - I don't remember if this Jace was useful at all. His minus seems alright, plus seems lacklaster but could be relevant, and ultimate is game winning.
Liliana of the Veil - Been back and forth on her for awhile now. Overall I'm pretty skeptical, but even 3-mana edict is not terrible.
Doubling Season — I never was able to exploit its potential. Every time I played this card, it was countered or disrupted. My opponents fear too much that I would play a planeswalker's ultimate.
Crucible of Worlds — I'm mitigated about it. Bringing back a Strip Mine or Wasteland is nice but it is really situational. I've never thought “If only I could draw the Crucible...” so this card may not be worth this deck.
Treasured Find — Every time I had it in hand there was a good card to bring back from my graveyard. I wouldn't cut it.
Akroma's Vengeance — It saved me a few times. There are a lot of artifacts and enchantments in my meta.
Okay, so it seems like you're having similar issue with Doubling Season. It's like, when I cast it, my opponents know I'm trying to set up for something that's going to win me the game. And when I do win the game off Doubling Season, it always felt very cheap.
As for Rings of Brighthearth, I don't run anything that it combos with at the moment, and even so I avoid infinite combos in most costs. So it's nice to copy a few activation or fetchlands, but it seems a lot "win-more" then anything else.
Treasured Find + Akroma's Vengeance - Yeah, I'm going to agree. I had my reservation of getting rid of these, and your points are definitely similar to my thought process.
WHITE: Gideon of the Trials - This Gideon offers a decent amount of utility at a low cost, which is ultimately why he's being tested. His plus is going to protect both him, other planeswalkers, and yourself from obviously opponent's sources but also cards like Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb. He's not crazy good, but his low cost and fairly useful abilties warrant his inclusion, and at least his testing.
BLUE: As Foretold - This card is very interesting, and I'm curious to see it played. I feel like it could very well make its way into this deck, but maybe not, since it seems better in decks that utilize instant speed casting.
BLACK: Liliana, Death's Majesty - A little expensive, doesn't do much in this deck, and the abilities really aren't too exciting. Next.
RED: (...)
GREEN: Sandwurm Convergence - This card really fits the theme of where we want to go in terms of protecting our planeswalkers, but it's just too expensive. I would have loved if this could have cost something like 3GG and put out 1/1's instead. That way we have ground chumpers, and they can't attack in the skies. Plus this and a Moat just says creatures cannot attack you or planeswalkers you control. It's nice that the 5/5's can quickly turn around to end the game, but we don't want to win off of 5/5 tokens now, do we?
MULTICOLORED: Bounty of the Luxa - I though this card was sort of interesting, but overall it's just slow.
Nissa, Steward of Elements - As I said previously, I really wish I liked this card. I love the X ability. But since this deck runs no creatures, and scrying 2 and getting to turn two lands into 5/5's isn't really that good, she's pretty much just bad for this deck.
COLORLESS: Oracle's Vault - Sort of an interesting card really, and it hasn't been brought up by many people. With all of our top deck manipulation, these abilities would work pretty well. It'll probably be just blown up, though. NOTE: Works even better with Doubling Season and also Atraxa.
LANDS: Cascading Cataracts - Possibly worth inclusion? I'm not sure, but it's nice that it's indestructible and it can generate any colored mana, so it can filter mana from stuff like Sol Ring or when you are missing a color. It's possibly worth an inclusion.
Fetid Pools/Irrigated Farmland/Scattered Groves - I initially was excited about these, since they can be tutored or be cycled when necessary, and can easily replace Rx shocksland. But reliably having a land you can play and activate for mana is very important. So I'm skeptical of these, and will have to think about it and possibly test. Overall the fixing is fine in this deck, but at the same time, taking out a few red lands would be nice.
DECK CHANGES:
As you have seen from my last few posts, I'm really unsure about a handful of cards in this deck. I'm still thinking about it, so as for now, here is how my updates are looking:
Mana Confluence -> Reflecting Pool - So this deck has been increasing in the amount of cards that require loss of life (Phyrexian Arena, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Ancient Tomb) so we have to remove where we can. Overall I think this is a good move, because for the most part this card will be just a five colored activation. That being said, if I notice it starts to bite me in the ass, I'm going to switch it back.
Academy Ruins -> Ancient Tomb - Just another way to increase the speed of this deck. I'm sort of tired playing against people who go Land, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, etc. etc. and I'm just over here slowly ramping. Academy Ruins just doesn't have that many great targets.
Sphinx's Revelation -> Time Spiral - I realized this deck needs a way to fill its hand and go back to sling planeswalkers and controlling the board, and I've always liked this card. Think about playing this into something like a Elspeth, Sun's Champion, and having a full hand. Seems good to me.
Enlightened Tutor -> Gideon Jura - Overall more tutors is good, but three probably should be fine for now. Gideon Jura to support the Gideon of the Trials emblem, and then also for its interactions with both Tamiyos and also Ral Zarek.
I would be very hard pressed to cut supreme verdict or Merciless eviction.
Akroma's Vengeance seems pretty bad to me. We usually care about our enchantments, and I am not particularly excited about incidentally blowing up my mana rocks.
By the way, why are you cutting down on wraths? They have been exceptionally useful for me for both protecting walkers, stabilizing the board, and getting some card advantage early game. I feel like the 4-mana wraths are exceptionally useful because they put us on an even footing from which we can then start dropping 5-mana walkers or our commander.
I would be very hard pressed to cut supreme verdict or Merciless eviction.
Akroma's Vengeance seems pretty bad to me. We usually care about our enchantments, and I am not particularly excited about incidentally blowing up my mana rocks.
By the way, why are you cutting down on wraths? They have been exceptionally useful for me for both protecting walkers, stabilizing the board, and getting some card advantage early game. I feel like the 4-mana wraths are exceptionally useful because they put us on an even footing from which we can then start dropping 5-mana walkers or our commander.
Eh I'm not too sure to be honest. The deck is in a bit of a shift to be honest. Some cards I currently I'm starting to question, some cards I don't run I'm starting to question.
Right now I'm trying to fit Crucible of Worlds back in, and I took a look at my list and realized I run cards with nearly the same effect in sets of 3. For example:
Really it happened by accident, but it seemed like a good rule of thumb. At the moment I run those four, and I figured I could drop one to make room for Crucible of Worlds. That being said, I don't know if Crucible even deserves much of a spot anymore.
Like I said, this deck is in a bit of a transformation phase, and with this thread being pretty dead lately and I don't play enough to test things, it's been hard to have feedback.
I like your point about 4-mana wraths, though. I'm just not sure what others belong?
I also sort of agree on Akroma's Wrath and I think you have a good point about the enchantments we run. Which is why I really like Austere Command because you can hit most creatures and then artifacts, while avoiding blowing up our enchantments.
On a sad note, Moat, Humility, Mana Vault, Sensei's Divining Top, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Tabernacle... all just got banned out of my MTGO build of this deck.
I'm sure we'll get a renewed interest with the new Bolas!
I wish I had The Abyss and Moat. Are they irreplaceable? Are there any cards that do a good enough impression? Like Magus of the moat, etc.?
Maybe! lol I've actually been gaining back a lot of my interest in the game/format because my playgroup has. But since I kinda hadn't played for awhile, it let me take a step back and think again about a lot of stuff.
I was thinking about how I don't really want to move to Atraxa and drop red, but I didn't realize how sweet of an interaction with Doubling Season proliferate has.
As for The Abyss and Moat, it's tough to say. They're both pretty good, but I wouldn't say irreplacable. My reservations on the Magus of iterations (Magus of the Moat and Magus of the Abyss) is that they're dead cards with Humility and Lethal Vapors. Which is why I don't run creatures at all. Humility has done me so much good, and that I consider a staple, cheaper one at that.
On a sad note, Moat, Humility, Mana Vault, Sensei's Divining Top, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Tabernacle... all just got banned out of my MTGO build of this deck.
Wow didn't realize they banned Moat and Humility. Fortunately I only play paper, but I think the whole format needs to come together to rethink the ban list. I think Moat and Humility are the biggest hits, to be honest. Mainly because everyone else gets hit by the rocks and Top, and Tabernacle really isn't that crazy.
I guess I could replace with more ramp spells and go more of a stasis/smokestack plan. Idk, I'm waiting for WotC do do their normal 180 and rethink the ban list. They don't have a good track record of clearly thinking out their plans and they cave to public upproar
I guess I could replace with more ramp spells and go more of a stasis/smokestack plan. Idk, I'm waiting for WotC do do their normal 180 and rethink the ban list. They don't have a good track record of clearly thinking out their plans and they cave to public upproar
This is definitely true. It makes sense when it comes to 1v1 commander, but that's where they go wrong, is trying to cover the format in one ban list. Multiplayer and 1v1 is totally different.
I wish the Commander Committee rethought a lot of their stuff, too.
Leaning towards Ob, but I'm interested what everyoene else thinks.
In terms of Bounty of the Luxa, it just seems mediocre to me. The flipping back and forth seems unwieldy to keep track of, and it's 4cmc "do nothing" on the turn you play it, and even then it only ramps you 2 turns later. Seems really slow to me, and can easily be blown up incidentally.
I really like Skyshroud claim. Immediate impact, lands enter untapped, and it can grab up to 3 other colours with Murmuring Bosk. I think it's the quintessential ramp spell in EDH, and I would be hard pressed to cut it (outside of more competitive metas, of course).
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
Also, I think I'll end up dropping Ob Nixilis for Gideon. As for Daretti, I'm not too sure yet because I haven't played with him lol
How good do you think the new Bolas have to be for us to play Dark Intimations?
I was thinking it would be super cool to have a planeswalker with an insane ultimate but no "+" abilities, so you have to really work for the extra loyalty to get the reward.
As it sits now, it's not bad, but it seems pretty mediocre, even with a new Bolas. I have a hard time imagining what it would take the place of. Possibly a wrath?
Anyway, I would rather not have to jump through crazy hoops like having to have a Doubling Season to get an ultimate. There are already a few ultimates that effectively win you the game, so I'm not sure how much better besides saying "You win the game." it could get. I am really excited for the new Bolas. I think ideally he costs 6 or so. With original Bolas, Karn and Ugin, fitting in another 7+ drop planeswalker will be hard.
Realistically, I'm just hoping he's good enough for EDH.
Basically the Barrin deck ran the game, which was super controlly. While there were some points that I started to get up, some of the other players would do something that would affect my efforts going towards the Barrin deck. There's nothing that I necessarily could have done to make that game go smoother, as he casted an early Blatant Thievery and stole lands and a mana rock. Maybe an inclusion of something like City of Solitude would be good, but I'm not sure as of now.
One thing I will say I need to add is a card that is able to quickly fill my hand. Whether that be Wheel of Fortune, Timetwister (I have a Collector's Edition one, but my brother users our real one), or something similar. I'm not sure.
Let me know what you guys think.
Considering Dropping:
Doubling Season - For reasons above
Farseek - Lots of artifact ramp and also Nature's Lore and Skyshroud. This or Nature's Lore really. Not sure which.
Academy Ruins - Brings my land count to 39 (with Tabernacle and Maze) and just don't have too many wow artifacts which leads to my next two points
Crucible of Worlds - I'm very iffy about this, and the next one, but is this card really necessary? 10 fetchlands does give it an appeal, but I'm just not sure
Rings of Brighthearth - Another superfriends staple being cut? Trav_Ragnar has lost his mind! Yeah, I don't know. Maybe not. I'm just thinkign the deck might function better in a more streamlined fashion where I'm dropping walkers and gaining value, instead of trying to have explosive plays.
Chromatic Lantern - Helps ramp and fix, but I rarely find fixing to be an issue with the 10 fetches. I think I would honestly prefer Crucible of Worlds to this.
Treasured Find - Possibly. I always find myself enjoying the ability to "flashback" a Time Warp or get back my Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker.
Akroma's Vengeance - I rarely come across this card, to be honest. So it may be really good. Running Supreme Verdict and Austere Command, so it's a tough call.
Considering Adding:
Gideon of the Trials - This will be added one way or another.
Gideon Jura - Seems good with the other Gideon ultimate to have another Gideon to grab. Also, his minus effect works very well with the two Tamiyos and Ral Zarek. His abilities are fairly relevant, also.
Ajani Unyielding - Wanted to add him, then didn't. Still unsure because of his cost. But being able to occasionally Ancestral Recall on a plus is huge.
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets - Boring but value to be honest.
Garruk, Primal Hunter - Overall was a pretty good walker.
Jace, Architect of Thought - I don't remember if this Jace was useful at all. His minus seems alright, plus seems lacklaster but could be relevant, and ultimate is game winning.
Liliana of the Veil - Been back and forth on her for awhile now. Overall I'm pretty skeptical, but even 3-mana edict is not terrible.
As for Rings of Brighthearth, I don't run anything that it combos with at the moment, and even so I avoid infinite combos in most costs. So it's nice to copy a few activation or fetchlands, but it seems a lot "win-more" then anything else.
Treasured Find + Akroma's Vengeance - Yeah, I'm going to agree. I had my reservation of getting rid of these, and your points are definitely similar to my thought process.
WHITE:
Gideon of the Trials - This Gideon offers a decent amount of utility at a low cost, which is ultimately why he's being tested. His plus is going to protect both him, other planeswalkers, and yourself from obviously opponent's sources but also cards like Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb. He's not crazy good, but his low cost and fairly useful abilties warrant his inclusion, and at least his testing.
BLUE:
As Foretold - This card is very interesting, and I'm curious to see it played. I feel like it could very well make its way into this deck, but maybe not, since it seems better in decks that utilize instant speed casting.
BLACK:
Liliana, Death's Majesty - A little expensive, doesn't do much in this deck, and the abilities really aren't too exciting. Next.
RED:
(...)
GREEN:
Sandwurm Convergence - This card really fits the theme of where we want to go in terms of protecting our planeswalkers, but it's just too expensive. I would have loved if this could have cost something like 3GG and put out 1/1's instead. That way we have ground chumpers, and they can't attack in the skies. Plus this and a Moat just says creatures cannot attack you or planeswalkers you control. It's nice that the 5/5's can quickly turn around to end the game, but we don't want to win off of 5/5 tokens now, do we?
MULTICOLORED:
Bounty of the Luxa - I though this card was sort of interesting, but overall it's just slow.
Nissa, Steward of Elements - As I said previously, I really wish I liked this card. I love the X ability. But since this deck runs no creatures, and scrying 2 and getting to turn two lands into 5/5's isn't really that good, she's pretty much just bad for this deck.
COLORLESS:
Oracle's Vault - Sort of an interesting card really, and it hasn't been brought up by many people. With all of our top deck manipulation, these abilities would work pretty well. It'll probably be just blown up, though. NOTE: Works even better with Doubling Season and also Atraxa.
LANDS:
Cascading Cataracts - Possibly worth inclusion? I'm not sure, but it's nice that it's indestructible and it can generate any colored mana, so it can filter mana from stuff like Sol Ring or when you are missing a color. It's possibly worth an inclusion.
Fetid Pools/Irrigated Farmland/Scattered Groves - I initially was excited about these, since they can be tutored or be cycled when necessary, and can easily replace Rx shocksland. But reliably having a land you can play and activate for mana is very important. So I'm skeptical of these, and will have to think about it and possibly test. Overall the fixing is fine in this deck, but at the same time, taking out a few red lands would be nice.
DECK CHANGES:
As you have seen from my last few posts, I'm really unsure about a handful of cards in this deck. I'm still thinking about it, so as for now, here is how my updates are looking:
Mana Confluence -> Reflecting Pool - So this deck has been increasing in the amount of cards that require loss of life (Phyrexian Arena, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Ancient Tomb) so we have to remove where we can. Overall I think this is a good move, because for the most part this card will be just a five colored activation. That being said, if I notice it starts to bite me in the ass, I'm going to switch it back.
Academy Ruins -> Ancient Tomb - Just another way to increase the speed of this deck. I'm sort of tired playing against people who go Land, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, etc. etc. and I'm just over here slowly ramping. Academy Ruins just doesn't have that many great targets.
Sphinx's Revelation -> Time Spiral - I realized this deck needs a way to fill its hand and go back to sling planeswalkers and controlling the board, and I've always liked this card. Think about playing this into something like a Elspeth, Sun's Champion, and having a full hand. Seems good to me.
Crucible of Worlds -> Gideon of the Trials - Crucible has been pretty weak, but it does work well with fetches. I'm going to test without it for now.
Enlightened Tutor -> Gideon Jura - Overall more tutors is good, but three probably should be fine for now. Gideon Jura to support the Gideon of the Trials emblem, and then also for its interactions with both Tamiyos and also Ral Zarek.
Other cards I'm considering dropping:
Doubling Season, Rings of Brighthearth, Chromatic Lantern
I'm going to move to 3 wraths so I'm curious what everyone thinks I should drop: Supreme Verdict, Merciless Eviction, Akroma's Vengeance, Austere Command?
Akroma's Vengeance seems pretty bad to me. We usually care about our enchantments, and I am not particularly excited about incidentally blowing up my mana rocks.
By the way, why are you cutting down on wraths? They have been exceptionally useful for me for both protecting walkers, stabilizing the board, and getting some card advantage early game. I feel like the 4-mana wraths are exceptionally useful because they put us on an even footing from which we can then start dropping 5-mana walkers or our commander.
Right now I'm trying to fit Crucible of Worlds back in, and I took a look at my list and realized I run cards with nearly the same effect in sets of 3. For example:
Really it happened by accident, but it seemed like a good rule of thumb. At the moment I run those four, and I figured I could drop one to make room for Crucible of Worlds. That being said, I don't know if Crucible even deserves much of a spot anymore.
Like I said, this deck is in a bit of a transformation phase, and with this thread being pretty dead lately and I don't play enough to test things, it's been hard to have feedback.
I like your point about 4-mana wraths, though. I'm just not sure what others belong?
I also sort of agree on Akroma's Wrath and I think you have a good point about the enchantments we run. Which is why I really like Austere Command because you can hit most creatures and then artifacts, while avoiding blowing up our enchantments.
I wish I had The Abyss and Moat. Are they irreplaceable? Are there any cards that do a good enough impression? Like Magus of the moat, etc.?
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
I was thinking about how I don't really want to move to Atraxa and drop red, but I didn't realize how sweet of an interaction with Doubling Season proliferate has.
As for The Abyss and Moat, it's tough to say. They're both pretty good, but I wouldn't say irreplacable. My reservations on the Magus of iterations (Magus of the Moat and Magus of the Abyss) is that they're dead cards with Humility and Lethal Vapors. Which is why I don't run creatures at all. Humility has done me so much good, and that I consider a staple, cheaper one at that.
Instead, for alternatives, I would be much more inclined to run something like Ensnaring Bridge, Dueling Grounds.
EDIT: Nevermind. Read Titania's Song wrong.
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
I wish the Commander Committee rethought a lot of their stuff, too.